2018 Intel NUC Models(nucblog.net)
nucblog.net
2018 Intel NUC Models
http://nucblog.net/2017/09/2018-intel-nuc-models/
74 comments
> At this point, does it matter much? I have a Celeron Qnap 25X that chews up everything I throw at it, the only limitation is the 8GB of RAM.
It surely chews no code containing AVX/AVX instructions. Also support vor VT-d is probably missing, just as TSX. Not to speak of AVX-512, which is planned by Intel to come to prosumer processors in near future.
It surely chews no code containing AVX/AVX instructions. Also support vor VT-d is probably missing, just as TSX. Not to speak of AVX-512, which is planned by Intel to come to prosumer processors in near future.
How much does that matter?
I get most of my software pre-compiled through apt repositories. It's all using basic X86_64 instruction sets. My computer, being a relatively recent Core i5, has plenty of advanced features [0], but outside of one piece of manually compiled software occupying less than 5% of my CPU on average (an LP solver used by a bot), I'm not taking advantage of any of it.
Considering how much electron apps have taken over my desktop, SSD and RAM play an exponentially bigger role in the quality of experience than my processor does.
[0] https://ark.intel.com/products/91160/Intel-Core-i5-6260U-Pro...
I get most of my software pre-compiled through apt repositories. It's all using basic X86_64 instruction sets. My computer, being a relatively recent Core i5, has plenty of advanced features [0], but outside of one piece of manually compiled software occupying less than 5% of my CPU on average (an LP solver used by a bot), I'm not taking advantage of any of it.
Considering how much electron apps have taken over my desktop, SSD and RAM play an exponentially bigger role in the quality of experience than my processor does.
[0] https://ark.intel.com/products/91160/Intel-Core-i5-6260U-Pro...
Java, V8, or the .net CLR could sense the processor features at run time , and JIT the code into more efficient instructions?
A lot of things are interpreted nowadays, if the interpreter is updated to understand the processor features, it can take advantage of it.
A lot of things are interpreted nowadays, if the interpreter is updated to understand the processor features, it can take advantage of it.
In addition to JIT-compiled code there also are libraries that do runtime detection of available processor features and dispatch to optimized implementations. Pretty much anything number-crunchy such as software image/video processing will do this.
How much do these VMs actually optimize with newer instructions? Last I checked (oracle java 8), the jvm still had really spotty autovectorization optimizations, and SSE has been around since 1999, with the most recent SSE4 coming out over 10 years ago. I get that they technically could do so, but how much do they do it in practice?
I have Container station[1] and Virtualization Station[2] running fine...
[1] https://www.qnap.com/solution/container_station/en/ [2] https://www.qnap.com/solution/virtualization-station/en-au/
[1] https://www.qnap.com/solution/container_station/en/ [2] https://www.qnap.com/solution/virtualization-station/en-au/
I don't know of anything using TSX, AMD doesn't have an equivalent in Ryzen even, I wouldn't bet on Zen 2 having it either. If you have a new enough Intel CPU, OpenCL on an Iris GPU is better than or as good as AVX/2/3 by far.
VT-d not being in every processor is Intel's fault for using binning to gouge consumers. Though everyone doesn't need VMs or containers.
VT-d not being in every processor is Intel's fault for using binning to gouge consumers. Though everyone doesn't need VMs or containers.
VT-d is a prerequisite for TXT, which has value to people who aren't using VMs or containers.
VT-d also enables device driver containment/isolation, again, which provides value to people not otherwise interested in VMs or containers.
VT-d also enables device driver containment/isolation, again, which provides value to people not otherwise interested in VMs or containers.
I'm not sure I would phrase it that way, the two are relatively independent. If you're getting a business laptop, you're likely to get VT-d and TXT. The i7-4710HQ has VT-d and doesn't have TXT or vPro.
https://ark.intel.com/products/78930/Intel-Core-i7-4710HQ-Pr...
TXT is more a part of vPro and provides bootup security, including drivers loaded at startup. Everyone doesn't need VT-d or TXT. Most BIOSes support some sort of signing if you bother to setup it up and verify that your kernel hasn't changed. Intel could have made vPro, TPMs and TXT open and available to everyone, regardless of VT-d, but that's how they chose to differentiate and make a little more money. Mom and pop need to settle for basic kernel signing instead of an open TPM module.
https://ark.intel.com/products/78930/Intel-Core-i7-4710HQ-Pr...
TXT is more a part of vPro and provides bootup security, including drivers loaded at startup. Everyone doesn't need VT-d or TXT. Most BIOSes support some sort of signing if you bother to setup it up and verify that your kernel hasn't changed. Intel could have made vPro, TPMs and TXT open and available to everyone, regardless of VT-d, but that's how they chose to differentiate and make a little more money. Mom and pop need to settle for basic kernel signing instead of an open TPM module.
The NUC codenames and model numbers are impenetrable. Here's a summary of these rumored new models:
- "Bean Canyon" is the expected annual replacement for the current NUC lineup. Same form factor, new Intel chips as usual.
- "June Canyon" is a new low-cost model using Celeron/Pentium CPUs. No word on form factor.
- "Hades Canyon" is a new high-powered model with quad-core CPUs and probably a new hardware design. There will be a special VR model that supports low-power discrete graphics. (All previous NUCs have been Intel integrated graphics only, unless you count the ability to use an external GPU using Thunderbolt 3 which appeared on this year's models.)
- "Bean Canyon" is the expected annual replacement for the current NUC lineup. Same form factor, new Intel chips as usual.
- "June Canyon" is a new low-cost model using Celeron/Pentium CPUs. No word on form factor.
- "Hades Canyon" is a new high-powered model with quad-core CPUs and probably a new hardware design. There will be a special VR model that supports low-power discrete graphics. (All previous NUCs have been Intel integrated graphics only, unless you count the ability to use an external GPU using Thunderbolt 3 which appeared on this year's models.)
Not sure if Bean Canyon will have the same form factor as all of them are 28W. I certainly hope they've got a new cooling solution! June Canyon (Gemini Lake) will be the same as Apollo Lake I'm pretty sure.
I don't understand why they are never releasing a fanless model. Especially now that their m3 CPUs are fanless in lots of machines. There's a lot of aftermarket cases and mods for this. An official product would make things so much simpler and well-tested.
Maybe those June Canyon, with 10W TDP will be finally fanless. But an i3 would be so much better.
Maybe those June Canyon, with 10W TDP will be finally fanless. But an i3 would be so much better.
I often thought about going with a NUC in the past but either the price tag was not convincing or the only performant option was housed in a skull case.
The skull case NUC also comes with a non skull case in the package, for those that don't want a skull PC.
The skull was an option that could be replaced with a neutral plate that came in the same package.
I have the skull case one at work. I decided to go with the skull instead of the plain cover even though I hate those sorts of things normally. But I don't see the skull as the NUC slots onto the VESA bracket on the back of my monitor. So I don't see it. I run Linux on it and had no problems apart from disk space so far. Obviously you can go for more than the 256gb SSD I went for.
>or the only performant option was housed in a skull case.
So?
So?
I didn't know it came with a non-skull plate, but to answer your, erm, question, I think a skull on the desk is not really an option for an office which clients would visit.
"I think a skull on the desk is not really an option"
How is that not self evident? Are hospitals supposed to just populate their facilities with skull enclosures? How about a funeral home? The receptionist is supposed to put a skull on the desk and think nothing of it?
If you're having trouble understanding why someone may take issue with skull cased computers you should look at your own development; it's not progressing properly.
(Yes I know Intel supplied a non-skull cover; you're missing the point as well.)
How is that not self evident? Are hospitals supposed to just populate their facilities with skull enclosures? How about a funeral home? The receptionist is supposed to put a skull on the desk and think nothing of it?
If you're having trouble understanding why someone may take issue with skull cased computers you should look at your own development; it's not progressing properly.
(Yes I know Intel supplied a non-skull cover; you're missing the point as well.)
>Are hospitals supposed to just populate their facilities with skull enclosures? How about a funeral home?
Is the parent working on a hospital or a funeral home or some such place? Did they mention they are interested in using it in a professional setting? And even in such a setting, does it say anywhere that the computer has to be in prominent display? And is the presence of a skull decoration such big of a deal, when tons of stuff people buy, wear and sport have prominent skulls and similar motifs?
(Not to mention that hospitals feature skulls all around their premises, from signs outside the x-ray department -"danger radiation"-, to labels on chemical bottles, bins where they throw hazardous material in, etc. Heck, anatomical skeletons are quite common in hospitals / doctor offices as well.
>If you're having trouble understanding why someone may take issue with skull cased computers you should look at your own development; it's not progressing properly.
If you're having trouble not insulting people you don't know about their "development (...) not progressing properly" (sic) because of a question for something which many people/cultures in the world would find totally inconsequential if they saw it in an office ("it's a PC with some decoration, nothing to see here"), maybe you should check your manners?
Is the parent working on a hospital or a funeral home or some such place? Did they mention they are interested in using it in a professional setting? And even in such a setting, does it say anywhere that the computer has to be in prominent display? And is the presence of a skull decoration such big of a deal, when tons of stuff people buy, wear and sport have prominent skulls and similar motifs?
(Not to mention that hospitals feature skulls all around their premises, from signs outside the x-ray department -"danger radiation"-, to labels on chemical bottles, bins where they throw hazardous material in, etc. Heck, anatomical skeletons are quite common in hospitals / doctor offices as well.
>If you're having trouble understanding why someone may take issue with skull cased computers you should look at your own development; it's not progressing properly.
If you're having trouble not insulting people you don't know about their "development (...) not progressing properly" (sic) because of a question for something which many people/cultures in the world would find totally inconsequential if they saw it in an office ("it's a PC with some decoration, nothing to see here"), maybe you should check your manners?
If only vendors in this industry would step up and provide stickers you could put on computers you own so you could make them look like whatever you wanted.
I'm not sure an Octocat would give a better impression to those non-techie clients with very little humor.
I like the NUC, I've got several. These seem to be reasonable bumps along the line. I find it amusing that Intel's NUC was in response to the Mac Mini and they have now developed a nice niche market while the Mini has wilted on the vine.
Are there any SFF models with new AMD Ryzen? Any coming out soon? I have been unable to find anything.
The lowest TDP for Ryzen is 65W, so while there has been at least one laptop announced with a Ryzen 7, it might be the most thermally throttled CPU/GPU combination ever.
AMD has announced Ryzen APUs, but the specifics aren't out yet. If they come with USB/SATA/PCIe connectivity on the processor like normal Ryzens, they could lead to some very small and very power efficient laptops and SFF PCs. Waiting for a laptop with one of these myself. Just watch out for DDR4 ram prices.
AMD has announced Ryzen APUs, but the specifics aren't out yet. If they come with USB/SATA/PCIe connectivity on the processor like normal Ryzens, they could lead to some very small and very power efficient laptops and SFF PCs. Waiting for a laptop with one of these myself. Just watch out for DDR4 ram prices.
>The lowest TDP for Ryzen is 65W, so while there has been at least one laptop announced with a Ryzen 7, it might be the most thermally throttled CPU/GPU combination ever.
Big gaming laptops can handle astonishing amounts of heat. The Origin Eon17-SLX can achieve useful overclocks on an i7-7700K and two GTX 1080s. It's two inches thick, weighs 12lbs and needs two power bricks, but there's clearly a market for desktop-replacement monsters.
Intel and Nvidia have the laptop market dominated for now due to their greater power efficiency, but it isn't inconceivable that AMD could make some inroads into the laptop and SFF market when the Ryzen APUs launch.
https://www.originpc.com/gaming/laptops/eon17-slx/
Big gaming laptops can handle astonishing amounts of heat. The Origin Eon17-SLX can achieve useful overclocks on an i7-7700K and two GTX 1080s. It's two inches thick, weighs 12lbs and needs two power bricks, but there's clearly a market for desktop-replacement monsters.
Intel and Nvidia have the laptop market dominated for now due to their greater power efficiency, but it isn't inconceivable that AMD could make some inroads into the laptop and SFF market when the Ryzen APUs launch.
https://www.originpc.com/gaming/laptops/eon17-slx/
Yes please. I'd probably swap out my 6th gen NUC for one if I could get a small form factor setup with a Ryzen APU.
Ryzen based APUs (Raven Ridge) are planned for 1H 2018
I'm excited for the NUC7i5DN variants that are shipping "real soon now"... They're very similar to the current NUC7i5BN with the addition of a bunch more headers on the board and vPro is enabled.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/nuc-kit-nuc7i5dn...
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/nuc-kit-nuc7i5dn...
A small form factor VR computer would be really nice just for ease of setup (especially for installations or demos). At [1] CHIVR everyone that does a demo is either bringing a gaming laptop or desktop.
https://www.meetup.com/CHIVR-Chicago-Virtual-Reality/
https://www.meetup.com/CHIVR-Chicago-Virtual-Reality/
I've seen the group before. What exactly do you guys do? Is it just a networking with a few corporate demos?
CHIVR meetups are centered around a panel where a few people talk about how they use VR (usually split between ad agencies and creators / video game designers / content). There is networking before while people eat food and after. There are a demos before and afterward by people. Its actually really interesting.
These might be interesting for a home firewall. Much more powerful and flexible than the usual suspects.
Except for that whole Intel Management Engine fiasco. I've read that (all?) recent Intel CPUs have that? I presume the Ethernet has an IME and is potentially vulnerable?
Except for that whole Intel Management Engine fiasco. I've read that (all?) recent Intel CPUs have that? I presume the Ethernet has an IME and is potentially vulnerable?
I've got two NUCs, which I use as HTPCs running Fedora. They're fantastic machines. Really tiny, quiet, and plenty powerful enough for HD movies and light gaming/emulation.
I'm considering buying a NUC, attaching a big hard drive, and running syncthing on it. Good idea?
Some NUC models cannot house 2.5" SATA drives. For those that do, heat dissipation is an issue for 7200RPM drives. Plus max capacity of internal 2.5" hard drives is only 2TB, and depending on your use case it might or might not be sufficient.
Your use case does not seem very computation-depending. Maybe a cheaper Raspberry Pi-based solution will also work.
Your use case does not seem very computation-depending. Maybe a cheaper Raspberry Pi-based solution will also work.
> Plus max capacity of internal 2.5" hard drives is only 2TB
That's the maximum capacity of a 2.5" 9mm tall drive. You can buy Seagate 4TB & 5TB drives in 2.5" which are 15mm tall. [0] [1]
[0] https://mtekk.us/archives/reviews/hardware/seagate-4tb-expan...
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-2-5-Inch-Internal-S...
That's the maximum capacity of a 2.5" 9mm tall drive. You can buy Seagate 4TB & 5TB drives in 2.5" which are 15mm tall. [0] [1]
[0] https://mtekk.us/archives/reviews/hardware/seagate-4tb-expan...
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-2-5-Inch-Internal-S...
I did this with a square NUC. You need to remove the drive bracket and rely on a bit of tape instead. It will fit but I used the M2 slot to do cache for the big drive rather than have slow storage.
15mm drives are not really suitable for internal installation due to limited height in most NUCs.
Thanks for the advice. Yeah, a NUC would be way overpowered most of the time. A R-Pi and NFS probably solves 90% of my use case.
The RPi, even the 3, isn't a great choice for networked storage, since the NIC is running over the USB bus. A Beaglebone Black[1] would be similar but have better hardware for the job.
1: http://beagleboard.org/black
1: http://beagleboard.org/black
I have a Beaglebone Black with a WD USB 2 portable HDD attached to it. I get only around 5 MB/s while copying (from Beagle to PC) a ~500 MB file over 5 GHz wifi. Not sure if this is because of USB 2.0 though.
PCEngines boxes would be pretty good for this too http://pcengines.ch/apu2.htm
My understanding is that the Beaglebone Black is also... opener. Or at least it seems like the Beaglebone Black is supported by more operating systems. If, for example, you wanted to run OpenBSD or even Minix 3, BBB is the system for you.
A chromebox with a new seabios rom (so it can run a normal Linux distro) would be a decent compromise between those two extremes.
I have an Asus chromebox doing this, very happy with it.
I have an Asus chromebox doing this, very happy with it.
USB drives and ethernet share the same bus on RPi so NAS performance is not great.
If they cannot house 2.5" what size can they house then? Or did you mean 3.5"?
No he meant 2.5"
Those models only have the "MacBook pro" "stick ssd" aka M2 SSD, which has a smaller form factor.
Those models only have the "MacBook pro" "stick ssd" aka M2 SSD, which has a smaller form factor.
M.2 SSDs
Oh wow. I must keep up with the times then!
It might be cheaper to get a mini-ITX build instead. It is larger than the NUC form-factor, but allows for much more expansion if you ever feel like it.
I just did a build, and was considering the NUC, but it was prohibitively costlier for not a lot of improvement, other than the form factor.
I just did a build, and was considering the NUC, but it was prohibitively costlier for not a lot of improvement, other than the form factor.
I have never run syncthing but NUCs are a really nice product, sturdy and easily concealed (you can just screw them under a desk for example). Don't forget to buy memory and a hard drive for your unit though :) It doesn't come with any.
Since most NUCs don't take 3.5" HDs, I assume you mean attaching via USB3?
You should be able to get a Thin Terminal device for about $100US with USB3.0 and gigabit ethernet and/or wifi. With a little shopping, you may even be able to get one with a low profile PCIe slot for similar money. A few examples of such machines are the HP T5740, t520 or t620. Dell/Wyse also should have acceptable options.
Choosing a Thin terminal should cost far less than a NUC while being much more capable than a raspberry pi for not much more money (a raspberry pi 3 still needs a uSD card, a case, and an unusually powerful USB PSU).
You should be able to get a Thin Terminal device for about $100US with USB3.0 and gigabit ethernet and/or wifi. With a little shopping, you may even be able to get one with a low profile PCIe slot for similar money. A few examples of such machines are the HP T5740, t520 or t620. Dell/Wyse also should have acceptable options.
Choosing a Thin terminal should cost far less than a NUC while being much more capable than a raspberry pi for not much more money (a raspberry pi 3 still needs a uSD card, a case, and an unusually powerful USB PSU).
Most (many?) nuc users use the mini-pci flash storage devices. My NUCs (I have 3 of the skylake ones with 32G of ram) have 250G Samsung SSDs and those suckers just scream.
I setup freebsd on mine and have the internal nvmex4 ssd's as caches and external usb3 jbod towers holding the spinning rust.
Its nice, though the performance of usb3 is... less than optimal the fact that I can saturate gigabit ethernet means I don't care too much. Local compiles are crazy fast though.
Its nice, though the performance of usb3 is... less than optimal the fact that I can saturate gigabit ethernet means I don't care too much. Local compiles are crazy fast though.
That sounds like a pretty nice setup. I'm running a small (3 node hopefully 5 node in a few months) kubernetes cluster to dogfood things for my own home use. What do you run, some sort of a NAS with them?
Yep, I just run nfsv3 and samba4 on it to share things out to my internal network.
Its plenty fast for all my needs, though nfs over wifi is... slow in general its fast enough to not care a whole lot. I have a few bhyve linux vm's running that just go straight to the ssd's so they're silly fast with like 3g/s read speed or whatever. Its more than enough for all my home needs.
Its plenty fast for all my needs, though nfs over wifi is... slow in general its fast enough to not care a whole lot. I have a few bhyve linux vm's running that just go straight to the ssd's so they're silly fast with like 3g/s read speed or whatever. Its more than enough for all my home needs.
Looking to do something similar and was worried about compatibility for the disk enclosure. Mind sharing which one you went with that works with freebsd?
I use a skylake nuc for my lab server. Spins up VMs just fine although you have to run Fedora (vs RHEL/Centos) for full hardware support as some drivers are only in the 4.x kernel.
I have the impression that a cheap desktop (pentium?) PC is in fact cheaper and can house lots of 3.5" drives. Depends on how much space you have and how much storage you need.
A used ThinkPad T420 sells for about $200,has full driver support and will do anything you're looking for.
Not to mention a built-in console and battery backup. That said, the NUC form-factor is nice if hiding it is important.
Laptops run 24/7 are (I would think) more likely than desktops to develop heat and wear related hardware faults, and I'd consider anything with a Lithium Ion battery plugged into power all the time in (presumably) a closet or other out-of-the-way place to be a fire hazard (see also: the aforementioned thermal issues, which would aggravate any issues with the battery)
I don't see why an original battery would be a fire hazard.
But many laptops will run without a battery just fine.
But many laptops will run without a battery just fine.
Yeah, but then no "built-in battery backup", which is part of claimed benefit of buying a used $200 laptop over rooting a $150 chromebox or $200-300 cheap PC.
You can run the laptop without a battery in it if you're worried about a fire.
The Asus VIVO PC line is physically larger, but has some models with space for a 3.5" hard drive, and is still not terribly large.
They work great: excellent NIC performance, reliable (2 years 24*7), good driver support on ubuntu and fedora.
At this point, does it matter much? I have a Celeron Qnap 25X that chews up everything I throw at it, the only limitation is the 8GB of RAM. IN fact, the limitation doesn't seem to be the processor on any of my stuff. It is either a dearth of supported RAM (like 8GB max), or a lack of an SSD or slow SSD's (which is another confusing topic eVVM, NVM, etc...).