Show HN: Consol – Desktop First Productivity with End-to-End Encryption(consol.io)
consol.io
Show HN: Consol – Desktop First Productivity with End-to-End Encryption
https://www.consol.io
66 comments
> You acknowledge that if you encrypt an item after you create and add content to it, there may be a period of time in which your item’s body content is not encrypted while being stored in our database
So.... the data goes across the wire in clear-text, and is encrypted later? Ummm, sorry, no.
First off, I'm not interested in anything that stores data that I might want to encrypt "in the cloud". It goes on my own server. Full. Stop. And sending data across the wire in the clear and encrypting later? ? I mean.... ???
So.... the data goes across the wire in clear-text, and is encrypted later? Ummm, sorry, no.
First off, I'm not interested in anything that stores data that I might want to encrypt "in the cloud". It goes on my own server. Full. Stop. And sending data across the wire in the clear and encrypting later? ? I mean.... ???
> And sending data across the wire in the clear and encrypting later
As I understand it, the app uses SSL, so data is always sent over a (presumed) safe transport. I do agree that in order to meaningfully differentiate from the Google/Microsoft/Dropbox/OtherCloudFirm CanHasAllYourDataPlease-model encryption needs to happen 1) on the client 2) by default 3) For everything (including meta-data like filenames 4) should probably not be possible to turn off
Either way, I find it interesting that someone is trying to do at least some things right. It'll never be secure as a hosted solution (presumably they can (be ordered to)) backdoor the client at any time - see Lavabit) -- so I'm not sure I see the point (secure, but not actually secure?). Maybe release it under AGPL and offer a hosted version in order to a) have the client(s) be open and b) offer a solution to those that want to make the trade-off?
It would still be miles better than storing data with a provider that openly says they datamine everything.
As I understand it, the app uses SSL, so data is always sent over a (presumed) safe transport. I do agree that in order to meaningfully differentiate from the Google/Microsoft/Dropbox/OtherCloudFirm CanHasAllYourDataPlease-model encryption needs to happen 1) on the client 2) by default 3) For everything (including meta-data like filenames 4) should probably not be possible to turn off
Either way, I find it interesting that someone is trying to do at least some things right. It'll never be secure as a hosted solution (presumably they can (be ordered to)) backdoor the client at any time - see Lavabit) -- so I'm not sure I see the point (secure, but not actually secure?). Maybe release it under AGPL and offer a hosted version in order to a) have the client(s) be open and b) offer a solution to those that want to make the trade-off?
It would still be miles better than storing data with a provider that openly says they datamine everything.
My reading of it is that it probably has an autosave feature so if I begin typing "This is my super secret password: hunter2" and then click encrypt it may have already sent the content over the wire before I hit the encrypt button.
But that is just my reading of it, maybe the dev can correct me.
But that is just my reading of it, maybe the dev can correct me.
Yes, that will happen. Click "Crypto" first, then if you type content in the item, it will be encrypted from the get-go. We're working on changing this so you don't have to manually enable "Crypto" first.
This is our initial implementation and we know it's limited. Enable encryption on an item FIRST, before you add content. From then on, any data you add to that item will be encrypted by your browser before transfer. The cloud server is not encrypting the data.
You may know it is limited but the video literally says "End-to-end encryption." That's more than misleading.
Make no mistake, it is end-to-end encryption. The browser encrypts and decrypts the data, not the cloud. The version we're developing will not require the user to have to enable anything beforehand.
Well... I loved the video. It actually doesn't have to show what it's actually for... you just have to make people interested enough so they will give it a try and then make sure that they learn about all the great new stuff as they use it.
But again, you are going to hear all type of comments, positive or negative, just try to not take all of them for granted. Keep doing your stuff based on your guts and metrics. Good luck.
Really appreciate this. Building this is has been challenging.
We're bootstrapped.
The primary reason I started Consol was because I wanted to use it. One day at work I finally had it with existing tools and I started designing what had been in my head for a long time. Soon after I recruited my brothers.
Many of you will immediately notice some missing features, such as the ability to import/export data. Take a look at our first blog post for some insight on what's missing and what's in the pipeline.
Thanks in advance for your positive and constructive feedback.
I'm definitely intrigued. We've used everything under the sun and always end up falling back to Asana (we're a small design agency).
Looking forward to trying this out!
Edit: You guys might want to be a bit more clear that you're requiring a credit card to signup for beta access, even if you're not charging for 30 days.
Looking forward to trying this out!
Edit: You guys might want to be a bit more clear that you're requiring a credit card to signup for beta access, even if you're not charging for 30 days.
Thanks for your feedback. The current flow allows me to see who's interested in the product, but may not be interested in paying. If the price was front and center from the get-go, I wouldn't have ever known of numerous users who showed interest.
> If the price was front and center from the get-go, I wouldn't have ever known of numerous users who showed interest.
On the other hand, hiding the price also drives away people (like me) who feel tricked by that practice.
On the other hand, hiding the price also drives away people (like me) who feel tricked by that practice.
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The truth is that I also felt tricked by this approach. I thought that the service was free until I gave you my email. Not nice, guys. Even being tricked this way, I'm still considering the idea to pay, but $9 might be too much for the use I'd give the product. Not sure...
On the other hand, I'd really encourage you to implement the export data feature. I do not commit to any cloud service if I cannot get my data back if the business closes (unlikely with big companies, more likely with startups :).
On the other hand, I'd really encourage you to implement the export data feature. I do not commit to any cloud service if I cannot get my data back if the business closes (unlikely with big companies, more likely with startups :).
Pricing page is live now. We were definitely not trying to be tricky. The goal was to see who was interested in the product, but not willing to pay for a subscription. Nevertheless, the feedback was clear that we needed to show pricing. Thanks for your interest. Import/Export data is in the top 3 items of our roadmap. It's in the works.
If you could offer even a shorter period of trial without needs of credit card information up front, I would have been happier.
I'm not inclined to put in my credit card number up front for the service that I'm not even sure right for me or not...
I'm not inclined to put in my credit card number up front for the service that I'm not even sure right for me or not...
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Why Consol over say something like Quip?
The caveats surrounding E2E capabilities as listed fweespeech are concerning. Security should be enabled out the box if that's a key selling point.
The caveats surrounding E2E capabilities as listed fweespeech are concerning. Security should be enabled out the box if that's a key selling point.
The video is really hard to follow. Memes and electronica don't really show what it's actually good for.
The actual app looks really cluttered (with multiple left hand panes for navigation). The "beautiful" statement seems more directed at the rainbow UI, which seems more distracting than anything else.
The actual app looks really cluttered (with multiple left hand panes for navigation). The "beautiful" statement seems more directed at the rainbow UI, which seems more distracting than anything else.
Kind of frustrating that there was no mention of the pricing until AFTER users enter all their information to request an "invite".
And since I'm not making an account now, I can't delete my submitted information. Should I expect newsletters or spam now?
And since I'm not making an account now, I can't delete my submitted information. Should I expect newsletters or spam now?
Yes, you will, unfortunately.
And I hate companies that take this insane approach.
And I hate companies that take this insane approach.
Sorry, not trying to be insane. Pricing page went up.
We put up a pricing page. Send [email protected] and email and I'll remove all trace of your email address.
Sounds like a very cool concept. Few things I noticed:
- (not a native speaker) but the english-text in the video seems weird: „much tools“, „very hassle“.
- the landing page is too bloated in my eyes (colors, text), really hard to get a quick grasp of what it is about
Good luck!!
EDIT: - text-color on the signup form is black with a black background. Not sure if intended? Nearly impossible to read what I type. (FF 44.0.2)
- (not a native speaker) but the english-text in the video seems weird: „much tools“, „very hassle“.
- the landing page is too bloated in my eyes (colors, text), really hard to get a quick grasp of what it is about
Good luck!!
EDIT: - text-color on the signup form is black with a black background. Not sure if intended? Nearly impossible to read what I type. (FF 44.0.2)
> - (not a native speaker) but the english-text in the video seems weird: „much tools“, „very hassle“
This is a play on doge speak[0]
[0]: http://the-toast.net/2014/02/06/linguist-explains-grammar-do...
This is a play on doge speak[0]
[0]: http://the-toast.net/2014/02/06/linguist-explains-grammar-do...
thanks for taking the time to explain!!
I think you've made a mistake in how you're marketing this. Who is your target customer? Someone who already uses a smorgasbord of tools? I suspect that they're going to find something to complain about every single feature of yours. "I like the way A does B. You should do that too otherwise I can't use it". You're setting yourself up for a huge support pain as well as possibly demoralizing complaints.
So what are your killer features?
So what are your killer features?
0. All this stuff
1. E2E encryption
2. Cloud sync (presumably I could just store the DB on Dropbox)
3. Ad-hoc organization via hashtags
So, a quick review from my beta access...
Consol is very very slick. It's definitely a UI for "power-users" /s and I would prefer this over my current productivity stack, which is just gMail, gCalendar, gTasks, etc. It's much more streamlined and very well thought out. But I can't afford to be locked into these tools, especially not for 9 bucks a month. Consol really is just a reimplementation of many of google's tools, with tighter integration and less baggage.
I'd be jazzed if my boss bought a license for the whole company, instead of a company google account. But until that happens, Consol will be, IMHO, a very shiny ghetto. Because of the break with traditional tools, it will be hard to build a user base because of a reverse network effect- I can't use Consol effectively until other user's signup as well. IMHO that hurdle can only be cleared by signing up whole teams, not individual users.
I would recommend tighter integration with existing services but that does not seem to be compatible with end-to-end encryption. Perhaps it would be helpful to introduce a migration tool for acclimating new users.
TL;DR A nice tool IFF you whole team migrates at once and you can make a clean break with the past.
Consol is very very slick. It's definitely a UI for "power-users" /s and I would prefer this over my current productivity stack, which is just gMail, gCalendar, gTasks, etc. It's much more streamlined and very well thought out. But I can't afford to be locked into these tools, especially not for 9 bucks a month. Consol really is just a reimplementation of many of google's tools, with tighter integration and less baggage.
I'd be jazzed if my boss bought a license for the whole company, instead of a company google account. But until that happens, Consol will be, IMHO, a very shiny ghetto. Because of the break with traditional tools, it will be hard to build a user base because of a reverse network effect- I can't use Consol effectively until other user's signup as well. IMHO that hurdle can only be cleared by signing up whole teams, not individual users.
I would recommend tighter integration with existing services but that does not seem to be compatible with end-to-end encryption. Perhaps it would be helpful to introduce a migration tool for acclimating new users.
TL;DR A nice tool IFF you whole team migrates at once and you can make a clean break with the past.
Very nice looking but seems awfully heavy. A dedicated in-app chat feature is the metaphorical kitchen-sink.
It's an updated version of "The Law of Software Envelopment": http://static.userland.com/userLandDiscussArchive/msg018352....
I know most people don't care, but your sign-up email is broken: there's no plain-text part -- just some crummy html. I'm not sure if the fault is with sendgrid or your system -- either way it's not that hard to have a proper plaintext/ReST/Markdown part, and a html part... (which also encourages testing across the myriad of email clients and webmail providers to see if you manage to generate html that none of them botch up...).
The CC form only accepts a 3-digit CSC which prevents me from signing up with my Amex.
I agree the input should allow 4 digits, but you should still be able to use the three digit code on the back of the AMEX instead.
4 digits are now allowed.
The video you've done / pointing out the current status on this crowded space -- really nice.
I don't love the onboarding (too many barriers to getting started) but you guys seem like smart guys. I'm sure there's a reason for it and/or you'll figure it out.
Good luck!
I don't love the onboarding (too many barriers to getting started) but you guys seem like smart guys. I'm sure there's a reason for it and/or you'll figure it out.
Good luck!
I have no idea if I'm going to like the tool itself but hot damn that's a good video.
I know you say Desktop first (and I like that idea), but do you still plan to do mobile apps in the future ?
I think I could definitely be a user of this app as I am searching for a similar solution.
Also, you say in your video you can save code, does it include syntax highlighting ?
Can you have a shared "library" of stuff with other people ?
Edit: Can you pay for instance 1 year in advance and not leave your CC details on the server ?
I always prefer to renew manually than leaving ma credit card details all over the place.
I think I could definitely be a user of this app as I am searching for a similar solution.
Also, you say in your video you can save code, does it include syntax highlighting ?
Can you have a shared "library" of stuff with other people ?
Edit: Can you pay for instance 1 year in advance and not leave your CC details on the server ?
I always prefer to renew manually than leaving ma credit card details all over the place.
Answering myself, I see that quite a lot of the answers are available in this blog post :)
Please, keep updating it like you already did to track what you released !
https://www.consol.io/top-10-missing-features-you-need-in-co...
Please, keep updating it like you already did to track what you released !
https://www.consol.io/top-10-missing-features-you-need-in-co...
Will do!
1. Yes on mobile apps, check out our first blog post: https://www.consol.io/top-10-missing-features-you-need-in-co...
2. The code does include Syntax highlighting
3. A Shared "Library" is something we are actively working on delpoying. It's very very high on our roadmap.
4. Stripe handles the CC, so we don't store it. That may not answer your question, but I know that's true. We are also working on longer subscription pricing. Expect that very soon.
2. The code does include Syntax highlighting
3. A Shared "Library" is something we are actively working on delpoying. It's very very high on our roadmap.
4. Stripe handles the CC, so we don't store it. That may not answer your question, but I know that's true. We are also working on longer subscription pricing. Expect that very soon.
I like the look of this, and have attempted to sign up to the beta. However, I get this cryptic message about my (valid) credit card: "You must supply either a card, customer, pii data, or bank account to create a token."
https://www.consol.io/pricing/
Just says "Pricing" with no pricing details.
Standby, this is being updated.
Okay, I watched the promo video, read the homepage, took a quick look at the Terms of Service, and I still have a bunch of questions. Biggest ones:
* Is it open source? (My assumption by skimming through the ToS is no, but I still haven't found a definitive answer.)
* Does it work on Linux? Or is it web-based maybe? How about Android?
* Is it going to be free? If not, what's the price of it?
* Is it open source? (My assumption by skimming through the ToS is no, but I still haven't found a definitive answer.)
* Does it work on Linux? Or is it web-based maybe? How about Android?
* Is it going to be free? If not, what's the price of it?
1. Not open source today
2. It's web based only right now (native apps for later)
3. It's $9/mo base (+$7 to add End-to-end encryption)
Awww. I was really excited until I saw it isn't a native app. My notion of Desktop First is a native & offline app (a big benefit since I often need to manage my task lists when I don't have net access).
We want the same thing. We love the idea of a native app that works offline. It will happen.
> At this time, Consol supports encryption only of certain content types, viz. notes, code blocks, and images, for users who have subscribed to the E2EE component. The other content types available in Consol are not yet encryptable.
> Notably, Consol E2EE does not yet support encryption of the titles of any content types. For example, if you create a Consol note and encrypt it, the text you add to the note’s body will be encrypted but its title will not be encrypted. For now, you should operate accordingly. We plan to improve this in the future.
> You acknowledge that if you encrypt an item after you create and add content to it, there may be a period of time in which your item’s body content is not encrypted while being stored in our database. To ensure the greatest security currently available in Consol’s system, you should, where possible, encrypt an item in its pageview before you begin adding content to it. It is better practice in Consol to encrypt an item first and only then begin work by adding content.
> This means that for certain content types that require creation and upload before the pageview is visible, such as uploadable or linkable images, Consol does not yet provide a way to encrypt such body data beforehand. You acknowledge and consent to the attendant risk that you must manually designate certain content for encryption after it has been uploaded.
I don't appreciate having to dig through your FAQ to find the holes and caveats. There is literally no technical reason for this.
If you are going to make security promises like this you need to:
1) Actually have them implemented.
2) Have them secure by default.