A Cruise Ship Called “The World” Is a Luxury Home at Sea for the Super Rich(skift.com)
skift.com
A Cruise Ship Called “The World” Is a Luxury Home at Sea for the Super Rich
https://skift.com/2017/12/09/a-cruise-ship-called-the-world-is-a-luxury-home-at-sea-for-the-super-rich/amp/
69 comments
I actually expected it to be more expensive, at least up-front.
There are $2m condos near where I live, so consider something like a $45m lifetime cost (if you buy in at 60, stay until you're 90, and somehow never recover that sale price), and that's only a single order of magnitude difference. That's way less than I had expected for something in such short supply.
There are $2m condos near where I live, so consider something like a $45m lifetime cost (if you buy in at 60, stay until you're 90, and somehow never recover that sale price), and that's only a single order of magnitude difference. That's way less than I had expected for something in such short supply.
Think of it like an upscale mobile home. The home itself loses value, and you pay rent.
A condo with $1m/yr maintenance ?
I wonder what advantages The World has over lines like Seabourn[0] or Silversea?[1] I can't imagine it being cheaper with the upfront costs. Besides the higher exclusivity and more consistent guests, I suppose. Then again, it looks like the ship averages ~1/3 occupancy [2] which would be a huge plus.
[0] https://www.seabourn.com/ [1] https://www.silversea.com/en.html [2] http://aboardtheworld.com/sites/default/files/TheWorld-FAQ.p...
[0] https://www.seabourn.com/ [1] https://www.silversea.com/en.html [2] http://aboardtheworld.com/sites/default/files/TheWorld-FAQ.p...
> I wonder what advantages The World has over lines like Seabourn[0] or Silversea?[1]
Well, for a resident, you eliminate the cognitive load of changing residences. Your home on the ship is literally a home (albeit a heavily-regulated one, in the style of extreme HOAs), and you can treat it like one, rather than having to slice everything into several-week increments because you might have to leave or change cabins at short notice.
Of course, this comes with tremendous maintenance prices ($1m+ per residence per year), but for some people it's worth that.
Well, for a resident, you eliminate the cognitive load of changing residences. Your home on the ship is literally a home (albeit a heavily-regulated one, in the style of extreme HOAs), and you can treat it like one, rather than having to slice everything into several-week increments because you might have to leave or change cabins at short notice.
Of course, this comes with tremendous maintenance prices ($1m+ per residence per year), but for some people it's worth that.
> ($1m+ per residence per year)
probably cheaper than maintaining an equivalently sized yacht, and without needing to hire someone competent to maintain your staff, etc.
probably cheaper than maintaining an equivalently sized yacht, and without needing to hire someone competent to maintain your staff, etc.
A yacht with movie theater, gym, swimming pool etc costs about $25m. People who can spend that kind of money can also spend $1m or so on staff who will take care of you and the thing. When you have that kind of luxury vessel, it's also not hard to get famous artists and other intellectuals join onboard with you on vacation to exotic places (you are probably already friends with them). So ultimately its of little pragmatic value to have apartment on cruise ship vs having your own private yacht. But here's the thing, when your net worth is even just few billions dollars, you are likely making $100K or so every hour of your life. So why not have both?
Reminded me of Jules Verne's Propeller Island, a city on a massive ship in the Pacific Ocean, inhabited entirely by millionaires.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propeller_Island
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propeller_Island
Ann Rand, sea steading.. same ideas
Seasteading is an entirely different idea about making it possible for people, any people, to live in communities on the water. Rich people were not associated with the idea until Theil blew a bunch of money on a particular effort which didn't go anywhere. Being able to cast things in political terms isn't correct or an advantage.
The emissions per capita of that thing must be huge.
Hopefully in a couple of decades such energetic excesses will be condemned by humanity.
Hopefully in a couple of decades such energetic excesses will be condemned by humanity.
I think we should be fine with it if there's more than enough taxes on emissions.
And there should be luxury taxes too. The super-rich get this shit on discount (20% capital gains in the U.S.?), while most of us have to pay upwards of 40% extra for doing salaried work. It's not right.
And there should be luxury taxes too. The super-rich get this shit on discount (20% capital gains in the U.S.?), while most of us have to pay upwards of 40% extra for doing salaried work. It's not right.
Even Marxists want playboys to buy Lamborghinis, because then the rich have less money. The real answer to what you're calling for would be to match capital gains with income taxes, although I'm sure that would have its own raft of unexpected effects. (For example, what would happen to middle-class retirement plans?)
Also: emissions taxes are sometimes regressive, for example consider that home prices usually go up with shorter commutes.
Since the most universal benefit of having money is getting the first pick of all the options, you'll quickly find that "those rich people" are incredibly hard to pin down with tax plans. Whatever you make the worst asset class will quickly end up in the hands of whoever can't afford better.
Also: emissions taxes are sometimes regressive, for example consider that home prices usually go up with shorter commutes.
Since the most universal benefit of having money is getting the first pick of all the options, you'll quickly find that "those rich people" are incredibly hard to pin down with tax plans. Whatever you make the worst asset class will quickly end up in the hands of whoever can't afford better.
> (For example, what would happen to middle-class retirement plans?)
I agree with most of what you said (I'm sure there will be unintended consequences). However that specific consequence...
The middle class has largely no retirement savings at all (median savings for even 50+ yr old household is about one year's income). To the extent that the middle class has retirement savings, it falls way, way, way under the pretax tax advantaged account limits for 401k, IRA, etc. Capital gains tax on retirement savings is a problem only for the upper upper middle class who can afford to stock away more than like 20k/yr into retirement.
I agree with most of what you said (I'm sure there will be unintended consequences). However that specific consequence...
The middle class has largely no retirement savings at all (median savings for even 50+ yr old household is about one year's income). To the extent that the middle class has retirement savings, it falls way, way, way under the pretax tax advantaged account limits for 401k, IRA, etc. Capital gains tax on retirement savings is a problem only for the upper upper middle class who can afford to stock away more than like 20k/yr into retirement.
Well we shouldn't give up on reining in profiteers and tax-evaders. It's the good fight. Oh and re: middle class retirement plans, the more the gains the more the tax.
agreed! Capital gains tax should be the same as income tax! Why is it that a secretary pays more taxes (percentage-wise) than his/her boss?
Anyone know how feasible it would be to run this on solar power in the near future?
Not really, it wouldn't even be feasible to replace the on-board electric with solar, ignoring propulsion. Using the information from here[1] it has five generators. One generator produces 4308kVA, and one of these [2] solar panels produces 0.296 kVA. So ~15,000 solar panels to replace one (of five) generator.
1 http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/world/
2 https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1977425/astronergy/solar-pane...
1 http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/world/
2 https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1977425/astronergy/solar-pane...
Thanks for the info. Hopefully future breakthroughs can change this math substantially.
They can't, these solar panels are probably not much more than 20% efficient, so even an extra factor of five doesn't make a dent.
In a couple of decades, it will likely be too late.
The cynic in me wonders what shifty benefits patrons could get from effectively owning their own little mobile legal patch of whatever country is the flag-of-convenience. (In this case, it seems to be the Bahamas.)
Tax advantages from non-dom status, I'm guessing. And getting to be with the other ghetto kids.
Given the average age of the residents, it's probably mostly things like "everything in the shipboard pharmacy is extremely cheap compared to the US".
Why not just buy a large boat, if you have $15MM to spend on a place to live? I liveaboard an (obviously) much smaller boat, and I love the life. Obviously life on my boat is very different vs a $15MM boat, but I think that life on this cruise ship would be quite similar to a $15MM ship of your choosing.
I guess the main thing is the networking aspect and having neighbors, but that doesn't seem like it'd be worth the premium.
Anyone else on HN a liveaboard, or interested in it? My email's in my profile.
I guess the main thing is the networking aspect and having neighbors, but that doesn't seem like it'd be worth the premium.
Anyone else on HN a liveaboard, or interested in it? My email's in my profile.
Cognitive overhead. You have to deal with maintenance, logistics, staffing, planning, design etc yourself. Yes you get exactly what you want but it would likely be a bunch of work whereas this sounds fairly turnkey with everything planned out for you.
At the higher levels apparently you pay $900k a year for annual maintenance fees. That could cover the full-time salaries of several people to do all those things for you.
But not the pain in the ass of managing them, or managing the manager if you hire one.
Does Shuji Nakamura give lectures on your boat?
But can you take said boat to Antarctica?
Anthony Bourdain wrote a short piece about a stay on this ship. Interesting enough read!
Potentially a nifty tax dodge from a residence perspective for non-Americans.
I recall reading about this in the early 2000s
Seems like a plot device for the next Diehard movie - international terrorists hijack a cruise ship full of billionaires, and only Bruce Willis can save them.
I could see that working with Bond. McClane is too much of an everyman to care about boatfull of billionaires in distress. Family would have to somehow end up on board.
Bond, on the other hand, is all about protecting the interests of (a subset of) the rich and powerful.
Bond, on the other hand, is all about protecting the interests of (a subset of) the rich and powerful.
Got to be careful - you'd want the terrorists to look like villains and for John McClane to be fighting for the right side.
They’ve already made /Titanic/
Not sure if anyone else was confused, but the cruise ship is called "The World".
Supreme tax avoidance. Great for newly minted bitcoin heirs.
What an incredible waste.
There would be a lot of jobs created in support an operation like this.
Outside of charity what else are these people going to do with their money? If they are already 60 there isn't much point investing it for the future unless it is about the next generation.
The less wasteful way would have been to have taxation laws that prevented them accumulating that level of wealth to begin with.
Outside of charity what else are these people going to do with their money? If they are already 60 there isn't much point investing it for the future unless it is about the next generation.
The less wasteful way would have been to have taxation laws that prevented them accumulating that level of wealth to begin with.
Tell that to the business that runs the ship.
Why?
A significant amount of the population of the world lives in poverty and destitution, while arguably working just as hard or even more than these millionaires. I can see it definitely seems like a waste, in the grand context of things.
Just to put things in perspective, a lot of the world that lives in poverty would also see the lifestyle of the top 10% (household income around $160K) to be extravagant and wasteful.
Yes, anyone with values and priorities different from our own look wasteful.
I bought a new car recently and when someone saw it, they said "what? you couldn't buy a used one? What a waste!"
Since it was a 2013 with ~60k miles on it and just very well maintained, their statement said more about them than me.
I bought a new car recently and when someone saw it, they said "what? you couldn't buy a used one? What a waste!"
Since it was a 2013 with ~60k miles on it and just very well maintained, their statement said more about them than me.
Do you think that you could similarly justify The World?
Why should they? I don't walk around "justifying" my lifestyle choices to people who make less than I do.
Maybe you should be forced to, if only for laughs.
surely less impactful than the collective trash heap generated by coastal technocrats replacing their phones every year
Less impactful than a lot of things, still an obscene waste.
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not surprised the subjects of the story are in their 70s...seems like a huge bore unless one's notion of a good life is reams of idle time surrounded by fawning servants
[0]: http://aboardtheworld.com/sites/default/files/Residence-1001...