Steve Jobs “Folks who want porn can buy an Android phone”(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Steve Jobs “Folks who want porn can buy an Android phone”
http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/19/steve-jobs-android-porn/
63 comments
3 years of having arguments with the public will make some people lose their patience. That's how I see it.
What really bothers me about this particular aspect of the App Store approval process is how hypocritical it is. If Apple wants to make the App Store a clean place then that is their prerogative. However, to leave Sports Illustrated Swimsuit apps and sex position apps while talking all high and mighty seems rather hypocritical.
Are you asking why Apple allows the same stuff you can find in a Barnes & Nobles but refuses to allow porn?
Maybe Steve does the B&N test?
Maybe Steve does the B&N test?
I still think comparing the App Store to physical stores is a flawed analogy:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1272433
Jobs emphasizes this by pointing out that Android (or, non-Apple) is the only option available for mobile software if you disagree with Apple's app store policies. Why not allow people to download/install apps outside the App Store? They do own the phone, right?
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1272433
Jobs emphasizes this by pointing out that Android (or, non-Apple) is the only option available for mobile software if you disagree with Apple's app store policies. Why not allow people to download/install apps outside the App Store? They do own the phone, right?
>They do own the phone, right?
That's just a technicality.
They own the phone but for Apple it's more like a subscription: people will buy apps from Apple's AppStore, buy accessories that need Apple's approval (and where Apple gets a cut) and after maximum 3 years upgrade to the next Apple piece of hardware.
So the phone purchase isn't an atomic purchase, it's more like the first downpayment to "the Apple experience".
That's just a technicality.
They own the phone but for Apple it's more like a subscription: people will buy apps from Apple's AppStore, buy accessories that need Apple's approval (and where Apple gets a cut) and after maximum 3 years upgrade to the next Apple piece of hardware.
So the phone purchase isn't an atomic purchase, it's more like the first downpayment to "the Apple experience".
Barnes and Noble has porn on their magazine shelves.
Wouldn't want Steve to Think Different, would we?
I would guess they're using more of a common sense standard than an absolute standard. The Sports Illustrated Swimsuit magazine can be found on any newstand and I don't think it carries any age restrictions (not sure though) and the Karma Sutra is widely stocked in libraries. They are both examples of sexual content that has a broad social mandate to freely exist. There's the issue of quantity of these apps which I think is probably along the lines of a newstand that stocks a few porno magazines is very different from a porno shop.
The other ridiculous thing about Jobs's position is that, for well over half the world, SI Swimsuit apps are porn.
He is using the term as if it had some kind of objective definition, and that makes no sense at all.
He is using the term as if it had some kind of objective definition, and that makes no sense at all.
for well over half the world, SI Swimsuit apps are porn
Does the App Store in those countries sell those applications?
Does the App Store in those countries sell those applications?
Wouldn't it be funny if people did just that, by the millions?
Apparently Apple is feeling the heat, if he feels compelled to publically denigrate his competitors that way.
It's only denigrating if you yourself feel that porn is a bad association. If not, it's just stating a pretty reasonable suggestion: if having porn apps is important to you, buy a phone that supports porn apps. Don't buy one that doesn't.
The subtext is that Apple is willing to lose customers over not being in the porn business, and he's willing to state as much. Maybe this could be seen as denigrating if you suppose that they probably won't lose very many at all over it, suggesting the availability of porn apps on Android does not really add much value to the platform. But that seems a bit indirect.
You'll note he did not say "people who want porn are bad people" or "people who want Android phones are bad people" or "porn is the only thing Android is good for".
The subtext is that Apple is willing to lose customers over not being in the porn business, and he's willing to state as much. Maybe this could be seen as denigrating if you suppose that they probably won't lose very many at all over it, suggesting the availability of porn apps on Android does not really add much value to the platform. But that seems a bit indirect.
You'll note he did not say "people who want porn are bad people" or "people who want Android phones are bad people" or "porn is the only thing Android is good for".
He's also subtly lying. The implication in his statement is that porn apps are allowed in the Android Market, which is false and I'm sure Steve knows it's false. See the android developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html.
The implication in his statement is that porn apps are allowed in the Android Market
...how? He doesn't mention the Android Market. He surely knows the Android Market is not the only way to get applications -- in fact, TechCrunch even quotes him elsewhere as indicating that there is a "a porn store for Android". Not anything like "There is porn in the Android Market".
Remember, the context is him responding to a request about his product. Stating clearly that people who want what is being asked for should go elsewhere makes a lot more sense to me than it being some kind of vague underhanded marketing tactic. What else would you say if someone asks for something you're not interested in selling? Should he say "Oh well maybe we'll reconsider. Don't buy a product that does what you want."? Wouldn't that be dishonest? I mean, if this is lying so subtle that you have to explain it I really don't think it's meant to deceive.
The whole thing is just silly and shows how little it really takes to get HN into a frenzy these days.
...how? He doesn't mention the Android Market. He surely knows the Android Market is not the only way to get applications -- in fact, TechCrunch even quotes him elsewhere as indicating that there is a "a porn store for Android". Not anything like "There is porn in the Android Market".
Remember, the context is him responding to a request about his product. Stating clearly that people who want what is being asked for should go elsewhere makes a lot more sense to me than it being some kind of vague underhanded marketing tactic. What else would you say if someone asks for something you're not interested in selling? Should he say "Oh well maybe we'll reconsider. Don't buy a product that does what you want."? Wouldn't that be dishonest? I mean, if this is lying so subtle that you have to explain it I really don't think it's meant to deceive.
The whole thing is just silly and shows how little it really takes to get HN into a frenzy these days.
I'm certain he's aware of it. I'm certain he's also aware that you can easily get to porn on an iPhone using Mobile Safari. Much more easily than installing an non-Market app like Mikandi and then using it to find porn. Hell there are even a rather astonishing number of porn sites that seem to specialize in iPhone optimized content.
So given all that, you have to wonder why does he even bother to mention Android at all, especially considering that the Android Market prohibits porn just like the Apple App store. You've got to be incredibly naive, or deliberately disingenuous to claim it doesn't sound like a deliberate attempt to slander his competition. Kind of like the old political routine of asking your opponent when he stopped beating his wife. :-)
So given all that, you have to wonder why does he even bother to mention Android at all, especially considering that the Android Market prohibits porn just like the Apple App store. You've got to be incredibly naive, or deliberately disingenuous to claim it doesn't sound like a deliberate attempt to slander his competition. Kind of like the old political routine of asking your opponent when he stopped beating his wife. :-)
You've got to be incredibly naive, or deliberately disingenuous to claim it doesn't sound like a deliberate attempt to slander his competition.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I believe you're wrong in your interpretation. You won't hear anymore about it.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I believe you're wrong in your interpretation. You won't hear anymore about it.
It's bad if a substantial number of people feel that porn is bad, or at least claim to feel so (which is pretty much a given) and can be made to think that "porn is the only reason to prefer Android over Apple" (which the statement can be read to imply).
But I don't think that a large enough section of the general populace pays attention to Steve Jobs' every utterance to make this statement problematic in that regard. But it could be a pretty nasty way to run a reverse astroturfing campaign.
But I don't think that a large enough section of the general populace pays attention to Steve Jobs' every utterance to make this statement problematic in that regard. But it could be a pretty nasty way to run a reverse astroturfing campaign.
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Who cares? That's what a browser is for. + vids+pics.
What utility would be added by making an 'App'?
What utility would be added by making an 'App'?
Multitouch and GPU acceleration? E.g. fast pinch-to-zoom into hi-res originals.
Somehow "multitouch" and "pinch-to-zoom" sound really strange in this context... :-)
I'm all for porn. Larry Flint said it once: It's just sex.
So why make a big deal of it? There is no way you can take the morale high-ground by disallowing porn. Tell me, are apples customers conservatives that walk around playing golf all day?
So why make a big deal of it? There is no way you can take the morale high-ground by disallowing porn. Tell me, are apples customers conservatives that walk around playing golf all day?
Um, most porn is nothing like sex.
Yeah. In porn, people are having fun!
But seriously, the mentality that porn is dirty is misguided, especially alongside the death and destruction that are pushed in the gaming industry.
But seriously, the mentality that porn is dirty is misguided, especially alongside the death and destruction that are pushed in the gaming industry.
The problem with (most) porn is that they really aren't having fun. All they are doing is working through a list of positions.
I guess it depends on what porn exactly. I know a few people in the biz, both the indie side and the pro side, and they have a ton of fun.... I'm sure there's some folks who aren't, but I don't watch that stuff:)
The problem with (most) work is that they really aren't having fun. all they are doing is working through a list of documents.
Well, if you want to get serious: Most professionals in the industry enjoy their work. They have "fun" as much as anyone can in any line of work.
I have fun programming, and I program for work. I have fun at work. I enjoy what I do.
Anyways, it was meant as a joke. That porn is fun and real sex is not.
Nevermind. =/
I have fun programming, and I program for work. I have fun at work. I enjoy what I do.
Anyways, it was meant as a joke. That porn is fun and real sex is not.
Nevermind. =/
the antichrist: a porn game!
I guess it depends on what kind of porn you like to view? :-)
It's just a question of distribution. Even if someone likes porn they may choose to keep it stashed away safely and separate from their other magazines and movies. (Mobile Safari) They would very likely object to to someone setting up a make-shift newstand in their front yard to sell porno magazines. (AppStore)
People have different sensitivities. What you may find "no big deal" may be a huge deal to other.
This is doubly ironic with Apple's hipster, Manhattan-liberal gestalt...
Clearly, Steve Jobs is the only person in the world that believes privacy mode in browsers is for planning surprise birthday gifts for your spouse.
This is not about web browsers at all.
Isn't that what Sony/Betamax said about VHS?
I have no real hangup over porn (indeed, I spend days looking at it for work..) but I can see his point.
Apple, understandably, don't want to be in the minefield arena of porn distribution via the App Store - it's a smoking gun in a sense.
This is just a closed product of the App store.
Though it appears Jobs also considers it a moral imperative; which is wrong.
Apple, understandably, don't want to be in the minefield arena of porn distribution via the App Store - it's a smoking gun in a sense.
This is just a closed product of the App store.
Though it appears Jobs also considers it a moral imperative; which is wrong.
To repeat what others have said: there is no porn in the Android Marketplace. There is a 3rd party adult appstore. There are also some "girlie" apps like swimsuit model calendars or whatever. Saying "Folks who want porn can buy and [sic] Android phone" is not Jobs defending the iPhone but attacking the Android platform.
To be fair; Jobs is commenting about Android - not the Android Marketplace. It feels a distinct difference.
(I wasn't commenting on that anyway tbh)
(I wasn't commenting on that anyway tbh)
Total strawman argument. The Android market also doesn't allow porn. See the developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html.
Not at all. Android is irrelevant to the point I was making.
Sorry, I thought your comment about Apple not wanting to be in the porn distribution business related to Jobs misleading and false implication that the Android Market is in the porn business.
Nah it wasn't. Hosting porn is a potential minefield, one that face I can see why it would be avoided.
Edit; strictly speaking were putting words in his mouth there. He said android not android marketplace. And in that he is strictly accurate.
Edit; strictly speaking were putting words in his mouth there. He said android not android marketplace. And in that he is strictly accurate.
Well, thanks for the tip. Will do.
But what's really amazing about that guy is that he is apparently unable to understand the difference between a thing and an explanation of that thing. He has banned (or rather censored) a dictionary on the grounds that it included the words "fuck" and "shit" after all.
OK, it was fun writing that, but I actually don't believe it. He does understand that difference. He just thinks keeping the utmost distance from anything "dirty" regardless of the type of connection is beneficial to his franchise.
We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out in the market in the long run. Whilst waiting I'm going to buy an Android phone for hacking and other types of pleasure ;-)
But what's really amazing about that guy is that he is apparently unable to understand the difference between a thing and an explanation of that thing. He has banned (or rather censored) a dictionary on the grounds that it included the words "fuck" and "shit" after all.
OK, it was fun writing that, but I actually don't believe it. He does understand that difference. He just thinks keeping the utmost distance from anything "dirty" regardless of the type of connection is beneficial to his franchise.
We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out in the market in the long run. Whilst waiting I'm going to buy an Android phone for hacking and other types of pleasure ;-)
Except porn isn't allowed in the Android appstore either.
The difference is, the Android appstore isn't the only source of apps.
I completely agree.
It appears people are taking this statement the wrong way - Porn isn't allowed in the appstore, so his statement is bullshit. Of course we can install our own apps / porn on Android! That's one of the best parts.
But we (android community) get to dodge the THINK OF THE CHILDREN bullshit that Jobs is trying to stir up because it's not allowed in the default distribution method.
It appears people are taking this statement the wrong way - Porn isn't allowed in the appstore, so his statement is bullshit. Of course we can install our own apps / porn on Android! That's one of the best parts.
But we (android community) get to dodge the THINK OF THE CHILDREN bullshit that Jobs is trying to stir up because it's not allowed in the default distribution method.
Just to be clear. The Android marketplace doesn't allow porn either.
But due to the open nature of the iPhone a company created a "pornstore."
IMHO, the browser has been a pretty good porn marketplace for a long time - I don't see the need.
But due to the open nature of the iPhone a company created a "pornstore."
IMHO, the browser has been a pretty good porn marketplace for a long time - I don't see the need.
I think he doesn't really believe it, except in the sense that he wants to avoid the brand being tainted by identification with porn.
That is, he doesn't want to see something on the TV news about how high schoolers with iPhones are watching porn in the cafeteria.
That is, he doesn't want to see something on the TV news about how high schoolers with iPhones are watching porn in the cafeteria.
Err.. They already can watch porn on the iPhon in the cafeteria. Do a quick google search for "iphone porn". There are a HUGE number of porn websites that do a perfectly fine job of streaming porn to the iPhone/iPod Touch.
That's interesting. I haven't had a problem looking at porn on the Web using the iPhone. Okay, the screen's a bit small so it's pointless, but still. WTF would we want to pay for it when the Web has so much for free?
maxklein said it best:
Do you really think Apple wants porn apps in their Top 25 Grossing, Paid, and Free lists?
"I'm an app store developer, and if Apple opens the doors, let me tell you what will happen : First of all, there will be hardcore porn immediately. Boob apps will flood the store, because that's what makes money."
http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=1110804
Do you really think Apple wants porn apps in their Top 25 Grossing, Paid, and Free lists?
"I'm an app store developer, and if Apple opens the doors, let me tell you what will happen : First of all, there will be hardcore porn immediately. Boob apps will flood the store, because that's what makes money."
http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=1110804
Just to be clear, the Android Market doesn't allow porn apps either (see the developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html).
But it is relatively easy for an Android user to load apps from outside the Android Market. One of these apps is a porn market: http://phandroid.com/2009/11/27/android-porn-market-from-mik...
Bit of a tempest in a teapot really, since any user who could figure out how to download and install mikandi (or the equivalent) could also just search for any of the NUMEROUS porn web sites that work just fine on either Android or iPhone.
Bit of a tempest in a teapot really, since any user who could figure out how to download and install mikandi (or the equivalent) could also just search for any of the NUMEROUS porn web sites that work just fine on either Android or iPhone.
honestly, who is he to dictate what we oughta do and dont
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This is another brilliant marketing move by Steve and an attempt to influence the news media's view of the Android phone.
If the news media starts talking about Android phones as "porn" phones then the iPhone will be presented as the shiny white alternative to that.
If the news media starts talking about Android phones as "porn" phones then the iPhone will be presented as the shiny white alternative to that.
I'm not sure how a completely obvious lie is a brilliant marketing move. Granted, lying has worked for some companies before, but personally I think this is likely to do more to hurt Jobs reputation than to help it.
wasn't it steve-jobs who had earlier potificated : 'i would rather be a pirate than be in the navy...' why so serious ?
done
This seems to be a smart movie on Jobs' part. I'm not an Apple fan per se (I don't own any Apple products) but can see some definite advantages to Jobs' strategy.
1. Every business guy I've talked to loved the iPhone's power and what they could do without needing to lug a laptop around everywhere. So the iPhone has a definite business appeal, and keeping porn out helps keep that ambiance. 2. Clearly he is using the porn store for Android as a, "hey, Android is entertainment, iPhone is for professionals " type of message. 3. I think the other smart thing, which no one in Apple will talk about is the reduced bandwidth consumption they will have by not having porn! It is an inherently bandwidth hungry system (presuming online, not stored in a DB) to be encouraging videos and images. 3a) This allows them to leave out a strategically bad (PR/Marketing-wise) niche that would strain an already strained infrastructure. 3b) This strain on the infrastructure would affect those business types that they have good appeal with.
FWIW - I think people claiming that Apple is socially conservative is absurd. They have a former VP candidate for the Democratic party on their board. And I bet if people looked into it, they'd find a health balance of board political donations go to liberals.
1. Every business guy I've talked to loved the iPhone's power and what they could do without needing to lug a laptop around everywhere. So the iPhone has a definite business appeal, and keeping porn out helps keep that ambiance. 2. Clearly he is using the porn store for Android as a, "hey, Android is entertainment, iPhone is for professionals " type of message. 3. I think the other smart thing, which no one in Apple will talk about is the reduced bandwidth consumption they will have by not having porn! It is an inherently bandwidth hungry system (presuming online, not stored in a DB) to be encouraging videos and images. 3a) This allows them to leave out a strategically bad (PR/Marketing-wise) niche that would strain an already strained infrastructure. 3b) This strain on the infrastructure would affect those business types that they have good appeal with.
FWIW - I think people claiming that Apple is socially conservative is absurd. They have a former VP candidate for the Democratic party on their board. And I bet if people looked into it, they'd find a health balance of board political donations go to liberals.
Jobs is also lying and I'm sure he knows it. Personally I'm not sure I see how that's a good move. The Android Market doesn't allow porn apps either (see the developer content policy here: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html).
The bandwidth consumpsion argument is also total bullshit. Do a quick google/bing search for "iphone porn". There are a lot of porn sites ready, willing, and able to stream porn videos to Mobile Safari.
The bandwidth consumpsion argument is also total bullshit. Do a quick google/bing search for "iphone porn". There are a lot of porn sites ready, willing, and able to stream porn videos to Mobile Safari.