Cartridge cannot be used until printer is enrolled in HP Instant Ink(twitter.com)
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Cartridge cannot be used until printer is enrolled in HP Instant Ink
https://twitter.com/ryandonsullivan/status/1218149470220632064
171 comments
>I hope laser printers will never become such a scam product like inkjet...
They can already be, JFYI.
For years I had HP printers (only), when they (particularly their drivers) started to become crap (around 10 years ago) I switched to Brother (small office, 3-4 printers, very little print volume).
Lately, on two different multifunctions, "low cost" but rated for around 10,000-15,000 pages per month (we do like 1/10th of that or less) multifunction B/W laser printers, the fuser (rated for 100,000 pages) failed, on one machine at 18,000 pages, on the other at 46,000, printers are 3 or 4 years old (models DCP-8110DN and MFC-8520DN).
Cost of the spare fuser around 150 Euro! + some 30-50 Euro of labour, total 180-200.
Cost of a comparable brand new printer from Brother around 200-220 Euro.
After some research, I found out that half the world experienced the same on that particular "printing engine", which was used on several Brother models, and new series printer use a different one, with a fuser hopefully more reliable.
Anyway, besides the money involved, the obvious choice, buying two new printers would have meant sending to waste some 15 kg x 2 = 30 kg of material, so searched and found a few videos about the issue, bought for 25 Euro each two "fuser refurbishing kits" from China (roller+sleeve+grease) and in less than two hours time I "fixed" (at least temporarily) the issue (it is too recent to know how long the fusers will last).
Imagine that your car, that you paid some 30,000 Euro and that reasonably could do 200,000 km, at 50,000 and right out of warranty breaks a piston and you can only replace the whole engine block and it is a 28,000 Euro repair.
They can already be, JFYI.
For years I had HP printers (only), when they (particularly their drivers) started to become crap (around 10 years ago) I switched to Brother (small office, 3-4 printers, very little print volume).
Lately, on two different multifunctions, "low cost" but rated for around 10,000-15,000 pages per month (we do like 1/10th of that or less) multifunction B/W laser printers, the fuser (rated for 100,000 pages) failed, on one machine at 18,000 pages, on the other at 46,000, printers are 3 or 4 years old (models DCP-8110DN and MFC-8520DN).
Cost of the spare fuser around 150 Euro! + some 30-50 Euro of labour, total 180-200.
Cost of a comparable brand new printer from Brother around 200-220 Euro.
After some research, I found out that half the world experienced the same on that particular "printing engine", which was used on several Brother models, and new series printer use a different one, with a fuser hopefully more reliable.
Anyway, besides the money involved, the obvious choice, buying two new printers would have meant sending to waste some 15 kg x 2 = 30 kg of material, so searched and found a few videos about the issue, bought for 25 Euro each two "fuser refurbishing kits" from China (roller+sleeve+grease) and in less than two hours time I "fixed" (at least temporarily) the issue (it is too recent to know how long the fusers will last).
Imagine that your car, that you paid some 30,000 Euro and that reasonably could do 200,000 km, at 50,000 and right out of warranty breaks a piston and you can only replace the whole engine block and it is a 28,000 Euro repair.
To be fair, if you took it back to the car dealer, the only repair they're likely to offer is a factory engine swap. They're not going to do an engine rebuild in the service bay.
Taking it to an independent or DIY, you could rebuild the engine (analogous to what you did on your printer).
Taking it to an independent or DIY, you could rebuild the engine (analogous to what you did on your printer).
Sure, the point is that the car dealer would ask a "proportionate" price for the engine swap (even if not cheap, or not as cheap as a "punctual" repair) in the order of magnitude of 3,000 to 6,000 Euro, at the most 10,000 i.e. 10% or 20% or 30% at the most of the price of the car "new".
Here we are talking of 90% to 100% of the price of a new printer.
Here we are talking of 90% to 100% of the price of a new printer.
2011 Nissan Juke with five year/50,000 mile warranty. Bought in 2012, only one owner.
In good condition with roughly 45,000 miles in December of 2019, Kelley Blue Book resale value of about $7,000.00 USD.
Timing chain breaks. Out of warranty. Cost from dealer is estimated at $10,000 for a complete engine replacement, plus turbos. No joke.
Takes the vehicle down to net negative value, which can only be declared a complete loss and sold for parts.
NB: Cost estimate from reputable third parties is $7,000-8,000, not a full replacement but only a partial rebuild. Doesn’t materially change the result.
Timing chain breaks. Out of warranty. Cost from dealer is estimated at $10,000 for a complete engine replacement, plus turbos. No joke.
Takes the vehicle down to net negative value, which can only be declared a complete loss and sold for parts.
NB: Cost estimate from reputable third parties is $7,000-8,000, not a full replacement but only a partial rebuild. Doesn’t materially change the result.
Not quite true. I took our car in for a weird noise and they rebuilt just part of the transmission. The noise happened again and then they decided to replace the entire transmission. Both repairs were under warranty.
Well it is what happens when the item is out of warranty the issue at hand.
I am pretty sure that if my fusers went bad within the warranty period I might have had them replaced under warranty, or at least there are several reports that Brother did that.
My rant was only about the absurd prices of the spares.
I am pretty sure that if my fusers went bad within the warranty period I might have had them replaced under warranty, or at least there are several reports that Brother did that.
My rant was only about the absurd prices of the spares.
I put up with crappy inkjets for years, but last year finally had enough and bought a Brother DCP-L2530DW, for only £135.
What a revelation! Cartridges that seem to last forever, it never jams, it doesn't take an eternity to start and stop, it doesn't waste ink on every startup, it doesn't need "realigned" or "unclogged" or "cleaned" 3 times every single time I just want to print something...
I'm never going back to inkjets. I encourage anyone who is still putting up with them to make the switch to a small laser printer.
What a revelation! Cartridges that seem to last forever, it never jams, it doesn't take an eternity to start and stop, it doesn't waste ink on every startup, it doesn't need "realigned" or "unclogged" or "cleaned" 3 times every single time I just want to print something...
I'm never going back to inkjets. I encourage anyone who is still putting up with them to make the switch to a small laser printer.
Yup. We did the same. For years we didn't even have a printer because of being burned by so many crappy inkjets. Eventually my wife got sick enough of going to the copy shop to print stuff she insisted we buy a printer. I made sure we got a black and white laser printer. Best thing ever. It works like I expect it to work.
Checkout Epson inkjet Ecotank printers they are great.
https://epson.com/ecotank-ink-tank-printers
https://epson.com/ecotank-ink-tank-printers
What happens with those if you go a long time between print jobs?
One of the big points in favor of laser printers has been that they can be idle for a very long time without problems.
One of the big points in favor of laser printers has been that they can be idle for a very long time without problems.
If you leave them plugged in, they'll squirt out a little ink to prevent said clogging of the head. This is much more economical than washing dried ink residue out with loads of fresh ink.
I have a Brother with a similar approach. It has ink tanks with huge capacity and it powers up once a day to do something which I presume is keeping the heads clear.
It frightened the crap out of me once but I'm used to it now.
It frightened the crap out of me once but I'm used to it now.
Depends on the printer and manufacturer.
We've had a couple different HP inkjet printers, they would clog all the time when not used frequently. Run the cleaning cycle, still doesn't work, clean the nozzles with steam, repeat next month.
We've had a Brother inkjet, and it has been smooth sailing so far.
We've had a couple different HP inkjet printers, they would clog all the time when not used frequently. Run the cleaning cycle, still doesn't work, clean the nozzles with steam, repeat next month.
We've had a Brother inkjet, and it has been smooth sailing so far.
Nope, sorry, I'm really never going back to inkjets. I've wasted far too much money on them in the past, but more to the point I've wasted too much energy and time on them.
Across several inkjets over 10+ years, they've all been horrible, and maintenance-heavy - especially when they know you really need to print something!
Across several inkjets over 10+ years, they've all been horrible, and maintenance-heavy - especially when they know you really need to print something!
I've had an Epson ecotank for over a year now, and I've never needed to refill the ink tanks once. I purchased it because our previous inkjet printer's cartridges would run out about once every month or two. The driver software sucks but that is true for all home printers.
> I don‘t understand why people keep buying these inkjet scam printers. It‘s been like this for almost 2 decades.
I chose an inkjet for its size. I wanted a printer+scanner combo but the laser ones were enormous. Thankfully I don't have to print a lot so I don't mind the slower printing performance.
I chose an inkjet for its size. I wanted a printer+scanner combo but the laser ones were enormous. Thankfully I don't have to print a lot so I don't mind the slower printing performance.
Size was a big concern for me when I made the switch to laser to - I can recommend the Brother DCP-L2530DW, which isn't any bigger than a lot of inkjets.
Looks compact, yes. I was more looking into something with feeder. (I scan a lot)
Also, this is monochrome.
Also, this is monochrome.
Brother have a lot of different SKUs, and I seem to recall there were ones with feeders.
It is mono, yes. If you want a colour laser, it's going to cost a lot more, and be larger. There weren't too many practical (for me) options when I looked last year.
Personally, I'm really happy with it, as 99% of the time I don't need colour. When I do want to print photos, I use a print shop, which are cheap, can provide a variety of sizes, and produce much higher quality photos than you will get with consumer grade printers.
It is mono, yes. If you want a colour laser, it's going to cost a lot more, and be larger. There weren't too many practical (for me) options when I looked last year.
Personally, I'm really happy with it, as 99% of the time I don't need colour. When I do want to print photos, I use a print shop, which are cheap, can provide a variety of sizes, and produce much higher quality photos than you will get with consumer grade printers.
I bought my parents a $50 Brother laser printer about 12 years ago. They’ve been using it since then and I don’t think they’ve ever even changed the toner.
Before that, they’d buy new inkjet printers every year for the same price and ink a couple times a year because some specific color would dry up, and printing black and white wouldn’t work since the printer couldn’t print the mandatory stealth tracking codes. So much time and money wasted buying shitty inkjet printers (which seems to be all of those in the consumer market).
Before that, they’d buy new inkjet printers every year for the same price and ink a couple times a year because some specific color would dry up, and printing black and white wouldn’t work since the printer couldn’t print the mandatory stealth tracking codes. So much time and money wasted buying shitty inkjet printers (which seems to be all of those in the consumer market).
If I need to print photos, I go to a store with instant printing kiosks. It takes a few minutes to print dozens of photos and it‘s cheap, around 0,20-0,30€ per print (10x15cm).
It may be hard to imagine, but different people have different desires. Some people want the ability to print pictures at home.
Some people would also ask why I have an at home gym setup that all in cost a little under $10K when I could go to gym when I want to work out.
It may be hard to imagine, but different people have different desires. Some people want the ability to print pictures at home.
Some people would also ask why I have an at home gym setup that all in cost a little under $10K when I could go to gym when I want to work out.
It's true but I'd be surprised if it was a majority these days.
I will never buy another inkjet, they are simply too unreliable even using official inks.
My old Canon inkjet lasted me about 8 years but eventually died. After that I had a steady stream of $150-ish printers that were unreliable as the build quality had become too cheap.
I too have now a Brother colour laser and it's awesome. So reliable and fast, I no longer have to worry about my kids printing homework etc.
My old Canon inkjet lasted me about 8 years but eventually died. After that I had a steady stream of $150-ish printers that were unreliable as the build quality had become too cheap.
I too have now a Brother colour laser and it's awesome. So reliable and fast, I no longer have to worry about my kids printing homework etc.
Same. I got a B&W Brother laser printer (and scanner/fax) from Costco a few years ago and we haven't needed to get another toner cartridge yet, but toner is quite reasonably priced if I ever need it. I think we've done over 1000 pages (definitely hundreds), so it has more than paid for itself compared to a comparably priced inkjet.
Growing up we always had color inkjets, and while it was cool being able to print stuff in color at home, we always went to the local pharmacy to get pictures printed because the quality was so much better. Looking back, I think it was more expensive to print worse pictures at home anyway.
Black and white is enough for my uses and I have had zero problems with this printer, whereas previous printers always seemed to have a issues (smearing, jams, feed issues, etc). When I need pictures, I upload them to Costco and pick them up the next day.
Growing up we always had color inkjets, and while it was cool being able to print stuff in color at home, we always went to the local pharmacy to get pictures printed because the quality was so much better. Looking back, I think it was more expensive to print worse pictures at home anyway.
Black and white is enough for my uses and I have had zero problems with this printer, whereas previous printers always seemed to have a issues (smearing, jams, feed issues, etc). When I need pictures, I upload them to Costco and pick them up the next day.
For inkjet, i have an Epson Ecotankprinter that's equipped with refillable ink system. Very good move from Epson.
https://epson.com/ecotank-ink-tank-printers
https://epson.com/ecotank-ink-tank-printers
"I don‘t understand why people keep buying these inkjet scam printers. It‘s been like this for almost 2 decades."
Genuinely interested to know your thoughts on the danger of toner particles - either during normal operation or potential leaks/spills in changing cartridges.
We wanted out of the inkjet scam and I initially leaned towards a solid laser printer but then decided I didn't want to worry about toner in the air or potential toner spills.
I got the b&w brother printer (inkjet) that everyone loves and we've been perfectly happy with it...
Genuinely interested to know your thoughts on the danger of toner particles - either during normal operation or potential leaks/spills in changing cartridges.
We wanted out of the inkjet scam and I initially leaned towards a solid laser printer but then decided I didn't want to worry about toner in the air or potential toner spills.
I got the b&w brother printer (inkjet) that everyone loves and we've been perfectly happy with it...
Not the same person but I'm not aware of any health risks with laser toner
https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/office-printers-study-made-no...
"This study indicates an area for possible further environmental research. However, currently no health-related conclusions can be drawn from it."
https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/office-printers-study-made-no...
"This study indicates an area for possible further environmental research. However, currently no health-related conclusions can be drawn from it."
> I don‘t understand why people keep buying these inkjet scam printers. It‘s been like this for almost 2 decades.
Once, I bought a HP color inkjet multi-function device for AU$30 (new). (That's about US$21.)
As a printer it had lots of problems and soon I gave up even trying to use it as one. Never even bothered buying replacement toner.
But I was happy with it as a flat-bed scanner. And I only paid $30 for it.
Once, I bought a HP color inkjet multi-function device for AU$30 (new). (That's about US$21.)
As a printer it had lots of problems and soon I gave up even trying to use it as one. Never even bothered buying replacement toner.
But I was happy with it as a flat-bed scanner. And I only paid $30 for it.
> I don‘t understand why people keep buying these inkjet scam printers.
Flexibility. If my daughter wants to print something on photo paper for a craft she is doing, I can print right now and she can continue her work instead of having to find time to go to a store and wait. We switched from Laser to Inkjet.
Flexibility. If my daughter wants to print something on photo paper for a craft she is doing, I can print right now and she can continue her work instead of having to find time to go to a store and wait. We switched from Laser to Inkjet.
>I don‘t understand why people keep buying these inkjet scam printers
>If I need to print photos, I go to a store with instant printing kiosks.
Your solution to inkjet printer ownership is... paying to use one.
"I don't get why people keep buying cars. When I need to use one, I just hail an Uber."
>If I need to print photos, I go to a store with instant printing kiosks.
Your solution to inkjet printer ownership is... paying to use one.
"I don't get why people keep buying cars. When I need to use one, I just hail an Uber."
I do the same, and it works well for me.
The printers they use at print shops are not the same crappy, consumer-grade inkjets that people have in their homes - the quality is much better. And you don't need to deal with a constantly "needy" printer that guzzles ink like it's going out of fashion, and needs cleaned/declogged/realigned every time you look at it.
The printers they use at print shops are not the same crappy, consumer-grade inkjets that people have in their homes - the quality is much better. And you don't need to deal with a constantly "needy" printer that guzzles ink like it's going out of fashion, and needs cleaned/declogged/realigned every time you look at it.
According to my Wikipedia research, the photo kiosk printers are not even inkjets at all. They are thermosublimation printers. In any case, their output looks just like chemically developed photos, no comparison to any inkjets I have seen.
They might also be wax printers. When I worked (student job) for a medical imaging company, they had their customers use wax printers IIUC. At least that was what they used internally.
They might also be wax printers. When I worked (student job) for a medical imaging company, they had their customers use wax printers IIUC. At least that was what they used internally.
At the other end of the market, if you're putting photos on your wall, specialist photo printers who target the art market have quite a few different process options and some very interesting paper options, although you'll be looking at maybe GBP10+ or equivalent for an 8x10 print.
Many will give or sell you cheaply a sample pack - it was a revelation to me how good and broad the options were. This includes printing using old fashioned optical photo paper and a machine which is effectively a projecter to expose the image on it - I like this for black and white prints especially.
Many will give or sell you cheaply a sample pack - it was a revelation to me how good and broad the options were. This includes printing using old fashioned optical photo paper and a machine which is effectively a projecter to expose the image on it - I like this for black and white prints especially.
I have one of the Canon PRO-1000 printers. There was a really good sale going on a couple years ago, where I could get the printer + 2 full sets of inks for just the price of the inks.
It is incredibly expensive to operate, especially at low print volumes. If I were printing on it all day, it would probably be fine -- but I end up wasting probably half the ink in startup cycles.
But, when using good papers, it produces the most amazing prints I've ever had.
Now that I've used one, I'd never buy it again unless I had some sort of business that produced more volume -- but until I use up all the supplies I bought, I have the most amazing prints!
It is incredibly expensive to operate, especially at low print volumes. If I were printing on it all day, it would probably be fine -- but I end up wasting probably half the ink in startup cycles.
But, when using good papers, it produces the most amazing prints I've ever had.
Now that I've used one, I'd never buy it again unless I had some sort of business that produced more volume -- but until I use up all the supplies I bought, I have the most amazing prints!
I think it doesn’t work like you said. The GP has a printer, but one where he doesn’t need much maintenance. It just works. No need to have a 4 color printer that doesn’t print black and white when yellow is run out. No need to buy a new cardridge when the one you bought together with the last one is dried out. No need to buy original manufacturer cartridges because of some kind of DRM.
And frankly I do the same as the GP. I have a b/w Brother network laser printer and all computers in my home print to this. When we need to print photos once or twice a year we go to a shop and get 100 different photos at once.
If you want to compare this to cars I think it’s more of a “buy a good car that is reliable and works most of the time and rent a bus or get an uber for a special case”. Like these VW Bullis I hear about. They are great when they work but you don’t want to own one.
And frankly I do the same as the GP. I have a b/w Brother network laser printer and all computers in my home print to this. When we need to print photos once or twice a year we go to a shop and get 100 different photos at once.
If you want to compare this to cars I think it’s more of a “buy a good car that is reliable and works most of the time and rent a bus or get an uber for a special case”. Like these VW Bullis I hear about. They are great when they work but you don’t want to own one.
We do the exact same. Hands down it's the best solution.
No the solution is that inkjet is not needed except for a few rare moments where it delivers better results.
I have an oki laser colour printer, quality is on par with any inkjet I've seen except professional photo printers.
I have an oki laser colour printer, quality is on par with any inkjet I've seen except professional photo printers.
"Don't do it then" might be the most reasonable option,depending on the frequency of use.
If I had to buy a color printer for all the color printing I did during the last decade, it still would have cost me at least 10x more than paying through the nose for each printout - and that's for a cheap printer, never mind maintenance and the quality of the results.
In other words, ownership makes sense only from some level of usage.
If I had to buy a color printer for all the color printing I did during the last decade, it still would have cost me at least 10x more than paying through the nose for each printout - and that's for a cheap printer, never mind maintenance and the quality of the results.
In other words, ownership makes sense only from some level of usage.
If you only drive a car once a month (or less), then you should probably just hail an Uber. Color prints aren’t a big part of my life... I suspect this is pretty common. If I want to share a photo there are plenty of ways to share it them without committing them to paper.
If you rarely need a car, using an uber is absolutely the right solution. Most people don't print high quality photos at the frequency to justify owning an ink jet.
I was actually shopping for 2nd hand all in one wifi laser printer. Any good recommendations ? ~100 bucks (linux friendly would make it perfect)
Brother is absolutely better than HP. Ink cartridges last forever and no/less scammy spyware installs.
There’s a lot of nerd rage about nothing. He bought an ink cartridge with a subscription plan. When you stop paying the subscription it stops working. He could cancel the subscription, send the cartridge back and replace it with a normal cartridge.
I have a mix of music I bought from iTunes before Apple Music and Apple Music. If I cancel my subscription, I don’t have access to the subscription music but I keep access to the music I bought - DRM free.
What’s the difference?
I have a mix of music I bought from iTunes before Apple Music and Apple Music. If I cancel my subscription, I don’t have access to the subscription music but I keep access to the music I bought - DRM free.
What’s the difference?
The difference is dark patterns. They made him believe he was registering when he was actually subscribing.
Why would he think he needed to enter his credit card information just to “register”?
This is the marketing page for Instant Ink. It seems pretty clear to me:
https://instantink.hpconnected.com/us/en/l/
This is the marketing page for Instant Ink. It seems pretty clear to me:
https://instantink.hpconnected.com/us/en/l/
But he already paid for the ink, right?
So Apple Music seems like a bad comparison. If you stop paying for Apple Music, you lose access to the service that provides the music. In an apples to apples comparison, this would mean that he no longer has access to the service that provides the ink. But that is not what happened. HP reached out and inactivated a physical product that had already been delivered to him.
For an accurate comparison, say you signed up for a subscription of laundry soap through Amazon. Later, upon cancelling your subscription, Amazon not only cancelled your subscription service, but they reached out and (magically) mechanically sealed your last container of laundry soap, even though you had paid for it via the subscription cost.
This isn't the same as passively turning off a service. This is actively breaking something that someone already paid for.
Am I missing something?
So Apple Music seems like a bad comparison. If you stop paying for Apple Music, you lose access to the service that provides the music. In an apples to apples comparison, this would mean that he no longer has access to the service that provides the ink. But that is not what happened. HP reached out and inactivated a physical product that had already been delivered to him.
For an accurate comparison, say you signed up for a subscription of laundry soap through Amazon. Later, upon cancelling your subscription, Amazon not only cancelled your subscription service, but they reached out and (magically) mechanically sealed your last container of laundry soap, even though you had paid for it via the subscription cost.
This isn't the same as passively turning off a service. This is actively breaking something that someone already paid for.
Am I missing something?
He paid for a service that allows him to print X pages per month. As part of that service, HP provides ink cartridges so you can actually print those pages. He cancelled that service, so he can't use the ink provided for that service anymore. If the service was "we'll send you an ink cartridge every X months", then it'd be different. (One clear sign that the X pages are really the thing offered, outside the contract language: it doesn't matter what you print. If you print only full-page photos, you use a lot more ink than someone only printing letters, but for either HP will supply ink cartridges as needed)
To take your laundry soap example: You haven't subscribed to laundry soap, you've subscribed to a "2 washes per week" service, as part of which Amazon supplies you the soap you need for those washes. If you stop paying for that, you can't use the supplied material for more washes.
To take your laundry soap example: You haven't subscribed to laundry soap, you've subscribed to a "2 washes per week" service, as part of which Amazon supplies you the soap you need for those washes. If you stop paying for that, you can't use the supplied material for more washes.
That's easy to fix, just charge a termination fee for the unused ink. Low BS solution.
or just send the cartridge back and buy a regular cartridge.....
Yes. This is how it works, this is what he clicked the button "I agree" for.
He could have chosen the old way and buying the cartridges himself on a regular basis, but he chose the subscription model and now he wines about it.
What you need to understand about the subscription model is that you DON'T own the cartridge and you DON'T pay for the cartridge. You pay for printed pages. If the ink runs out, the printer automatically orders a set of new ones, for no additional cost. You receive a package to your preferred postal address, that contains the new ink and a sealable, labeled, post-stamped bag in which you will put the old ones and send it back to HP.
I absolutely love this model. I pay the minimal 2USD for it (if I exceed the monthly printable 50 pages, I get another 10p/$1, or upgrade my subscription. Unused quota accumulates up to 100p), and I get a monthly email about the detailed pricing.
Also, this way the used cartridges (dangerous waste) are handled properly and an environmentally friendly way.
He could have chosen the old way and buying the cartridges himself on a regular basis, but he chose the subscription model and now he wines about it.
What you need to understand about the subscription model is that you DON'T own the cartridge and you DON'T pay for the cartridge. You pay for printed pages. If the ink runs out, the printer automatically orders a set of new ones, for no additional cost. You receive a package to your preferred postal address, that contains the new ink and a sealable, labeled, post-stamped bag in which you will put the old ones and send it back to HP.
I absolutely love this model. I pay the minimal 2USD for it (if I exceed the monthly printable 50 pages, I get another 10p/$1, or upgrade my subscription. Unused quota accumulates up to 100p), and I get a monthly email about the detailed pricing.
Also, this way the used cartridges (dangerous waste) are handled properly and an environmentally friendly way.
You see, around ~10 years ago I could just buy online a (even non-genuine) refill kit and just refill the ink in the cartridges by myself. And I could use the printer whenever I wanted. If I run out of the ink, I would just buy the ink refill set which costed around 5-6€. Think that such kit could be re-used to fill multiple carriages and last many months. If I did not use the printer for 2 months, I would not need to pay any fee for just having a printer in idle state. I "owned" the printer.
Nowadays, you seem not to even "own" the printer nor the cartridges. Everything becomes a service where you should be in the loop continuously paying for it. And we are consciously supporting such economy.
Nowadays, you seem not to even "own" the printer nor the cartridges. Everything becomes a service where you should be in the loop continuously paying for it. And we are consciously supporting such economy.
Epson advertises a tank based injet on the TV. The ads star Shaq!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1GWHfg2P5Y
HP has a subscription printer, there's no printer apocalypse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1GWHfg2P5Y
HP has a subscription printer, there's no printer apocalypse.
I worked at Staples in university when the EcoTank printers first started coming to market. There was an Epson rep that came in and offered to print anything for anyone using the top-of-the-line model, as a demonstration of the quality and longevity of the ink and tanks, as well as promoting the cost benefits over even a cheap laser printer.
Needless to say, most of us employees (who were students at the same university) had everything printed. Textbooks, assignments, posters. Thousands upon thousands of pages got printed on those Saturdays, some days you'd swear it just went continuously from the minute we opened to well after we closed. With my family having owned nothing but lasers, I was incredibly impressed by it. Being able to refill the tanks while the printer was going was just incredible, leading to zero downtime or the suffering quality you start to see when cartridges run low.
For the low volume of printing I personally do, I'll stick to laser, but for those who do a lot of colour printing and want the high-quality inkjet offers, I'd go as far to say there's no competiton.
Needless to say, most of us employees (who were students at the same university) had everything printed. Textbooks, assignments, posters. Thousands upon thousands of pages got printed on those Saturdays, some days you'd swear it just went continuously from the minute we opened to well after we closed. With my family having owned nothing but lasers, I was incredibly impressed by it. Being able to refill the tanks while the printer was going was just incredible, leading to zero downtime or the suffering quality you start to see when cartridges run low.
For the low volume of printing I personally do, I'll stick to laser, but for those who do a lot of colour printing and want the high-quality inkjet offers, I'd go as far to say there's no competiton.
Haha - I've seen that one!
The best printer-related job for Shaq would seem to be crushing them in his giant hands. Can you picture him wearing bi-focals, trying to type on a standard keyboard with those frying pans?
The best printer-related job for Shaq would seem to be crushing them in his giant hands. Can you picture him wearing bi-focals, trying to type on a standard keyboard with those frying pans?
Sort of. Epson has tanks but charges for a “maintenance box” replacement that fills up with waste ink.
Can you empty that box yourself and reuse it?
Just asking because I was pleasantly surprised when I found out I could do this for a similar box in our office copy machine (this one catching waste toner particles) when the machine from one moment to the next stopped working without prior warning and wanted a fresh box.
I'm sure many do this. I honestly don't own a printer and make use of a nearby library instead.
some printers now use an "ink pad": "Caution: Power Cleaning may cause the ink pads to reach their capacity sooner. When an ink pad reaches the end of its service life, the product stops printing and you must contact Epson for support."
https://files.support.epson.com/docid/cpd5/cpd56719.pdf
some printers now use an "ink pad": "Caution: Power Cleaning may cause the ink pads to reach their capacity sooner. When an ink pad reaches the end of its service life, the product stops printing and you must contact Epson for support."
https://files.support.epson.com/docid/cpd5/cpd56719.pdf
It was his choice. He could either buy a regular cartridge or a subscription cartridge for the same printer.
Yup. I bought my mother a new printer a year or two back. She wanted Instant Ink, I explained how it would work but I was pretty cynical, nevertheless she was immediately attracted. "Are you sure?" I asked, "It makes no real difference to me which mid-range inkjet printer I buy you and some of these are reviewed as being cheap to run with large ink tanks you can re-fill yourself". She was insistent that HP's Instant Ink business model fitted her needs. I installed the printer & set up Instant Ink before I left.
A year later she reports everything working out just how she wanted and no regrets. She's on one of the middle tiers so it's not an inconsiderable amount of money but she prints quite a lot of stuff, she does craft projects with local kids in various organisations and does dress making, these days mostly for dolls because we (her kids) grew up - and it all ends up using paper patterns. She enjoys the small puzzle of managing the page budget to avoid excess fees, and she very much likes never finding that it's low on ink unexpectedly without a spare cartridge ready to go because of course HP ensures that frustration won't happen.
A year later she reports everything working out just how she wanted and no regrets. She's on one of the middle tiers so it's not an inconsiderable amount of money but she prints quite a lot of stuff, she does craft projects with local kids in various organisations and does dress making, these days mostly for dolls because we (her kids) grew up - and it all ends up using paper patterns. She enjoys the small puzzle of managing the page budget to avoid excess fees, and she very much likes never finding that it's low on ink unexpectedly without a spare cartridge ready to go because of course HP ensures that frustration won't happen.
Yes. I do this too with ink from Precision Colors for photo printing. The cost per page is a fraction of ordering new, original carts. They even include a chip to reset the "low ink" flag built in to the cart that is suppose to prevent you from refilling.
[0] http://precisioncolors.com/
[0] http://precisioncolors.com/
This is still possible today. Costco has an ink refill service [1], which I assume should support all printers they sell.
[1]: https://costcoinkjetrefill.com/
[1]: https://costcoinkjetrefill.com/
Its not a perfect match as the inkjet refills are provided by another company (called RIS) but it does cover a lot of printers and has the ability to re-chip many cartridges that are protected from reuse that way
Same as with running water. Thankfully I don't have to dig my own well anymore, even worse: in some countries I'm not even allowed to, and I have to pay for the service!
This model is there for a very long time, and makes our lives much easier. And if it doesn't lock you in, is offered for quite cheap (we are talking about $3-5 per month, or even the free tier) I don't see the problem with it. As long as you have the freedom of choice (to switch vendors, or do it yourself), I don't see the problem.
This model is there for a very long time, and makes our lives much easier. And if it doesn't lock you in, is offered for quite cheap (we are talking about $3-5 per month, or even the free tier) I don't see the problem with it. As long as you have the freedom of choice (to switch vendors, or do it yourself), I don't see the problem.
Water supply is a natural monopoly which is pretty different straight away. The externalities are really nasty (say you extract water under your property, the water doesn't care about property lines so water will flow from other land and potentially cause subsidence, a big cost to somebody else) and water is actually part of a global cycle so while one person can get away with just taking their water from a well and dumping effluent into the lake if a million people do that a bunch of them are going to die.
And as a result of all this it's heavily regulated unlike printer ink.
And as a result of all this it's heavily regulated unlike printer ink.
[deleted]
"I absolutely love this model."
You are right, the model is great for some people in some cases. However, its a model where companies use software to lock you out of being able to use your hardware. This is becoming extremely widespread. Consider also the farmers having to deal with the John Deere tractor licenses and being unable to maintain their own equipment (or Apple preventing you from being able to upgrade or repair your macs/iphones).
The problem is that as the practice scales, people end up with no real property rights, and are just ensnared in a hundred terms of service agreements that they literally cannot escape while living a normal life.
Lots of potentially dangerous things are harmless or even pleasant on a small scale.
You are right, the model is great for some people in some cases. However, its a model where companies use software to lock you out of being able to use your hardware. This is becoming extremely widespread. Consider also the farmers having to deal with the John Deere tractor licenses and being unable to maintain their own equipment (or Apple preventing you from being able to upgrade or repair your macs/iphones).
The problem is that as the practice scales, people end up with no real property rights, and are just ensnared in a hundred terms of service agreements that they literally cannot escape while living a normal life.
Lots of potentially dangerous things are harmless or even pleasant on a small scale.
While I agree I think that domestic printing is and should be increasingly obsolete so I opted for free tier printing specifically because I wanted a fallback (like keeping an old USB CD-ROM drive in case - like my canon camera firmware was not online and only on the CD they sent me).
If you are occasionally forced to send in a paper form or your flight carrier insists on a printed boarding pass etc. it doesn't make economic sense to keep a printer functional at normal cost.
I see HP free tier as a legacy support system.
Ideally I'd print nothing. It's maddening how much bureaucracy still requires printing.
But I agree that on devices that you depend on it is weird.
I live in Amsterdam and have a subscription bike (and I pay for the fact that I will always have a replacement bike if any issues come up)... but I guess I wouldn't like a situation where I couldn't buy (and repair) a regular bike.
If you are occasionally forced to send in a paper form or your flight carrier insists on a printed boarding pass etc. it doesn't make economic sense to keep a printer functional at normal cost.
I see HP free tier as a legacy support system.
Ideally I'd print nothing. It's maddening how much bureaucracy still requires printing.
But I agree that on devices that you depend on it is weird.
I live in Amsterdam and have a subscription bike (and I pay for the fact that I will always have a replacement bike if any issues come up)... but I guess I wouldn't like a situation where I couldn't buy (and repair) a regular bike.
Why not just go to your local library and print for $0.10/page or whatever? Our library is super small and still supports WiFi printing (I assume with a credit card to release print jobs). For photos, I go to Costco or the local pharmacy, which seems to always have decent photo printers.
If you can plan ahead a little, you don't ever need to actually have a printer on hand.
However, if you print frequently, a B&W laser printer is probably a worthwhile investment. I bought one when my wife needed to do immigration paper work and it has been great. We still use it quite frequently to print out coloring sheets or whatever for my kids, as well as for sending in the occasional form. I haven't needed to buy a new toner cartridge, and I have printed around 1000 pages and it still prints as clearly as the day I bought it. I think we've spent about the same as printing at our library, but from the convenience of our home, and I've used the scanner function several times, as well as the bulk copy feature (insert stack of paper and it copies them all).
If you only print occasionally (1-2x/year), check out your local library or office supply store. If you print more frequently, a laser printer is most likely what you want, especially if you only need black and white. If you print a lot of color, maybe getting a color inkjet is worthwhile if you like the look of ink over toner. Most people shouldn't own an inkjet printer.
If you can plan ahead a little, you don't ever need to actually have a printer on hand.
However, if you print frequently, a B&W laser printer is probably a worthwhile investment. I bought one when my wife needed to do immigration paper work and it has been great. We still use it quite frequently to print out coloring sheets or whatever for my kids, as well as for sending in the occasional form. I haven't needed to buy a new toner cartridge, and I have printed around 1000 pages and it still prints as clearly as the day I bought it. I think we've spent about the same as printing at our library, but from the convenience of our home, and I've used the scanner function several times, as well as the bulk copy feature (insert stack of paper and it copies them all).
If you only print occasionally (1-2x/year), check out your local library or office supply store. If you print more frequently, a laser printer is most likely what you want, especially if you only need black and white. If you print a lot of color, maybe getting a color inkjet is worthwhile if you like the look of ink over toner. Most people shouldn't own an inkjet printer.
For some engineering stuff it’s useful too, checking the size or fit of something.
Really? I live in the Netherlands as well and haven't had to print something in ages. If I have to I'll just go to the library which is right next to the supermarket.
I do write the address on envelopes by hand, which I would use a printer for if I'd own one.
I do write the address on envelopes by hand, which I would use a printer for if I'd own one.
Things I print: manuscripts to edit (easier to mark up), crosswords to solve, sheets for PnP RPGs, print and play games, patterns for children, etc
I basically markup manuscripts 50% of my day, I live in OneNote (on Surface Pro). For MS I'm quite impressed, there's a few annoyances (and work won't let me try OneTastic) but overall it works -- I've not printed anything for my own use since I started using it.
I'm a British expat and for example:
- Some of my forms for UK electoral registration.
- For 30% ruling the firm doing my application sent a form to print band return
- I set up a sole trader company and had to print and bring form to my setup meeting.
There were a few others too. The NL itself is generally good for digital services though. I only need to print a few things a year. Nothing frequent.
- Some of my forms for UK electoral registration.
- For 30% ruling the firm doing my application sent a form to print band return
- I set up a sole trader company and had to print and bring form to my setup meeting.
There were a few others too. The NL itself is generally good for digital services though. I only need to print a few things a year. Nothing frequent.
The main thing I use my printer for is printing postage when I send packages. Is that not a thing in the Netherlands?
At least in Germany I usually get a QR code for the online bought postage I just show at the local post office on my phone. They print out the the postage thing on a sticker. I need to go there anyways with the package.
Ah, that's a little more involved than what I'm used to in the United States.
Here I can print a piece of paper with an address and 2D bar code on it (which is the postage), tape the label to a box, and leave it where the mailman can find it (usually on my front porch), drop it in the outgoing mail at work, or hand it to any mailman I see. No visiting a post office to mail things.
Here I can print a piece of paper with an address and 2D bar code on it (which is the postage), tape the label to a box, and leave it where the mailman can find it (usually on my front porch), drop it in the outgoing mail at work, or hand it to any mailman I see. No visiting a post office to mail things.
Some of us still have problems reading off of LCDs all day and tablets still don't cut it. Maybe e-ink will eventually be ok.
Yeah that's true. I bought a USB e-ink monitor na few years back, but the refresh rate was intolerable.
I have high hopes for a technology like that though. Natural contrast ratio as brightness increases is a wonderful thing.
Phones have got ridiculously bright backlights to solve this, and still sunglasses and a sunny day completely ruin the experience.
I have high hopes for a technology like that though. Natural contrast ratio as brightness increases is a wonderful thing.
Phones have got ridiculously bright backlights to solve this, and still sunglasses and a sunny day completely ruin the experience.
I just print stuff at work.
That's why when you buy an HP printer, you can choose whether you use Instant Ink or buy your cartridges, the old fashioned way.
You are right. Same as with vendor lock-in when a business chooses platforms (hello, Oracle).
However, in this case, I like the idea that if tomorrow I wanted to print with Epson, I can sell / abandon this given HP printer and my future printing needs won't depend on my relationship with HP now. (OTOH, I am using HP printer/scanners for 10y now and this is the only brand I am satisfied with, especially for their Linux support).
> the model is great for some people in some cases. I know that my needs might be not the same as others'. For me the model immediately clicked because of my preferences (environmental friendliness, automated ink orders - this one is super convenient since I travel a lot and in the past the ink ran out EXACTLY when I needed on that only weekend when I was finally at home, etc.)
Anyhow, to me this only tells that this dude should probably rethink his finances if he has no idea what subscriptions he has. After that, maybe he should be aware what terms and conditions he accepted, instead of making a fool of himself on twitter.
Also, sometimes the lengthy T&C is a trick to make you buy a shitty service with a lot of hidden fees. Now if you check out their webpage[1], it's crystal clear what it is about, and what are their prices.
[1]: https://instantink.hpconnected.com/us/en/l/
However, in this case, I like the idea that if tomorrow I wanted to print with Epson, I can sell / abandon this given HP printer and my future printing needs won't depend on my relationship with HP now. (OTOH, I am using HP printer/scanners for 10y now and this is the only brand I am satisfied with, especially for their Linux support).
> the model is great for some people in some cases. I know that my needs might be not the same as others'. For me the model immediately clicked because of my preferences (environmental friendliness, automated ink orders - this one is super convenient since I travel a lot and in the past the ink ran out EXACTLY when I needed on that only weekend when I was finally at home, etc.)
Anyhow, to me this only tells that this dude should probably rethink his finances if he has no idea what subscriptions he has. After that, maybe he should be aware what terms and conditions he accepted, instead of making a fool of himself on twitter.
Also, sometimes the lengthy T&C is a trick to make you buy a shitty service with a lot of hidden fees. Now if you check out their webpage[1], it's crystal clear what it is about, and what are their prices.
[1]: https://instantink.hpconnected.com/us/en/l/
Now that I look at it. This is actually an excellent idea. I would go for the free plan in a heartbeat and pay $1 more for just the rare times I want to print some vacation photos.
However, its a model where companies use software to lock you out of being able to use your hardware.
It does no such thing. He could send the subscription ink cartridge back and buy a regular cartridge for his printer.
It does no such thing. He could send the subscription ink cartridge back and buy a regular cartridge for his printer.
> However, its a model where companies use software to lock you out of being able to use your hardware.
To be clear: Anyone using HP Instant Ink (II) can cancel II and buy a non-II cartridge and be on their merry way. As noted in other parts of this post: The only thing OP was blocked from doing was using an II cartridge after he stopped paying for the II service.
Disclaimer: I do agree the tractor licensing situation is not good, but it's also not the same as this situation.
To be clear: Anyone using HP Instant Ink (II) can cancel II and buy a non-II cartridge and be on their merry way. As noted in other parts of this post: The only thing OP was blocked from doing was using an II cartridge after he stopped paying for the II service.
Disclaimer: I do agree the tractor licensing situation is not good, but it's also not the same as this situation.
This is a very devious business model, yet it is something that HBR reading PHBs seem to be completely obsessed now:
People in the industry it "Product as a Service": you buy a widget, but you don't own it, and have to keep paying the seller for the right to use it.
Just google: instantInk and scam
People in the industry it "Product as a Service": you buy a widget, but you don't own it, and have to keep paying the seller for the right to use it.
Just google: instantInk and scam
This is just not "your" hardware anymore, like the Kindle e-books you bought at Amazon are not your books or music you paid for to iTunes is not your music.
This is not a sarcasm, I'm just trying to adapt myself to this brand new world and not to cringe when hearing words like this from myself or anyone else.
This is not a sarcasm, I'm just trying to adapt myself to this brand new world and not to cringe when hearing words like this from myself or anyone else.
Not to take away from your point, but music purchased from iTunes is your music. Purchased iTunes music is completely DRM free and can be played anyway you want by just copying the files. I'm pretty sure Amazon digital music purchases are DRM free as well.
Would you say that a pinball machine uses it's software to lock it's hardwsre if you don't play ?
"You receive a package to your preferred postal address, that contains the new ink and a sealable, labeled, post-stamped bag in which you will put the old ones and send it back to HP."
People seem to be missing this part. It's like returning a rental car.
You are technically obliged to return the cartridges contractually I believe. The fact that they don't pursue you if you don't is at least a small positive.
I can see why some think it's a dark pattern, but it's usual in a rental type scenario to return the thing that was on loan to you
People seem to be missing this part. It's like returning a rental car.
You are technically obliged to return the cartridges contractually I believe. The fact that they don't pursue you if you don't is at least a small positive.
I can see why some think it's a dark pattern, but it's usual in a rental type scenario to return the thing that was on loan to you
On top of that companies make refillable inkjets now. I own Epson like this - runs out of ink, add more ink from the bottle. I’m completely satisfied because there is no cartridge nonsense. In theory I can use cheaper non-Epson ink, but I don’t bother since cost is reasonable.
Am I completely out of the loop? Ink-jet printers were always an insane rip-of, and I got a laser printer once those became cheap enough a bit more than a decade ago. Can't do color, but it prints pretty fast and you don't get issues if the paper gets wet.
I went with a Samsung postscript compatible, duplex black and white laser 5+ years ago. It was a bit over $100. The only problem I’ve had is that there’s a wifi setup button that the cat presses, which disconnects it from wifi.
These days, a duplex, 600 dpi color laser is < $200 (though the first hit is a Canon that is not postscript, smb, or lpr compatible, so watch your wallet...)
My last N inkjets died due to dried up heads (a Brother all in one scanner printer dried out and ruined the permanent heads in a month or two, on the starter cartridge!) or removal of windows driver support (It was an HP; Linux still worked fine...).
Sadly, Samsung sold their printer business to HP. The model I have costs more used than I paid for it new. :-(
These days, a duplex, 600 dpi color laser is < $200 (though the first hit is a Canon that is not postscript, smb, or lpr compatible, so watch your wallet...)
My last N inkjets died due to dried up heads (a Brother all in one scanner printer dried out and ruined the permanent heads in a month or two, on the starter cartridge!) or removal of windows driver support (It was an HP; Linux still worked fine...).
Sadly, Samsung sold their printer business to HP. The model I have costs more used than I paid for it new. :-(
I use a government surplus HP Laserjet 1160. I spotted it on top of a dumpster when I was a poor college kid, took it home, and used it for months before I had to buy toner for it.
Generic toner cartridges are $15, and last months to years for me. The printer still has a “Department of Defense” inventory sticker on it.
Generic toner cartridges are $15, and last months to years for me. The printer still has a “Department of Defense” inventory sticker on it.
They figured out there is a market segment for cartridge-less refillable inkjets and now sell them as well. They cost more than regular inkjets, on par with cheap laser printers.
Yes people who want to print color by color printers. Color printing has been a thing for two decades.
Amazing when a competitive market leads companies to offer a diverse set of products under various theories of finding product-market fit by prioritizing either end-user convenience vs. price & economy!
Also amazing that people will get angry that a company would dare offer a product that doesn’t exactly conform to their own ideological bent.
Also amazing that people will get angry that a company would dare offer a product that doesn’t exactly conform to their own ideological bent.
I bet that epson still has a programmed death event and will start barking about the print head after x number of pages. We needed an open source printer yesterday, but of course the priorities aren't there because it is just a printer after all.
> Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture stating that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of the views being parodied.
Your comment extolling the virtues of subscription locked rental ink has me here.
Your comment extolling the virtues of subscription locked rental ink has me here.
I think HP are selling printers now where the in-box cartridges are part of Instant Ink, so it's possible that "chose" here could mean "was foolish enough to purchase a printer from HP, king of the ink rip-off".
The blades are always over priced when the razor is under-priced. We can't have it both ways.
The cartridges are not particularly dangerous, nor does HP recycle them (common misconceptions). The reason they send you a prepaid envelope is so that you mail the cartridge back to them instead selling it to a remanufacturer.
Edit: stop downvoting me, I am a printing industry expert
Edit: stop downvoting me, I am a printing industry expert
Appeals to authority are unlikely to move this crowd.
Not so much an appeal to authority as this is a fact I am correct about
>is that you DON'T own the cartridge and you DON'T pay for the cartridge. You pay for printed pages.
>pay the minimal 2USD for it (if I exceed the monthly printable 50 pages, I get another 10p/$1, or upgrade my subscription. Unused quota accumulates up to 100p), and I get a monthly email about the detailed pricing.
This model doesn't make sense to me. Why are you paying by the page and not by the amount of ink actually used?
That's like paying for internet by the number of webpages you visit as opposed to the bandwidth you use.
The ink is the product you are using. Unless they're supplying the paper too? It makes sense to charge by the page in a place like Staples or something, but as a subscription for a home printer it seems ridiculous to pay by the page.
>pay the minimal 2USD for it (if I exceed the monthly printable 50 pages, I get another 10p/$1, or upgrade my subscription. Unused quota accumulates up to 100p), and I get a monthly email about the detailed pricing.
This model doesn't make sense to me. Why are you paying by the page and not by the amount of ink actually used?
That's like paying for internet by the number of webpages you visit as opposed to the bandwidth you use.
The ink is the product you are using. Unless they're supplying the paper too? It makes sense to charge by the page in a place like Staples or something, but as a subscription for a home printer it seems ridiculous to pay by the page.
> The ink is the product you are using.
You can think of the ink as an implementation detail. With this model you're paying for a capability that happens to be priced on a per-page basis. That's simpler/more understandable for most people than pricing by, say, ink volume.
Yes, this can seem very strange, and it won't make sense for everybody.
You can think of the ink as an implementation detail. With this model you're paying for a capability that happens to be priced on a per-page basis. That's simpler/more understandable for most people than pricing by, say, ink volume.
Yes, this can seem very strange, and it won't make sense for everybody.
[deleted]
It's charge by the page because it's a simple metric that everyone will understand.
Mostly, people aren't printing full coverage (unless it's photos), because it makes the paper soggy.
Postage is probably a bigger cost than ink for HP here; especially for lower volume users who need new cartridges based on time rather than volume.
Mostly, people aren't printing full coverage (unless it's photos), because it makes the paper soggy.
Postage is probably a bigger cost than ink for HP here; especially for lower volume users who need new cartridges based on time rather than volume.
> Also, this way the used cartridges (dangerous waste) are handled properly and an environmentally friendly way.
You don't need a subscription model for this. At least for laser printers, HP allows you to mail back your used cartridges to them, free of charge to you.
You don't need a subscription model for this. At least for laser printers, HP allows you to mail back your used cartridges to them, free of charge to you.
kmarc says>"and now he _wines_ about it."
"Whines! Whines!" NOT "wines"!
Whine - intransitive verb. (1)To produce a sustained, high-pitched, plaintive sound, as in pain, fear, or complaint. (2)To complain or protest in a childish or annoying fashion.
To _wine_ is to drink wine!
I am whining in sense (1), although you are not here to witness my anguish at your language. I might be whining in sense (2) in this post, b/c I am fairly certain that no one but myself cares.
Otherwise, nice note on the good points of the subscription model for print cartridges.
"Whines! Whines!" NOT "wines"!
Whine - intransitive verb. (1)To produce a sustained, high-pitched, plaintive sound, as in pain, fear, or complaint. (2)To complain or protest in a childish or annoying fashion.
To _wine_ is to drink wine!
I am whining in sense (1), although you are not here to witness my anguish at your language. I might be whining in sense (2) in this post, b/c I am fairly certain that no one but myself cares.
Otherwise, nice note on the good points of the subscription model for print cartridges.
I own one of these and it’s well explained too. They ask for signup information, a credit card, etc. explaining exactly why they need it.
I can understand if you forgot all of this I guess, but it seems hard to forget to me, when it’s such a unique setup flow to a printer and they warn multiple times.
Edit: oh no, it seems that OP actually got shafted by a change to this experience... bummer.
I can understand if you forgot all of this I guess, but it seems hard to forget to me, when it’s such a unique setup flow to a printer and they warn multiple times.
Edit: oh no, it seems that OP actually got shafted by a change to this experience... bummer.
[deleted]
It seems to me from the tweet that he was being charged without it being made clear to him that this is what he was being charged for.
If your subscribers don’t understand that to which they are subscribed, that seems like a problem to me.
If your subscribers don’t understand that to which they are subscribed, that seems like a problem to me.
12xo(1)
InkJet printers are a scam. And not [only] because of the "genuine" cartridge lock in, but because they are trash devices.
I had 2 "low-end" HP printers that would die after 2 years (warranty period). The way they would die is very interesting: The printer would receive the document to print, pull in paper, start priting but not pull the paper so everything would get printed on one line. Then, when it is done printing, it would move the paper properly, in steps, without printing anything, until it's "done", when it would eject the paper. That is a software problem, because 1. it can pull the paper precisely, and 2. it can print. It just desynchronizes the pulling of paper with the printing.
After that, I got another HP printer that was 3 times the price, which works right now, but it's absolutely trash quality. It cost 100€, and I'm comparing it's color print quality to a color laser printer at work, from Konica Minolta, which is actually 5 times the price, the but the quality, speed of printing, reliability and cost of maintenance (and the fact it's been printing hundreds of pages per day for 5 years without duying yet).
InkJet printers are awful in quality, cost more to own, require regular maintenance, break or pause in critical moments ("Please wait while the printer performs head alingment", "The printer is priting a test page. When done, please scan the page and click OK to continue. ", "The printer is cleaning the head surface. Please wait. This may use up a large amount of ink. ") and slower than laser printers.
This is not mentioning the fact that print quality in black is atrocious on cheaper InkJets, which specify a huge resolution but in reality the dots are misaligned and fuzzy.
Basically, awful devices. Printers in general are awful devices, but consumer InkJets are a whole different level.
Edit: I just checked, Konica Minolta in Belgrade (Serbia), represented by Konica Minolta Business Solutions Europe GmbH, literally only does "Industrial InkJet printers" now, and has subscription models for whole printers, where a company pays a monthly subscription for a printer, and has that printer maintained on-premise, replaced with no downtime, refilled and has some level of additional support. I'm not sure that's what my workplace uses.
I had 2 "low-end" HP printers that would die after 2 years (warranty period). The way they would die is very interesting: The printer would receive the document to print, pull in paper, start priting but not pull the paper so everything would get printed on one line. Then, when it is done printing, it would move the paper properly, in steps, without printing anything, until it's "done", when it would eject the paper. That is a software problem, because 1. it can pull the paper precisely, and 2. it can print. It just desynchronizes the pulling of paper with the printing.
After that, I got another HP printer that was 3 times the price, which works right now, but it's absolutely trash quality. It cost 100€, and I'm comparing it's color print quality to a color laser printer at work, from Konica Minolta, which is actually 5 times the price, the but the quality, speed of printing, reliability and cost of maintenance (and the fact it's been printing hundreds of pages per day for 5 years without duying yet).
InkJet printers are awful in quality, cost more to own, require regular maintenance, break or pause in critical moments ("Please wait while the printer performs head alingment", "The printer is priting a test page. When done, please scan the page and click OK to continue. ", "The printer is cleaning the head surface. Please wait. This may use up a large amount of ink. ") and slower than laser printers.
This is not mentioning the fact that print quality in black is atrocious on cheaper InkJets, which specify a huge resolution but in reality the dots are misaligned and fuzzy.
Basically, awful devices. Printers in general are awful devices, but consumer InkJets are a whole different level.
Edit: I just checked, Konica Minolta in Belgrade (Serbia), represented by Konica Minolta Business Solutions Europe GmbH, literally only does "Industrial InkJet printers" now, and has subscription models for whole printers, where a company pays a monthly subscription for a printer, and has that printer maintained on-premise, replaced with no downtime, refilled and has some level of additional support. I'm not sure that's what my workplace uses.
Stop buying HP. All their products are trash... including printers and computers
https://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/ww20150416.html
My conclusion is that unless you're printing 50+ large photos or hundreds of 4"x6" pics per year, the total cost of just ordering prints from a print shop is much lower than owning an inkjet.
One benefit of this Instant Ink subscription thing: you pay per printed page, not for ink usage. Doesn't matter if the page is white with some black lines, or a full-size photo.
But yes, if you don't need them now professional printing is quite cheap and you need to invest quite a bit to get the same quality at home.
But yes, if you don't need them now professional printing is quite cheap and you need to invest quite a bit to get the same quality at home.
When I print once a year, and the heads dry out before each job, and then the printer dies completely one day after the normal warranty period, do I stil just pay the minimum monthly fee and receive all the replacement e-waste for free, or are there other charges (like buying a new printer?). Does HP pay the recycling fees (and buy carbon offsets) for waste stream this produces?
This is exactly my usage pattern for printers, and why I switched to a laser printer.
This is exactly my usage pattern for printers, and why I switched to a laser printer.
Yes, given the fact the quality is much better in a print shop, and the fact that InkJets are awful at everything, including printing black, which lasers excel at, even the cheap ones. Ironically I print mostly text, so I have no reason to even own an InkJet printer.
Was he tricked into buying a an ink cartridges subscription and hadn’t noticed he was paying for one?
It's really a mystery for me how he got his subscription without noticing it.
By default I trust people's good faith but this time I'm really wondering whether he was really surprised, or if he knew what he was doing but feigned it for Internet fame.
I have an HP printer, I use Instant Ink because I chose to. By default it just works like a regular printer, you buy cartridges and there is no subscription to pay.
By default I trust people's good faith but this time I'm really wondering whether he was really surprised, or if he knew what he was doing but feigned it for Internet fame.
I have an HP printer, I use Instant Ink because I chose to. By default it just works like a regular printer, you buy cartridges and there is no subscription to pay.
On top of the fact that he bought an inkjet printer in the first place, which seems silly enough in this day and age.
I bought a quite expensive (300 euro) color laser printer about 4 years ago (a HP, but I'm happy with it). I have never replaced the toner, but do need to print from time to time. If I had bought an inkjet printer I'm pretty sure I would have spent more on cartridges by now. Mostly because cartridges dry out. Not on HP printers, but on some, it causes the printer to fail permanently too if a cartridge is dry (Epson comes to mind).
Well instant ink has a free tier. So I have bought an $80 inkjet and then payed a total of about $5 on ink since then when I went over the free limit.
Across about 3 years so far.
But HP spy on me via my printer.
Across about 3 years so far.
But HP spy on me via my printer.
It's not quite as bad anymore as it was a few years ago. Inkjets have become competitive again in quite a few domains, with pricing now being a lot less silly.
epson ink printers have a cheap cost per color printed page since ink is sold in bottles
I have an HP Envy 7800 series printer that is not enrolled in Instant Ink and it works just fine. HP asked me once during driver installation to subscribe to the subscription service, I said no, and it has not asked me again.
One technical advantage HP has over Brother is the printer head is integrated into the cartridge. I previously owned an expensive Brother office inkjet printer and the printer head got into a bad state where no matter how many times I cleaned the head or replaced ink I had streaks. Another issue with Brother is it would not let me print black and white if I did not have color ink installed (HP does).
Compared with the Epson EcoTank is there is an unused ink reservoir (called an ink pad) that will collect ink during cleaning cycles and other operations. Once this reservoir is full the printer has reached end of life (and Epson does not recommend servicing it). The EcoTank is really expensive as well.
One technical advantage HP has over Brother is the printer head is integrated into the cartridge. I previously owned an expensive Brother office inkjet printer and the printer head got into a bad state where no matter how many times I cleaned the head or replaced ink I had streaks. Another issue with Brother is it would not let me print black and white if I did not have color ink installed (HP does).
Compared with the Epson EcoTank is there is an unused ink reservoir (called an ink pad) that will collect ink during cleaning cycles and other operations. Once this reservoir is full the printer has reached end of life (and Epson does not recommend servicing it). The EcoTank is really expensive as well.
I bought an Instant Ink printer in 3Q 2019. I don't print much so a free 10 pages per month (on a sale priced all-in-one) appeals to me.
My biggest concern is privacy / security. In theory HP - or someone else? - can now see anything I print/scan/copy. I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with the idea.
My biggest concern is privacy / security. In theory HP - or someone else? - can now see anything I print/scan/copy. I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with the idea.
The cartridges are also special high capacity ones, but essentially you pay for the subscription to use the cartridges (which are sent for free automatically) at the cost of your data.
Page limits are defined by the tier you are on.
It would not make sense to allow the user to continue using them out of, because their retail price is generally above the subscription costs, so it would otherwise allow people to keep subscribing and cancelling.
Page limits are defined by the tier you are on.
It would not make sense to allow the user to continue using them out of, because their retail price is generally above the subscription costs, so it would otherwise allow people to keep subscribing and cancelling.
I should clarify. It's in the contract you're meant to send them back to HP. They have a postage paid bag to return them in. That's true when they run out but also when you cancel.
Great so many people consider Brother. A year ago I've had enough of the mainstream printer mafia and thought I need to support a different manufacturer. Got DCP-J772DW. It's an inkjet, but feels well built and cartridges last. Also, the Linux CUPS driver is easy to adapt for FreeBSD. There is a HOWTO on FreeBSD forums if anyone considers going this way.
This service seems to send a new ink cartridge when the current cartridge is running low. The monthly price depends on how much you print, and there is a free tier that allows for 15 pages/month but you will be charged $1/10 pages if you print more than 15 pages. It seems you need to provide a credit card even for the free tier.
https://instantink.hpconnected.com/
https://support.hp.com/nz-en/document/c03767640
They seem to brick your cartridge to prevent the plan being cancelled just after they send you a cartridge, which could be done on the free tier. I don't like it in theory but it makes sense they would disable it.
https://instantink.hpconnected.com/
https://support.hp.com/nz-en/document/c03767640
They seem to brick your cartridge to prevent the plan being cancelled just after they send you a cartridge, which could be done on the free tier. I don't like it in theory but it makes sense they would disable it.
[deleted]
I've always wondered why someone hasn't started a company making expensive but fixable printers with ink reservoirs that can be refilled from bottles. You could charge 10x more than what HP and co charge for the hardware, and sell replacement parts and repair services to sustain the business. Surely you could carve out a niche of consumers disgruntled with the current ink cartel and it would look good in the modern age by cutting down on people buying new throwaway printers when they run out of ink.
According to this[0] comment Epson does exactly that!
[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22083308
[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22083308
Nice. But I still dream of the day we make open source printer hardware and software with refillable ink and replaceable/repairable parts!
How do you get into a situation where you're automatically paying $5/mo for your printer and don't know about it?
Reminds me of some of Netgear's newer switches that don't let you access much of the configuration until you register it to a Netgear account...
https://kb.netgear.com/000061528/GS108Tv3-GS110TPv3-GS110TPP...
https://kb.netgear.com/000061528/GS108Tv3-GS110TPv3-GS110TPP...
I wonder how this is different from literally any other subscription service like Spotify and Netflix: Your subscription has expired, so the owner of the goods wants you to stop using his stuff.
Even when you buy HP cartridges, the printer can detect how old they are, and they arbitrarily stop printing well after a certain amount of time. A cartridge absolutely does not guarantee s certain number of printed pages
I just print my stuff at the office - bunch of massive enterprise printers there.
Home printers don't make sense to me on cost, time & scale.
Then again not all employers are cool with incidental personal use.
Home printers don't make sense to me on cost, time & scale.
Then again not all employers are cool with incidental personal use.
Some enterprise printers can be set up to keep a copy of every page they print (and scan), at least for a period of time. Bear that in mind if any of what you print is something you'd consider sensitive.
Printers at my work place are network only, and the server keeps copies of everything scanned and printed. Every user logs in to the printer with a 6 or 9 digit PIN and chooses which document to print or where to store the scanned file. You can encrypt the file and decrypt on the printer, I'm not sure if the printer returns the key to the server for later analysis.
>Printers at my work place are network only
Think you're misunderstanding OP. This applies even to keycard/pin printers.
Basically all those big fat enterprise printers have harddrives in them that capture prints. Really don't get why, but apparently that's a fairly universal thing in enterprise printers. As best as I can tell even IT dept isn't always aware of this so a lot of them get sold/disposed with that hdd in it....
Think you're misunderstanding OP. This applies even to keycard/pin printers.
Basically all those big fat enterprise printers have harddrives in them that capture prints. Really don't get why, but apparently that's a fairly universal thing in enterprise printers. As best as I can tell even IT dept isn't always aware of this so a lot of them get sold/disposed with that hdd in it....
> and the server keeps copies of everything scanned and printed.
The end result is the same, it's all logged and stored.
The end result is the same, it's all logged and stored.
Thanks. Yeah not too worried about it to be honest. They're more worried about me leaving so there is no way they'll pick a fight over trivial stuff
Why are people still using printers at all?
I cannot fathom any reason outside of art / photos why you would want to print a document when you can view it on just about every device available to you. When was the last time you were in a room without a screen? A room where nobody had a smartphone, tablet, laptop, or TV? Do you view Word documents in the shower?
It seems like from a financial and environmental perspective, printing out forms is exceedingly wasteful.
I cannot fathom any reason outside of art / photos why you would want to print a document when you can view it on just about every device available to you. When was the last time you were in a room without a screen? A room where nobody had a smartphone, tablet, laptop, or TV? Do you view Word documents in the shower?
It seems like from a financial and environmental perspective, printing out forms is exceedingly wasteful.
1) art/photos
2) sending letters
3) handing in forms to government services etc
4) paper is a lot more practical to just stick somewhere/hand around for whoever to use, e.g. checklists
5) making signs/labels for stuff
6) handing in homework
2) sending letters
3) handing in forms to government services etc
4) paper is a lot more practical to just stick somewhere/hand around for whoever to use, e.g. checklists
5) making signs/labels for stuff
6) handing in homework
I agree with all that though only the first option definitely needs color (inkjet) printing.
We have an inkjet because we bought it for photo/poster printing. Buying a second printer, just for documents, would be overkill.
I've intended to have a black laser and get colour printing at the store, but am waiting for the printer to die.
I've intended to have a black laser and get colour printing at the store, but am waiting for the printer to die.
Sure, but parent was only asking about "printers".
yeah i was trying to make a charitable re-interpretation of the parent
This model is perfectly good. However, the laws are still outdated with respect to it. Here are simple proposals:
- hp (or Apple) can sign you up for this, but then they cannot call it "buy" in the shop. Rent an iPhone (Android phone) or install a printer may be what it should be.
- they need to inform you about the price. In EU a shop cannot write prices without VAT. Install for X EUR + Y EUR per month is what should be on the sticker.
- finally, there is the antitrust. If somebody tries to replace Y with ads, this must be legally part of the price. Higher price for consumers is what makes a good reason to split a monopoly.
- hp (or Apple) can sign you up for this, but then they cannot call it "buy" in the shop. Rent an iPhone (Android phone) or install a printer may be what it should be.
- they need to inform you about the price. In EU a shop cannot write prices without VAT. Install for X EUR + Y EUR per month is what should be on the sticker.
- finally, there is the antitrust. If somebody tries to replace Y with ads, this must be legally part of the price. Higher price for consumers is what makes a good reason to split a monopoly.
Is there in fact an Apple program that amounts to renting? I'm only aware of the iPhone upgrade program, where you pay monthly and can get a new phone once a year after turning your old one in. But if you pay for two years, the phone is yours, outright.
I'm a buy-with-cash kind of guy, but the above isn't rental and shouldn't be described as such. It's a payment plan with some incentives designed to keep iPhone sales up.
I'm a buy-with-cash kind of guy, but the above isn't rental and shouldn't be described as such. It's a payment plan with some incentives designed to keep iPhone sales up.
You're not renting the printer, you actually buy it. The subscription rental service is for the cartridges, and you always have the option of buying regular non-rental cartridges instead of using the subscription.
Please, don't tell HP Inc employees that they are going to pass through another split.
That‘s about the time I switched to laser printers. Currently I equipped myself and my family with a Brother HL 3152CDW. I got it for around 160-180€. The included toners print 1-2k pages. A new toner does 2-2,5k and costs around 60€ per color (genuine Brother) or around 50-60€ for a 4-color-toner set from noname brands. We have the printer since maybe 3-4 years and had to buy 1 black toner. I think I got a noname cartridge for around 25€.
If you want a smaller device and save a little money, get a b/w laser printer for less than 100€.
If I need to print photos, I go to a store with instant printing kiosks. It takes a few minutes to print dozens of photos and it‘s cheap, around 0,20-0,30€ per print (10x15cm).
I hope laser printers will never become such a scam product like inkjet...