Shimano wants to make your bike as smart as your car(outsideonline.com)
outsideonline.com
Shimano wants to make your bike as smart as your car
https://www.outsideonline.com/2252181/wired-bike
112 comments
The whole point of electronic gear switching is that there is no slack in the lines - the shifters communicate wirelessly with the derailleur and the derailleur uses a small motor to execute the gearshift. It's actually awesome in practice - gearshifts are crisp and perfect each time, without the need for frequent adjustment or dealing with issues such as cable stretch and dirt. The batteries last a few months and if they die, you're stuck in one gear (you can change it at the side of the road with your hands if you get stuck in an undesirable one) - no big deal.
For a commuter / daily-driver bike without weight concern, I think a belt-driven internal planetary gearset with electronic shifting would be ideal as the bike nearly becomes a sealed unit, without any exposed grease or need for lubrication or adjustments.
For a commuter / daily-driver bike without weight concern, I think a belt-driven internal planetary gearset with electronic shifting would be ideal as the bike nearly becomes a sealed unit, without any exposed grease or need for lubrication or adjustments.
I don't currently have much to add on the simplicity vs tech standpoint, but electronic shifting has been out for a while and there aren't really any problems with it.
Someone I know rides every day and said the battery lasts for about 4 months (looks like newer versions are rechargeable as well). There aren't any cables in the shifting mechanism. It is a set of shifters that are wirelessly connected to the derailleur.
Someone I know rides every day and said the battery lasts for about 4 months (looks like newer versions are rechargeable as well). There aren't any cables in the shifting mechanism. It is a set of shifters that are wirelessly connected to the derailleur.
FWIW, Shimano Di2 batteries have always been rechargeable.
SRAM's eTap wireless shifting system has a mix of rechargeable batteries on the derailleurs and non-rechargeable CR2032 batteries in the shift/brake levers.
I don't know what Campagnolo does, because I'm not interested in farm machinery. It is probably rechargeable by sending it back to an Italian specialist every two weeks. ;)
SRAM's eTap wireless shifting system has a mix of rechargeable batteries on the derailleurs and non-rechargeable CR2032 batteries in the shift/brake levers.
I don't know what Campagnolo does, because I'm not interested in farm machinery. It is probably rechargeable by sending it back to an Italian specialist every two weeks. ;)
That's the SRAM system. Shimano has cables.
That said, I prefer my home built fixie: cheap to get great components, easy to maintain, and damn fun to ride.
That said, I prefer my home built fixie: cheap to get great components, easy to maintain, and damn fun to ride.
I agree with you but Shimano has kind of built their entire business in the bicycle market on planned obsolescence, changing the number of gears to make equipment incompatible every few years and then making the highest end shifting electronic (and incompatible with prior versions) when they reached the practical limits of chain width for bicycles (they tried introducing a new standard chain size for bicycles that required replacing all the drive train components but that got rejected by the market, also they had more competitors back then). On the other hand Shimano dominates the bicycle market for bicycle components now and it's still only a tiny portion of their business - they sell a lot more fishing equipment.
This is a pretty good point. I also wonder how fixable bikes will be once they're "smart" and whether or not will still maintain "the right to fix".
One of the reasons why I absolutely love cycling, is that my bikes (and those of friends and relatives) are one of the only things left in my life I can fix myself, I save money and learn a lot from doing it, it's rewarding and incredibly cheap.
It would be really disappointing to see parts become a black box, more expensive and disposable.
Leave it to the eBikes I say.
One of the reasons why I absolutely love cycling, is that my bikes (and those of friends and relatives) are one of the only things left in my life I can fix myself, I save money and learn a lot from doing it, it's rewarding and incredibly cheap.
It would be really disappointing to see parts become a black box, more expensive and disposable.
Leave it to the eBikes I say.
That's another thing that gives me worries - or motivation. The electronical components are virtually guaranteed not to interoperate with competitor products (I hope I'm wrong though).
While electronics should open new hackability options, I'm afraid that's just not going to happen. ANT+ standard, for example, requires an NDA before you can make an implementation. Bike computers themselves don't have a serious open option (Jazda needs more work before it can be sold).
While electronics should open new hackability options, I'm afraid that's just not going to happen. ANT+ standard, for example, requires an NDA before you can make an implementation. Bike computers themselves don't have a serious open option (Jazda needs more work before it can be sold).
Brake lights would be a great addition, however. During fast stops, especially while commuting, it's nearly impossible to signal.
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In Copenhagen people raise their hand to indicate a stop. I wish we'd adopt this in the U.S.
Do people have three hands in Copenhagen, because last time I checked my bike had two handbrakes, and I have to use both of them to stop safely?
A lot of people in Copenhagen (and other European cities) ride bikes with rear pedal breaks or “coaster brakes”. Which makes signalling easier as you have a free hand when breaking!
Also worth checking out is this signalling guide! [1]
[1] https://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/technique/essential-guide-r...
Also worth checking out is this signalling guide! [1]
[1] https://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/technique/essential-guide-r...
Not a professional bike mechanic (I build bikes as a hobby) but in general your front brake should be set up to be powerful enough on its own. This requires clean rims, and clean, non-worn, non-hardened brake pads.
But the front brake is normally controlled by the left brake lever, and signals are supposed to be given with the left hand. I've seen it argued that since most people are right-handed, and the front brake does most of the work and therefore deserves the most careful modulation, the usual practice is backwards: the right level should be for the front brake. I guess this is another reason. It makes sense to me, I guess, but not so much that I've actually bothered to swap the cables on my bike :-)
Anyway, in the wet it isn't always safe to use only the front brake.
Anyway, in the wet it isn't always safe to use only the front brake.
In the UK the front brake is on the right.
The general non-emergency braking advice with derailleur bikes is to switch gears before stopping. While I can't speak for others, I do it at the same time. That requires a braking hand and a shifting hand.
If you have to use both brakes to stop your bike then your brakes are too weak.
Unless you're a 230lb cyclist coasting down a hill at 45mph and need to make a quick stop because a car up ahead does something stupid. I guarantee you that both brakes are required in that situation.
ANT+ lights connected to a Garmin computer do this today.
Totally wireless.
Totally wireless.
Turn signals...
Could it just be a small and lightweight LED panel that flashed a bright arrow pointing in the intended turn direction?
With LED, it can be pretty efficient and still be really bright. I would think a blinking bright arrow would be fairly universally understood.
Could it just be a small and lightweight LED panel that flashed a bright arrow pointing in the intended turn direction?
With LED, it can be pretty efficient and still be really bright. I would think a blinking bright arrow would be fairly universally understood.
One issue is that now a lot of riders are using blinking lights all the time when riding for visibility reasons (during the day), so the arrow would need to be big enough to differentiate and visible front and back so now we could be talking about something much more obtrusive. If they're on the back, there's a limit to how big one can go (on easy to mount positions) because the rider's legs/feet/butt will strike protruding things from the bicycle.
Could they turn that blinking light into a an arrow at the appropriate time? I ride a motorcycle and have upgraded all my signal lights to the maximum legal output.
I would probably test to see if changing the colors was also effective. I don't think it would have to all that large, maybe half the size of an automobile license plate. When it is just going down the road, flash white. When it is turning, flash orange or red - in the shape of an arrow.
I'd test that and see how people responded to it. It might not even have to be that large. I'd just want to make it large enough that the arrow can be made out clearly and from, say, 100 feet away. The changing color may also help.
I suppose orange would be fairly standard and might be a good color choice to try.
I would probably test to see if changing the colors was also effective. I don't think it would have to all that large, maybe half the size of an automobile license plate. When it is just going down the road, flash white. When it is turning, flash orange or red - in the shape of an arrow.
I'd test that and see how people responded to it. It might not even have to be that large. I'd just want to make it large enough that the arrow can be made out clearly and from, say, 100 feet away. The changing color may also help.
I suppose orange would be fairly standard and might be a good color choice to try.
Those sound like good ideas, though something that big would still have an issue fitting on something other than a recumbent or cargo bikes (often see lights that size already on those now).
I was thinking about that and it could just attach to the frame and then use something like an aluminum pole to hold it out over the rear tire. It'd be light and adjustable.
It'd look dorky, but it might save lives. I doubt it would add much weight or reduce aerodynamics very much, at least not as regular rider speeds. It's not like they would use it while racing.
It'd look dorky, but it might save lives. I doubt it would add much weight or reduce aerodynamics very much, at least not as regular rider speeds. It's not like they would use it while racing.
Turn signals can help folks that have to bike up a hill and want to indicate they are turning. :)
For the rest, I agree it increases the failure likelihood, but it is probably heavily mitigated in some cases by the fact that most of the power can be generated by the biker. These are not large gears, so the shifting capabilities probably don't require plugging in. And they should "fail to on" such that if they go dead on power, you just can't shift. Can still use the gear you are in.
For the rest, I agree it increases the failure likelihood, but it is probably heavily mitigated in some cases by the fact that most of the power can be generated by the biker. These are not large gears, so the shifting capabilities probably don't require plugging in. And they should "fail to on" such that if they go dead on power, you just can't shift. Can still use the gear you are in.
Turn signal would be useful. Just yesterday morning I was almost hit by a car when I was merging from bike lane to left turn lane.
You can just use your hands to indicate your intention to turn, this is done all over the world and AFAIK the accepted method of indicating without having any electronics.
Yeah of course I did that, but some drivers just know nothing about cyclists. Give them something they are more familiar with would certainly help.
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Anything you strap to a bike has to be reliable. If there is one thing you can say about mechanical systems it is that we know how to design them so they last the lifetime of a bike (wear parts excluded), anything electrical or electromechanical will have a shorter life than the equivalent that uses only mechanical parts. Just look at your average bicycle light set, even after I don't know how long we still can't make a set that lasts more than a couple of years.
The key to mechanical longevity is maintenance, a bit of oil and a bit of care and this stuff will last a lifetime. How many electronics bits and pieces do you know or do you have that have lasted > 20 years? > 30 years?
Case in point a friend has a Shimano bike with electric shifters. Super nice bike, but super fragile. One trainride and a very thin and fragile cable got lodged in the gears.
Several long hours of work later I have it working again (this only happened last week), oh, and never mind the $45 crappy little cable with custom plugs which gets plugged into an in-frame patch panel that is just about impossible to get to. I don't see any advantage over my mechanical stuff, in fact I see a significant disadvantage. Electronics and bicycles don't mix well unless you are prepared to make things bullet proof and that will price them right out of the market. So I don't see this as a viable path, a novelty, something on very high end bikes but not something that will stand the test of time.
The key to mechanical longevity is maintenance, a bit of oil and a bit of care and this stuff will last a lifetime. How many electronics bits and pieces do you know or do you have that have lasted > 20 years? > 30 years?
Case in point a friend has a Shimano bike with electric shifters. Super nice bike, but super fragile. One trainride and a very thin and fragile cable got lodged in the gears.
Several long hours of work later I have it working again (this only happened last week), oh, and never mind the $45 crappy little cable with custom plugs which gets plugged into an in-frame patch panel that is just about impossible to get to. I don't see any advantage over my mechanical stuff, in fact I see a significant disadvantage. Electronics and bicycles don't mix well unless you are prepared to make things bullet proof and that will price them right out of the market. So I don't see this as a viable path, a novelty, something on very high end bikes but not something that will stand the test of time.
> Just look at your average bicycle light set, even after I don't know how long we still can't make a set that lasts more than a couple of years.
You're probably right about the average bike lights. But the good folks at Light and Motion make some incredible products. USB-rechargeable, bright, easily removable, and pretty durable in my experience.
http://www.lightandmotion.com/
You're probably right about the average bike lights. But the good folks at Light and Motion make some incredible products. USB-rechargeable, bright, easily removable, and pretty durable in my experience.
http://www.lightandmotion.com/
Since we're talking about it, are there any decent brands still making dynamo bike lights (the ones that are powered by the turning of the wheels)?
There are quite a few, mostly German. For the hubs themselves look at Schimdt SON, Shutter Precision, or Shimano. For lights, Busch & Muller, Schmidt, or Supernova.
Most dynamo lights use a reflector (more like a car headlight than a normal bike light or flashlight) so despite the lower lumen output they can actually provide much more useful light on the road.
Most dynamo lights use a reflector (more like a car headlight than a normal bike light or flashlight) so despite the lower lumen output they can actually provide much more useful light on the road.
Thanks!
Seconding this, they make a rear light so bright my 94 year old grandfather can see it in daylight.
Which I have to say sucks for the rider behind you. If you demand that level of visibility get a high vis vest. Personally I err on the side of assuming every car will try to kill me. It's kept me alive in SF, London, and worse places where most people are scared to bike on roads for good reason (New Mexico).
For maximum visibility safety when riding alone, I turn on the maximum-output, blinking mode (which IIRC is actually illegal in some other countries). But when group riding, dim it down and turn it on to the solid-on mode.
Electronics, if weatherproofed properly, will last a very long time. They don't have any wear and tear like mechanical parts so I'm not sure what would degrade other than the battery or misc connectors.
Capacitor electrolytics.
Air bubbles in silicon, thermal expansion, and a zillion day night cycles.
Humidity and dust enter, contributing to occasional momentary shorts.
Oxidation anywhere you have electromechanical connections.
Magnetic stresses on any coil, any rectifier.
Air bubbles in silicon, thermal expansion, and a zillion day night cycles.
Humidity and dust enter, contributing to occasional momentary shorts.
Oxidation anywhere you have electromechanical connections.
Magnetic stresses on any coil, any rectifier.
Transistor aging: https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/processors/transist...
(Not likely to affect anything you'd mount on a bicycle, over any span of time relevant to a bicycle.)
(Not likely to affect anything you'd mount on a bicycle, over any span of time relevant to a bicycle.)
Or shock causes a supercap lead to shear off, etc. I guess everything could be epoxy potted but then it isn't repairable.
Cables, servos, brushes, switches and so on.
The in-frame patch panel (aka junction box) may require pulling a few other things off the bike like the cranks (if access is through the BB cluster) which is often only a few minutes work when you have the correct tools.
Which leads to the fact that many bike tools are incredibly specific, and require updating almost more often than the parts they are meant to be used with. Insert old joke about standards and having so many to choose from - but that's an issue that stands to the side of electronic against mechanical parts.
Which leads to the fact that many bike tools are incredibly specific, and require updating almost more often than the parts they are meant to be used with. Insert old joke about standards and having so many to choose from - but that's an issue that stands to the side of electronic against mechanical parts.
A "Work-horse" version of this would be very ideal. I will start looking into this technology when i see bike messengers and the like using it
Unlike others on this thread, I love where this is headed. I'd love to have a really smart bike.
However, once I have that much tech on a bike, it would be impossible to park it anywhere without the risk of being stolen.
However, once I have that much tech on a bike, it would be impossible to park it anywhere without the risk of being stolen.
It's already impossible to park a non department store bike of any value anywhere in an urban area of the United States without the risk of it getting stolen. It's probably one of the factors in why some people might not commute for errands even if everything else was favorable - a bike decent enough to warrant a ride is a target for thieves. The bike thief community in San Francisco/Oakland/Santa Cruz has been thriving since all the locals I know here have been kids in the 80's (when Lemond revived the upscale bike industry in the USA.)
This is plainly not true. In 99% of America (read: not cali, nyc, etc) if you lock your bike up it won't get stolen.
You'll have to add Portland and Seattle to that list as well as any city with a large university. If there is a large community of cyclists, there will be bike thieves working hard to separate them from their bikes.
I will grant you by virtue of there being more people in California and New York City, there will be more of everything. But for there to be $350,000,000 US worth of bicycles stolen every year (estimate is old) the problem is more common than you might think.
https://priceonomics.com/post/30393216796/what-happens-to-st...
I'm in a suburb and had the seat stolen off a department store bike.
I have some friends in San Diego and they had department store bikes not visible from the street in a fenced in carport and they were stolen so now they lock their replacement bikes up and painted them to look like junk.
So bring a skateboard or scooter if you're doing a quick errand. You can easily bring them inside, and if it's stolen you're only out $100-200.
Though I made a grumpy old man comment on this thread, I understand that some people want more tech on their bike and that's fine too, if it gets you riding more.
I just worry there will be a bit of a donut hole problem. Where at the high end you have super smart bikes with electronic everything and on the low end carbon steel big box store bike and nothing in-between.
I just worry there will be a bit of a donut hole problem. Where at the high end you have super smart bikes with electronic everything and on the low end carbon steel big box store bike and nothing in-between.
> without the risk of being stolen
There's tech for that, too. ;-)
There's tech for that, too. ;-)
I wouldn't ever park my nice bikes anywhere in any case. They're either in the garage or a few feet from me.
The grumpy old man in me likes my bike to be as mechanical as possible, I don't want to remember to charge my shifters, power meter, gps, etc. Maybe that's why I still ride a 1989 Trek 1200 with down tube shifters and biopace chain rings.
I'm 30, but I have been riding the same 1983 Motobecane since high school as my main commuter bike (~50 miles a week). Down tube friction shifters make maintenance on the road very easy.
That said I can't vouch for the biopace rings...
That said I can't vouch for the biopace rings...
Motobecane! May I interest you in something perhaps 30 pounds lighter? ;-)
Even having gears at all can be a bit annoying, with the newer groupsets having a million gears in the cassette and proprietary chains. I really love my fixed gear.
Your fixie still has that greasy, dirty chain to deal with. I'm sticking with my 1886 Columbia Standard high wheeler. Two pedals, two wheels, and a place to sit. That's all you need.
(To be read for comedic purposes only. I don't actually ride that one to work.)
(To be read for comedic purposes only. I don't actually ride that one to work.)
Fix gears are fine as are non-fixed single speeds, but I need my variable mechanical advantage for hills, maybe if I lived in Chicago I'd be all in for a fixie.
You didn't even change the biopace rings? Those are murder on your knees. Can you even buy biopace rings anymore?
Nishiki Shields 1974 over here.
The bike is the most elegant mechanical systems in history, elevating humans from earth's least efficient creatures to it's most efficient.
Electronic shifting and other boondoggles completely undermine the reliability, elegance and simplicity of bikes.
I've fixed my bike while on the side of a mountain a hundred miles from home and ridden home.
What happens when my derailleur firmware crashes?
Electronic shifting and other boondoggles completely undermine the reliability, elegance and simplicity of bikes.
I've fixed my bike while on the side of a mountain a hundred miles from home and ridden home.
What happens when my derailleur firmware crashes?
Beyond singlespeeds, I don't think bikes are that reliable or elegant, at least for 2017. The drivetrain is especially bad, I'm open to any proposed improvements there (gearboxes! i'm similarly meh on electric shifting, but it can solve some real problems). There are so many issues - exposed mechanical parts which collect dirt, bad/sticky cable housing, cable stretch, chain stretch, gear wear, floppy derailleur which causes the chain to come off and chain slap which can damage your frame. As for reliability, drivetrains last only 5k miles or so depending on conditions. Chains need re-lube every 5th ride or so. As for design outside of the drivetrain, derailleurs put the majority of the weight on the rear wheel which isn't ideal for suspension or center of gravity. They are also easily broken because of their location
I'm excited for https://pinion.eu/en/gearboxes/. It is designed to last a long time and not need maintenance (we'll see about that...)
I'm excited for https://pinion.eu/en/gearboxes/. It is designed to last a long time and not need maintenance (we'll see about that...)
Oh goodness, have you ridden a full carbon dura ace racing bike? I've had one for 13 years and it's still as reliable, and elegant as the day I got it. No electronics. The bicycle equivalent of a super car.
> As for reliability, drivetrains last only 5k miles or so depending on conditions.
Do you mean chains?
Do you mean chains?
Bicycles are one of the few remaining non-trivial, non-electric machines that ordinary people use.
I'd prefer to leave them alone.
Seriously, I have a hard time thinking of many machines that fit that description.
I'd prefer to leave them alone.
Seriously, I have a hard time thinking of many machines that fit that description.
Most bicycle people including myself feel that way. However, what I like about this attempt to make bikes safer (ie turn signals and the like) is that it might make people who don't feel safe on a bike actually ride their bike. Bikes for everyone!
[deleted]
Lots of negativity in here. Most bikes with DuraAce components already aren't the sort of thing you'd leave out on a city street unattended.
One cool thing that stood out to me was that these monitors will transmit data over ANT+ or Bluetooth. As someone who already tracks all my workouts w/ a Garmin watch, I welcome the ability to track more metrics like power output. Gives you a good way to objectively track your progress over time when training for events and can help you gauge the impact of sleep, alcohol, etc on your performance.
One cool thing that stood out to me was that these monitors will transmit data over ANT+ or Bluetooth. As someone who already tracks all my workouts w/ a Garmin watch, I welcome the ability to track more metrics like power output. Gives you a good way to objectively track your progress over time when training for events and can help you gauge the impact of sleep, alcohol, etc on your performance.
Change hating old men yelling at clouds can be annoying but are a sign of progress.
I'm with you there; love my power meter. But there's a difference between electronics that just give you extra metrics vs electronics that have to be functioning in order for the bike to work!
The other nice thing about BT instead of IR is you eliminate the risk of cross contaminating signals. This is most likely a common cycling in the 90s story but I use to have a heart rate monitor and one guy I would ride with had the same device. His monitor would usually pick up my signal, but not vice versa.
I would like to see American magazines taking a more critical look at these lights. Like virtually all bike front lights sold in the USA, the Garmin UT800 has a circular beam, making it pretty much useless for anything. Proper bike lights have asymmetric projection beams that put the light on the road, not up into the sky. Unfortunately an American bicyclists who wants one of those lights is pretty much obligated to import one from Germany, where bicycle lighting is a matter of law. It seems really weird that these very bright, very expensive flashlights are the only thing available in US bike shops.
what brands would you recommend? I've been looking for exactly what you're talking about.
I have a few Busch & Mueller lights I like. To my knowledge only Peter White Cycles sells them in US.
My (mid-previous-century, tech-free and entirely disconnected) bike is already way "smarter" than any modern "device". Precisely because its overall (non-)complexity is an exact fit for the role it's designed to perform. And, while long out of production, any reasonably competent bike mechanic on the planet can make expert repairs to, just from a quick visual inspection (and a catalog or two to order compatible parts from).
The Rearview Radar exists because of how terrible seeing behind you is on a bicycle. I ride a recumbent tricycle, and I simply have a mirror on the side which I can easily keep an eye on; due to my sitting position I conveniently behold the road before and behind me, unlike a road bike where it’s constant effort to do the same.
I really wish recumbent tricycles were more popular. The story of the exclusion of recumbents from races is rather sad.
I really wish recumbent tricycles were more popular. The story of the exclusion of recumbents from races is rather sad.
Mainly because of bike snobbery: mirrors are seen as for dummies. [0]
I have a rearview mirror on my road/commuter bike that replaced the plug on the bar end and it works a treat.
[0] http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/#66
I have a rearview mirror on my road/commuter bike that replaced the plug on the bar end and it works a treat.
[0] http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/#66
I find that mirrors don’t work particularly well on bikes (I had one years ago but gave up on it), but the implementation works superbly on a trike, because the vehicle is wider, the rider’s position more conducive to using a mirror (not constantly craning your neck) and there’s actually a good place to mount it.
Bicycle-building has replaced my obsession with building PCs. Unlike PCs, bike performance doesn't follow Moore's Law -- bikes make forty years ago, if kept in decent condition, are still going to be better bikes than a new bike purchased at Walmart or Target.
I'm old-fashioned, but I generally want able-bodied folks to get on the saddle if they can, whether it's an old clunker or a new e-bike. Shimano makes amazing electronic components, but what about the cheap competitors that start flooding the market with integrated parts that break? Will bikes be salvageable and maintainable beyond that point? Are we going to get into a planned obsolescence situation here?
I'm old-fashioned, but I generally want able-bodied folks to get on the saddle if they can, whether it's an old clunker or a new e-bike. Shimano makes amazing electronic components, but what about the cheap competitors that start flooding the market with integrated parts that break? Will bikes be salvageable and maintainable beyond that point? Are we going to get into a planned obsolescence situation here?
I live in Shenzhen. We moved from Yunnan about six months ago. Yunnan is one of the best places for cycle touring on earth: huge mountains, beautiful forests, great roads, little traffic, camping available but not required, plenty of people who can help you resolve mechanical issues for change. My mountain bike - XTR Shimano components, no lights or electronics at all - is literally in a shipping box, and the comments on this article have inspired me to re-assemble it this weekend.
On another note I'm planning to take a cycle touring trip through Mizoram in far eastern India over Chinese New Year, probably for around three weeks. Anyone crazy enough to want to join? :)
On another note I'm planning to take a cycle touring trip through Mizoram in far eastern India over Chinese New Year, probably for around three weeks. Anyone crazy enough to want to join? :)
Dunno if Shimano is ever going to live down BioPace. At the same time I’m glad clever people kept at it.
https://absoluteblack.cc/oval-104bcd-chainring.html
https://absoluteblack.cc/oval-104bcd-chainring.html
This is the second comment in this thread criticizing the biopace, what exactly was the problem with it? It seems to me that the oval chainring is seeing a resurgence lately (in the MTB community at least).
A couple bikes in my family's fleet have Biopace rings, both having been made around the same time period. What I recall at the time was that they were greeted by a collective yawn because they weren't eccentric enough to have much of an effect.
I just measured a 48T Biopace ring that was in my spare parts bin, and the ratio of major to minor diameter is about 3 percent.
The only annoyance I can think of is that you can't use those rings with a single-speed or gearhub without a chain tensioner.
If they're wrecking your knees, don't push such long gears. Or, rotate the ring by 72 degrees on the crank to pretty much negate the effect.
I just measured a 48T Biopace ring that was in my spare parts bin, and the ratio of major to minor diameter is about 3 percent.
The only annoyance I can think of is that you can't use those rings with a single-speed or gearhub without a chain tensioner.
If they're wrecking your knees, don't push such long gears. Or, rotate the ring by 72 degrees on the crank to pretty much negate the effect.
I never tried one, but I was told they were hard on the knees.
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I love the idea of not having to replace my shifting cables/ adjusting them every few months however, the price is a huge deal for me. I ride my bike to work every day and while i did shell out 200$ for a new 105 crankset, I don't want to have to pay too much more than that for lights/shifting. Maybe a di2 version of the lower market shimano group sets would make that more feasible as a cyclist who doesn't mind occasional maintenance
I'd rather have my car become as "dumb" as my bike.
Automatic lights would be amazing in ridesharing bike systems, like Nike's Biketown that we have here in PDX: https://www.biketownpdx.com/
I see these fancy "smart" features very useful for making biking convenient and simple for very casual biking.
Hard core bikers already are happy for the most part, and probably only care about shaving off marginal amounts of weight.
I see these fancy "smart" features very useful for making biking convenient and simple for very casual biking.
Hard core bikers already are happy for the most part, and probably only care about shaving off marginal amounts of weight.
What are Automatic Lights ?
Um, the article mentions lights several times, and includes a link to these:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/550821#overview
They are lights that automatically turn on when needed. Thus, people don't need to bring a lights for the bike they rent, in case it gets dark, etc. Right now, the Biketown bikes don't include any lights on them, so you basically either bring your own or just don't ride them in the evening.
There are of course other features, like automatic brightness adjustment etc. They can be like daytime running lights for your car.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/550821#overview
They are lights that automatically turn on when needed. Thus, people don't need to bring a lights for the bike they rent, in case it gets dark, etc. Right now, the Biketown bikes don't include any lights on them, so you basically either bring your own or just don't ride them in the evening.
There are of course other features, like automatic brightness adjustment etc. They can be like daytime running lights for your car.
oh low light triggered, I see
None of this is particularly new, but it is being refined.
The R9170 Dura-Ace hydraulic system isn't even complete yet, the power meter crankset is only starting to materialise.
Yet it does represent the 2nd proper generation of electronic shifting and hydraulic braking on road bikes.
None of what is in the article is new, but it is being polished and brought together better. One of the things that I have enjoyed is that with a Wahoo bike computer (or the forthcoming Hammerhead Android based computer), it's now possible to grab your bike... go out and put in a long ride, and without any hassle or prep for your power, heart, cadence, and speed to all be recorded, accurately, auto-uploaded to Strava on your return, and during the ride the buttons on the Shimano R9170 hood can control the screen on the GPS, and the electronic shifting means tired hands on seriously long rides are far less of a problem.
This is now a reality, it's there. That's my daily steed.
That style of bike is also now the default choice of the endurance rider. They learned a few years ago of the benefits of all-weather braking that doesn't fade, electronic shifting to spare the hand.
The fear of flat batteries within Di2 is just not there. If you top up every few months... you'll be fine. You'd need to be doing events like the TransAm or Transcontinental and training on the bike and failing to charge... to even stand a chance at experiencing a flat battery.
Re: the accident alert in the Garmin, I tried a See Sense rear lamp that has this feature and it's pointless. Nothing more than a headline grabber. Far better on lighting just to buy something with a solid bright red light that operates on bog standard AAA batteries and is cheap, my favourite being the GBP 15 Moon Pulsar. For front light I favour Lumicycle, but for rear give me super reliable and easy to find batteries for.
This stuff is all very nice. It's currently top dollar for the Dura-Ace end of the range, but is available in cheaper groupsets, and is also starting to emerge with the Alfine internal hub gear systems. Meaning: It is moving down the range and becoming common.
Cycles will also nearly all go power-assist. They too are maturing at a great rate, and even avid cyclists like myself who have ridden one is now tempted.
Cycles will go electric in all ways. The future is here.
If you're interested, other recent changes in cycling:
+ Frames geometries are changing, the emergence of 3d printing is making bottom bracket and dropout clusters lighter, stronger and more capable
+ Tyres are fatter and lower pressure https://www.schwalbe.com/gb/road-reader/schwalbe-g-one-allro...
+ Tyres are becoming tubeless, like car tyres, with puncture filling gloop to handle everything short of a side-wall failure (but then you can just insert a tube to get you home) https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/buyers-guide-go-tubeless.html...
+ Wheels are getting wider whilst still being aero, and accommodating aero with fatter tyres, helped by disc brakes (allows rims, forks and frames to evolve). Check out Enve SES AR 4.5 wheels https://enve.com/products/ses-4-5-ar/
+ Disc brakes are changing frames so that axles are thru-frame for quick and easy wheel changes and consistent brake alignment https://cyclingtips.com/2015/10/road-bikes-are-headed-toward...
+ Gravel bikes are the new road bikes, striking a balance between cyclocross and road they are adventure or "super versatile" bikes that are fast and have the potential to take a gravel trail occasionally http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/217893-18-best-2017-grav...
+ Bike bags are moving from panniers to under saddle and on the bar, check out Apidura for examples of this. Bike-packing is very on-trend right now https://www.apidura.com/
+ Riding is changing from sportif to weekend and overnight, and clothing is changing too into lightweight and adaptive wear, Rapha Brevet range is an example of this, especially their insulated gilet and jacket http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/brevet/category/brevet
+ Most anticipated new product is probably the Hammerhead computer. Garmin is tolerated and not loved, Wahoo is pretty good but not yet feature complete https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/03/wahoo-elemnt-gps-bike-co... , but the Hammerhead could be excellent and they have the potential to move into Android Wear with some actually excellent apps too https://www.hammerhead.io/
There is nothing in cycling not currently undergoing rapid change. This is an industry overhauling itself to grow it's market by having vehicles and equipment to allow human-assisted transport to be easy, go faster, go farther, be more comfortable, more practical, more lifestyle. This stuff is currently top-end, but it's already moving down and becoming more accessible.
The R9170 Dura-Ace hydraulic system isn't even complete yet, the power meter crankset is only starting to materialise.
Yet it does represent the 2nd proper generation of electronic shifting and hydraulic braking on road bikes.
None of what is in the article is new, but it is being polished and brought together better. One of the things that I have enjoyed is that with a Wahoo bike computer (or the forthcoming Hammerhead Android based computer), it's now possible to grab your bike... go out and put in a long ride, and without any hassle or prep for your power, heart, cadence, and speed to all be recorded, accurately, auto-uploaded to Strava on your return, and during the ride the buttons on the Shimano R9170 hood can control the screen on the GPS, and the electronic shifting means tired hands on seriously long rides are far less of a problem.
This is now a reality, it's there. That's my daily steed.
That style of bike is also now the default choice of the endurance rider. They learned a few years ago of the benefits of all-weather braking that doesn't fade, electronic shifting to spare the hand.
The fear of flat batteries within Di2 is just not there. If you top up every few months... you'll be fine. You'd need to be doing events like the TransAm or Transcontinental and training on the bike and failing to charge... to even stand a chance at experiencing a flat battery.
Re: the accident alert in the Garmin, I tried a See Sense rear lamp that has this feature and it's pointless. Nothing more than a headline grabber. Far better on lighting just to buy something with a solid bright red light that operates on bog standard AAA batteries and is cheap, my favourite being the GBP 15 Moon Pulsar. For front light I favour Lumicycle, but for rear give me super reliable and easy to find batteries for.
This stuff is all very nice. It's currently top dollar for the Dura-Ace end of the range, but is available in cheaper groupsets, and is also starting to emerge with the Alfine internal hub gear systems. Meaning: It is moving down the range and becoming common.
Cycles will also nearly all go power-assist. They too are maturing at a great rate, and even avid cyclists like myself who have ridden one is now tempted.
Cycles will go electric in all ways. The future is here.
If you're interested, other recent changes in cycling:
+ Frames geometries are changing, the emergence of 3d printing is making bottom bracket and dropout clusters lighter, stronger and more capable
+ Tyres are fatter and lower pressure https://www.schwalbe.com/gb/road-reader/schwalbe-g-one-allro...
+ Tyres are becoming tubeless, like car tyres, with puncture filling gloop to handle everything short of a side-wall failure (but then you can just insert a tube to get you home) https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/buyers-guide-go-tubeless.html...
+ Wheels are getting wider whilst still being aero, and accommodating aero with fatter tyres, helped by disc brakes (allows rims, forks and frames to evolve). Check out Enve SES AR 4.5 wheels https://enve.com/products/ses-4-5-ar/
+ Disc brakes are changing frames so that axles are thru-frame for quick and easy wheel changes and consistent brake alignment https://cyclingtips.com/2015/10/road-bikes-are-headed-toward...
+ Gravel bikes are the new road bikes, striking a balance between cyclocross and road they are adventure or "super versatile" bikes that are fast and have the potential to take a gravel trail occasionally http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/217893-18-best-2017-grav...
+ Bike bags are moving from panniers to under saddle and on the bar, check out Apidura for examples of this. Bike-packing is very on-trend right now https://www.apidura.com/
+ Riding is changing from sportif to weekend and overnight, and clothing is changing too into lightweight and adaptive wear, Rapha Brevet range is an example of this, especially their insulated gilet and jacket http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/brevet/category/brevet
+ Most anticipated new product is probably the Hammerhead computer. Garmin is tolerated and not loved, Wahoo is pretty good but not yet feature complete https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/03/wahoo-elemnt-gps-bike-co... , but the Hammerhead could be excellent and they have the potential to move into Android Wear with some actually excellent apps too https://www.hammerhead.io/
There is nothing in cycling not currently undergoing rapid change. This is an industry overhauling itself to grow it's market by having vehicles and equipment to allow human-assisted transport to be easy, go faster, go farther, be more comfortable, more practical, more lifestyle. This stuff is currently top-end, but it's already moving down and becoming more accessible.
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The tech is cool and all but I'll stick with my DuraAce 7400 with down-tube shifters.
I do want the rear radar!!
I do want the rear radar!!
Technology is cool and all, and the Shimano setup is drool worthy. But... I really worry that when it comes to racing, we're creeping away from the manual, purely mechanical tradition of cycling. Safety I can understand, but adding electricity and computers I just can't get used to. Perhaps I'm a young Luddite.
If a bike needs battery replacement, you're doing it wrong.
no, they want to make my bike as smart as someone who bought a lot nicer car than me. it's already easier to change gears on my bike than my car.
Why?
I have a Tesla (2016 Model S, AP2), and let me just say: Can we set the bar a little higher? :-)
>this is the future of bikes, where computer, components, and lights work as one to improve the ride.
oh god. no.
oh god. no.
>this is the future of bikes, where computer, components, and lights work work in harmony with the thief to steal your bike as efficiently as possible
My new bike has integrated everything, carries two kids, a grownup and a rider up hill with a little determination.
"It's reminiscent of a modern car, where you can control all the critical vehicle functions from a few buttons on the steering wheel."
So, one then? The horn?
"Critical" clearly means something different to someone tricking-out a push bike with thousands of dollars of marginally useful kit.
So, one then? The horn?
"Critical" clearly means something different to someone tricking-out a push bike with thousands of dollars of marginally useful kit.
Do you not have a modern car, with their many buttons on the steering wheel?
I do. It has volume bottoms, call answering buttons and others, but exactly ONE essential button, the damn horn which is right in the middle taking up the full width of the wheel center.
I don't know why this observation seems controversial.
I don't know why this observation seems controversial.
No, I do not.
Who really benefits from turn signals? Unless they are mounted on special stalks, it's going to be difficult to understand them anyway.
Other ideas are somewhat useful, like the car detector, or adjustable lights - I already thought about relating headlight power to speed or ambient light in 2011 (shameless plug: when I started working on Jazda - https://rhn.github.io/jazda ). But the power benefits of that may still balance out with the additional electronics needed.