In Japan, there's an industry devoted to cleaning up after people who died alone(washingtonpost.com)
washingtonpost.com
In Japan, there's an industry devoted to cleaning up after people who died alone
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2018/01/24/feature/so-many-japanese-people-die-alone-theres-a-whole-industry-devoted-to-cleaning-up-after-them/?utm_term=.6e543bc7e6d4
55 comments
Glad you posted this. I found the article from November to be quite moving. As someone who knows precious little about Japanese culture, it surprises me that someone would die alone - and then sit alone for a long time before discovery. I had always heard Japan was a very collectivist society. Does that play into this?
My opinion as a Westerner who has spent a lot of time in Japan: as in any crowded place, a key coping skill is the ability to ignore people who are in close proximity to you. When you’re riding on a train with people crammed up against every square inch of your body, you kind of zone out, avoid eye contact, and definitely don’t strike up a conversation. I get the strong sense that people who are alone can go though life with very few meaningful interactions, even with neighbors who live only a few centimeters away (note that the apartment in the story is 200 square feet, I’d bet that a lot of American homes have bathrooms bigger than that).
Being collectivist means not taking up unnecessary psychic space in the lives of others.
Being collectivist means not taking up unnecessary psychic space in the lives of others.
A collectivist society doesn't necessarily mean a supportive community. Part of being part of a collective means trying not to cause problems for the whole, even if it means some self-sacrifice on your part.
The nail that sticks out gets hammered down. Burdens also get left behind.
The nail that sticks out gets hammered down. Burdens also get left behind.
Reminds me of this documentary about Sweden. 50% of Swedes live alone, and 25% die alone. Often it takes a long time for someone to notice, as pensions come in to the account automatically, and the rent is also paid automatically.
https://www.svtplay.se/video/10458343/the-swedish-theory-of-...
https://www.svtplay.se/video/10458343/the-swedish-theory-of-...
This is why my mother sends me an email every morning. Sometimes she just says hey, but most other times she includes other info about her life or asks me questions. Her reasoning was that because she had a cat (at the time), she didn't want to become cat food should she died suddenly.
Off Topic:
This is why my mother sends me an email every morning.
Should be the other way around. Parents watched us every hour when growing up, as adults we should be the ones checking on them constantly.
In the West I rarely hear people who talk about their parents with great love and care. Instead I see parents praising their children all day long. These kids grow up feeling like a prize and they do not develop enough appreciation for the hard work it took their parents.
Growing up in Africa it felt like, as a child, you owed everything to your parents and they did you a favor taking care of you. While extreme, in the long run people take care of their parents and you will not hear of older people being alone let alone die alone.
This is why my mother sends me an email every morning.
Should be the other way around. Parents watched us every hour when growing up, as adults we should be the ones checking on them constantly.
In the West I rarely hear people who talk about their parents with great love and care. Instead I see parents praising their children all day long. These kids grow up feeling like a prize and they do not develop enough appreciation for the hard work it took their parents.
Growing up in Africa it felt like, as a child, you owed everything to your parents and they did you a favor taking care of you. While extreme, in the long run people take care of their parents and you will not hear of older people being alone let alone die alone.
It doesn't really matter if mom initiates the email exchange or child does. The important detail is daily communication from the elderly parent confirming they are alive and functional. If child sends email, the elderly parent still needs to reply or you have no mechanism to check if they are okay.
The point was not about the mechanism, but caring.
in the long run people take care of their parents and you will not hear of older people being alone let alone die alone.
You are assuming these people have children at all - that's becoming less true every year.
Also, you should consider that people sometimes prefer to be alone. My grandmother now lives with my mother, but that was only after she fell at home at 85 years old, because before she preferred to live by herself. Had she died in that fall, she would have died alone too, but not because her children didn't want to take care of her.
You are assuming these people have children at all - that's becoming less true every year.
Also, you should consider that people sometimes prefer to be alone. My grandmother now lives with my mother, but that was only after she fell at home at 85 years old, because before she preferred to live by herself. Had she died in that fall, she would have died alone too, but not because her children didn't want to take care of her.
Though my opinion may be extreme, I only think of family as a group of people/dear friends who I've grown up around, and parents as caretakers. Yes, I do own them for taking care of me (which I know was a pain), but they are also the ones who chose to do so, without my consent. Should I be grateful to people who force their values on me? I think not. At least, not so much as for them to completely rely on me when they're unfit for society.
I don't know reading this comments make me feel offended. I guess that's a problem with myself. But I can't help thinking if our parents didn't take care of us without our consent and waited for getting consent from us about whether we should be taken care of or not, would we be there to give them or not to give them consent?
in the West, children are delegated to third parties (often strangers, not family)
Several government programs act as a poor substitute for family support.
Lack of incentive, lack of community and an emphasis on individualism creates people like that.
Several government programs act as a poor substitute for family support.
Lack of incentive, lack of community and an emphasis on individualism creates people like that.
> she didn't want to become cat food should she died suddenly.
I had a great-great aunt who lived alone and hoarded cats and dogs (and many other non-living things). She was partially eaten when they finally found her. My grandparents eventually moved in to that property, and now my parents have it as a second property.
Every time I visit, I still get a little shudder when I think about what it must have been like to stumble upon that scene (a weeks dead, partially eaten corpse surrounded by dozens of hungry cats and dogs...) - I'm not sure which neighbor discovered her, but that poor person...
[Edit: fortunately, my parents didn't tell me the story until I was 18, I had visited my grandparents at that property every summer for most of my childhood. I imagine if they had told me earlier, my trips to the basement of that 19th century house would have been a bit more frightening]
I had a great-great aunt who lived alone and hoarded cats and dogs (and many other non-living things). She was partially eaten when they finally found her. My grandparents eventually moved in to that property, and now my parents have it as a second property.
Every time I visit, I still get a little shudder when I think about what it must have been like to stumble upon that scene (a weeks dead, partially eaten corpse surrounded by dozens of hungry cats and dogs...) - I'm not sure which neighbor discovered her, but that poor person...
[Edit: fortunately, my parents didn't tell me the story until I was 18, I had visited my grandparents at that property every summer for most of my childhood. I imagine if they had told me earlier, my trips to the basement of that 19th century house would have been a bit more frightening]
I’ve heard similar stories and seen it mentioned on cop show. It must be pretty common.
What about a device like the emergency buttons for elderly but it checks vitals? It could update loved ones daily. I bet you could use an Apple Watch.
What about a device like the emergency buttons for elderly but it checks vitals? It could update loved ones daily. I bet you could use an Apple Watch.
I really hope I don’t have to worry about it for another 10-20 years
I hope anyone reading this realizes that there will be a time in life when you should call your mother and / or call your father, once a week at least.
And not only parents either. I call my grandparents once a week, mainly because their weeks are filled with trips to the store or doctors appointments. But I've grown a lot closer to them and have learned a lot from their experiences and stories.
My grandfather loves talking about cars and he enjoys his weekly phone call. He can't wait to tell me all about new technologies he reads about. He tells me how his car is doing and asks how my car handles. He has 5 grandchildren and I believe that I am the only one who calls every week.
My grandfather loves talking about cars and he enjoys his weekly phone call. He can't wait to tell me all about new technologies he reads about. He tells me how his car is doing and asks how my car handles. He has 5 grandchildren and I believe that I am the only one who calls every week.
For me, that time is life is "always".
And not just to check that they aren't dead :)
Was that the entirety of the apartment in photos, minus the bathroom? Even by New York standards, that's pretty tiny.
From first-hand experience, Japanese apartments can be very tiny and pack a lot in a small space. Something like ~20 m^2 / 250 ft^2 range.
E.g. see photos here: https://apartments.gaijinpot.com/en/rent/view/216237 (about $1,100 USD/mo)
E.g. see photos here: https://apartments.gaijinpot.com/en/rent/view/216237 (about $1,100 USD/mo)
Have you been in a Japanese hotel room? It’s a bed, plus about a few square feet of access pathway into the bed.
>bed
How fancy, must be a Western-style room. In a Japanese-style room you get nothing but a mattress.
How fancy, must be a Western-style room. In a Japanese-style room you get nothing but a mattress.
Have _you_?
I’ve stayed in both ‘international’ hotels that cater to foreigners and in business hotels which explicitly discourage foreigners by having literally everything in Japanese and they’ve all had fairly standard sized rooms for a hotel.
I’ve stayed in both ‘international’ hotels that cater to foreigners and in business hotels which explicitly discourage foreigners by having literally everything in Japanese and they’ve all had fairly standard sized rooms for a hotel.
When I visited, I stayed in a business hotel in Ikebukuro, a ryokan near Chidorichou station, a youth hostel in Kyoto, and a hotsprings hotel in Hakone.
The business hotel's room was tiny (as described by the person your replied to). The ryokan's rooms were a very nice size. The hostel's were tiny (either 4.5 or 6 tatami?), but the bathrooms were down the hall, at least. The hotel in Hakone had decently-sized rooms, but not as large as the ryokan. I don't remember them being any more cramped than when I've visited cities in Europe, anyhow.
The business hotel's room was tiny (as described by the person your replied to). The ryokan's rooms were a very nice size. The hostel's were tiny (either 4.5 or 6 tatami?), but the bathrooms were down the hall, at least. The hotel in Hakone had decently-sized rooms, but not as large as the ryokan. I don't remember them being any more cramped than when I've visited cities in Europe, anyhow.
To the parent's point, the one's in your description seem to all to fall on the expensive side, either for rich-ish foreigners or rich-ish Japanese.
They weren't and I can't possibly fathom how you got that from the description.
From the part that mentions that they are "international hotels that cater to foreigners" -- so not some local cockroach hotel for junkies and poor people (not to mention the fact that they need to have enough money to travel to an expensive country like Japan in the first place -- 2/3rds of the world couldn't even afford the tickets with a year's salary).
And from the other part that mentions "business hotels" and especially ones that "explicitly discourage foreigners". Except if those are the rare kind of business hotels for poor destitute businessmen.
And from the other part that mentions "business hotels" and especially ones that "explicitly discourage foreigners". Except if those are the rare kind of business hotels for poor destitute businessmen.
I think maybe we have a mismatch of cultural expectations. When I traveled in America I saw a lot of those junkie hotels - they're simply not really even thought of as viable hotels in my country. When you drive America you see America is poor.
An actual example from two of the categories I've actually stayed in.
ANA Crowne Plaza Okayama - $116AU a night. Not shockingly cheap, but cheap nonetheless.
PRINCE something something, in Osaka. 6000JPY a night on a public holiday.
No matter your definition of cheap, they're not 'expensive' hotels.
An actual example from two of the categories I've actually stayed in.
ANA Crowne Plaza Okayama - $116AU a night. Not shockingly cheap, but cheap nonetheless.
PRINCE something something, in Osaka. 6000JPY a night on a public holiday.
No matter your definition of cheap, they're not 'expensive' hotels.
Indeed. Keep in mind that many (most) people living in these apartments use futons - mattresses that can be folded and put away once you’re done sleeping.
This is more about hospitals and less about solitary apartments, but there's a program in the US called No One Dies Alone: http://www.how-we-die.org/howwedie/story?sid=8. I'm really glad there are people like that.
"""Fujita and his team had carted away all his belongings, ripped off the wallpaper, checked under flooring, and scrubbed and disinfected the apartment from top to bottom. They left a deodorizing machine to run inside the apartment for a few days."""
Anybody have any idea what sort of device this `deodorizing machine` would be? I'm very curious what sort of technology could pull off such a feat.
Anybody have any idea what sort of device this `deodorizing machine` would be? I'm very curious what sort of technology could pull off such a feat.
Probably either an ozone generator or something that sucks air through a carbon filter.
Aha, that must be what's on the box in that last image
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://w...
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Is a decent solution to encourage pet ownership (dog or cat) among the single elderly? Not only can they help alleviate feelings of loneliness while you're alive but they could theoretically be trained to get help if you fall or if you eventually pass away.
Good idea. This way, even if you die alone, you can know that you will still be providing a useful service to your pet even after you are gone, as food for it!
Considering the few other comments about pets eating their dead owners, this plan about getting help if you die needs a bit of thought. Would you train your pet to use the phone? Could it leave your house whenever it wanted? How will you train it to get help? By playing dead a lot?
I'm in favor of pets as companionship, but an emergency button around your neck seems like a better way to get help with the exception of dieing in your sleep.
I'm in favor of pets as companionship, but an emergency button around your neck seems like a better way to get help with the exception of dieing in your sleep.
> It was almost as if Hiroaki had never existed.
Bullshit. When I die, if all that is remembered of me are the things in my apartment, then it doesn't really matter if I was alone at the time or who cleans it up.
I'm willing to bet he made a lasting impression on somebody. Friends, coworkers, etc. If not, then having kids or someone living with him wouldn't have mattered.
I definitely get the feeling the message of this article is "make sure you have kids so you don't die alone and forgotten", which is stupid for several reasons.
Bullshit. When I die, if all that is remembered of me are the things in my apartment, then it doesn't really matter if I was alone at the time or who cleans it up.
I'm willing to bet he made a lasting impression on somebody. Friends, coworkers, etc. If not, then having kids or someone living with him wouldn't have mattered.
I definitely get the feeling the message of this article is "make sure you have kids so you don't die alone and forgotten", which is stupid for several reasons.
> I'm willing to bet he made a lasting impression on somebody. Friends, coworkers, etc.
Apparently not enough of an impression to carry on the friendship, though, right?
I think the point of the article is that Japanese society has traditionally been very dependent on family and work for all of your social bonding, with much less emphasis on maintaining relationships outside of those two spheres.
If he did have kids, they would likely check up on him more than once a month. It's not guaranteed, of course, but Japanese culture does seem to put more of a weight on that than American culture.
The point of this article isn't "this is how it should be or suffer the consequences", it's "this is how it is, and this is one of the consequences".
Apparently not enough of an impression to carry on the friendship, though, right?
I think the point of the article is that Japanese society has traditionally been very dependent on family and work for all of your social bonding, with much less emphasis on maintaining relationships outside of those two spheres.
If he did have kids, they would likely check up on him more than once a month. It's not guaranteed, of course, but Japanese culture does seem to put more of a weight on that than American culture.
The point of this article isn't "this is how it should be or suffer the consequences", it's "this is how it is, and this is one of the consequences".
I was struck by this part "They retire from lifetime jobs and lose the only communities they’ve ever really had." I've long recognized that deep friendships are those that transcend the circumstances which brought two individuals into proximity to take a liking to each other in the first place. A friendship that is limited to the circumstances that unite people I call "circumstantial friendships".
It's possible relatives live in the countryside and this person outlived geographically close friends and coworkers.
Sign me up!
Isn’t there one in America also ? Is the market significantly smaller in America ?
in American it's target is people who will die alone and the objective is cleaning up financially.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderl...
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderl...
That's one of the most disturbing stories I've read in a while. It's unbelievable, felt like I was reading science fiction. I wonder if there are ways to protect oneself in old age from being a victim of that...
Don't live in one of the states with those type of guardianship laws. Probably need to elect a President that will choose a responsible steward for the HHS so that we can actually collect data on what is happening now and act upon it to reform this situation.
https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-17-33
It truly is. I wonder if we're being told the whole story though: some woman shows up at another person's door with no connection at all, but has a signed court order as their guardians? It is mentioned that the couple's daughter visited almost every day. She couldn't find a lawyer to immediately file an injunction?
EDIT: Yeah, looks like the authorities stepped in[0].
[0] https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/grand-jury-indicts-nevad...
EDIT: Yeah, looks like the authorities stepped in[0].
[0] https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/grand-jury-indicts-nevad...
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The main people in that story were a couple that lived independently and had a daughter that lived 10 minutes away who visited almost every day. That's insane that the guardianship happened.
Terrifying. My grandparents live under my brother's care and I became physically agitated reading this, thinking about how vulnerable they are and how easily this could have happened. They lived right around the corner from the couple in this story until a few years ago.
Is this a big government thing that violates individual freedom? I wonder how people handle this successfully and avoid abuses. Which states are better? Former Singapore prime minister Lee Kuan Yew often mentioned Asian family values. I used to think it’s a joke, but am starting to like it.
This is horrifying.
Lots of specialty clean-up firms in USA could clean up such a scene. They also do indoor firearm suicides and motel room meth labs, which are probably less common in Japan than here.
"A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death"
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/world/asia/japan-lonely-d...
Discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15822064