When you don't pay your web developer(greentouchlandscapers.com)
greentouchlandscapers.com
When you don't pay your web developer
http://www.greentouchlandscapers.com/
34 comments
Recently on reddit I answered a question on the /r/webdev subreddit asking about backdoors in websites in case the client doesn't pay[1]. Sometimes webdevs don't quite understand how to deal with clients who don't pay, and the real answer is get a legally binding contract. Most other devs I know don't bother with this though, and leads to some frustrations on their part.
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/7u5965/how_to_add_b...
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/7u5965/how_to_add_b...
What if you had in your terms that the website had to utilize your proprietary javascript injected analytics package until the balance was paid in full? That way you could inject a "didn't pay" popup similar to NYT when you run out of articles.
The client could always edit the code to remove it themselves, of course, but they may not have the skills and if they hire another web developer they'll know they didn't pay the previous one.
The client could always edit the code to remove it themselves, of course, but they may not have the skills and if they hire another web developer they'll know they didn't pay the previous one.
I wonder what if the client sued and then the developer counter-sue for the breach of contract.
lol. A web "developer" that uses Microsoft Word -- Export as HTML..
<o:DocumentProperties> <o:Author>John Raphah</o:Author> <o:Template>Normal</o:Template> <o:LastAuthor>John Raphah</o:LastAuthor> <o:Revision>5</o:Revision> <o:TotalTime>62</o:TotalTime> <o:Created>2018-02-06T15:35:00Z</o:Created> <o:LastSaved>2018-02-06T16:15:00Z</o:LastSaved>
Looking at archive.org's snapshot from 2017.. I wouldn't pay this "developer" either..
https://web.archive.org/web/20170512143057/http://www.greent...
<o:DocumentProperties> <o:Author>John Raphah</o:Author> <o:Template>Normal</o:Template> <o:LastAuthor>John Raphah</o:LastAuthor> <o:Revision>5</o:Revision> <o:TotalTime>62</o:TotalTime> <o:Created>2018-02-06T15:35:00Z</o:Created> <o:LastSaved>2018-02-06T16:15:00Z</o:LastSaved>
Looking at archive.org's snapshot from 2017.. I wouldn't pay this "developer" either..
https://web.archive.org/web/20170512143057/http://www.greent...
Yeah, using tables for layout, a XHTML transitional doctype at the start, inline CSS and a general lack of mobile responsiveness doesn't suggest the most up to date knowledge of web development.
Still, I guess for the 'pay me' page, it could be somewhat assumed to be a simple rush job given the situation involved, so maybe the dev just wanted any old way to get a page up for this rant.
And hey, it's still more modern than this thing was:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160322053716/http://www.webkin...
That's something, right?
Still, I guess for the 'pay me' page, it could be somewhat assumed to be a simple rush job given the situation involved, so maybe the dev just wanted any old way to get a page up for this rant.
And hey, it's still more modern than this thing was:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160322053716/http://www.webkin...
That's something, right?
Oh, wow:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F6Ps67Tpd4M
Still living in 1999.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F6Ps67Tpd4M
Still living in 1999.
Whatever meets the terms of the contract...
That was the first thing I saw looking at the source...
So embarassing
So embarassing
US law doesn't apply to businesses based in Kenya...
http://web.archive.org/web/20160701233200/http://greentouchl...
http://web.archive.org/web/20160701233200/http://greentouchl...
Serious question could a non-payment clause protect you from a client claiming damages from a stunt like this?
For instance could you include a clause that states: "In the event of non-payment, development on the site will cease and will be replaced with a temporary landing page until payment issue is resolved."
For instance could you include a clause that states: "In the event of non-payment, development on the site will cease and will be replaced with a temporary landing page until payment issue is resolved."
Even if you have such a clause, it would be very trivial like @beisner has stated, for client to prove reputation damage and loss of business (even if they weren't making money to begin with).
> it would be trivial for the client to show in court that the dev's actions led to quantifiable damages to their business, and might even be open to criminal prosecution.
Source: @beisner https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16326732
> it would be trivial for the client to show in court that the dev's actions led to quantifiable damages to their business, and might even be open to criminal prosecution.
Source: @beisner https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16326732
Couldn't you add another clause stating that the webdev is not responsible for any reputation damage, loss of business, or any other damages caused by the non-payment landing page?
Try to get a client to agree to such a clause, especially when they've probably already decided the likelihood of not paying the developer at the time they are hiring them.
> Try to get a client to agree to such a clause, especially when they've probably already decided the likelihood of not paying the developer at the time they are hiring them.
Seems to me like that's not a bad thing. If they're not planning on paying in full, you probably don't want to do any work for them. Better to find out sooner than later.
Seems to me like that's not a bad thing. If they're not planning on paying in full, you probably don't want to do any work for them. Better to find out sooner than later.
> especially when they've probably already decided the likelihood of not paying the developer at the time they are hiring them
if they're the sort of client who is planning at contract signing time to not pay, they're the kind of client you don't even want. who cares if they self-select out?
if they're the sort of client who is planning at contract signing time to not pay, they're the kind of client you don't even want. who cares if they self-select out?
Warning: the embedded music video is probably NSFW due to nudity.
Funny.
Though I would have just turned off the record sets for said domain. (assuming I had that control)
Even less effort, more professional response.
Though I would have just turned off the record sets for said domain. (assuming I had that control)
Even less effort, more professional response.
[deleted]
hope you both get paid and don't get into trouble because of this.
Oh no, trouble! That's the worst thing that could happen to someone! Getting in trouble!
People should stand up for themselves more, you deserve to be paid for your work. The client is the only person who should be in trouble. Don't be afraid of trouble.
People should stand up for themselves more, you deserve to be paid for your work. The client is the only person who should be in trouble. Don't be afraid of trouble.
You can't just sabotage your product because you didn't get paid. That just creates two wrongs that do not simply cancel each other out from a legal point of view.
There's a legal system to settle payment disputes. Using it is the civilised, and safe, version of "standing up for yourself".
Many service providers will put up nondescript error pages when the account isn't being paid. That's somewhat safer, but might not apply here: service providers are refusing to continue service. They're not changing a product that was already delivered.
There's a legal system to settle payment disputes. Using it is the civilised, and safe, version of "standing up for yourself".
Many service providers will put up nondescript error pages when the account isn't being paid. That's somewhat safer, but might not apply here: service providers are refusing to continue service. They're not changing a product that was already delivered.
> Don't be afraid of trouble.
Legally speaking, you probably should be. Contracts work when done properly.
Legally speaking, you probably should be. Contracts work when done properly.
You could legit go to jail under the CFAA for a stunt like this.
I was just about to purchase $10,001 worth of services from them and have now decided not to because of the computer trespass by the web developer.
According to https://www.cga.ct.gov/2012/rpt/2012-R-0254.htm that makes it a Class B Felony.
Plus the prima facie tort for the lost business.
Are you sure it's such a good idea to go around looking for trouble like this?
There are plenty of legal recovery avenues without going looking for trouble and pretending it's just standing up for yourself - a defense which will go nowhere in a felony hearing.
According to https://www.cga.ct.gov/2012/rpt/2012-R-0254.htm that makes it a Class B Felony.
Plus the prima facie tort for the lost business.
Are you sure it's such a good idea to go around looking for trouble like this?
There are plenty of legal recovery avenues without going looking for trouble and pretending it's just standing up for yourself - a defense which will go nowhere in a felony hearing.
I guess you assume US laws are applicable everywhere in the world?
I guess you assume that because it's an African country that they don't have computer crime laws ?
http://kenyalaw.org/kl/fileadmin/pdfdownloads/bills/2017/Com...
http://kenyalaw.org/kl/fileadmin/pdfdownloads/bills/2017/Com...
You posted a link to Connecticut laws/regulations in your original post. I don't think that is applicable to Kenya.
FWIW the business is based in Kenya.
I hope he pays you soon, that landing page surely isn't good for business.
The correct way to resolve this depends on the contract the dev signed in the first place. If the dev retains IP under the contract, they may be able to take the website down, or revert it to a previous state. If not, I'm not totally sure. Certainly the dev should refuse to perform any work for the client, and probably should solicit legal advice (relatively inexpensive to take a client to small claims court).