Twinge of Saudade: Biographies of Abba(lrb.co.uk)
lrb.co.uk
Twinge of Saudade: Biographies of Abba
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v46/n24/chal-ravens/twinge-of-saudade
24 comments
> saudade as a sort of deep longing to be back with a loved one in person
Brazilian here. Not only a person, it can be a place, a thing, a scent, a moment and so on. It's kind of a nostalgia, but it doesn't need to be exactly related to a distant time. For example, if you are traveling you can feel saudade of your home the moment in the first day. You may also feel saudade when you listen to a song that you used to listen in a good moment of your life.
Nowadays everyone knows that it's a word that only exists in Portuguese (and in Galician, which is really close to Portuguese), but it was really shocking for me and other people that almost no other language has a similar word. Perhaps it is one of the most used words for describing a feeling here, it's like not having a word for "love", "anger" or "envy".
Other unique thing in Portuguese is that we have two verbs for the verb "to be": "ser" and "estar". "Ser" is when something always "is" and "estar" is for something that "is" at this moment. For example: if you translate "she is beautiful" as "ser" you expect that she is beautiful everyday, in all situations, while if you translate as "estar" is because she is looking good at this moment (perhaps she is wearing a nice dress, or recently has her hair cut, etc). Only having this in Portuguese was also shocking to me, as that distinction is natural for us.
Brazilian here. Not only a person, it can be a place, a thing, a scent, a moment and so on. It's kind of a nostalgia, but it doesn't need to be exactly related to a distant time. For example, if you are traveling you can feel saudade of your home the moment in the first day. You may also feel saudade when you listen to a song that you used to listen in a good moment of your life.
Nowadays everyone knows that it's a word that only exists in Portuguese (and in Galician, which is really close to Portuguese), but it was really shocking for me and other people that almost no other language has a similar word. Perhaps it is one of the most used words for describing a feeling here, it's like not having a word for "love", "anger" or "envy".
Other unique thing in Portuguese is that we have two verbs for the verb "to be": "ser" and "estar". "Ser" is when something always "is" and "estar" is for something that "is" at this moment. For example: if you translate "she is beautiful" as "ser" you expect that she is beautiful everyday, in all situations, while if you translate as "estar" is because she is looking good at this moment (perhaps she is wearing a nice dress, or recently has her hair cut, etc). Only having this in Portuguese was also shocking to me, as that distinction is natural for us.
Ser/estar in Spanish as well.
Brazilian here. I honestly don’t get the idea of the pretense uniqueness of the term “saudade”. Sure there is not an equivalent noun in English, but, to me, the verb “to miss” someone or some place conveys precisely the same feeling.
> the verb “to miss” someone or some place conveys precisely the same feeling
It's not a perfect translation, as you can "miss a call", "miss a good opportunity", etc and it doesn't mean that you are feeling saudade of it. But this case would be almost ok, just like we don't have a single word, for example, for the verb "to handle", which is a word that has almost the same idea in several contexts but we need a different word for each one ("lidar", "manipular", "mexer", "operar", "cuidar", "tratar", ...)
However, "to miss" is a verb and would be a translation for "sentir saudade". There's still no precise word for the noun "saudade", the feeling itself. Perhaps the closest one is "nostalgia", but it's still not exactly the same as nostalgia has this sense of something that happened in a distant past, and it is more related to the past itself than a person, a thing, etc. Even in Portuguese we have the word "nostalgia", but no one says "estou sentido nostalgia de você", we say "estou sentindo saudade de você". And we can feel saudade of something that happened yesterday, but not nostalgia.
It's not a perfect translation, as you can "miss a call", "miss a good opportunity", etc and it doesn't mean that you are feeling saudade of it. But this case would be almost ok, just like we don't have a single word, for example, for the verb "to handle", which is a word that has almost the same idea in several contexts but we need a different word for each one ("lidar", "manipular", "mexer", "operar", "cuidar", "tratar", ...)
However, "to miss" is a verb and would be a translation for "sentir saudade". There's still no precise word for the noun "saudade", the feeling itself. Perhaps the closest one is "nostalgia", but it's still not exactly the same as nostalgia has this sense of something that happened in a distant past, and it is more related to the past itself than a person, a thing, etc. Even in Portuguese we have the word "nostalgia", but no one says "estou sentido nostalgia de você", we say "estou sentindo saudade de você". And we can feel saudade of something that happened yesterday, but not nostalgia.
How often do you use the standalone noun out of context though?
Every real world usage of the term I can think of has it in the verbal form: "sentir saudade", "estar com saudade", "dar saudade", "a saudade é grande". Even in the sentence "Saudade" the verb is implied.
In all those cases it can be accurately translated as "to miss".
Every real world usage of the term I can think of has it in the verbal form: "sentir saudade", "estar com saudade", "dar saudade", "a saudade é grande". Even in the sentence "Saudade" the verb is implied.
In all those cases it can be accurately translated as "to miss".
> How often do you use the standalone noun out of context though?
The same frequency as any other noun of feeling, like happiness, sadness, hate, etc. Saying "to miss" may imply that one is feeling that emotion but doesn't have a name to it, like having the emotion but not having the word that describes it.
Even though there are some ways to describe that idea it needs an extra effort, so it's not well defined as in Portuguese. Imagine not having a word for "responsibility", "power", "partnership" or other abstract concept: you can define them through subordinate clauses but it will not define that concepts (that's why have words).
And just for fun: if Inside Out was made in Brazil I can see clearly that Saudade would be a character (and a major one, the saudade of home is what leads to the climax), but it can't exist because it wouldn't have a word for that. In the second movie we have Nostalgia, but it's a minor character which wouldn't do what happened in the first movie (thus, we can see the difference)
The same frequency as any other noun of feeling, like happiness, sadness, hate, etc. Saying "to miss" may imply that one is feeling that emotion but doesn't have a name to it, like having the emotion but not having the word that describes it.
Even though there are some ways to describe that idea it needs an extra effort, so it's not well defined as in Portuguese. Imagine not having a word for "responsibility", "power", "partnership" or other abstract concept: you can define them through subordinate clauses but it will not define that concepts (that's why have words).
And just for fun: if Inside Out was made in Brazil I can see clearly that Saudade would be a character (and a major one, the saudade of home is what leads to the climax), but it can't exist because it wouldn't have a word for that. In the second movie we have Nostalgia, but it's a minor character which wouldn't do what happened in the first movie (thus, we can see the difference)
Another Brazilian here: I'm pretty sure "yearning" is that equivalent noun.
I think you're right that it's 'hygge'-like. Saudade is a common Portuguese word, and (as far as I know) not limited to loving people, but also open to wider nostalgia. It apparently stems from solitatem (solitude). That it would apply to ABBA's music seems to me the result of the artistic-intellectual tendency to re-interpret everything in the opposite direction.
"Hygge" - portuguese living in Denmark - is not related to "saudade". "Saudade" is as stated by others deep longing with a touch of depression and enjoying that. "Hygge" is something you do to have a good time - with yourself or others.
When I mentioned "hygge" I did not mean to imply that they have the same meaning. I was referring to the fact that "hygge" has entered mainstream English culture, to the point where a lot of English speakers know what it means. I was wondering whether "saudade" now has a similar level of mainstream awareness.
It's quite big in European Portuguese and has always been, it's not a Brazilian thing.
Deep longing is close, but it's more nuanced, and it doesn't have to be longing for someone, it can be someplace or activity, it also involves a kind of active recollection where you try to relive stuff in your memory, and there's an element of hope that you will experience whatever it is you miss again.
Deep longing is close, but it's more nuanced, and it doesn't have to be longing for someone, it can be someplace or activity, it also involves a kind of active recollection where you try to relive stuff in your memory, and there's an element of hope that you will experience whatever it is you miss again.
The Portuguese entry into the Eurovision song contest in 2022 was a beautiful song called "Saudade" by Maro. It rightly won the contest, and that's how my wife and I know the term (we still sing the chorus around the house sometimes). So it's unexpectedly popular in various European countries.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=eQul-rkcGPQ
https://youtube.com/watch?v=eQul-rkcGPQ
how do you mean "it won the contest"?
Ah I was wrong! I thought it won Eurovision but it actually came ninth. Of course, that was the year Ukraine won from the public vote due to solidarity after Russia's invasion.
thanks for your answer, in retrospect i always tend to believe my favorite song won ;)
i really liked Moldova in 2022! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGNT5Uh-WKw
i really liked Moldova in 2022! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGNT5Uh-WKw
Yes, I even remember wondering whether they got under-voted because of links with Russia :/
It was the Portuguese entry in the Eurovision song contest, so it won the Portuguese contest.
As someone who grew up during this era, I find some of the nostalgic preferences of today's culture to be amusing and nearly random.
In addition to ABBA, others that come to mind are Queen and Bob Ross. Not that there's anything wrong with these people, but if you were to go back in time and ask around, I think the overall response would be "why them in particular?"
Queen, for example, had a few great songs, but Supertramp overall was better band with a similar musical aesthetic. I have no idea why Queen is now considered one of the greatest acts of all time, while Supertramp is more or less forgotten.
ABBA had a bunch of lite rock/pop hits, but to see them talked about seriously in The London Review of Books in 2025 is downright hilarious to me.
In addition to ABBA, others that come to mind are Queen and Bob Ross. Not that there's anything wrong with these people, but if you were to go back in time and ask around, I think the overall response would be "why them in particular?"
Queen, for example, had a few great songs, but Supertramp overall was better band with a similar musical aesthetic. I have no idea why Queen is now considered one of the greatest acts of all time, while Supertramp is more or less forgotten.
ABBA had a bunch of lite rock/pop hits, but to see them talked about seriously in The London Review of Books in 2025 is downright hilarious to me.
Are you American perhaps?
Supertramp were bigger in the US than the UK/Australia (for example) where Queen were a much more popular group.
Similarly, ABBA were a phenomenon that rivalled Beatlemania in Australia (although I think a touch less so in the UK) where the US largely ignored them in period.
Supertramp were bigger in the US than the UK/Australia (for example) where Queen were a much more popular group.
Similarly, ABBA were a phenomenon that rivalled Beatlemania in Australia (although I think a touch less so in the UK) where the US largely ignored them in period.
Yes, I’m American. That’s an interesting point. Thanks.
> a Sweden then known to outsiders chiefly for Ingmar Bergman,
Arrgh, the flashbacks. Sometimes I regret the extinction of European movie studios, but then there are these examples of ponderous depressing twaddle ...
Arrgh, the flashbacks. Sometimes I regret the extinction of European movie studios, but then there are these examples of ponderous depressing twaddle ...
> Yet no constituency hated Abba more than their own countryfolk, whose cultural elites were repelled by their success – anathema to the Swedish model, which prized fairness and hated commercialism. Abba were the thin end of the wedge: empty-headed stooges for capitalism, imperialist collaborators writing ditties in dumbed-down English. Naturally, they got their big break by winning a competition. I wasn’t born in 1974, the year Abba won Eurovision, but I can instantly call to mind the royal blue sequins, the tightly tucked velvet, an orchestral conductor in a Napoleon hat. Britain’s judges awarded nul points on the night, but the country took Abba to heart at once. ‘Waterloo’, a shrink-wrapped glam-pop symphony made for colour TV, shot to number one.
I'm watching Rock'N'Roll Jeopardy some 20 years ago with my sister.
"When we come back from these commercial breaks, we have Final Jeopardy, with a question about international rock stars."
I say: "Who is ABBA?"
They come back some minutes later, and the announcer starts in with "In 1974, they won Eurovision..."
I'm cheering; my sister rolls her eyes. I have been doing victory laps since.
I'm watching Rock'N'Roll Jeopardy some 20 years ago with my sister.
"When we come back from these commercial breaks, we have Final Jeopardy, with a question about international rock stars."
I say: "Who is ABBA?"
They come back some minutes later, and the announcer starts in with "In 1974, they won Eurovision..."
I'm cheering; my sister rolls her eyes. I have been doing victory laps since.
Brazilians (my wife included) describe saudade as a sort of deep longing to be back with a loved one in person. Not sure if it's used in all Portuguese-speaking places or just Brazil (or where the term originated for that matter). The translation honestly seems straightforward enough but often when you ask someone to translate, they get that "on the tip of the tongue" look on their face and say English doesn't really have the right words for it.