The Cannonball Record has been broken again(roadandtrack.com)
roadandtrack.com
The Cannonball Record has been broken again
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a30085091/these-guys-just-drove-an-e63-amg-across-america-in-a-record-27-hours-25-minutes/
141 comments
Huge car/gear nerd here and I just cant get behind this at all. The problem with this is that while you may get drivers with great skill, preparation, network and just plain old luck to have a successful run, you can also have 2 knuckle dragging morons who just want to go fast in the name of fun and "adventure". And its not a question of "if" its a question of when something will go wrong as the record requires a faster and faster average speed. If you look at the GPS "proof", their top speed on this run was 193. At that speed, you are traveling roughly the distance of a football field every SECOND. A deer, slow moving vehicle, mechanical failure or miscalculation will cause things to go very wrong. Even cars built for autobahn travel will not survive a major crash at that speed. Other vehicles are not going to expect someone to approach them at that speed and are also likely to make a mistake as they sort this out. This is a bad idea anyway you slice it. If you want to traverse the country quickly, catch a flight...
> Cannonball drivers, including Toman and Tabbutt, claim to be hyper-focused and safe while driving two to three times the posted speed limit
It's hard not to become overconfident and over-reliant on technology and subsequently assume your driving skills are close to perfection, without even realizing that even the perfect driver cannot avoid all the other drivers' mistakes.
This is an achievement but it's performed under different conditions than any other driver attempting it will encounter. Getting the record because the police just felt more laid back that night for example is like beating up an old Muhammad Ali and saying you must be the best boxer.
It's hard not to become overconfident and over-reliant on technology and subsequently assume your driving skills are close to perfection, without even realizing that even the perfect driver cannot avoid all the other drivers' mistakes.
This is an achievement but it's performed under different conditions than any other driver attempting it will encounter. Getting the record because the police just felt more laid back that night for example is like beating up an old Muhammad Ali and saying you must be the best boxer.
Yup. Plenty of drunks "claim to be hyper-focused and safe" too. You can't trust people's judgment about themselves, especially not when they're doing something obviously dangerous for their own gratification.
The "well they drive fast in Germany every day" argument doesn't hold water either.
1) Even on the parts of the autobahn with unrestricted speeds, 130km is still the recommended upper limit, and you're more liable in a collision if you go faster than that.
2) Many people in Germany don't agree with unrestricted speeds, and politicians have compared it to gun law debates in the US.
3) Germany has higher than average deaths per 1000 km driven (for an EU country).
1) Even on the parts of the autobahn with unrestricted speeds, 130km is still the recommended upper limit, and you're more liable in a collision if you go faster than that.
2) Many people in Germany don't agree with unrestricted speeds, and politicians have compared it to gun law debates in the US.
3) Germany has higher than average deaths per 1000 km driven (for an EU country).
>3) Germany has higher than average deaths per 1000 km driven (for an EU country).
Source?
On Wikipedia similar data doesn't seem like confirming this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...
The referenced paper:
https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/irtad-road...
(page 21) places Germany as "better" than Netherlands, France, Austria and Belgium (the latter is on par with the US)
Source?
On Wikipedia similar data doesn't seem like confirming this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...
The referenced paper:
https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/irtad-road...
(page 21) places Germany as "better" than Netherlands, France, Austria and Belgium (the latter is on par with the US)
It seems like a pretty big undertaking to draw in the "knuckledraggers". Knuckledraggers just go blasting down the breakdown lane during rush hour.
It's dangerous -- primarily to them -- but I can't help but admire and respect what they've done.
As to the top speed -- there are areas in the West where you can see tens of miles with absolutely nothing on either side of the road.
It's dangerous -- primarily to them -- but I can't help but admire and respect what they've done.
As to the top speed -- there are areas in the West where you can see tens of miles with absolutely nothing on either side of the road.
> It's dangerous -- primarily to them
They're endangering everyone on the road with them. No one would care if the drivers were the only ones in danger.
They're endangering everyone on the road with them. No one would care if the drivers were the only ones in danger.
Why are you repeating what I said, yet as if you're stating a contrary point?
This is why I've been finding the splits/differences with Electric Cannonball Runs fascinating. EVs have the added planning skill needed of requiring charging stops (and the related benefit that some "record breaks" over the years are just the addition of a charging stop in the right place). But also, Electric runners seem to have settled a lot more on sticking to posted speed limits, as a gentleman's rule to the game, in part because more EVs make the speed limits clear in GPS displays and in part because some assisted-driving has also infiltrated the EV records. (A lot of drivers using Tesla's cruise control tech.) But also mostly just because there is so much skill and planning in the recharge stops game that speeding isn't necessary for the fun of the sport / ability to break records, because there's plenty of other things to do.
I'm not sure that it will last much longer that Electric Cannonball Runs will focus more on speed limit following, but I hope that it does. It's a better sport that way that it is more "gentlemanly".
I'm not sure that it will last much longer that Electric Cannonball Runs will focus more on speed limit following, but I hope that it does. It's a better sport that way that it is more "gentlemanly".
"Even cars built for autobahn travel will not survive a major crash at that speed. "
I don’t care if they destroy their own cars but in reality they will destroy other people's cars. You also can't expect other people who do their daily driving to account for idiots going at such high speed. Just a stupid and reckless thing to do. With all the Twitter shaming going on for minor offenses these guys deserve a major shaming.
I don’t care if they destroy their own cars but in reality they will destroy other people's cars. You also can't expect other people who do their daily driving to account for idiots going at such high speed. Just a stupid and reckless thing to do. With all the Twitter shaming going on for minor offenses these guys deserve a major shaming.
> This is a bad idea anyway you slice it.
I do not disagree at all. I am just confused on why this is 'romanticized' and 'published'. If I went and robbed my neighbor of $10k in a record breaking "quick" fashion, would I get journalists at my door looking to publish articles around it?
I do not disagree at all. I am just confused on why this is 'romanticized' and 'published'. If I went and robbed my neighbor of $10k in a record breaking "quick" fashion, would I get journalists at my door looking to publish articles around it?
No, because anyone with a bumpkey and a couple days to kill on staking the place out can do that. If you went and broke into the Natural History Museum to steal the Hope Diamond than you too would have journalists breaking down your door in order to get your story, because the latter actually takes an impressive amount of skill.
Everyone speeds. Everyone. Everyone breaks traffic laws. Most see traffic enforcement where there are no victims as heavy-handed. Comparing that with a robbery is specious.
"But they could have..."
But they didn't. Nor have the many who came before. The risk profile of these guys is less than someone who is checking a text while driving.
(Okay, a tiny, tiny minority of drivers never break the law. They are the extreme exception)
"But they could have..."
But they didn't. Nor have the many who came before. The risk profile of these guys is less than someone who is checking a text while driving.
(Okay, a tiny, tiny minority of drivers never break the law. They are the extreme exception)
>Even cars built for autobahn travel will not survive a major crash at that speed.
One can't realistically ask people to only ever do what's safe.
As a species we're built to operate at certain risk level. If you track the risks of business, leisure, travel, etc., through ages and cultures, they do show remarkable stability. As soon as better technology, organization, skills, and so on come along, people start going faster, harder, further, more intensely and such.
You can make superficially reasonable arguments, but you can't change the fact that risk-taking is necessary for gains. This observation is built into our, humans, very nature, and everybody has a natural grasp of it.
One can't realistically ask people to only ever do what's safe.
As a species we're built to operate at certain risk level. If you track the risks of business, leisure, travel, etc., through ages and cultures, they do show remarkable stability. As soon as better technology, organization, skills, and so on come along, people start going faster, harder, further, more intensely and such.
You can make superficially reasonable arguments, but you can't change the fact that risk-taking is necessary for gains. This observation is built into our, humans, very nature, and everybody has a natural grasp of it.
> Even cars built for autobahn travel will not survive a major crash at that speed.
I couldn't care less if they're killed--they're clearly asking for it. It's the innocent bystanders that will inevitably die that concerns me.
I couldn't care less if they're killed--they're clearly asking for it. It's the innocent bystanders that will inevitably die that concerns me.
The tech is interesting, granted. And I find the overall idea of it quite beguiling from an outlaw/risky/renegade POV. But I can't help but feel it's still massively irresponsible from both a public safety and environmental perspective.
It's one thing to drive your car into a tree in the middle of nowhere at 120mph, quite another if you drive it into someone else obeying the speed limit and going about their day.
It's one thing to drive your car into a tree in the middle of nowhere at 120mph, quite another if you drive it into someone else obeying the speed limit and going about their day.
> environmental perspective
Rolling eyes. Going insanely fast sustained > 100mph and putting other peope's life in danger I agree with. The drive being a detectable impact on the environment I'm suspect.
Rolling eyes. Going insanely fast sustained > 100mph and putting other peope's life in danger I agree with. The drive being a detectable impact on the environment I'm suspect.
That's the tricky thing about the environment - nothing we do individually has a detectable impact on the environment. And yet all of us doing it has a massive impact. So maybe the best is to just try to be a good person and not pollute unnecessarily
It's a completely needless long journey, in an uneconomical vehicle. The impact of one single person may be negligible but it's precisely this sort of collective tragedy of the commons approach that is proving problematic in regards pollution.
Agreed. Well, presumably they're going to be arrested soon.
I'm pretty sure they would be in the UK. There have been convictions where idiots took pictures of their speedo then posted them on social media.
ncmncm(2)
Stubb(4)
> “When all is said and done, there will be three kinds of reactions to an achievement of this kind. One will be outright indignation that anyone would endanger public safety by traveling at such speeds... To date, no one has been killed or seriously injured doing a Cannonball or setting a cross-country record in the U.S., but American motorists don't expect such high speeds, and truckers usually resent it. There's potential for disaster.”
> “The other responses will be from another crowd—Cannonballers and motorheads of all stripes who believe that driving skill, and not traffic law, is more beneficial to actual safety than simply slowing down. From this side of the aisle there will be unadulterated joy that such a cross-country time has been posted, as well as begrudging appreciation from former record holders and disappointed fanatics who may have been planning record runs of their own...”
> Was it a good idea? No. It never has been and it never will be. But like Everest, it presents itself as a risky challenge that is, to some, irresistible.
To those who think it was irresponsible to attempt such a feat, a lot of what we do as humans—at our best—is frankly irresponsible. Humans acting perfectly responsibly, obeying all the laws of their local jurisdiction, never willing to put themselves and even perhaps others in harms way, and worried more about their carbon footprint than whether they can accomplish some mythical (to them) feat...
I imagine that without the traits that lead to these types of attempts, and without a society that is willing to at least tolerate (if not celebrate) their achievements, we would lose out on a lot of inventions, discoveries, freedoms and social progress that stems from people with the same basic instinct to leave a dent.
> “The other responses will be from another crowd—Cannonballers and motorheads of all stripes who believe that driving skill, and not traffic law, is more beneficial to actual safety than simply slowing down. From this side of the aisle there will be unadulterated joy that such a cross-country time has been posted, as well as begrudging appreciation from former record holders and disappointed fanatics who may have been planning record runs of their own...”
> Was it a good idea? No. It never has been and it never will be. But like Everest, it presents itself as a risky challenge that is, to some, irresistible.
To those who think it was irresponsible to attempt such a feat, a lot of what we do as humans—at our best—is frankly irresponsible. Humans acting perfectly responsibly, obeying all the laws of their local jurisdiction, never willing to put themselves and even perhaps others in harms way, and worried more about their carbon footprint than whether they can accomplish some mythical (to them) feat...
I imagine that without the traits that lead to these types of attempts, and without a society that is willing to at least tolerate (if not celebrate) their achievements, we would lose out on a lot of inventions, discoveries, freedoms and social progress that stems from people with the same basic instinct to leave a dent.
On the Everest comparison, the difference is Everest climbers primarily risk their own lives as people who agreed to make the climb.
Whereas Cannonballers risk the lives of everybody sharing the road with them. Ie, regular drivers who have not agreed to let someone charge up behind them at >100 mph.
Whereas Cannonballers risk the lives of everybody sharing the road with them. Ie, regular drivers who have not agreed to let someone charge up behind them at >100 mph.
Exactly this.
When I was younger, I did a lot of speeding on Interstates (US). I had a fancy radar detector, and I was almost never ticketed. Part of getting away with it, though, is doing it when you're mostly alone on the highway. Driving much, much faster than the cars around you is both reckless and terrifying; the risks are enormous.
(Interestingly, my preferred highway pace back then was 75-80MPH. Now, when I drive on the Interstate, I'm nearly always going this fast or nearly this fast, but in the interim speed limits have risen on these open stretches of highway such that 75 is probably not even "ticketable" anymore; in some places, it's actually legal.
Therefore it's hard for me to say that my middle-aged increased law-abiding nature is due to maturity, or the fact that the speed limits have mostly risen to the speeds I was driving at anyway.)
When I was younger, I did a lot of speeding on Interstates (US). I had a fancy radar detector, and I was almost never ticketed. Part of getting away with it, though, is doing it when you're mostly alone on the highway. Driving much, much faster than the cars around you is both reckless and terrifying; the risks are enormous.
(Interestingly, my preferred highway pace back then was 75-80MPH. Now, when I drive on the Interstate, I'm nearly always going this fast or nearly this fast, but in the interim speed limits have risen on these open stretches of highway such that 75 is probably not even "ticketable" anymore; in some places, it's actually legal.
Therefore it's hard for me to say that my middle-aged increased law-abiding nature is due to maturity, or the fact that the speed limits have mostly risen to the speeds I was driving at anyway.)
Honestly that's not true anymore. Very few people are climbing it unaided and it is Sherpas who help that are also killed alongside these climbers.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48464030
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/04/14/599417489/...
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/04/14/599417489/...
The Sherpas who climb professionally have also chosen to climb, and are compensated for it.
Somewhat. There's the very distorting fact that Sherpa-ing is multiple times more lucrative than any other job they could possibly get in the area.
Yes, yes, yes, but you're picking apart a metaphor here. This distinction does not damage the comparison.
Cannonball participants are taking large risks, and are imposing those risks on many, many people who have no real way to avoid them. This is unkind and immoral.
Cannonball participants are taking large risks, and are imposing those risks on many, many people who have no real way to avoid them. This is unkind and immoral.
[deleted]
Sherpas are everest climbers, they willingly participate in climbing everest. None of the other road users willingly participated in these idiots' dangerous driving
[deleted]
The big difference here is who is risking what. When astronauts went to the moon, the only people at risk were the astronauts and possibly the ground crew, all of whom signed up for what they were doing and were trained and aware of the risks.
When I am driving on the highway and I see a pair of headlight way back, I can assume they're doing 60-80 and make a judgement as to whether is safe to change lanes. If that person is violating all social norms and doing 160, then my decision to change lanes could end up with them rearending me due to my complete inability to guess they they are acting in an extremely selfish and antisocial way. They could be the best drivers in the world with millisecond reaction times, but at some point, physics won't allow you to stop in time.
These are just a couple of rich dudes who feel their money and technical skill makes them above the law.
When I am driving on the highway and I see a pair of headlight way back, I can assume they're doing 60-80 and make a judgement as to whether is safe to change lanes. If that person is violating all social norms and doing 160, then my decision to change lanes could end up with them rearending me due to my complete inability to guess they they are acting in an extremely selfish and antisocial way. They could be the best drivers in the world with millisecond reaction times, but at some point, physics won't allow you to stop in time.
These are just a couple of rich dudes who feel their money and technical skill makes them above the law.
With that attitude, maybe you can volunteer to be the one they leave a dent in. I'd rather not be a victim of progress, especially not if the progress is in the incredibly vapid terms of a speed record on federal roads.
Those speeds work just fine here in Germany, 120mph isn't even that fast. Some social conventions like drive in the right lane if you go slow and only overtake on the left lane is all it takes.
Our number of deadly car accidents per capita are one of the lowest world-wide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...
Granted, they were probably driving on roads where it really was risky, but I'm always amazed the American speed limits are as low as they are, especially since there are so many long stretches of straight highway.
Our number of deadly car accidents per capita are one of the lowest world-wide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...
Granted, they were probably driving on roads where it really was risky, but I'm always amazed the American speed limits are as low as they are, especially since there are so many long stretches of straight highway.
Not the whole story. Some drivers sometimes speed like crazy, mostly on the parts of the Autobahn that have 4 lanes, and it's for relatively short distances. Every once in a while, around on/off ramps, the speed is limited and traffic usually doesn't allow speeding.
But driving with an average speed of 165Km/h takes a huge toll on concentration. You have to expend a lot of mental and physical effort to be constantly vigilant at those speeds for hours on end, something the regular Autobahn driver doesn't have to do because they can just slow down a bit and move one lane to the right.
But driving with an average speed of 165Km/h takes a huge toll on concentration. You have to expend a lot of mental and physical effort to be constantly vigilant at those speeds for hours on end, something the regular Autobahn driver doesn't have to do because they can just slow down a bit and move one lane to the right.
Thats the point tho! Nobody does this. People usually self-regulate quite well.
> Thats the point tho! Nobody does this.
Did you forget what article you were commenting on?
Did you forget what article you were commenting on?
American's won't understand you. I mean, even I can't fathom regular people doing 120 mph on freeways and I realize how silly our speed limits are.
You want to cut road mortalities? Get all the cops off the interstate and issuing tickets to texters and ppl speeding inside the cities.
You want to cut road mortalities? Get all the cops off the interstate and issuing tickets to texters and ppl speeding inside the cities.
As someone from the UK who's driven a lot in the US, to cut road deaths you guys should just make your driving test more standardised across states and also much more difficult to pass.
Yeah but there are mostly germans driving there. Nations are not equal when it comes to rationality, temper, ego etc.
One proof - Swiss have often direct votes on important matters, and country runs like... swiss clock. Give British, often considered reasonable folks, a public vote on an important matter, and we have Brexit.
One proof - Swiss have often direct votes on important matters, and country runs like... swiss clock. Give British, often considered reasonable folks, a public vote on an important matter, and we have Brexit.
I hear your points, lets add two minor nitpicks:
>a lot of what we do as humans—at our best—is frankly irresponsible
There's no responsibility without risks. If anything, responsibility is in the conscious & reasoned risk-taking, having prepared to clean up or nullify any negative side-effects.
>obeying all the laws of their local jurisdiction
Speed limits are set at 85 percentile of traffic's speed[1]. Without the speeders we'd be having even more regressive speed limits.
The run was a good idea, and I am looking forward for the next attempt.
--
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit#Maximum_speed_limi...
>a lot of what we do as humans—at our best—is frankly irresponsible
There's no responsibility without risks. If anything, responsibility is in the conscious & reasoned risk-taking, having prepared to clean up or nullify any negative side-effects.
>obeying all the laws of their local jurisdiction
Speed limits are set at 85 percentile of traffic's speed[1]. Without the speeders we'd be having even more regressive speed limits.
The run was a good idea, and I am looking forward for the next attempt.
--
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit#Maximum_speed_limi...
If anyone you loved had been killed by a speeding driver you might feel differently.
Or a self-driving car?
It would be interesting to compare deaths per km driven for both these endeavours.
I wonder if there is much overlap in the group that is bullish about the risks for each.
I wonder if there is much overlap in the group that is bullish about the risks for each.
[deleted]
> Was it a good idea? No. It never has been and it never will be. But like Everest, it presents itself as a risky challenge that is, to some, irresistible.
This is a bunch of bullshit. If you lose your grip climbing Everest, you don't crush a family sedan when you hit.
This is a bunch of bullshit. If you lose your grip climbing Everest, you don't crush a family sedan when you hit.
Their AMG doing 120 mph in Nebraska on I-80 on Sunday is probably a lot safer than the Governor's Chevy Suburban doing 91 on the Garden State Parkway.
"Corzine's car was doing 91 mph before crash" - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-corzine/corzines-car-was-...
>Corzine was not wearing a seat belt, the statement said, confirming earlier statements by Corzine’s officials.
"Corzine's car was doing 91 mph before crash" - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-corzine/corzines-car-was-...
>Corzine was not wearing a seat belt, the statement said, confirming earlier statements by Corzine’s officials.
VinWIKI (its founder is the former record holder) did an excellent video where they interviewed the team [0].
I guess it's congratulations to the team, but I would never endorse such record attempts. It's just to dangerous to do.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6s9o6uIWZw
I guess it's congratulations to the team, but I would never endorse such record attempts. It's just to dangerous to do.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6s9o6uIWZw
> At first glance, the AMG looked more like a mid-2000s Honda Accord from the rear, not like a car that would be cruising at 160 mph or faster.
When the police on the radio don't know the make and model because they removed all the Mercedes Benz badges and covered the carbon fiber is great. "A silver passenger car..."
When the police on the radio don't know the make and model because they removed all the Mercedes Benz badges and covered the carbon fiber is great. "A silver passenger car..."
If you look at the pictures, you'll see they blocked off a portion of the rear lights with a plastic wrap that matches the car's color. This makes it pretty hard to recognize the make/model from behind.
The typical MB front (the grill) would still make it easily recognizable, but at the speeds they are driving I doubt many people had time to take a look at the front.
The typical MB front (the grill) would still make it easily recognizable, but at the speeds they are driving I doubt many people had time to take a look at the front.
Going 120mph with other traffic just going about their day is dangerous and anti-social. Nothing commendable about it. It's all fun and games until someone gets killed.
I hope they have good long think about why they chose to endanger everyone they passed for some silly record.
I hope they have good long think about why they chose to endanger everyone they passed for some silly record.
Well it's been 100 years and no one's gotten hurt.
I wouldn't (couldn't?) do it, but there are people who are amazing drivers. The difference between most drivers and someone who just cares about driving as a skill is huge. These guys are the cream of the crop.
Plus they had taken precautions that are insane to avoid collisions. Heat detecting cameras to avoid deer? Do you know how hard it is to stop in time after spotting a deer?
These guys are far less likely to crash then someone on their cellphones.
I wouldn't (couldn't?) do it, but there are people who are amazing drivers. The difference between most drivers and someone who just cares about driving as a skill is huge. These guys are the cream of the crop.
Plus they had taken precautions that are insane to avoid collisions. Heat detecting cameras to avoid deer? Do you know how hard it is to stop in time after spotting a deer?
These guys are far less likely to crash then someone on their cellphones.
> These guys are far less likely to crash then someone on their cellphones.
Yes, that is also dangerous and anti-social, but I don't see how it makes what they did less dangerous.
It's dangerous not because they're bad drivers, they're not, it's because no one else is expecting a car to come barreling up from behind them at 120mph.
And yes, thankfully no one has been hurt yet, but it's a totally unnecessary risk for some silly record.
Yes, that is also dangerous and anti-social, but I don't see how it makes what they did less dangerous.
It's dangerous not because they're bad drivers, they're not, it's because no one else is expecting a car to come barreling up from behind them at 120mph.
And yes, thankfully no one has been hurt yet, but it's a totally unnecessary risk for some silly record.
>Well it's been 100 years and no one's gotten hurt.
I'm curious if this is true. If there was a high speed crash anywhere along that path, the best move for the driver is to definitely not mention they were doing the Cannonball Run. Participating in the Cannonball Run is a guaranteed way to get 0 sympathy from a jury for a civil claim, and get the max sentence from a judge for whatever criminal charges you'll be facing.
I think it's entirely possible people have been hurt/killed without much fuss getting linked to the race.
I'm curious if this is true. If there was a high speed crash anywhere along that path, the best move for the driver is to definitely not mention they were doing the Cannonball Run. Participating in the Cannonball Run is a guaranteed way to get 0 sympathy from a jury for a civil claim, and get the max sentence from a judge for whatever criminal charges you'll be facing.
I think it's entirely possible people have been hurt/killed without much fuss getting linked to the race.
This was fascinating from a logistics, tech, information warfare, planning, etc. perspective.
It’s too bad the comments here are almost all the same pearl clutching, even if someone else has already said it, and the article starts and ends with discussions of whether it is dangerous or condoned that is more in depth already anyway.
It’s too bad the comments here are almost all the same pearl clutching, even if someone else has already said it, and the article starts and ends with discussions of whether it is dangerous or condoned that is more in depth already anyway.
Is it possible for the states they traveled through to revoke their drivers licenses? I mean they've presented ample evidence that they've intentionally exceeded speed limits on average over the entire route.
I think they can also be brought up on criminal charges in most states they passed through. Their radar detectors and, especially, their jammers are strictly illegal in many, if not most states in the US and yet they just gave the authorities pictures of their illegal setup with their names and faces and testimony that they used said illegal setup to enact willful and flagrant violations of the law. I really do hope the authorities come knocking holding a warrant with this article as the justification for issuing it.
It looks like radar detectors are legal in most US states and territories. Virginia and the District of Columbia are the two exceptions and the NYC->LA route wouldn't pass through either.
https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/radar-detectors/
https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/radar-detectors/
> To date, no one has been killed or seriously injured doing a Cannonball or setting a cross-country record in the U.S
...but four people died in a (legal!) Cannonball event in Australia in 1994. Two were contestants, two were race officials.
http://www.cannonball.info/other-events/cannonball-run-1994
...but four people died in a (legal!) Cannonball event in Australia in 1994. Two were contestants, two were race officials.
http://www.cannonball.info/other-events/cannonball-run-1994
"... L.A.'s spiderweb of interstates for a total of 2825 miles—Toman and Tabbutt were able to maintain an overall average speed of 103 mph..."
I've driven cross country a few times and I was always happy if I could average more than 50mph over any long amount of time driving. I can't understand how they averaged 103, that really seems impossible without getting incredibly lucky!
I've driven cross country a few times and I was always happy if I could average more than 50mph over any long amount of time driving. I can't understand how they averaged 103, that really seems impossible without getting incredibly lucky!
TFA doesn't mention it, but I've read about other Cannonball attempts where the "contestants" do their best to plan the journey so that they avoid population centers during peak traffic hours and the long stretches of desolate highway driving occur at night so the highways are even more empty.
I used to congratulate myself for a Portland - Seattle run in two hours, back in the '80s. I never was able to account for seeing a full moon dead ahead, on a slower run.
Yeah, I've made several 20-22 hour trips from Chicago to a fishing cabin 8 hours north of Winnipeg, and it's HARD to keep your average speed north of 50. If you make a stop for gas or food, you can literally watch your overall average drop by a few MPH.
There's two big things they did:
First, they minimized their stops to four fuel stops.
Second, when they were moving, they were moving FAST whenever possible. Well north of 100 mph.
First, they minimized their stops to four fuel stops.
Second, when they were moving, they were moving FAST whenever possible. Well north of 100 mph.
Third, don't drive a F150 loaded with enough food and beer for four fat guys for 10 days while towing a boat. :-)
When I was in grad school, my trip home for breaks was 720 miles routinely driven in 12 hours, all stops included, for an average of 60mph. About 5 miles of this entire trip was on non-interstate, and travelling through the cities could be arranged to miss all the rush hours, which means that you can maintain speed limit the entire freeway trip (which is mostly 70mph).
If these guys had balls they would go on a race track and see what they really can do. This is just a competition of recklessness, not skill. They are just a bunch of idiots who mainly endanger other people.
At a minimum they should deactivate their airbags and safety belts to make sure they themselves get hurt when something happens.
At a minimum they should deactivate their airbags and safety belts to make sure they themselves get hurt when something happens.
The fuel cell remark confused me, being followed later by mention of turbos. What is the fuel cell for?
"Fuel cell" in this context, is another name for "fuel tank." They added an auxiliary fuel tank in the trunk (boot) of the car.
I would love to understand their reasoning for not making the tank as large as absolutely possible though.
Maybe not worth the extra cost of all the work required to absolutely fill the trunk with fuel? 22 minutes spent refueling is incredibly low either way.
Maybe not worth the extra cost of all the work required to absolutely fill the trunk with fuel? 22 minutes spent refueling is incredibly low either way.
There is a weight trade off. Liquids like fuel are dense. If they filled the entire trunk with fuel it would have added another 500+ lbs to the car, possibly requiring additional suspension changes.
Fuel cells are also built to higher burst standards than "fuel tanks", as they often have less impact protection around them than a fuel tank that was designed to fit into the cars overall structure.
They generally also have baffles to minimize weight transfer from fuel sloshing.
Less time spent at the gas pump means more time moving.
It was mentioned in an article about Bolian's run that they were able to pull up between two pumps, start them both, and run one into the car's tank and the other into the trunk-mounted fuel cell at the same time. Double the gallons per minute means half the time wasted!
I don't know if Toman/Tabbutt/Chadwick did that, but even at the same old gallons-per-minute, it means less time pulling into and out of a station, and is still valuable. Five more fuel stops at five minutes a piece would account for about half the difference between Bolian and Toman.
It was mentioned in an article about Bolian's run that they were able to pull up between two pumps, start them both, and run one into the car's tank and the other into the trunk-mounted fuel cell at the same time. Double the gallons per minute means half the time wasted!
I don't know if Toman/Tabbutt/Chadwick did that, but even at the same old gallons-per-minute, it means less time pulling into and out of a station, and is still valuable. Five more fuel stops at five minutes a piece would account for about half the difference between Bolian and Toman.
This was a brilliant logistical move.
Until one of the pumps is blocked by someone done pumping and shuffling into the convenience store in their pajamas and flip flops to buy a 128oz Mountain Dew.
(I would assume this is where their spotters helped too...to make sure there were two available and functioning pumps. Probably even to have credit cards swiped and ready to go as soon as they pulled into the station.)
(I would assume this is where their spotters helped too...to make sure there were two available and functioning pumps. Probably even to have credit cards swiped and ready to go as soon as they pulled into the station.)
Not a fuel cell in the electrochemical sense, but one to store additional gasoline for extending the car's range.
I see: "Not a fuel cell", full stop.
"Fuel cell" is the technical term for "gas tank" used in motorsports; it's literally a cell that holds fuel. In the techie/green community, the term has come to be used as a shorthand for "hydrogen fuel cell" but that's a more recent development.
From Wikitionary:
Cell. From Latin cella (“chamber, small room, compartment”)
biological cell? chamber with biological goop jail cell? chamber with convict inside it fuel cell? chamber with fuel in it electrochemical cell? chamber with electrodes and an electrolyte in it
fuel cell (again)? What do we name an electrochemical cell whose reactants are fluids? fuel cell!
Cell. From Latin cella (“chamber, small room, compartment”)
biological cell? chamber with biological goop jail cell? chamber with convict inside it fuel cell? chamber with fuel in it electrochemical cell? chamber with electrodes and an electrolyte in it
fuel cell (again)? What do we name an electrochemical cell whose reactants are fluids? fuel cell!
Apollo missions used hydrogen-fueled fuel cells for primary mission power, 50+ years ago.
The fuel cell is a catalytic converter of chemical to electrical energy. The hydrogen for it comes from what is called -- even in an interplanetary spacecraft -- a tank.
The fuel cell is a catalytic converter of chemical to electrical energy. The hydrogen for it comes from what is called -- even in an interplanetary spacecraft -- a tank.
Yes, also hydrogen fuel cells are not the only kind (although it is the most common). They can also be fueled by hydrocarbons.
I'm not saying that hydrogen fuel cells are a new technology, I'm saying that the use of the shorthand "fuel cell" to refer to them by default is a comparatively recent development limited to certain circles.
Originally, only hydrogen fuel cells existed. If you had a fuel cell, it was by definition a hydrogen fuel cell, no qualification needed. Later people came up with other kinds that could catalyze more complex molecules.
Calling an auxiliary gas tank a fuel cell has to have originated as some kind of cheesy marketing ploy, to make it sound like a more sophisticated thing than a gas can with baffles, and get more money for it.
Calling an auxiliary gas tank a fuel cell has to have originated as some kind of cheesy marketing ploy, to make it sound like a more sophisticated thing than a gas can with baffles, and get more money for it.
I research fuel cells - the electrochemical ones. These are fuel cells, full stop.
Definitions change according to the topic of the conversation. In this context the "cell" containing fuel is a very highly engineered containment cell to ensure fuel isn't spilled or explodes in case of a high energy collision.
Definitions change according to the topic of the conversation. In this context the "cell" containing fuel is a very highly engineered containment cell to ensure fuel isn't spilled or explodes in case of a high energy collision.
Fuel Cell is common terminology in racing for a liquid fuel tank.
In automotive parlance it is fuel cell... ie a cell to hold fuel. That's just what they're called.
[deleted]
refueling time is a huge impediment. Adding tens of gallons of capacity [in this context 'fuel cell' is 'extra gas tank'] prevents tens of minutes spent at 0mph.
When you're going over 100mph you drain fuel incredibly fast.
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Cell, meaning chamber.
I guess law enforcement and we as a society should now be scratching our heads wondering how this is possible in 2019. If speeding laws were truly enforced they wouldn’t have gotten out of NY/NJ without getting pulled over :)
That's awesome. It seems like one could up their chances as well by having a caravan ahead of you as sacraficial police lambs.
They did have spotters along the way:
> In all, they managed to rustle up 18 lookouts along the run. These were people who drove hundreds of miles in many cases just to scout the road ahead of the fast-moving AMG for a stretch and let the team know of any police activity or other hazards ahead.
And, of course, they were familiar with that idea from the classic movie "Smokey and the Bandit" as referenced in the article, so they probably had a good reason for not doing it that way. I'd guess that hiring a caravan of people willing to get jail time, lose their licenses, and having their expensive, fast cars seized would be really, really expensive and would only keep a few officers busy for a few minutes. Plus, in hindsight, they were successful without it.
However, I find the downvotes on your comment interesting having read the "Help me ask 'Why you didn't just'" article posted yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21675717
You met several of the criteria for reducing the insult factor: Your comment is impersonal, forward-looking, and not condescending, without being passive-agressive. But you were still downvoted.
> In all, they managed to rustle up 18 lookouts along the run. These were people who drove hundreds of miles in many cases just to scout the road ahead of the fast-moving AMG for a stretch and let the team know of any police activity or other hazards ahead.
And, of course, they were familiar with that idea from the classic movie "Smokey and the Bandit" as referenced in the article, so they probably had a good reason for not doing it that way. I'd guess that hiring a caravan of people willing to get jail time, lose their licenses, and having their expensive, fast cars seized would be really, really expensive and would only keep a few officers busy for a few minutes. Plus, in hindsight, they were successful without it.
However, I find the downvotes on your comment interesting having read the "Help me ask 'Why you didn't just'" article posted yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21675717
You met several of the criteria for reducing the insult factor: Your comment is impersonal, forward-looking, and not condescending, without being passive-agressive. But you were still downvoted.
Alex Roy's book (which is excellent) has a bunch of details of his attempts and the eventual Roy/Maher success. Same as this one, it was basically two nights and one day. They had an IR camera in the car to see the heat from idling cop cruisers hanging out behind overpasses and such, and then for the daytime section there was a small airplane that flew ahead of them for a stretch and scouted out the route.
Yeah, but he also said that what they accomplished is awesome. The HN crown mostly (not all of us) frowns on this type of thing, even while still finding the news interesting.
What is the issue with saying it's awesome? Is it the lack of objectivity? Or the lack of professionalism?
Neither. A lot of vocal people in HN really don't like motor vehicles and that people can have with them.
Motor-bikes, -cars, -boats, -whatever. A large part of the HN crowd doesn't like them. HN also has healthy minority who are motor-heads, so it balances out.
Motor-bikes, -cars, -boats, -whatever. A large part of the HN crowd doesn't like them. HN also has healthy minority who are motor-heads, so it balances out.
I was seriously hoping for people to just post most more ideas. That was my goal.
It is awesome.
Note that they start in NYC just past midnight, therefore they arrived in LA before 4:30 am. You can't really do better then that for traffic.
Note that they start in NYC just past midnight, therefore they arrived in LA before 4:30 am. You can't really do better then that for traffic.
Excellent attention to detail. I imagine this was meticulously planned. I would have loved to read more about their planning of this.
Ah yes, the "designated decoy".
I find it hilarious the author claims the car was superbly prepared and then talks about them having engine issues at altitude.
Almost guaranteed this thing had a hacked up EFI modification done by some tuner... those guys never really know what they're doing, AMG/Mercedes almost certainly won't share how that computer works since modifying it on a street car almost certainly is illegal and will cause the car to fail inspection.
In general it is always interesting most of these guys seem to be from NYC and born into privilege in a car dealership family. Alex Roy fit that model. It seems like you need to be born into that privilege to end up being a professional race car driver but you also have to have more talent and hard work. The cannonball stuff seems like some kind of 2nd tier automotive fame seeking. When I was into racing & stuff I'd meet tons of guys who all thought skill was more important than following the law.. but none of them were that successful in competition and all of them had plenty of accidents.
Even if you don't find any of this interesting Alex Roy's book is a great read.
Having once rode a motorcycle 1000 miles in well under 24 hours I get the appeal of this but not the super illegal speeds.
The increasing use of electronics and internet to escape detection is pretty interesting.
Almost guaranteed this thing had a hacked up EFI modification done by some tuner... those guys never really know what they're doing, AMG/Mercedes almost certainly won't share how that computer works since modifying it on a street car almost certainly is illegal and will cause the car to fail inspection.
In general it is always interesting most of these guys seem to be from NYC and born into privilege in a car dealership family. Alex Roy fit that model. It seems like you need to be born into that privilege to end up being a professional race car driver but you also have to have more talent and hard work. The cannonball stuff seems like some kind of 2nd tier automotive fame seeking. When I was into racing & stuff I'd meet tons of guys who all thought skill was more important than following the law.. but none of them were that successful in competition and all of them had plenty of accidents.
Even if you don't find any of this interesting Alex Roy's book is a great read.
Having once rode a motorcycle 1000 miles in well under 24 hours I get the appeal of this but not the super illegal speeds.
The increasing use of electronics and internet to escape detection is pretty interesting.
The engine issues were result of the low octane fuel. Performance engines require high octane fuel to avoid "knocking" (or pre-detonation of fuel). The 92/93 octane recommended for stock performance engines is not available everywhere, let alone Ethanol blends and 95+ octane required for tuned engines.
> Almost guaranteed this thing had a hacked up EFI modification done by some tuner... those guys never really know what they're doing, AMG/Mercedes almost certainly won't share how that computer works since modifying it on a street car almost certainly is illegal and will cause the car to fail inspection.
You sure as hell don't know what you're talking about either, because most of the tunes don't touch the software as much as they change "maps" or the data tables that the ECU uses for fueling/AFR, ignition timing, cam profile (VANOS/VVT/VVL etc.).
The tunes themselves don't result in a failed inspection (I own a tuned BMW N54 motor myself, that passes inspection without any hacks) but if you're generating enough boost, it may be necessary to remove the catalytic converters in the downpipes after turbos for a smoother flow which results in a failed inspection. Most modern inspections rely on the ECU to report a failed/missing catalytic converter so getting around the inspection is an easy task for someone inclined to remove downpipe cats.
> Almost guaranteed this thing had a hacked up EFI modification done by some tuner... those guys never really know what they're doing, AMG/Mercedes almost certainly won't share how that computer works since modifying it on a street car almost certainly is illegal and will cause the car to fail inspection.
You sure as hell don't know what you're talking about either, because most of the tunes don't touch the software as much as they change "maps" or the data tables that the ECU uses for fueling/AFR, ignition timing, cam profile (VANOS/VVT/VVL etc.).
The tunes themselves don't result in a failed inspection (I own a tuned BMW N54 motor myself, that passes inspection without any hacks) but if you're generating enough boost, it may be necessary to remove the catalytic converters in the downpipes after turbos for a smoother flow which results in a failed inspection. Most modern inspections rely on the ECU to report a failed/missing catalytic converter so getting around the inspection is an easy task for someone inclined to remove downpipe cats.
90% of modern cars have encrypted ECUs now, which means most data modification involves either fooling the stock system with a piggyback or waiting until the type breed of people who crack to videogame DRM get around to your specific car model. That being said I do think they did a shit job at tuning since it seems the only engine tuning they did was a turbo and piping package with no mention of the engine electronics or fuel system at all.
The vehicle had an huge fuel cell installed, it's likely they had much larger fuel pumps added to account for increased consumption caused by having a higher intake pressure.
As for electronics, what sort of upgrades are you imagining? A handbuilt AMG engine already has all the trick things you'd want for engine management any way.
As for electronics, what sort of upgrades are you imagining? A handbuilt AMG engine already has all the trick things you'd want for engine management any way.
Was your 1000 miles trip an application for an IBA membership?
https://www.ironbutt.org/
https://www.ironbutt.org/
the authorities should set a bounty of $1,000 for information leading to the arrest of a "Cannonballer"(?) en route. Each year the person who has let to the most captures would get a $3,000 bonus. That would make things interesting.
... after that escalation we can have more "red flag" laws too. Perhaps arrest people who are thinking about doing such things. Take me for example. My 700HP daily driver can do 200mph, honestly. I've thought about driving that fast. Best so far is 81mph. 81mph over the posted speed limit. No other cars in sight. Straight road. Uphill. Another couple of seconds would have given me a bigger thrill, a higher number. Turn me in.
Isn't that article enough proof so they could be convicted for speeding? After all they publicly admit of having broken the law.
Very few laws have an unlimited time you can be charged under the statute of limitation. Also most traffic tickets aren't even misdemeanors and it appears many places require those to be witnessed by a police officer of some sort so you'd have to prove both that they were speeding at a particular time and who was driving because you can't just charge the vehicle [0]. So in a strict sense the state has no hard evidence that they actually violated the speed limit other than their own word and no way to prove who was actually driving.
[0] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for...
[0] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-statute-of-limitations-for...
Can't imagine it would be.
If you were a member of say, the Utah State Police, and you saw this article, what would you do? Ok, a photo claims these guys drove cross-country averaging 103mph with a top speed of 193mph. Can you prove they didn't slow down to the speed limit while they were in Utah and only drove incredibly fast in the other states? Also, which one of these guys was actually driving while they were in Utah?
I believe the police would have to cite a specific individual for driving at an illegal speed at a specific location within their jurisdiction. Sort of like how everybody new Al Capone was a mob boss, but it was a struggle to actually charge him with a specific crime.
If you were a member of say, the Utah State Police, and you saw this article, what would you do? Ok, a photo claims these guys drove cross-country averaging 103mph with a top speed of 193mph. Can you prove they didn't slow down to the speed limit while they were in Utah and only drove incredibly fast in the other states? Also, which one of these guys was actually driving while they were in Utah?
I believe the police would have to cite a specific individual for driving at an illegal speed at a specific location within their jurisdiction. Sort of like how everybody new Al Capone was a mob boss, but it was a struggle to actually charge him with a specific crime.
One suspects they don't live in a state on the route.
In the US, speed limit laws are administered by states, under state jurisdictions.
In the US, speed limit laws are administered by states, under state jurisdictions.
I publicly admit to launching a massive pile of trash into space. The dump was closed and better to have one big pile in space than two small ones. I cannot tell a lie Officer Obie, I put that letter under that garbage.
The radar-jammers and tail-light kill-switches are very obviously illegal, even if you cannot prove they were used.
Don't commit massive crimes then brag about it on the internet.
Don't commit massive crimes then brag about it on the internet.
LIDAR jamming is not illegal, which is likely what they have. Light switches are also not illegal but could be used in an illegal way.