Off-Facebook Activity(facebook.com)
facebook.com
Off-Facebook Activity
https://www.facebook.com/off-facebook-activity
145 comments
That's why it's not called clear history anymore...
propose the original comment was more about the behavior of Facebook being mechanized both at interface and internal product culture to be anti traditional Western/free thinking human from the bleeding edge of our ever emerging attention capital economy.
And? Ads will no longer be targeted to that user with this information. You've identified a distinction without a difference.
Great point. I did find the selection of words odd. They said "will not be connected to your account" and not "deleted". I wonder if it's because they have no way to stop the collection of such data as any of my connections could be pushing that data to facebook.
> Such a bunch of weasels
I think it's more like a very big weasel and his cult-followers.
I think it's more like a very big weasel and his cult-followers.
lunchables(6)
Ugh, this just reads so slimy. Like, "Occasionally, businesses share that data with Facebook." or "We sometimes receive information from businesses that use third-party data..." Like it just happens to occur. 'Yep, It's just a natural process, buddy, like the sun rising. It just happens. But we're here to help you deal with this mysterious problem, because we're the good guys!' There's so much grossness to opt out of in the modern world. Thank god for GDPR and CCPA.
'The off-Facebook activity setting isn't currently available to you right now.'
Smart, announcing it without it being usable, so when it's silently rolled out later people will have forgotten about it. Never change, FB.
Smart, announcing it without it being usable, so when it's silently rolled out later people will have forgotten about it. Never change, FB.
It’s rolled out in Ireland, South Korea and Spain to start, more countries are coming soon.
Sorry, but my point stands. In Facebook's case, there is absolutely zero reason to assume good intentions, give the benefit of the doubt, have general good-will, or believe its employees regarding privacy aims.
Which social media company would you believe regarding privacy?
Nothing such as absolute trust. It has to be a relative comparison. For me it is Apple, Google, Facebook in that order.
Purism: https://librem.one/
Any social with a monthly fee is not going to hit the same network criticality that makes Facebook reign supreme. Attracting people to a new service is hard enough tell them it'll cost 50$ a year and it's hopeless.
The network is not the same thing as the provider. Anyone can use Mastodon for free, so Purism is part of a larger network than just Purism.
Y Combinator?
None, obviously.
The Masons.
It doesn't stand in those countries obviously it is available there. There is no reason to assume bad intentions either and your first statement was just a lot of assumptions and already has been corrected for being not completely true.
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This is the clear history feature that was announced a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16969325. See also the engineering post that explains some of the challenges in implementing this: https://engineering.fb.com/data-infrastructure/off-facebook-...
This comment is by Jérôme Pesenti, VP of AI at Facebook.
Since no one else has asked yet: You seem like a nice guy who could probably get a job elsewhere easily. Why are you still at FB?
Maybe the position of VP of AI at other FAANG companies was already taken, and there were no other alternatives at the similar level of prestige and compensation in the job market.
>>similar level of prestige
Assuming this isn't sarcasm, this is how the word prestige is defined - "denoting something that arouses widespread respect or admiration".
Facebook lied to ad buyers (customers) about video views
https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-inaccu...
Facebook lied to users about their spying app
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/03/02/facebook-...
Facebook lied to regulators about its ability to combine user data
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/7/18215143/facebook-whatsapp...
Facebook lied to journalists about the CA issue
https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/qv777x/facebook-lied-to-j...
They don't mind doing mood manipulation experiments
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every...
They have absolutely no qualms stooping low enough to steal money from kids
https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/facebook-friendly-fr...
Based on the definition above, there is only one prestigious job left at Facebook. Whistle-blower.
Assuming this isn't sarcasm, this is how the word prestige is defined - "denoting something that arouses widespread respect or admiration".
Facebook lied to ad buyers (customers) about video views
https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-inaccu...
Facebook lied to users about their spying app
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/03/02/facebook-...
Facebook lied to regulators about its ability to combine user data
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/7/18215143/facebook-whatsapp...
Facebook lied to journalists about the CA issue
https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/qv777x/facebook-lied-to-j...
They don't mind doing mood manipulation experiments
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every...
They have absolutely no qualms stooping low enough to steal money from kids
https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/facebook-friendly-fr...
Based on the definition above, there is only one prestigious job left at Facebook. Whistle-blower.
> Assuming this isn't sarcasm, this is how the word prestige is defined - "denoting something that arouses widespread respect or admiration".
"Prestige" in terms of the scale of technical challenges that very few other companies can match at the moment. For many career-focused individuals that is the only thing that matters.
"Prestige" in terms of the scale of technical challenges that very few other companies can match at the moment. For many career-focused individuals that is the only thing that matters.
I am at FB completely by choice as I don't need to work any longer. FB is an amazing company - best talent I have ever worked with combined with some of the most interesting challenges I have ever faced. And it gives you the means and autonomy to pursue really bold projects, like PyTorch. Yes it made some serious mistakes but it's genuinely trying to solve them. I know me just saying it won't convince you that it's the case, would be hard not to be skeptical given the press and the way it's portrayed on HN, but on the inside it's pretty clear.
>>given the press and the way it's portrayed on HN
You forgot to add the most important reason which should be at the beginning of that sentence - track record.
And also, hiding important financial details e.g. the so called "friendly fraud" case is not a serious mistake, which implies that somehow it all "just happened" and could have "happened to anyone". It was deliberate, a lot of people were complicit, and it is exactly the kind of issue that crosses the fine line between what is merely a "serious mistake" and goes and sits squarely in the realm of "intentional, systematic and deliberate fraud" to pump up the company pre-IPO. And the fact that this came to light about 7-8 years after the actual incident suggests that we have only yet seen the tip of the iceberg on these kinds of issues.
But let us suppose you are actually right that it was just a "serious mistake".
My view is that right now there are a lot more shady things going on inside FB even as you come and write this.
"Well, how can you be so sure?" is what people generally ask. That's exactly what people who were defending FB were asking as early as 2016 on these forums. But over the last 2-3 years, the skeptics have been vindicated, and those folks who were previously defending FB are nowhere to be found on threads which discuss Facebook. As the saying goes - their silence is now deafening.
You forgot to add the most important reason which should be at the beginning of that sentence - track record.
And also, hiding important financial details e.g. the so called "friendly fraud" case is not a serious mistake, which implies that somehow it all "just happened" and could have "happened to anyone". It was deliberate, a lot of people were complicit, and it is exactly the kind of issue that crosses the fine line between what is merely a "serious mistake" and goes and sits squarely in the realm of "intentional, systematic and deliberate fraud" to pump up the company pre-IPO. And the fact that this came to light about 7-8 years after the actual incident suggests that we have only yet seen the tip of the iceberg on these kinds of issues.
But let us suppose you are actually right that it was just a "serious mistake".
My view is that right now there are a lot more shady things going on inside FB even as you come and write this.
"Well, how can you be so sure?" is what people generally ask. That's exactly what people who were defending FB were asking as early as 2016 on these forums. But over the last 2-3 years, the skeptics have been vindicated, and those folks who were previously defending FB are nowhere to be found on threads which discuss Facebook. As the saying goes - their silence is now deafening.
This is at best disingenuous - you are a VP at facebook and should preface a comment that tries to claim FB is respecting people's privacy with a comment to the effect of:
"I am a VP at Facebook and my income is based on how effectively we track and abuse the privacy of the general public, whether or not they are user's or have agreed to any contract with my employer"
"I am a VP at Facebook and my income is based on how effectively we track and abuse the privacy of the general public, whether or not they are user's or have agreed to any contract with my employer"
I do add a disclaimer when I express an opinion. I didn't mean to imply anything here, I was just really pointing people to extra information. But I guess if that came across differently, it would have been safer to add the disclaimer anyway.
It's like how the scale of Google forced them to come up with Spanner to solve their engineering challenges: Facebook collects so much data it's now having to develop new systems and ingenious methods to allow users to delete said data.
Respectfully: if your employer (for as I understand it you are a Facebook employee) encounters "challenges" to treating people decently and not running a panopticon on humanity at large, it is hard to see a reason why your employer should be allowed to continue as a going concern.
If it’s challenging to make a feature treat users with respect then maybe you shouldn’t have built the feature in the first place?
It’s like designing a dangerous rollercoaster with no concern for safety, and then when people start dying complaining about how hard it was to make it safe.
Nasty, unethical, criminal and morally bankrupt company. There are no other words to describe it.
It’s like designing a dangerous rollercoaster with no concern for safety, and then when people start dying complaining about how hard it was to make it safe.
Nasty, unethical, criminal and morally bankrupt company. There are no other words to describe it.
Did you read the article? If you read between the lines is really tells you what they think of user's privacy. Apparently their systems was never designed to allow deletion of data, and they had to do investigations just to figure out what the different teams were doing with it. There is no way they found everything.
If I was investing a a GDPR complaint, this article contains a lot of information that would be useful when asking questions to FB.
If I was investing a a GDPR complaint, this article contains a lot of information that would be useful when asking questions to FB.
I think you are either completely unaware of the whole situation with Facebook and their business model or you have ulterior motives.
When I read between the lines I see just a nasty attempt at PR to keep naive users & clueless regulators happy by offering the illusion of choice and control over your data.
The reality is that they designed malicious infrastructure akin to a spyware’s command and control center (but at scale, while the other spyware usually gets by with brittle PHP scripts dropped on a hacked shared host) and are now offering you tools to (supposedly) opt-out from a threat they created in the first place.
When I read between the lines I see just a nasty attempt at PR to keep naive users & clueless regulators happy by offering the illusion of choice and control over your data.
The reality is that they designed malicious infrastructure akin to a spyware’s command and control center (but at scale, while the other spyware usually gets by with brittle PHP scripts dropped on a hacked shared host) and are now offering you tools to (supposedly) opt-out from a threat they created in the first place.
I don't know why you suggest I'm unaware. I'm completely in agreement with you.
You might have thought I was making excuses for them. On the contrary, they clearly never designed a system to delete data because the mere idea of actually deleting information associated with a user is so alien to them that they never even thought of it.
You might have thought I was making excuses for them. On the contrary, they clearly never designed a system to delete data because the mere idea of actually deleting information associated with a user is so alien to them that they never even thought of it.
Apologies - I guess I was in the wrong state of mind when I read it yesterday as now it appears completely clear what you meant.
Actually, when I read my original message, I can see how it can be mistaken for making the opposite statement.
I usually try to be as clear as possible, but when it comes to that company I just don't see how anyone could be apologetic for them, so I never read my own post from that perspective.
I usually try to be as clear as possible, but when it comes to that company I just don't see how anyone could be apologetic for them, so I never read my own post from that perspective.
Lately I've been thinking that the phrase "your data" is a deceptive use of language. It encourages the fantasy that you have some kind of ownership over the data that your actions produce. And that you have some natural right to control how it is used.
The reality is that once data leaves your device, it's not yours anymore. It will almost certainly be used to track and manipulate you. If someone is talking about giving you control over "your data", it should be a signal that they intend to do the opposite. (like the OP).
Maybe we need to give up this fantasy of "your data" before we can embrace technologies such as ad-blocking, encryption, and frankly abstaining from using abusive software.
The reality is that once data leaves your device, it's not yours anymore. It will almost certainly be used to track and manipulate you. If someone is talking about giving you control over "your data", it should be a signal that they intend to do the opposite. (like the OP).
Maybe we need to give up this fantasy of "your data" before we can embrace technologies such as ad-blocking, encryption, and frankly abstaining from using abusive software.
Digital rights holders very much hold tightly to the fiction of "your data", and use the teeth of the law to fight anyone claiming otherwise, or copying it in a manner they did not authorize.
(IANAL) At what point can we claim that Terms of Service statements are agreed to under duress, and regain rights to our data as the rightful copyright owner of such data?
(IANAL) At what point can we claim that Terms of Service statements are agreed to under duress, and regain rights to our data as the rightful copyright owner of such data?
This seems nearly useless. It doesn't remove the data when you clear it. It simply "disconnects it from your user ID". But we've seen before that the collected data has so much personally identifiable information in it, that the user ID isn't needed anyway. So in reality, this does nothing. And Facebook absolutely knows this.
Yeah, if the personal (or shadow) profile has a phone number, and the same phone number is in the tracked data, removing the personal profile's user ID seems a little beside the point.
So how will this work if I don’t use a Facebook account?
That's my question as well, they aren't saying anything about shadow profiles. It seems like a ploy to get people to create accounts just to 'stop' tracking.
If you read the article linked in the comments, it looks like this works by creating a special tracking ID for each user that can be disconnected from the real UID, if the user chooses to.
So if you don't have FB, presumably you already don't have UID, so you're on equal footing with Facebook users that use this future. They are tracked, but tracking data is not connected to their UIDs.
So if you don't have FB, presumably you already don't have UID, so you're on equal footing with Facebook users that use this future. They are tracked, but tracking data is not connected to their UIDs.
If you don't have a facebook account, facebook likely has a shadow profile for you. Which would carry your phone number, full name, and whatever else they could extract from your friends' phonebooks and whatever other sources they use. There is no opting out of that, and there is no opting out of facebook getting third party data that lets them connect your shadow profile to a cookie, or to information collected by third parties.
Yeah, but it's not connected to your UID, so it's okay!
From what I understand, it will actually create a shadow profile not linked to your real profile, instead of actually not tracking you. (I have the french version, which basically says : 'you can disconnect tracking informations from your actual account if you desire')
So there's no change for people not using facebook, you'll be tracked like before no matter what.
So there's no change for people not using facebook, you'll be tracked like before no matter what.
I never knew about those, they are super creepy :/
I've just blocked all Facebook.com cookies in my browser. If you're not using Facebook, why do you ever need its cookies?
It looks like they rotate the ID for third party data every 24 hours, but only if you opt out.
Presumably, their tracking is more effective if you simply don’t create an account (so they never rotate the ID).
/Insert a rant about perverse incentives and dark patterns here
Presumably, their tracking is more effective if you simply don’t create an account (so they never rotate the ID).
/Insert a rant about perverse incentives and dark patterns here
In the video she said that the website sends data about you to Facebook. This is incorrect. Facebook is the one doing the collecting or the purchasing of your data from 3rd party collectors.
I try to post this on every Facebook related post: Leave Facebook. You'll thank yourself a year from now.
I try to post this on every Facebook related post: Leave Facebook. You'll thank yourself a year from now.
Not true, you're able to advertise to specific groups of people by sending hashed email addresses in a "Customer List". I found this out when I discovered Rockstar Social Club targeted me for a GTA Online campaign.
If you leave facebook you can't access the "clear history" feature, so they can track you and keep that information forever.
Facebook is a morally bankrupt company and the only real fix is to black hole their many domains.
Facebook is a morally bankrupt company and the only real fix is to black hole their many domains.
Yes of course. Blackholing is step 2.
This is a good step but it'll probably be something that won't be pushed widely by Facebook themselves but pointed to by them to regulators, saying 'look, we do care!'
This is a good step
I disagree. It's a typical Facebook step.
Sneaky, shifty and weasely.
I disagree. It's a typical Facebook step.
Sneaky, shifty and weasely.
All I want is a clear answer from someone at facebook. Why can't I choose to delete data about me from your database? I don't even nec need to be able to see it or do it at a granular level, though that would be nice. All I want to be able to do is say delete this.
Can I delete a private message from your database?
Can I delete your record of a status I wrote from your database?
Can I delete access logs from a website that was using a FB pixel from your database?
Can I delete a private message from your database?
Can I delete your record of a status I wrote from your database?
Can I delete access logs from a website that was using a FB pixel from your database?
I'm glad Facebook chose the name that they did. Hopefully enough people will ask, "why does Facebook care about my activity off Facebook?"
If you don't read it too closely, it sounds like an advert for the very concept of doing activities away from Facebook, which made me chuckle.
“Exciting features include: Cycling through woods! Reading a story in a book made of paper! Now you can control what you see, do and think!”
“Exciting features include: Cycling through woods! Reading a story in a book made of paper! Now you can control what you see, do and think!”
I just recently stopped using Facebook, Instagram and Whatsapp. Taking everyone close to me to Signal.
Facebook deleted a ton of the really valuable ad settings controls I used to prevent bad advertiser behavior somewhat recently. I'd rather have that ability to block advertisers uploading data I didn't give them than this feature.
And all they'd have to do is turn it back on.
And all they'd have to do is turn it back on.
Wait how can I set my preferences for the activity they're tracking on me if I don't have an account?
I'm not under any illusions they're not trying to track me despite me not having an account with them.
I'm not under any illusions they're not trying to track me despite me not having an account with them.
We know that FB tracks us just as much as the people who have accounts. But we have less access and fewer rights.
Actually if you're in the EU you have more rights (but may have a hard time enforcing them).
Data collection, according to the GDPR, requires a reason. If I have a Facebook account you're in a relationshio with the company and so they can argue that you agree to providing your data (it's all there in the 12000, or so, "User Agreement".
If you do not use Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp you are not in a business relationship with the company and they have no right to collect and store your data.
I have a feeling that there's a very nasty legal fight with the EU brewing here in a few years time.
Data collection, according to the GDPR, requires a reason. If I have a Facebook account you're in a relationshio with the company and so they can argue that you agree to providing your data (it's all there in the 12000, or so, "User Agreement".
If you do not use Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp you are not in a business relationship with the company and they have no right to collect and store your data.
I have a feeling that there's a very nasty legal fight with the EU brewing here in a few years time.
As a good practice, does the user have to go to this page and “clear history” everyday, akin to brushing one’s teeth? Who’d even do that (not taking about brushing one’s teeth)?
Why not make it like a permanent toggle that says “never associate off-Facebook activity with my account (to advertise to me and sell me stuff I don’t need)”?
I don’t see anyone being creeped out or annoyed by “backpack ads” (as seen in that dramatization video of this feature) and still being ok with seeing continuous creepy and annoying ads for shoes or something else later.
Why not make it like a permanent toggle that says “never associate off-Facebook activity with my account (to advertise to me and sell me stuff I don’t need)”?
I don’t see anyone being creeped out or annoyed by “backpack ads” (as seen in that dramatization video of this feature) and still being ok with seeing continuous creepy and annoying ads for shoes or something else later.
"Disconnected".
Data Re-Identification:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_re-identification
Data Re-Identification:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_re-identification
This sounds so similar to the engineering of the notifications UI they have done over the past few years. When they say they’ve “given users more control”, yes, they’ve added toggles to that screen, but they’ve engineered the whole thing to take control away and force people into an all or nothing decision where Facebook has the ability to serve you a notification when they feel like you should be engaging.
So I've all but given up on trusting these big corporations to delete all of my data when I turn off data collection/clear history.
However, I think these activity tools are extremely useful. They allow me to see all (or at least most) of what Facebook/Google has on me and it allows me to practice and implement strategies that prevent the corps from collecting the data in the first place.
However, I think these activity tools are extremely useful. They allow me to see all (or at least most) of what Facebook/Google has on me and it allows me to practice and implement strategies that prevent the corps from collecting the data in the first place.
Honestly, it pisses me off that I even have to THINK about this.
Translations from their FAQs:
> If I disconnect my activity, will I stop seeing ads?
No.
> Does disconnecting my activity mean that it's deleted?
No.
> Why am I seeing businesses I don't recognise?
Because they are creepier than you thought.
> If I disconnect my activity, will I stop seeing ads?
No.
> Does disconnecting my activity mean that it's deleted?
No.
> Why am I seeing businesses I don't recognise?
Because they are creepier than you thought.
Who is going to see this that isn't a nerd checking out places like HN like all of us? This doesn't seem like a real effort to aid user privacy, if it was it should be something that pops up in every facebook user's face, not an article you have to search for.
Facebooks attempts at making up for their mistakes almost always leave me feeling worse about the company
Facebooks attempts at making up for their mistakes almost always leave me feeling worse about the company
For Android, privacytools.io advises Blokada. It is an app that runs a sort of local pihole which enables it to block trackers in any app, not just a web browser. I don’t have an android phone myself, but I was very impressed when I tried it out on someone else’s.
Is there a similar for iOS that anyone is aware of?
Is there a similar for iOS that anyone is aware of?
DNSCloak (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dnscloak-secure-dns-client/id1...) seems to do the job.
[deleted]
Here is a dirty GDPR secret: HDFS is an append-only filesystem. It's way too hard to delete things in big data projects, so they get disconnected instead.
>If you'd like, you can disconnect that information from your account, and it will not be associated with you personally.
Specifically no mention that they will delete the data, helpfully combined with no mention that it's trivial to deanonymise such data.
TL;DR: This is a bullshit PR piece to assuage worries that Facebook data-mining the internet. They still are. Move along.
TL;DR: This is a bullshit PR piece to assuage worries that Facebook data-mining the internet. They still are. Move along.
Facebook just happens to get sent data... yeah, more like Facebook buys data. And invests heavily in tools to make it easier for its customers to send Facebook data.
> If you’d like, you can disconnect that information from your account, and it will not be associated with you personally.
“But we still keep it and the entire unique fingerprint”
“But we still keep it and the entire unique fingerprint”
Social media has became incredibly complex. Facebook now has a mini-site to explain the purpose of a single button.
What will happen to people who are already opted out of ads based on data from facebook business partners.
Please create a facebook account so we can track you^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h help "you" can "control" how we make ads from our abuse of your privacy.
We aren't going to stop tracking you, and "bugs" and "inadvertent" changes may "accidentally" reset your settings.
We aren't going to stop tracking you, and "bugs" and "inadvertent" changes may "accidentally" reset your settings.
Firefox, firefox, firefox!
((facebook containers -> it looks after you))
ironically, posted with Chrome
((facebook containers -> it looks after you))
ironically, posted with Chrome
as a non-FB user, do these browser settings keep FB from tracking me?
block all 3rd party cookies, block all trackers, clear cookies on exit, uBlock Origin extension,
and blocking FB related sites in /etc/hosts file
block all 3rd party cookies, block all trackers, clear cookies on exit, uBlock Origin extension,
and blocking FB related sites in /etc/hosts file
It's hard to know for sure, and I think you're doing most of what you could do. More layers would be using TOR browser, noscript, and using a VPN for Al connections on your phone and other devices.
How does this work in terms of GDPR? If it’s only rolled out in a few countries, surely this is Facebook admitting they collect this data but we have no way to access it right now?
Shouldn’t this incur a rather heavy fine?
Shouldn’t this incur a rather heavy fine?
Does this block react CDN hits?
So creepy.
Hey Guys,
We here at Facebook realized you don't trust our apps, so we made another app that makes you think our apps are safe. Despite this just being another app within our portfolio of tracking tools. Please download and install, otherwise the other apps may not work eventually. Trust us. ಠ_ಠ
We here at Facebook realized you don't trust our apps, so we made another app that makes you think our apps are safe. Despite this just being another app within our portfolio of tracking tools. Please download and install, otherwise the other apps may not work eventually. Trust us. ಠ_ಠ
And just look at that lovely, friendly new shade of blue! There's no way a company using that color can mean any harm!
And such an open and trustworthy font. No one using a typeface like that can be shady, surely?
Blue, the color of calm.
And data hoarding.
And data hoarding.
Is there an image of a cute bunny?
Like when they asked for permition (in a typically snaeky, weasely Facebook way) for permission to suck up your entire phone book data and message history (and even contents) from your Android device?
I want a bunny!
Like when they asked for permition (in a typically snaeky, weasely Facebook way) for permission to suck up your entire phone book data and message history (and even contents) from your Android device?
I want a bunny!
Where does it say you need to download another app? It lives in the Settings tab of the main app.
Why do people keep using facebook? I don't want to see this shit anymore.
It's for kids to share memes under fake profiles and boomers to share fake news under real profiles.
A hard cut from facebook is surprisingly easy. The biggest challenge is getting over the mentality of fear that it will somehow be challenging.
A hard cut from facebook is surprisingly easy. The biggest challenge is getting over the mentality of fear that it will somehow be challenging.
It’s to keep a loose connection with distant people and organize private events and find out about non-personal events and happenings.
Just because the people you added on facebook filled it with bullshit, doesn’t mean it’s like that for everyone.
I’d love to get away from them, but I have yet to find a workable alternative.
Just because the people you added on facebook filled it with bullshit, doesn’t mean it’s like that for everyone.
I’d love to get away from them, but I have yet to find a workable alternative.
My connections I cared about simply switched to other forms of communication. Private events, I still find out about. People care about others attending their events (quelle surprise). I just now keep in touch with others in a more personal way instead.
"Non-personal events and happenings" are something whose value is worth thinking about. They were one of those things I'm very happy to have optimized away. If it's important, I'll find out about it. Rephrased, I will not make it my responsibility to find out about something you yourself didn't find important enough to tell me about. Reacting to a post is neither taking part in the event nor engaging with the people involved in it. It's this artificial, vicarious interaction that people convince themselves is a valuable addition to their life when in reality it's a fleeting sentence on an infinitely scrolling newsfeed. It replaced the tv show we'd have on in the background but never quite watch. Something mindless yet just engaging enough to take our focus away from doing absolutely nothing at all.
I used to spend my time on facebook finding out about these "non-personal events and happenings", like my cousin's husband's sister's graduation that I never would have attended or been invited to anyway, my aunt's trip to the beach, and some anniversary party a friend and her partner had. Was any of that important? The only difference between being on facebook and being off facebook, is that the former is full of one-way communication where I show minimal engagement with 90% of people's statuses, while the other is a two-way communication where I personally socialize with the 50% of those people who added value to my life. Magically, almost as if humans have evolved to be able to communicate in more ways than one with no effort, I still find out about the significant events.
In my newly-found free time I've become a board member of a large local non-profit, met more of my neighbors and a large chunk of my local government officials, and found time to regularly exercise hard and explore the outdoors.
"Non-personal events and happenings" are something whose value is worth thinking about. They were one of those things I'm very happy to have optimized away. If it's important, I'll find out about it. Rephrased, I will not make it my responsibility to find out about something you yourself didn't find important enough to tell me about. Reacting to a post is neither taking part in the event nor engaging with the people involved in it. It's this artificial, vicarious interaction that people convince themselves is a valuable addition to their life when in reality it's a fleeting sentence on an infinitely scrolling newsfeed. It replaced the tv show we'd have on in the background but never quite watch. Something mindless yet just engaging enough to take our focus away from doing absolutely nothing at all.
I used to spend my time on facebook finding out about these "non-personal events and happenings", like my cousin's husband's sister's graduation that I never would have attended or been invited to anyway, my aunt's trip to the beach, and some anniversary party a friend and her partner had. Was any of that important? The only difference between being on facebook and being off facebook, is that the former is full of one-way communication where I show minimal engagement with 90% of people's statuses, while the other is a two-way communication where I personally socialize with the 50% of those people who added value to my life. Magically, almost as if humans have evolved to be able to communicate in more ways than one with no effort, I still find out about the significant events.
In my newly-found free time I've become a board member of a large local non-profit, met more of my neighbors and a large chunk of my local government officials, and found time to regularly exercise hard and explore the outdoors.
I don't understand where this Facebook takes up a lot of one's time is coming from. You can always minimize it further. Nowadays, it just takes about 2-10 minutes of my lunchtime. I log in, skim the notifications for events and invitations, and that's it for the day. I don't check a post unless someone in real life tells me about it. While reacting to a post might not seem engaging, I'd say leaving a comment to a friend is. The only feature that kills my time is messenger, but that's because it's pretty much the de facto platform for communication in my country. Apps like telegram, wechat, and whatsapp aren't popular here since they ask for your phone number. The traditional phone call and text are expensive, especially when you're travelling internationally. It also becomes a problem when your contact switches their number. Messenger is free, can be used without the phone, no collecting of phone numbers required - just an easy friend request, and you don't have to worry about spam from people you don't know.
I said it before on HN and it’s still my impression. Those who say loudly how liberating it is to be off facebook always seem to have had an addiction of some level or another.
Personally the most I read on FB is when I’m on the loo and already checked HackerNews ;)
Personally the most I read on FB is when I’m on the loo and already checked HackerNews ;)
> My connections I cared about simply switched to other forms of communication.
I’ve been trying for years to get people to use XMPP. It worked while GTalk and Messenger used XMPP and worked with it. Nowadays my list contains 0 people.
> Private events, I still find out about.
Some I might, some I might not. And I’d certainly hear about it late and not even be in the discussion about when something happens. Because that happens on FB.
> Reacting to a post is neither taking part in the event nor engaging with the people involved in it. It's this artificial, vicarious interaction that people convince themselves is a valuable addition to their life when in reality it's a fleeting sentence on an infinitely scrolling newsfeed.
You misunderstood me or maybe I expressed myself badly. I mean events where you don’t have a close personal relation to the organizer. A gothic night in a club. The English language meetup. The neighbouring city’s birthday celebrations.
If I stopped using facebook right now, I’d get back less than 5 minutes per day. Unlike so many on HN I never had the problem of somehow being addicted to FB. The site became worse (UX wise) over time and nowadays I don’t even feel slightly compelled to read there.
I’ve been trying for years to get people to use XMPP. It worked while GTalk and Messenger used XMPP and worked with it. Nowadays my list contains 0 people.
> Private events, I still find out about.
Some I might, some I might not. And I’d certainly hear about it late and not even be in the discussion about when something happens. Because that happens on FB.
> Reacting to a post is neither taking part in the event nor engaging with the people involved in it. It's this artificial, vicarious interaction that people convince themselves is a valuable addition to their life when in reality it's a fleeting sentence on an infinitely scrolling newsfeed.
You misunderstood me or maybe I expressed myself badly. I mean events where you don’t have a close personal relation to the organizer. A gothic night in a club. The English language meetup. The neighbouring city’s birthday celebrations.
If I stopped using facebook right now, I’d get back less than 5 minutes per day. Unlike so many on HN I never had the problem of somehow being addicted to FB. The site became worse (UX wise) over time and nowadays I don’t even feel slightly compelled to read there.
Block the memes at the source. Each time I see it, I block it. If the people on your page are like mine, they are reposting from these meme groups and not manually uploading these pictures.
The result is my feed is pretty free of this garbage.
My block list is probably over 100 of these stupid groups.
I wish it could be exported and shared.
The result is my feed is pretty free of this garbage.
My block list is probably over 100 of these stupid groups.
I wish it could be exported and shared.
I used to regularly block pages and posts that reached my feed that were from entities who weren’t in my immediate network. Pages people liked, news articles and their organizations. All these things that make Facebook money. I stopped reacting to anything that wasn’t made by someone in my network and cleared out my generated “interests” multiple times, but they’d always come back.
After being off it for a couple of years, whenever I look at someone’s feed I’m absolutely blown away by the saturation of things that are at best ads. It seems like 4/5 items on a timeline would be an update from something that wasn’t a directly-added friend. Facebook shoves the impersonal stuff in my face while all I wanted is the personal stuff.
After being off it for a couple of years, whenever I look at someone’s feed I’m absolutely blown away by the saturation of things that are at best ads. It seems like 4/5 items on a timeline would be an update from something that wasn’t a directly-added friend. Facebook shoves the impersonal stuff in my face while all I wanted is the personal stuff.
I haven't seen anything come back after I block it. But I've only been doing this for about six months. I use the "Block all posts from XXX" option.
Back before FB fucked it up and I actually read what my friends were posting, I simply unfollowed those that posted memes. Problem solved (for me).
Yes, I rarely see memes, super political posts, or such. A lot of what I see on FB is stuff that people would tell me in person if I was standing next to them at the time. You can also somewhat filter what you see by unfollowing or unfriending people that post a lot of stuff you dislike.
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Keep in touch with family and friends. In my country (hungary) most people use Messenger to communicate. It'd take too much time and hassle to introduce new apps and platforms to my friends to keep in touch with them.
You'll discover the people that really care about you will find a way, and that you're largely better off without the people who dont.
Both of my kickball teams use for game attendance, etc. There are plenty of social events to be found on FB. There's a lot of reasons to keep using it. A lot people use it as their main communication vehicle. There's more reasons than what I listed.
I deleted my Facebook account about 9 months ago. My life has been noticeably better without it!
I live abroad and it's one of the few ways in which I get to see what my family/friends are up to. I don't post anything or read news articles from Facebook. I just look at baby/vacation/wedding/birthday pics.
I use Facebook in a container tab in Firefox, completely cut off from my regular browsing. Before that, I used to block it using Privacy Badger.
I use Facebook in a container tab in Firefox, completely cut off from my regular browsing. Before that, I used to block it using Privacy Badger.
Not sure if you’ve known about it or tried it, but there’s a “Facebook Container” [1] extension that does more than assigning Facebook to a container does. Be sure to read the “About this extension” section. [1]
[1]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/facebook-cont...
[1]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/facebook-cont...
It provides value to people.
They use it because they get value out of it.
Facebook can receive whatever they deserve, but let's clap our hands on their development team. React is what currently puts bread on my table and it seems like it will do so for a long time. I can't think of a single big win from a social network in spending their money for R&D than FB ( look at LinkedIn for example ).
Kafka?
Good point! :) Thanks for sharing that.
> Apache Kafka is an open-source stream-processing software platform developed by LinkedIn and donated to the Apache Software Foundation, written in Scala and Java. [1]
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Kafka
> Apache Kafka is an open-source stream-processing software platform developed by LinkedIn and donated to the Apache Software Foundation, written in Scala and Java. [1]
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Kafka
The product manager in charge said: “people were able to mentally connect that with how their browser controls work, where they can clear their history. We clearly state that … the information isn’t connected to your account.” [0]
So, they deliberately designed it to make people think it works like a browser's clear history feature (which does delete everything), but instead, it 'disconnects' the data (but doesn't delete anything).
Such a bunch of weasels.
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/20/facebook-...