Airbnb to halt all marketing, most hiring as losses mount(theinformation.com)
theinformation.com
Airbnb to halt all marketing, most hiring as losses mount
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/airbnb-to-halt-all-marketing-most-hiring-as-losses-mount?pu=hackernewsju49op&utm_source=hackernews&utm_medium=unlock
123 comments
I hate using AirBnB. We used it once during an extended stay in Milan and the apartment was horribly dusty (I have allergies), the maid practically worthless and the "host" in no way matched the persona presented on the site (a pleasant looking woman vs the angry man we actually talked to).
But one thing I don't hear complained about enough: Having to share your home with AirBnB guests.
We live in a luxury condo in a major metro. A number of the owners in our building are absentee (probably not even in country) and they AirBnB. Nothing like paying a small fortune for a home and facilities and then having to share your pool with a bunch of obnoxious travelers who think they're in a fucking hotel.
We've tried to work with the company that manages our building but it's nearly impossible to stop, short of policing all of the residents. And it's illegal where we live! AirBnB doesn't give a shit. The offending owners (technically our neighbors) don't give a shit.
Honestly, I'd love to see them tank.
But one thing I don't hear complained about enough: Having to share your home with AirBnB guests.
We live in a luxury condo in a major metro. A number of the owners in our building are absentee (probably not even in country) and they AirBnB. Nothing like paying a small fortune for a home and facilities and then having to share your pool with a bunch of obnoxious travelers who think they're in a fucking hotel.
We've tried to work with the company that manages our building but it's nearly impossible to stop, short of policing all of the residents. And it's illegal where we live! AirBnB doesn't give a shit. The offending owners (technically our neighbors) don't give a shit.
Honestly, I'd love to see them tank.
I used to enjoy using airbnb, it was normally good value but slightly less convenient than a hotel because you’d have to arrange a meeting time to get keys.
Now, it seems to be mainly listing what are essentially unlicensed hotels with rooms spread across an area. Half the time I’ve used it recently I go to the address I was sent, only to realize I’ve missed a message telling me to go to a different address 15 blocks away to obtain the key from a lockbox.
Plus I’ve found they make it difficult to see a map view in some places.
Now I only use Airbnb for renting entire houses (eg for a ski trip). And even for that, I check booking.com first
Now, it seems to be mainly listing what are essentially unlicensed hotels with rooms spread across an area. Half the time I’ve used it recently I go to the address I was sent, only to realize I’ve missed a message telling me to go to a different address 15 blocks away to obtain the key from a lockbox.
Plus I’ve found they make it difficult to see a map view in some places.
Now I only use Airbnb for renting entire houses (eg for a ski trip). And even for that, I check booking.com first
> A number of the owners in our building are absentee (probably not even in country) and they AirBnB. Nothing like paying a small fortune for a home and facilities and then having to share your pool with a bunch of obnoxious travelers who think they're in a fucking hotel.
In many jurisdictions it’s illegal to operate residential properties as hotels for these and other reasons.
In many jurisdictions it’s illegal to operate residential properties as hotels for these and other reasons.
So what? If AirBnB or the property owners are not held accountable, the law doesn't matter.
The person you're replying said it was illegal there, too.
You could file a lawsuit no? I don't get this "nearly impossible to stop" thing. Granted, I don't live there and I share many of your misgivings about the terribleness of what Airbnb does to home prices etc. But it seems like people who are negatively effected tend to just shrug their shoulders while being shat on. If you want the owners to stop their illegal activity, then you have to make it painful for them economically.
>I don't get this "nearly impossible to stop" thing
I don't know the situation in the OP's country, but I wouldn't assume that filing a lawsuit is always an accessible option in jurisdictions outside the US.
Many countries make it very difficult for the general public to access the court system.
Where I live for example, it is extremely expensive to even begin a lawsuit (multiples of median monthly income), contingent legal fees (i.e. no win, no fee) arrangements are illegal (up to 7 years in prison), and class actions (i.e. multi-party litigation) are not permitted.
I don't know the situation in the OP's country, but I wouldn't assume that filing a lawsuit is always an accessible option in jurisdictions outside the US.
Many countries make it very difficult for the general public to access the court system.
Where I live for example, it is extremely expensive to even begin a lawsuit (multiples of median monthly income), contingent legal fees (i.e. no win, no fee) arrangements are illegal (up to 7 years in prison), and class actions (i.e. multi-party litigation) are not permitted.
In the US it's likewise a relatively expensive and time consuming process for what amounts to a nuisance in the pool and common areas. Without any ongoing enforcement mechanism or ability to show damages in excess of the price of a permanent AirBnB home - the AirBnB host is likely to simply pay any fines and carry on.
If it puts you at ease at all, rather than not being mentioned enough, that actually seems to be one of the most common complaints about Airbnb.
In my condo, AirBnB & general bad renters was enforced by HoA fines.
However, my HoA was fine-happy and generally useless othwrwise
However, my HoA was fine-happy and generally useless othwrwise
What's does the board of your building think? Bylaws of my condo do not allow airbnb.
I've been turned off of Airbnb due to the reviews being completely untrustworthy and hosts that put cameras up to 'make sure only the guests listed enter' - aka spying on guests. It's also really awkward when a listing just says "cameras in common areas". Well does that mean the living room? Dining room?
It's a shame airbnb has basically let professional real estate firms take over and completely trash it with listings that are nothing like what they show.
The last one I stayed at in Florida had a really bad ant problem and the place was filthy. They also had the AC set to turn off after 30 minutes. Keep in mind, it's in Florida and this was middle of summer.
While I'm ranting, why do they let basements or single floors of a shared house count as an 'entire place'? It's really weird to turn up and see you're actually in a basement in the owners house with their kids stomping around upstairs.
It's a shame airbnb has basically let professional real estate firms take over and completely trash it with listings that are nothing like what they show.
The last one I stayed at in Florida had a really bad ant problem and the place was filthy. They also had the AC set to turn off after 30 minutes. Keep in mind, it's in Florida and this was middle of summer.
While I'm ranting, why do they let basements or single floors of a shared house count as an 'entire place'? It's really weird to turn up and see you're actually in a basement in the owners house with their kids stomping around upstairs.
>While I'm ranting, why do they let basements or single floors of a shared house count as an 'entire place'? It's really weird to turn up and see you're actually in a basement in the owners house with their kids stomping around upstairs.
Agreed, this is very annoying. Basement apartments shouldn't show up under "entire place". They may be called basement apartments, but it's just a basement with a family upstairs and almost always constant, barely muffled noise. Some listings won't even disclose this until the very bottom of the description, or sometimes not at all, and then I have to dig through reviews to see if anyone has remarked that it's actually a basement.
I've stayed in a lot of Airbnbs, and every basement apartment has been awful in a lot of different ways. Some are even more expensive than full apartments despite same area and similar quality and size. But if you're on a tight budget, the cheapest option between a hostel and hotel room or apartment probably is a basement apartment, so I suppose they're not entirely useless.
Agreed, this is very annoying. Basement apartments shouldn't show up under "entire place". They may be called basement apartments, but it's just a basement with a family upstairs and almost always constant, barely muffled noise. Some listings won't even disclose this until the very bottom of the description, or sometimes not at all, and then I have to dig through reviews to see if anyone has remarked that it's actually a basement.
I've stayed in a lot of Airbnbs, and every basement apartment has been awful in a lot of different ways. Some are even more expensive than full apartments despite same area and similar quality and size. But if you're on a tight budget, the cheapest option between a hostel and hotel room or apartment probably is a basement apartment, so I suppose they're not entirely useless.
> While I'm ranting, why do they let basements or single floors of a shared house count as an 'entire place'? It's really weird to turn up and see you're actually in a basement in the owners house with their kids stomping around upstairs.
Would you describe a room in a hotel as an "entire place" or a "shared space"?
Would you describe a room in a hotel as an "entire place" or a "shared space"?
Hotels are different from apartments and homes. Everything in a hotel, is by default, 'entire place'. Apartments and homes can be 'shared' or 'entire place', with the latter meaning you have the whole place to yourself. If the lister is an apartment owner, it means you have the whole apartment. A basement is not an 'entire place', unless the lister is just and only just the basement owner, which in most jurisdictions is a technicality that would not pass.
Airbnb markets it as you have access to the entire property as in an entire house. If you’re traveling with a family this is ideal but really hard to filter out if they let all sorts of apartments show up as an entire house. I believe they have or had a filter for apartments but honestly their search is really hard to get exactly what you’re looking for. The other thing you see is “entire home” actually being a bungalow in someone’s backyard.
A hotel is like renting an entire apartment in a purpose-built building. A floor in a house is usually a retrofit with none of the soundproofing a typical hotel has.
I can't figure out why people keep saying these things. I've had dozens of stays at Airbnbs and they've (almost) all been wonderful. I strongly prefer them to hotels, find them more comfortable, and they're cheaper. Perhaps you all stay only in 5 star hotels? Or perhaps Airbnbs are dramatically different in different parts of the world. My experience literally could not be more different than the complaints that always show up here.
>Perhaps you all stay only in 5 star hotels?
this has gotta be the answer. I have the exact same experiences and feelings as you. I always look for basically the cheapest Airbnb and it ends up cheaper by 2-3x than local hotels and I've never had an uncomfortable stay. What I have had are completely normal rooms in working class homes - which is fine because who the hell cares about enjoying the hotel room when you travel!
this has gotta be the answer. I have the exact same experiences and feelings as you. I always look for basically the cheapest Airbnb and it ends up cheaper by 2-3x than local hotels and I've never had an uncomfortable stay. What I have had are completely normal rooms in working class homes - which is fine because who the hell cares about enjoying the hotel room when you travel!
> completely normal rooms in working class homes
My impression is that virtually all of the Airbnb complaints (both from guests and from neighbours) relate to "entire apartment" listings and/or the "private rooms" where the owner isn't on site.
There was once a time when most of the listings were for spare rooms in someone's house/flat, and to me that was kind of the whole point of Airbnb in the first place.
My impression is that virtually all of the Airbnb complaints (both from guests and from neighbours) relate to "entire apartment" listings and/or the "private rooms" where the owner isn't on site.
There was once a time when most of the listings were for spare rooms in someone's house/flat, and to me that was kind of the whole point of Airbnb in the first place.
Me and my girlfriend like to travel. Sometimes we just like to go away for the weekend (flights are cheap in the EU). Airbnb was a perfect choice. It was cheap, we can meet some locals in their house and get genuine tips only locals know.
Once we stayed in Malmö. The flat was a little bit messy, there were two little (under 10) children in the flat, so it was noisy. In the kitchen there where breadcrumbs everywhere. We still very much enjoyed our stay because the place was cozy our hosts were friendly. This was our "worst" experience when we stayed in a spare room.
In recent years we run into more and more listings where somebody renting out the entire house, each room to a separate individual. Sometimes it is indistinguishable from the former one before you arrive. If I staying at a "hostel" I want my bathroom and kitchen cleaned every day, but most likely I would just choose a real hostel.
In recent years we run into more and more listings where somebody renting out the entire house, each room to a separate individual. Sometimes it is indistinguishable from the former one before you arrive. If I staying at a "hostel" I want my bathroom and kitchen cleaned every day, but most likely I would just choose a real hostel.
Wow not a lot of love for AirBnB here. I've had the opposite experience, traveling with a baby or sometimes with my parents - I've found it a MUCH better experience to book an entire apartment for my holidays instead of individual hotel rooms. Works out a lot cheaper and gives us a far better travel experience with access to a kitchen, and a living room to relax in.
Aren’t there a bunch of hotel brands that provide this?
Yes, Residence/Homewood/Staybridge /Candlewood/etc.
The biggest plus AirBnB tends to give over hotels is having your own kitchen, and not having to rely on restaurants. In my experience many hotels are essentially just a room with a bed and some uncomfortable furniture; not a great place to be for a week IMHO.
Except that in Airbnb speak, „fully stocked kitchen“ usually means a half empty humidity caked jar of spice a previous guest left behind, two cracked plates and one fork, and hotplates.
Most places also never looked as advertised: they’re way noisier, dirtier, low quality, and as others have said you have to trek 5 blocks to get and return the key to an automated 7/11 mailbox.
And should you report it to Airbnb, be prepared to stay 45 minutes on the phone every time you call, starting over from scratch because the agents can’t read previous calls notes, to eventually be told that they’ve checked you out, refunded, and good luck finding another place to stay tonight.
I’ll take hotels any day. Fuck Airbnb.
Most places also never looked as advertised: they’re way noisier, dirtier, low quality, and as others have said you have to trek 5 blocks to get and return the key to an automated 7/11 mailbox.
And should you report it to Airbnb, be prepared to stay 45 minutes on the phone every time you call, starting over from scratch because the agents can’t read previous calls notes, to eventually be told that they’ve checked you out, refunded, and good luck finding another place to stay tonight.
I’ll take hotels any day. Fuck Airbnb.
I can't live a month or two in a hotel, it is just too expensive, while I have done it with AirBnB.
And the last time it was a great place, a bit better than a hotel.
And the last time it was a great place, a bit better than a hotel.
What? I always book AirBnB. For personal travel and business travel. It is always cheaper - like 100% of the time. And I get an entire apartment instead of a scrappy small hotel room.
Didn't AirBnB start as a sort of organized couch surfing? Same way Uber was for people who were taking the same trips to carpool.
AirBnB essentially just copied Couchsurfing and added money to it, pretending it was a new innovative "disruptive" idea (although the platform has since evolved a bit).
There's nothing wrong with that, of course. I just dislike all their Jobs-esque bullshit about it, pretending they single-handedly "innovated" the platform, which they didn't.
There's nothing wrong with that, of course. I just dislike all their Jobs-esque bullshit about it, pretending they single-handedly "innovated" the platform, which they didn't.
VRBO was around before AirBnB as well. In my opinion, one of the key things AirBnB did early to distinguish their service was handle the money.
In the days before AirBnB I rented an apartment in Paris for a week and had to wire half the money up front (in EUR, from the USA) and bring the other half in cash on arrival. The apartment was awesome, the host even better and I had no regrets. But it was a hassle, a bit risky, and certainly not something most of my friends and family would have been willing to do.
Getting in the middle of the money may not seem like much of an innovation but from my own experience it was probably one of the more complicated aspects of their platform. Dealing with currencies, escrow, risk management, settlement, chargebacks, etc. is a major undertaking. But it’s what made the model accessible to a lot more hosts and guests.
In the days before AirBnB I rented an apartment in Paris for a week and had to wire half the money up front (in EUR, from the USA) and bring the other half in cash on arrival. The apartment was awesome, the host even better and I had no regrets. But it was a hassle, a bit risky, and certainly not something most of my friends and family would have been willing to do.
Getting in the middle of the money may not seem like much of an innovation but from my own experience it was probably one of the more complicated aspects of their platform. Dealing with currencies, escrow, risk management, settlement, chargebacks, etc. is a major undertaking. But it’s what made the model accessible to a lot more hosts and guests.
Guests do fine on VRBO. Airbnb made it easier for hosts to run their "business" and to break the law, which increased supply for guests.
Also AirBnB innovated in break-ing Craigslist TOS to spam their users in early marketing.
Also AirBnB innovated in break-ing Craigslist TOS to spam their users in early marketing.
It would be good if they expanded their COVID-19 response to more trips booked in advance of the pandemic. I had something booked way in advance, starting April 15, and they still want me to be on the hook for a stay in a country no one can legally enter.
Airbnb's initial allowing for cancellations for any reasons was started on March 14th and lasts one month, currently ending on April 14th. Based on their existing communications to owners, I believe they will most likely move to a location dependent version of this policy as we move closer to that date.
Also, as an owner with two short-term rentals, it has been very challenging for us as well. We are getting cancellation requests for bookings into May and June that are outside of our 90 day cancellation window. Vrbo is pressuring us to allow those guests to cancel, but this isn't easy for people depending on that income. We have been trying to allow cancellations if travel isn't allowed (our units are in Hawaii so incoming travel isn't really allowed right now), but many of the travel bans currently in place are for 30 days.
Also, as an owner with two short-term rentals, it has been very challenging for us as well. We are getting cancellation requests for bookings into May and June that are outside of our 90 day cancellation window. Vrbo is pressuring us to allow those guests to cancel, but this isn't easy for people depending on that income. We have been trying to allow cancellations if travel isn't allowed (our units are in Hawaii so incoming travel isn't really allowed right now), but many of the travel bans currently in place are for 30 days.
Income loss for you is also income loss for the traveller who has to rebook the trip and pay double if they can't cancel. I have a booking I made in June in California. It was for my grandparents to stay at while they visited me (unfortunately my apartment is too small). Even though June is outside the travel ban time, I don't want two 80 year old people traveling during that time since we know Covid-19 will be active during that period.
If you don't refund guests I expect they'll file chargebacks with their payment processors and you'll lose, and with any luck VRBO will ban you for spreading pressuring people to spread pandemic
In fairness, I doubt Booking or any hotel would either.
Unless booking at a special rate, almost every hotel I've ever been at allows no-fee cancellations (typically up to 24 hours before). I typically stick to one or two hotel brands so maybe that's why?
I once accidentally entered the wrong checkout day when booking a hotel (one day too many); I immediately emailed and phoned them within minutes: they could not change the date, and had to pay one day extra.
Work was paying, but don't really like spending other people's money, and what a terrible service.
Work was paying, but don't really like spending other people's money, and what a terrible service.
What country? I've never seen that in the US unless you booked through an SEO scam third-party drop-ship web site.
Ireland, using the hotel's own website. Jurys Inn in Cork, in case you want to avoid it :-)
Pretty standard in all hotels I’ve stayed. That’s a major factor in me deciding to stick with hotels.
Definitely not common.
Every single major hotel brand (Hilton/Marriott/Hyatt/IHG/choice/Wyndham/Accor) and online travel agent (Priceline/Expedia) has waived cancellation penalties and non refundable deposits.
Delta waves them for recent reservations. Our April plans were done in late January and they still want $150/ticket to modify something done on points...
Really? Their own website[1] lists that any domestic or international flights in March, April or May are eligible for cancel or change without fees (it does appear that you can only cancel to get credit but it might be worth giving them a call to see if you can get an exception made). I say that because I have flights with them in early May that I'm increasingly thinking isn't going to happen and I've been assuming that I'll get to change it for free.
[1] https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisories/coronavirus-travel/ca...
[1] https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisories/coronavirus-travel/ca...
Yah... When you try to use the on line form, $150 today if it was booked in January or earlier. I've not had much success getting through on the phone yet. Still have a few weeks to sort it.
The communications I've received from IHG, Marriott, Hyatt, and Hilton have all indicated very flexible cancellation policies due to COVID through the end of April (24 hrs notice), even for new reservations made during this time period.
Can't speak to Booking or Hotels.com, I always book directly to not get hosed when changes are necessary.
Can't speak to Booking or Hotels.com, I always book directly to not get hosed when changes are necessary.
Booking did in February, no questions asked (although I did mention it was due to Corona fears). They had to call the hotel, but the hotel was fine with it, and so was Booking.
I heard of someone being successful by calling up the hotel a week before and saying they’ve been to Italy/Wuhan/wherever they have a high number of cases and asking to extend their stay because they need to self quarantine. Apparently that worked and the hotel canceled with full refund.
Url changed from https://www.theinformation.com/articles/airbnb-to-halt-all-m..., which was hard-paywalled, and which The Information has unlocked for HN readers. Thanks!
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See the full list of which companies are freezing hiring: https://candor.co/hiring-freezes
This oncoming economic recession is going to be deep and severe and we'll be living with the repercussions of shutting down the economy for many, many years. Lots of domino effects are in play.
Its as if running an economy on margins this thin is unsustainable. Maybe we should pay the government a little more to put some extra money aside so we can avoid this in the future.
Forget money. You can run at capacity so long as you don't have to run at capacity. This is global, savings cannot help you. Money is just deferred work, you can't eat it.
Money paid to government can be used to stockpile durable/nonperishable goods in advance of a crisis. Stuff you can eat
> Maybe we should pay the government a little more to put some extra money aside so we can avoid this in the future.
Forget a rainy day fund, we’re $23+ trillion in debt with $100+ trillion in future obligations.
Forget a rainy day fund, we’re $23+ trillion in debt with $100+ trillion in future obligations.
On the plus side, US revenue / GDP figures are also pretty large so that’s not too insane of an obligation. One day we’ll get back level, perhaps.
Also on the plus side: at this point money is construct and it doesn’t much matter how much debt you’re in, provided there is not too much money to be inflationary (not gonna happen in a depression) and there isn’t so little that liquidity dries up and there’s a panic to withdraw what’s there. So... queue the magic money machine for a bit until we can get this sorted.
Also on the plus side: at this point money is construct and it doesn’t much matter how much debt you’re in, provided there is not too much money to be inflationary (not gonna happen in a depression) and there isn’t so little that liquidity dries up and there’s a panic to withdraw what’s there. So... queue the magic money machine for a bit until we can get this sorted.
> US revenue / GDP figures are also pretty large
They just got a lot smaller, and tax revenues with them.
They just got a lot smaller, and tax revenues with them.
For a few years. It also costs the US next to nothing to borrow money at the moment. Yields on 10 and 30 year t notes are on the same order as long term inflation targets.
The US could probably lock in near-free loans for even longer terms if it wanted to, too. Austria sells 100-year bonds, which are currently yielding a mere 0.5%.
Are those numbers pre or post pandemic?
Post-pandemic. Current yield on the ten year t-note is 0.65%.
:/
Having a robust social safety net so that individuals and companies can be in the business of doing what they do and not planning for pandemics would arguably be a good things. There are a lot of inefficiencies when things aren't done at scale.
It could be, but there's also reason to believe it will recover very quickly.
In 2008, the economy 'woke up' and realized that it was based on a huge amount of false data. Imagine if every home in America was not worth the stated value. That's a lot.
If we can move past coronavirus and get most people back to work, most economic interests will believe there's no reason we can't get back to the 'good times' quickly. It will be a bull ride. Companies will want to expand rapidly and there will be common agreement about that.
So yes, there will be some dominos to pick up and some crazy problems with government debt - but if China is able to 'make stuff' most people are able to travel etc. then I feel it will be a 'v-shaped' recovery. Much quicker than 2008.
This all depends on if restaurants, hotels, airlines, factories are able to get back moving again.
In 2008, the economy 'woke up' and realized that it was based on a huge amount of false data. Imagine if every home in America was not worth the stated value. That's a lot.
If we can move past coronavirus and get most people back to work, most economic interests will believe there's no reason we can't get back to the 'good times' quickly. It will be a bull ride. Companies will want to expand rapidly and there will be common agreement about that.
So yes, there will be some dominos to pick up and some crazy problems with government debt - but if China is able to 'make stuff' most people are able to travel etc. then I feel it will be a 'v-shaped' recovery. Much quicker than 2008.
This all depends on if restaurants, hotels, airlines, factories are able to get back moving again.
It won’t be that easy because of two issues.
Demand is not going to bounce back. People will rightfully be apprehensive of increasing spending and will want to build up a personal cushion.
Tons of office workers who do little more than keep each other busy will be laid off and not find meaningful new work. This will cascade through their personal economies (spending patterns, defaulting on mortgages, etc).
Demand is not going to bounce back. People will rightfully be apprehensive of increasing spending and will want to build up a personal cushion.
Tons of office workers who do little more than keep each other busy will be laid off and not find meaningful new work. This will cascade through their personal economies (spending patterns, defaulting on mortgages, etc).
So those are both good points, but:
a) People were confident before, they will again. Business 'demand' will be back, and consumer appetite for travel, food will shoot back I think.
b) "Tons of office workers who do little more than keep each other busy" basically you're implying that companies know they have terrible inefficiencies, and used the coronavirus to dump their 'bad staff' and effectively won't re-hire. I'm not so sure companies are very good at determining who's crap and who's not nor are they good at fixing their processes. They will start hiring, thinking they're hiring 'better' but really they're just hiring back the same bag of workers.
Before the coronavirus, unemployment was crazy low. Historically. The Fed actually was going to raise rates but noticed people coming back into the economy as they had stopped looking for jobs previously. Companies were literally starting to train people again (!) they were so desperate.
I think we're going to get back to it fairly quickly.
My prediction is several months of funny money zany economy, during which time we edge back to work. The coronavirus will hang over everything for 18 months and still kill a lot of people and keep doctors buys, but the economy will start moving. In 2 years we are in full recovery, almost back to previous employment levels. Stocks are not back yet but who cares.
There will be a long term reckoning with the sizeable debt and garbage on the Fed's balance sheet but that won't stop the underlying economy from moving.
The thing I fear the most is a huge second wave, particularly in poorer countries. So far they have been spared.
a) People were confident before, they will again. Business 'demand' will be back, and consumer appetite for travel, food will shoot back I think.
b) "Tons of office workers who do little more than keep each other busy" basically you're implying that companies know they have terrible inefficiencies, and used the coronavirus to dump their 'bad staff' and effectively won't re-hire. I'm not so sure companies are very good at determining who's crap and who's not nor are they good at fixing their processes. They will start hiring, thinking they're hiring 'better' but really they're just hiring back the same bag of workers.
Before the coronavirus, unemployment was crazy low. Historically. The Fed actually was going to raise rates but noticed people coming back into the economy as they had stopped looking for jobs previously. Companies were literally starting to train people again (!) they were so desperate.
I think we're going to get back to it fairly quickly.
My prediction is several months of funny money zany economy, during which time we edge back to work. The coronavirus will hang over everything for 18 months and still kill a lot of people and keep doctors buys, but the economy will start moving. In 2 years we are in full recovery, almost back to previous employment levels. Stocks are not back yet but who cares.
There will be a long term reckoning with the sizeable debt and garbage on the Fed's balance sheet but that won't stop the underlying economy from moving.
The thing I fear the most is a huge second wave, particularly in poorer countries. So far they have been spared.
> People will rightfully be apprehensive of increasing spending and will want to build up a personal cushion.
For the majority, that's never happened before a probably won't happen ever.
For the majority, that's never happened before a probably won't happen ever.
For better or worse I believe short-term vacation rental owners will have access to up to $10,000 emergency cash that can be forgiven if used for mortgage payments during the disaster. I don't know the specifics, so there may be details I'm unaware of.
Is there a specific program you’re referring to? Is this the advance you can get on an SBA Economic Injury Disaster Loan?
Yes. AFAIK when a small businesses applies for a loan they will be eligible for up to $10,000 in an emergency grant that would be given in three days or less from the application being received.
Is running an illegal hotel a small business under this program?
Airbnb is a cool website to connect renters and letters but I wonder if they really need 7,000 people to do that?
@aaronbrethorst I think this post was caught in some sort of spam filter. Might want to post it again (or somehow contact mod?). I asked about it over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22707640
Edit: Looks like @dang has replied and un-blocked it: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=22708065&goto=item%3Fi...
Edit: Looks like @dang has replied and un-blocked it: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=22708065&goto=item%3Fi...
That would suck. Airbnb is great if you need housing in a weird location with no hotels (e.g. walking distance from something in Santa Clara), it's great for extra privacy (e.g. getting a TH in a quiet area in Europe away from both your loud hotel-mates and the loud tourists outside), it's great when you just want a bed on the cheap (everywhere; why pay for a hotel and its overhead when I need a place to store a backpack, shower and crash 8 hours a day). It's also great for weird places if that's your thing (I love it when they have a dog you can play with; sometimes there's house cooked meals; I actually once stayed in a house where the listing explicitly called out that a cat will likely come to your room and go into the bed :)). Oh yeah and places with assigned parking with no obnoxious valet system and parking charges are great everywhere.
The only inconvenience is usually the key hand-off, but private places usually have lock boxes these days, and shared ones have people living there.
The secret is never staying in airbnb-s that look like they are run like a hotel.
The only inconvenience is usually the key hand-off, but private places usually have lock boxes these days, and shared ones have people living there.
The secret is never staying in airbnb-s that look like they are run like a hotel.
As a part-time host the worst part about AirBnB handling of this is the full refunds to all guests. They have made it very clear we are in a completely one-sided relationship, and I can't be alone in my reaction to this.
There are more guests than hosts, and guests think that's the best parts. If your hotel is a legal business, you can get a bailout from the government.
What a really amazing turn-around from a few months ago. AirBnB was lauded as one of the few unicorns that were actually profitable and doing a good job justifying their valuation. With that said, they were a bad faith actor in many cities and caused rents to go up significantly [1], so I'm not sad they're taking it on the chin.
[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/garybarker/2020/02/21/the-airbn...
[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/garybarker/2020/02/21/the-airbn...
Many? Can you name a city that they didn't exploit regulations to get an edge?
They just marched in and started setting up illegal mini-hotels. When this blows up I'd love to know how that came to pass. Did every mayor in every big city really just decide not to act? There has to have been carrots and sticks here.
They just marched in and started setting up illegal mini-hotels. When this blows up I'd love to know how that came to pass. Did every mayor in every big city really just decide not to act? There has to have been carrots and sticks here.
To be fair, the crisis directly impacts their business.
This is like saying "Apple was lauded as the best company last week. But a meteor hitting earth today completely wipe out human and apple. What a really amazing turnaround"
When we laud a company, it, of course, doesn't include an extraordinary pandemic.
This is like saying "Apple was lauded as the best company last week. But a meteor hitting earth today completely wipe out human and apple. What a really amazing turnaround"
When we laud a company, it, of course, doesn't include an extraordinary pandemic.
This is unfortunate for the folks at AirBNB. As someone who specializes in front end, I've admired their user interface and it is clear they have talented people.
I'm not particularly impressed with their UX though. Stupid things like a filter to only show places that allow smoking, but no option to only show places that don't. As a non-smoker, it's far from pleasant to stay somewhere that's covered in tar. Same with pets. If you have allergies, you might prefer not to count on the place being cleaned well enough. I've reported this shortcoming years ago, but nothing has changed since.
That sort of decision (absence of filter for non-smoking listings) would be owned more by the Product org than visual designers or engineers. It's an appreciable criticism, but I don't think you can blame the people developing the interaction patterns for that.
I see the continuous improvement in the frontend as well, but when I'm looking for a place to rent, trust issues are my #1 problem, not the usability of the UI.
There are lots of properties with 0 reviews, and I see that multiple properties are managed probably by the same management company. It's just a sad situation when a nice owner of a nice apartment hires a bad management company, and AirBnB can't solve this situation, as I would love to stay in that place, but I'm scared of the hidden problems.
There are lots of properties with 0 reviews, and I see that multiple properties are managed probably by the same management company. It's just a sad situation when a nice owner of a nice apartment hires a bad management company, and AirBnB can't solve this situation, as I would love to stay in that place, but I'm scared of the hidden problems.
AirBnb uses a lot of dark patterns. The price you see on the UI can be 50% lower, because cleaning fees and other taxes add up very fast. You can't even compare two listing and get an Apple to Apple comparison.
Their customer support is hopeless, I've lost money on two stays where I wouldn't get a refund because the listing was inaccurate (smelly and bad hygeine).
They have to learn from Amazon. I know Amazon has terrible practices for it's workers but as a customer, I can't think of any online company that comes as close to their customer obsession. I can buy anything with prime label, its delivered quickly and I can return it if I am not happy for any reason.
This is what I want from AirBnB. A very generous refund policy, and transparency in its listing + pricing.
Their customer support is hopeless, I've lost money on two stays where I wouldn't get a refund because the listing was inaccurate (smelly and bad hygeine).
They have to learn from Amazon. I know Amazon has terrible practices for it's workers but as a customer, I can't think of any online company that comes as close to their customer obsession. I can buy anything with prime label, its delivered quickly and I can return it if I am not happy for any reason.
This is what I want from AirBnB. A very generous refund policy, and transparency in its listing + pricing.
> AirBnb uses a lot of dark patterns. The price you see on the UI can be 50% lower, because cleaning fees and other taxes add up very fast. You can't even compare two listing and get an Apple to Apple comparison.
That's kinda normal even for the various hotel booking sites/chains. They almost universally display the average pre-tax/fees price per night. The issue is that taxes and resort fees (which are in of themself very, very bullshitty) frequently make up a meaningful portion of the total cost (double digit percentages) so you still get sticker shock when you click through and get to the checkout screen.
That's kinda normal even for the various hotel booking sites/chains. They almost universally display the average pre-tax/fees price per night. The issue is that taxes and resort fees (which are in of themself very, very bullshitty) frequently make up a meaningful portion of the total cost (double digit percentages) so you still get sticker shock when you click through and get to the checkout screen.
Most hotels don't have "fees" piled on. A few scammy places have mandatory amenity/resort fees not in the price. None have "cleaning fees".
Taxes are additional but not vendor specific.
Taxes are additional but not vendor specific.
> A few scammy places have mandatory amenity/resort fees not in the price.
I'd argue that most hotels in major metro areas now have resort fees.
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But yes I do agree that hotels don't have cleaning fees nor service charges.
I'd argue that most hotels in major metro areas now have resort fees.
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But yes I do agree that hotels don't have cleaning fees nor service charges.
This is probably country-dependant. I’m from Australia and the prices shown are the final price, with everything included, because businesses here are legally required to do so.
Airbnb would be every bit as successful with a Craigslist or Amazon interface, while saving millions in front-end salaries.
Millions to create that front-end?? Oh man please someone hire me I will only charge half that much. We are too spoiled.
It's a website with pictures of the inside of a house, a calendar and a payment system.
Airbnb had Nicholas Gallagher (creator of react-native-for-web, now at Facebook), Leland Richardson (Enzyme, Lottie, now at Google), Jordan Harband (Enzyme). Pretty talented folks. Airbnb was also an early adopter of graphql and was doing some very interesting stuff with it. It must have been a priviledge to work there.
Sounds cool but not essential to the business. VRBO site is just as good without then.
I have tried using Airbnb for accommodations in the last two years and always found them to be considerably expensive than a decent hotel. So never used it. I am beginning to think Airbnb could be just for a niche set of users.
I’ll take 4 boxes of Trump cereal and 3 boxes of Biden cereal, please.
The audience here is too young for that.
It was worth it! Though, if the HN crowd doesn't remember that story, I'm not sure anyone would.
AirBnb forces you to agree permanently to automatic withdrawals If you ever book using PayPal. Yesterday I noticed they had randomly withdrawn over $500 from my PayPal account over the past two weeks. I haven’t booked a stay with AirBnb for months, and their support refuses to acknowledge that it happened and doesn’t answer any questions. How convenient that this “mistake” happened just as they are running out of money. I wonder how many other people have experienced this “mistake” from AirBnb recently.
If I lived in an apartment building and for whatever reason couldn't take a videoconference in my home, I'd be interested in borrowing a neighbor's clean and quiet living room for the duration of the meeting. A micro-Airbnb or a nano-WeWork. With proper precautions, this could probably be done without risking infection.
Isn't this Peer Space?
I'm not familiar with that one, but I just heard on the radio about something called Covid Care, which is more what I had in mind. Of course you wouldn't want to encourage people to be walking around knocking on doors asking for random things right now. Online makes more sense. So that might be an opportunity for an online but only super-local forum for things like help taking a meeting because your kids are bouncing off the walls.
Maybe that's Nextdoor or Craigslist. But those aren't sufficiently local to reach only the 100 or so people who live in your apartment building.
Judging from the downvotes, this isn't a need that resonates with many people. But it does seem that this new situation would be a little more tolerable if people actually could communicate with the person who lives down the hall. Yet right now it's not safe to introduce yourself (at least I wouldn't open the door if someone knocked; I'd just talk through the window, which wouldn't make those introductions very comfortable).
Edit: looked up Peerspace. That's more formal. This is more like "anyone mind if I do a videoconference in your living room for 30 minutes? My kids are doing their schoolwork and we don't have a place to move them" and broadcasting it to just the couple hundred people who live in your building. Same idea but residential for WFH rather than B2B.
Maybe that's Nextdoor or Craigslist. But those aren't sufficiently local to reach only the 100 or so people who live in your apartment building.
Judging from the downvotes, this isn't a need that resonates with many people. But it does seem that this new situation would be a little more tolerable if people actually could communicate with the person who lives down the hall. Yet right now it's not safe to introduce yourself (at least I wouldn't open the door if someone knocked; I'd just talk through the window, which wouldn't make those introductions very comfortable).
Edit: looked up Peerspace. That's more formal. This is more like "anyone mind if I do a videoconference in your living room for 30 minutes? My kids are doing their schoolwork and we don't have a place to move them" and broadcasting it to just the couple hundred people who live in your building. Same idea but residential for WFH rather than B2B.
They just laid off most of workforce
I'm sure they were already in a tight situation financially and this is the nail in the coffin. Personally, I'd be happy to see them go. Seems like an experiment that isn't worth continuing to me.