Life Without Children(medium.com)
medium.com
Life Without Children
https://medium.com/@sanwali/life-without-children-efde0d434252
47 comments
This. It baffles me how people seem to think the world is just getting worse and worse. The person mentions school pressure, only a few centuries ago in the western world many children were working in factories!
What annoys me even more is thinking that because the world is the best it has ever been that there are no more problems to solve and that we should be content. You may not believe this personally, but I see this argument a lot, especially from people like Steven Pinker, who then seem to avoid the issues laid out by the other child comment, like stagnating wages and corporate profit.
Problems doesn't really exist. They are an abstraction that results from an individual analyzing what they perceive to be a mess. When someone proposes a problem, they really only reveal things about themselves and their thoughts than some "truth" about the nature of the world. There are no problems in nature. Without analysis and judgement, things just are.
You claiming that stagnating wages and corporate profit are problems is no more valid than a business owner/builder complaining about rising wages and dropping corporate profits. Both are equally valid depending on whose shoes you're in.
You can also be in either person's shoes and arrive at a different analysis and perceive different problems depending on who you are as a person and how you see the world.
You claiming that stagnating wages and corporate profit are problems is no more valid than a business owner/builder complaining about rising wages and dropping corporate profits. Both are equally valid depending on whose shoes you're in.
You can also be in either person's shoes and arrive at a different analysis and perceive different problems depending on who you are as a person and how you see the world.
Forget crime, sickness, and the like. Let's look at stagnating wages [0] in the face of spiraling education, healthcare, and housing costs; anthropogenic climate change (which even the oil companies have known about since 1977) [1]; and the continuing trend of corporations being allowed to socialize losses while privatizing profits. Having children is also one of the worst things an individual can do in terms of carbon footprint. [2]
Children are expensive, even in the best case. I don't have a source for this one offhand, but, I seem to recall that the median cost of day care in the Bay Area today is around $2k/month, which is a significant sum even for someone on a software engineer's salary. [3] As the article mentioned, having a special needs child can absolutely annihilate a family's finances.
My GF and I have been together long enough to have this discussion, and we decided against children. We'd be jeopardizing both our retirements, bringing a new life into a world that's looking worse and worse by the day, and adding to the problem, all at once.
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[0]: Yes, yes. "Total compensation" has gone up, but mostly driven by health insurance costs. I'm talking about money in peoples' pockets. If you bring this up, you're essentially making my point for me.
[1]: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-...
[2]: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/07/best-way-reduce-your...
[3]: And, it's not going to go down in real terms, either. Childcare suffers terribly from Baumol's cost disease: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol%27s_cost_disease
Children are expensive, even in the best case. I don't have a source for this one offhand, but, I seem to recall that the median cost of day care in the Bay Area today is around $2k/month, which is a significant sum even for someone on a software engineer's salary. [3] As the article mentioned, having a special needs child can absolutely annihilate a family's finances.
My GF and I have been together long enough to have this discussion, and we decided against children. We'd be jeopardizing both our retirements, bringing a new life into a world that's looking worse and worse by the day, and adding to the problem, all at once.
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[0]: Yes, yes. "Total compensation" has gone up, but mostly driven by health insurance costs. I'm talking about money in peoples' pockets. If you bring this up, you're essentially making my point for me.
[1]: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-...
[2]: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/07/best-way-reduce-your...
[3]: And, it's not going to go down in real terms, either. Childcare suffers terribly from Baumol's cost disease: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol%27s_cost_disease
Let's look at stagnating wages [0]
When they stagnate to the point that I need to send Johnny to the coal mines (it's amazing the tight spots he can squeeze into) to make up the difference, get back to me. That is, if we don't all die from lung disease from this "London fog".
IOW, yeah, there's always something to make it look like this is the worst it has ever been. But it isn't a tough argument to say that it is no less "a great world to be raising kids right now" than it has been any other time.
When they stagnate to the point that I need to send Johnny to the coal mines (it's amazing the tight spots he can squeeze into) to make up the difference, get back to me. That is, if we don't all die from lung disease from this "London fog".
IOW, yeah, there's always something to make it look like this is the worst it has ever been. But it isn't a tough argument to say that it is no less "a great world to be raising kids right now" than it has been any other time.
Take those stagnating wages and compare them to what the cost of higher education would be in ~20 years if it increases at the same rate as it did the past 20 years. I'd be fitting Johnny for miner's helmet as soon as it was legal.
We have two kids, my partner is a stay at home parent (their choice), and I earn enough on a single income for our family to enjoy a reasonably high quality of life in a low cost of living locale. You’re absolutely right that kids are expensive. They are a choice, and to each their own.
Agreed, there are serious problems to solve (healthcare, income and wealth inequality, clean energy, electric mobility, justice and drug law reform). I hope my children take my lead in understanding why their role will be to continue the fight when I’m no longer able. “Apathy is the glove into which evil slips it’s hand.”
We borrow the world from our kids, and we should act accordingly. I’m planting trees whose shade I know I’ll never sit in.
Agreed, there are serious problems to solve (healthcare, income and wealth inequality, clean energy, electric mobility, justice and drug law reform). I hope my children take my lead in understanding why their role will be to continue the fight when I’m no longer able. “Apathy is the glove into which evil slips it’s hand.”
We borrow the world from our kids, and we should act accordingly. I’m planting trees whose shade I know I’ll never sit in.
I don't think your choice is wrong. I'm saying we made the choice that's right for us. If we're lucky, she and I both have at most about 60 years left on this earth. Any kids we would have today could possibly be alive 100 years from now. With the trajectory we're on with climate change, inequality, global instability, etc., we just didn't think it was a responsible choice for us to procreate.
You and I may know we're borrowing the Earth from future generations, but most humans on the planet aren't that conscious of the fact.
You and I may know we're borrowing the Earth from future generations, but most humans on the planet aren't that conscious of the fact.
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> We'd be jeopardizing both our retirements
FWIW, other people made huge sacrifices so that you could enjoy the gift of life. You might want to consider paying that gift forward and not keep it all for yourself.
FWIW, other people made huge sacrifices so that you could enjoy the gift of life. You might want to consider paying that gift forward and not keep it all for yourself.
My brother has kids. My girlfriend's brother may have kids in the future. We have plenty of ways to pay it forward. Meanwhile, my parents are already retired. I'd like to retire as well, someday.
FWIW, the amount of paying it forward you'll do for your own kids is probably 2 orders of magnitude more than what you could ever put into your nieces and nephews.
Also, I get that you probably think I'm just some asshole on the internet, but we're talking about whether human beings—your kids, no less!—get to exist. This is kinda important.
Also, I get that you probably think I'm just some asshole on the internet, but we're talking about whether human beings—your kids, no less!—get to exist. This is kinda important.
This article sits weird with me. I am not having kids, nor is my partner. We are both medically unable to do so. I never really wanted to have kids, however this article is full of cons and almost zero pros to having a kid, something OP seems to have not even thought of.
Are kids a massive responsibility? Yes. Can they be a burden? Yes. Can they also bring parents an immense amount of joy, happiness, pride and adjacently a sense of accomplishment? Yes. One of my favorite memories as a kid was going to Disney World with my parents, and seeing them enjoy mine and my brothers reactions to something they both enjoyed. That gave them so much joy.
I won't judge people for choosing to have kids or not. But this whole childfree/look at me and all my money & less responsibility attitude is lame.
Are kids a massive responsibility? Yes. Can they be a burden? Yes. Can they also bring parents an immense amount of joy, happiness, pride and adjacently a sense of accomplishment? Yes. One of my favorite memories as a kid was going to Disney World with my parents, and seeing them enjoy mine and my brothers reactions to something they both enjoyed. That gave them so much joy.
I won't judge people for choosing to have kids or not. But this whole childfree/look at me and all my money & less responsibility attitude is lame.
It's the reason I quit hanging out with the "child-free" folk at a major software company (they even had an internal distribution list). For many it seemed, their whole identity seemed wrapped up in not having kids, and dinner conversations turned into "can you believe parents?" and conspicuous consumption because you're not spending it on kids.
I like kids well enough, and though they stress her after a while, so does my wife. We just don't feel the need of any of our own. And that's what it boils down to. You think you're going to talk your spouse down when they have Baby Fever because the economics don't work out? Because you value "your freedom"? Just get the divorce over with now, or get used to the idea of kids. You needed to start working on being less of a selfish prick anyway.
I like kids well enough, and though they stress her after a while, so does my wife. We just don't feel the need of any of our own. And that's what it boils down to. You think you're going to talk your spouse down when they have Baby Fever because the economics don't work out? Because you value "your freedom"? Just get the divorce over with now, or get used to the idea of kids. You needed to start working on being less of a selfish prick anyway.
This. I am in a similar boat to you in regards to having kids (minus the medical aspect, as far as i am aware at the moment, at least), and I absolutely don’t get the whole ultra-childfree rhetoric on the internet that borderlines on hating children and, very often, crosses into it.
It feels like those people cannot justify their decision to not have children without either painting them as the devil or painting the people who choose to have children as some brainlets.
It feels like those people cannot justify their decision to not have children without either painting them as the devil or painting the people who choose to have children as some brainlets.
There is an additional security that kids can provide their parents even today. I have 3 kids that are all in various stages of finishing up school and starting their careers. We've stayed pretty close as a family and there is no doubt in my mind that my kids will always be there for my wife and I as well as each other, if we were to need it. As it stands right now, current events have forced all of my kids to come back home (which has actually been kind of awesome), but if something like this (pandemic/recession) happens in the future those roles could easily be reversed. It helps that my wife is Asian and has instilled a certain level of family obligation in our children. It's a heck of an investment, supporting another human being for 22 years or more, but no one will look out for you the way your own family will.
I don't think I've ever seen an article on life without children that deals with the fact that the friends you make growing up and into your twenties and thirties will have kids and you won't. And you will be aliens to each other.
> It’s not a great world to be raising kids right now.
I was born in the late 60's and lived through 20 years of nuclear weapons proliferation fearing all out nuclear conflict (when Reagan won the US presidency my nuclear apocalypse anxieties stepped up a gear). My parents lived through the Cuban missile crisis as early 20-somethings wondering if the world had just bitten the big green banana. Add to that the destabilising proxy wars and games between the Soviet Union and the US around the world.
Was that a great world to be raising kids? Probably not but they still went ahead had me and then my brother. The world has always been a dangerous place but it shouldn't prevent you from bringing kids into the world because that generation might be the one that nudges the world towards being a better place. It's a bit of a failure of imagination to think the way the author does. Also I suspect the author is much younger than me, perhaps with parents around my age, they wouldn't be here if their parents had thought the same way, lucky (I hope) for them they didn't.
That being said, I don't have kids, not because of any of the reasons listed in that somewhat flawed article, I just never got around to it and I'm terrible at sustaining relationships that last long enough for me to have been comfortable being a dad. There is a part of me that wishes I did, but I don't obsess over it.
I was born in the late 60's and lived through 20 years of nuclear weapons proliferation fearing all out nuclear conflict (when Reagan won the US presidency my nuclear apocalypse anxieties stepped up a gear). My parents lived through the Cuban missile crisis as early 20-somethings wondering if the world had just bitten the big green banana. Add to that the destabilising proxy wars and games between the Soviet Union and the US around the world.
Was that a great world to be raising kids? Probably not but they still went ahead had me and then my brother. The world has always been a dangerous place but it shouldn't prevent you from bringing kids into the world because that generation might be the one that nudges the world towards being a better place. It's a bit of a failure of imagination to think the way the author does. Also I suspect the author is much younger than me, perhaps with parents around my age, they wouldn't be here if their parents had thought the same way, lucky (I hope) for them they didn't.
That being said, I don't have kids, not because of any of the reasons listed in that somewhat flawed article, I just never got around to it and I'm terrible at sustaining relationships that last long enough for me to have been comfortable being a dad. There is a part of me that wishes I did, but I don't obsess over it.
> It’s not a great world to be raising kids right now.
This seems to be like one absolutely weird and baseless moral panic.
What was good time then? During medieval times/WW1/WW2/60s/80/90s? If any, world's been the same all the time. The have-nots being looted by those who have 'em. Just that the tech makes it a lot visible, is all.
This seems to be like one absolutely weird and baseless moral panic.
What was good time then? During medieval times/WW1/WW2/60s/80/90s? If any, world's been the same all the time. The have-nots being looted by those who have 'em. Just that the tech makes it a lot visible, is all.
The older I get the more I see very real parallels between maladies of the human brain and maladies of human society.
The way I see it, all this weird and baseless moral panic you've identified tends to resemble clinical depression in an individual. People through their own analysis abstract out what they perceive to be problems, then they market and promote their perceived problems to others and all the hope and despair that comes from learning to perceive those things as problems. Next thing you know, society starts looking like it is clinically depressed and you get people spouting viewpoints like "this is the worst time ever to raise children".
In a similar vein, the experience of schizophrenia seems to parallel the authoritative information "dilemma" known as "fake news" that we're struggling with as a society. Fake news is now pervasive on both the left and the right either in the form of outright lies at worst to deliberate omission of counterbalancing information to serve and agenda. I'm reminded of this Quora question where people with schizophrenia describe what it's like to be schizophrenic:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-have-schizophrenia-...
The way I see it, all this weird and baseless moral panic you've identified tends to resemble clinical depression in an individual. People through their own analysis abstract out what they perceive to be problems, then they market and promote their perceived problems to others and all the hope and despair that comes from learning to perceive those things as problems. Next thing you know, society starts looking like it is clinically depressed and you get people spouting viewpoints like "this is the worst time ever to raise children".
In a similar vein, the experience of schizophrenia seems to parallel the authoritative information "dilemma" known as "fake news" that we're struggling with as a society. Fake news is now pervasive on both the left and the right either in the form of outright lies at worst to deliberate omission of counterbalancing information to serve and agenda. I'm reminded of this Quora question where people with schizophrenia describe what it's like to be schizophrenic:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-have-schizophrenia-...
Having kids is definitely a major inconvenience and huge financial burden, that's for sure. If you look it from that perspective, then there are almost only cons and no pros. But if this the only perspective you can look at this, then you are probably not ready to have kids yet.
The biggest reason not to have children may be missing: responsibility. Raising a child is a massive responsibility, and one not everybody is well-equipped, or willing, to bear. It's no easy task, and it takes precedence over everything else. The news is filled with stories involving parents who probably should never have had children.
I have two children, and I'm really glad I do, but I would never judge anyone for choosing not to.
I have two children, and I'm really glad I do, but I would never judge anyone for choosing not to.
I would not judge people for not having children. And plenty people should not have children - those who have tendency to be abusive and so on.
But I also think that many people expect/require too much of parents and parenting. It does not have to be and should not be insummortable all encompassing responsibility for average person. It does not have to be as isolating as it is and should not be.
These are doing of the way our society is structured, not something inherent to parenting.
But I also think that many people expect/require too much of parents and parenting. It does not have to be and should not be insummortable all encompassing responsibility for average person. It does not have to be as isolating as it is and should not be.
These are doing of the way our society is structured, not something inherent to parenting.
> not everybody is well-equipped, or willing, to bear
Well yeah, but the people who are least equipped are also the people least likely to be introspective enough to realize they probably shouldn't be having children.
Well yeah, but the people who are least equipped are also the people least likely to be introspective enough to realize they probably shouldn't be having children.
Hey, I agree with you. I feel as though I should've included Responsibility instead of Freedom because that's exactly the point I was trying to make. Not having that responsibility is what gives you the freedom.
I'm so glad that someone who has kids can be honest enough to say what you said. Usually people with kids become really defensive if I talk to them about my reasons to stay child free.
Thanks again!
I also encounter that kind of defensiveness in many other areas. A lot of people seem to crave validation that their life choices are the only correct ones. A lot of people see other people making different choices as some sort of threat to their own choices or lifestyle, whether it's religious, political, or 'alternative' lifestyles, or even dress style. The reality is that there's plenty of room for different choices, and we can give each other space to make those different choices.
I'd love to have children. It took my sister having a kid to make me realize this. But with some health issues I have, I don't know if I could ever handle the responsibility. In normal circumstances it would be worth it.
I know what you mean. My sister has a kid and I love my niece to death. Not sure if I'll be able to deal with one of my own though.
What's strange to me is how the insecure the child free crowd seems to be regarding their choice. The seemingly never ending need to patronizingly justify that choice, to the point of moralizing the issue (as the author does), is bizarre. It comes off like the individual is seeking reassurance for their life choice. This isn't the 1950s. No one cares if you decide to have children or not.
What's strange to me is how the insecure the child free crowd seems to be regarding their choice.
Why would it be strange? The ones with kids have the same issue.
"It's the most important job in the world."
"Children are our future."
Just as touchy is religion. Oh, my, the mental hoops I see folks jumping through just to maintain a narrative.
Etc. People sometimes go to great lengths to rationalize their choices, and though you might find it strange, unusual it is not. If there is anything to be learned, be flexible and give up on that narrative when it no longer works for you. Feeling obligation to a 25 year-old you from ten years ago is unwise.
Why would it be strange? The ones with kids have the same issue.
"It's the most important job in the world."
"Children are our future."
Just as touchy is religion. Oh, my, the mental hoops I see folks jumping through just to maintain a narrative.
Etc. People sometimes go to great lengths to rationalize their choices, and though you might find it strange, unusual it is not. If there is anything to be learned, be flexible and give up on that narrative when it no longer works for you. Feeling obligation to a 25 year-old you from ten years ago is unwise.
This is not true. You would be gobsmacked to find out how many people judge the shit out of you for not having kids.
In my experience, these childfree sorts who group together have done it because they are or were constantly criticized for their choices by people whose voices mattered to them; family, coworkers, friends. They find a place where they can belong and let their frustrations with others out where they won't be criticized, and the catharsis of being able to be themselves seems to turn into a drug to them.
I had a vasectomy at 25. I'm 37 now. It's a toss up over what I appreciate doing to myself more; vasectomy or lasik. Both have made my life almost immeasurably better for the things I want to be better. I also got lucky in that my family was pretty understanding of my desires - or at least enough that they didn't want to get into an argument with me about it. I was lucky that I had the right combination of (grand)parents passivity and a past history of extremely strong-willed sarcastic rhetoric that they didn't want to make it a big deal. Over time, they fully accepted it. So, while being child free is definitely me, I never felt like I had to find peers who understood me; I wasn't being questioned constantly or held to task for my decisions, so I didn't feel like I needed to be around people who understood me. Those who didn't didn't matter, and those who did matter either did or didn't say anything negative, so I didn't need to care. I never felt like I was under attack or having to justify myself at the drop of a hat every time I interacted with someone.
My wife, meanwhile, has had a far greater struggle with her family. The critical commentary is effectively nonstop; it isn't, actually, but it can happen at any moment, so she is always at Defcon 2. This is exhausting for her. She hasn't turned to childfree groups for acceptance, but it isn't hard to empathize why someone would. Being around people who understand your decisions and where you can say all the things you wish you could tell your mother, grandmother, aunts and cousins is a pressure release valve.
I can see this in other groups too; anyone who is marginalized or mistreated by society as a whole or people they are close to, they find a safe space and can let their frustrations at the mistreatment they receive out. It helps them stay true to themselves at times when they may otherwise feel forced into a role they do not want to be in by any society that values conformity to specific values and behaviors more than anything else.
Then when people like you or I come across these groups who are doing things contrary to who we are or what we believe, we recoil in horror at the rhetoric. I'm a hetero cisgendered white dude who makes tech money in a tech city. I'm part of the problem to so many people, and get painted with a pretty broad brush. This upsets me sometimes, but I always remind myself that there's a reason why people are doing this, and it really has nothing to do with me in specific. It's a coping mechanism, and I defer judgement on them until the real test; If, after I treat them as valued individuals with valid feelings and emotions and an equal worth to myself, if they don't feel the same vitriol toward me as their rhetoric would imply, then we're good. If they still want to write me off, then I think they're jerks and move on as well. But that doesn't mean that they're wrong for finding a place to belong and vent their feelings. That's just humans being humans.
In my experience, these childfree sorts who group together have done it because they are or were constantly criticized for their choices by people whose voices mattered to them; family, coworkers, friends. They find a place where they can belong and let their frustrations with others out where they won't be criticized, and the catharsis of being able to be themselves seems to turn into a drug to them.
I had a vasectomy at 25. I'm 37 now. It's a toss up over what I appreciate doing to myself more; vasectomy or lasik. Both have made my life almost immeasurably better for the things I want to be better. I also got lucky in that my family was pretty understanding of my desires - or at least enough that they didn't want to get into an argument with me about it. I was lucky that I had the right combination of (grand)parents passivity and a past history of extremely strong-willed sarcastic rhetoric that they didn't want to make it a big deal. Over time, they fully accepted it. So, while being child free is definitely me, I never felt like I had to find peers who understood me; I wasn't being questioned constantly or held to task for my decisions, so I didn't feel like I needed to be around people who understood me. Those who didn't didn't matter, and those who did matter either did or didn't say anything negative, so I didn't need to care. I never felt like I was under attack or having to justify myself at the drop of a hat every time I interacted with someone.
My wife, meanwhile, has had a far greater struggle with her family. The critical commentary is effectively nonstop; it isn't, actually, but it can happen at any moment, so she is always at Defcon 2. This is exhausting for her. She hasn't turned to childfree groups for acceptance, but it isn't hard to empathize why someone would. Being around people who understand your decisions and where you can say all the things you wish you could tell your mother, grandmother, aunts and cousins is a pressure release valve.
I can see this in other groups too; anyone who is marginalized or mistreated by society as a whole or people they are close to, they find a safe space and can let their frustrations at the mistreatment they receive out. It helps them stay true to themselves at times when they may otherwise feel forced into a role they do not want to be in by any society that values conformity to specific values and behaviors more than anything else.
Then when people like you or I come across these groups who are doing things contrary to who we are or what we believe, we recoil in horror at the rhetoric. I'm a hetero cisgendered white dude who makes tech money in a tech city. I'm part of the problem to so many people, and get painted with a pretty broad brush. This upsets me sometimes, but I always remind myself that there's a reason why people are doing this, and it really has nothing to do with me in specific. It's a coping mechanism, and I defer judgement on them until the real test; If, after I treat them as valued individuals with valid feelings and emotions and an equal worth to myself, if they don't feel the same vitriol toward me as their rhetoric would imply, then we're good. If they still want to write me off, then I think they're jerks and move on as well. But that doesn't mean that they're wrong for finding a place to belong and vent their feelings. That's just humans being humans.
Parenting isn't for everyone so I don't judge.
But for me it happened to be most amazing thing in my life so far.
Clearly, the posted article is not very serious, the list of cons seem very shallow as compared to the deep lifelong joys that may come of parenthood.
My first child was unplanned and unwanted by me anyway. Having a child in college was definitely not part of my Grand Plan. I wasn't on speaking terms with his mom but thankfully she still invited me to his birth. As soon as I saw his bloody little head my life changed for the better forever. Then I went home to get some sleep before a calculus final.
Now, thirty years later, with only one daughter remaining in college, my wife and I have plenty of time and money to enjoy our freedom. Though not a second goes by that I don't miss my babies.
But for me it happened to be most amazing thing in my life so far.
Clearly, the posted article is not very serious, the list of cons seem very shallow as compared to the deep lifelong joys that may come of parenthood.
My first child was unplanned and unwanted by me anyway. Having a child in college was definitely not part of my Grand Plan. I wasn't on speaking terms with his mom but thankfully she still invited me to his birth. As soon as I saw his bloody little head my life changed for the better forever. Then I went home to get some sleep before a calculus final.
Now, thirty years later, with only one daughter remaining in college, my wife and I have plenty of time and money to enjoy our freedom. Though not a second goes by that I don't miss my babies.
These aren't very strong arguments because the decision to have kids is a very emotional one.
You'll have more freedom and a bigger wallet without kids. This has been known since forever. That's why my wife and I aren't having them (at the moment).
You'll also have someone to teach and grow with kids, which _can_ help make the world a better place. That's why several of our friends have families.
You'll have more freedom and a bigger wallet without kids. This has been known since forever. That's why my wife and I aren't having them (at the moment).
You'll also have someone to teach and grow with kids, which _can_ help make the world a better place. That's why several of our friends have families.
TLDR: This article is written by someone who never had kids, someone who never asked her parents if they'd ever regret having her.
I have children, and I enjoy them. Both my wife and I have well paid jobs in the tech industry.
Having children requires sacrifices. As with any decision, there is an inevitable cost of opportunity, but what we get from caring for these loved little human beings... Is priceless!
I understand the narrative of the author. This is a narrative of an individual whose core values are "success", material accumulation as proof of it, and individual freedoms. It is true, having children will require a lot of "operation expenses", and much of the time available for "yourself" needs to be invested into your children. I respect that for some people it is not a sacrifice that they are willing to do, and I don't think people should have children because it is the next step.
But I see a problem in this narrative, and it is that it describes having children as a mistake. Again, it is a mistake for the author, but I can hardly see how it is a "universal mistake". It reminds me a bit of game theory, and the idea of "Nash's equilibrium": Players are the society as a whole, some choose to have kids, some choose not to have kids, both have a penalty, yet in the long run they both benefit from their choices (individually and mutually).
I am also concerned about empathy. Daily I realize how difficult it is for some people without children to understand my choice, and the sacrifices it requires. Yes I am happy with my choice, but lack of empathy makes it particularly difficult to avoid choices with a larger cost than it should: Should I stay with my kids when they are sick? Or go to that meeting that is (as most meetings) better done as an email ;). My kids need me, emotionally. If I am with them, I am making a world of a difference for them... and in the future for society, because they will have safe attachment!
The reality is Humanity needs people to choose to have children, not all of us, some of us. We, having children, need empathy, recognition, and help from society. I don't think science and technology are going to solve the need for childhood anytime soon.
But I understand, you don't want to have kids. Good for you! Some people will even thank you, don't succumb to the pressure to have them "because it is next", and most importantly... Please don't forget you are here because someone did the best they could to bring you to this world (and probably made some mistakes, but mostly, they just wanted the best for you).
PS: It also comes to mind "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" by Yuval Harari... Not so much on topic, but I like the door it opens for empathy via the understanding of different narratives, and how they are just constructs.
Having children requires sacrifices. As with any decision, there is an inevitable cost of opportunity, but what we get from caring for these loved little human beings... Is priceless!
I understand the narrative of the author. This is a narrative of an individual whose core values are "success", material accumulation as proof of it, and individual freedoms. It is true, having children will require a lot of "operation expenses", and much of the time available for "yourself" needs to be invested into your children. I respect that for some people it is not a sacrifice that they are willing to do, and I don't think people should have children because it is the next step.
But I see a problem in this narrative, and it is that it describes having children as a mistake. Again, it is a mistake for the author, but I can hardly see how it is a "universal mistake". It reminds me a bit of game theory, and the idea of "Nash's equilibrium": Players are the society as a whole, some choose to have kids, some choose not to have kids, both have a penalty, yet in the long run they both benefit from their choices (individually and mutually).
I am also concerned about empathy. Daily I realize how difficult it is for some people without children to understand my choice, and the sacrifices it requires. Yes I am happy with my choice, but lack of empathy makes it particularly difficult to avoid choices with a larger cost than it should: Should I stay with my kids when they are sick? Or go to that meeting that is (as most meetings) better done as an email ;). My kids need me, emotionally. If I am with them, I am making a world of a difference for them... and in the future for society, because they will have safe attachment!
The reality is Humanity needs people to choose to have children, not all of us, some of us. We, having children, need empathy, recognition, and help from society. I don't think science and technology are going to solve the need for childhood anytime soon.
But I understand, you don't want to have kids. Good for you! Some people will even thank you, don't succumb to the pressure to have them "because it is next", and most importantly... Please don't forget you are here because someone did the best they could to bring you to this world (and probably made some mistakes, but mostly, they just wanted the best for you).
PS: It also comes to mind "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" by Yuval Harari... Not so much on topic, but I like the door it opens for empathy via the understanding of different narratives, and how they are just constructs.
> what we get from caring for these loved little human beings... Is priceless!
And yet you can't express what it is that you get. All the arguments brought forth in the article are objectively true, and you counter by saying "Yeah, that's the price for... well... you know?" That's not much of an argument. Depending on what exactly it is you call priceless, others may well think it's worthless.
> Daily I realize how difficult it is for some people without children to understand my choice, and the sacrifices it requires.
Childfree people fully understand the sacrifices your choice requires. They just aren't obliged or inclined to subsidize it.
And yet you can't express what it is that you get. All the arguments brought forth in the article are objectively true, and you counter by saying "Yeah, that's the price for... well... you know?" That's not much of an argument. Depending on what exactly it is you call priceless, others may well think it's worthless.
> Daily I realize how difficult it is for some people without children to understand my choice, and the sacrifices it requires.
Childfree people fully understand the sacrifices your choice requires. They just aren't obliged or inclined to subsidize it.
Children are the only future we have.
Anyone who finds themselves tending towards this nihilistic, fatalistic worldview desperately needs to recognise the extremely harmful predicament they find themselves in and work instead towards a life of meaning and purpose. I would further urge them to reflect on who is playing the fiddle that is leading them down this terrible path so that they can go forward with knowledge of their enemy.
Children are your purpose. Not your travel or dinner dates. Not your goddamn career. Your Excel spreadsheets will not be there holding your hand on your deathbed. Your dinner dates with equally-unproductive and increasingly-ageing friends are little more than a coping mechanism. They will mean nothing compared to the memories of childish giggles over the family dinner table.
You didn't come this far to just shrivel up and die. Your ancestors didn't build you a nation, defend it with their lives, bestow upon you and awe-inspiring culture and history just so that you could hit your sales projections and get drunk in Ibiza.
Your employer will hire someone else, your friends will move on, your clients won't even remember you. All that matters is family. And in your children, and their children after them, you will live on forever. Just as your ancestors do in you.
Don't be these forty-somethings realising they've left it too late and now have the last 50 years of their lives to twiddle away doing meaningless junk. Don't be that pitiful retired couple trying to fill the void with cruises and musicals.
You know that pang in your chest when you see the beautiful family walking down the street? You know the one. Bright, happy kids full of life, parents full of the pride and joy that can only be found in love and family. For god's sake don't deprive yourself of that, not for the shallow hedonism of a pay packet and extended youth.
You want that too. You know you do.
Children are your purpose. Not your travel or dinner dates. Not your goddamn career. Your Excel spreadsheets will not be there holding your hand on your deathbed. Your dinner dates with equally-unproductive and increasingly-ageing friends are little more than a coping mechanism. They will mean nothing compared to the memories of childish giggles over the family dinner table.
You didn't come this far to just shrivel up and die. Your ancestors didn't build you a nation, defend it with their lives, bestow upon you and awe-inspiring culture and history just so that you could hit your sales projections and get drunk in Ibiza.
Your employer will hire someone else, your friends will move on, your clients won't even remember you. All that matters is family. And in your children, and their children after them, you will live on forever. Just as your ancestors do in you.
Don't be these forty-somethings realising they've left it too late and now have the last 50 years of their lives to twiddle away doing meaningless junk. Don't be that pitiful retired couple trying to fill the void with cruises and musicals.
You know that pang in your chest when you see the beautiful family walking down the street? You know the one. Bright, happy kids full of life, parents full of the pride and joy that can only be found in love and family. For god's sake don't deprive yourself of that, not for the shallow hedonism of a pay packet and extended youth.
You want that too. You know you do.
While I don't disagree with you, I also don't find it particularly useful to try and change these people's minds. Anti-natalism can be a self-correcting problem. Just let the anti-natalists die off (as they inevitably will, by definition) and they will be replaced by people who made better choices.
I agree with you totally. There is one problem, however. That those will be our children in which we invested, who will have to take care of them while they are old. That is not fair.
> in your children, and their children after them, you will live on forever. Just as your ancestors do in you.
No you won't, and no they don't. Most people will be forgotten within a couple of generations -- or are you well-versed in the lives of your great-great grandparents? Your genes, random and (thus, probably) non-special as they are, will be insignificant within four generations.
> You know that pang in your chest when you see the beautiful family walking down the street?
Kids or not, unless you're incredibly skilled and/or lucky, your contribution to the world will be forgotten within a couple of hundred years and likely much sooner. Once you come to terms with that, life gets much better. Be kind to people, make thoughtful choices, and live the best life you can today.
No you won't, and no they don't. Most people will be forgotten within a couple of generations -- or are you well-versed in the lives of your great-great grandparents? Your genes, random and (thus, probably) non-special as they are, will be insignificant within four generations.
> You know that pang in your chest when you see the beautiful family walking down the street?
Kids or not, unless you're incredibly skilled and/or lucky, your contribution to the world will be forgotten within a couple of hundred years and likely much sooner. Once you come to terms with that, life gets much better. Be kind to people, make thoughtful choices, and live the best life you can today.
It's never been a great world to raise children in. Years ago the child mortality rate meant every family had a Jimmy that wouldn't make it to age 5.
It bugs me no end when people assert without citation that the world is worse than it ever was. One thing to keep in mind is that our awareness of the bad things in the world has certainly gone up due to our digital connectivity but that is not the same thing as actual crime, sickness, etc., going up.