Nintendo Discontinues the NES Classic Edition(ign.com)
ign.com
Nintendo Discontinues the NES Classic Edition
http://ign.com/articles/2017/04/13/nintendo-discontinues-the-nes-classic-edition
164 comments
If true that would be a really creative way of making some nice profits. Typically distributors are anxious to dump excess EOL parts as demand will plummet. According to my friend who was an account manager at Wyle they would sell off their stock to one of the 'old part finders' for 1/2 to 1/4 of the previous suggested price.
If Nintendo proactively found a bunch of EOL parts they could make a nice limited edition product out of, the buy the parts at a steep discount, sell the 'limited edition' at a price premium, and maximize their gross margin. Frankly I've never met a procurement manager with the guts to do something like that but I'm sure they are out there.
If Nintendo proactively found a bunch of EOL parts they could make a nice limited edition product out of, the buy the parts at a steep discount, sell the 'limited edition' at a price premium, and maximize their gross margin. Frankly I've never met a procurement manager with the guts to do something like that but I'm sure they are out there.
While not an exact example, it matches GameBoy creator Gunpei Yokoi's concept of "Lateral Thinking with Withered Technology." The idea is that you find widely understood tech, which is inexpensive due to its widespread use in other areas, and find a way to use it in making games. Everything from using calculator LED displays for the Game & Watch to using an accelerometer in a Wii Remote follows that principle.
Sourcing a bunch of inexpensive parts and throwing together something like the NES Classic Edition to fill the gap in an otherwise Nintendo-less holiday season seems to fit that mantra.
Yokoi made some of the first toys (for personal enjoyment, out of spare parts in a factory) which, when Nintendo's young president Yamauchi saw them, convinced him to really commit to the consumer toy space.
Sourcing a bunch of inexpensive parts and throwing together something like the NES Classic Edition to fill the gap in an otherwise Nintendo-less holiday season seems to fit that mantra.
Yokoi made some of the first toys (for personal enjoyment, out of spare parts in a factory) which, when Nintendo's young president Yamauchi saw them, convinced him to really commit to the consumer toy space.
Cellphone screens for VR is a more recent example of this.
Yeah, but it seems like Nintendo could just move to a slightly newer SoC (say the Allwinner H3) with the same software stack and keep putting these out at a $2 premium to cover the more expensive SoC.
A similar board to what was in the NES Classic, the OrangePi One, is $9.99 retail, and I'm sure Nintendo could put in under 20hrs of work total to add what they need to the board and stay within a dollar or two of that board's price point.
A similar board to what was in the NES Classic, the OrangePi One, is $9.99 retail, and I'm sure Nintendo could put in under 20hrs of work total to add what they need to the board and stay within a dollar or two of that board's price point.
20 hours of work? Are you kidding me? You are going to need to spin the PCB, re-validate signal integrity, deal with the situation of purchasing over 100k of the part, re-tool your manufacturing setup, make whatever software changes are required and re-validate SW, and probably a whole lot of other things.
These are the same kind of delusional people who think Twitter is a weekend project.
And in LED projectors.
The only question is why aren't there chinese made FullHD LED projectors in the cheaper price range?
Maybe as people still buy the 320x200, 800x400 and HD (1280x800) LED projectors. It would take one chinese manufacturer to change the cycle, if he releases a 1920x1080 FullHD LED projector for $300 or less.
The only question is why aren't there chinese made FullHD LED projectors in the cheaper price range?
Maybe as people still buy the 320x200, 800x400 and HD (1280x800) LED projectors. It would take one chinese manufacturer to change the cycle, if he releases a 1920x1080 FullHD LED projector for $300 or less.
>an accelerometer in a Wii Remote
I don't think this is the best example, accelerometers were not a cheap common part at the time. The Wii predates the iPhone, MEMS accelerometers were not anywhere near as widely deployed as they are now and they cost an order of magnitude or two more.
I can remember hobbyists buying Wii Remotes after launch just to rip out the sensors :)
IMO, perfect example is the B&W LCD on the original DMG Gameboy. A generation behind the competition, but cheap and low-power for the time.
I don't think this is the best example, accelerometers were not a cheap common part at the time. The Wii predates the iPhone, MEMS accelerometers were not anywhere near as widely deployed as they are now and they cost an order of magnitude or two more.
I can remember hobbyists buying Wii Remotes after launch just to rip out the sensors :)
IMO, perfect example is the B&W LCD on the original DMG Gameboy. A generation behind the competition, but cheap and low-power for the time.
Definitely not as widely deployed as now, but I believe they were widespread in laptops to allow shutoff of harddrives during fall detection.
The Wii was one of the projects where another company came to them with an idea (of motion controls), IIRC.
The Wii Remote is more an example of Iwata's Blue Ocean strategy.
The rest of the Wii hardware however..
The rest of the Wii hardware however..
A Gamecube with an extra chip...
Exactly, nobody said that proven and established hardware couldn't be your own hardware after all
and that's why Nintendo hardware is a letdown -- instead of designing ideal experiences, they take solutions and go hunting for problems.
But are the games a letdown? That's probably the question you need to ask...
lucasmullens(3)
The component grey market is alive and well. If they got 25-50% of the previous sales price then the guy who bought it should be fired. My business that lasted for 6 years and broke 7 figures in a couple of those years paid between 6 and 10 cents on the dollar from Flextronics, Emerson, foxconn and others. On occasion there would be an eol part in the lot that they would buy back at 5x the original price for ongoing repair work years later.
It dosent really make sense though, its not like engineering a replacement SOC+board that contains some NES roms plus an emulator is exactly a massive engineering challenge. Why not just continue it with some new chips?
> its not like engineering a replacement SOC+board that contains some NES roms plus an emulator is exactly a massive engineering challenge
If margins on a custom SOC+board are razor-thin, it would be idiocy from the company's pov to add cost and complexity to a project just to result in a decimation of the product's profitability.
If margins on a custom SOC+board are razor-thin, it would be idiocy from the company's pov to add cost and complexity to a project just to result in a decimation of the product's profitability.
I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't already have a team working on it's successor: an internet connected mini console that only plays virtual console games off their store. You could even have a custom common plug on the front and sell a bunch of generations of controllers for some obscene amount of money and know that their'd be a lot of people who'd get four each of at least NES, SNES, and N64 controllers. $40 a pop and that's $480 right there.
Although it's Nintendo and they're kind of known for not catching some of the easy throws.
Although it's Nintendo and they're kind of known for not catching some of the easy throws.
I bet they are going to focus on getting the Switch Virtual console up and running and guide people that way.
Maybe they found that producing more on newer chips was too costly and it would make more sense to just sell retro controllers for the Switch and allow emulation in their marketplace to sell older games from NES and SNES, etc.
I'm surprised that even in that case, they wouldn't just iterate on components and then come out with it again once they've managed to debug any fun quirks that come from trying to iterate on the hardware and got fabbing capacity ramped up.
On the other hand, Nintendo's been burned before by apparently-boundless demand for, say, the Wii U, and then incredibly sharp dropoff, so they might just be going heavily conservative on the possible profit/possible cost to update.
On the other hand, Nintendo's been burned before by apparently-boundless demand for, say, the Wii U, and then incredibly sharp dropoff, so they might just be going heavily conservative on the possible profit/possible cost to update.
If they can iterate, increase the value (more games? SNES? Gameboy? etc) and "fix" the DRM "issue" (Ability to hack it... I know that's gotta be burning them up)...
I mean, the more trivial way to lock it down would be to have a truly read-only OS partition, rather than apparently trying slightly (based on my quick skimming of the ways to manipulate the device).
That would forbid dynamic updates (which would let them play cat-and-mouse with fixing holes, if they were so inclined), but would also avoid most things that would require replacing the OS stack.
e: They also clearly knew they weren't building a fortress, given the note buried in the image of "Many efforts, tears and countless hours have been put into this jewel. So, please keep this place tidied up and don't break everything!"
That would forbid dynamic updates (which would let them play cat-and-mouse with fixing holes, if they were so inclined), but would also avoid most things that would require replacing the OS stack.
e: They also clearly knew they weren't building a fortress, given the note buried in the image of "Many efforts, tears and countless hours have been put into this jewel. So, please keep this place tidied up and don't break everything!"
i'd not heard that. but the way it was marketed always seemed to me to be another small experiment in nintendo's non-stop attempts to artificially limit supply. they seemed to use it to test word of mouth and their viral marketing abilities ready for the switch.
I've heard the 2DS was somewhat similar in being based on unused parts for Wii U controllers. That'd also explain the otherwise bizarre move to stop selling such an unexpectedly popular product.
How disappointing. I was hoping Nintendo was taking a lesson from Steam: if you make it stupid easy to pay and play games then people will pay for them. NES Classic was a way to, legally, play a whole bunch of old Nintendo games without resorting to cheap emulators and pirated games that many, many gamers resort to.
I'm hoping they're going to re-release this in the near future or something similar that is at a similar price point but let's you play a back catalog of NES, SNES and N64 games. If they had a legal way for me to do that I would pick it up in a heart beat.
I guess the alternative is offering all these classic games on the Switch but is the target audience really the same? A $300 handheld versus a $60 dedicated classic TV console?
I also wonder if Nintendo could destroy the market of cheap / gimmicky consoles that you can buy for like $50 that include "150 games!". Release something that anyone can afford, hook it up to an e-store and let game devs release cheap games on it. It would be like hooking up the N64 / SNES / NES consoles with online services.
I think I rambled a little bit but hopefully it made sense.
I'm hoping they're going to re-release this in the near future or something similar that is at a similar price point but let's you play a back catalog of NES, SNES and N64 games. If they had a legal way for me to do that I would pick it up in a heart beat.
I guess the alternative is offering all these classic games on the Switch but is the target audience really the same? A $300 handheld versus a $60 dedicated classic TV console?
I also wonder if Nintendo could destroy the market of cheap / gimmicky consoles that you can buy for like $50 that include "150 games!". Release something that anyone can afford, hook it up to an e-store and let game devs release cheap games on it. It would be like hooking up the N64 / SNES / NES consoles with online services.
I think I rambled a little bit but hopefully it made sense.
Nintendo is run by old men who will not do anything different. Trying to get Nintendo to change is a laborious task, requiring everyone to be on board with it.[0] Combine it with their copyright, trademark, and Youtube monetization policies, if it had it's way, Nintendo would love having no one play with their toys.
Mr. Sterling has preached about Nintendo many times before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRicuKHmjZA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_vGe68T6sM
[0] http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/21/7867965/conservative-stuffy...
> "Nintendo is not only a Japanese company, it is a Kyoto-based company," he said, replying to a question about the difficulty of effecting change at Nintendo. "For people who aren't familiar, Kyoto-based are to Japanese companies as Japanese companies are to U.S. companies. They're very traditional, and very focused on hierarchy and group decision making. Unfortunately, that creates a culture where everyone is an advisor and no one is a decision maker, but almost everyone has veto power."
Mr. Sterling has preached about Nintendo many times before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRicuKHmjZA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_vGe68T6sM
[0] http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/21/7867965/conservative-stuffy...
> "Nintendo is not only a Japanese company, it is a Kyoto-based company," he said, replying to a question about the difficulty of effecting change at Nintendo. "For people who aren't familiar, Kyoto-based are to Japanese companies as Japanese companies are to U.S. companies. They're very traditional, and very focused on hierarchy and group decision making. Unfortunately, that creates a culture where everyone is an advisor and no one is a decision maker, but almost everyone has veto power."
> Nintendo is run by old men who will not do anything different.
You've posted that comment on a marketing move out of left field that happened to be extremely effective.
You've posted that comment on a marketing move out of left field that happened to be extremely effective.
While I'm tempted to make a blanket statement that "tradition is the bane of progress," I think in this case it's a little more nuanced.
Nintendo needs a competitor. Sony and Microsoft are competitors of each other; Nintendo has not been in that fight for over a decade now.
I'd be hard pressed to define exactly what Nintendo is, though, and what kind of competitor it needs.
Nintendo needs a competitor. Sony and Microsoft are competitors of each other; Nintendo has not been in that fight for over a decade now.
I'd be hard pressed to define exactly what Nintendo is, though, and what kind of competitor it needs.
Nintendo is three companies operating as one brand. It is a hardware design shop. It is a game production studio. It is an international marketing agency.
Sega is the one who comes to mind. But there's a reason they got out of hardware and I doubt they'd get back into it.
I'd argue that Nintendo's biggest competitors are the iPhone and Android game markets.
I don't see why they don't release a "Mini steam" that allows nes/snes/n64/gameCube/wii games to be purchased and run on a pc via an official/bundled emulator.
> I also wonder if Nintendo could destroy the market of cheap / gimmicky consoles that you can buy for like $50 that include "150 games!". Release something that anyone can afford, hook it up to an e-store and let game devs release cheap games on it. It would be like hooking up the N64 / SNES / NES consoles with online services.
I mean, really, a million companies have tried it and found it didn't work. You'd have to really bank on Nintendo name recognition to think there is a chance.
I mean, really, a million companies have tried it and found it didn't work. You'd have to really bank on Nintendo name recognition to think there is a chance.
> I mean, really, a million companies have tried it and found it didn't work. You'd have to really bank on Nintendo name recognition to think there is a chance.
I agree and I think it would really work for Nintendo because they actually have tons of older games people would want whereas many of the attempts in the past offered only indie or no-name games.
In my opinion Nintendo is literally the only company that could pull it off.
I agree and I think it would really work for Nintendo because they actually have tons of older games people would want whereas many of the attempts in the past offered only indie or no-name games.
In my opinion Nintendo is literally the only company that could pull it off.
Lots of companies would a great back catalogue if not for the fact that Nintendo convinced them that emulation is only legal if they do it.
Nintendo makes the most confusing business decisions.
This reminds me of Disney releasing one of their classic films for a limited time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Vault)
In the future if Nintendo were to re-release the NES Classic (or a SNES Classic) the demand, hype and publicity would be astronomical.
In the future if Nintendo were to re-release the NES Classic (or a SNES Classic) the demand, hype and publicity would be astronomical.
> This reminds me of Disney releasing one of their classic films for a limited time
I believe that decision almost killed Disney—they stopped making new films, and they made their classic films difficult or impossible to come by, and ended up with kids that didn't know or care who any of their characters were. I'm glad they turned that one around.
I believe that decision almost killed Disney—they stopped making new films, and they made their classic films difficult or impossible to come by, and ended up with kids that didn't know or care who any of their characters were. I'm glad they turned that one around.
The only possible explanation I can think of is that a replacement product is in the works (e.g, wider game selection, SNES support, downloadable games, etc). Otherwise... WTF.
They really have the worst supply chain out there. A bunch of people I know wanted this and/or the Switch. These are casual gamers who may not care later.
To be fair to Nintendo, the Switch was their fastest-selling console ever over the first few days; that level of demand is the best/worst case scenario at the same time, and you can only produce more consoles so fast.
They knew what the demand looked like months in advance from preorders. And now it's more than a month past release and they still can't keep stores supplied. At some point, the difference between "we're so surprised!" and "our logistics suck" kind of disappears.
I think you might be underestimating the front running required to make hardware at scale. There isn't just a "build more faster" switch they can flip.
There is, however, a "Release later to ensure we have some stock backfilled" option.
This isn't Nintendo's first super-popular product after all, at some point it boils down to them not caring enough to invest in their supply chain to keep enough stock on the shelves. Stores receiving five consoles at a time is a joke.
This isn't Nintendo's first super-popular product after all, at some point it boils down to them not caring enough to invest in their supply chain to keep enough stock on the shelves. Stores receiving five consoles at a time is a joke.
Yup. This is one of those "9 women having a baby in 1 month" things.
All Nintendo needs to do is make playing older games as easy as opening up Emuparadise and clicking a few buttons.
High prices, not being able to play some SNES games available for the Wii on the 3DS (wtf, just let play FFVI on the go), poor library (I know, licenses, but still), etc. make feel like they don't care.
High prices, not being able to play some SNES games available for the Wii on the 3DS (wtf, just let play FFVI on the go), poor library (I know, licenses, but still), etc. make feel like they don't care.
That product is called the Switch.
The Switch has a lesser appeal than a $50 box that has a lifetime of nostalgia.
Not for everybody, and not for most people I'd wager.
The Switch doesn't have any NES or SNES games for it at all.
*yet
I would be shocked if the Virtual Console wasn't running on the Switch by the end of the year.
I would be shocked if the Virtual Console wasn't running on the Switch by the end of the year.
rumor mill suggests as early as this summer
I know right?! Either that, or they know something I don't. They could probably make a lot more from selling these. It's like they don't need it and want to keep it limited in numbers, which doesn't rhyme with how many original NES' were sold and how OK they were with that. :)
Or maybe they want to start selling NES titles on the Switch and they don't want to compete with themselves or something?
Or maybe they want to start selling NES titles on the Switch and they don't want to compete with themselves or something?
You'd expect some virtual console on the Switch but that is still missing the point of the NES Classic, which is cheap enough to be an impulse buy or a gift, and cashes in on the nostalgia of an entire generation.
I know a lot of people who haven't played video games since they were kids who wanted the NES Classic, it has a unique appeal.
I know a lot of people who haven't played video games since they were kids who wanted the NES Classic, it has a unique appeal.
> they know something I don't
Am I weird for thinking that it's very likely that an entire company with over 100 years of experience _does_ know something that you don't?
Am I weird for thinking that it's very likely that an entire company with over 100 years of experience _does_ know something that you don't?
Well, they can think they know something that isn't true anymore. I've seen it before at companies, the circumstances leading up to their success are often repeated as sacrosanct steps not to be questioned.
If only it worked that way. Besides, Wii U anyone? They have plenty of recent fumbles we could bring up.
Anytime I see Switch mentioned, I think about nintendo's ol' switcheroo 22 years ago that ultimately outdid nintendo.
Are you referring to the Pokemon Company?
More likely the Sony drive for SNES that they scrapped and Sony made into the playstation.
Yes, it's my favorite story.
tl;dr: Sony gets backstabbed by Nintendo, proceeds to destroy them in their own staple industry for the next few decades by releasing Sony Playstation.
tl;dr: Sony gets backstabbed by Nintendo, proceeds to destroy them in their own staple industry for the next few decades by releasing Sony Playstation.
It's important to understand that some business decisions aren't based off of money. Sometimes they are based on the emotions of the people working at the company.
Like a TV network cancelling a series with good ratings because an executive wants to put something else in it's slot to further his legacy.
Or a company hiring and promoting someone unqualified because they remind the director of themselves earlier in life.
Or a game company ending a successful series because the head of software was tired of making it.
Like a TV network cancelling a series with good ratings because an executive wants to put something else in it's slot to further his legacy.
Or a company hiring and promoting someone unqualified because they remind the director of themselves earlier in life.
Or a game company ending a successful series because the head of software was tired of making it.
I've always heard of Nintendo that they only cared for the Japan market and that all else was simply an happy side effect.
Releasing it or discontinuing it?
Discontinuation makes sense, because that console was a dead end, you couldn't add more games etc, so IMO it was more of a novelty.
As for releasing, it would be better if they make it not a dead end product.
Someone mentioned here that many chips using there were already EOL when it was released, so maybe this was a creative way to get rid of some components and make money out of them that otherwise they would throw away?
Discontinuation makes sense, because that console was a dead end, you couldn't add more games etc, so IMO it was more of a novelty.
As for releasing, it would be better if they make it not a dead end product.
Someone mentioned here that many chips using there were already EOL when it was released, so maybe this was a creative way to get rid of some components and make money out of them that otherwise they would throw away?
> Discontinuation makes sense, because that console was a dead end, you couldn't add more games etc, so IMO it was more of a novelty.
That doesn't make much sense. Not everyone who currently wants one has got one. They're absolutely flying off shelves. You wouldn't discontinue something like that because it's "a novelty."
That doesn't make much sense. Not everyone who currently wants one has got one. They're absolutely flying off shelves. You wouldn't discontinue something like that because it's "a novelty."
You would, if you would run out of components to build them.
All I'm saying is that when they came up with it, they planned it to be a dead end, e.g. fixed number of games, no ability to purchase games (either physically or download from internet), build using components that are EOL and no longer being produced...
All I'm saying is that when they came up with it, they planned it to be a dead end, e.g. fixed number of games, no ability to purchase games (either physically or download from internet), build using components that are EOL and no longer being produced...
A "novelty" with massive demand and no supply. I don't get your logic.
I think they'll bring it back later for maximum kitsch value like McDonald's does with the McRib.
Exactly this.
Nintendo and Twitter are extremely similar. Twitter lucked into an AAA product, and management hasn't been able to leverage it to anything like the Facebook competitor it should have been.
Nintendo lucked into hiring a game design genius (Miyamoto) who also happened to be a great mentor and producer, meaning they've had a steady stream of AAA games for 30+ years.
If either one of these companies had great CEOs, they would easily be dominating their respective industries.
Nintendo and Twitter are extremely similar. Twitter lucked into an AAA product, and management hasn't been able to leverage it to anything like the Facebook competitor it should have been.
Nintendo lucked into hiring a game design genius (Miyamoto) who also happened to be a great mentor and producer, meaning they've had a steady stream of AAA games for 30+ years.
If either one of these companies had great CEOs, they would easily be dominating their respective industries.
Nintendo is a 127 year old company. Pretty sure they didn't stagnate for 100 years before finally hitting their stride with Miyamoto.
70 years of being a family-owned, regional playing-card company is pretty much the definition of stagnation.
Hiroshi Yamauchi deserves credit for having the vision to expand into electronic games, but nothing they did before Miyamoto could truly be considered a market-shaping event.
Other than switching to electronics and hiring Miyamoto, Yamauchi was a middling CEO at best.
Super Mario is one of the most recognizable characters in the world. The NES sold 60 million units. The SNES sold 50 million units.
If a great CEO had been running Nintendo at any point since ~1983, Nintendo would be Disney right now.
Hiroshi Yamauchi deserves credit for having the vision to expand into electronic games, but nothing they did before Miyamoto could truly be considered a market-shaping event.
Other than switching to electronics and hiring Miyamoto, Yamauchi was a middling CEO at best.
Super Mario is one of the most recognizable characters in the world. The NES sold 60 million units. The SNES sold 50 million units.
If a great CEO had been running Nintendo at any point since ~1983, Nintendo would be Disney right now.
Nintendo has had several great CEOs who are no longer with us.
From the moment this was launched I had wanted to buy one but never could find one in stock at MSRP. Eventually just built a RetroPie box :/
How hard was it to build? Any tips?
I started from here: https://retropie.org.uk/
It was actually quite simple. Starting from opening the box on the RPi, that I'd never touched before, being kind of a Linux moron, and tracking down the necessary hardware (an old TV and USB joystick, and some networking stuff), I had it running in just a couple of hours.
The only thing that slowed me down at all was figuring out how to copy ROM files onto it through the network.
It was actually quite simple. Starting from opening the box on the RPi, that I'd never touched before, being kind of a Linux moron, and tracking down the necessary hardware (an old TV and USB joystick, and some networking stuff), I had it running in just a couple of hours.
The only thing that slowed me down at all was figuring out how to copy ROM files onto it through the network.
Along with what everyone else said (I've set up retropie, follow the instructions and aside from some quirks it's easy), there's a handful of 3d printed cases you can get for that extra retro feel. Here's a few examples, some people offer for purchase: https://all3dp.com/raspberry-pi-nintendo-nes-case/
It's fairly straightforward, even if you've never set up a RPi before. Once you set up the SD card, it is all GUI based. I'd recommend a RPi3, USB controller(s) (Xbox controllers work great) and a case.
https://retropie.org.uk/
https://retropie.org.uk/
I just set it up on my Intel NUC and it was quite easy (particularly if you have some basic Linux experience - running scripts etc.). I even managed to get my PS4 and Switch Pro controllers hooked up via BT.
Nintendo certainly makes it difficult to consistently play their old titles.
It's actually super easy.
Just go to the pirate bay and download an emulator.
Just go to the pirate bay and download an emulator.
To legally play their old titles then.
And anyways, that's not Nintendo making it easy, that's the people who build emulators and rip ROMs making it easy.
And anyways, that's not Nintendo making it easy, that's the people who build emulators and rip ROMs making it easy.
I don't generally condone piracy. But I also believe that when a company makes it hard to enjoy their games, or tries to milk money out of games that are 30 years old, that I've probably paid for several times over the years, then I don't care anymore. If even .1% of Nintendo's revenue comes from NES/SNES games, then they are doing it VERY wrong. And if it's less, I don't feel bad because I know I'm not ruining some market segment.
I had an NES as a kid, rebought an NES in college with most of my childhood games, and bought quite a few games on Wii virtual console. These games arent easily portable, take up a lot of space, and I'm not even sure how to hook an NES up to a modern TV offhand. NES won't give me simplicity for the games I've paid for, so by definition of terrible copyright laws, I resort to "piracy". And while im there, theres other games i always wanted to try as a kid, that nintendo will make difficult for me to play (heck, if I went to piracy for legally owned games, why would games i dont own be any easier). It's a vicious cycle.
steam has demonstrated that you can easily cut piracy simply by making things readily available and easy to use. dont give people incentive and then complain about it.
I had an NES as a kid, rebought an NES in college with most of my childhood games, and bought quite a few games on Wii virtual console. These games arent easily portable, take up a lot of space, and I'm not even sure how to hook an NES up to a modern TV offhand. NES won't give me simplicity for the games I've paid for, so by definition of terrible copyright laws, I resort to "piracy". And while im there, theres other games i always wanted to try as a kid, that nintendo will make difficult for me to play (heck, if I went to piracy for legally owned games, why would games i dont own be any easier). It's a vicious cycle.
steam has demonstrated that you can easily cut piracy simply by making things readily available and easy to use. dont give people incentive and then complain about it.
> I'm not even sure how to hook an NES up to a modern TV offhand.
The original NES had RCA composite output (plus audio) - so all you'd need is a composite-to-HDMI adaptor, like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Portta-Composite-Converter-Scaler-sup...
For something like the Sega Genesis (not that you wondered), it also had composite output, but needed a "special" mini-DIN cable; the pinout is out there, and an RCA jack can be soldered in place if you wanted. Also, the same jack (IIRC) served up S-VIDEO, so you could use that instead (S-VIDEO to HDMI).
If all you had was RF output (like for an Atari 2600) - you could do a RF-to-Composite converter, then from that into a Composite-to-HDMI converter.
Where you might run into problems on all of these solutions are those areas where artifacting was used on-screen to generate false colors; sometimes the converters will strip that out (their conversion is too good), or the TV will (same thing, plus LCD vs CRT tech).
The original NES had RCA composite output (plus audio) - so all you'd need is a composite-to-HDMI adaptor, like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Portta-Composite-Converter-Scaler-sup...
For something like the Sega Genesis (not that you wondered), it also had composite output, but needed a "special" mini-DIN cable; the pinout is out there, and an RCA jack can be soldered in place if you wanted. Also, the same jack (IIRC) served up S-VIDEO, so you could use that instead (S-VIDEO to HDMI).
If all you had was RF output (like for an Atari 2600) - you could do a RF-to-Composite converter, then from that into a Composite-to-HDMI converter.
Where you might run into problems on all of these solutions are those areas where artifacting was used on-screen to generate false colors; sometimes the converters will strip that out (their conversion is too good), or the TV will (same thing, plus LCD vs CRT tech).
Fwiw, genesis does composite or rgb, not svideo. RGB didn't really happen in the states though (component video is sort of rgb, but tweaked so macrovison works)
Those adapters are fine now, but what about in 10 years when it's even harder to find a working NES? 20? 50? At some point there will be no more working systems and cartridges, but because of the efforts of pirates these games can and probably will live forever.
There are alternatives like the Analogue NT which is fully compatible with the entire Nintendo library, including Flash carts like the PowerPak and Everdrive. It has a built-in Four Score. It supports Component and HDMI output. It has a built in hardware upscaler. It supports wireless controllers with no input latency, light guns, and basically any 3rd party controller ever made. It also has a Famicom slot, so it'll play both NES and Famicom cartridges without adapters. It has the Famicom expansion port as well, so it'll even play Famicom Disk System games. It is the Nintendo completely reverse engineered using an Altera Cyclone V FPGA to emulate the hardware in hardware.
Granted, it's $450, but it plays your games perfectly, and on your modern hardware in ways that an original NES couldn't without RGB modding a top-loader and getting a separate upscaler.
I'm a retro speedrunner, and I intend on getting one later this year rather than modding my 30-year old NES (which I self-refurbish) and buying an upscaler and having a nest of cables.
Hobbyists are making some amazing stuff. Someone is currently making component cables that work with your SNES, as well as ones for the Sega Genesis and Sega Saturn. I'm on the waiting list to pounce when the next batch arrives. It's like classic cars. In the 60s no one cared. In the 80s and 90s people built businesses to fill the niche and take all the money being left on the table.
Granted, it's $450, but it plays your games perfectly, and on your modern hardware in ways that an original NES couldn't without RGB modding a top-loader and getting a separate upscaler.
I'm a retro speedrunner, and I intend on getting one later this year rather than modding my 30-year old NES (which I self-refurbish) and buying an upscaler and having a nest of cables.
Hobbyists are making some amazing stuff. Someone is currently making component cables that work with your SNES, as well as ones for the Sega Genesis and Sega Saturn. I'm on the waiting list to pounce when the next batch arrives. It's like classic cars. In the 60s no one cared. In the 80s and 90s people built businesses to fill the niche and take all the money being left on the table.
I know hardcore retro gamers consider "on hardware" and "on emulator" to be separate categories. I remember getting super mario world to memory jump to the credits on actual hardware was a big thing.
Where does Analogue NT fit in there? That's not ORIGINAL hardware. It could technically have different quirks that means minor differences could play out. That puts it more in the emulator category right?
Where does Analogue NT fit in there? That's not ORIGINAL hardware. It could technically have different quirks that means minor differences could play out. That puts it more in the emulator category right?
> It could technically have different quirks that means minor differences could play out.
That could just as easily describe the NES-101 or SNS-101. You can always find some difference if you look hard enough, even with original hardware (hardcore SNES and Neo Geo players care a lot about a console's serial number; a few Commodore 64 fans and musicians care about the date code on a SID chip). In principle, you're correct. In practice, I think you'll have a hard time finding anyone who's genuinely pickier about NES accuracy than Kevin Horton.
That could just as easily describe the NES-101 or SNS-101. You can always find some difference if you look hard enough, even with original hardware (hardcore SNES and Neo Geo players care a lot about a console's serial number; a few Commodore 64 fans and musicians care about the date code on a SID chip). In principle, you're correct. In practice, I think you'll have a hard time finding anyone who's genuinely pickier about NES accuracy than Kevin Horton.
It emulates the NES perfectly, since it exactly emulates the NES hardware on more powerful modern hardware. Every glitch will work exactly as it does on an actual NES. That was their goal. A few places have reviewed it to ensure the glitches work as expected -- sure enough, they do.
They had some of the most hardcore folks in the emulation community included in the development. The guys who designed it wanted it to be reference quality. It supports all the options of every NES made, including full support for custom sound chips (like FDS versions of Castlevania 3, which sound amazing), and stuff like the PowerPak and Everdrive -- because to the game, it IS the NES.
It's exactly why I'm getting one myself. As a speedrunner, reference quality (whether on hardware or software) is a requirement for me to have my world records be considered legit.
They had some of the most hardcore folks in the emulation community included in the development. The guys who designed it wanted it to be reference quality. It supports all the options of every NES made, including full support for custom sound chips (like FDS versions of Castlevania 3, which sound amazing), and stuff like the PowerPak and Everdrive -- because to the game, it IS the NES.
It's exactly why I'm getting one myself. As a speedrunner, reference quality (whether on hardware or software) is a requirement for me to have my world records be considered legit.
That works for me. I wasnt trying to discredit the machine, I was asking with genuine curiosity, since I knew that there was a difference between emulators and "reference" hardware. Cheers :)
> If even .1% of Nintendo's revenue comes from NES/SNES games, then they are doing it VERY wrong.
Why? What's wrong about Nintendo continuing to monetize their old IP, which is still apparently in high demand? If anything, Nintendo managing to continue making money off of these old games is impressive.
Why? What's wrong about Nintendo continuing to monetize their old IP, which is still apparently in high demand? If anything, Nintendo managing to continue making money off of these old games is impressive.
After a certain point, the IP should enter the public domain. Traditionally, this would occur after a decade or two, but thanks to heavy lobbying by Disney, I doubt I will ever see Mickey the Mouse in someone else's cartoon :(
Why should a company be able to strangle the cultural development of our society in the name of greed?
Why should a company be able to strangle the cultural development of our society in the name of greed?
Old IP is fine. Breath of the Wild it up. But when your business model is "do nothing to adapt to the times, and try to ride the coattails of the success of 30 years ago", i stop feeling sympathy.
So either it's old and unimportant, or they're a stagnating old company. And considering how well switch + breath of the wild sales were, I'm pretty sure NES games make up a pretty small portion of their revenue.
So either it's old and unimportant, or they're a stagnating old company. And considering how well switch + breath of the wild sales were, I'm pretty sure NES games make up a pretty small portion of their revenue.
I have a really hard time taking someone to task for "piracy" of 20-30 year old titles.
As far as I'm concerned, I've bought those games about 2 or 3 times, my conscience is clear for format shifting to an emulation box.
As far as I'm concerned, I've bought those games about 2 or 3 times, my conscience is clear for format shifting to an emulation box.
There's something sick in recent trends when people fear of punishment or feel shame for using complete abandonware from early 80s. They absolutely need to pay money and get entertained, with convenient cloud-based DRM-enabled streaming service at sofa. This attitude is worse than any piracy.
BTW, Nintendo and their Yakudza internet patrols don't care and you don't need darknet torrents to get ROMs, they're everywhere. Emulators are mostly opensource and banned only on iOS because iOS is for Clash of Kings and not for retrocomputing.
BTW, Nintendo and their Yakudza internet patrols don't care and you don't need darknet torrents to get ROMs, they're everywhere. Emulators are mostly opensource and banned only on iOS because iOS is for Clash of Kings and not for retrocomputing.
IP should enter public domain after a decade, the concept of multi-decade copyright/IP protection causes massive cultural losses by making products and ideas inaccessible and unusable in other creative works, stunting our society's development.
You can still play the old titles legally - just get a copy of the original cartridge.
Ideally, though - for absolutely-true-legal (pinky shake) - you'd have to build a device to read out the ROM from that cartridge, store it, then play that copy (and only that copy).
Essentially - all of this boils down to it being legal to make a backup of the software media that you own. Then again, DVDs and CSS changed some of that, so...I dunno.
Ideally, though - for absolutely-true-legal (pinky shake) - you'd have to build a device to read out the ROM from that cartridge, store it, then play that copy (and only that copy).
Essentially - all of this boils down to it being legal to make a backup of the software media that you own. Then again, DVDs and CSS changed some of that, so...I dunno.
Nintendo doesn't get any money from me buying a used cartridge though, so in terms of financial benefit to the rightsholders I don't see a difference.
Used cartridge trading keeps the market value of those games above zero
Emulators on PC are far more accurate than Nintendo's. The Wii U VC in particular had a lot of problems.
It is legal. I have every single NES cart I've ever owned sitting in storage. Format-shifting is perfectly legal.
Downloading roms from pirate bay is not legal, regardless of whether you have the NES cart sitting in storage.
The EFF says otherwise.
https://w2.eff.org/IP/eff_fair_use_faq.php
Also see the 1984 Betamax decision and the 1999 Rio MP3 player decision.
https://w2.eff.org/IP/eff_fair_use_faq.php
Also see the 1984 Betamax decision and the 1999 Rio MP3 player decision.
(IANAL.)
Downloading ROMs is almost certainly illegal. Dumping cartridges one owns is almost certainly legal. I'm not saying that you shouldn't download ROMs, just that it isn't legally justified.
The EFF says nowhere at that page that downloading files is legal. It does say that backup copies are.
Downloading ROMs is almost certainly illegal. Dumping cartridges one owns is almost certainly legal. I'm not saying that you shouldn't download ROMs, just that it isn't legally justified.
The EFF says nowhere at that page that downloading files is legal. It does say that backup copies are.
Typically it's not the downloading that gets people in trouble, but the fact that if you are downloading a torrent with default settings you are also uploading said torrent.
Downloading a torrent has more complications that mere time-shifting. Users are also distributing copyrighted software to other torrent clients. (unless you've completely disabled uploads in your torrent app)
Owning a cartridge may give you the ability to legally download the same software but it certainly doesn't give you permission to supply copyrighted works to other people.
Owning a cartridge may give you the ability to legally download the same software but it certainly doesn't give you permission to supply copyrighted works to other people.
That's why you never seed/upload.
This is absolutely ridiculous, if they just supplied it correctly (something I was hoping they would learn to do by now) this thing would literally be free money for Nintendo. Or that's what it seems like to me - I know I would have at least bought one if it was available for the holiday season. How do they always underestimate the supply that they need?
I have been hoping for an snes edition, but since the switch is doing so well, I highly doubt we will see it in the near future.
Arrgh! I saw several of these sitting on the counter of a Gamestop just last week, but instead decided 'No, I was just able to get two Switch consoles. That's enough for today. I'll grab one of those in a week or two."
Now with this sudden announcement, no doubt those have vanished and I won't see one again without paying as much as a Switch ($300+) for one. Thanks, Nintendo. You're really listening to your fans here.
Now with this sudden announcement, no doubt those have vanished and I won't see one again without paying as much as a Switch ($300+) for one. Thanks, Nintendo. You're really listening to your fans here.
Maybe it was eating into attention for the switch
Or maybe in additional to supply issues it was relatively expensive to produce?
Or maybe in additional to supply issues it was relatively expensive to produce?
Tough to say for sure regarding taking attention from the Switch but from what I've seen the Switch is still selling out very quickly from retailers. That makes me believe there is still high demand.
It could be that their virtual console once-released may be in competition for sales of classic games.
It could be that their virtual console once-released may be in competition for sales of classic games.
Discontinued despite never making it to Amazon or even the Nintendo store in the UK for retail price after the preorder! I'm guessing Nintendo isn't too bothered by people using emulators if they're withdrawing paid alternatives like this.
Nintendo continue to selling classics via their Virtual Console/store.
I thought it did make it to Amazon for retail price but it sold out pretty instantly?
Don't worry! It's very easy to build a RetroPie box!
* RetroPie - Retro-gaming on the Raspberry Pi || https://retropie.org.uk/
* RetroPie - Retro-gaming on the Raspberry Pi || https://retropie.org.uk/
While sad, there are good emulators for the NES/Famicom. With a proper display and a controller you may not notice a substantial difference.
Now, while emulators are legal, ROMs may not. I wish Nintendo and others could release a desktop version of their legacy games shop.
I understand their business is "software sells hardware", but in the case of legacy games they could bring more revenue if they were a bit more open.
Now, while emulators are legal, ROMs may not. I wish Nintendo and others could release a desktop version of their legacy games shop.
I understand their business is "software sells hardware", but in the case of legacy games they could bring more revenue if they were a bit more open.
I figured they would actually have to start producing something in order to "discontinue" it though? /s
Have yet to see stock anywhere except through scalpers. Nintendo continues to have a huge supply problem with basic availability of hardware, for whatever reason.
Would buy one in a heartbeat. Not going to reward a scumbag scalper by spending a penny over MSRP to do so though.
Have yet to see stock anywhere except through scalpers. Nintendo continues to have a huge supply problem with basic availability of hardware, for whatever reason.
Would buy one in a heartbeat. Not going to reward a scumbag scalper by spending a penny over MSRP to do so though.
In my opinion, Nintendo should release a FPGA-based NES/SNES, with low latency joypads, and perfect audio and video (including advanced filters for "clean" and "perfectly distorted" experience). That, plus a "market" so they can ensure profits, would be huge, both for them, and for the users.
The "Analogue Nt" fits the bill, but it's a pretty pricey option: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/07/analogue-nt-a-museum-...
I don't know how low-latency the RetroN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RetroN) is but you can use the original games and gamepads with that. I think it's android-based, so it's a software emulator.
I don't know how low-latency the RetroN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RetroN) is but you can use the original games and gamepads with that. I think it's android-based, so it's a software emulator.
Sure. Exactly that. If Nintendo puts that FPGA into an ASIC, in volume it could cost less than 20 USD per chip.
Its not nintendo but from everything i can find its a pretty faithful reproduction of the hardware for a reasonablish price. https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/12/retrousb-avs-review/ .I havent gotten one yet but I have been mighty tempted.
RetroUSB AVS is not a full hardware implementation, but a cartridge reader + software emulation, i.e. you'll have over 30ms delay (16.6ms * 2), because of framebuffer synchronization.
I got lucky and was able to get a pre-order of the initial batch. However, I didn't get a second controller which now seems very foolish. Looking around it seems that $30 is as cheap as I can expect to find one.
Is it more feasible to find an original NES controller and swap out the connector?
The new controls are basically Wiimote add-ons. The original NES controllers have a different communication protocol.
What looks more feasible than buying a second NES classic controller is to instead buy a Wii Classic Pro controller. No need to spend $40.
I didn't buy the NES Classic Edition (not interested in living room consoles), but it would be an instabuy if Nintendo made another run of the Gameboy with 30 good games for ~$50.
Seems odd, there is still huge demand for this thing. Why discontinue it?
I think they want you to buy Switch and put all $ and focus on that.
The device has evidently been rooted to allow flashing other NES roms. I wonder if that had something to do with it.
I'm sure a lot of people are going to recommend RetroPie and other emulation packages. I'm going to recommend against general-purpose emulation if you enjoy the games in question:
https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/2019/an-input-lag-invest...
Why that? I've been emulating nes and snes games for nearly twenty years now with no issues. Not clear why you recommend against it from reading your link.
1.5 million sold... any chance this will have any value in 50 years?
Actually a decently hackable box. Stuck N64 and SNES support on it.
I suppose the ones on Ebay prices tripled on this news.
It seems that greasemonkey anti-aede works also inside HN. Didn't know. Nice.
oh well, at least they haven't fucked me over w.r.t. the switch yet.
I'm just gonna put this out there with no citations or proof: this controller[0] had the best hand feel of any console controller ever.
[0]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Nintendo...
[0]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Nintendo...
If anyone has more information than my 3rd hand comment, I'd be super interested. I was very disappointed not to find one for sale for a reasonable price. I would have loved one.