Ask HN: Why aren't there any good personal finance apps?
I am planning on buying software to track my expenses and income. I realized the only two realistic choices are mint.com and Quicken. Seems like a big market. Why aren't there more competitors?
26 comments
One of the big problems with financial data is there is no standard API to get data out of the financial institutions. Mint is a glorified site scraper. As a user you are giving mint your username and password to login and trust that they won't do anything malicious and that they will protect your data.
There are standard APIs, and in some countries they're coming into law to be offered this year.
Mint itself, like a lot of personal/SME finance apps, started out as a layer on top of Yodlee, or a similar service, at the time providing a technology/data layer for other apps to work with, so it was less giving passwords to apps, but having them pass-through to a heavy lifter. I agree giving passwords away is not wise, however.
I could talk for hours on on changes in APIs happening over the next couple of years here if you fancied. If you'd like to know more, just reply saying so and I can drop you a mail.
Mint itself, like a lot of personal/SME finance apps, started out as a layer on top of Yodlee, or a similar service, at the time providing a technology/data layer for other apps to work with, so it was less giving passwords to apps, but having them pass-through to a heavy lifter. I agree giving passwords away is not wise, however.
I could talk for hours on on changes in APIs happening over the next couple of years here if you fancied. If you'd like to know more, just reply saying so and I can drop you a mail.
I'd actually be curious to know some of this stuff. Email is my handle at gmail.
Even a standard CSV download would be a step up.
I'm pretty happy with YNAB, have been using it since September. People complain about having to manually add transactions but I find it helps keep you disciplined to a further extent.
Have been using https://goodbudget.com/ for almost 2 yrs. Clutter-free mobile apps, cloud storage and free account allows 2 moblie devices to sync. Very satisfied.
My wife and I have been using YNAB (You Need A Budget) for years now and absolutely LOVE it. It's truly been a game changer for us. Before we found YNAB I would've agreed with you, but now I point everyone to it.
I hated Mint, and Quicken, and Microsoft Money (back in the day), but for us YNAB really nails the sweet spot. It empowers you with your money without bogging you down.
I hated Mint, and Quicken, and Microsoft Money (back in the day), but for us YNAB really nails the sweet spot. It empowers you with your money without bogging you down.
I tried YNAB, but too focused on budgeting. I'm looking more for expense tracking and potentially cash flow forecast. I think the issue is that I don't exactly know what I'm looking for but Quicken and YNAB didn't work for me when I tried it.
How many hours a month do you spend on data entry of expenses? This has always been the biggest deterrent for me.
My time commitment varies, early on it's high, but then it's gone down to saner levels as I've used it more.
For purchases, I put in less than one minute per transaction (for data entry). For bills, I set them up as recurring scheduled transactions on the same day of each month. I then verify them when they become current, shifting the date or the amount as needed, takes a few seconds for each one. I've done the same with my income (reliable, salaried, paid bi-weekly).
I only track cash assets and CCs. My investments, retirement accounts, and other assets don't get tracked because I don't consider them part of my budget (though contributions to them are). So once a week (more early on, getting the hang of things), I go to my bank and CC websites and make sure I haven't missed any transactions, clear all the ones they show as cleared, and reconcile all accounts. This takes less than 5 minutes per account if done this frequently.
All told, I'm probably spending less than an hour a week in YNAB, and half of it is updating the budget itself as income comes in and needs to be allocated, or verifying that I have the money before making a purchase.
For purchases, I put in less than one minute per transaction (for data entry). For bills, I set them up as recurring scheduled transactions on the same day of each month. I then verify them when they become current, shifting the date or the amount as needed, takes a few seconds for each one. I've done the same with my income (reliable, salaried, paid bi-weekly).
I only track cash assets and CCs. My investments, retirement accounts, and other assets don't get tracked because I don't consider them part of my budget (though contributions to them are). So once a week (more early on, getting the hang of things), I go to my bank and CC websites and make sure I haven't missed any transactions, clear all the ones they show as cleared, and reconcile all accounts. This takes less than 5 minutes per account if done this frequently.
All told, I'm probably spending less than an hour a week in YNAB, and half of it is updating the budget itself as income comes in and needs to be allocated, or verifying that I have the money before making a purchase.
Have you looked at Gnu Cash (http://www.gnucash.org/features.phtml)? I'm not recommending it because I don't use it, but I've heard good things about it.
I am running QuickBooks business for my personal finances. I realise that it has some parts that are not needed, but it is good that I don't have to learn anything new. Also my accountant can directly see my finances to do a return if required.
I've had the same dilemma - the options right now are either to give a service access to your bank accounts, or manually track expenses in a spreadsheet.
I've been working on a POC type of project where instead of connecting to your bank account, the service would just parse the email alert that gets sent out any time your card/account is used.
There's more up-front work with setting up alerts for your accounts, but this way you get the benefits of automatic expense tracking without worrying about your bank credentials.
I've been working on a POC type of project where instead of connecting to your bank account, the service would just parse the email alert that gets sent out any time your card/account is used.
There's more up-front work with setting up alerts for your accounts, but this way you get the benefits of automatic expense tracking without worrying about your bank credentials.
Reconciliation should be done at some point.
I use Beancount, but there are several Plain Text alternatives here. http://plaintextaccounting.org
I have found this to be the best way for me to track my finances. I can easily get information from CSVs that I download and am able to use plain text and tools surrounding that (snippets, python scripts) in quite an effective manner.
I have found this to be the best way for me to track my finances. I can easily get information from CSVs that I download and am able to use plain text and tools surrounding that (snippets, python scripts) in quite an effective manner.
Ledger (ledger-cli.org) is very flexible and powerful. It doesn't have a UI, though, which could be why it's not as popular.
I thought about this a lot, and I have worked for and with a variety of consumer finance companies.
I would say the number one reason most consumer finance software suck (especially mobile apps for budgeting or aggregation) is because they try to tackle social problems with technical solutions.
My experience of developing, securing and working with these apps is that, for the most part, they quickly reach a cap on how effective they can be without becoming very opinionated. Most apps could use more opinionated money management features. Instead, you have a hundred apps in a very crowded space, all of which try to solve your inability to budget your money effectively with a polished UI and more information than you'll reasonably use.
I would say the number one reason most consumer finance software suck (especially mobile apps for budgeting or aggregation) is because they try to tackle social problems with technical solutions.
My experience of developing, securing and working with these apps is that, for the most part, they quickly reach a cap on how effective they can be without becoming very opinionated. Most apps could use more opinionated money management features. Instead, you have a hundred apps in a very crowded space, all of which try to solve your inability to budget your money effectively with a polished UI and more information than you'll reasonably use.
I'd love to hear some ideas about almost excessively opinionated designs for this stuff.
There is an access to data issue. This is a trust issue from the user side and a competition/regulation issue on the banking provider side.
Ideally the gap shouldn't exist because enough people are clamoring for these services, Asset Management the umbrella term is a high touch activity and the banks and managers make a killing by going after high net worth individuals.
A lot of startups especially after the chatbot and AI craze are working on this issue.
Let's say a startup comes up with a solution, would you trust them with access to your bank account?
Ideally the gap shouldn't exist because enough people are clamoring for these services, Asset Management the umbrella term is a high touch activity and the banks and managers make a killing by going after high net worth individuals.
A lot of startups especially after the chatbot and AI craze are working on this issue.
Let's say a startup comes up with a solution, would you trust them with access to your bank account?
Let's face it , the decentralized ledger folks have a nice moat on these ideas.
Blockchain tech would default enable this kind of thing
I personally love using http://www.spendee.com/. It is simple (maybe too much for someone though), fast and has a sleek UI. They recently launched bank accounts syncing but I haven’t tested it yet since I prefer to add my expenses manually :)
It looks like it can be very good, but doesn't integrate with Simple and Robinhood. :(
I've been toying around with the idea for an app that allows you to create virtual bank accounts on top of your traditional bank accounts. This way you could organize your money/investments according to its use (eg. Travel savings, house down payment, pizza money, etc). Anyone think this would be useful?
The issue with banking apps isn't the app itself, it is getting the data and connecting to banks.
If you are serious about this, I would look into Plaid but I would probably recommend VC funding because I am sure integration isn't cheap (if other providers are anything to go off; they cost thousands per month)
If you are serious about this, I would look into Plaid but I would probably recommend VC funding because I am sure integration isn't cheap (if other providers are anything to go off; they cost thousands per month)
You can get gnucash for free.
That aside there are hundreds of competitors. It has to be the most saturated software market.
That aside there are hundreds of competitors. It has to be the most saturated software market.
There are actually many such as Albert, Penny, Clarity Money and Level Money