Is there an upside to having no social life?(bbc.com)
bbc.com
Is there an upside to having no social life?
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20171011-is-there-an-upside-to-having-no-social-life
148 comments
I think I do need more human interaction than I've sometimes gotten, but what you described really sounds pretty nice. I seem to get worn out from too much alone time and from too much socializing, but get worn out faster from socializing.
A few years ago I decide to try out the whole digital nomad lifestyle thing. I was able to see lots of interesting places, but what I didn't account for was how much of an introvert I am. Most of the celebrity nomad travelers seem to be pretty outgoing and I couldn't figure out where they were finding all of these people they met.
Part of it might have been my strange preference for colder climates, but I spent an entire month in Vilnius Lithuania without talking to hardly anyone. The language barrier probably didn't help either. My time was spent riding the bus, wandering the city, and working in coffee shops.
I've read accounts of other people who had experiences like this and how much they hated it, and while it was sometimes lonely, I do think I learned quite a bit about myself from the experience. Spending so much time alone meant a lot of time to think and reflect, and I think I was able to figure out some things about myself and work on bad habits that people who have lots of other people in their lives might not get a chance to or might not think about.
Some people just need more or less human interaction than others. There is a really good book called Quiet by Susan Cain that is a defense of introversion that was really helpful for me.
A few years ago I decide to try out the whole digital nomad lifestyle thing. I was able to see lots of interesting places, but what I didn't account for was how much of an introvert I am. Most of the celebrity nomad travelers seem to be pretty outgoing and I couldn't figure out where they were finding all of these people they met.
Part of it might have been my strange preference for colder climates, but I spent an entire month in Vilnius Lithuania without talking to hardly anyone. The language barrier probably didn't help either. My time was spent riding the bus, wandering the city, and working in coffee shops.
I've read accounts of other people who had experiences like this and how much they hated it, and while it was sometimes lonely, I do think I learned quite a bit about myself from the experience. Spending so much time alone meant a lot of time to think and reflect, and I think I was able to figure out some things about myself and work on bad habits that people who have lots of other people in their lives might not get a chance to or might not think about.
Some people just need more or less human interaction than others. There is a really good book called Quiet by Susan Cain that is a defense of introversion that was really helpful for me.
I have lived with my girlfriend for around 5 years, but recently took a job in a different city. I have been living away during the week and it has been very much as you describe. I'm not sure she sees it that way though.
That's tough and tricky because you could be honest about it (the healthy way of doing things) but you probably haven't been up front about how liberating it all feels because sometimes the truth can hurt. I feel for you. Maybe go over it a few dozen times in your own head until you come up with a bulletproof way to bring it up without demonstrating that you two being apart is your goal.
I don't think he was asking for advice. Ha.
To your points, being honest is important, being sensitive and not rubbing something hurtful in is also important. Some times you can share your excitement, sometimes you need to share your feelings without your excitement.
I've been married for 14 years.
I've been married for 14 years.
After periods off social and asocial life, I feel that there's a part of your mind that needs alter(s) (as opposed to ego/self), if that part is satisfied (baby, girlfriend) you won't need much socialization. If you don't have alter, the ego can be your main motivation. I've gone very long periods alone because I was happy doing something I enjoyed for me (music, cs, whatever). But, this may be detrimental at some point, I think whether we admit/want it or not, the alter/social part of our brains needs to be refilled. For instance, even though I was bored, anxious and somehow hated (as in sitting in a corner waiting for an hour at one point) attending some birthday a few years ago, the morning after I woke up a little happier; I don't think it's unrelated.
> *Most relationships either end or progress to the point of living together.
Especially if you're going to have children.
Especially if you're going to have children.
...and unplanned pregnancies are more common than people think.
Just curious, how old were you during this period, and how old are you know?
Separate beds!
That's literally the least important aspect of that situation.
What is the issue with living with someone that people fear?... It is being smothered and losing personal space and freedom. Separate bed(rooms) treats the issue for 8 hours of the day. It's helpful more than the initial evaluation might suggest. It works on a physocological level having the option of going to bed early alone.
honestly, after intercourse i prefer if her sweaty body wasnt wrapped around mine during the night when I'm trying to sleep
I understand that JG Ballard lived apart from his partner of 40 years.
I once sat down and listed everything I wanted to do that don't really require other people. Not like "watch this TV show", but REALLY want to do. Learning some topics, traveling to certain places, some software projects, etc.
My list is very, very, VERY long (and includes some long term things), and I'd have to live a few hundred years to do it all. That's if I had no social life whatsoever. I took several sabbaticals (including a 2 years one), long vacations, etc. I can't even dent the list.
Ive been married for years and I'm very happy, mainly my wife is absolutely awesome, but even before meeting her I did just fine for almost a decade alone (I lived alone and didn't really go out to social events. By choice. Because of that long list. Too much I want to do!).
Now we have a lot of mutual friends, go out, lots of events, etc. But when I'm thinking of vacations, all I want to do is stay home with headphones on for 2 weeks without anyone talking to me. I could easily do it for years: I have before. If something was to happen and I ended up single, I'd probably just do that until I'm too old to take care of myself.
My list is very, very, VERY long (and includes some long term things), and I'd have to live a few hundred years to do it all. That's if I had no social life whatsoever. I took several sabbaticals (including a 2 years one), long vacations, etc. I can't even dent the list.
Ive been married for years and I'm very happy, mainly my wife is absolutely awesome, but even before meeting her I did just fine for almost a decade alone (I lived alone and didn't really go out to social events. By choice. Because of that long list. Too much I want to do!).
Now we have a lot of mutual friends, go out, lots of events, etc. But when I'm thinking of vacations, all I want to do is stay home with headphones on for 2 weeks without anyone talking to me. I could easily do it for years: I have before. If something was to happen and I ended up single, I'd probably just do that until I'm too old to take care of myself.
I live with a roommate. We're friends. He's like the only "social life" I have and it's not much. Just work at restaurant, work at home (web).
Often I'm fueled by the drive of escaping poverty. Sometimes though I actually feel bored. I just stop and lose momentum. Binge eat, pass out, feel bad at lack of progress. Like what is my life for? What do I enjoy?
I dream of working/living in a city but I'm also afraid of crowds/new people haha.
I don't know I want to be exposed to nature more like seeing grass, feeling heat, blue sky... I just spend most of my time in a box staring at screens. There is always something on, music, some show/movie.
I used to live in a fraternity house and was not really the cool guy I don't know throughout school I just wanted to be cool/fit in. I don't know I wasted a lot of time/money made a hole for myself.
After I crashed my car a few years back (nothing major just broke a tie rod), I didn't fix it. I became unemployed and I enjoyed the freedom of sleeping/waking whenever. This was also when I tainted myself financially and now (future) I realize my mistake.
I then committed myself to learning webdev. This thought of building high traffic websites and getting rich entered my mind (did not happen). I guess I couldn't commit to school. Man time flies. So yeah that's what I pursue, freedom.
Often I'm fueled by the drive of escaping poverty. Sometimes though I actually feel bored. I just stop and lose momentum. Binge eat, pass out, feel bad at lack of progress. Like what is my life for? What do I enjoy?
I dream of working/living in a city but I'm also afraid of crowds/new people haha.
I don't know I want to be exposed to nature more like seeing grass, feeling heat, blue sky... I just spend most of my time in a box staring at screens. There is always something on, music, some show/movie.
I used to live in a fraternity house and was not really the cool guy I don't know throughout school I just wanted to be cool/fit in. I don't know I wasted a lot of time/money made a hole for myself.
After I crashed my car a few years back (nothing major just broke a tie rod), I didn't fix it. I became unemployed and I enjoyed the freedom of sleeping/waking whenever. This was also when I tainted myself financially and now (future) I realize my mistake.
I then committed myself to learning webdev. This thought of building high traffic websites and getting rich entered my mind (did not happen). I guess I couldn't commit to school. Man time flies. So yeah that's what I pursue, freedom.
Probably a negative thought but the one thing I notice in conversations is it immediately turns to "me" and it's prevalent in many places particularly YouTube comments.
Give me attention sort of thing. (I'm guilty of this too) but you're talking to someone and they immediately turn it to about themselves/compare/bigger-better than your thing.
Of course the YouTube comments section isn't a great source of examples in civil society. Maybe this is what conversing is, relating one's experience to others to show comprehension/care.
I just did it here with my initial response haha.
Give me attention sort of thing. (I'm guilty of this too) but you're talking to someone and they immediately turn it to about themselves/compare/bigger-better than your thing.
Of course the YouTube comments section isn't a great source of examples in civil society. Maybe this is what conversing is, relating one's experience to others to show comprehension/care.
I just did it here with my initial response haha.
Everything all humans have ever said and done were merely disguised ways of sneaking in "me" in the conversation.
Don't worry about it. If you're not already, keep fit and healthy as much as you can. Not to get rich or attract women etc, but for yourself.
For your career, the end goal might seem far away, but each step forward is progress.
For your career, the end goal might seem far away, but each step forward is progress.
Yeah the diet part is hard, genetics is on my side thankfully but not with regard to heart (hypertension). I'm trying to figure out an inexpensive healthy diet to follow. I know extensive resources online. The other problem is sleep, freedom to go to sleep whenever/wake up whenever and of course get to work.
Yeah it's slow progress but it's there.
Thanks
Yeah it's slow progress but it's there.
Thanks
1 - You can just focus on your own interests, and you don't have to cater to the needs, wants, or whims of anyone else.
2 - You can do what you want, when you want.
3 - You don't have to worry about pleasing people, or not offending them.
4 - You don't have to attend any boring social functions.
5 - You'll save a ton of money on drinks, restaurants, and travel.
6 - You could learn a lot more, if that's what you choose to do with all your extra free time.
There are downsides too, of course, but this thread is about the upsides.
2 - You can do what you want, when you want.
3 - You don't have to worry about pleasing people, or not offending them.
4 - You don't have to attend any boring social functions.
5 - You'll save a ton of money on drinks, restaurants, and travel.
6 - You could learn a lot more, if that's what you choose to do with all your extra free time.
There are downsides too, of course, but this thread is about the upsides.
If the downsides are depression and misery, all the upsides are irrelevant.
> I calculated that, on average, I was spending 22 hours or more each week on social activities.
This is the premise the article builds upon, and IMO it's already a bit too much. I've done both: go out every night and don't go out for a noticeable enough period. Both are bad, both are draining. Even if going out means stepping outside your comfort zone, you should do it.
> 5 - You'll save a ton of money on drinks, restaurants, and travel.
Not all of these are equivalent in value and not all are that expensive. The expenses are usually negligible compared to other stuff mortgages, leases etc (depending on tastes, but usually holds for tech people).
> I calculated that, on average, I was spending 22 hours or more each week on social activities.
This is the premise the article builds upon, and IMO it's already a bit too much. I've done both: go out every night and don't go out for a noticeable enough period. Both are bad, both are draining. Even if going out means stepping outside your comfort zone, you should do it.
> 5 - You'll save a ton of money on drinks, restaurants, and travel.
Not all of these are equivalent in value and not all are that expensive. The expenses are usually negligible compared to other stuff mortgages, leases etc (depending on tastes, but usually holds for tech people).
"If the downsides are depression and misery, all the upsides are irrelevant."
Who said that just because you don't have a social life you must be miserable or depressed?
There are plenty of people who are ok with or even enjoy being alone, and really don't like to socialize much if at all.
Who said that just because you don't have a social life you must be miserable or depressed?
There are plenty of people who are ok with or even enjoy being alone, and really don't like to socialize much if at all.
> Who said that just because you don't have a social life you must be miserable or depressed?
Well it depends on how one defines social life. But historically a lone human is a dead human. Depression does have an evolutionary advantage in that you are less likely to approach potentially violent strangers. The lowered energy levels make you sleep longer and reduces your visibility. The misery is probably just a motivating force so that you seek out your tribe.
Well it depends on how one defines social life. But historically a lone human is a dead human. Depression does have an evolutionary advantage in that you are less likely to approach potentially violent strangers. The lowered energy levels make you sleep longer and reduces your visibility. The misery is probably just a motivating force so that you seek out your tribe.
People in solitary confinement go crazy, quite literally. Humans need contact with other humans - that however does not mean wild parties every evening.
Happy loners tend to have few friends/colleagues/family they talk with. That is not nearly the same as no social life at all.
Happy loners tend to have few friends/colleagues/family they talk with. That is not nearly the same as no social life at all.
>who said that being alone = depression
As a loner, I will say that.
http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2006-03906-014
As a loner, I will say that.
http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2006-03906-014
Do you not have many close relationships with people or do you just choose not to spend too much time on social activities like the author did?
Both
Same here.
Worked out perfectly for a while but crushed me eventually.
Not a path I want to go through ever again.
Some people might be cut out to be hermits, I am not.
Worked out perfectly for a while but crushed me eventually.
Not a path I want to go through ever again.
Some people might be cut out to be hermits, I am not.
[deleted]
Regularly going out more than once or twice a week sounds absolutely exhausting, and more likely to make me feel depressed and miserable than staying in every night for prolonged periods.
22 hours of social activity a week sounds absolutely insane. I think the last time I was anywhere close to that was in the dorms in college, where "social activity" was as simple as "pop next door for a bit".
22 hours of social activity a week sounds absolutely insane. I think the last time I was anywhere close to that was in the dorms in college, where "social activity" was as simple as "pop next door for a bit".
> 22 hours of social activity a week
I wonder how "social activity" is defined in this context. For example, I regularly spend my evenings in the local hackerspace. My primary goal is to write some code or configure something on my servers, or just to read some HN or play Minecraft. That's all stuff that I could do at home, but the hackerspace gives the chance of having the occasional chat when someone brings up an interesting topic (and the possibility of an expert sitting next to me when I run into some weird problem).
Do the hours spent at the space count as social interaction, or only those few minutes when I have a chat?
I wonder how "social activity" is defined in this context. For example, I regularly spend my evenings in the local hackerspace. My primary goal is to write some code or configure something on my servers, or just to read some HN or play Minecraft. That's all stuff that I could do at home, but the hackerspace gives the chance of having the occasional chat when someone brings up an interesting topic (and the possibility of an expert sitting next to me when I run into some weird problem).
Do the hours spent at the space count as social interaction, or only those few minutes when I have a chat?
was as simple as "pop next door for a bit"
I wonder if that's half the problem, we make socialising so expensive in terms of organising, travel and scheduling that it becomes a drain. Popping next door doesn't have much cost.
I wonder if that's half the problem, we make socialising so expensive in terms of organising, travel and scheduling that it becomes a drain. Popping next door doesn't have much cost.
Same. 22 hours of social activity would leave me paralyzed.
On the flip side of things, going into a relationship specifically to try to solve your depression, misery, or loneliness can lead to unhealthy relationships.
> 2 - You can do what you want, when you want.
How does having social life prevents you from doing what you want and when you want?
How does having social life prevents you from doing what you want and when you want?
"How does having social life prevents you from doing what you want and when you want?"
Let's say you want to go to see one movie, but all your friends want to see a different one. Or maybe you don't feel like seeing a movie at all, but your friends are going.
Or there's a party on Friday, but you don't feel like going out. Or maybe you just want to stay home and read a book.
There are countless other situations where you might want to do one thing, but social obligations, situations or friends are pulling you to do something else.
Let's say you want to go to see one movie, but all your friends want to see a different one. Or maybe you don't feel like seeing a movie at all, but your friends are going.
Or there's a party on Friday, but you don't feel like going out. Or maybe you just want to stay home and read a book.
There are countless other situations where you might want to do one thing, but social obligations, situations or friends are pulling you to do something else.
How is that preventing you from doing what you want to do more than not socializing does?
You're simply being forced to choose between two things you want, because you can't do both. That happens even when you're alone -- or at least, I haven't figured out the correct method of writing in my (paper) journal and taking a shower at the same time. Or taking bong hits while swimming. Or napping while playing video games. Or....
This doesn't sound like you're being prevented from doing what you want, when you want -- you just can't do two things you want at the same time. But this isn't unique to socializing.
(It also sounds like failing to take responsibility for your choices so you don't have to deal with being forced to choose between them and can blame Them for forcing the decision.)
You're simply being forced to choose between two things you want, because you can't do both. That happens even when you're alone -- or at least, I haven't figured out the correct method of writing in my (paper) journal and taking a shower at the same time. Or taking bong hits while swimming. Or napping while playing video games. Or....
This doesn't sound like you're being prevented from doing what you want, when you want -- you just can't do two things you want at the same time. But this isn't unique to socializing.
(It also sounds like failing to take responsibility for your choices so you don't have to deal with being forced to choose between them and can blame Them for forcing the decision.)
You don’t always have to do whatever your friends want to. Having social life does not mean spending 100% of time satisfying your friend’s desires, most people have social life because it’s what they want, and in periods when they don’t want it - they can stay home and do what they want, while if you don’t have a social life at all - you can’t do that, because most probably you don’t have friends to begin with.
> there's a party on Friday, but you don't feel like going out. Or maybe you just want to stay home and read a book.
"Tonight's an at-home night for me. You guys have fun."
"Tonight's an at-home night for me. You guys have fun."
This is why it's beneficial to have multiple circles of friends.
> How does having social life prevents you from doing what you want and when you want?
Going to weddings for people I don’t know and office parties where I don’t work come to mind.
Going to weddings for people I don’t know and office parties where I don’t work come to mind.
Even going to weddings of people I do know is sheer torture to me. I hate weddings.
I also feel like a fish out of water at parties, and very rarely enjoy them. Usually they're just depressing and leave me wondering why I'm spending time with these people.
I also feel like a fish out of water at parties, and very rarely enjoy them. Usually they're just depressing and leave me wondering why I'm spending time with these people.
I’ve thought the same but view it as a weakness
Same. 'Going out' is just stressful and/or depressing.
Honestly, if you are wondering "why I'm spending time with these people", you should find a different group of people.
People you are excited to share with, see and spend time with.
Good groups of people are hard to find, but make a big difference.
People you are excited to share with, see and spend time with.
Good groups of people are hard to find, but make a big difference.
If "what you want" isn't a social activity, or "when you want" conflicts with when your friends are available, then having a social life gets in the way of other things you'd like to do.
Because the time is limited, and because two actors in a relationship have opposite desires, goals, obligations, etc. (where to eat, what movie to see, what party to attend.
7. You never pass your genes on to another generation. That's the tradeoff of not having kids, you fail at life.
Huh? I am all in favor of people having kids and know it is necessary for society... But are you saying you can't pass on other stuff to the next generation? An example of this is teachers, i.e. a teacher who had no kids but who did nothing but did a great job of teaching kids, teaching and inspriring, but didn't socialize with anyone (except with parents during conferences or to the extent necessary with other teachers & administrators)... would you say they "failed at life"?
Yes, that's failing at life, which is generally defined as biological propagation. It's success in memetics, but not genetics.
i tend to read "life" as the experiential aspect of existing, and pursuing my desires.
"failure" and "success" are notions relative to goal achievement, and biology doesn't have goals - it's a mechanistic process.
"failure" and "success" are notions relative to goal achievement, and biology doesn't have goals - it's a mechanistic process.
>>"failure" and "success" are notions relative to goal achievement, and biology doesn't have goals - it's a mechanistic process.
Of course biology has goals. Every living organism's goal is to propagate its genes to the next generation. For details on this, read The Selfish Gene.
Of course biology has goals. Every living organism's goal is to propagate its genes to the next generation. For details on this, read The Selfish Gene.
I haven't read The Selfish Gene, but from what I've heard it tells the exact opposite: That every gene's goal is to propagate, for which task it merely employs the living organism.
Talking about "goals" and "desires" can sometimes be a usefully simplified way to think about biology, but it's not really accurate. A bacterium doesn't "want" to reproduce anymore than a rock "wants" to roll downhill. Only quite complex animals can be truly said to have goals.
Life is the characteristic that distinguishes organisms from inorganic substances and dead objects. (WP)
Anyone who made it through the childhood and has no plan to die soon succeeded at life. You probably mistaking it with reproduction, which is often required as ability, not as demand.
It is also pretty rough to label fertile ones as losers.
Anyone who made it through the childhood and has no plan to die soon succeeded at life. You probably mistaking it with reproduction, which is often required as ability, not as demand.
It is also pretty rough to label fertile ones as losers.
Humans are not exactly rare around these parts, and we have many modes of transmission other than genetic. You may fail at biological propagation, but we've got more freedom than the amoebas to define success. :)
I'd say if you've defeated your genetic programming, its a win.
Decreasing the number of people on this planet by lowering birth rate greatly increases the chances of survival of humanity as a whole.
Sounds like a greater success...
Sounds like a greater success...
Realize that the people who don’t care are going to be the only ones left - what makes you less deserving of kids?
Your fallacy is assuming that the desire for kids is passed on to children. If that were so, people without the desire to have kids would have died out thousands of years ago. Reality disagrees with that conclusion.
I think GP's point is more along the lines that people who care less about grand things like society and the planet tend to also reproduce more.
... and consume less, because their baseline for consumption is typically shared multi-generational living and relative poverty in a developing country.
Not necessarily. This works for developed countries too. As an illustration, see e.g. the premise of the movie "Idiocracy".
The theory of evolution implies that the desire for kids must be passed on to children. The modern environment just means that genes that formerly led to positive results in the environment we evolved in, in the modern environment accidentally make people vulnerable to antinatalism. If the modern environment persists, those genes will die out.
The idea that offspring is the only thing you can give to the world is patently false.
You must be a very strong advocate for human cloning. Imagine how much you could win by if there were millions of your progeny.
Kind of reminds me when I lived on my own for a while, I really started liking my own company and reading, watching stuff, staying up late and generally doing what I felt I liked best. It wasn't negative really I'd just go to the gym, bake a cake, watch a few documentaries, attempt to learn some code, it was overall a nice experience.
Then I realised that I was liking my own company too much and people weren't all they were cracked up to be. I thought for my own mental health it was best to break this deadlock and start integrating myself more with friends.
Then I realised that I was liking my own company too much and people weren't all they were cracked up to be. I thought for my own mental health it was best to break this deadlock and start integrating myself more with friends.
Your experience seems related to my issue ever since I left college.
I really enjoy my personal time and relish the idea of coming home on a Friday with no social plans or obligations, so that I can do my own thing, read, or program some personal projects. I highly value learning, and it is hard for me to be disciplined if I'm being social during the week. So sometimes I just keep to myself all week. I exercise after work, come home and make a nice dinner, program and read about the things I love, and I love doing this.
My problem is that after doing this for extended periods of time, I actually start to get sad and feel like I'm constantly optimizing my life for nothing, because what's the point of life if you don't share it with others? So then I switch gears and try to be as social as possible, and start enjoying life as I meet new people and come home late at night after an epic outing with my friends, laying down in my bed feeling happy and satisfied with my decisions (a significant part of this feeling is being drunk for sure). And slowly but surely, the feeling comes creeping up: I've lost touch with who I am, everything I learned weeks ago was for nothing because now I'm forgetting it, and I'm wasting my time and hurting my future by being too social.
I guess it's just hard for me to strike a balance. I think I like to go all in on things and so I feel like this chronic teeter-totter is going to be my life for a while.
I really enjoy my personal time and relish the idea of coming home on a Friday with no social plans or obligations, so that I can do my own thing, read, or program some personal projects. I highly value learning, and it is hard for me to be disciplined if I'm being social during the week. So sometimes I just keep to myself all week. I exercise after work, come home and make a nice dinner, program and read about the things I love, and I love doing this.
My problem is that after doing this for extended periods of time, I actually start to get sad and feel like I'm constantly optimizing my life for nothing, because what's the point of life if you don't share it with others? So then I switch gears and try to be as social as possible, and start enjoying life as I meet new people and come home late at night after an epic outing with my friends, laying down in my bed feeling happy and satisfied with my decisions (a significant part of this feeling is being drunk for sure). And slowly but surely, the feeling comes creeping up: I've lost touch with who I am, everything I learned weeks ago was for nothing because now I'm forgetting it, and I'm wasting my time and hurting my future by being too social.
I guess it's just hard for me to strike a balance. I think I like to go all in on things and so I feel like this chronic teeter-totter is going to be my life for a while.
You are overthinking it - a balance is not hard to achieve. Go out a few days a week, learn the rest. You are most likely to get invited to go out Friday and Saturday nights, so spend weekday nights or Sunday studying. No need to go all out in one or the other.
> I've lost touch with who I am, everything I learned weeks ago was for nothing because now I'm forgetting it, and I'm wasting my time and hurting my future by being too social.
In my experience, not only does the former happen even when I am full time learning (I "wasted" a lot of nights in college learning programming stuff I never used nor can remember), but it rarely hurts my career. I mean, career goals are personal and differ, but I doubt you are hurting your career by going out every now and then.
> I've lost touch with who I am, everything I learned weeks ago was for nothing because now I'm forgetting it, and I'm wasting my time and hurting my future by being too social.
In my experience, not only does the former happen even when I am full time learning (I "wasted" a lot of nights in college learning programming stuff I never used nor can remember), but it rarely hurts my career. I mean, career goals are personal and differ, but I doubt you are hurting your career by going out every now and then.
Word. Humans are inherently social beings. Even from birth, physical touch changes rate of brain development for the better. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201310...
Really good book on relationships and humans as fundamentally social is Attached. Leaving ya with the final memo from Chris McCandless, independent adventurer from 'Into the Wild': "Happiness only real when shared"
Really good book on relationships and humans as fundamentally social is Attached. Leaving ya with the final memo from Chris McCandless, independent adventurer from 'Into the Wild': "Happiness only real when shared"
I actually read Into the Wild when I was younger and that was the quote I was channeling. That quote has resonated with me ever since and reshaped the way I think about relationships and what it means to be happy.
>because what's the point of life if you don't share it with others?
That seems like an assumption created by social pressure. There are plenty of aspects that make life worthwhile that don't need to be shared.
That seems like an assumption created by social pressure. There are plenty of aspects that make life worthwhile that don't need to be shared.
It's an interesting question. Certainly, received wisdom in my own family is that shared experience is what creates meaning in our life and memories. However, one can find many successful figures in history (Nikola Tesla, etc.) who were certainly 'successful', nominally happy, and relative or declared hermits. I've met real world hermits who seem content. One of the big European self-help authors got his start as an antisocial homeless person meditating on Buddhism. Discipline and a lifelong love of learning and intellectual exploration are not automatic traits... perhaps those without these types of developed habits find it harder to obtain fulfillment in relative solitude?
You don't need many friends, you need a wife that would listen to your stories, and to focus on your hobbies.
God help anyone who has to listen to my stories! I wonder how my partner does it!
At the time I as single and not really looking for anyone else in an emotion or physical way, 8 years later and I'm still not married. bu that's fine. As a sidebar, I'm not really that hot on the concept of marriage, not that I don't believe in monogamy, I just don't think I need to get the State involved in the validation of my love for and monogamous commitment to another person. Although to keep family sweet and social norms I'll probably get the piece of paper.
At the time I as single and not really looking for anyone else in an emotion or physical way, 8 years later and I'm still not married. bu that's fine. As a sidebar, I'm not really that hot on the concept of marriage, not that I don't believe in monogamy, I just don't think I need to get the State involved in the validation of my love for and monogamous commitment to another person. Although to keep family sweet and social norms I'll probably get the piece of paper.
Not only are you assuming their gender/spousal preferences, but I feel this grossly simplifies the issue.
Not everybody needs a "wife" (maybe you should have said partner) and I'm not sure why you are assuming that would help the poster.
Not everybody needs a "wife" (maybe you should have said partner) and I'm not sure why you are assuming that would help the poster.
OP said 'wife' and we all understood what op meant. There is nothing negative to his comment, why are you implying there was?
It’s ok to sometimes make some assumptions in order to make your point more digestible and keep the conversation flowing.
As to why he thinks getting a wife would help the poster: I’d bet visarga had the experience of getting a wife or some kind of partner, and found that it helped him through a similar problem the poster is having.
It’s ok to share your anecdotal experiences. This is an Internet forum, not somebody’s peer reviewed dissertation.
As to why he thinks getting a wife would help the poster: I’d bet visarga had the experience of getting a wife or some kind of partner, and found that it helped him through a similar problem the poster is having.
It’s ok to share your anecdotal experiences. This is an Internet forum, not somebody’s peer reviewed dissertation.
Fixed for opposite gender: You don't need many friends, you need a husband that would listen to your stories, and to focus on your hobbies.
Thanks for sharing, I think we had a very similar experience, I'm actually not a drinker, never took to it, so I guess I never experience that side of it.
This mirrors my own feelings about this. I often rely on my friends bothering me to hangout ("It's been two weeks!") as a signal it's been too long.
Incomplete story? Not sure you make a strong case for "for my own mental health its best", cause it sounded like things were quite good.
Personally, I'm a micro-social-er. I joke with my son (and now, girlfriend) that we have an empty restaurant habit. I see and interact with people in my (admittedly) pretty regimented lifestyle (gym 1 or gym 2, daily trips to grocery stores 'cause i cook most of my foods, etc), movies alone, etc.
I find socializing to be kind of like carbs... they're free and plentiful in the world. You can usually find someone to do something sometime in the next two weeks.
Where people seem to fall apart on this is when they get a sense, on a Thursday, that they NEED to socialize the next day and can't lock in a participant. But that seems like poor planning more than, "I've been abandoned".
Personally, I'm a micro-social-er. I joke with my son (and now, girlfriend) that we have an empty restaurant habit. I see and interact with people in my (admittedly) pretty regimented lifestyle (gym 1 or gym 2, daily trips to grocery stores 'cause i cook most of my foods, etc), movies alone, etc.
I find socializing to be kind of like carbs... they're free and plentiful in the world. You can usually find someone to do something sometime in the next two weeks.
Where people seem to fall apart on this is when they get a sense, on a Thursday, that they NEED to socialize the next day and can't lock in a participant. But that seems like poor planning more than, "I've been abandoned".
I've been around the block with this issue myself. I've always needed less social interaction than most people I know, but recently I've taken a turn towards even more time alone than usual (a medical condition has me both cooking at home very frequently and doing anything I can to avoid stress, and a few key friends have become busy with marriage and kids).
More time alone has definitely reduced my stress load, but I've noticed it seems to amplify tendencies towards depression and anxiety.
This touches on a topic I often struggle with -- the advice to push yourself out of your comfort zone. At least with social anxiety and social ineptitude, my results seem to indicate that pushing myself results in a huge spike in stress, with maybe a tiny uptick in social savvy, whereas isolation drastically reduces that stress, but with no headway on becoming less socially awkward. The tradeoff seems very lop-sided (if becoming a social butterfly requires swallowing that much stress, I'm not sure it is worth it).
I'm starting to think the "push yourself" is a piece of advice which seems universally applicable at first glance, but upon closer inspection you find it doesn't always fit.
More time alone has definitely reduced my stress load, but I've noticed it seems to amplify tendencies towards depression and anxiety.
This touches on a topic I often struggle with -- the advice to push yourself out of your comfort zone. At least with social anxiety and social ineptitude, my results seem to indicate that pushing myself results in a huge spike in stress, with maybe a tiny uptick in social savvy, whereas isolation drastically reduces that stress, but with no headway on becoming less socially awkward. The tradeoff seems very lop-sided (if becoming a social butterfly requires swallowing that much stress, I'm not sure it is worth it).
I'm starting to think the "push yourself" is a piece of advice which seems universally applicable at first glance, but upon closer inspection you find it doesn't always fit.
My worry is maintaining relationships. I'd happily be the guy who only socializes on Saturday, but I worry about the effects of not meeting with my group of friends as often as they meet with each other.
Same experience here.
And I am repeating the experience : I have just moved to another continent. I am not the most social person ever but once I will be settled in (there are a ton of formalities in order to get an SSN, open a bank account, rent a place, etc), I will make sure to subscribe to yoga, cooking classes or whatever else I find interesting in order to ease myself into this new place and try to meet new people.
BTW advice on meeting new people in the US/Cali is welcome.
I can function with very minimal social interactions, but on the long run I find it a very boring and unsatisfactory life.
So I have been pushing myself more and more to go out and meet new people.
And I am repeating the experience : I have just moved to another continent. I am not the most social person ever but once I will be settled in (there are a ton of formalities in order to get an SSN, open a bank account, rent a place, etc), I will make sure to subscribe to yoga, cooking classes or whatever else I find interesting in order to ease myself into this new place and try to meet new people.
BTW advice on meeting new people in the US/Cali is welcome.
I can function with very minimal social interactions, but on the long run I find it a very boring and unsatisfactory life.
So I have been pushing myself more and more to go out and meet new people.
Meetup.com is a pretty effective way to meet with people who also want to form social circles. As are sports meets, such as cycling groups. And maybe the best of all is volunteerism. Sign up to volunteer for something you think is worthwhile and you'll make new friends lightning fast.
Thanks for the advice, definitely appreciated !
I was in the same boat as you (moved from Canada to LA by myself). You have the right idea with yoga and cooking classes. I highly recommend a social dance class too. I've been doing salsa dancing for about 6 months now and it's a great way to meet new friends, especially those of the opposite gender. It's also nice to surround yourself with non-engineers too. Since you dance with everyone in the class you end up talking to everyone, unlike yoga (which I also love doing) where people tend to just get up and leave.
I was a hopeless dancer to start but after you go for about a month you get a hang of it. The only thing I regret was not joining sooner.
I was a hopeless dancer to start but after you go for about a month you get a hang of it. The only thing I regret was not joining sooner.
Thanks !
I am at the hopeless dancer step too, so it might be hard at first but it could be a fun (if embarassing) challenge !
I am at the hopeless dancer step too, so it might be hard at first but it could be a fun (if embarassing) challenge !
I am fond of telling people that I have danced on six continents and that I'm actually a horrible dancer. That doesn't stop me from dancing, however. I will get out on the floor, in the middle of a circle in the desert, around a fire in a field, etc... I just get out there and wiggle with the music.
I don't even care if I can't dance. I care that I try and I care that I enjoy it. So, I've poorly danced on your continent, quite probably. Life is short, so I dance with passion and not with skill.
I don't even care if I can't dance. I care that I try and I care that I enjoy it. So, I've poorly danced on your continent, quite probably. Life is short, so I dance with passion and not with skill.
Which continent are you missing? I went to a dance party in Antarctica (Freezing Man, 2016). It was strange, but a lot of fun. There were a lot of balloons, and due to the dryness, they clung to my beard very well. Unless I moved my head too much.
haha
As long as you enjoy doing it, it does not matter what your skill level is :)
I don't really enjoy the experience so far but it might come with a bit more skill.
As long as you enjoy doing it, it does not matter what your skill level is :)
I don't really enjoy the experience so far but it might come with a bit more skill.
One of my favorites was dancing wildly around a fire in Somalia. We didn't even share much of a language and the alcoholic beverages where some horrific concoction whose only saving grace was that it was efficiently effective.
Ah, but we danced. People even put aside their firearms to dance. I don't know what we were celebrating, but celebrating is what we did.
As near as I can tell, there were no specific dance moves and, every once in a while, you'd be pushed into the center of a circle of dancers. Once in the center, it was your chance to shine. Just let go of your inhibitions and move as the music moves you.
Somewhere, there is video of this episode. I've shown it to the missus, we weren't together at the time. She's concluded that my dance reminds her of the mating ritual of the blue-footed booby but sped up by a factor of ten.
I'm reluctant to tell people what they should do, so I will say that dancing like nobody is watching (even if they are) is a great release.
Ah, but we danced. People even put aside their firearms to dance. I don't know what we were celebrating, but celebrating is what we did.
As near as I can tell, there were no specific dance moves and, every once in a while, you'd be pushed into the center of a circle of dancers. Once in the center, it was your chance to shine. Just let go of your inhibitions and move as the music moves you.
Somewhere, there is video of this episode. I've shown it to the missus, we weren't together at the time. She's concluded that my dance reminds her of the mating ritual of the blue-footed booby but sped up by a factor of ten.
I'm reluctant to tell people what they should do, so I will say that dancing like nobody is watching (even if they are) is a great release.
I've found that most of the time I'm good with my own company, but after about 3 days I need some substantive social interaction for best mental health. Exercise can sometimes be an effective substitute, though.
> Doing nothing can be as equally energising as time out spent with people, and is in fact necessary in order to recharge, says Pedro Diaz, CEO of the Workplace Mental Health Institute in Sydney.
Hmm, who's this guy?
> Driven by an obsession for better outcomes in workplace mental health, Pedro Diaz founded The Workplace Mental Health Institute as a boutique educational resource for managers serious about creating immediate and sustainable changes for their organisation’s mental health.
What's a "boutique educational resource"? That's a phrase I've never in my days encountered.
This article is stating nothing but the obvious: that living by a calendar maniacally filled to bursting is not the road to happiness.
> "We find that people who are dual-centric tend to be healthier, do better at work and do better at home," says Galinsky [co-founder of the Families and Work Institute].
"Dual-centric" apparently means "not monomaniacal."
Hmm, who's this guy?
> Driven by an obsession for better outcomes in workplace mental health, Pedro Diaz founded The Workplace Mental Health Institute as a boutique educational resource for managers serious about creating immediate and sustainable changes for their organisation’s mental health.
What's a "boutique educational resource"? That's a phrase I've never in my days encountered.
This article is stating nothing but the obvious: that living by a calendar maniacally filled to bursting is not the road to happiness.
> "We find that people who are dual-centric tend to be healthier, do better at work and do better at home," says Galinsky [co-founder of the Families and Work Institute].
"Dual-centric" apparently means "not monomaniacal."
For some reason some people here seem to equate having social life with going on night long parties, for me social life is riding a bike at 6 am with my best friends and stopping for a cup of coffee along the ride and have a good conversation, playing soccer on weekends with a bunch of people. You don’t need to go dancing and drinking at 1 am at a night club to have social life.
dancing till 3am and biking at 6am are two sides of the same coin. Both will "kill" a good chunk of your "free time".
Like most things in life, moderation is probably the wisest path... I have had a very limited social life for the past 5 years. Working from home, putting most of my energy into my work and family. The work was a success... the company grew and got sold. The family did just OK. Personally, I have no friends left because I stopped seeing them. I stopped going to kung fu classes. I just stopped doing things, like the article said. And 5 years later, I find myself realizing that yes, there were upsides to being at home and working... but I do not think I am a better person for it. I actually think I'm kinda boring and quite stagnant, and it is a bit of a letdown to have to come to terms with that.
So a few weeks or a month of that sounds fine. But again... moderation in all things. (Don't be like me.)
So a few weeks or a month of that sounds fine. But again... moderation in all things. (Don't be like me.)
Depends on the kind of person you are. While I love getting along with people and making acquaintances, I am extremely introverted by nature. I just spent two weeks essentially by myself, and it was a GODSEND. Others that rely on friends probably would think otherwise.
I attribute my feelings from growing up as an only child, but I absolutely love doing things by myself. I prefer traveling by myself, doing hobbies by myself, going to the theater by myself. All of those things may seem lonely to others, but honestly, it works for me.
Welcome to adulthood. This is how it looks like for many grown up people for whom social duties are a chore and who prefer career, time alone and early sleep.
I'm seeing a lot of one-to-one connections being made between social activities and social obligations. Weddings can be torture and less of a choice. Parties can be fun or torture and are optional. Nobody's ever said "Man I'm so happy at this point in my life. I've been to 6 weddings this month!". On the other hand, my summer has been one of the best in recent memory due in no small part to the people I've spent it with in varying capacities. Solitude is super important sometimes, but so is human interaction with different people. Not for everyone of course. I think it helps to modulate your social investments. Maybe you don't want to go to parties, weddings, socials, birthdays, whatever. Fine. Fuck them. Empower yourself to say fuck them. If all you're doing socially is keeping up appearances, then you'll be miserable. Try taking one person that you value out for coffee once a week. Not the same person every week at the same time. Vary it.
Well... that's my pocket of change.
Well... that's my pocket of change.
I can relate to the notion of 'deep work' benefiting from solitude. I think I am odd in that I love company and have lots of friends due to growing up where I live, but I spend very little time with them. This became a conscience choice in my late 20s and led me to develop a lot of skills (guitar, penmanship, running/swimming/biking, reading, mountaineering, etc...) which, oddly, make the time I spend with people richer (I think).
As with most things, it seems like the best advice is to do what works for you. I have friends that go stir-crazy without some nightly social interaction, whereas I would rather delve in to personal endeavors on my own. I don't think either one is 'better' in any sort of existential way.
That said, it is amazing how many people who socialize regularly are constantly complaining about how unfulfilling social functions are.
As with most things, it seems like the best advice is to do what works for you. I have friends that go stir-crazy without some nightly social interaction, whereas I would rather delve in to personal endeavors on my own. I don't think either one is 'better' in any sort of existential way.
That said, it is amazing how many people who socialize regularly are constantly complaining about how unfulfilling social functions are.
One thing to take into account is the quality of ones potential associates.
I could share an apartment with my best friend (we deployed together so we’ve lived in close proximity) and be happy but if I had to suffer just one evening a week with people who weren’t great friends I think I’d be a lot less happy.
I could share an apartment with my best friend (we deployed together so we’ve lived in close proximity) and be happy but if I had to suffer just one evening a week with people who weren’t great friends I think I’d be a lot less happy.
Since moving to CA I am having trouble building up a social circle. I am fine doing things alone and often enjoy it but what I miss is new things you can do and learn through friends. Things I wouldn't have the opportunity by myself. Like when someone has a sailing boat and takes you for a trip, or you can go with someone to a concert backstage or drive an expensive car. I definitely miss that.
I hate to say it, but this is painfully lacking in self awareness.
Only if OP never shared anything back with these friends. One of the joys of friendship is sharing special experiences with them that they might not do on their own.
" I hate to say it, but this is painfully lacking in self awareness. "
Can you explain this comment?
Can you explain this comment?
I've never been on a friend's sailboat, I've never been backstage at a concert through a mate. If missing that is the worst you have to deal with, good luck to you sir.
What does this have to do with a lack of self-awareness?
To lament the loss of these things that most people never have the chance to experience might be interpreted as flaunting. Or perhaps I'm just bitter, don't take it to heart.
Poorer friends can introduce you to cheap entertainment you would not know otherwise too. Like seeing movie you would not care about seeing before, borrowing a book or a video game you would not try otherwise. Going on bicycle trip you would not go otherwise. Talking about their jobs which I completely different then yours.
While his examples were all rich friend things (so I guess he socialized only with rich people), the phenomenon exists universally.
While his examples were all rich friend things (so I guess he socialized only with rich people), the phenomenon exists universally.
Nonsense. I don't know maybe rich people. The backstage thing was with a guy working for a concert promotor who made much less than any SW developer. The boat was with a guy who made as much as I do and had bought a boat which he worked on all the time. The car was a Lotus Super Seven which is cheaper than most SUVs.
You can do a lot of cool stuff without much money if you are willing to put in some effort and have some imagination.
If you have a friend in another country you can have a great vacation for cheap there. For example I know a diving instructor who lives on the Maledives. Find a cheap flight and you have a great trip that sounds expensive but isn't.
You can do a lot of cool stuff without much money if you are willing to put in some effort and have some imagination.
If you have a friend in another country you can have a great vacation for cheap there. For example I know a diving instructor who lives on the Maledives. Find a cheap flight and you have a great trip that sounds expensive but isn't.
You definitely sound bitter. Good luck!
I don't think @Boothroid sounds bitter. I frankly think your comment is just bizarre because all 3 examples you listed make it seem like you're looking for a benefactor, not a friend whose company you enjoy over a cup of coffee while laughing at mundane, stupid shit.
See my other comment. Have some imagination and put your money into interesting things instead of shiny iPhones, restaurants, hotels or a new car every year. Most people here make much more than the average citizen.
I do a compromise - when I work I am isolated, 100% focused, then I throw a big party with a lot of diverse people (artists, technologists, regular folks) and get my socialization fun as well. I love cooperating with other super capable people (that is very rare due to societal push for stupid competition) but can do world-class stuff on my own as well when no other option is available.
Do you have an example of 'world-class stuff?' I am just trying to understand.
Unique algorithms not produced by anyone before or products that are first of their kind world-wide and in demand. Won't be more specific as I don't want to get doxxed for some of my future posts.
I don't know; there is definitely a basal need for a community, but these days, it just seems so artificial.
>I was spending 22 hours or more each week on social activities.
I often get envious of people having that much social time.
But the fact is that I would not be able to cope with it. Talking to people and having good interesting conversations is extremely energy intensive.
I often get envious of people having that much social time.
But the fact is that I would not be able to cope with it. Talking to people and having good interesting conversations is extremely energy intensive.
In the short term, it is good to "reframe" yourself, like a monk mode.
monk mode good mode - no need to be social, it will come as a reflection to how you are with yourself. Faking it for the sake of conformism is going to eat at your core.
For sure, but I also enjoy to live socially, especially climbing the social ladder.
This is how I've been living my life for years now. It's not all sunshine and rainbows (we can't live without other humans), but I've found myself far happier and exceedingly productive.
Is productivity that good? I’m that way too but I hate myself for it
Ask why you hate yourself for it. I went through a similar patch and realized it's because the world around me lives a dissimilar/opposite lifestyle. The thing that unhinged me was this quote:
> “However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.” - Winston Churchill (supposedly, seems to be misattributed).
When I read this, I started to look at folks differently. I started to ask "do I want what they have? Are they where I want to be?" If not, try the opposite direction. Enough people have the other side covered; be an explorer and see what the other life is like. Sure, I could be "wrong," but life is subjective—live it how you want. No need to be guilty.
> “However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.” - Winston Churchill (supposedly, seems to be misattributed).
When I read this, I started to look at folks differently. I started to ask "do I want what they have? Are they where I want to be?" If not, try the opposite direction. Enough people have the other side covered; be an explorer and see what the other life is like. Sure, I could be "wrong," but life is subjective—live it how you want. No need to be guilty.
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The only upside I found to not having a social life was cost.
Well this thread is depressing, if you're not wanting to interact with other people for fun then what is the point exactly? No one ever says they wished they did more work on their deathbed.
Life is more than just work and social interaction. From the article:
> I was able to build in more concentrated pockets of work where I otherwise wouldn’t, but I also gravitated to activities that were previously neglected – the gym, practising the piano, and meditation.
This resonates with me. If I were to die tomorrow, my biggest regret would probably be focussing too much on work and social interaction at the expense of other pursuits.
> I was able to build in more concentrated pockets of work where I otherwise wouldn’t, but I also gravitated to activities that were previously neglected – the gym, practising the piano, and meditation.
This resonates with me. If I were to die tomorrow, my biggest regret would probably be focussing too much on work and social interaction at the expense of other pursuits.
in a free society some people will choose to disassociate themselves from it.
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Sure, marriage and family
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Chiba-City(2)
I really found this to be an excellent balance. I had a space that I was proud of and had complete control over, eliminating entire categories of possible conflicts in life. I had plenty of time for my own pursuits. I was in a very meaningful relationship. I went into the weekends excited to see people, and I went into the workweek feeling socially fulfilled and ready to be productive.
This is a very difficult balance to maintain. Indeed, it's almost impossible. Most relationships either end or progress to the point of living together. In fact, most folks would say there's something "wrong" with a relationship if the couple has been together for years but chooses not to live together.