Berlin Is Bringing Back Subway Trains from the 1950s(citylab.com)
citylab.com
Berlin Is Bringing Back Subway Trains from the 1950s
http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/11/the-berlin-subway-is-bringing-back-1950s-trains/506450/?utm_source=SFFB
100 comments
The agency that is doing their current campaign are very good at what they do (https://www.jvm.com/en/work/). But I guess if I was being super cynical I'd say hiring a hip ad agency to make your brand sympathetic isn't exactly "doing many things differently", although I admire the success of it.
In other words, they are insulting the intelligence of their potential customers; that's what they do differently.
I think the fact that they are making fun of themselves is nice and different... just compare it with spots of other public transport companies (like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a5MRlppTAM)... I mean we all know that public transport sucks and these companies usually try to sell it of as relaxed and fun.
> just compare it with spots of other public transport companies (like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a5MRlppTAM).
The half-naked surfer getting into the tram probably looks totally stupid if one doesn't have the context: This is at a place where in summer many people swim downstream in the river and then take the tram for two stops to get back where they started from, which is a place where people surf. (video, tram can be seen at around 5:00: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py4lPdvPV5o)
So the video is not quite as stupid as it looks.
The half-naked surfer getting into the tram probably looks totally stupid if one doesn't have the context: This is at a place where in summer many people swim downstream in the river and then take the tram for two stops to get back where they started from, which is a place where people surf. (video, tram can be seen at around 5:00: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py4lPdvPV5o)
So the video is not quite as stupid as it looks.
But who goes swimming with their smartphone?
You can buy a waterproof case with a strap for like $6 that's clear and supports touchscreens so you can take pictures in the water. So basically anyone that wants to can.
I do - because audiobooks. Streaming (or even downloaded) video is less convenient, but still possible.
Yes, you're right: Approximately none of these people have a ticket.
People do literally everything with their smartphone.
there have been several waterproof smartphones on the marked since the z3 launched
Seems like a variation of this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxVcgDMBU94 :D
Honestly those ads just make me think they don't get it at all. I don't want them to make fun of themselves, I want trains on time, when I need them, clean and neat, with a seat not next to a fat or smelly person.
Of course you can't get that with public transportation, so I just drive my car.
Of course you can't get that with public transportation, so I just drive my car.
I guess you don't live in Berlin. The public transport system is part of the soul of the city. I can't imagine buying a car here. Why would I need to?
Have you taken public transit in Germany? I've never experienced a late or dirty train.
same here. and as always, stupid hyper-educated pseudo-environmental urban hipsters downvote you.
for me, as a german living in berlin for a long time, these ads are an insult to the people. every criticism is legit and they make fun of it because they are politically controlled, get their money anyway and have absolutely no incentive changing things for the better.
one other example of bvg's utter shit show: their mobile app is quite good and even allows to buy digital tickets in real time. but you can't pay with paypal, stripe, bitcoin or apple pay (granted, apple pay is yet to land in germany). and the most hilarious thing is that the ticket you just bought and paid for is not valid without an ID.
prices rise every year while service does _not_ get better. i could go on and on. this public transport is just a big pile of shit.
for me, as a german living in berlin for a long time, these ads are an insult to the people. every criticism is legit and they make fun of it because they are politically controlled, get their money anyway and have absolutely no incentive changing things for the better.
one other example of bvg's utter shit show: their mobile app is quite good and even allows to buy digital tickets in real time. but you can't pay with paypal, stripe, bitcoin or apple pay (granted, apple pay is yet to land in germany). and the most hilarious thing is that the ticket you just bought and paid for is not valid without an ID.
prices rise every year while service does _not_ get better. i could go on and on. this public transport is just a big pile of shit.
That's so German. Maintenance is taken seriously.
The Berlin Wall had cut several railroad lines. When the wall came down, the tracks were quickly reconnected. Both sides had been maintaining them right up to the wall for three decades.
East and West Germany both had area codes, but although they had different country codes, there was no duplication of area codes, allowing an easy conversion to country code 49 after reunification.
The Berlin Wall had cut several railroad lines. When the wall came down, the tracks were quickly reconnected. Both sides had been maintaining them right up to the wall for three decades.
East and West Germany both had area codes, but although they had different country codes, there was no duplication of area codes, allowing an easy conversion to country code 49 after reunification.
The underground lines through east Berlin were not cut, but the stations on the east side were barricaded and the trains didn't stop.
There was an elevated line that was cut, and it took several years after the fall of the wall to restore service.
http://www.appropriatesoftware.com/BerlinWall/Essay4.html
There was an elevated line that was cut, and it took several years after the fall of the wall to restore service.
http://www.appropriatesoftware.com/BerlinWall/Essay4.html
Not transit lines, heavy rail.
I don't know. The Berlin train system is known for stopping to work if its either to hot, to cold, to windy or to rainy.
This is about the subway (U-Bahn), not the rapid transit (S-Bahn), the latter had serious issues with maintenance a couple of years ago.
I recall that before unification(in West Berlin) S-Bahn trains used to be older and U-Bahn trains were newer. I do not know current state of comparison between U-Bahn and S-Bahn trains.
The DB bought newer cars in the late 1990s, the class 481. But this class had a lot of issues, which could be mitigated by better maintenance but since the DB wanted to go public those costs were too high, so they cut spending on maintenance.
And so the 481 will be replaced by the 483 and 484.
And so the 481 will be replaced by the 483 and 484.
The 'Dora' UBahns can be seen here in the Pyongyang Metro [1]
http://www.earthnutshell.com/stopping-all-stations-the-pyong...
http://www.earthnutshell.com/stopping-all-stations-the-pyong...
Also in the ABC News/Jaunt VR 360 piece, "Inside North Korea": https://www.jauntvr.com/title/f81fc63d1d (disclaimer: I'm Jaunt's data scientist.)
The town I live in still runs 14 trams built in the 50's-early 60's in continual regular service. They were upgraded with AC in the 80's...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagoshima_City_Transportation_...
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/鹿児島市交通局500形電車
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/鹿児島市交通局600形電車
One has been outfitted for sightseeing traffic http://www.kotsu-city-kagoshima.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/kag...
One has been outfitted with bar seating for private events ($200/2 hr) http://www.kotsu-city-kagoshima.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/201...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagoshima_City_Transportation_...
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/鹿児島市交通局500形電車
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/鹿児島市交通局600形電車
One has been outfitted for sightseeing traffic http://www.kotsu-city-kagoshima.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/kag...
One has been outfitted with bar seating for private events ($200/2 hr) http://www.kotsu-city-kagoshima.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/201...
Huh, funny thing, we have had train cars from 50s in Moscow subway since 50s
The communist murals are also timeless (but seriously, well worth a visit: the subway stations in Moscow are beautiful).
The subway stations in Kiev are very beautiful too - most other subway stations in Europe look very utilitarian in comparison.
I was just there a month ago and yeah, the "normal" stations looked the same or better than the ones back home, and the nicer stations were really beautiful.
There's also the Sparrow Hills station which is a metro station built into a bridge and a fabulous view over the river. The entrance at one end of the bridge leads into the central park.
Other then the noise and really pushy people, I was very impressed by Moscow's metro.
There's also the Sparrow Hills station which is a metro station built into a bridge and a fabulous view over the river. The entrance at one end of the bridge leads into the central park.
Other then the noise and really pushy people, I was very impressed by Moscow's metro.
Berlin's trains in North Korea..
On a side Note:
The Stuttgart S-Bahn's can be found it Tunis.
Has anyone encountered other trains in exile?
On a side Note:
The Stuttgart S-Bahn's can be found it Tunis.
Has anyone encountered other trains in exile?
Not a train, but years ago I found myself on a flight in the Republic of Congo - only to have this strange feeling that something was a bit odd.
After a few minutes, I realized it was the faded sticker on the seatback in front of me - it said 'Livvest under setet dykkar' ('Life vest under your seat') in Norwegian - definitely not something you'd expect to see on a flight en route to Pointe-Noire!
I checked the MFG # sign as I left the aircraft, and a few E-mails later I found the plane (A 737-200) had been sold for scrap in 1993 as it no longer complied with relevant noise regulations; it then made its way to the Congo by some dubious route and, to paraphrase the puzzled Boeing customer rep who got in touch - 'As far as we are concerned, the plane is not as much flying as not having crashed yet.'
Aircraft in exile indeed.
After a few minutes, I realized it was the faded sticker on the seatback in front of me - it said 'Livvest under setet dykkar' ('Life vest under your seat') in Norwegian - definitely not something you'd expect to see on a flight en route to Pointe-Noire!
I checked the MFG # sign as I left the aircraft, and a few E-mails later I found the plane (A 737-200) had been sold for scrap in 1993 as it no longer complied with relevant noise regulations; it then made its way to the Congo by some dubious route and, to paraphrase the puzzled Boeing customer rep who got in touch - 'As far as we are concerned, the plane is not as much flying as not having crashed yet.'
Aircraft in exile indeed.
> the plane is not as much flying as not having crashed yet.'
> Aircraft in exile indeed.
That made me think of this; vintage Douglas DC-3 plane in Columbia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-F-cBF5ZbQ
That made me think of this; vintage Douglas DC-3 plane in Columbia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-F-cBF5ZbQ
Note that ancient and operated in a remote part of the world (well, remote to me, anyway!) does not necessarily mean poorly maintained.
One (dubious) perk of my job is that I get to fly on all sorts of dilapidated airlines all over the world. I have never flown on a DC-3, but have tried its DC-4 and DC-6 siblings on a couple of occasions. They do have a couple of things going for them:
a) Over-engineered to extremes; rather than calculating how much weight could be shed without making a part too fragile, it seems they did the opposite - just how sturdy can we make this and still be able to take off? This approach doesn't get them any fuel economy medals, but as for longevity? Oh-la-la.
b) Very (VERY) simple to work on; simple access to just about anything that matters, very little by way of fancy solutions requiring deep specialist knowledge. As long as you maintain oil pressure, the engines will run.
Also, the economics kicks in here, too - maintaining an airframe properly is cheaper in the long run than having to replace them occasionally after a total loss. Presumably also better for your reputation and recruiting capability.
While chatting with the aircrew of a positively ancient Antonov in the Congo once, I found that a mechanic would come along for the flight. In my naïvety, I asked what he could do in the event of an issue while en route. The first officer shrugged and said 'Not much - but it sure keeps them focussed while working on the plane!'
Crude, but effective.
One (dubious) perk of my job is that I get to fly on all sorts of dilapidated airlines all over the world. I have never flown on a DC-3, but have tried its DC-4 and DC-6 siblings on a couple of occasions. They do have a couple of things going for them:
a) Over-engineered to extremes; rather than calculating how much weight could be shed without making a part too fragile, it seems they did the opposite - just how sturdy can we make this and still be able to take off? This approach doesn't get them any fuel economy medals, but as for longevity? Oh-la-la.
b) Very (VERY) simple to work on; simple access to just about anything that matters, very little by way of fancy solutions requiring deep specialist knowledge. As long as you maintain oil pressure, the engines will run.
Also, the economics kicks in here, too - maintaining an airframe properly is cheaper in the long run than having to replace them occasionally after a total loss. Presumably also better for your reputation and recruiting capability.
While chatting with the aircrew of a positively ancient Antonov in the Congo once, I found that a mechanic would come along for the flight. In my naïvety, I asked what he could do in the event of an issue while en route. The first officer shrugged and said 'Not much - but it sure keeps them focussed while working on the plane!'
Crude, but effective.
The Isle of Wight uses retired former London Underground trains, which has given rise to rather wonderful instances like this: http://www.islandecho.co.uk/news/steam-rescue-stranded-islan...
During the 2000's the Danish rail ordered trains from Italy - it was a long and problemridden process, and the trains are scheduled to be scrapped as soon as possible. The factory making the trains sent one of them to Libya, as a gift for Gaddafi's 40th anniversary! At one point you could see the track laid out, and the train standing there, on Google Maps' satelite view.
This article (in Danish) has a picture of the train: https://ing.dk/artikel/ic4-tog-i-libyen-var-en-gave-til-gadd...
Wikipedia has more details:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC4#Other
Funny enough, SF Muni's trains were built by AnsaldoBreda and they're huge piles of shit too.
They are over the design weight and have shoddy brakes so they're downrated from their specified top speed. The increased weight makes them much harsher on the tracks and transmits way more vibration to neighboring houses. The doors have overly complex mechanisms prone to jamming. So do the rising stairs. The air conditioners leak condensation. Overall they get far fewer miles between maintenance windows than they should - by less than half - resulting in a lot more cars stuck in the maintenance yard reducing an already over-stretched capacity.
They also can't be coupled more than two cars at a time (where I'm calling a car the joined halves with the flexible part in the middle). Even if Muni had enough cars they couldn't run three-car trains with the Breda units.
SF finally learned its lesson; Siemens is making the new cars. The first ones should start running end of this year. They can be coupled into 3-4 car trains, have good German engineering, working brakes, etc. Muni will also end up with more of them (~120 in the current fleet, vs 240 in the new one) so there will be a lot more capacity.
They are over the design weight and have shoddy brakes so they're downrated from their specified top speed. The increased weight makes them much harsher on the tracks and transmits way more vibration to neighboring houses. The doors have overly complex mechanisms prone to jamming. So do the rising stairs. The air conditioners leak condensation. Overall they get far fewer miles between maintenance windows than they should - by less than half - resulting in a lot more cars stuck in the maintenance yard reducing an already over-stretched capacity.
They also can't be coupled more than two cars at a time (where I'm calling a car the joined halves with the flexible part in the middle). Even if Muni had enough cars they couldn't run three-car trains with the Breda units.
SF finally learned its lesson; Siemens is making the new cars. The first ones should start running end of this year. They can be coupled into 3-4 car trains, have good German engineering, working brakes, etc. Muni will also end up with more of them (~120 in the current fleet, vs 240 in the new one) so there will be a lot more capacity.
For whatever reason Siemens was unable to fix the axle counters they put in Houston's light rail system. They're being replaced with Frauscher.
http://www.rtands.com/index.php/passenger/rapid-transit-ligh...
http://www.rtands.com/index.php/passenger/rapid-transit-ligh...
The Copenhagen metro runs trains built by AnsaldoBreda, and they work well enough - so they are able to build usable rolling stock.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_Metro#Trains
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_Metro#Trains
Sydney has trams snapped up from Malaga, Spain after they could no longer afford to run their system:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/pain-in-spain-as-trams-head-to-syd...
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/pain-in-spain-as-trams-head-to-syd...
They went back to Valez-Malaga rather quickly, the plastic seats were unpopular and the manufacturer facilitating the deal (CAF) offered a killer deal to replace all the older trams in the fleet with new ones.
There are trams from Milan in San Francisco, I think from other "friend cities" too.
Yep, San Francisco also has two trams from Melbourne, Australia:
http://www.streetcar.org/second_melbourne_tram_joins_f-line-...
http://www.streetcar.org/second_melbourne_tram_joins_f-line-...
SF Muni has streetcars from all over the world running on the F line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Municipal_Railwa...
It's a lovey, romantic notion, but I want to note that SF Muni has put buses into service running the F line due to difficulty with keeping running stock, erm, running.
The original trains from the Docklands Light Railway in London are now in Essen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docklands_Light_Railway_rollin...
Canada has carriages originally intended to run overnight services through the Channel Tunnel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightstar_(train)#Via_Rail_Can...
Canada has carriages originally intended to run overnight services through the Channel Tunnel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightstar_(train)#Via_Rail_Can...
Melbourne leased, and later bought a couple of trams from Mulhouse, France 8 years ago to fill a rollingstock shortage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C2-class_Melbourne_tram
Various tram types were demoed on the Melbourne network in the 2000's - Bombardier Eurotram, Bombardier Flexity Classic (from Adelaide), Siemens CombinoPlus. Ultimately Bombardier got a contract for Flexity Swift/2 derived trams (the E class).
Adelaide also bought six trams from Madrid in similar circumstances
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Adelaide#Citadis_302_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C2-class_Melbourne_tram
Various tram types were demoed on the Melbourne network in the 2000's - Bombardier Eurotram, Bombardier Flexity Classic (from Adelaide), Siemens CombinoPlus. Ultimately Bombardier got a contract for Flexity Swift/2 derived trams (the E class).
Adelaide also bought six trams from Madrid in similar circumstances
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Adelaide#Citadis_302_...
> Has anyone encountered other trains in exile?
IIRC old narrow-gauge Spanish trains are being used in San José, Costa Rica as they have opened a small number of train lines in these last 8-10 years.
IIRC old narrow-gauge Spanish trains are being used in San José, Costa Rica as they have opened a small number of train lines in these last 8-10 years.
The TW 601, a prototype from 1970, has been in Canada (Vancouver and Edmonton) since 1975. It has been moved back to Hanover (Germany) this year.
Some infos:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/TW_601 (German article w/ picture)
http://fahrtenbuch.uestra.de/601-die-rueckkehr/ (Blog posts with pictures, just throw it in Google Translate)
Some infos:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/TW_601 (German article w/ picture)
http://fahrtenbuch.uestra.de/601-die-rueckkehr/ (Blog posts with pictures, just throw it in Google Translate)
Czech and Austrian used to circle Zagreb, Croatia. You can see czech one here http://www.infozagreb.hr/media/places/large_tramvaj-54b633fa... in the background, behind newly produced croatian ones.
I haven't encountered any, but I know that the homely one and two carriage diesel multiple unit trains (Wadlopers) that ran on the Northern lines in The Netherlands were shipped to Poland and even South America. Old diesel engine stock is popular in poorer countries that have a lot of unelectrified rural railway lines.
When Gaddaffi was austed from power two of the trains that should have been delivered to the Danish Railways were found in Tripoli. These weren't used trains either, these were brand new trains that had been custom ordered.
How they ended up there I don't know.
How they ended up there I don't know.
There are some commuter trains from France used in Romania. They still have some posters about the old line and a couple of ads.
Really? Where in Tunis? I'd love to try it
I drove them in 2002 Tunis to Sidi Bou Said. This link [1] has a picture of them, although I remember them being red. But human memory is flawed, for the bulky shape looks right ;)
I witnessed a mass burglary/theft in the train, my friend to barely hold on to his rucksack.
[1] https://www.visiting-africa.com/africa/tunisia/2010/03/train...
I witnessed a mass burglary/theft in the train, my friend to barely hold on to his rucksack.
[1] https://www.visiting-africa.com/africa/tunisia/2010/03/train...
The "TGM" (Tunis, Goulette, Marsa) line. I think they're still using the same trains and colors (blue/white) until now.
I've never been on it, but I've heard that incidents like that may happen once a year on those lines.
PS: I think it's one of the only trains I saw that doesn't have the "closed-door" safety enabled. You can open the doors while it is on full speed and it doesn't matter.
I've never been on it, but I've heard that incidents like that may happen once a year on those lines.
PS: I think it's one of the only trains I saw that doesn't have the "closed-door" safety enabled. You can open the doors while it is on full speed and it doesn't matter.
I've seen Düsseldorf trams in Gdansk
Sorry but what's the big deal about this? They renovate 3 old trains to serve some tiny tourist line. It will be mostly tourist attraction - train from 50-ties with all the old signs. It is cheaper to renovate than buy new. Is it really that unusual?
The U55 line is an amazing construction. Like the article says, you can easily walk the whole line in 10-15 minutes. The stations, two of them + the Hauptbahnhof are huge and look very expensive. Then when the train finally comes, it's one car only and plays this silly music.
Actually they are building the extension, but I'm not holding my breath they'll finish it in 2020, even though they've been building it for a couple of years already.
Actually they are building the extension, but I'm not holding my breath they'll finish it in 2020, even though they've been building it for a couple of years already.
Ironically they may be more reliable a while back my father did some consulting for the underground in London and apparently some of the pre-war equipment was more reliable than the newer stuff put in in the 1970's
Serious high quality engineering, manufacturing, maintenance and operations is some of the few genuine things left for engineers to feel proud and passionate about. Good work can stand the test of time and surpass cynical quick profit hacks.
The 1970s was a period where Britain was pretty poor. I'm not surprised if that equipment isn't very good.
2000s equipment, for example, should be just fine, and should last many decades.
2000s equipment, for example, should be just fine, and should last many decades.
well deeper into the article it mentions the line they are on seems to only serve connecting parliament with the main subway lines. to be honest its pretty typical arrangement for such work. promise a big route to serve needed areas but make damn sure it starts where those who wanted it.
but if it saves the authority money then it still is a good move, removes some of the gimmick feeling
but if it saves the authority money then it still is a good move, removes some of the gimmick feeling
Unfortunately, that's a bit of spin in the article. I have clipped the relevant part of the route network (http://imgur.com/a/OR4Ee) and the U55 (brown) connects Main Station (Hauptbahnhof) to Brandenburg Gate where it meets the main north - south light railway (dark green, pink). For reasons, this line doesn't have the best connectivity to Main Station, switching lines at Friedrichstraße is a chore, and U55 will be welcome for passengers of the north - south line.
In a couple of years, U55 will also connect to U2 and make it easier from passengers from some eastern districts to reach Main Station. It also will be the tourist line, connecting a lot of tourist sights in central Berlin.
There's a bit of background about the future gap closure here: http://www.projekt-u5.de/en/
In a couple of years, U55 will also connect to U2 and make it easier from passengers from some eastern districts to reach Main Station. It also will be the tourist line, connecting a lot of tourist sights in central Berlin.
There's a bit of background about the future gap closure here: http://www.projekt-u5.de/en/
The German parliament essentially has its own taxi service for the members to use within Berlin.
The only reason to use something else for transport, like a bicycle, is for political reasons.
Besides the parliament has no power over where subway lines in Berlin are built.
The only reason to use something else for transport, like a bicycle, is for political reasons.
Besides the parliament has no power over where subway lines in Berlin are built.
Using a bike for political reasons is a new one! Surely some of the more common reasons are valid - health, time saving, environmental concern?
Hardly.
Before the Brexit mess, several senior members of the British government (and other senior politicians) would cycle to Parliament, and make sure people knew about it.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2015/dec/2...
It's also a stereotype of particular type of man: living in SW London or around London, 40+, very high income. They used to buy sports cars, but anyone can afford that, much better to spend £4000 on a bike: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/mid-life-crisis-r...
Before the Brexit mess, several senior members of the British government (and other senior politicians) would cycle to Parliament, and make sure people knew about it.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2015/dec/2...
It's also a stereotype of particular type of man: living in SW London or around London, 40+, very high income. They used to buy sports cars, but anyone can afford that, much better to spend £4000 on a bike: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/mid-life-crisis-r...
Those are all good reasons to use a bike but if you use one as a politician (consider that Germany has a Green party that actually matters) it's also a way of showing "street cred", if you will.
It will certainly come across better to your voters than taking the limo to the train station (Berlin central station is 5 min by foot away from the parliament), which is supposedly a fairly common occurrence.
It will certainly come across better to your voters than taking the limo to the train station (Berlin central station is 5 min by foot away from the parliament), which is supposedly a fairly common occurrence.
It also seems to say at the end that they will only run for a few years..
I've only been to Berlin once, but the current carriages don't look particularly modern. I thought they were probably from the 50s. Evidently not. When were they made?
Berlin has some modern-looking train models, for example: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BVG-Baureihe_H
But yes, there is a lot of different models from different ages, and a lot of them have been refurbished at least once. I'm actually not surprised by this, considering how Berlin is spending billions on a hypothetical airport rather than on its actual trains.
But yes, there is a lot of different models from different ages, and a lot of them have been refurbished at least once. I'm actually not surprised by this, considering how Berlin is spending billions on a hypothetical airport rather than on its actual trains.
Oh, they spend money on trains, too. Or, at least, train-associated stuff.
Last time I went to Berlin (Three weeks ago), the papers were baffled to note that among the concerns addressed by the latest series of S-bahn trains, to be phased in shortly, was the doors closing-sound - which has been left unchanged for as long as I can remember (20 years or so.)
:)
Last time I went to Berlin (Three weeks ago), the papers were baffled to note that among the concerns addressed by the latest series of S-bahn trains, to be phased in shortly, was the doors closing-sound - which has been left unchanged for as long as I can remember (20 years or so.)
:)
It should be noted that the S-Bahn is operated by Deutsche Bahn (the national railway), while the U-Bahn is owned by the munipical transit service BVG. So funding for S-Bahn vs. U-Bahn will, at least up to a certain degree, come from different pockets.
Thanks for setting me straight - I was certain they were both operated by the BVG. You live and you learn...
I live in Berlin lately and I get the impression that the carriages are a mix of old and new. The newer ones have monitors to tell you about the next stops.
Many are made by Bombardier. Bombardier Transportation Global Headquarters is actually in Berlin; see http://www.bombardier.com/en/worldwide-presence/country.germ...
Many are made by Bombardier. Bombardier Transportation Global Headquarters is actually in Berlin; see http://www.bombardier.com/en/worldwide-presence/country.germ...
I wonder why don't more places do this. I mean surely the actual carriage of the train can be reused, but with just the engine refitted.
Until recently, Buenos Aires' A line still used original rolling stock from the 1910's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buenos_Aires_Underground#Natio...
(photo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Coche_La... )
(photo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Coche_La... )
The Market Street Railway [0] in San Francisco has a fleet of restored streetcars from around the world that run regular service on two trolley lines.
[0] http://www.streetcar.org/streetcars/
[0] http://www.streetcar.org/streetcars/
Rust and metal fatigue will wear out the chassis eventually.
If repairs become too frequent, fewer trains are available for use on any given day, which means not all services can be run.
Old carriages might not meet modern expectations of crashworthiness or fire resistance.
If repairs become too frequent, fewer trains are available for use on any given day, which means not all services can be run.
Old carriages might not meet modern expectations of crashworthiness or fire resistance.
Also noise and ride comfort. In Warsaw we have some really old Soviet subway cars and a mix of western/homegrown ones
While the bumpy ride is just a nuissance, the noise of those old junkers probably should require everyone to wear heavy hearing protection, if one had to adhere to workplace regulation.
When their crooked boogies start to screech and grind in turns, the noise is physically painful
While the bumpy ride is just a nuissance, the noise of those old junkers probably should require everyone to wear heavy hearing protection, if one had to adhere to workplace regulation.
When their crooked boogies start to screech and grind in turns, the noise is physically painful
> Old carriages might not meet modern expectations of crashworthiness or fire resistance.
Since we're talking about Berlin, the new airport had a similar problem: Because of all the delays and problems, the construction permit expired. And it could not just be reissued for the same plans because safety and energy conservation regulations had become tighter in the meantime. As far as I know, parliament extended the construction permit manually to avoid the replanning costs.
Since we're talking about Berlin, the new airport had a similar problem: Because of all the delays and problems, the construction permit expired. And it could not just be reissued for the same plans because safety and energy conservation regulations had become tighter in the meantime. As far as I know, parliament extended the construction permit manually to avoid the replanning costs.
Absolutely. In many places though, there isn't enough old-train stock left over. NYC did this http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhpj7eRuPN1qzt7h7o1_1280.j...
Melbourne did this a few years back; they bought back (for a princely sum) some carriages sold for a pittance a few years earlier to cover a shortage in rolling stock.
> I mean surely the actual carriage of the train can be reused, but with just the engine refitted.
Vivarail (http://www.vivarail.co.uk/) are doing almost exactly this in the UK with late-70s London Underground trains, fitting modern electronics and Ford truck engines as generators for the electric motors. I think it's a solid idea.
Vivarail (http://www.vivarail.co.uk/) are doing almost exactly this in the UK with late-70s London Underground trains, fitting modern electronics and Ford truck engines as generators for the electric motors. I think it's a solid idea.
Have Vivarail managed to find any customers yet? From an engineering point of view what they knocked together looked quite good, but for the UK market right now it's just a disaster. You can't spend billions upgrading London trains, and then suggest knocking together some franken-pacer out of London's scraps to replace the terrible units in the north and west-country.
Typically you'd also have to refit the train control system that communicates with the trackside equipment and the odometry system. On older trains you might run into problems because the brakes don't prevent locking and mess up the odometry so you'd have to refit those as well.
Nevertheless, there are plenty of really old trains still running. Service times of fourty years and more are the rule, not the exception.
Nevertheless, there are plenty of really old trains still running. Service times of fourty years and more are the rule, not the exception.
> Service times of fourty years and more are the rule, not the exception.
Is this different between trains and trams? In Dresden, our rolling stock of trams is between 10 and 20 years old (with half a dozen older trains reserved to cover high load situations), and the tram operator is already loudly thinking about ordering the next generation.
Is this different between trains and trams? In Dresden, our rolling stock of trams is between 10 and 20 years old (with half a dozen older trains reserved to cover high load situations), and the tram operator is already loudly thinking about ordering the next generation.
Lighter vehicles tend to have less durable construction. When it comes to low floor trams/railcars, the lack of space is another engineering problem. Plus, with a high-floor vehicle, you have lots of space during rebuilds to install newer power electronics and auxiliary equipment, in order to extend the service life. Regular heavy-rail, high floor metro EMUs can go for over half a century.
I wonder if these trains have air conditioning. Berlin might not need it, but if you had a subway train without air conditioning in NYC for example, the passengers would boil. So that might explain it.
They don't. I wouldn't say that people boil in the Berlin subway, but 40 degrees Celsius is often reached in the underground on hot summer days.
Being stuck in 40C in an enclosed space, with humidity... is crazy.
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New York City has continually been running its R32 trains since the 1960s, outlasting several newer trains:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R32_(New_York_City_Subway_car)
This shows that no design are olds , just a question of trend.
Always good too keep things from the past =D
FTA: "about as useful as a chocolate teapot"
I think it is fitting to uses trains from the 1950s in the U55.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pic3FnvUrY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvcpy4WjZMs