CAF: C++ Actor Framework(github.com)
github.com
CAF: C++ Actor Framework
https://github.com/actor-framework/actor-framework
40 comments
I don't think it's true. Message passing definitely doesn't eliminate race conditions or deadlocks. Although, it's much easier to design code that has fewer race conditions.
It's possible that they mean "it avoids data races by design".
It's possible that they mean "it avoids data races by design".
> Message passing definitely doesn't eliminate race conditions or deadlocks.
You mention two very different problems.
1. Data race. It's a problem of mutation of some shared state. This problem is illuminated in the actor's approach by removing the shared state completely. Every actor has its own state and the only actor can change during handling incoming messages.
Even if we don't speak about actors and use message-passing within some other model (like CSP or Pub/Sub) then it hard to imagine how data race can happen in 1-to-1 interaction between entities in your application.
2. Deadlocks. There is no such thing as deadlock if actors use async message-passing. But there can be another problem: livelocks (https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Operating_System_Design/Concur...)
Or such thing as miss of a message. For example, actor A starts in state S1(A) and waits for message M1 to switch to state S2(A) where it will wait for M2. But actor B sends messages to A in reverse order: M2, then M1. If message M2 is not deferred by A, then M2 will be ignored by A in S1(A), then A switches to S2(A) and will wait for M2, but that message won't go to it.
You mention two very different problems.
1. Data race. It's a problem of mutation of some shared state. This problem is illuminated in the actor's approach by removing the shared state completely. Every actor has its own state and the only actor can change during handling incoming messages.
Even if we don't speak about actors and use message-passing within some other model (like CSP or Pub/Sub) then it hard to imagine how data race can happen in 1-to-1 interaction between entities in your application.
2. Deadlocks. There is no such thing as deadlock if actors use async message-passing. But there can be another problem: livelocks (https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Operating_System_Design/Concur...)
Or such thing as miss of a message. For example, actor A starts in state S1(A) and waits for message M1 to switch to state S2(A) where it will wait for M2. But actor B sends messages to A in reverse order: M2, then M1. If message M2 is not deferred by A, then M2 will be ignored by A in S1(A), then A switches to S2(A) and will wait for M2, but that message won't go to it.
exactly right exposition on both data-races and deadlocks in general for message-passing systems.
> Or such thing as miss of a message. For example, actor A starts in state S1(A) and waits for message M1 to switch to state S2(A) where it will wait for M2. But actor B sends messages to A in reverse order: M2, then M1. If message M2 is not deferred by A, then M2 will be ignored by A in S1(A), then A switches to S2(A) and will wait for M2, but that message won't go to it.
once message delivery is guaranteed to be in-order and lossless, then for the above scenario the issue is 'obviously' on the sender side. it can be easily solved with timers where 'A' expects to move from state-a to state-b in say 'n' seconds after startup etc.
> Or such thing as miss of a message. For example, actor A starts in state S1(A) and waits for message M1 to switch to state S2(A) where it will wait for M2. But actor B sends messages to A in reverse order: M2, then M1. If message M2 is not deferred by A, then M2 will be ignored by A in S1(A), then A switches to S2(A) and will wait for M2, but that message won't go to it.
once message delivery is guaranteed to be in-order and lossless, then for the above scenario the issue is 'obviously' on the sender side. it can be easily solved with timers where 'A' expects to move from state-a to state-b in say 'n' seconds after startup etc.
> once message delivery is guaranteed to be in-order and lossless, then for the above scenario the issue is 'obviously' on the sender side.
It depends on how the receiver handles incoming messages:
* there could be a scheme where a message is lost if it isn't handled in the current actor's state (or if it isn't deferred explicitly);
* there could be a scheme where a message that is not handled in the current state is deferred automatically (for example, Erlang's selective receive).
The problem I described exists for the first case but isn't actual for the second. However, schemes with selective receive can have their own drawbacks.
> it can be easily solved with timers where 'A' expects to move from state-a to state-b in say 'n' seconds after startup etc.
The main problem is: a developer should understand that problem and should implement that in code. But people make mistakes...
It depends on how the receiver handles incoming messages:
* there could be a scheme where a message is lost if it isn't handled in the current actor's state (or if it isn't deferred explicitly);
* there could be a scheme where a message that is not handled in the current state is deferred automatically (for example, Erlang's selective receive).
The problem I described exists for the first case but isn't actual for the second. However, schemes with selective receive can have their own drawbacks.
> it can be easily solved with timers where 'A' expects to move from state-a to state-b in say 'n' seconds after startup etc.
The main problem is: a developer should understand that problem and should implement that in code. But people make mistakes...
> * there could be a scheme where a message is lost if it isn't handled in the current actor's state (or if it isn't deferred explicitly);
that's weird :) how can a message be 'lost' from a mailbox without any explicit 'read-message-from-mailbox' call from the actor itself. now, an actor can choose to ignore messages in some states, but then again a suitable protocol needs to exist between the interacting parties on how to proceed.
> * there could be a scheme where a message that is not handled in the current state is deferred automatically (for example, Erlang's selective receive).
sure, but that was conscious decision on part of the actor. message was not 'lost' per-se
> The main problem is: a developer should understand that problem and should implement that in code. But people make mistakes...
oh most definitely yes. which is why having callflow diagrams is so ever useful. moreso when dealing with actor like environments...
that's weird :) how can a message be 'lost' from a mailbox without any explicit 'read-message-from-mailbox' call from the actor itself. now, an actor can choose to ignore messages in some states, but then again a suitable protocol needs to exist between the interacting parties on how to proceed.
> * there could be a scheme where a message that is not handled in the current state is deferred automatically (for example, Erlang's selective receive).
sure, but that was conscious decision on part of the actor. message was not 'lost' per-se
> The main problem is: a developer should understand that problem and should implement that in code. But people make mistakes...
oh most definitely yes. which is why having callflow diagrams is so ever useful. moreso when dealing with actor like environments...
> how can a message be 'lost' from a mailbox without any explicit 'read-message-from-mailbox' call from the actor itself.
It depends on the implementation of actors. If an actor is represented as a thread/fiber then an actor is responsible to call `receive` method from time to time. The only example of such an approach I know in the C++ world is Just::Thread Pro library. But even in that case, a message can be ignored if a user writes the wrong if-then chain (or `switch` statement).
But actors often implemented as an object with callbacks those are called by actor framework at the appropriate time. List of callbacks can differ from state to state.
It depends on the implementation of actors. If an actor is represented as a thread/fiber then an actor is responsible to call `receive` method from time to time. The only example of such an approach I know in the C++ world is Just::Thread Pro library. But even in that case, a message can be ignored if a user writes the wrong if-then chain (or `switch` statement).
But actors often implemented as an object with callbacks those are called by actor framework at the appropriate time. List of callbacks can differ from state to state.
ah, i see where you are coming from.
my notion of the whole thing was one where an actor is actually a pid (canonical or simulated), running a infinite loop with deque-process-wait on the msgq.
my notion of the whole thing was one where an actor is actually a pid (canonical or simulated), running a infinite loop with deque-process-wait on the msgq.
I understand, but it isn't enough. You have to have a selective receive primitive to write something like:
But if you have to write something like that:
for(;;) { // The main state.
receive(
when([](M1 msg1){ // Dive into another state.
while(some_condition) {
receive(when([](M2 msg2){...},
when([](M7 msg7){...},
...);
}
}),
when([](M3 msg3){...}),
when([](M5 msg5){...}),
...);
}
But if you have to write something like that:
for(;;) { // The main state.
auto * m = receive();
if(m->type == M1::msg_typeid) { // Dive into another state.
while(some_condition) {
auto * m2 = receive();
if(m2->type == M2::msg_typeid) {...}
else if(m2->type == M7::msg_typeid){...}
else if...
}
}
else if(m->type == M3::msg_typeid){...}
else if(m->type == M5::msg_typeid){...}
else if...
}
if you are tangling msgq-receive with its processing then sure.
however, imho, if you decouple the whole thing i.e. msgq-receive, and its processing via callbacks, then things are harder to get wrong. it might lead to either more elaborate state machine on the receiver side though, but then again imho that is not bad either.
however, imho, if you decouple the whole thing i.e. msgq-receive, and its processing via callbacks, then things are harder to get wrong. it might lead to either more elaborate state machine on the receiver side though, but then again imho that is not bad either.
Message passing without selective receive does eliminate deadlocks. See: Pony.
Single threaded service a sends a call request to service b, as a part of handling the request, service b requests back to service a. Deadlock.
You may not have control over service b.
You may not have control over service b.
huh :) if you have async-messages without any blocking semantics you are just fine.
My point is just that it's possible to construct one in any system that static analysis will be unable to detect or prevent. If you can construct it, it can also happen by accident.
> My point is just that it's possible to construct one in any system that static analysis will be unable to detect or prevent. If you can construct it, it can also happen by accident.
how ? can you please explain ? thanks !
how ? can you please explain ? thanks !
most people implement "block on API response", because that's way easier to reason about, sometimes, even without timeout. Reading through the thread, what I was misunderstanding is that this situation technically gets rolled into what called a "livelock". Fine, but from the higher-level API consumer's POV it's a deadlock.
with blocking semantics, you are sure to run into deadlocks in a single-threaded environment pretty easily a -> b -> c -> a.
grpc f.e. has support for blocking requests but it's 'solution' is to spawn a new thread for the request.
grpc f.e. has support for blocking requests but it's 'solution' is to spawn a new thread for the request.
You did not construct such a scenario for an async message-passing system.
Erlang makes similar promises around its implementation of the actor model; however, that's also combined with immutability, a lack of shared state (processes are isolated from one another), and preemptive multitasking, and I don't know how much of that CAF is able to reproduce.
Then again, avoid != eliminate. You can avoid hitting a deer on the road, but that doesn't mean you're able to eliminate the possibility of doing so.
Then again, avoid != eliminate. You can avoid hitting a deer on the road, but that doesn't mean you're able to eliminate the possibility of doing so.
Exactly! Data races are just a subset of issues!
Honestly, the source code of the examples looks rather complicated, like something that should better be generated from a nicer high-level language that has a native actor concept. (Obviously, the power of C++ templates does not come for free - you pay with noisy code and increased cognitive load.)
> Honestly, the source code of the examples looks rather complicated
There are several CAF alternatives with very different usages of C++ features:
* QP/C++: https://www.state-machine.com/qpcpp/
* SObjectizer: https://github.com/Stiffstream/sobjectizer
* actor-zeta: https://github.com/jinncrafters/actor-zeta
* rotor: https://github.com/basiliscos/cpp-rotor
At least two of them (QP/C++ and SObjectizer) are evolved and used for a longer time than CAF.
There are several CAF alternatives with very different usages of C++ features:
* QP/C++: https://www.state-machine.com/qpcpp/
* SObjectizer: https://github.com/Stiffstream/sobjectizer
* actor-zeta: https://github.com/jinncrafters/actor-zeta
* rotor: https://github.com/basiliscos/cpp-rotor
At least two of them (QP/C++ and SObjectizer) are evolved and used for a longer time than CAF.
Zeek uses CAF internally for data exchange over networks and workers [1]. It's not quite a "native actor concept", but it is a nice way to interact with the framework. I've used it before and its worked quite smoothly.
[1] https://docs.zeek.org/en/current/frameworks/broker.html
[1] https://docs.zeek.org/en/current/frameworks/broker.html
On the contrary, I worked with CAF and I found it one of the simpler frameworks that provide the actor model (simpler to use, that is). Later I learned about Erlang and I noticed a lot of similarities between CAF and message passing in Erlang.
Look at this https://github.com/actor-framework/actor-framework/blob/mast..., for example. There are multiple implementations of the same thing (calculator). But each implementation is simple enough to grasp without any prior knowledge of the framework.
And compilation times and memory requirements for it.
The activity around C++20 has gotten to the point where I’m skeptical of great libraries like this because I don’t want to learn something third-party when I might be able to use STL equivalents in just a few hundred days.
There are at least two corner cases in real-world usage of actors:
* traceability of an application (or part of the application). For example, you send a message and don't see any reaction to it. Why? Was this message lost (sent nowhere)? Was it ignored by the receiver (or received by a different actor)? Was it received by the right receiver but handled incorrectly? It could be hard to find an answer, especially if there are millions of actors in your app.
* testability of your actors. Writing a unit-test for an actor can be a more complex task than testing some C++ function or class.
I think a good actor framework should provide tools for simplification of such tasks. And I can't image that those topics will sometime be covered by a C++ standard.
* traceability of an application (or part of the application). For example, you send a message and don't see any reaction to it. Why? Was this message lost (sent nowhere)? Was it ignored by the receiver (or received by a different actor)? Was it received by the right receiver but handled incorrectly? It could be hard to find an answer, especially if there are millions of actors in your app.
* testability of your actors. Writing a unit-test for an actor can be a more complex task than testing some C++ function or class.
I think a good actor framework should provide tools for simplification of such tasks. And I can't image that those topics will sometime be covered by a C++ standard.
C++20 feature list has been fixed a few mobths ago and there's no actor framework involved afaik.
At best there will be in c++23 which means 2024 the time it trickles down to all relevant compilers and 2030 until you can use it in Debian stable.
That's also the time required by 32 successive 3-months javascript "zero to hero" bootcamps.
At best there will be in c++23 which means 2024 the time it trickles down to all relevant compilers and 2030 until you can use it in Debian stable.
That's also the time required by 32 successive 3-months javascript "zero to hero" bootcamps.
In the Docs:Overview [0], the compile and build instructions are not showing up for some reason.
[0] https://actor-framework.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Overview.ht...
[0] https://actor-framework.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Overview.ht...
If someone's got a nice actor library written in and for C, I'm all hears.
The actor pattern for ZeroMQ in C (or C++): http://czmq.zeromq.org/czmq4-0:zactor
A similar actor pattern is provided in the Python implementation of ZeroMQ Zyre: https://github.com/zeromq/pyre
A similar actor pattern is provided in the Python implementation of ZeroMQ Zyre: https://github.com/zeromq/pyre
I was bored so I added CAF to pkgsrc, which you can use to install CAF on NetBSD/Linux/macOS and a variety of other Unix-ey platforms that pkgsrc supports:
https://github.com/NetBSD/pkgsrc-wip/tree/master/actor-frame...
https://github.com/NetBSD/pkgsrc-wip/tree/master/actor-frame...
git clone https://github.com/NetBSD/pkgsrc --depth 1 ~/pkgsrc
git clone https://github.com/NetBSD/pkgsrc-wip --depth 1 ~/pkgsrc/wip
cd ~/pkgsrc/bootstrap
./bootstrap --unprivileged
cd ~/pkgsrc/wip/actor-model
~/pkg/bin/bmake install
~/pkg/sbin/pkg_info -L actor-model
Given the project is called "C++ Actor Framework", why did you name the package actor-model?
Just wanted to get the thingy into pkgsrc-wip earlier this afternoon before I had to leave (and before I got bored and ended-up not committing anything).
Also made a typo. I called it actor-model in the commit message and my post above, but its real name was actor-framework. Will probably find a better name for it later.
Also made a typo. I called it actor-model in the commit message and my post above, but its real name was actor-framework. Will probably find a better name for it later.
"Actor" architecture is supposed to enable high developer productivity but it's been a decade since the article so I wonder how it's working out? The most prominent project of which I am aware is FoundationDB.
Basically microservices over ip/dns are actors (maybe not pure actors like Carl Hewitt would insist - but close enough), so I think it's safe to say that the dominant programming model today is actors.
Having spent a bit of time in actor-land at the language level, I think the primary advantages of actors are:
1) making concurrency relatively easy to reason about (vs. say strict async/await, promises.. shudder, async/yield, whatever twisted does etc.).
2) more importantly, and most actor frameworks don't get this right, fault tolerance and isolated failure domains. If your actor system doesn't limit the blast radius of a failure, then it's missing one of the biggest reasons to go with actors.
Having spent a bit of time in actor-land at the language level, I think the primary advantages of actors are:
1) making concurrency relatively easy to reason about (vs. say strict async/await, promises.. shudder, async/yield, whatever twisted does etc.).
2) more importantly, and most actor frameworks don't get this right, fault tolerance and isolated failure domains. If your actor system doesn't limit the blast radius of a failure, then it's missing one of the biggest reasons to go with actors.
> it's been a decade since the article so I wonder how it's working out?
What article? The actor model dates back to 70s much has been written about its various implementations and incarnations since then.
If you don't treat it like a theoretical model of computation (like Hewitt does), then what's left is various largely unrelated architectures that employ message passing, with various levels of granularity.
I don't think any claim about higher developer productivity can be made without specifying what it's being compared to.
What article? The actor model dates back to 70s much has been written about its various implementations and incarnations since then.
If you don't treat it like a theoretical model of computation (like Hewitt does), then what's left is various largely unrelated architectures that employ message passing, with various levels of granularity.
I don't think any claim about higher developer productivity can be made without specifying what it's being compared to.
Also, FoundationDB doesn’t use a traditional actor model. A single thread runs all the actors. It’s much closer to coroutines than concurrent actors.
The actor model is at least 50 years old if not more, and it is found in all sorts of places in some form, which is unsurprising since it is a fundamental model for computation. So, for example, it is not hard to argue that SOA/Microservices are implementations of an Actor approach to services.
Sure, sorry, I meant the actor model in C++ specifically, according to the papers published by the authors of the library that is in this post.
How am I supposed to read this? It's obviously not "message passing eliminates race conditions", so perhaps it's intended to say something like "you need to design the components to avoid race conditions."