Dollar General Hits a Gold Mine in Rural America(bloomberg.com)
bloomberg.com
Dollar General Hits a Gold Mine in Rural America
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-10-11/dollar-general-hits-a-gold-mine-in-rural-america
319 comments
Not that it's Maine specific, but Ocean State Job Lot is a weird f-ing place, too. I actually love it, and was in there the other day opining to my wife that were the zombie apocalypse to go down, OSJL would be a solid place to hole up, if you could get some barricades in front of the big sliding glass doors.
I just bought some shampoo there for dirt cheap and when I got home realized all the copy on the bottle was in Czech ;)
I just bought some shampoo there for dirt cheap and when I got home realized all the copy on the bottle was in Czech ;)
Shh! They don't need to know about Reny's. They're finally gone until skiing starts up, except for a few hunters.
There's a Dollar General in Farmington and they always have cars in the parking lot. I've never been in there but they appear busy. There's another one over in the mall thing, across from Burger King.
Also, Big Al's. I've been in there. They have the strangest of stuff, almost. Marden's is a bit stranger.
There's a Dollar General in Farmington and they always have cars in the parking lot. I've never been in there but they appear busy. There's another one over in the mall thing, across from Burger King.
Also, Big Al's. I've been in there. They have the strangest of stuff, almost. Marden's is a bit stranger.
Haha, I never imagined I'd find somebody on HN that knew where Farmington was, except as the last vestiges of civilization before they hit Sugarloaf...
Also home to the cheapest, and best movie theater I've ever been to. Still has $4 matinees, the last time I was up to visit my folks.
Also home to the cheapest, and best movie theater I've ever been to. Still has $4 matinees, the last time I was up to visit my folks.
I know the owner of the theater. I'm up past Rangeley, in unincorporated township territory.
You're the only other Mainer I've seen on HN and I'm 'from away.' Yes, I live here by choice. I retired here.
I don't want to derail the thread or meander off topic.if you want, [email protected] will get seen and replied to.
You're the only other Mainer I've seen on HN and I'm 'from away.' Yes, I live here by choice. I retired here.
I don't want to derail the thread or meander off topic.if you want, [email protected] will get seen and replied to.
My favorite Maine tale is about the obituary of Mary, a 103 year old woman who died in a small town in Maine. She moved there when she was three weeks old and spent her entire life living in the house on the small farm that she grew up on. She went to the local school, graduated and started teaching then later got married and had a family and eventually grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Her obituary lead with "Mary, from away, ...".
I am accepted as a native but always will be from away. I can hunt, fish, twitch logs, drive a tractor, plow snow, and spit. I know the woods and roads better than most natives.
But, I'm from away.
But, I'm from away.
I'm also in the Portland area (first time I'm able to say that without having to include the state) and grew up here. Also haven't come across another HNer.
I know it's the second most rural state, but the Portland area seems urban enough to offer a variety of places to purchase food, so I don't completely understand how so many Dollar stores seem to thrive here especially with a Walmart nearby.
I've only been going up to Rangely for the past few years, and I've always wondered what type of store there was before IGA, because it doesn't seem to cater to a low income crowd like dollar stores in general.
I've never had an encounter with dang but hopefully dang won't be too harsh, this is just too special of an occasion.
I know it's the second most rural state, but the Portland area seems urban enough to offer a variety of places to purchase food, so I don't completely understand how so many Dollar stores seem to thrive here especially with a Walmart nearby.
I've only been going up to Rangely for the past few years, and I've always wondered what type of store there was before IGA, because it doesn't seem to cater to a low income crowd like dollar stores in general.
I've never had an encounter with dang but hopefully dang won't be too harsh, this is just too special of an occasion.
You live in the big city! My town name consists of a single letter and has six residencies. I'm out past Rangeley.
Rangeley has a buttload of money. There are some poor, but not many. They only have 1200 residents, or so. However, they can swell to ten times that size during tourist season. They love them some tourists.
And, yeah, this is a definite rarity. I've browsed for years, joined almost two years ago, kept lurking to get the feel if things, and just started posting a few months ago.
I have no idea what was there before the IGA. I suspect that building has always been an IGA and has been since the 60s. That's going by the architecture internally.
There are an insane number of places to eat and the community is doing something all the time. I can live anywhere in the planet, for the most part. I live here.
It's a downright Mainah convention! I'm accepted as a native, but I came here to go to boarding/prep school as a kid. Kents Hill, no apostrophe. I'm quite partial to the lifestyle and people.
I should be quieter. People will start moving here.
Funniest bumper sticker ever: Welcome to Maine; Now go Home!
Rangeley has a buttload of money. There are some poor, but not many. They only have 1200 residents, or so. However, they can swell to ten times that size during tourist season. They love them some tourists.
And, yeah, this is a definite rarity. I've browsed for years, joined almost two years ago, kept lurking to get the feel if things, and just started posting a few months ago.
I have no idea what was there before the IGA. I suspect that building has always been an IGA and has been since the 60s. That's going by the architecture internally.
There are an insane number of places to eat and the community is doing something all the time. I can live anywhere in the planet, for the most part. I live here.
It's a downright Mainah convention! I'm accepted as a native, but I came here to go to boarding/prep school as a kid. Kents Hill, no apostrophe. I'm quite partial to the lifestyle and people.
I should be quieter. People will start moving here.
Funniest bumper sticker ever: Welcome to Maine; Now go Home!
It's been an IGA as long as it's been there, I think. I think I remember it being built, or maybe expanded, but that was way back when I was a kid and my Dad was cutting wood for DC Mortons - their garage was where Boss Power Equipment is now.
I bought a substantial (obscene really) amount of land that had been owned by a paper mill. It hadn't been harvested since the 80s and it's a working forest (TSI, sustainable) now. I know how it's done, have the gear, and can log safely - I just can't do it at the speeds they do it at.
These days, there's little logging left. They still have the festivals with the demonstrations and competitions, though.
The lumber quality wood from my land goes to turning and some specialty mills - some goes down to Belgrade (Hammond). Over in Vienna, I've got a bunch of commercial blueberry fields, about 400 acres.
So, I've tried to fit in and the natives accept me as one of their own. I still call them the Village People, though.
You can tell when they've accepted you. The gossip is no longer about you - and now they tell you gossip about the new people. I moved here after selling my business and built a giant house.
The locals would come sit in my future driveway and talk about me. Sometimes, they'd spend the whole day there. So, I made it a point to hire anyone who asked. That worked wonders.
I paid people to teach me how to hunt, fish, use a chainsaw, process meat, preserve things, grow a garden, etc...
It's been VERY different than what I'd expected when I opted to move here. It's been much better, actually. It's the first place I've ever called home - which might explain my gushing about it.
These days, there's little logging left. They still have the festivals with the demonstrations and competitions, though.
The lumber quality wood from my land goes to turning and some specialty mills - some goes down to Belgrade (Hammond). Over in Vienna, I've got a bunch of commercial blueberry fields, about 400 acres.
So, I've tried to fit in and the natives accept me as one of their own. I still call them the Village People, though.
You can tell when they've accepted you. The gossip is no longer about you - and now they tell you gossip about the new people. I moved here after selling my business and built a giant house.
The locals would come sit in my future driveway and talk about me. Sometimes, they'd spend the whole day there. So, I made it a point to hire anyone who asked. That worked wonders.
I paid people to teach me how to hunt, fish, use a chainsaw, process meat, preserve things, grow a garden, etc...
It's been VERY different than what I'd expected when I opted to move here. It's been much better, actually. It's the first place I've ever called home - which might explain my gushing about it.
"Most rural", interesting. I haven't found the rank but I see VT is #1 "most rural" which I assume is % living in areas considered 'rural'. Surprising to me, as I certainly don't consider it to be a sparsely populated state-- and in fact, it's the 38th most densely populated state, between Colorado and Oregon. Fascinating.
formerly of Lisbon Falls (for HS ~15-20 years ago)!
I f*cking love Moxie.
Nobody but you will understand the significance of that comment, unless they Google.
Nobody but you will understand the significance of that comment, unless they Google.
I do. Moxie is awful though, I don't care what Ted Williams says.
You know about the Moxie Festival?!?
It's technically in Lisbon Falls, which is just down around the corner.
It's technically in Lisbon Falls, which is just down around the corner.
I grew up on the other side of Lewiston. =)
I'll be damned! It really is a Mainah convention.
I have like a dozen Moxie shirts. Man, the poor village people had to put up with me moving in. I used to drink - a lot.
But, we've come to grips with each other. It was so different than I'd expected. I do love it here. It's home. It's the only hometown I've ever had.
And it is awesome. The people crack me up. I've even got the accent figured out.
I have like a dozen Moxie shirts. Man, the poor village people had to put up with me moving in. I used to drink - a lot.
But, we've come to grips with each other. It was so different than I'd expected. I do love it here. It's home. It's the only hometown I've ever had.
And it is awesome. The people crack me up. I've even got the accent figured out.
That's an interesting way to think about it--I moved away because there's no work and I don't really ever want to own a car again. I miss parts of it. It's a nice place. (I grew up in Casco, went to high school in Naples, and one of my biggest clients right now--their lead devops guy went to my high school a decade before me!)
But as a community, it troubles me. But...it's a sand trap. I wish it were otherwise.
But as a community, it troubles me. But...it's a sand trap. I wish it were otherwise.
I'd absolutely not recommend young people move here, unless they want something just plain middle class and hard work. To live here and truly enjoy it as I do, really takes a great deal of money.
Good old Farmington, but I'm actually in the midcoast, which is a world apart from central and northern Maine.
I just noticed your comment.
It is amazing how different the regions of Maine are. I'm in NW Maine, which isn't like it is up in the county, nor the mid coast, down east, southern, central, or even western.
I'm more Jackman and less Bethel, but the village is more Bethel and less Jackman. It used to be a bit more Bethel, but the ski slope needed money to replace the lifts and they are now shut down.
So, just in this one State, it is a lot of variation.
It is amazing how different the regions of Maine are. I'm in NW Maine, which isn't like it is up in the county, nor the mid coast, down east, southern, central, or even western.
I'm more Jackman and less Bethel, but the village is more Bethel and less Jackman. It used to be a bit more Bethel, but the ski slope needed money to replace the lifts and they are now shut down.
So, just in this one State, it is a lot of variation.
$4 showings? That's unbelievable.
Narrow Gauge, in Farmington, Maine. You can also buy tickets in bulk for $4.00 and they include soda and popcorn. It's over behind the bar, near the health food store.
There's one in milbridge that has 3$ movies, and before each show an old man comes up and loads a reel into a player piano, and then you listen to some ragtime tune before the movie starts. No joke! It's famous.
I can't parse this:
"They're finally gone until skiing starts up, except for a few hunters."
I gather it has something to do with number of customers but I'm not sure how it benefits someone that a store gets FEWER shoppers.
"They're finally gone until skiing starts up, except for a few hunters."
I gather it has something to do with number of customers but I'm not sure how it benefits someone that a store gets FEWER shoppers.
Oh, it doesn't benefit the stores. It removes them from our roads and stores for a short while. During tourist season, we get up to 10x the population which is not something it's really designed for. It's pretty good money for the locals, they are well adapted to the breaks.
The foliage peepers, with tour buses and whatever, have finally gone home. Almost without fail I get a whole bus driving up my driveway because their GPS insists it is a road.
I don't mind, actually. Our local sport is making fun of tourists. We all go down to the boat landing on Memorial Day. You can watch them wreck $80,000 worth of boat, trailer, and truck. We don't get much amusement, otherwise.
If tourism stopped, the town would be dead. They milk them for all they are worth. Locals just go to Farmington where things are often about half the price.
So, no... It doesn't help the stors but it gets used to give a quick break and prepare for the winter rush. There are still tourists, but not as many. It's a tourist area, pretty much exclusively, all year long. Skiing, hunting, hiking, climbing, fishing, boating, swimming, camping, etc...
The foliage peepers, with tour buses and whatever, have finally gone home. Almost without fail I get a whole bus driving up my driveway because their GPS insists it is a road.
I don't mind, actually. Our local sport is making fun of tourists. We all go down to the boat landing on Memorial Day. You can watch them wreck $80,000 worth of boat, trailer, and truck. We don't get much amusement, otherwise.
If tourism stopped, the town would be dead. They milk them for all they are worth. Locals just go to Farmington where things are often about half the price.
So, no... It doesn't help the stors but it gets used to give a quick break and prepare for the winter rush. There are still tourists, but not as many. It's a tourist area, pretty much exclusively, all year long. Skiing, hunting, hiking, climbing, fishing, boating, swimming, camping, etc...
Oh, I see, "they" was just about tourists in general, not specific to shoppers at that store.
As a west coaster visiting New England for the first time this past summer, it really stuck me how serious the crush of tourists must be for places like small town Maine (made it as far up the coast as Acadia NP). The overwhelming number of shops, of american flags, of lobster rolls, of store advertising Yeti coolers for sale.. it was just 10x what we see in small towns in the west.
No matter where you go, of course, tourist town folk make fun of tourists but I think the crush must be much worse up your way, where small town life here, even for those of us who live in heavily populated areas, isn't quite as novel. It makes sense, though, given the massive population of the east coast. I remember once being angry about how everything is always advertised eastern-time-centric, and pulled up a map to try to make the argument that not THAT many people live in the Eastern time zone, but then realized it's almost 50% of the entire country...
http://kurtostergaard.com/us-population-by-time-zone/
As a west coaster visiting New England for the first time this past summer, it really stuck me how serious the crush of tourists must be for places like small town Maine (made it as far up the coast as Acadia NP). The overwhelming number of shops, of american flags, of lobster rolls, of store advertising Yeti coolers for sale.. it was just 10x what we see in small towns in the west.
No matter where you go, of course, tourist town folk make fun of tourists but I think the crush must be much worse up your way, where small town life here, even for those of us who live in heavily populated areas, isn't quite as novel. It makes sense, though, given the massive population of the east coast. I remember once being angry about how everything is always advertised eastern-time-centric, and pulled up a map to try to make the argument that not THAT many people live in the Eastern time zone, but then realized it's almost 50% of the entire country...
http://kurtostergaard.com/us-population-by-time-zone/
Yeah, I was responding to someone who'd know which they I meant. My bad.
I live outside of the tourist area, I'm really remote. But, the village is a tourist area. They go from 1200 to 12000 people at times.
There are camps and parks to accommodate them, hotels, and things like that. They have municipal services, which I do not have.
Also, that's the nearest village for me. It's the only group of people for miles. I suspect a dollar store would do well, actually.
I live outside of the tourist area, I'm really remote. But, the village is a tourist area. They go from 1200 to 12000 people at times.
There are camps and parks to accommodate them, hotels, and things like that. They have municipal services, which I do not have.
Also, that's the nearest village for me. It's the only group of people for miles. I suspect a dollar store would do well, actually.
For a sense of scale, roughly 5,000 live on my peninsula between the towns. The summer populations is probably about 10x that plus any weekend visitors.
It makes it really hard for restaurants to stay open during the off season, and even the Hannaford's market can't be sized right. It's a bit big for the population right now, but it feels like Black Friday on weekends during the summer.
The towns have been working to bring more off season events to even things out, but most aren't working (the one notable exception brought in 160,000ish customers in it's second 6 week run).
It makes it really hard for restaurants to stay open during the off season, and even the Hannaford's market can't be sized right. It's a bit big for the population right now, but it feels like Black Friday on weekends during the summer.
The towns have been working to bring more off season events to even things out, but most aren't working (the one notable exception brought in 160,000ish customers in it's second 6 week run).
Aren't you surprised how negatively you think of a whole class of people? Isn't this attitude the same human instinct and no less harmful than racism, sexism, etc? Tourists aren't a socially or legally protected class so you don't have to worry about publicly mocking them, but they're still a class of innocent humans.
Nope, not even remotely surprised.
It is pretty much entirely jest. Most tourists are fantastic, though they often try things they aren't experienced or equipped for. This results in them dying in new and interesting ways.
I'm on the volunteer rescue squad and go out fetching bodies, ideally still alive, on a regular basis. They get lost, try kayaking during flood season, snowmobile on thin ice - including trying to do it over open water, get drunk and use an ATV until they are impaled on a pine tree, and try to back their boats into the water - which is expensive but funny as hell to watch.
So, some of the complaints are valid. You should see them drive in the snow. Fortunately, there are usually giant snow banks so they don't get too hurt. I drive around and pull people out of the ditches, just for fun. I don't charge them, I just enjoy it.
But, yeah, they seem to appreciate the ribbing. If they have issues, we will all stop what we are doing and go out and rescue them. I've rappelled down over the falls to retrieve a kayaker. I even went back to get their kayak. We don't charge them any money, we just give them a ration of crap and tell them to take a few classes before trying that again.
Edit to add: If you're from MA, we make fun of you the most.
Edit again: I just noticed AutoCorrect hates me.
It is pretty much entirely jest. Most tourists are fantastic, though they often try things they aren't experienced or equipped for. This results in them dying in new and interesting ways.
I'm on the volunteer rescue squad and go out fetching bodies, ideally still alive, on a regular basis. They get lost, try kayaking during flood season, snowmobile on thin ice - including trying to do it over open water, get drunk and use an ATV until they are impaled on a pine tree, and try to back their boats into the water - which is expensive but funny as hell to watch.
So, some of the complaints are valid. You should see them drive in the snow. Fortunately, there are usually giant snow banks so they don't get too hurt. I drive around and pull people out of the ditches, just for fun. I don't charge them, I just enjoy it.
But, yeah, they seem to appreciate the ribbing. If they have issues, we will all stop what we are doing and go out and rescue them. I've rappelled down over the falls to retrieve a kayaker. I even went back to get their kayak. We don't charge them any money, we just give them a ration of crap and tell them to take a few classes before trying that again.
Edit to add: If you're from MA, we make fun of you the most.
Edit again: I just noticed AutoCorrect hates me.
Well, look at that. Another Mainer on a SAR team on here.
2 sympathy hikes, a couple of Baxter coverage weekends, and ringleading at the MASAR conference so far this year for business.
2 sympathy hikes, a couple of Baxter coverage weekends, and ringleading at the MASAR conference so far this year for business.
You're now making fun of people dying. That's pretty horrible. Isn't it the same as laughing at handicapped people trying to get on the bus too? They should do more training before venturing out into the real world. Isn't that the same as making fun of alcoholics and drug addicts who kill themselves with their habits? Suicide and drug overdose deaths are a joke and the people who die deserve it because they didn't bother to learn useful employable skills and ended up feeling worthless? Just because someone isn't good at evaluating risk doesn't mean they deserve ridicule for suffering all kinds of loss from their pride to their car, to their life.
Edit: I got derailed from my point. Not all tourists are what your stereotype says. Just like not all women drivers cause traffic jams and not all blacks are criminals. This is the prejudice you're showing that I think is equivalent to racism or sexism. Imagine replacing "tourist" with "black" in your thoughts to see how extreme it is.
Edit: I got derailed from my point. Not all tourists are what your stereotype says. Just like not all women drivers cause traffic jams and not all blacks are criminals. This is the prejudice you're showing that I think is equivalent to racism or sexism. Imagine replacing "tourist" with "black" in your thoughts to see how extreme it is.
Oh, we take deaths seriously. We take serious injuries seriously. We will laugh when you crush your boat, trailer, and truck because you can't follow directions.
Really, backing up a trailer is very easy if you just follow the directions. Basically, aim the truck. Put both hands on the steering wheel, at ten and two. Go backwards slowly. Look in your mirrors. If the boat is bigger in one mirror, turn that direction. Tada!
You've obviously never seen many tourists in the wild, or were one.
We take good care of them. We want them to come back. But, we live in an area where you will die a horrible and gruesome death if you don't follow directions. Yet, many fail to follow directions.
Most of their risk is pretty harmless. Our biggest rescue this year was 28 campers who somehow got completely lost on a nature hike. We had two snowmobiles in the lake, a car in the lake, a kid who drowned under the ice, and a few ATV accidents. Then there are all the smaller mishaps which require a 45 minute drive to an ER.
This might help... I live 1h 15m from a fast food joint - if the roads are clear. You will die here - really. They do it all the time. They do it because they don't follow directions.
Now, if you read my reply again, you'll note that they aren't the majority. The majority still screw up traffic, scare the animals, feed the bears, and generally get drunk and smash into stuff. Not too long ago, a nice lady tried to pet a bull moose in rutting season. She spent a while in the hospital but she lived.
When I risk my life to come save you from a situation you stupidly put yourself into, and then I laugh at you, you can be pissed or grateful. That is up to you. I find they are usually embarrassed and grateful.
By the way, is this response you're giving what the trendy kids are calling 'virtue signaling?' If it helps, you're gonna change my mind exactly zero. I'm not even remotely concerned that it is unethical. If you want to avoid it, don't make us have to clean up after you. You're full of nasty bits that are hard to clean off.
Really, backing up a trailer is very easy if you just follow the directions. Basically, aim the truck. Put both hands on the steering wheel, at ten and two. Go backwards slowly. Look in your mirrors. If the boat is bigger in one mirror, turn that direction. Tada!
You've obviously never seen many tourists in the wild, or were one.
We take good care of them. We want them to come back. But, we live in an area where you will die a horrible and gruesome death if you don't follow directions. Yet, many fail to follow directions.
Most of their risk is pretty harmless. Our biggest rescue this year was 28 campers who somehow got completely lost on a nature hike. We had two snowmobiles in the lake, a car in the lake, a kid who drowned under the ice, and a few ATV accidents. Then there are all the smaller mishaps which require a 45 minute drive to an ER.
This might help... I live 1h 15m from a fast food joint - if the roads are clear. You will die here - really. They do it all the time. They do it because they don't follow directions.
Now, if you read my reply again, you'll note that they aren't the majority. The majority still screw up traffic, scare the animals, feed the bears, and generally get drunk and smash into stuff. Not too long ago, a nice lady tried to pet a bull moose in rutting season. She spent a while in the hospital but she lived.
When I risk my life to come save you from a situation you stupidly put yourself into, and then I laugh at you, you can be pissed or grateful. That is up to you. I find they are usually embarrassed and grateful.
By the way, is this response you're giving what the trendy kids are calling 'virtue signaling?' If it helps, you're gonna change my mind exactly zero. I'm not even remotely concerned that it is unethical. If you want to avoid it, don't make us have to clean up after you. You're full of nasty bits that are hard to clean off.
Here in Austria (no not the one with kangaroos, that's Australia ;-) We frequently have tourists that require to be rescued in our mountainous areas (which is kind of hard because tourism is so well developed) because they think that going hiking in the Alps is the same as going for a stroll in the park.
Climbing a mountain in flip-flops is not sane!
So I know exactly what you are talking about.
So I know exactly what you are talking about.
In Australia (where the snakes are far less friendly than they are in Austria), Austrian and German tourists often have to be rescued from remote areas, beaches, deserts etc. for precisely the same reason: they thought they could do it in flip-flops.
(Disclaimer: am Australian, living in Austria, and if I hear that stupid joke one more time I'm gonna start throwing snakes at people. The friendly kind, y'know .. Austrians.)
(Disclaimer: am Australian, living in Austria, and if I hear that stupid joke one more time I'm gonna start throwing snakes at people. The friendly kind, y'know .. Austrians.)
Yeah, as I mentioned above, I own a lot of land. It is all open for public use, except a small portion around my house. I finally had signs made up and an extra phone line installed so that people can call and leave a message saying when and where they went in and when they will be back out.
So far, none have died on my property but two have died really close to it. Some snowmobile and ATV injuries have happened. A bunch have gotten lost.
I'm always amused when someone has a cell phone and still gets lost. They will point out that they had no cell service. I've figured out how to open the mapping application on all the devices so that I can show them.
We give away trail maps. They are free. We have plenty, take two. Hell, if you want, I'll even show you how to do most of the activities safely. I have all the gear, just ask.
But no... They think watching Mission Imposeible means they are experirienced rock climbers.
You should see them hunt. Firearms and tourists are sometimes a bad mix. That usually kills a few people.
So far, none have died on my property but two have died really close to it. Some snowmobile and ATV injuries have happened. A bunch have gotten lost.
I'm always amused when someone has a cell phone and still gets lost. They will point out that they had no cell service. I've figured out how to open the mapping application on all the devices so that I can show them.
We give away trail maps. They are free. We have plenty, take two. Hell, if you want, I'll even show you how to do most of the activities safely. I have all the gear, just ask.
But no... They think watching Mission Imposeible means they are experirienced rock climbers.
You should see them hunt. Firearms and tourists are sometimes a bad mix. That usually kills a few people.
My concern is that most of society seems to have accepted that popular "isms" are bad, but only the officially designated ones. Then they're free to be as offensive as they like to any other groups of people. You're able to publicly say the things you did without causing any outrage. Yet if you do the same about protected classes, it's socially unacceptable. This shows that followers of the culture don't actually have concern for people being insulted, they just pretend to be concerned when they know everyone will agree with them. That's virtue signalling which I see as hypocritical.
I understand that you help people when they have problems. I don't think that makes is OK to insult them though. It's easy to be frustrated when people repeatedly don't do what you tell them, and feel smugness when they suffer the consequences. To pull out another analogy, we don't mock victims of industrial accidents for failing to follow the safety rules 100% of the time, despite being told those rules. Instead, we look for ways to make it harder to suffer the accidents.
Don't forget that just about every problem that people suffer is somehow due to their own actions. Life's full of rules you're supposed to follow but nobody can reliable follow them all the time, and if you did, you'd surely not get far or have much fun. People everywhere still crash their cars, turn up to work late, get preventable diseases, etc. I think it's offensive to blame them for their suffering.
I understand that you help people when they have problems. I don't think that makes is OK to insult them though. It's easy to be frustrated when people repeatedly don't do what you tell them, and feel smugness when they suffer the consequences. To pull out another analogy, we don't mock victims of industrial accidents for failing to follow the safety rules 100% of the time, despite being told those rules. Instead, we look for ways to make it harder to suffer the accidents.
Don't forget that just about every problem that people suffer is somehow due to their own actions. Life's full of rules you're supposed to follow but nobody can reliable follow them all the time, and if you did, you'd surely not get far or have much fun. People everywhere still crash their cars, turn up to work late, get preventable diseases, etc. I think it's offensive to blame them for their suffering.
You'll get over it.
I hope not. This arbitrary distinction between people you're allowed to laugh at and people you're not is just assholes pretending to be nice people by following the popular culture. You're not doing that, but you can see here on this thread someone complaining that I wasn't supportive enough of the suffering of alcoholics. Who would have guessed they had to be respected but adventure tourists didn't?
Anyway, don't reply because I think you're just here to release your frustrations without understanding things. You've used brags and personal insults which show that you want to engage in an argument but you don't have anything constructive to say.
Anyway, don't reply because I think you're just here to release your frustrations without understanding things. You've used brags and personal insults which show that you want to engage in an argument but you don't have anything constructive to say.
I think there might be a cultural difference here. Where are you from? I have maritime family and my uncle has been awarded his village's "Biggest Asshole" award multiple times. With a trophy and everything. He's a potato farmer who listens to classical music and reads poetry while on the machinery. He's got a laugh that lights up a room and is wonderful family man with strong values. He's deeply committed to his community in a spiritual sort of belonging way. He farms the family homestead like 7 generations of Welsh goofballs before him.
Maybe another way to look at it is ask, what is the alternative to having a laugh at the tourists? I can't comprehend one.
Calling each other out for riffing on tourist blunders because they are part of a pseudo-disabled population or something? I'm honestly finding it impossible to imagine a different way for it all to play out.
Maybe another way to look at it is ask, what is the alternative to having a laugh at the tourists? I can't comprehend one.
Calling each other out for riffing on tourist blunders because they are part of a pseudo-disabled population or something? I'm honestly finding it impossible to imagine a different way for it all to play out.
> handicapped people, alcoholics, drug addicts, and suicidal people
Not even a remotely fair comparison. The vast majority of those groups are affected by negative (horrible) external circumstances: physical or mental conditions, histories of trauma, and awful circumstances are incredibly common among those groups.
Tourists are embarking upon something for enjoyment while of sound mind and (sometimes) body. Ridicule is one of many important ways to help correct (and, as someone helping, cope with) the damage these folks do to themselves and others. It might not be the best way, but it's a far cry from making fun of someone for being on the wrong end of circumstance.
Seriously. You just compared tourists to alcoholics and suicidal people. You're either accidentally supporting GP's point or you should be ashamed of yourself, or both.
Not even a remotely fair comparison. The vast majority of those groups are affected by negative (horrible) external circumstances: physical or mental conditions, histories of trauma, and awful circumstances are incredibly common among those groups.
Tourists are embarking upon something for enjoyment while of sound mind and (sometimes) body. Ridicule is one of many important ways to help correct (and, as someone helping, cope with) the damage these folks do to themselves and others. It might not be the best way, but it's a far cry from making fun of someone for being on the wrong end of circumstance.
Seriously. You just compared tourists to alcoholics and suicidal people. You're either accidentally supporting GP's point or you should be ashamed of yourself, or both.
I think alcoholics do drink to make themselves feel better. Yes, I'm comparing them.
Grocery Outlet is a grocery store variant that is in the SF Bay Area. It is one of the stores I miss after relocating away.
There are also dollar generals in the area -- maybe not in the bay area proper, but in the same kinds of areas I see Grocery Outlet -- Eg, central valley and foothills of the Sierra.
Not just the Bay Area; they're all over the West Coast + Nevada and Idaho (and also in Pennsylvania for some reason).
If Steven Spielberg had to make a cheesy commercial with an unlimited budget -- he couldn't come close to making such a master piece.
Renys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMNCjsz9ob8
Renys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMNCjsz9ob8
Mardens is awesome. It's like a cross between Ocean State Job lot and a government surplus auction with some furniture and home goods thrown in. I love when they have hardware by the pound. Last time I was there they had copper fittings at ~double scrap price. They also had nuts and bolts that looked like they were on the container that got dropped in the harbor but still well worth the price.
Good to see we have some mainers on HN! I'm from Ellsworth, now living in Portland. My family's been in the state for several generations, I'm descended from backwoods poachers and liquor runners, so I get to say I'm not from away..
Wow, the Maine accent in that Marden's commercial is thick enough to spread on a slice of bread.
Shoulda bought it when I saw it at mardens!
> “You rascals!” Tharp remembers telling the executive who called to deliver the news. “You come to these small towns, and you build these stores, and you cause all the mom and pops to close down, and now you’re the only ones left standing, and you want to go home? Why would you do that to our community?”
"Rascals." I'm not sure I'd be so polite, if I were mayor. The cycle that Bob describes is practically rote tradition by this point, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating or audaciously malicious.
"Rascals." I'm not sure I'd be so polite, if I were mayor. The cycle that Bob describes is practically rote tradition by this point, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating or audaciously malicious.
> I'm not sure I'd be so polite, if I were mayor.
He was that polite because all the shops closed down before Walmart got there. The article glosses over the timeline (since it doesn't fit the narrative), but that's how it seemed to me reading between the lines.
The heyday of this place was 100 years ago, by 1962 there was only 1 store left - it has not gotten better since then.
As best as I can tell the Walmart opened at the location of the closed "Decatur Discount", they did not cause it (or the other stores) to close.
He was that polite because all the shops closed down before Walmart got there. The article glosses over the timeline (since it doesn't fit the narrative), but that's how it seemed to me reading between the lines.
The heyday of this place was 100 years ago, by 1962 there was only 1 store left - it has not gotten better since then.
As best as I can tell the Walmart opened at the location of the closed "Decatur Discount", they did not cause it (or the other stores) to close.
I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but the town has seen linear(albeit slow) consistent growth from 1900 to today, and has seen most of it's growth within the last 30 years.
TFA itself refers to the fact that like every other agricultural community in the central and mountain timezones, the portion of the community outside city limits (i.e. most of it) has been shrinking since 1900. Don't imagine that finding town populations on wiki is some sort of revelation.
I didn't understand why he said that at all- from the article "For the first time in a decade, the 1,788 residents could buy groceries in town." So it sounds like there weren't any mom and pop shops for Walmart to "cause" to close down.
I'm sure there are other kinds of stores wal-mart could push out though.
Sure and they all pay even lower wages than Walmart and employ few people.
I grew up in one of these types of locations. There was absolutely nothing glorious about the Mom & Pop stores that employed few people, paid crap wages and offered zero benefits at all (because they all made little money, couldn't afford to purchase in volume (margins), and were always drifting on the edge of going out of business).
Since Walmart showed up there, wages are up over 50% in ~20 years. Walmart absorbed all the perpetual under-employment in the low skill pool, along with teenagers and retired elderly. It helped set a base income for the entire population by altering the local economy.
I grew up in one of these types of locations. There was absolutely nothing glorious about the Mom & Pop stores that employed few people, paid crap wages and offered zero benefits at all (because they all made little money, couldn't afford to purchase in volume (margins), and were always drifting on the edge of going out of business).
Since Walmart showed up there, wages are up over 50% in ~20 years. Walmart absorbed all the perpetual under-employment in the low skill pool, along with teenagers and retired elderly. It helped set a base income for the entire population by altering the local economy.
> audaciously malicious
malicious: characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm
I worked in the WMT home office for 12 years.
I can assure you that it's not malice. It's much worse.
During the glory days of growth in the early 2000s, where we were opening a new store (minimum 150,000 square feet, usually much later), on average, every day, the feeling was nothing more or nothing less than complete apathy toward the dollar stores.
WalMart, back then, cared as much about dollar stores as most people care about some ants running across their sidewalk.
Though, as we now see, that was a short-sighted perspective, since WMT, while still enormous, is seeing its growth slowing rapidly.
malicious: characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm
I worked in the WMT home office for 12 years.
I can assure you that it's not malice. It's much worse.
During the glory days of growth in the early 2000s, where we were opening a new store (minimum 150,000 square feet, usually much later), on average, every day, the feeling was nothing more or nothing less than complete apathy toward the dollar stores.
WalMart, back then, cared as much about dollar stores as most people care about some ants running across their sidewalk.
Though, as we now see, that was a short-sighted perspective, since WMT, while still enormous, is seeing its growth slowing rapidly.
Apathy isn't worse than malice.
Two Dollar General stores separated by a mile popped up in my hometown in northern California, a place that can barely support two of any stores even grocery stores. Dollar General stores are expensive and nearly always empty. When I lived in the south eight years ago, Dollar General stores were expensive and empty too. I would not be surprised at some point if the economics of their expansion didn't make sense.
As someone else mentioned, Dollar Tree is different. There is a Dollar Tree that is always packed next to an empty Dollar General in my hometown. Dollar Tree is a deep discount store. Dollar General is a convenience store without gas.
As someone else mentioned, Dollar Tree is different. There is a Dollar Tree that is always packed next to an empty Dollar General in my hometown. Dollar Tree is a deep discount store. Dollar General is a convenience store without gas.
Dollar General is like Krispy Kreme was year ago. They are in hyper growth building stores everywhere. Stores like what you describe get lost in the growth.
If the company is successful, it will know that and it will purge the lousy stores. Otherwise, they’ll implode when the interest rates go up and they can’t borrow money anymore.
If the company is successful, it will know that and it will purge the lousy stores. Otherwise, they’ll implode when the interest rates go up and they can’t borrow money anymore.
Interest rates are the last thing Dollar General needs to worry about at this point.
$1.2 billion in profit on $22 billion in sales. They have $2.6 billion in long-term debt, paying ~$100m in annual interest on their total debt.
They could afford a 15% interest rate on their debt.
With their income, they have no need to borrow to build out stores. Their dividend is modest, so that's also no concern vs their need to spend to build.
$1.2 billion in profit on $22 billion in sales. They have $2.6 billion in long-term debt, paying ~$100m in annual interest on their total debt.
They could afford a 15% interest rate on their debt.
With their income, they have no need to borrow to build out stores. Their dividend is modest, so that's also no concern vs their need to spend to build.
Dollar General is a refinement of Ray Kroc’s McDonalds model for passive investors. Their magic is net leasing in shitty areas with barebones stores, so they don’t hold many obligations on their balance sheet, and don’t spend a lot on building upkeep and taxes. It is basically a ground lease and a bond alternative.
That works because it’s an investment that lets passive investors yield 5-7%, which is a good yield from a company with a good credit rating.
As rates rise, it gets less and less attractive, especially as leases start maturing, growth slows, and you need to put capital dollars into cheap buildings that you don’t own. It’s not a bad company, but it’s no Walmart.
That works because it’s an investment that lets passive investors yield 5-7%, which is a good yield from a company with a good credit rating.
As rates rise, it gets less and less attractive, especially as leases start maturing, growth slows, and you need to put capital dollars into cheap buildings that you don’t own. It’s not a bad company, but it’s no Walmart.
Earlier this year on vacation in Florida I recalled seeing a Dollar General right behind a Dollar Tree in Haines City. The Dollar General is closed and property for sale. The Dollar Tree was open. Both are across the street from Walmart.
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.1248173,-81.6377691,3a,87.1y...
To see Walmart turn 180 degrees.
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.1248173,-81.6377691,3a,87.1y...
To see Walmart turn 180 degrees.
Dollar General is a real estate holding company.
If it could only be as successful as McDonald's in that pursuit.
There are 2 just a couple of miles apart in Pine Grove, CA, too. Very small foothills community. Odd.
Dollar General has amazing logistics end-to-end, possibly better than Walmart. Clearly the difference is enough to make them profitable, if barely, in circumstances Walmart isn't.
What's new information for me is that DG can make things work in tiny towns that only support a single store. A lot of what I've read about their strengths in the past had to do with how well they manage multiple stores in one city.
What's new information for me is that DG can make things work in tiny towns that only support a single store. A lot of what I've read about their strengths in the past had to do with how well they manage multiple stores in one city.
Another strength is that the stores just simply aren't that big. I've been to Wal-Marts in rural parts of the lower Midwest that are simply too huge for the population density. Somehow they manage to stay open, but I am never entirely sure how. DG, on the other hand, tends to be half to a third of the size and does very well on the basis that they pretty much only sell stuff that people are actually gonna need on a regular basis. Combine that with the logistics you mentioned, and it's bound to be able to at least sustain itself.
Wal-Mart has tended to understaff its stores. Results are dirtier, messier, more crime-friendly stores. They've off-loaded their security/loss prevention expenses on to local police departments: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-walmart-crime/
I guess since the land is cheap and they built the building they operate out the operating cost isn't much higher like it would be were they renting space in a developed urban area. Plus it is like they are investing in the real estate as I've seen a few small towns grow a lot in population after Walmart moved in.
Plus, incredibly terrible local TV commercials
Renys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMNCjsz9ob8
Marden's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ_iM2jrLGU