Weight Loss Is Harder Than Rocket Science(wsj.com)
wsj.com
Weight Loss Is Harder Than Rocket Science
https://www.wsj.com/articles/weight-loss-is-harder-than-rocket-science-11580396067
42 comments
Weight loss is hard because it requires deep lifestyle change and deep lifestyle change is most certainly harder than any science.
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I’d add that lifestyle change is hard(or not) because is subjective to oneself experience of life.
It's simple in theory: Eat less than you need.
But the problems that can arise are manifold.
I don't know if there really is a maximum of calories your body can use per day, but I read the number of 65000 kcal once.
This means, a "cheat day" or simply loosing control one day a week, can destroy all your progress.
A calorie delta that is too high can easily lead to such losses of control, especially if you are easily stressed.h
So you try to get a delta of around 500kcal a day, maybe 1000kcal if you can handle this. But how do you know what you're using a day? There are many methods to find out and they can be off more than 500kcal, so it could very well be that your actual delta is much higher or lower than you think. So you're either making really slow progress or can't keep it up for the months you'd need to.
But the problems that can arise are manifold.
I don't know if there really is a maximum of calories your body can use per day, but I read the number of 65000 kcal once.
This means, a "cheat day" or simply loosing control one day a week, can destroy all your progress.
A calorie delta that is too high can easily lead to such losses of control, especially if you are easily stressed.h
So you try to get a delta of around 500kcal a day, maybe 1000kcal if you can handle this. But how do you know what you're using a day? There are many methods to find out and they can be off more than 500kcal, so it could very well be that your actual delta is much higher or lower than you think. So you're either making really slow progress or can't keep it up for the months you'd need to.
I don't know where I read it but this to me is the crux of the whole situation:
"If you hate having to burn off those extra calories, don't put them in your body in the first place."
By having a rough idea of what burning off off (say) 300 Calories takes in physical exercise, and what the Calorie-content of your foods are, you'll find it easier think of what you're eating in terms of hard work. A sushi roll is roughly 200 Calories, or 30 minutes hard work.
The choice then becomes - "Would you rather have that sushi roll? Or would you rather have to work out strenuously for 30 minutes? Choose now!"
"If you hate having to burn off those extra calories, don't put them in your body in the first place."
By having a rough idea of what burning off off (say) 300 Calories takes in physical exercise, and what the Calorie-content of your foods are, you'll find it easier think of what you're eating in terms of hard work. A sushi roll is roughly 200 Calories, or 30 minutes hard work.
The choice then becomes - "Would you rather have that sushi roll? Or would you rather have to work out strenuously for 30 minutes? Choose now!"
If you are interested in a simple primer on the chemistry and biochemistry of weight loss, check out this episode of ABC (Australia) Catalyst:
https://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/where-does-fat-go/11015048
The overall balanced equation is quite simple, showing fat molecules convert to CO2 and H2O. It shows quite clearly that you have to breathe oxygen in and carbon dioxide out in order to lose weight. I guess this is why high intensity exercise or endurance exercise aid in weight loss - in both cases you are elevating your breathing while at the same time exhausting your muscle glycogen stores.
https://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/where-does-fat-go/11015048
The overall balanced equation is quite simple, showing fat molecules convert to CO2 and H2O. It shows quite clearly that you have to breathe oxygen in and carbon dioxide out in order to lose weight. I guess this is why high intensity exercise or endurance exercise aid in weight loss - in both cases you are elevating your breathing while at the same time exhausting your muscle glycogen stores.
If weight is proportional to volume and not area, then it should be a function of height cubed, not height squared. This is why I came up with CBMI -- the cubic body mass index. Just take your height in feet (expressed as a decimal, so that 5'6" = 5.5') and cube it. That's your ideal weight. Much simpler and much more forgiving than BMI.
Surprising it doesn't mention waist to height ratio which is more accurate to me. I had a normal bmi but I was clearly overweight using the waist to height ratio. Not perfect but better in my opinion than bmi http://www.bmi-calculator.net/waist-to-height-ratio-calculat...
How about just body fat percentage?
It is difficult/expensive to calculate accurately.
You can get a "Resting Metabolic Rate Test" that takes 15 minutes. That will tell you the base calories you need to maintain current body weight by measuring the amount of oxygen your body burns while breathing. I think I paid less than $100 for this.
You can also get a Dexta scan that tells you your body body composition, how much fat, how much muscle mass. I think I pay $70 every scan and get one a couple of times a year. You can use this data also to calculate estimated required calories, body composition, are you loosing fat/muscle and gives data to change diet accordingly.
You only need to be in a small 300 cal deficit to loose weight. If you want to maintain muscle mass and drop body fat it's better to be in the smallest deficit possible and this will also reduce hunger.
If you want to loose body weight quickly and maintain muscle that's hard! That does require a bigger calorie deficit by reducing food, and increasing activity (cardio) to burn more while getting macros exactly right to hold on to as much muscle as possible although you will loose muscle. Bodybuilders are experts at this, they pile on weight during the off season so they are in a calorie surplus so they can gain muscle then diet down to single digit body fat percentages trying to hold as much muscle as possible.
Everyone talks about loosing weight but you can not weigh much and be fat aka skinny fat and unfit. Alot of 'slim' people will fit in to this category unless they have an active lifestyle.
The modern normalized diet is terrible. It's carb / sugar heavy. There's nothing wrong with carbs you need them but people are eating far to many of them while not burning them and everything is sugar heavy which your body naturally wants to eat more of.
My girlfriend has mental health issues and over the past few years has become morbidly obese which causes bigger and bigger issues as I eat my veg, carbs, protein mainly whole foods. I weigh the quantities, look good, in great health medically etc. I eat well, 3500+cal a day as I burn it off with lifting weights and doing cardio.
On the other end she eats complete rubbish, sugary comfort foods, lots of fruit as it's good (high sugar), lots of full fat milk as it's good, lot's of olive oil as it's good for you, and now morbidly obese and still gaining, high cholesterol, deteriorating mental health yet somehow I'm the one with the eating issue as I watch what I eat as I eat mainly for performance, going to the gym after work most evenings isn't normal and shouldn't have to do it. She wants to loose weight but doesn't want to put in the work, she sees the stuff she's eating as normal, doesn't want to sacrifice them and sees going to the gym as abnormal. She's right the gym is abnormal in the sense it's replacing the active activity we used to do before sedate lifestyles but it's not abnormal to make your body exercise it in a way no longer doing sat at desks all day.
You can also get a Dexta scan that tells you your body body composition, how much fat, how much muscle mass. I think I pay $70 every scan and get one a couple of times a year. You can use this data also to calculate estimated required calories, body composition, are you loosing fat/muscle and gives data to change diet accordingly.
You only need to be in a small 300 cal deficit to loose weight. If you want to maintain muscle mass and drop body fat it's better to be in the smallest deficit possible and this will also reduce hunger.
If you want to loose body weight quickly and maintain muscle that's hard! That does require a bigger calorie deficit by reducing food, and increasing activity (cardio) to burn more while getting macros exactly right to hold on to as much muscle as possible although you will loose muscle. Bodybuilders are experts at this, they pile on weight during the off season so they are in a calorie surplus so they can gain muscle then diet down to single digit body fat percentages trying to hold as much muscle as possible.
Everyone talks about loosing weight but you can not weigh much and be fat aka skinny fat and unfit. Alot of 'slim' people will fit in to this category unless they have an active lifestyle.
The modern normalized diet is terrible. It's carb / sugar heavy. There's nothing wrong with carbs you need them but people are eating far to many of them while not burning them and everything is sugar heavy which your body naturally wants to eat more of.
My girlfriend has mental health issues and over the past few years has become morbidly obese which causes bigger and bigger issues as I eat my veg, carbs, protein mainly whole foods. I weigh the quantities, look good, in great health medically etc. I eat well, 3500+cal a day as I burn it off with lifting weights and doing cardio.
On the other end she eats complete rubbish, sugary comfort foods, lots of fruit as it's good (high sugar), lots of full fat milk as it's good, lot's of olive oil as it's good for you, and now morbidly obese and still gaining, high cholesterol, deteriorating mental health yet somehow I'm the one with the eating issue as I watch what I eat as I eat mainly for performance, going to the gym after work most evenings isn't normal and shouldn't have to do it. She wants to loose weight but doesn't want to put in the work, she sees the stuff she's eating as normal, doesn't want to sacrifice them and sees going to the gym as abnormal. She's right the gym is abnormal in the sense it's replacing the active activity we used to do before sedate lifestyles but it's not abnormal to make your body exercise it in a way no longer doing sat at desks all day.
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A preview of coming attractions in this thread:
- Weight loss isn't hard, just eat fewer calories than you burn.
- Keto will obviously make you lose weight!
- I lost N lbs by meditation and intermittent fasting!
- Being hungry sucks.
- Anybody can do it, this one trainer put on 100 lbs, and then took it all off again!
- Being fat is just another sign that you're lazy.
- It's sugar's fault! (Alternatively: It's artificial sweetener's fault!)
- A vegan diet will make you lose weight.
I'll get us started: Being in a caloric deficiency for weeks or months is one of the most miserable experiences you can have. Constant hunger, no energy, always hangry... Yeah. Being hungry sucks.
- Weight loss isn't hard, just eat fewer calories than you burn.
- Keto will obviously make you lose weight!
- I lost N lbs by meditation and intermittent fasting!
- Being hungry sucks.
- Anybody can do it, this one trainer put on 100 lbs, and then took it all off again!
- Being fat is just another sign that you're lazy.
- It's sugar's fault! (Alternatively: It's artificial sweetener's fault!)
- A vegan diet will make you lose weight.
I'll get us started: Being in a caloric deficiency for weeks or months is one of the most miserable experiences you can have. Constant hunger, no energy, always hangry... Yeah. Being hungry sucks.
Ok, I'll start too.
I've lost 10kg recently and it's true that the most important factor is calorie deficit. I've been doing keto for the most part, but even on my cheat days when I ate more carbs than I should I was still losing weight as long as I had a calorie deficit. I find keto easier for me because fat helps with satiety but if you get satiety with just low fat high carb more power to you.
And yes, no matter the diet, dropping sugar and sweeteners is some of the things that will help the most. Intermittent fasting does help a lot and working out helps cut hunger the most (and so does intermittent fasting after a while, I haven't had a morning breakfast in months and not feeling hungry until lunch).
I've lost 10kg recently and it's true that the most important factor is calorie deficit. I've been doing keto for the most part, but even on my cheat days when I ate more carbs than I should I was still losing weight as long as I had a calorie deficit. I find keto easier for me because fat helps with satiety but if you get satiety with just low fat high carb more power to you.
And yes, no matter the diet, dropping sugar and sweeteners is some of the things that will help the most. Intermittent fasting does help a lot and working out helps cut hunger the most (and so does intermittent fasting after a while, I haven't had a morning breakfast in months and not feeling hungry until lunch).
I also managed to lose about that much.
Wasn't as hard as I imagined it would be. Hardest part, by far, war not going somewhere I could see the other foods I used to eat. Basically, marketing works. Really well. So find ways to avoid it.
No, that isn't easy. Just I am at a weight I never thought I would be again. It is doable.
Wasn't as hard as I imagined it would be. Hardest part, by far, war not going somewhere I could see the other foods I used to eat. Basically, marketing works. Really well. So find ways to avoid it.
No, that isn't easy. Just I am at a weight I never thought I would be again. It is doable.
Yes, being in a caloric defecit (relative to your previous normal) is hard. Most lifestyle changes are. Anyone who tells you different is lying to you. But it doesn't need to be excruciating, and if you plan around the foods you like to eat you can even end up enjoying it after a while.
The simplest solution is to eat less calorically dense foods -- hunger is partially determined by the volume of food you eat. As an extreme example, 1kg of broccoli has 340 calories -- there's no way you could be physically hungry if you ate that quantity of food for each meal. You shouldn't just eat broccoli (of course) but it's a motivating example of how minor food choices (double your portion of fibrous vegetables, and halve your portion of starchy carbohydrates) can impact your overall diet. Not to mention that fibrous carbohydrates are more satiating than starchy carbohydrates (the latter usually make you more hungry).
Not to mention there are lots of ways to massively reduce the amount of calories in food you commonly eat (though this does require you to cook your own food).
Also, for the love of all that is holy -- drink more water. The vast majority of people are dehydrated (your urine should be almost entirely clear, not yellow) and misinterpret thirst for hunger. Water doesn't have any calories.
The simplest solution is to eat less calorically dense foods -- hunger is partially determined by the volume of food you eat. As an extreme example, 1kg of broccoli has 340 calories -- there's no way you could be physically hungry if you ate that quantity of food for each meal. You shouldn't just eat broccoli (of course) but it's a motivating example of how minor food choices (double your portion of fibrous vegetables, and halve your portion of starchy carbohydrates) can impact your overall diet. Not to mention that fibrous carbohydrates are more satiating than starchy carbohydrates (the latter usually make you more hungry).
Not to mention there are lots of ways to massively reduce the amount of calories in food you commonly eat (though this does require you to cook your own food).
Also, for the love of all that is holy -- drink more water. The vast majority of people are dehydrated (your urine should be almost entirely clear, not yellow) and misinterpret thirst for hunger. Water doesn't have any calories.
You didn't mention fasting (non-intermittent) so I'll leave this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIuj-oMN-Fk - "Dr. Jason Fung - 'Therapeutic Fasting - Solving the Two-Compartment Problem'"
I’ll contribute with another classic remark ”muscle weights more than fat, you should burn fat not lose weight”
Is this supposed to be controversial? It’s very easy for people to trick themselves by not accounting for that if all they’re tracking is weight. Either through losing muscle mass and thinking they’re losing fat, or more commonly through gaining muscle mass and thinking their exercise effort isn’t working.
It wasn’t meant to be controversial, It’s one of the few things that are very easy to prove right, I mentioned it as a frequent comment so that it would be predictable that someone would pick up on the title saying “weight loss is harder than” should be “burning fat is harder than...” assuming we are playing to predict picky comments.
Your last comment is why keto works quite well. It removes the insulin spikes and with it the energy troughs. The other reason I'm convinced keto works great is that it helps rebalance your microbiome. This is all from personal experience using Viome to measure effects however I wasnt using it for weight loss, that was just an (undesired for me) side effect. It should also be noted that a significant amount of weight loss from keto is actually water loss.
I don't think I'll ever need to read one of these threads again, now.
Me.
- Something is terrible wrong on a global scale. Because we and especially children didn't suddenly _all_ become lazy sedentary face stuffing slobs in the last 40 years.
- Something is terrible wrong on a global scale. Because we and especially children didn't suddenly _all_ become lazy sedentary face stuffing slobs in the last 40 years.
Weight loss might be hard, but it absolutely is not complicated. Perhaps the metabolic processes are, but it does really boil down to calories in/calories out, and absolutely no amount of contrivance can change that.
Life is also typically full of adversity and hardship, and managing weight is a hardship that all people share, regardless of their status. Perhaps “lazy” is a bit reductive, and everybody’s circumstance are different, but if somebody is overweight, the solution is simply to put in the effort that somebody who is not overweight puts in every day.
Life is also typically full of adversity and hardship, and managing weight is a hardship that all people share, regardless of their status. Perhaps “lazy” is a bit reductive, and everybody’s circumstance are different, but if somebody is overweight, the solution is simply to put in the effort that somebody who is not overweight puts in every day.
> Life is also typically full of adversity and hardship, and managing weight is a hardship that all people share, regardless of their status. Perhaps “lazy” is a bit reductive, and everybody’s circumstance are different, but if somebody is overweight, the solution is simply to put in the effort that somebody who is not overweight puts in every day.
“Effort” isn’t quite enough here: a huge factor is lifestyle related and many people have significant barriers which are hard to change: moving to a neighborhood which makes walking/biking/transit viable is often an expensive choice and almost always disruptive. Most of the 20th century was spent getting people to sit in cars, at desks, etc. and it’s not trivial to change that.
“Effort” isn’t quite enough here: a huge factor is lifestyle related and many people have significant barriers which are hard to change: moving to a neighborhood which makes walking/biking/transit viable is often an expensive choice and almost always disruptive. Most of the 20th century was spent getting people to sit in cars, at desks, etc. and it’s not trivial to change that.
> moving to a neighborhood which makes walking/biking/transit viable is often an expensive choice and almost always disruptive
Pretty weak excuse tbh. You don’t need a gym membership or a scenic park across the street to get enough exercise into your day. There are valid reasons to reserve judgement, but this isn’t one of them. Mental health arguably is. Poverty can be in a couple of ways. The cheapest food is often very unhealthy, and if you’re working for 16 hours a day then you likely have less opportunity to eat healthily (for example look at how ~60% of nurses are overweight, compared to ~40% of the general population). But for most cases, the key personality difference between an overweight person and a healthy weight person is laziness.
Pretty weak excuse tbh. You don’t need a gym membership or a scenic park across the street to get enough exercise into your day. There are valid reasons to reserve judgement, but this isn’t one of them. Mental health arguably is. Poverty can be in a couple of ways. The cheapest food is often very unhealthy, and if you’re working for 16 hours a day then you likely have less opportunity to eat healthily (for example look at how ~60% of nurses are overweight, compared to ~40% of the general population). But for most cases, the key personality difference between an overweight person and a healthy weight person is laziness.
Your comment is still reductive. I don't put in any effort; I get away with not paying much mind to my diet, and not working out. I'm not overweight despite consuming more sugar than I should at work, and mostly consisting on milks (cow, goat, soy, coconut) and oatmeal.
> I don't put in any effort
Yes you do. Taking the rest of your comment at face value, there’s no way that you chow down on unhealthy food at any time and in any quantity you please. Your examples of unhealthy food (milk and oatmeal) are also not very unhealthy. You might say “but I have no desire to eat unhealthy food”, and while that would most certainly not be true, you likely have less of an appetite for it than somebody who’s overweight. But if a person who over eats unhealthy food fixed their diet, their excessive appetite would return to normal after a while. That’s simply part of settling the debt for all their accumulated poor health decisions.
You also likely exercise more than a typical overweight person. I personally think it’s no effort at all to walk reasonably short distances to do things like run errands or go to a restaurant, but for somebody who lives a sedentary lifestyle, that could potentially be considered a unacceptably significant effort.
You may consider the effort to be trivial, but any person who’s not overweight does some combination or eating less calories/exercising more than any person who is overweight.
Yes you do. Taking the rest of your comment at face value, there’s no way that you chow down on unhealthy food at any time and in any quantity you please. Your examples of unhealthy food (milk and oatmeal) are also not very unhealthy. You might say “but I have no desire to eat unhealthy food”, and while that would most certainly not be true, you likely have less of an appetite for it than somebody who’s overweight. But if a person who over eats unhealthy food fixed their diet, their excessive appetite would return to normal after a while. That’s simply part of settling the debt for all their accumulated poor health decisions.
You also likely exercise more than a typical overweight person. I personally think it’s no effort at all to walk reasonably short distances to do things like run errands or go to a restaurant, but for somebody who lives a sedentary lifestyle, that could potentially be considered a unacceptably significant effort.
You may consider the effort to be trivial, but any person who’s not overweight does some combination or eating less calories/exercising more than any person who is overweight.
I do eat a lot of sweets (cookies, coffee cake, etc), probably one a day, and the milk I drink is often with some syrup; I work at a cafe.
Drinks are free so I'll drink a handful day to save money; sometimes with half-and-half or heavy cream.
I do get a bit of exercise making drinks, but otherwise I drive everywhere and don't walk, though I'd like to start. I imagine my weight is thanks to a combination of my height, metabolism, and not eating proper meals. (I cook with my girlfriend every now and again)
Drinks are free so I'll drink a handful day to save money; sometimes with half-and-half or heavy cream.
I do get a bit of exercise making drinks, but otherwise I drive everywhere and don't walk, though I'd like to start. I imagine my weight is thanks to a combination of my height, metabolism, and not eating proper meals. (I cook with my girlfriend every now and again)
One portion of sweets per day and some syrup in your coffee is far less than “a lot”. This is also the first time I’ve ever heard of a seated role in for working a cafe.
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That's not reddit, though...
I honestly wish that these kinds of remarks were limited to reddit. They’re not. Folks even here can get in ridiculous religious wars about weight management and dieting.
My own post is a bit cheeky to make fun of it, but if I can deter the flames a bit early on, I’ll take the potential hit.
EDIT: The real question is why is it such a religious war? I believe, perhaps incorrectly, that people put a lot of value on their weight. When that weight gets too high, anything that lowers that weight becomes inherently virtuous to the individual. Any nay-saying against that virtuous something becomes an attack against something that they value, something that increased their perception of themselves.
My own post is a bit cheeky to make fun of it, but if I can deter the flames a bit early on, I’ll take the potential hit.
EDIT: The real question is why is it such a religious war? I believe, perhaps incorrectly, that people put a lot of value on their weight. When that weight gets too high, anything that lowers that weight becomes inherently virtuous to the individual. Any nay-saying against that virtuous something becomes an attack against something that they value, something that increased their perception of themselves.
You're not really contributing to a better discussion environment with your attitude. How about you post rebuttals instead of a snide remark?
Because rebuttals will do nothing. From my past experience here offering rebuttals and considerate arguments, this definitely falls in the category of “rejecting that which doesn’t fit their world view”.
Someone convinced of Keto’s efficacy will not believe you when you say “I tried that, I gained weight”. Instead, you’re just not doing it right.
Someone convinced of the effacy of fasting won’t believe a claim of “I stayed the same weight”. Instead, you “must be lying”.
Someone convinced you’re just lazy will call it all excuses.
It’s just not worth the effort. Even here.
Someone convinced of Keto’s efficacy will not believe you when you say “I tried that, I gained weight”. Instead, you’re just not doing it right.
Someone convinced of the effacy of fasting won’t believe a claim of “I stayed the same weight”. Instead, you “must be lying”.
Someone convinced you’re just lazy will call it all excuses.
It’s just not worth the effort. Even here.
If you think you can't have a discussion here to the extent that you don't even want one anymore, then it's probably better if you stop posting. Being serious here.
Your post reads like "these are all the things recommended that I haven't tried but I'm going to shit on them anyways because I think I'll be hungry all the time". As your conclusion is way off the mark which invalidates the rest of your post. Even if you cut sugar and sweeteners and didn't lose weight you'd still notice a marked health improvement. Processed food western diet is absolutely terrible for your health.
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Mark me down for sugar's fault and that sugar should be thought of as an addiction for people who are obese.
"But rocket science is arguably simpler than weight loss, in the sense that it involves less unpredictability and variation. We control how rockets are made, and they don’t change their material composition over time."
The composition of rockets do change over time. Small fractures, corrosion, wear-and-tear from reuse, and manufacturing defects can have catastrophic consequences. The exposure of O-rings to extreme cold, leading to the Challenger disaster, is one example.
The composition of rockets do change over time. Small fractures, corrosion, wear-and-tear from reuse, and manufacturing defects can have catastrophic consequences. The exposure of O-rings to extreme cold, leading to the Challenger disaster, is one example.
A large number of our decisions are based on maximizing convenience while moderating cost. Foods, especially convenient foods, are engineered to sell and addict. It’s hard to maintain a healthy weight and body composition in a modern world without some effort. I also think that the body is particularly good at resisting change. It appears that if you’ve been overweight for a while, the difficultly of losing extra weight increases dramatically. And the toll on your health over time in terms of probability of disease is real.
I have never been particularly overweight, but I am aware of what I eat, and I do weigh myself on a regular basis to ensure I stay within a somewhat arbitrary range. The exercise part of the equation is easy for me to fulfill because I naturally enjoy exercise, though some injuries have tested my ability to stay active at times.
Preventing excessive weight gain is very important to long-term health.