Whistleblowers: Drug company offered 'bribes' to doctors to boost sales(cnn.com)
cnn.com
Whistleblowers: Drug company offered 'bribes' to doctors to boost sales
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/30/health/mallinckrodt-whistleblower-lawsuit-acthar/index.html
39 comments
It is pretty much every industry. The tobacco industry pushed studies and advertising claiming smoking was doctor approved and "healthy". The food industries/companies and their studies claiming cereal and orange juice constitutes a healthy breakfast. The oil industry, pharma, etc.
I think the diminishing value of humans/individuals is a result of overpopulation and industrialization. I don't remember who said it, but cities are now industrial farms for humans and a human being is a commodity/resource. In an industrial society, a human being is fundamentally no different than a cow or a pig on massive industrial farms. Our value is our commoditize productive value.
I think the diminishing value of humans/individuals is a result of overpopulation and industrialization. I don't remember who said it, but cities are now industrial farms for humans and a human being is a commodity/resource. In an industrial society, a human being is fundamentally no different than a cow or a pig on massive industrial farms. Our value is our commoditize productive value.
That's why HR is Human RESOURCES. I believe you are correct in your observation and your comment makes me very sad.
Increasingly? Yeah, in the past this definitively wasn't happening /s
http://www.victorianweb.org/science/health/health1.html
Greed has always been a problem, a constant force we have to counteract.
http://www.victorianweb.org/science/health/health1.html
Greed has always been a problem, a constant force we have to counteract.
"Drug company offered 'bribes' to doctors to boost sales": I don't see how that headline constitutes news to anyone with even just a passing familiarity with how this market works.
I know of doctors in a different country who get paid trips to conferences in the EU and elsewhere for prescribing certain pharmaceuticals over another pharma’s. It’s straight up pay for play. This behavior isn’t restricted to one bad pharma actor either.
My thoughts exactly. Situation in healthcare is utterly dismal. I see prescriptions of very expensive medicine where there are alternative brands (or generics) for a fraction of the price and when people complain (a serious percentage of the price comes off their pockets) doctors respond with vague mumble-mumble about that drug being a new generation.
Unfortunately, there are drugs where the generics don't work as well as the brand. Then it's tricky what to prescribe.
Indeed, incentives like travels, conferences, and gifts are part of all pharmaceutical companies marketing plan. It should become common knowledge to stand a chance to change.
I am originally from Hungary, from a small town. My aunt is an assistant for a child doctor.
Every single doctor here gets approached by multiple drug companies, being offered expensive vacations and similar perks (if not outright money) for prescribing the company's medications.
One particular doctor who is an absolutely disgusting and vile human being describes antibiotics for every ailment. He essentially ruined thousands of children's health for said perks. It got so bad the word spread in the town and apart from the least informed families no one took their children to this doctor if they could avoid it.
But this is just one doctor. The other 2 who practiced here also accepted rewards, but were a bit more sensible with it, but not by much. According to my aunt this is an incredibly widespread problem, and one that has been going on for decades.
I can't imagine anything more atrocious than sacrificing children's health for material gain. A person who is support to protect life and does this... I'm not religious and I seldom wish ill fate to people, but I do hope there is a hell for these kind of people.
Every single doctor here gets approached by multiple drug companies, being offered expensive vacations and similar perks (if not outright money) for prescribing the company's medications.
One particular doctor who is an absolutely disgusting and vile human being describes antibiotics for every ailment. He essentially ruined thousands of children's health for said perks. It got so bad the word spread in the town and apart from the least informed families no one took their children to this doctor if they could avoid it.
But this is just one doctor. The other 2 who practiced here also accepted rewards, but were a bit more sensible with it, but not by much. According to my aunt this is an incredibly widespread problem, and one that has been going on for decades.
I can't imagine anything more atrocious than sacrificing children's health for material gain. A person who is support to protect life and does this... I'm not religious and I seldom wish ill fate to people, but I do hope there is a hell for these kind of people.
1) this is a lot more uncommon than people seem to suggest. Note from this article, they found -288- docs. In a country with a little over 1,000,000 physicians.
2) the real problem is the legislation congress pushed through barring Medicare from negotiating drug prices. “Many of those sales are driven by Medicare reimbursements. A CNN investigation last year found that Medicare spending on Acthar had risen dramatically -- more than tenfold over six years -- to some $2 billion.” the article went ahead and glossed right over it, but if Medicare is your prime payer and can actually push back on price jumps, -this doesn’t happen-.
2) the real problem is the legislation congress pushed through barring Medicare from negotiating drug prices. “Many of those sales are driven by Medicare reimbursements. A CNN investigation last year found that Medicare spending on Acthar had risen dramatically -- more than tenfold over six years -- to some $2 billion.” the article went ahead and glossed right over it, but if Medicare is your prime payer and can actually push back on price jumps, -this doesn’t happen-.
I know a 'pharmaceutical representative'. She is little more than a corporate prostitute - and I mean that sincerely.
She is paid to take doctors on dinner dates, woo them and give them 'free samples', and ensure that they promote her product over all the others. She's admitted to me that she regularly has sex with her clients - and that she's a part of a larger team that covers the entire German market.
Its such a normal, accepted practice, that my surprise at her frank attitude about it was met with a "well, duh, how do you think we stay relevant in such a competitive market?" response ..
She is paid to take doctors on dinner dates, woo them and give them 'free samples', and ensure that they promote her product over all the others. She's admitted to me that she regularly has sex with her clients - and that she's a part of a larger team that covers the entire German market.
Its such a normal, accepted practice, that my surprise at her frank attitude about it was met with a "well, duh, how do you think we stay relevant in such a competitive market?" response ..
She can rationalize as she wants, but in reality she seems to be comfortable living this life. And I am not judging the sex part of it, that's her body so whatever. What seems a bit off is her inability to see her role in the society...
I believe your story completely.
A few years ago a good friend of mine worked as an office manager for multiple gynaecologist offices in a major American city. Lots of small operations so she had multiple clients. She would always joke about the young women coming to push drugs on the doctors, almost all of whom were also women.
It's weird. It would seem to be as much a cultural aspect of sales workers as it is about actually using sex to sell drugs. I don't doubt that male doctors receive sex in exchange for pushing certain drugs, but I think there is a bit more to it as well. There seems to be an expectation that sales people need to be attractive, and if they're not the company doesn't take its business seriously.
A few years ago a good friend of mine worked as an office manager for multiple gynaecologist offices in a major American city. Lots of small operations so she had multiple clients. She would always joke about the young women coming to push drugs on the doctors, almost all of whom were also women.
It's weird. It would seem to be as much a cultural aspect of sales workers as it is about actually using sex to sell drugs. I don't doubt that male doctors receive sex in exchange for pushing certain drugs, but I think there is a bit more to it as well. There seems to be an expectation that sales people need to be attractive, and if they're not the company doesn't take its business seriously.
Salespeople have long wined and dined customers, been charismatic, etc.
I've never heard (in the US) of a practice of salespeople having sex with customers. I'd expect to hear a lot of lawsuits, were that a practice in the US.
It'd be sad if people who are just doing normal sales work (e.g., talking with the customer, understanding and communicating how product could work for them, negotiating deals) were insulted or had their reputations harmed by a suggestion that they were doing something else.
I've never heard (in the US) of a practice of salespeople having sex with customers. I'd expect to hear a lot of lawsuits, were that a practice in the US.
It'd be sad if people who are just doing normal sales work (e.g., talking with the customer, understanding and communicating how product could work for them, negotiating deals) were insulted or had their reputations harmed by a suggestion that they were doing something else.
So its clear, she openly admitted to the fact of her sexual engagement, and was kind of proud of it.
I was speaking of the suggestion that it's a normal, accepted practice. If people thought it was, then they might unfairly assume or suspect of it of many salespeople who do not do that.
you write "unfairly", but you probably mean "incorrectly"
there is nothing unfair about people assuming or suspecting things, we do not regulate each other's thought processes.
there is nothing unfair about people assuming or suspecting things, we do not regulate each other's thought processes.
I see your point, and I could agree to "incorrectly", but would you agree that assumptions and suspicions tend to affect behavior, which would be when the "unfair" comes in?
Don't want salesmen? Remove the market.
I think we can update the names of the old "salesman" tropes to be gender-neutral. I'm pretty sure there are many women in pharma field sales, for example.
Judging by the pharma people that visit my MD's and cardiologist's office, they're all miss america candidates less than roughly 30 years old...
MCI did the same shit back in their day. A sales visit from MCI almost always consisted of 1 each: redhead, blond, brunette all of whom looked like models.
MCI did the same shit back in their day. A sales visit from MCI almost always consisted of 1 each: redhead, blond, brunette all of whom looked like models.
You should see the men too given how many doctors are women. Pharma sales is the most competitive of all sales jobs and doctors one of the hardest professions to sell to. The outcome is unless you has totally stunning and dripping in charm you are not getting into see the doctor.
I worked in sports med and orthopedics for a while and it was about roughly split between models and former pro/semi-pro athletes.
I'm fairly sure there were reports of this happening in the middle of the opioid scandal - the doctors most willing to overprescribe opioids were statistically identified and bribed by the relevant pharma company. Perhaps someone else can find the reference to this?
First heard about this in the documentary Prescription Thug$. The way the industry works in America is bizarre.
Is this a patented drug? If so Congress has the ability to step in and invalidate the patent. Not that they will do it. Those assholes couldn't give a fuck if infants have seizures and die. If not where's the competition? I thought this was a free market. Surely undercutting this price should be easy while still making money. It seems the patent should have expired by itself by now anyway.
There's no patent. But there's no regulatory pathway for developing a "generic" version of this drug. It's probably one of the most egregious examples of price gouging ever and there's little anyone can do about it
This is probably the most egregious example of price gouging in the pharma industry. But it is an outlier and not representative of the whole industry
I feel like there are ~3 groups of high priced drugs:
- straight up profiteering: this is the questcor playbook, that also inspired martin shkreli. companies find cheap old drugs that treat severe rare disease where they can get away with jacking up the price. The companies do no original r&d or new science. This is a rare practice these days and is highly stigmatized in the industry, as this type of practice kicked off a lot of the political debate around drug pricing
- increasing price of "legacy" drugs: big pharma is increasingly bad at r&d. The industry is also in a period where a lot of huge drugs are going off patent. So pharma companies increasingly rely on price increases of mature drugs, rather than development of new drugs, to sustain revenue growth. This is a much bigger phenomenon in dollar terms than the aforementioned profiteering. This is possible mostly for large molecule drugs because the "generic" pathway isn't as mature as small molecules, so the large molecule drugs can have exclusivity after patent expiry. Huge multi billion dollar drugs like humira and enbrel have done this a lot. Private payers are beginning to push back on this pretty effectively, and hopefully as the biosimilars industry matures this will improve.
- innovative, clinically valuable medicines. Some medicines are expensive because they are worth it in health economic terms. The cost per QALY gain is within the "acceptable" range. Most of the industry really does try to develop drugs like these (with varying degrees of conviction), but it's really hard. Companies ideally only want to develop drugs that are first in class or best in class. When that fails (which it usually does) they resort to aforementioned strategies. Unfortunately in many cases these innovative drugs are priced too high. They are often developed by startups and then bought by big pharma once the tech is derisked. Pharma is under huge pressure to grow revenue so they often price these meds too high. Which is a shame bc a lot are amazingly good medicines
Price isn't the only issue though, access is another, although they go hand in hand. Price can be "fair" but access still limited by payers. Copays for drugs are generally higher than for medical procedures, so consumers feel like drug prices are higher than medical procedures, when in reality they are all super high
I feel like there are ~3 groups of high priced drugs:
- straight up profiteering: this is the questcor playbook, that also inspired martin shkreli. companies find cheap old drugs that treat severe rare disease where they can get away with jacking up the price. The companies do no original r&d or new science. This is a rare practice these days and is highly stigmatized in the industry, as this type of practice kicked off a lot of the political debate around drug pricing
- increasing price of "legacy" drugs: big pharma is increasingly bad at r&d. The industry is also in a period where a lot of huge drugs are going off patent. So pharma companies increasingly rely on price increases of mature drugs, rather than development of new drugs, to sustain revenue growth. This is a much bigger phenomenon in dollar terms than the aforementioned profiteering. This is possible mostly for large molecule drugs because the "generic" pathway isn't as mature as small molecules, so the large molecule drugs can have exclusivity after patent expiry. Huge multi billion dollar drugs like humira and enbrel have done this a lot. Private payers are beginning to push back on this pretty effectively, and hopefully as the biosimilars industry matures this will improve.
- innovative, clinically valuable medicines. Some medicines are expensive because they are worth it in health economic terms. The cost per QALY gain is within the "acceptable" range. Most of the industry really does try to develop drugs like these (with varying degrees of conviction), but it's really hard. Companies ideally only want to develop drugs that are first in class or best in class. When that fails (which it usually does) they resort to aforementioned strategies. Unfortunately in many cases these innovative drugs are priced too high. They are often developed by startups and then bought by big pharma once the tech is derisked. Pharma is under huge pressure to grow revenue so they often price these meds too high. Which is a shame bc a lot are amazingly good medicines
Price isn't the only issue though, access is another, although they go hand in hand. Price can be "fair" but access still limited by payers. Copays for drugs are generally higher than for medical procedures, so consumers feel like drug prices are higher than medical procedures, when in reality they are all super high
Stories such as this one highlight the need to address the industry's widespread price gouging head-on. Detecting and punishing the secondary offenses whether they're bribery or peddling off-label uses sub rosa are too unreliable in light of the stakes. We must do better.
The majority of patient facing medical ~professionals are pharma salespeople anyway.
> Drug company offered 'bribes' to doctors to boost sales
Oh wow, such news.
In other shocking developments: water falls from the sky when it rains, and cigarettes are addictive.
Oh wow, such news.
In other shocking developments: water falls from the sky when it rains, and cigarettes are addictive.
As someone outside the U.S. I find this whole pharma-complex absolutely mind-boggling.
Is it really different elsewhere though?
These are the same conglomerate firms everywhere.
The UK bans advertising to the public for prescription drugs, and has a standard cost-effectiveness approval process for what the NHS will prescribe ("NICE"). Drug marketing is a lot less prevalent here.
It's the same in every country on Earth.
Is the rapid increase of population part of the cause? Overpopulation often means the value of each individual will be decreased since anyone is now easily replaceable and becomes irrelevant. There are no signs this trend is going to stop anytime soon. I fear there has to be a massive catastrophic event to happen in order to trigger any societal changes at this level.