Learning to Squat(newyorker.com)
newyorker.com
Learning to Squat
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/learning-to-squat?mbid=social_twitter
59 comments
I like StrongLifts a lot. Mehdi has a ton of great form beta. However, you will plateau. You can't do +5 everyday for ever. And that's ok! Then you need to study Greg Nuckols [1] and people like that. I do wish his iPhone app was a little more flexible and could handle different programs than 5x5.
The one thing that StrongLifts beat into my tiny brain is that nothing worked before squats and everything got better after squats.
[1] https://www.strongerbyscience.com/
The one thing that StrongLifts beat into my tiny brain is that nothing worked before squats and everything got better after squats.
[1] https://www.strongerbyscience.com/
I like Rippetoe's book (mentioned in the article), but I also think anyone just getting into it should get a personal trainer that knows what they're doing to teach them how to squat.
Squatting correctly is hard. It's a complex movement that involves the entire body and requires you to do things you probably are not used to doing, and mobility you probably do not have.
Squatting correctly is hard. It's a complex movement that involves the entire body and requires you to do things you probably are not used to doing, and mobility you probably do not have.
+1 "mobility you probably do not have"
Poor posture, tight hamstrings, weak ankles, knee joints, tendons, etc. You can't take those things for granted.
The more complex the movement, the more likely you are to involve a part of the body that is not capable of handling it. Other parts will compensate, but if you go to failure or use imperfect form, you'll quickly discover a weak link.
Complex movements are the best for maximizing strength gains, but even without weights, they can more easily break you.
Poor posture, tight hamstrings, weak ankles, knee joints, tendons, etc. You can't take those things for granted.
The more complex the movement, the more likely you are to involve a part of the body that is not capable of handling it. Other parts will compensate, but if you go to failure or use imperfect form, you'll quickly discover a weak link.
Complex movements are the best for maximizing strength gains, but even without weights, they can more easily break you.
There are actually Starting Strength coaches that are trained and certified by Rippetoe. His site has a page to find coaches near you who can train you in the movements and help with programming.
Only in the US unfortunately.
Mostly in the US. There's coaches in Finland, Singapore, UK, Australia and Korea (and probably elsewhere).
http://startingstrength.org/index.php/site/coaches
Online coaching is a thing that Starting Strength does now. Probably better than whatever random personal trainer you'll end up getting paired with when you walk into your local gym.
> requires you to do things you probably are not used to doing, and mobility you probably do not have
Learned this the hard way. I'd encourage anyone tempted to try out his program to take a week or two and work on your mobility first. You won't really notice your imperfect movements until the weight is sufficiently heavy enough to start hurting you.
Learned this the hard way. I'd encourage anyone tempted to try out his program to take a week or two and work on your mobility first. You won't really notice your imperfect movements until the weight is sufficiently heavy enough to start hurting you.
Learned this the hard way. I'd encourage anyone tempted to try out his program to take a week or two and work on your mobility first
Interesting; do you have any links for advice or guidance on how to work on mobility?
Interesting; do you have any links for advice or guidance on how to work on mobility?
I like "Rodney Yee's A.M. Yoga for Beginners". It is gentle enough for when you're just getting started and only 15-20 minutes. It doesn't feel like much, but after several days you'll start to notice more flexibility. I start here whenever I've stopped exercising for a while.
Simply: Stretch every day, morning and evening or even more often. Start with physical therapy type exercises and then gradually add stretches from ballet, gymnastics, wrestling, etc. It'll put a literal "spring" in your stride, improve posture and range of motion, and lower perceived pain both during exercise and at rest.
The weights also improve flexibility but not in as balanced a fashion. Stories abound of lifters with the posture of a gorilla.
The weights also improve flexibility but not in as balanced a fashion. Stories abound of lifters with the posture of a gorilla.
Also many personal trainers don't know now to squat either, so just grabbing the nearest or most fit looking one one won't help. If one goes down this path and the trainer tells you things like to not go down all the way, find another trainer. Ideally your butt is touching your calves at the bottom of your movement.
Thighs parallel to the ground is a competition squat. Indeed, your but touching your calves often means you are curling slightly to make that contact and that can lead to injury.
Most people will not have the flexibility to go atg without serious butt wink. Look at all the stretching the oly people do.
uggghh, it's not necessarily true. At the least, your butt has to be parallel to the floor and at the most you can go all the way down. You can stop anywhere between that and it is still a perfectly proper squat.
Yes, and if you are just starting out, half squats with no weight are a perfectly valid exercise.
I agree, squats and deadlifts. Do you have any resources you would recommend to check out beyond these? Thanks!
Rippetoe has done some "how to" videos for The Art of Manliness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhVC_AnZYYM&list=PLLIasrSrFG...
Alan Thrall runs a Sacramento gym and has a number of videos on technique: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLibo-Z1-9Z6jPVfvHhy0v...
Alan Thrall runs a Sacramento gym and has a number of videos on technique: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLibo-Z1-9Z6jPVfvHhy0v...
1 - Find a good powerlifting gym. Nothing will beat in person technique feedback from a 800+ lb squatter.
2 - Failing (1), find one on the internet that does online coaching. Film yourself and pay for feedback. I have no experience with him, but George Leeman is strong as hell and knows his technique. You could start here. https://www.muscle-massochist.com/services/
3 - If you're in sf, I have a strong recommendation. (Your username may be old.)
2 - Failing (1), find one on the internet that does online coaching. Film yourself and pay for feedback. I have no experience with him, but George Leeman is strong as hell and knows his technique. You could start here. https://www.muscle-massochist.com/services/
3 - If you're in sf, I have a strong recommendation. (Your username may be old.)
If I could go back in time to my teenage self and give one piece of advice, it would be to do heavy squats. They're that good.
Though I'm not athletic by any competitive standards, being physically active has always been important to my health and well-being. I've tried a pretty good variety of sports and activities, and of everything I've tried, strength training--squats in particular--have had the best cost/benefit. Doesn't bother my joints and very few (if any) injuries. Doesn't take much time to get an intense workout done. Good for maintaining flexibility, especially after programming at a desk all day long. Fills my body with youthful hormones.
YMMV, but for me, squats are the best thing I've ever discovered for exercise.
Though I'm not athletic by any competitive standards, being physically active has always been important to my health and well-being. I've tried a pretty good variety of sports and activities, and of everything I've tried, strength training--squats in particular--have had the best cost/benefit. Doesn't bother my joints and very few (if any) injuries. Doesn't take much time to get an intense workout done. Good for maintaining flexibility, especially after programming at a desk all day long. Fills my body with youthful hormones.
YMMV, but for me, squats are the best thing I've ever discovered for exercise.
Me too (not just squats, but getting getting strong).
Only started in my very late twenties, and it solved all sorts of niggles I had (occasional aches in one of my knees and ankle). It's improved my balance and I also noticed I no longer roll my ankles.
I'm now a few years in, in my mid-thirties and in the best shape of my life.
I also found the continual improvement aspect of training leaked into the rest of my life. Made me think hard about the other aspects of my life, what I was working towards and what I was doing to get there.
Start with Ripptoe's novice program and you'll see yourself do more than you thought possible.
Only started in my very late twenties, and it solved all sorts of niggles I had (occasional aches in one of my knees and ankle). It's improved my balance and I also noticed I no longer roll my ankles.
I'm now a few years in, in my mid-thirties and in the best shape of my life.
I also found the continual improvement aspect of training leaked into the rest of my life. Made me think hard about the other aspects of my life, what I was working towards and what I was doing to get there.
Start with Ripptoe's novice program and you'll see yourself do more than you thought possible.
One thing I would advise to those starting out from a completely untrained state, is take it slow, your muscles get stronger much faster than your tendons. And tendons also heal much slower than muscles, and if you screw them up bad, they may not actually recover at all on their own. Be aware that the quick initial progress will slow down. Take it slow and steady from there on out. Let your body deal with the load on its own timeline.
Agreed but you gotta get the form down. I'd say start with air squats, kettle bell squats, then work your way up. Plenty of ways to build up your stamina without putting heavy weight on your shoulders.
Air squats and kettle bells won't really prepare you for low back squat, as they do not develop tight upper back. Squat with an empty bar instead.
Should've specified. Meant more around the lines that you can build a strong lower body without back squats, and that you can learn proper form (keep chest tight, don't round your back etc) without putting a barbell on your shoulders.
For me, I hit a PR of 405 for one rep on squats in my early 20s with likely bad form. Couple weeks later, did a warmup set w/ a quality belt and felt a pull in my back.
3 years later, I'm foam rolling/modified yoga every morning and night to keep the 3mm separations on every disc from causing me massive pain.
Tl;dr version - don't gotta jump into heavy back squats and don't ego lift, slow and steady or you will pay the price.
For me, I hit a PR of 405 for one rep on squats in my early 20s with likely bad form. Couple weeks later, did a warmup set w/ a quality belt and felt a pull in my back.
3 years later, I'm foam rolling/modified yoga every morning and night to keep the 3mm separations on every disc from causing me massive pain.
Tl;dr version - don't gotta jump into heavy back squats and don't ego lift, slow and steady or you will pay the price.
I started doing squatting and deadlifts - very carefully and with very light weight - about five years ago. There seemed to be many potential upsides, and doing it with much care about my form and going too heavy, I found it's helped me in many ways.
In the last year, I've been doing Bodypump classes at my local gym. There's a good amount of squatting and lunges in this, and with good music and fun instructors. If you're looking to try it out and have this at your local gym, try it out; it's a good hour-long class that will get you sweating, and you can set your difficulty level to whatever you want, light to heavy weights.
The music is pretty catchy, too! Here's the latest playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8gGCsYhXV4RSJ_kJft_cs...
P.S. The author of the piece said start squatting at the beginning and you'll be hurting by the time you finish reading. Thanks to my squats on my own and in classes, I was in a squat for the whole article and for the minutes it took to tap out this message on my phone. Squatting is good and can be learned!
In the last year, I've been doing Bodypump classes at my local gym. There's a good amount of squatting and lunges in this, and with good music and fun instructors. If you're looking to try it out and have this at your local gym, try it out; it's a good hour-long class that will get you sweating, and you can set your difficulty level to whatever you want, light to heavy weights.
The music is pretty catchy, too! Here's the latest playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8gGCsYhXV4RSJ_kJft_cs...
P.S. The author of the piece said start squatting at the beginning and you'll be hurting by the time you finish reading. Thanks to my squats on my own and in classes, I was in a squat for the whole article and for the minutes it took to tap out this message on my phone. Squatting is good and can be learned!
I've had chronic knee problems since high school, I'm now in my early 40s. I'm an on again off again exerciser, but in those 25ish years the only time my knees aren't constantly grouchy are when I'm doing heavy squats ass-to-grass over a period of time. It's amazing how supposedly the "don't do that you'll hurt yourself" exercise is the one which fixes me.
If you haven't tried a couple of weeks of barefoot (Vibram Five Fingers, Vivo Barefoot or any of that kind), I highly recommend it.
With regular cushioned shoes, you get in the habit of putting all your weight on your heel in one strike, which -- even with the cushioning -- sends the impact through your knees.
The first couple of days with my Vibrams felt very weird and impactful on the knee (I went all in, you might want to ease in at a couple hours/day first if you do) - but then your body gets used to walking on the balls of your feet, using the heel joint as a spring, and basically saving all impact from your knees -- it makes a huge difference, even if you don't do it all the time; I find I lose the spring action after a few months without them, but then a couple of days are enough to jog the muscle memory.
With regular cushioned shoes, you get in the habit of putting all your weight on your heel in one strike, which -- even with the cushioning -- sends the impact through your knees.
The first couple of days with my Vibrams felt very weird and impactful on the knee (I went all in, you might want to ease in at a couple hours/day first if you do) - but then your body gets used to walking on the balls of your feet, using the heel joint as a spring, and basically saving all impact from your knees -- it makes a huge difference, even if you don't do it all the time; I find I lose the spring action after a few months without them, but then a couple of days are enough to jog the muscle memory.
I've been squatting and deadlifting for around 12 years now and can't recommend them enough. Most of my gains cam from these compound exercises.
When I hit the gym I pretty much just organise my routine around the squat rack. It is barely used (everyone is busy doing bicep curls in front of the mirror) so it works out for me :)
PS: shameless plug - I recently created a workout tracker in react/redux. If you're looking for a simple app to track your progress check out https://ewolo.fitness !
When I hit the gym I pretty much just organise my routine around the squat rack. It is barely used (everyone is busy doing bicep curls in front of the mirror) so it works out for me :)
PS: shameless plug - I recently created a workout tracker in react/redux. If you're looking for a simple app to track your progress check out https://ewolo.fitness !
To learn good form, have a long stick and hold it against your upper and lower spine, standing up. Now bend your knees and hips, but without the stick ever leaving your spine. Go as low as you can to increase flexibility. When you go go down, breathe in and trigger your abdomen muscles. Try different stances, like wide or narrow between your feet, to something that feels natural to you. When you start using the bar, don't use any protection, just find a position that feels nice, usually on the shoulder blades. You'll get used to it!
I develop the Official Starting Strength app.
Happy to answer any questions about the app or starting strength in general (although I'm not an SSC, I have done the seminar and been strength training for about 5 years).
Here's a bunch of free resources to help people get started:
Starting Strength youtube channel, check out the DVD section which has Rip coaching people through each lift. https://www.youtube.com/user/AasgaardCo
Get your form checked by a starting strength coach - http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/forum171/ (read the sticky first about how to a useful video)
Starting Strength sub-reddit - Scott Hambrick (a starting strength coach) is active on there and will do form checks and give advice on general questions. https://www.reddit.com/r/StartingStrength/
Happy to answer any questions about the app or starting strength in general (although I'm not an SSC, I have done the seminar and been strength training for about 5 years).
Here's a bunch of free resources to help people get started:
Starting Strength youtube channel, check out the DVD section which has Rip coaching people through each lift. https://www.youtube.com/user/AasgaardCo
Get your form checked by a starting strength coach - http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/forum171/ (read the sticky first about how to a useful video)
Starting Strength sub-reddit - Scott Hambrick (a starting strength coach) is active on there and will do form checks and give advice on general questions. https://www.reddit.com/r/StartingStrength/
tangentially related, but this reminded me of The Iron by Henry Rollins
http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/strength-articles/iron-henry...
http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/strength-articles/iron-henry...
> In parts of the world where squat toilets are common, the pose is used for resting or waiting, a regular sight on train platforms or at bus stops.
My mother didn't like us squatting because she associated it with Japanese occupation. The soldiers would squat like that to eat a meal or have a meeting, and in the latter case it was generally a sign you should make yourself scarce.
I find this interesting because, being almost 30 years younger than she, and having heard this a few times (like when my sister and I would try to "sit squat" I just cannot adopt the same opinion. Thank goodness!
My mother didn't like us squatting because she associated it with Japanese occupation. The soldiers would squat like that to eat a meal or have a meeting, and in the latter case it was generally a sign you should make yourself scarce.
I find this interesting because, being almost 30 years younger than she, and having heard this a few times (like when my sister and I would try to "sit squat" I just cannot adopt the same opinion. Thank goodness!
I feel that if I do weight training that involved the squats or dead lifts I would crave for food insanely. I don't have that crave after a run or rowing. That's the reason I'm staying away from weight training. Does anybody experience the same?
I know from personal experience that more than just "people with vaginas" squat for sex. Reads like a bad attempt at trans-inclusivity.
Squatting is great if you need to lift a felled tree, but not to escape a big cat chasing you. Learn to squat, but please also learn to jump.
The need for the former is likely to be encountered more often than need for the latter, at least by most people.
Depends on the need. For attracting mates (or warding off challengers) it's the former. For survival, it's the latter.
An unarmed human is dead against pretty much any motivated predator that is larger than 120lbs. It really doesn't matter how strong the human is or how high they can jump.
But being stronger, and, thus, bigger, is a good way to remove a predator's motivation. And, speaking of survival: being bigger will also give your body more food to eat if you're in a starvation situation.
But being stronger, and, thus, bigger, is a good way to remove a predator's motivation. And, speaking of survival: being bigger will also give your body more food to eat if you're in a starvation situation.
FYI, vertical jump more or less cannot be trained. It is almost entirely genetic. Either you can jump high or you can't.
Also, I think many people underestimate how useful strength is in most aspects of life. From picking up groceries, to home improvement projects, to wrangling kids, to getting yourself up off the toilet (a serious problem for older people). Strength makes all of these easier.
Also, I think many people underestimate how useful strength is in most aspects of life. From picking up groceries, to home improvement projects, to wrangling kids, to getting yourself up off the toilet (a serious problem for older people). Strength makes all of these easier.
How is this possibly true? I've increased my vertical jump by nearly two entire feet through years of training in volleyball. Everyone can increase their vertical just like they can increase their squat. It's a full body compound movement.
I think he is referring to method NBA teams select newcomers. They take well trained young person and they have them do vertical jump. Because they are well trained, their vertical jump will not improve much because there is genetic component to it. But if you are average then of course it will improve with time as you do training, for example if you lose weight you can jump higher or if you practice and improve nerve-muscle connection that will increase your power output it will also improve your jump. But at the end of the day there is genetic limit for the most part, but just like with everything there are probably exceptions...
Kinda like IQ test, if you train specifically for it, you can get better. Vertical jump is a good measure of power, same as a IQ test is a good test of intelligence.
if this was the case, every NBA player would have a 48" vertical jump. Every 100m sprinter would be running sub 9.8 seconds.
Speed and power is entirely genetic. you're either fast or not. you can either jump high or you can't. you can improve it but only by slim margins.
Strength however, can be trained and improved greatly and well into middle age, which is why barbell training is so popular.
Speed and power is entirely genetic. you're either fast or not. you can either jump high or you can't. you can improve it but only by slim margins.
Strength however, can be trained and improved greatly and well into middle age, which is why barbell training is so popular.
Also very age dependent.
The great advantage of volleyball is that it actually teaches how to jump.
I played volleyball recreationally for years and the jumping with arm swing became muscle memory. Last week I was teaching my 10 yo son some volleyball basics and I realized how a few extra movements can impove one's jump (specifically the singing and its timing).
I played volleyball recreationally for years and the jumping with arm swing became muscle memory. Last week I was teaching my 10 yo son some volleyball basics and I realized how a few extra movements can impove one's jump (specifically the singing and its timing).
Actually, most people can jump higher, because they don't know how to jump properly. Most people don't know how to stretch properly, or how to engage momentum properly, or how to break past basic mental blocks in movement. Training can teach anyone that. You can go past that and also train precision jumping, or skills that build on jumping like wall-running, or something more simple like jump-rope skills, or something difficult like flips.
In addition to the skill of jumping, jumping with weight will gain muscle and endurance. It also improves the fast neurologic response that is required for the complex series of movements when changing direction. It also trains specific muscle fibers in ways that aren't in strength training.
Much like squatting, all you have to do to start is to jump a lot. Trainers can point out how to optimize your jump. But a lot of the potential to get high air, land on top of something, or reach something high, is mental.
In addition to the skill of jumping, jumping with weight will gain muscle and endurance. It also improves the fast neurologic response that is required for the complex series of movements when changing direction. It also trains specific muscle fibers in ways that aren't in strength training.
Much like squatting, all you have to do to start is to jump a lot. Trainers can point out how to optimize your jump. But a lot of the potential to get high air, land on top of something, or reach something high, is mental.
See maaksool's reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14835138
As he points out, if vertical jump was really trainable, every basketball player in the NBA would have a 48" vertical. But, I assure you, they do not. Only genetic freaks have 48" verticals.
As he points out, if vertical jump was really trainable, every basketball player in the NBA would have a 48" vertical. But, I assure you, they do not. Only genetic freaks have 48" verticals.
The fact that everyone's vertical jump doesn't reach some arbitrary height in no way disproves that you can train someone to jump higher. All it proves is not everyone jumps to the same height. This is obvious.
Mark Ripttoe's DVD is very good, he illustrates form with a wide variety of body types, pointing out issues different people have
"People with vaginas squat for sex or when peeing outdoors."
You mean, "women"?
You mean, "women"?
>> Three times a week, for five sets of five reps
I would recommend doing 8 sets or 6 or 8, increasing the weight each set. 5 sets of 5 isn't enough to do more than get warmed up.
I would recommend doing 8 sets or 6 or 8, increasing the weight each set. 5 sets of 5 isn't enough to do more than get warmed up.
building strength = 1-3 rep @1-3RM
building muscles = 4-16 rep @6RM ;)
I wasted years of time in the gym doing leg extensions and leg curls -- single joint exercises and seeing no results before I embraced squats.
Before StrongLifts (which eased me into squats with the +5lbs ever lift day, of which there are three per week) I was squatting on the Smith machine. That was bad for my jointsbesause it restricted my range of motion. Also, I through I needed the bar pad, but it turns out I can bear a lot of weight with the bar across my shoulders.
Because I have poor join flexibility, I only squat to horizontal thighs, not deep squats like some people can do. Maybe the biggest difference I can tell from the squats (plus the other four exercise) is that the ROI on my metabolism is huge! I used to have to run to keep the weight off, but that was bad for my knees.
I'm about to level off at my first set of eight goals, and start incorporating the rowing machine for cardio into my weekly workout. StrongLifts recommends to eat a lot of protein, and not to do any other exercise while on the program, so you can keep progressing through the weight increases by giving your body all the rest it can get between workout days.