Ask HN: Has anyone fixed their own bruxism?
232 comments
Being that this is Hacker News, and thinking completely off the top of my head...
I fixed my sleep apnea by sleeping with an oxymeter on. When breathing was obstructed, my blood oxygen dropped. The oxymeter beeped and woke me up. I changed positions, and went back to sleep, ultimately changing sleep habits to the point that I can get through most nights without awakening. I was able to avoid using a CPAP that way.
Perhaps a muscle tension sensing device, such as https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13723 could serve a similar function. Place the sensors on your jaw muscles while you sleep (may only need to be one of them) and if you clench, it beeps or buzzes and wakes you up. May take some inventiveness to integrate it with power and alert, and then to get it comfortable enough to sleep in. And you'd want to avoid any cords that could wrap around you.
It may not lead to a cure, but might give you an idea of what's going on when you clench at night.
I fixed my sleep apnea by sleeping with an oxymeter on. When breathing was obstructed, my blood oxygen dropped. The oxymeter beeped and woke me up. I changed positions, and went back to sleep, ultimately changing sleep habits to the point that I can get through most nights without awakening. I was able to avoid using a CPAP that way.
Perhaps a muscle tension sensing device, such as https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13723 could serve a similar function. Place the sensors on your jaw muscles while you sleep (may only need to be one of them) and if you clench, it beeps or buzzes and wakes you up. May take some inventiveness to integrate it with power and alert, and then to get it comfortable enough to sleep in. And you'd want to avoid any cords that could wrap around you.
It may not lead to a cure, but might give you an idea of what's going on when you clench at night.
Sleep apnea is a problem for two reasons: low oxygen saturation is Very Bad, and frequent arousals are Bad.
Sounds like you've managed to address the first issue, but without a sleep study it's impossible to say for sure whether you've addressed the second problem.
Most apneas typically occur during REM sleep, when muscle tone is at its lowest and airways are more likely to collapse. If you frequently wake up during REM (even if it's a micro-arousal), your sleep architecture is broken.
It boggles the mind that sleep apnea severity is diagnosed on number of events (AHI) without considering when those events occur. Maybe you have an AHI of 3, but if they all happen during 2 hours of REM, you basically wake up 24 times during REM, which sounds a lot worse than 3 events per hour.
Sauce: have sleep apnea, hate the machine, but have learned to live with it.
Sounds like you've managed to address the first issue, but without a sleep study it's impossible to say for sure whether you've addressed the second problem.
Most apneas typically occur during REM sleep, when muscle tone is at its lowest and airways are more likely to collapse. If you frequently wake up during REM (even if it's a micro-arousal), your sleep architecture is broken.
It boggles the mind that sleep apnea severity is diagnosed on number of events (AHI) without considering when those events occur. Maybe you have an AHI of 3, but if they all happen during 2 hours of REM, you basically wake up 24 times during REM, which sounds a lot worse than 3 events per hour.
Sauce: have sleep apnea, hate the machine, but have learned to live with it.
I fixed my sleep apnea using a Velumount device, which is simply a piece of wire you stick in your throat before you go to sleep, and it keeps the important part of throat unblocked during the night. One of those things that truly deserve to be called "life hacks".
Learning how to use it is a lot of "fun" (expect to spend half of the day vomiting until you learn how to insert it properly), but afterwards it works like magic.
I would recommend to try it, and verify by oxymeter how it works.
Learning how to use it is a lot of "fun" (expect to spend half of the day vomiting until you learn how to insert it properly), but afterwards it works like magic.
I would recommend to try it, and verify by oxymeter how it works.
I would love to try this, but I don't believe they are available in the US. Are they custom made?
According to velumount.ch (and the other location sites), it does need a fitting session to mould it. I wasn't able to find a price list for my country and the doctor who would do the fitting is in another city, so it is pricey overall it seems. Especially if the Swiss pricing is anything to go by.
The product itself seems like it's supposed to be malleable to adjust to the individual, which kind of makes the fitting session + workshop seem like rent seeking. Just give me an instruction booklet with FAQ and warnings.
The product itself seems like it's supposed to be malleable to adjust to the individual, which kind of makes the fitting session + workshop seem like rent seeking. Just give me an instruction booklet with FAQ and warnings.
Not sure if I understood it correctly, but the branch in Hungary seems to do it for 120000 HFT = 350 EUR.
If you have a friend who is a customer, he could (this is cheating) buy one for you (pretending it is a replacement for him), and explain to you how to use it. You save a lot of money, but the disadvantage is that it is not fitted for you. I am not sure what difference it makes.
So, if that is an option, I would recommend buying one via friend, testing it (with oxymeter), and if you are satisfied, follow the official channels (through Hungary). At the moment you are sure the solution works for you, I think it is worth the money, considering how costly and/or inconvenient are the alternative solutions. (Then you can do an extra test whether having the wire fitted for you is an improvement.)
(It would probably also make sense to take photos of the wire immediately after you buy, so that you can try making duplicates later when the original piece breaks or loses shape.)
If you have a friend who is a customer, he could (this is cheating) buy one for you (pretending it is a replacement for him), and explain to you how to use it. You save a lot of money, but the disadvantage is that it is not fitted for you. I am not sure what difference it makes.
So, if that is an option, I would recommend buying one via friend, testing it (with oxymeter), and if you are satisfied, follow the official channels (through Hungary). At the moment you are sure the solution works for you, I think it is worth the money, considering how costly and/or inconvenient are the alternative solutions. (Then you can do an extra test whether having the wire fitted for you is an improvement.)
(It would probably also make sense to take photos of the wire immediately after you buy, so that you can try making duplicates later when the original piece breaks or loses shape.)
Their web page says Switzerland, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Hungary, South Africa, India. Note that the prices may differ.
Yes, the wires are custom shaped. (But they work even if you use a version shaped for someone else with similar head size. I don't know how much difference it makes compared to shaping specifically for you.)
Yes, the wires are custom shaped. (But they work even if you use a version shaped for someone else with similar head size. I don't know how much difference it makes compared to shaping specifically for you.)
I dislike my CPAP as much as the next person, but I had to sleep without it recently and the next day was essentially ruined. It’s an astonishing difference in mental clarity and mood, at least for me. I’m not entirely sure how I dealt with life before.
Right, but the AHI is specifically to aid in initial and ongoing treatment. If you’re hitting a certain threshold of events with a PAP, it probably means you need more pressure, even if that AHI can indicate a fairly large range in reduction of sleep quality.
Surgery is an option for those who are not obese, despite what you may have been told or read. Worth looking into, however, only few surgeons in the world are properly trained to specifically to diagnose and treat the very delicate upper airway.
I had trouble with sleep apnea.
Long ago, I suspected it and was able to adjust by just sleeping on my side.
Then years later, I was having more trouble. I took the test and found I had mild sleep apnea and they gave me a machine to try.
I hated it and gave it back (looking back they gave me a terrible default setup and a huge facemask that most people immediately switch out)
My solution was to get a mouthguard. The way it works is it keeps your jaw aligned at night, so airway+tongue are less likely to obstruct your breathing. Just search for "boil and bite" type mouthguards on amazon, they're inexpensive and pretty easy to use.
What I found interesting during the mouthguard stage is that I probably have had bruxism all along. I have one part of the bone structure in my mouth that grew bigger possibly from clenching over the years.
In the end, that only worked well for maybe 6 months before I started noticing the trouble again, so I went for the cpap. I had to make it work and ended up working with a heated hose and the nasal pillow style nosepiece. I'm pretty good now. (one more piece of advice, keep it clean with alcohol and you'll be much better off)
Long ago, I suspected it and was able to adjust by just sleeping on my side.
Then years later, I was having more trouble. I took the test and found I had mild sleep apnea and they gave me a machine to try.
I hated it and gave it back (looking back they gave me a terrible default setup and a huge facemask that most people immediately switch out)
My solution was to get a mouthguard. The way it works is it keeps your jaw aligned at night, so airway+tongue are less likely to obstruct your breathing. Just search for "boil and bite" type mouthguards on amazon, they're inexpensive and pretty easy to use.
What I found interesting during the mouthguard stage is that I probably have had bruxism all along. I have one part of the bone structure in my mouth that grew bigger possibly from clenching over the years.
In the end, that only worked well for maybe 6 months before I started noticing the trouble again, so I went for the cpap. I had to make it work and ended up working with a heated hose and the nasal pillow style nosepiece. I'm pretty good now. (one more piece of advice, keep it clean with alcohol and you'll be much better off)
I had trouble for years with both sleep apnoea and bruxing in my sleep.
I tried all sorts, from mouthguards to oximeter alarms, and nothing really helped, if anything, they generally worsened my sleep - I'm a light sleeper at the best of times.
A visit to the doctor revealed that I was pre-diabetic, and he advised that I shed some weight - I was 250lbs, and I brought myself down to 180lbs over about six months.
The sleep apnoea and bruxism both went away with the weight, and a decade on, haven't returned. I suspect that the additional weight was making my airway collapse in the night, and that would then result in me bruxing as I quietly asphyxiated in my sleep, before I'd wake up gasping in a puddle of sweat.
I had thought for the longest time that the root cause was stress, and that it was therefore untreatable without major lifestyle changes which weren't tenable at the time - but the stress went on for years after I lost the weight, without bruxing or apnoea. I suppose, at root, the stress was the cause, as I sure as hell comfort ate my way out of my misery and into size 40 jeans.
I do, once in a blue moon, still do the choke and grind routine, but it's usually only if I've gone to bed really quite drunk.
Obviously this isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, as sleep apnoea and bruxism can be brought about by any number of causes, but this was a solution for me, and might be for others who are in the same situation I was in.
I tried all sorts, from mouthguards to oximeter alarms, and nothing really helped, if anything, they generally worsened my sleep - I'm a light sleeper at the best of times.
A visit to the doctor revealed that I was pre-diabetic, and he advised that I shed some weight - I was 250lbs, and I brought myself down to 180lbs over about six months.
The sleep apnoea and bruxism both went away with the weight, and a decade on, haven't returned. I suspect that the additional weight was making my airway collapse in the night, and that would then result in me bruxing as I quietly asphyxiated in my sleep, before I'd wake up gasping in a puddle of sweat.
I had thought for the longest time that the root cause was stress, and that it was therefore untreatable without major lifestyle changes which weren't tenable at the time - but the stress went on for years after I lost the weight, without bruxing or apnoea. I suppose, at root, the stress was the cause, as I sure as hell comfort ate my way out of my misery and into size 40 jeans.
I do, once in a blue moon, still do the choke and grind routine, but it's usually only if I've gone to bed really quite drunk.
Obviously this isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, as sleep apnoea and bruxism can be brought about by any number of causes, but this was a solution for me, and might be for others who are in the same situation I was in.
Congratulations on the dedication to lose the weight and maintain the loss.
I’m a grinder myself and my weight yo-yos between 200-250LB. My grinding is definitely related to weight. If my BMI is below 25%, the grinding stops. Pop back up and it starts again.
Stress plays a role in daytime clenching but it is far less when I’m in better shape.
I’m a grinder myself and my weight yo-yos between 200-250LB. My grinding is definitely related to weight. If my BMI is below 25%, the grinding stops. Pop back up and it starts again.
Stress plays a role in daytime clenching but it is far less when I’m in better shape.
> "boil and bite" type mouthguards on Amazon
These can work but feel pretty horrible to sleep with. If you can afford it, your dentist can make you a slim fit top guard that is far more comfortable. I wear one and it's 100% fixed my jaw tension and tooth grind damage problems.
There is also a new type of fitted double guard which holds your jaw slightly open to alleviate apnea. They're expensive but depending on your country's healthcare you may get a rebate if prescribed one after a sleep study.
If your finances/healthcare don't permit the above, I recommend trimming down the boil and bite guard with scissors, you don't need most of that plastic. It will still suck compared a proper dental guard.
These can work but feel pretty horrible to sleep with. If you can afford it, your dentist can make you a slim fit top guard that is far more comfortable. I wear one and it's 100% fixed my jaw tension and tooth grind damage problems.
There is also a new type of fitted double guard which holds your jaw slightly open to alleviate apnea. They're expensive but depending on your country's healthcare you may get a rebate if prescribed one after a sleep study.
If your finances/healthcare don't permit the above, I recommend trimming down the boil and bite guard with scissors, you don't need most of that plastic. It will still suck compared a proper dental guard.
Do you use water in your CPAP? I never felt it added any benefit and I just leave the chamber empty..Consequently, the CPAP pump and hoses remain dry, and I haven't needed to clean them often at all.
I just did the recommendations, and use distilled water in the water tank.
I was lots more successful with humidified air. If you have a raw throat, or if you have a stuffed up nose, humidity will take care of it. Another way to help is to drink enough fluids.
Note that I turned down the default temperature and humidity.
As to the cleaning - you need to clean it anyway. Your exhalations do go down the tube backwards. When I first started using it I would get tired of cleaning and put it off and got a really bad head cold.
I was lots more successful with humidified air. If you have a raw throat, or if you have a stuffed up nose, humidity will take care of it. Another way to help is to drink enough fluids.
Note that I turned down the default temperature and humidity.
As to the cleaning - you need to clean it anyway. Your exhalations do go down the tube backwards. When I first started using it I would get tired of cleaning and put it off and got a really bad head cold.
Interesting. There are three products I found on the market made for this, but one is unavailable to consumers, the other has temporarily ceased production, and the third I have but have not been able to get working.
I’m trying some electrode gel on the one I have. If that doesn’t work, I’ll look into the sensor you linked. The process you described is exactly what these devices do: biofeedback.
I’m trying some electrode gel on the one I have. If that doesn’t work, I’ll look into the sensor you linked. The process you described is exactly what these devices do: biofeedback.
Forgot, for those interested, the products are:
* grindcare: has studies, out of production
* bruxrelief: no consumer product yet. No biofeedback
* sleep guard: trying to get it to work
* grindcare: has studies, out of production
* bruxrelief: no consumer product yet. No biofeedback
* sleep guard: trying to get it to work
Yes, sleep apnea is associated with bruxism. I couldn’t tolerate cpap, sleeping on my tummy or side helps some.
What type of mask were you using? I find the nasal pillows to pretty comfortable. Also, was your machine and auto-titrating CPAP? That helps alot
i think i tried nasal pillows. not auto-titrating. Probably didn't give it enough time to get adjusted... but my sleep is better now anyway.
CPAP is not something to avoid but to embrace. I love my machine. I sleep on my back again. I hardly wake during the night. I can breath fresh hair even with a pillow over my head. It's just lovely.
Hey, which oxymeter do you use? Thank you.
FYI, if you have an Apple watch, it is believed that they will be adding PulseOx to it with iOS14. Apparently the hardware is already capable.
Even if that's added in watchOS 7 (which is what I'm guessing you meant, not iOS 14 alone), what would be required is a software mechanism to alert the user below a particular threshold. Given Apple's history, I doubt if this feature would be enabled for currently sold devices even if the hardware supports it. Apple may have its own reasons not to support certain features available in hardware, including reliability factors, and not just profit motives alone. So I'm kinda doubtful of the feature being enabled and working as the GP described in the devices being sold now (before new versions arrive later this year).
Sorry to be specific what I meant was that iOS14 has an API to read pulseox readings from an Apple Watch and then you can do what you want with it (like make an app to alert on it).
Presumably yes it would need support in WatchOS 7.
Presumably yes it would need support in WatchOS 7.
I read that PulseOx readings on watches are unreliable, and the ones that measure your finger are much more accurate.
Would that still be true of a more expensive device, like the Apple Watch?
Would that still be true of a more expensive device, like the Apple Watch?
I'm also wondering about this, hopefully someone can give us an answer.
iOS 14 (and watchOS 7) are already in beta; has this feature already made it into that?
Facelake.
Uses 2 AAA batteries. Good for 3-4 nights.
Uses 2 AAA batteries. Good for 3-4 nights.
Which model?
FL350 fingertip.
If you can spend more, I'd suggest the wrist type. The fingertip can be a little uncomfortable being clamped to your finger all night.
If you can spend more, I'd suggest the wrist type. The fingertip can be a little uncomfortable being clamped to your finger all night.
Thanks. In a previous comment you said that “The oxymeter beeped and woke me up.” Is this the same oxymeter? I read the FAQ for the FL350 and it doesn’t have an alarm.
I double checked and the one I use is an old model (FL100) that appears to have been discontinued. The FL350 mostly resembles it, though it appears you are correct that the FL350 does not have an alarm. My apologies for the misdirection.
This one does have an alarm: https://www.amazon.com/Wellue-Fingertip-Saturation-Batteries...
This one does have an alarm: https://www.amazon.com/Wellue-Fingertip-Saturation-Batteries...
> Perhaps a muscle tension sensing device
I gave a muscle tension based anti bruxism device called GrindAlert a serious try perhaps a decade ago, and it didn't help me.
I gave a muscle tension based anti bruxism device called GrindAlert a serious try perhaps a decade ago, and it didn't help me.
> When breathing was obstructed, my blood oxygen dropped. The oxymeter beeped and woke me up.
That's basically what your body already does natively, though.
That's basically what your body already does natively, though.
can you recommend any device for the sleep apnea? I'm experiencing some symptoms and would love to proactively do something about it.
Sleep apnea came up in another thread about a month ago [0] where someone posted this:
> This may sound crazy, but for those who can't tolerate a CPAP, an effective alternative is playing the didgeridoo.
They linked a study [1] that actually tested this and found it to be helpful.
0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23430332
1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1360393/
> This may sound crazy, but for those who can't tolerate a CPAP, an effective alternative is playing the didgeridoo.
They linked a study [1] that actually tested this and found it to be helpful.
0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23430332
1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1360393/
Interesting. Guessing this has to do with humming (or generally, vibration) increasing endogenous nitric oxide production ~15x [0]. Nitric oxide is a vasodilator, which could mitigate sleep apnea caused by a deviated septum.
0: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12119224/
0: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12119224/
It could also just be a strengthening of the diaphragm, lungs, and throat.
I actually have ordered a harmonica as one of my long shot attempts to fix this. Was inspired by the didgeridoo post. Apparently some hospitals use harmonicas for respiratory patients.
Yes, get a CPAP. You have to go to a sleep doctor, get tested and then you can get one. I have one and it absolutely changed my life, nearly everyone says that. It effectively fixes obstructive sleep apnea.
It's been recently suggested to me by my psychiatrist that I take a sleep study. I know this might seem dumb, but my biggest hesitation is that the mere any of being watched by someone will make it extremely difficult for me to actually fall asleep. I generally have a tough time falling asleep outside of my comfort zone e.g. at a friend's place.
Was this a problem for you? I have a feeling a sleep medication would help with this but won't that interfere with the study?
Was this a problem for you? I have a feeling a sleep medication would help with this but won't that interfere with the study?
It's super weird and you will not sleep well. But they account for that in the results. You can't use any sleep aids, but that's sort of the point.
At the end of the day, you will eventually fall asleep and hit deep sleep and they'll get the measurements they need.
No one sleeps well knowing they are being watched and hooked up to all those sensors. :)
At the end of the day, you will eventually fall asleep and hit deep sleep and they'll get the measurements they need.
No one sleeps well knowing they are being watched and hooked up to all those sensors. :)
My sleep study with Kaiser just involved wearing a wristband computer thing on my wrist that recorded data from an optical sensor on my finger while I slept at home. Nobody was watching.
It can be weird. My most recent study was quite comfy and unobtrusive. And they often start with a “DIY” home study these days. I put mine off for a long time, for various reasons...but when I started falling asleep driving home from work, I relented. I now sleep with a bipap machine (really well-designed device by ResMed), and it has changed my life.
Make sure you are tired. No caffiene that day and get up early. I did the sleep test with all the wires and video on me and it did not bother me once I got used to it and realized it was good for me. Also, they have take home sleep tests now so really there's no excuse. It could save your life, please do it!
Having done two sleep studies, the first time it took me 45 minutes to fall asleep, so they gave me a (low dose) Xanax the next time, you can share this concern with your doctor and they should be able to address it.
You can do an at-home sleep study where you wear a cannula attached to a small machine. That's how I did my sleep study and it was sufficient to prescribe me an APAP machine.
I can imagine (purely from reading Why We Sleep) that sleep aids medication would ruin the study, and won't help you sleep anyway
[deleted]
You can try a few mouth guards that can be purchased off of Amazon which may work to varying degrees based on the cause of your sleep apnea. From my experience this[0] model had the best results. These type of mouth guards tend to work if you have collapse in the area behind your tongue, which may or may not be the case (more likely if you are overweight). An Alaxostent is another option if you're experiencing soft-palate collapse; however, it's expensive and hard to know if it will help before the fact.
It's possible that you're experiencing collapse in both areas; and it's also possible that neither device will work, depending on the severity of your sleep apnea; namely if you're overweight. I had "mild" sleep apnea that left me VERY fatigued because it was characterized by mild hypopneas (slight secessions in breathing) at an incredible frequency which stopped me from reaching REM throughout the night. The devices helped.
To ameliorate the situation completely I found a great doctor out of USC who ended up performing 4 procedures and 3 surgeries. I had my uvula cut, my tongue burned, my palate ablated, and a few other things. It was an incredible headache during the time but well worth it and now don't need a CPAP. Also worth mentioning that I had some gut dysbiosis at the time which can masquerade as sleep apnea. Good luck to you.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Eliminator-Sleep-Custom-Bruxism-Mouth...
It's possible that you're experiencing collapse in both areas; and it's also possible that neither device will work, depending on the severity of your sleep apnea; namely if you're overweight. I had "mild" sleep apnea that left me VERY fatigued because it was characterized by mild hypopneas (slight secessions in breathing) at an incredible frequency which stopped me from reaching REM throughout the night. The devices helped.
To ameliorate the situation completely I found a great doctor out of USC who ended up performing 4 procedures and 3 surgeries. I had my uvula cut, my tongue burned, my palate ablated, and a few other things. It was an incredible headache during the time but well worth it and now don't need a CPAP. Also worth mentioning that I had some gut dysbiosis at the time which can masquerade as sleep apnea. Good luck to you.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Eliminator-Sleep-Custom-Bruxism-Mouth...
In my experience you'll need to build up a toolbox of ways to help solve the root cause.
For the past 10 years I've been lightly grinding my teeth. Previous partners have noticed it at night and my dentist has suggested a mouth guard in the past to help.
I hate the feel of a mouth guard so avoided the suggestion for years and also avoided trying to solve it. But in the past 3 years i accidentally discovered the root cause and have been using various methodologies that as a side effect have mostly got it to stop.
Root cause: Trauma. (this can be either mental and/or physical)
The body will attempt to protect you in different ways. Tension, clenching, stiffness, etc. These are short term strategies which can be useful. But if the trauma isn't worked out it can leave the sympathetic nervous system in a heightened state.
Toolbox: (I like this metaphor because it's never one "trick" to fix things)
* Therapy - Seems obvious in retrospect but i was very skeptical at first. I ended up seeing one who specialized in mindfulness & cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). But you'll want to see what system works best for you
* Acupuncture
* Meditation practice
* Literally learning how to breathe (i would oddly hold my breath)
Using this toolbox has been a life-changer for various "bugs" in my life. Many i wrongly assumed were unfixable.
All of this has led me to feel calmer. Which has relaxed my body and helped with my posture. I can sleep better, and this lowered heightened state has largely removed my jaw clenching.
Find a way that works for you. But know that it's not a forever issue <3
For the past 10 years I've been lightly grinding my teeth. Previous partners have noticed it at night and my dentist has suggested a mouth guard in the past to help.
I hate the feel of a mouth guard so avoided the suggestion for years and also avoided trying to solve it. But in the past 3 years i accidentally discovered the root cause and have been using various methodologies that as a side effect have mostly got it to stop.
Root cause: Trauma. (this can be either mental and/or physical)
The body will attempt to protect you in different ways. Tension, clenching, stiffness, etc. These are short term strategies which can be useful. But if the trauma isn't worked out it can leave the sympathetic nervous system in a heightened state.
Toolbox: (I like this metaphor because it's never one "trick" to fix things)
* Therapy - Seems obvious in retrospect but i was very skeptical at first. I ended up seeing one who specialized in mindfulness & cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). But you'll want to see what system works best for you
* Acupuncture
* Meditation practice
* Literally learning how to breathe (i would oddly hold my breath)
Using this toolbox has been a life-changer for various "bugs" in my life. Many i wrongly assumed were unfixable.
All of this has led me to feel calmer. Which has relaxed my body and helped with my posture. I can sleep better, and this lowered heightened state has largely removed my jaw clenching.
Find a way that works for you. But know that it's not a forever issue <3
Wind musical instrument is also a great way for learning how to breathe. I have started learning flute in my twenties and found out that I do not breathe properly. Find a good teacher. Yoga also helps.
With flutes, there are many, I have end up with shakuhachi, which I use in its original context, as a tool for meditation. When playing meditatively, it is easier to concentrate on your posture and breath, going through your body again and again, removing any unnecessary tensions. You can be more "in" the body, less in your head. Great practice!
Just playing it for 20 minutes changes your mood. Good luck!
With flutes, there are many, I have end up with shakuhachi, which I use in its original context, as a tool for meditation. When playing meditatively, it is easier to concentrate on your posture and breath, going through your body again and again, removing any unnecessary tensions. You can be more "in" the body, less in your head. Great practice!
Just playing it for 20 minutes changes your mood. Good luck!
It can help with lung capacity issues as well because both brass and woodwinds give your lungs a really good workout but make sure to keep your instrument very clean, especially the mouthpiece and the top of the tubes because you can easily contract a fungus that ends up in your lungs through them.
And I would add that whatever you find that works for you, keep doing it. Again and again. Like brushing your teeth. Because those causes may tend to slip back in after some time.
> Literally learning how to breathe (i would oddly hold my breath)
How did you go about learning?
How did you go about learning?
For me it was a bit of a combination.
Main one was the breathing exercises in mediation. Which teach you how focusing on breathing can help steady yourself if tension, anxiety, nervousness, etc overtake you.
Secondarily was i was taking some Pilates classes. Seeing how breathing was important during movements helped reinforce the notion. Plus it helps you get more oxygen in and you tire less
Overall it was retraining my body to keep breathing :)
Main one was the breathing exercises in mediation. Which teach you how focusing on breathing can help steady yourself if tension, anxiety, nervousness, etc overtake you.
Secondarily was i was taking some Pilates classes. Seeing how breathing was important during movements helped reinforce the notion. Plus it helps you get more oxygen in and you tire less
Overall it was retraining my body to keep breathing :)
I'm onto the same track, there's something called myofunctional training/exercies which seem related but I've yet to try it. Would love to hear others opinions on it.
Would love to know as well. I often find that I've been holding my breath for quite a while whether I'm reading or working and suddenly will gasp for air.
Responded above, basically learning to breath in meditation showed me how much i was holding my breath.
Now it's almost unconscious when I'm sensing anxiety/tensions rising. I'll start focusing on my breathing to bring me back to a calmer state
Now it's almost unconscious when I'm sensing anxiety/tensions rising. I'll start focusing on my breathing to bring me back to a calmer state
One item that I would consider adding to this toolkit is Feldenkrais practice. It has a reputation as a gentle and highly personal method for retraining deeply engrained bodily habits. There are practitioners all over the world who can do one-on-one hands on therapy, or you can look for recordings of guided practices.
A quick google search found this lesson [1] and I'm sure there are plenty of others.
[1] https://feldenkraisproject.com/lesson/easing-jaw-neck-should...
A quick google search found this lesson [1] and I'm sure there are plenty of others.
[1] https://feldenkraisproject.com/lesson/easing-jaw-neck-should...
Thanks. Realized I hold my breath too. Did you just pay attention and stop when you noticed?
And how did you find a good therapist? I feel like it would be a hard domain, but helpful if I found a good one.
And how did you find a good therapist? I feel like it would be a hard domain, but helpful if I found a good one.
With the breath holding, or other things in your body, it takes a few stages. First is just noticing when something happens in a non-judgmental way. Just a neutral awareness of it. For me this was a challenging part because if I did notice the breath holding I would mentally chastise myself and try to force the air more violently. After that it’s becomes more about taking that neutral awareness and doing something for it. Either taking some deep breaths or checking in with myself to see if I’m feeling anxious.
It’s a continual practice, no one ever gets perfect at it. But building up the skills let’s you ride that bicycle :)
As for therapists it’s really a personal call. Research some ones in your area. Most will list their qualifications and their therapy modality. And then give them a call and ask for a consultation. Kinda like a first date you chat over the phone or in-person. You will get a personal sense on how they respond to your question or needs. I called 5 and picked one after those consults.
My main reason was I felt more at ease with the sound of their voice
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
It’s a continual practice, no one ever gets perfect at it. But building up the skills let’s you ride that bicycle :)
As for therapists it’s really a personal call. Research some ones in your area. Most will list their qualifications and their therapy modality. And then give them a call and ask for a consultation. Kinda like a first date you chat over the phone or in-person. You will get a personal sense on how they respond to your question or needs. I called 5 and picked one after those consults.
My main reason was I felt more at ease with the sound of their voice
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
This is a very useful answer.
My 2 cents: I would add hypnotherapy to the list of possible treatments - with focus on looking at your emotions.
Trauma or unresolved emotional issues almost always result in “Body Armouring” or Psychosomatic symptoms of some kind. Depression and back pain go hand in hand.
- I’m a psychologist and hypnotherapist.
I've had problems with bruxism for decades. Dentist said it was stress, he gave me a mouthguard and I proceeded to break it. I would still grind my teeth even if I was super relaxed.
I now do something that has reduced my bruxism by a LOT:
Mouth taping.
My dad's old college roommate is a bruxism expert and wrote to me:
"Bruxism is the body's attempt to dilate pharyngeal muscles to open the airway and facilitate breathing. You probably snore and or have sleep apnea."
Mouth taping solves this because it forces my body to breath thru the nose vs the mouth and consequently I get more oxygen and much better sleep.
Add a magnesium supplement to this and I'm doing so much better.
EDIT: Forgot to mention I had bad allergies and have asthma so I learned bad breathing habits early on. AKA mouth breathing.
A simple test: Where is your tongue resting right now? If it's at the bottom of your mouth, you're probably a mouth breather. And that's not good!
I now do something that has reduced my bruxism by a LOT:
Mouth taping.
My dad's old college roommate is a bruxism expert and wrote to me:
"Bruxism is the body's attempt to dilate pharyngeal muscles to open the airway and facilitate breathing. You probably snore and or have sleep apnea."
Mouth taping solves this because it forces my body to breath thru the nose vs the mouth and consequently I get more oxygen and much better sleep.
Add a magnesium supplement to this and I'm doing so much better.
EDIT: Forgot to mention I had bad allergies and have asthma so I learned bad breathing habits early on. AKA mouth breathing.
A simple test: Where is your tongue resting right now? If it's at the bottom of your mouth, you're probably a mouth breather. And that's not good!
I've been doing mouth taping for maybe six months to a year.
I think it's helping.
I think it's helping.
Hmm. My tongue is always t the roof of my mouth when awake. But my nose gets stuffed when I sleep. Does yours with allergies?
I ordered some breathe right things for the nose for sleep to try to improve this, hoping it helps with bruxism. If they work and I still have it, will try tape. Want to make sure I don’t suffocate first due to blocked nose haha.
I ordered some breathe right things for the nose for sleep to try to improve this, hoping it helps with bruxism. If they work and I still have it, will try tape. Want to make sure I don’t suffocate first due to blocked nose haha.
Try mouth taping. I suggest 3m Micropore tape.
My nose gets clogged sometimes but when you force yourself to breathe through your nose, your body tries to accommodate and opens it up. It will feel weird in the first week but you'll get used to it.
I'd skip breathe right and go straight to tape! I tried breathe right but I was still mouth breathing.
I started with https://somnifix.com/products/mouth-strips-snoring-sleep-aid – they have a tiny cut in the tape that allows some airflow; but it got too costly and wasteful so I moved to 3M's Micropore.
My nose gets clogged sometimes but when you force yourself to breathe through your nose, your body tries to accommodate and opens it up. It will feel weird in the first week but you'll get used to it.
I'd skip breathe right and go straight to tape! I tried breathe right but I was still mouth breathing.
I started with https://somnifix.com/products/mouth-strips-snoring-sleep-aid – they have a tiny cut in the tape that allows some airflow; but it got too costly and wasteful so I moved to 3M's Micropore.
Two things:
1. Reducing caffeine intake. The science seems to be fairly conclusive that high caffeine intake is associated with bruxism.
2. Magnesium supplementation. Here the science is a bit less clear: I haven't found any study tying magnesium to bruxism, but there are studies correlating magnesium deficiency with conditions related to bruxism, such as anxiety and muscle tension. In any case I think the risks of magnesium supplementation are low.
I will say that my experience with grinding my teeth stopping was that it probably went away because of changes that were out of my control that made my life much less stressful. But those aren't much good as interventions.
1. Reducing caffeine intake. The science seems to be fairly conclusive that high caffeine intake is associated with bruxism.
2. Magnesium supplementation. Here the science is a bit less clear: I haven't found any study tying magnesium to bruxism, but there are studies correlating magnesium deficiency with conditions related to bruxism, such as anxiety and muscle tension. In any case I think the risks of magnesium supplementation are low.
I will say that my experience with grinding my teeth stopping was that it probably went away because of changes that were out of my control that made my life much less stressful. But those aren't much good as interventions.
Just inquisitive. How much is a high caffeine intake? What is a reasonable way to size my consumption?
I drink 3 cups of Black coffee every day. 2 after waking up and then 1 in the evening.
Black coffee has been perpetrated as a magic potion by the latest weight loss consultants. It adds to my feel good factor.
I drink 3 cups of Black coffee every day. 2 after waking up and then 1 in the evening.
Black coffee has been perpetrated as a magic potion by the latest weight loss consultants. It adds to my feel good factor.
Well, I don't know enough to answer all your questions with certitude, but I know that for me if I drank a cup of coffee in the evening I would almost certainly grind my teeth that night. I still drink coffee (and a lot more than you) in the mornings but never after 2pm.
I will also add that coffee dehydrates you, which can also be associated with muscle tension and anxiety. So maybe make sure you're drinking enough water (and electrolytes!) as well.
I feel ya on the feel good factor though. It would take some serious side effects for me to want to quit coffee.
I will also add that coffee dehydrates you, which can also be associated with muscle tension and anxiety. So maybe make sure you're drinking enough water (and electrolytes!) as well.
I feel ya on the feel good factor though. It would take some serious side effects for me to want to quit coffee.
> Black coffee has been perpetrated as a magic potion by the latest weight loss consultants. It adds to my feel good factor.
I mean, this is the exact reasoning that hooks people up on amphetamines.
I mean, this is the exact reasoning that hooks people up on amphetamines.
This article suggests that internationally speaking government warnings begin at 200mg of caffeine a day, which you are almost certainly going over. I seriously suggest you do your own deeper research on the health effects of coffee as it is a bit of a mixed bag of health benefits and health risks.
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/10/11/1772/htm
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/10/11/1772/htm
BTW, there's also another angle to consider about coffee: how well you sleep afterwards. I recommend the book ‘Why We Sleep’ by Matthew Walker, it has plenty of info on why deep REM sleep is especially important. (Even though there's some criticism about the book, it still gives a lot of food for thought.)
I haven't seen definitive numbers on how long coffee works, but I'm pretty sure that it's more than the half-hour that Wikipedia claims, and Walker in particular says coffee in the afternoon does affect night's sleep. Personally for me, if I drink three cups in a day, or drink a cup or two for several days straight, then I can feel the effect on the following days—specifically in muscle tension and irritability.
I haven't seen definitive numbers on how long coffee works, but I'm pretty sure that it's more than the half-hour that Wikipedia claims, and Walker in particular says coffee in the afternoon does affect night's sleep. Personally for me, if I drink three cups in a day, or drink a cup or two for several days straight, then I can feel the effect on the following days—specifically in muscle tension and irritability.
I don't think 3 cups is problematic but I'd think twice about the evening one. It takes a while for your body to process the caffeine so you'd likely be falling asleep with elevated concentrations of caffeine in your blood.
"high" intake probably depends on your individual ability to metabolize caffeine, which is different per person. Some people can drink it right before bed, others can't sleep if they had more than 2 cups that day, etc.
> 1. Reducing caffeine intake. The science seems to be fairly conclusive that high caffeine intake is associated with bruxism.
Has the causation been established? It's plausible (perhaps even likely) that people with bruxism consume more caffeine because of sleepiness due to lower quality of sleep.
Has the causation been established? It's plausible (perhaps even likely) that people with bruxism consume more caffeine because of sleepiness due to lower quality of sleep.
Any idea on magnesium dosage? Up to 450 doesn’t seem to do anything for my bruxism.
For me it was definitely stress related. The shittier the job the worse it got. I realize this is not a solution for everyone but what fixed it for me was to leave North America altogether and move to a country in Europe where it doesn’t feel like companies are employee grinding machines, with sustainable work week length and hours expectations, and 6 weeks PTO a year.
OP I would seriously look into reducing stress. Maybe that means scaling down your business, or learning to say no, or getting better work and life habits... I don’t know you so I can’t specifically tell bit id look in that direction.
OP I would seriously look into reducing stress. Maybe that means scaling down your business, or learning to say no, or getting better work and life habits... I don’t know you so I can’t specifically tell bit id look in that direction.
I don't grind my teeth, but one thing I do is that I hold my breath when I'm thinking or doing something irritating like reading bad docs. When I started programming two years ago, I thought that it would be impossible for me to continue because I was stuck too often and didn't breathe. It got a little better since then.
> or doing something irritating like reading bad docs
Not to make light of your situation, but this made me chuckle.
I think earlier in my programming career I suffered a lot of anxiety from imposter syndrome. Learning to let go of that gradually over time has me experiencing a lot less work related anxiety, but I can definitely relate to your experience.
Not to make light of your situation, but this made me chuckle.
I think earlier in my programming career I suffered a lot of anxiety from imposter syndrome. Learning to let go of that gradually over time has me experiencing a lot less work related anxiety, but I can definitely relate to your experience.
You know, I do this. Did you manage to stop? I’ll try to focus on whether I have stopped breathing when concentrating.
I relate so very much to all of this.
I have wear on my teeth from cronic grinding during sleep years ago when I was objectively under huge stress but felt fine . I suggest you write out every possible source of stress you can think of or guess might by in your subconscious past, present ant future. Past e.g. difficult experiences. Present: e.g. financial, relationship. Future: e.g. getting old, sick unable to work. Do this every day expanding on the previous day for a month. I can't say for sure if this stopped my problem but my grinding did stop and never returned.
Interesting. You just wrote them out, no analysis?
And did you use pen + paper, or digital?
And did you use pen + paper, or digital?
I still have the notebook I wrote in but haven't looked in it for years. I feel I would be inhibited if it were digital a notebook feels more private. Yes just write it out no analysis.
I had exactly what you describe, with similar root causes. A 360 degree x-ray showed uneven wear of the jaw bone at the condyles (where lower jaw meets upper jaw)
One set of botox injections into the masseter muscles completely solved this. About $250 (a cosmetic type procedure performed by doctor). It has never returned, it’s been about 3 years.
One set of botox injections into the masseter muscles completely solved this. About $250 (a cosmetic type procedure performed by doctor). It has never returned, it’s been about 3 years.
Botox has some wacky non-cosmetic applications. I've got a friends whose migraines are entirely suppressed by regular Botox injections.
It's entirely possible that your friend's "migraines" are actually the headaches experienced by persons with TMJ (caused by bruxism). I say this as someone who has this condition and was previously misdiagnosed with migraines.
Thanks, had considered that. Were you able to chew normally? And did your face change? My masseters have enlarged since I started clenching ten years ago.
Finally, which sort of doctor do you go to specifically: I’m assuming they need to specialize a bit in botox for bruxism.
Interesting it lasted three years and counting, as botox doesn’t last that long. Presumably your body simply lost the habit. Also interesting about the x ray, I’ll ask my dentist or doctor.
Finally, which sort of doctor do you go to specifically: I’m assuming they need to specialize a bit in botox for bruxism.
Interesting it lasted three years and counting, as botox doesn’t last that long. Presumably your body simply lost the habit. Also interesting about the x ray, I’ll ask my dentist or doctor.
I went to a proper doctor (UK) in Harley St, specialised in a lot of cosmetic procedures. Paid outside of my health insurance it was maybe £200 total.
Botox in the masseter makes your face longer and reduced the squareness of the jawline for cosmetic purposes. I don’t think it’s safe to keep on going back to do it repeatedly, as your jawbone strength and regrowth is maintainer by the compressive forces of chewing and biting.
In my case, I think it was 60/40 physical/mental. I got into a really bad feedback loop of thinking about the jaw and clenching. The botox made it hard to do that, and essentially I “forgot” the feedback loop.
The results were nearly instant; I’d think maybe 24 hours and it stopped.
Botox in the masseter makes your face longer and reduced the squareness of the jawline for cosmetic purposes. I don’t think it’s safe to keep on going back to do it repeatedly, as your jawbone strength and regrowth is maintainer by the compressive forces of chewing and biting.
In my case, I think it was 60/40 physical/mental. I got into a really bad feedback loop of thinking about the jaw and clenching. The botox made it hard to do that, and essentially I “forgot” the feedback loop.
The results were nearly instant; I’d think maybe 24 hours and it stopped.
Wow, thanks. Did the single treatment change your face, or would that only be from repeat visits? And could you chew normally during the period the botox was active?
I've a plump face to begin with, I can't say it made much of a cosmetic difference, possibly made my face appear a bit longer.
The botox dose was so low it didn't have much effect on my jawline, but it did "reset" or "break" the clench-pressure-clench loop which you seem to also suffer from. I found that if I tried to clench my jaw, I couldn't impart the same force as before. The relief and improvement was almost instant. It was injected in about 5 places either side.
If you look up botox + TMJD or TMD you can find info on the medical aspects of botox in the masseter muscles.
I would definitely look at the pillow you use also, if it's too firm it will influence your jaw position when sleeping. I hope this helps you and others reading this!
The botox dose was so low it didn't have much effect on my jawline, but it did "reset" or "break" the clench-pressure-clench loop which you seem to also suffer from. I found that if I tried to clench my jaw, I couldn't impart the same force as before. The relief and improvement was almost instant. It was injected in about 5 places either side.
If you look up botox + TMJD or TMD you can find info on the medical aspects of botox in the masseter muscles.
I would definitely look at the pillow you use also, if it's too firm it will influence your jaw position when sleeping. I hope this helps you and others reading this!
When I was 28, I presented with terrible TMJ pain. Turns out my sleep apnea led to grinding my teeth at night, putting horrible strain on my TMJ all night. Got a mandibular advancement device (MAD) and fixed both issues in like day. Changed my life, slept great, felt great. But, these devices only work for 8-10 years before your jaw permanently changes and your bite starts misaligning toward underbite. So I slowly transitioned over to CPAP when I felt my teeth were no longer snapping back into place in the morning. After 3 years of CPAP and no MAD, my jaw is 95% back to normal. So keep that in mind. I'd also recommend getting a back-up dental appliance in case yours breaks, or learning how to use CPAP now while you don't need it. Some of the worst stress of my life was when my MAD broke and it took months to get a new one...ugh, I still have latent traumatic responses thinking about that point in my life. I had moved jobs and insurance so finding someone who would do it required significant searching. Medical insurance hates paying for MADs, you gotta make sure you have a solid TMJ disorder diagnosis from an MD and then find a dentist that will do it.
Thanks. Reqd of MAD devices. May be worth it as a temporary solution, as long as temp use won’t disturb my jaw.
Do you still use the cpap? And do you think it will be for life or will the issue resolve when your jaw is fixed?
Do you still use the cpap? And do you think it will be for life or will the issue resolve when your jaw is fixed?
Good question. Yes, I still use the CPAP and I really love it. It's not something I even notice when sleeping any longer. The devices are also very quiet now (I use an AirSense10 with heated line and nasal pillows). Combining SleepyHead software to look into the data and with a Dreem sleep device for EEG, it's incredible the quality of sleep I get. I used to also add pulseox data, but I've since stopped since it never fluctuated while using the CPAP correctly. I've also had turbinate and nasal polyp issues my whole life until I began CPAP usage--the filtered, warm, moist air has done wonders for my sinuses, to the point where I avoided surgery.
So to answer your question, no, I got my time with the MAD. I do not expect to be able to go back to it. I view it as a temporary solution in hindsight since around the 8-10 yr mark it will permanently change your jaw. It allowed me freedom to sleep at partners houses and travel, but now that I have kids and stuff, I no longer need the flexibility of the MAD. Plus, I like being able to chew food normally :)
So to answer your question, no, I got my time with the MAD. I do not expect to be able to go back to it. I view it as a temporary solution in hindsight since around the 8-10 yr mark it will permanently change your jaw. It allowed me freedom to sleep at partners houses and travel, but now that I have kids and stuff, I no longer need the flexibility of the MAD. Plus, I like being able to chew food normally :)
I've been reading this book "Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art" by James Nestor. He attributes this sort of thing to, effectively, "mouth breathing", and suggests it can be fixed by learning to breath correctly (through the nose).
I have no idea if it's bullshit or not, but it's compelling. Would love to hear from anyone that has insight into this.
I have no idea if it's bullshit or not, but it's compelling. Would love to hear from anyone that has insight into this.
I can't speak for bruxism link, but mouth breathing is pretty awful. You're completely bypassing the filtering that goes on in the nose, the air conditioning (temperature and humidity), and gas exchange in the paranasal sinuses (nitric oxide). In addition, you're more likely to overbreathe through your mouth.
I never used to grid the teeth but in last 6 years due to work stress I put on weight, sleeping cycle got messed up and just last year in may my dentist told me that I grind my teeth. I tried the mouth guard for few months which seemed to work. But these things are expensive. 6 months back I was also diagnosed with sleep apnea so the sleep specialist suggested CPAP. Surprisingly with the CPAP machine I have completely stopped grinding my teeth. It makes me wonder that teeth grinding is highly correlated to breathing and quality of sleep.
> It makes me wonder that teeth grinding is highly correlated to breathing and quality of sleep.
I'm a respiratory therapist and grinding is highly common with sleep apnea. Basically, the brain stimulates the jaw to try and move in an attempt to open the airway when it's not getting enough oxygen. Losing weight, getting tonsils out (if you still have them), fixing a deviated septum and soft tissue removal (basically, an ENT does a rotor rooter to the upper throat area) or surgery to bring the jaw forward all can help.
60% of the time, losing 30-40lbs will correct it for the majority of people grinding. CPAP helps immensely as well.
I'm a respiratory therapist and grinding is highly common with sleep apnea. Basically, the brain stimulates the jaw to try and move in an attempt to open the airway when it's not getting enough oxygen. Losing weight, getting tonsils out (if you still have them), fixing a deviated septum and soft tissue removal (basically, an ENT does a rotor rooter to the upper throat area) or surgery to bring the jaw forward all can help.
60% of the time, losing 30-40lbs will correct it for the majority of people grinding. CPAP helps immensely as well.
I’m quite skinny already, but definitely don’t feel refreshed after sleep.
I visited an ENT once for chronic fatigue. I was told that I had a slightly deviated septum from a possible childhood injury, but surgical correction was optional. Do you think it would be worth fixing? I’m apprehensive about going under a knife.
I currently only breathe through one nostril at a time, but the one I breathe from changes randomly.
I visited an ENT once for chronic fatigue. I was told that I had a slightly deviated septum from a possible childhood injury, but surgical correction was optional. Do you think it would be worth fixing? I’m apprehensive about going under a knife.
I currently only breathe through one nostril at a time, but the one I breathe from changes randomly.
> I currently only breathe through one nostril at a time, but the one I breathe from changes randomly.
This is normal: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_cycle
This is normal: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_cycle
I suffered the same thing (deviated septum runs in the family it seems). I just got the septoplasty and a turbinate reduction done (3 weeks ago) and even though I'm not fully recovered I can already breathe better than ever before. The recovery was also very easy. I highly, highly recommend it.
do you breathe through both nostrils now? how bad was your deviated septum?
your procedure sounds terrifying, and I’d prefer to do something minimally invasive if possible. I wonder if you can do a septoplasty via physical realignment rather than cutting anything open.
your procedure sounds terrifying, and I’d prefer to do something minimally invasive if possible. I wonder if you can do a septoplasty via physical realignment rather than cutting anything open.
I can! And previously could not. The process isn't bad, and isn't terribly invasive. I had a sore nose for a few days, took Tylenol to recover, and was back at work 4 days later (sat, sun, Monday off, Tuesday half capacity, Wednesday back in full). Got the stents out Thursday.
My surgeon characterized my septum as "not the worst he's ever seen but definitely not minor". If you're around Seattle, it was Chris Yang at Swedish who did it.
My surgeon characterized my septum as "not the worst he's ever seen but definitely not minor". If you're around Seattle, it was Chris Yang at Swedish who did it.
Would losing 5-10 pounds make any difference in some edge cases? With ten pounds off I would have a six pack, 15 at most.
For those considering mouth guards, they're expensive only if you buy them from the dentist. They cost about $10 each in packs of two from Amazon. You fit them yourself by heating them up in hot water. Unless you're really shredding it at night, and you take care of it by brushing it when you brush your teeth in the morning, each one can last at least a year.
Two things has greatly reduced it and it resulted in a significant change in general QOL for me;
1. bite guard when sleeping.
2. jaw relaxation exercise program.
I have a malocclusion however. So ymmv perhaps.
Ask your dentist for a jaw relax program. It's just 5-6 simple exercises you do with your jaw, (I could upload a copy of my pdf if you'd like).
Something I'm looking into now is myofunctional training/exersices (haven't tried yet). The "science" on it doesn't seem 100% yet, and mostly promoted by one company. Thoughts?
Edit: forgot to mention that physiotherapy helped immensely as well. I had poor posture/forward tilting head, which i believe i feel into due to my malocclusion. Perhaps be wary of aches/bad alignment/discomfort in neck and shoulders and see whether physio for that could help alleviate.
I have a malocclusion however. So ymmv perhaps.
Ask your dentist for a jaw relax program. It's just 5-6 simple exercises you do with your jaw, (I could upload a copy of my pdf if you'd like).
Something I'm looking into now is myofunctional training/exersices (haven't tried yet). The "science" on it doesn't seem 100% yet, and mostly promoted by one company. Thoughts?
Edit: forgot to mention that physiotherapy helped immensely as well. I had poor posture/forward tilting head, which i believe i feel into due to my malocclusion. Perhaps be wary of aches/bad alignment/discomfort in neck and shoulders and see whether physio for that could help alleviate.
Would like to see the jaw exercises PDF if you'd be willing to share.
there are several;
https://www.mah.se/fakulteter-och-omraden/Odontologiska-faku...
I'm using the first one. Pardon the swedish but pictures/google translate should sort things out. That's from a orofacial pain dept at a swedish uni
https://www.mah.se/fakulteter-och-omraden/Odontologiska-faku...
I'm using the first one. Pardon the swedish but pictures/google translate should sort things out. That's from a orofacial pain dept at a swedish uni
Would love the pdf
1. try lots of night guards, don’t stop just when you find one you can sleep with. Some offer even more comfort, etc. that can reduce clenching or soreness beyond just preventing grinding.
2. muscle relaxers if your doctor thinks it can help.
3. reducing stress
4. improve sleep posture and quality of bedding
5. establish rigorous sleep habits, like when you stop eating at night, when you stop using devices, adequate darkness, temperature control
No solution is guaranteed, it will be different for everyone. For me personally the main thing was trying many night guards even after finding one I could sleep with.
The most frustrating thing for me is that clenching recurs with work stress. I’ve talked to endless doctors and counselors about it, basically nothing anyone can do to help.
2. muscle relaxers if your doctor thinks it can help.
3. reducing stress
4. improve sleep posture and quality of bedding
5. establish rigorous sleep habits, like when you stop eating at night, when you stop using devices, adequate darkness, temperature control
No solution is guaranteed, it will be different for everyone. For me personally the main thing was trying many night guards even after finding one I could sleep with.
The most frustrating thing for me is that clenching recurs with work stress. I’ve talked to endless doctors and counselors about it, basically nothing anyone can do to help.
Hey, I used to struggle with jaw clenching, nonstop. My masseters were huge, I looked something like a chipmunk and by the time I found a solution I was having continuous daily pain. I realized I needed help when one day I caught myself rocking back and forth just to cope with how much pain I was in. Saw multiple specialists at several different hospitals.
Full-stop, the most helpful thing was physical therapy. The process itself was super painful, there were exercises we did involving pinching the muscle and me opening my jaw which were easily some of the most piercing moments of my life. There were also these metal scraping things we used which would leave my whole face red and inflamed for many hours. But I would walk away from a session feeling like my muscles were looser.
I think it took about 3 months to get to the point where I was no longer in continuous pain at home. About 6 months (and several thousand dollars of PT - $70 three times a week adds up) until I was comfortable dropping PT.
Two other things that helped, though difficult to know exactly how much:
1. Braces. I had braces a second time in my 20's because it was supposed to help. I think in the end they weren't necessary and PT alone would have been enough. Certainly the pain was gone long before the braces were gone. But my teeth are straight again, so I guess that's a win.
2. An awareness app that beeped at me every 15 minutes. The beep meant "check your jaw, put some space between your teeth (like 1mm) and unclench your muscles". Over time I was able to gain awareness and control over all the muscles in my face and neck and forcibly relax them. I don't think this would have been effective without the PT, my muscles were locked into place when I started PT and it was only the PT that got them loose again.
If I were to start struggling with this issue again, I'd go back to PT and I'd set up a 15 minute beeper again.
Can't stress enough how much PT helped. Through the 6 months, we ended up targeting probably every muscle group from the shoulders up. They were all tense together, and there's no way I would have found all of those muscles on my own, nor identified how much they worked together in causing all the clenching. It really was a whole-face-and-neck problem.
Full-stop, the most helpful thing was physical therapy. The process itself was super painful, there were exercises we did involving pinching the muscle and me opening my jaw which were easily some of the most piercing moments of my life. There were also these metal scraping things we used which would leave my whole face red and inflamed for many hours. But I would walk away from a session feeling like my muscles were looser.
I think it took about 3 months to get to the point where I was no longer in continuous pain at home. About 6 months (and several thousand dollars of PT - $70 three times a week adds up) until I was comfortable dropping PT.
Two other things that helped, though difficult to know exactly how much:
1. Braces. I had braces a second time in my 20's because it was supposed to help. I think in the end they weren't necessary and PT alone would have been enough. Certainly the pain was gone long before the braces were gone. But my teeth are straight again, so I guess that's a win.
2. An awareness app that beeped at me every 15 minutes. The beep meant "check your jaw, put some space between your teeth (like 1mm) and unclench your muscles". Over time I was able to gain awareness and control over all the muscles in my face and neck and forcibly relax them. I don't think this would have been effective without the PT, my muscles were locked into place when I started PT and it was only the PT that got them loose again.
If I were to start struggling with this issue again, I'd go back to PT and I'd set up a 15 minute beeper again.
Can't stress enough how much PT helped. Through the 6 months, we ended up targeting probably every muscle group from the shoulders up. They were all tense together, and there's no way I would have found all of those muscles on my own, nor identified how much they worked together in causing all the clenching. It really was a whole-face-and-neck problem.
Hmm, I tried PT, but not so intensively. I had been about to target it specifically again before covid hit. Once the pandemic passes I will try this. Thanks!
Do you remember the awareness app?
Do you remember the awareness app?
> My masseters were huge
I wonder how perception of one's own face changes the way people seek treatment for bruxism. A lot of men would view large masseters as a good thing in their own face.
I wonder how perception of one's own face changes the way people seek treatment for bruxism. A lot of men would view large masseters as a good thing in their own face.
Yes! In my case was just a matter of head position on the pillow + stress. With half head on the pillow and half off, my jaw was hanging and I unconsciously tightened my teeth all nigh long in order to keep my mouth closed. Problem solved after 2 months of hell and 2 dentists, the first of which wanted to remove my perfectly sane wisdom teeth. Also, dedicating more time to extra work activities, instead of work, helped a lot.
What position did you settle on? And you mean tidying loose ends in live outside work, right?
About 10 years ago I slept with a headband my dentist recommended that could detect clenching and would beep. It would wake me up just enough to stop clenching. It was horrible sleep but worked after awhile and I stopped clenching at night and didn’t need the headband anymore. I still sleep with a nightguard regardless. Don’t remember the name of the headband, sorry. I got rid of it years ago.
That sounds like SleepGuard: https://mysleepguard.com/
Did you use it? I couldn’t get it to work previously, but have bought some electrode gel to try it again.
Yes. It worked fine for me and appeared to help a lot, though with a sample of 1 it’s hard to say. I can say that reducing (but nowhere near eliminating…) stress and using SleepGuard ended nighttime grinding many years ago and that SG reliably beeped anytime mouth tension occurred. Arguably the root cause was a bad bite, which I later fixed with Invisalign.
For OP, I’d definitely recommend at least trying it. I’d also suggest a taking a 1-2 month mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR) class. Finally, if you get a night guard, try to get it from an orthodontist rather than a dentist. They take much more accurate impressions (often 3D scans now), know more about jaw mechanics, and may have access to more guard/retainer materials (like clear plastic liners).
For OP, I’d definitely recommend at least trying it. I’d also suggest a taking a 1-2 month mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR) class. Finally, if you get a night guard, try to get it from an orthodontist rather than a dentist. They take much more accurate impressions (often 3D scans now), know more about jaw mechanics, and may have access to more guard/retainer materials (like clear plastic liners).
Take my argument with a grain of salt. I'm not an expert. But, if nothing helped you. I can give you my experience.
What really helped me. I went from grinding a lot to almost nothing. Was, I fixed my teeth. My front teeth was a bit worn out from acid drinking and food taking. Though, they looked quite normal. My problem was that my teeth where porous. Acid always slipped into to the pores, which cause my teeths to hurt(more like itching, think like a small scratch whom). Not even brushing my teeths or washing them with listerin helped, because the acid slipped very deep into the pores. Dentists couldn't see from any xray scan what was wrong, so they refused to give me any treatment that would remove some parts of the teeth. It took me a lot of effort to convince a dentist to get me something that almost resembles a teeth crown(it was more like a filling). After getting these teeth crowns, me and my wife have not noticed any teeth grinding since.
I'm beginning to suspect whether bruxism is caused by the body's reflex to tooth ache? Note, I have amateur researched this topic a lot and I don't quite bought the argument of stress, but I was pretty convinced about the argument of the body's reaction to insufficient oxygen. But, I didn't quite bought this argument either. Because, if we worn out our teeth, it would be naturally deselected by Darwin's law a long time ago. Since, we would have a small deficiency of chewing. And it would be strange if only humans did tooth grinding and not other animals? But, what we humans have been doing a bit more recently is having an increased acid consumption, which lead to my argument if bruxism is just a reflex to tooth ache?
Note, there are treatment like (epoxy??) that can fill the pores, though it didn't helped with my ache. Once, the tooth ache was gone, so was my teeth grinding.
What really helped me. I went from grinding a lot to almost nothing. Was, I fixed my teeth. My front teeth was a bit worn out from acid drinking and food taking. Though, they looked quite normal. My problem was that my teeth where porous. Acid always slipped into to the pores, which cause my teeths to hurt(more like itching, think like a small scratch whom). Not even brushing my teeths or washing them with listerin helped, because the acid slipped very deep into the pores. Dentists couldn't see from any xray scan what was wrong, so they refused to give me any treatment that would remove some parts of the teeth. It took me a lot of effort to convince a dentist to get me something that almost resembles a teeth crown(it was more like a filling). After getting these teeth crowns, me and my wife have not noticed any teeth grinding since.
I'm beginning to suspect whether bruxism is caused by the body's reflex to tooth ache? Note, I have amateur researched this topic a lot and I don't quite bought the argument of stress, but I was pretty convinced about the argument of the body's reaction to insufficient oxygen. But, I didn't quite bought this argument either. Because, if we worn out our teeth, it would be naturally deselected by Darwin's law a long time ago. Since, we would have a small deficiency of chewing. And it would be strange if only humans did tooth grinding and not other animals? But, what we humans have been doing a bit more recently is having an increased acid consumption, which lead to my argument if bruxism is just a reflex to tooth ache?
Note, there are treatment like (epoxy??) that can fill the pores, though it didn't helped with my ache. Once, the tooth ache was gone, so was my teeth grinding.
Try this from my experience. During the day, you may not notice, sometimes you would clench your teeth slightly, that’s why you may not notice it. When ever you start to notice, open your month wide a few time for a few seconds. And keep doing that, it helped to reverse habits. Would take a while to reverse the longer you had it, but be persistent.
Thanks! Did your nighttime bruxism stop completely?
I caught it early because I notice my jaw was tired of in the morning. And it slowly stopped but it came and went, but eventually it did stop. Just try to be very conscious about even the slightest clenches and fight it. Took a couple weeks or months.
I’m giving it a shot. Neat idea, basically trying to condition a reflex/pattern of motion while awake, since we can’t in sleep.
I use an NTI: https://nationaldentex.com/products/headache-therapy/nti-tss...
Well, two actually; one of the top and one on the bottom. It prevents the jaw from clenching at night.
Well, two actually; one of the top and one on the bottom. It prevents the jaw from clenching at night.
Same here. I have the impression that it has improved by
a) having a softer pillow.
b) having a hard guard. Before that I had a gummy-like guard. According to the new dentist the was making the bruxism worse.
a) having a softer pillow.
b) having a hard guard. Before that I had a gummy-like guard. According to the new dentist the was making the bruxism worse.
Did they say why soft guard made it worse? And did you sto or just have less pain?
What they said is that if it's gummy, it will induce you to chew during the night. They claimed that the only approved one was hard, but I didn't verify that.
I have less pain. But I won't risk sleeping without it
I have less pain. But I won't risk sleeping without it
One counterintuitive thing to consider: poor air quality and allergies can contribute to bruxism by making it more difficult to breathe thru your nose. I fixed my allergies via immunotherapy and air quality via a filter and my bruxism dropped dramatically.
So I clench my jaw and infrequently wake up gasping for air (like once a month). Does anyone have any recommendations for a sleep study at home to determine sleep apnea? I don’t feel comfortable going to a hospital right now to get a proper study done.
Sleep studies are often done at home now using a device you get and then bring back the next day. It has a finger VO2 sensor, snoring sensor, and you attach it to your chest to detect breathing. Contact your physician.
Wait that’s it? I could probably rig that up myself. Just a pulse oximeter and a sound recording, not more?
Look, there are two ways to approach this.
1) Physical source
The source could be physical, so you should go to an orthodontist to get a professional perspective. I've heard of people doing a minor surgery to solve the problem.
2) Emotional source
The source could also be emotional, as you mentioned. Then, you should seek professional help (from a therapist) to learn how to deal with the stress you are feeling. This could mean simply rewiring how you deal with stress, exercising more often or take medicine.
Sometimes, you simply need to pay attention to how physically tense you are due to work and try to relax your whole body.
I suffer from the bruxism as well and I got significantly better by going to therapy.
1) Physical source
The source could be physical, so you should go to an orthodontist to get a professional perspective. I've heard of people doing a minor surgery to solve the problem.
2) Emotional source
The source could also be emotional, as you mentioned. Then, you should seek professional help (from a therapist) to learn how to deal with the stress you are feeling. This could mean simply rewiring how you deal with stress, exercising more often or take medicine.
Sometimes, you simply need to pay attention to how physically tense you are due to work and try to relax your whole body.
I suffer from the bruxism as well and I got significantly better by going to therapy.
Thanks! How does therapy help?
My stress seems to manifest mainly by muscle tension. I don’t really have what you would describe as anxious thoughts.
I’ve managed to reduce stress by focussing on my breathe, and relaxing certain muscles if I notice them tensing. This seems to happen when I’m deep in thought.
But I don’t really worry about things, have racing thoughts, or anything like that. Can therapy help this kind of situation?
My stress seems to manifest mainly by muscle tension. I don’t really have what you would describe as anxious thoughts.
I’ve managed to reduce stress by focussing on my breathe, and relaxing certain muscles if I notice them tensing. This seems to happen when I’m deep in thought.
But I don’t really worry about things, have racing thoughts, or anything like that. Can therapy help this kind of situation?
> "I don’t really have what you would describe as anxious thoughts."
Dr David Burns (Cognitive Behavioural Therapist) talks about this in some of his Feeling Good podcast episodes, patients who say they don't have anxious thoughts. His position is that they do[1], but they aren't aware of them.
One of his ways to identify them, is to get the patient to identify a specific time or event when they were anxious and tense (e.g. walking into a meeting, etc.), and draw a cartoon character in the same situation with a thought bubble, and then has the patient come up with any reasons why somebody - anybody - in that same situation might possibly be feeling anxious about anything. They do.
"... and are you feeling any of those things?" "yes, that's exactly how I'm feeling".
He's described it at least twice in different episodes, as a very simple but effective way to dig out the thoughts people have, that they aren't aware of having.
[1] His approach to therapy is based on the idea that life events lead to thoughts which create moods; people who have unhelpful thoughts get stuck in unbalanced moods; methods to identify and change the thoughts is what changes moods and "cures" people.
Dr David Burns (Cognitive Behavioural Therapist) talks about this in some of his Feeling Good podcast episodes, patients who say they don't have anxious thoughts. His position is that they do[1], but they aren't aware of them.
One of his ways to identify them, is to get the patient to identify a specific time or event when they were anxious and tense (e.g. walking into a meeting, etc.), and draw a cartoon character in the same situation with a thought bubble, and then has the patient come up with any reasons why somebody - anybody - in that same situation might possibly be feeling anxious about anything. They do.
"... and are you feeling any of those things?" "yes, that's exactly how I'm feeling".
He's described it at least twice in different episodes, as a very simple but effective way to dig out the thoughts people have, that they aren't aware of having.
[1] His approach to therapy is based on the idea that life events lead to thoughts which create moods; people who have unhelpful thoughts get stuck in unbalanced moods; methods to identify and change the thoughts is what changes moods and "cures" people.
Awesome example! Thank you
I'm not an expert, but therapy helps in understanding why we react the way we react.
It could help you answer:
- What I feel when I'm deep in thought?
- Why I manifest muscle tension in those periods?
I would give it a try for 3-4 months.
It could help you answer:
- What I feel when I'm deep in thought?
- Why I manifest muscle tension in those periods?
I would give it a try for 3-4 months.
I’m surprised no one on here has mentioned CO2 levels yet. A simple CO2 monitor will tell you if your ambient co2levels are too high. Modern, newer homes are like sealed boxes and high levels can exacerbate breathing issues and by extension, bruxism problems.
I was waking up with headaches after moving into a new apartment. When I first got and plugged in a monitor the alarm went off because the ambient air was >3000ppm. Now that I’ve correct the issue with airflow, I sleep better and don’t wake up with headaches.
I was waking up with headaches after moving into a new apartment. When I first got and plugged in a monitor the alarm went off because the ambient air was >3000ppm. Now that I’ve correct the issue with airflow, I sleep better and don’t wake up with headaches.
do you have any co2 monitor recommendations? the ones on amazon are around $150
https://amzn.to/2ZlI0EU
This one is good. The company that makes it co2meter.com is awesome and was helpful as I was learning more.
I went down a bit of a rabbit hole in general air quality after that. I ended up with the uHoo monitor. It’s a pricey but great.
This one is good. The company that makes it co2meter.com is awesome and was helpful as I was learning more.
I went down a bit of a rabbit hole in general air quality after that. I ended up with the uHoo monitor. It’s a pricey but great.
Not my issue unfortunately. I already track co2, and the levels are around 500 presently. Thanks for the suggestion though!
I recently finished a popular dental alignment program, where you have to wear aligner trays in your mouth for 22 hours a day. It solved my clenching problem, but I’m not sure why. I suspect it’s because the aligners created a Small gap between my bottom and top teeth, which is making it very hard to clench now. With the aligners on, clenching became very uncomfortable too because you feel like you’re going to snap the damn things.
Probably a bit of a stretch to pursue dental aligners to fix your bruxism, but hey!
Probably a bit of a stretch to pursue dental aligners to fix your bruxism, but hey!
Actually yes, when it was quite an issue I made sure I sleep on a high pillow. Just by mechanics it's more difficult to chew on your teeth. Also back then I only slept on either multiple pillows or thick pillows that are meant for sofas to have the head higher, just by mechanics it's more difficult to chew. Also I started the habit to eat chewing gum regularly, it makes the jaw muscles more tired at night. And, holding your head up high during the day helps. Especially when sitting on the computer, I highly recommend using an external screen, so your head is straight.
That in combination was already a game changer.
Also I started the habit to do light sports at least once a week, although that was mostly because of back pain. The bruxism practically vanished after I went to the psychologist to treat my anxiety. It was a treatment without pills, just talking and learning new methods. In my case it was a Systemic Therapy (I think combined with CBT - though I'm not sure) but YMMV and I think you need to choose someone you're comfortable with. For me the priority was to pick someone that I'm comfortable with, that seems to be specialized in what I think might be the overall issue and that seems to adhere to modern methods. Whenever I feel tense when going to sleep, I do Progressive Muscle Relaxation (PMR) which was a recommendation from the Psychologist. There are audios on the internet which guide you through this, takes 10-15 minutes but now I just do it myself in 2 minutes. It's kind of a non-issue for me now, I cannot remember the last time I woke up with my teeth hurting because of that, the last series must have been years ago.
That in combination was already a game changer.
Also I started the habit to do light sports at least once a week, although that was mostly because of back pain. The bruxism practically vanished after I went to the psychologist to treat my anxiety. It was a treatment without pills, just talking and learning new methods. In my case it was a Systemic Therapy (I think combined with CBT - though I'm not sure) but YMMV and I think you need to choose someone you're comfortable with. For me the priority was to pick someone that I'm comfortable with, that seems to be specialized in what I think might be the overall issue and that seems to adhere to modern methods. Whenever I feel tense when going to sleep, I do Progressive Muscle Relaxation (PMR) which was a recommendation from the Psychologist. There are audios on the internet which guide you through this, takes 10-15 minutes but now I just do it myself in 2 minutes. It's kind of a non-issue for me now, I cannot remember the last time I woke up with my teeth hurting because of that, the last series must have been years ago.
Opposite experience here with the chewing gum.
My dentist noticed some wear on my molars right around the time I started experiencing a bunch of minor issues: xerostomia (dry mouth), excessive salivation (strange to have at the same time as xerostomia), jaw fatigue, teeth clenching during the day, and an abnormal awareness of the position of my tongue in my mouth. These were among the many low-priority bugs I'd filed against my body as I was recovering from chemotherapy.
I started chewing gum to help control the xerostomia, and it became a habit. Over time, I believe I actually strengthened my jaw muscles enough to make the bruxism worse, leading to a vicious cycle of needing gum chewing to alleviate the discomfort from constant jaw clenching. This went on for many years.
About a year ago, after changing nearly everything about my daily routine to narrow down the cause, I stopped chewing gum, cold turkey. I replaced it with Tic-Tacs, resolving never to chew them. After a couple months I gave them up, too. While the bruxism and jaw clenching occasionally come back during times of work stress, it no longer seems to be a chronic condition, and my mind has restored enough muscle memory of what a normal mouth feels like that when I notice it's coming back, I can will myself back into a comfortable state again.
Hard to say whether the gum really was to blame. but for me, when I stopped was when I regained control.
My dentist noticed some wear on my molars right around the time I started experiencing a bunch of minor issues: xerostomia (dry mouth), excessive salivation (strange to have at the same time as xerostomia), jaw fatigue, teeth clenching during the day, and an abnormal awareness of the position of my tongue in my mouth. These were among the many low-priority bugs I'd filed against my body as I was recovering from chemotherapy.
I started chewing gum to help control the xerostomia, and it became a habit. Over time, I believe I actually strengthened my jaw muscles enough to make the bruxism worse, leading to a vicious cycle of needing gum chewing to alleviate the discomfort from constant jaw clenching. This went on for many years.
About a year ago, after changing nearly everything about my daily routine to narrow down the cause, I stopped chewing gum, cold turkey. I replaced it with Tic-Tacs, resolving never to chew them. After a couple months I gave them up, too. While the bruxism and jaw clenching occasionally come back during times of work stress, it no longer seems to be a chronic condition, and my mind has restored enough muscle memory of what a normal mouth feels like that when I notice it's coming back, I can will myself back into a comfortable state again.
Hard to say whether the gum really was to blame. but for me, when I stopped was when I regained control.
Probably not relevant to OP, but FWIW bruxism is often associated with sleep apnea. If you grind at night and are tired during the day, get a sleep study.
Thanks! I had actually asked my doctor for a home test. (Lab tests currently impractical due to pandemic). We’ll see what the results are.
I don't know whether you've been told that lab tests are currently impractical or whether you're just assuming, but if it's the latter, I would definitely ask before assuming that they're impractical. Medical professionals are better equipped to keep you safe than your local supermarket, and it may be that the local sleep lab is nowhere near places treating covid patients. I haven't heard this specifically about sleep labs, but I've heard this from friends who were putting off a few other medical procedures and were advised not to by doctors. It's at least worth calling the sleep lab and finding out what protective measures they're taking.
It may be that you're well-informed already and it really is impractical, in which case I hope I didn't offend you. It's just that my impression is right now a lot of people are putting off treatment unnecessarily due to covid concerns.
It may be that you're well-informed already and it really is impractical, in which case I hope I didn't offend you. It's just that my impression is right now a lot of people are putting off treatment unnecessarily due to covid concerns.
Related: sleep apnea is incredibly common and underdiagnosed, and strongly related to dental health and bruxism:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23435964
The sleep test is definitely worth doing. However keep in mind that if they say you don't have it, then it doesn't mean you won't.
To find out why, see the "Jaws" book I mentioned in that thread.
Anecdote: I told my neighbor she had sleep apnea. She got a sleep test from Kaiser, and Kaiser told her she didn't have it. Two years later, her dentist recommended the mouth guard for bruxism.
Neither the dentist or Kaiser seem to understand that sleep apnea and bruxism are related. But it's obvious to me that she went untreated for 2 years and the symptom became worse.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23435964
The sleep test is definitely worth doing. However keep in mind that if they say you don't have it, then it doesn't mean you won't.
To find out why, see the "Jaws" book I mentioned in that thread.
Anecdote: I told my neighbor she had sleep apnea. She got a sleep test from Kaiser, and Kaiser told her she didn't have it. Two years later, her dentist recommended the mouth guard for bruxism.
Neither the dentist or Kaiser seem to understand that sleep apnea and bruxism are related. But it's obvious to me that she went untreated for 2 years and the symptom became worse.
In my experience teeth grinding is cause by too much coffee and alcohol. My clenching/grinding always eases up when I abstain from those
After I lost faith in western medicine's ability to help me with this problem I started tinkering and have come to the conclusion it's related to my breathing problems: mild sleep apnea and sinus inflammation.
The first thing I did was start sleeping predominantly on my sides and stomach, which turns out is how people sleep in nature[1]. This made my apnea all but disappear.
Then after I noticed my sinuses react to dietary changes I went on a carnivore diet -- basically only meat -- for an extended period of time and my sinuses fully cleared up. Right now I deviate from the diet a bit but I remain cautious and it's working out well.
When my breathing improved my clenching subsided.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1119282/
The first thing I did was start sleeping predominantly on my sides and stomach, which turns out is how people sleep in nature[1]. This made my apnea all but disappear.
Then after I noticed my sinuses react to dietary changes I went on a carnivore diet -- basically only meat -- for an extended period of time and my sinuses fully cleared up. Right now I deviate from the diet a bit but I remain cautious and it's working out well.
When my breathing improved my clenching subsided.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1119282/
Very curious about your all-meat diet in general, if you'd care to share. It's basically an elimination/mono diet. What staples do you rely on, what supplements do you need, how has it been for you, etc.?
Yes it's a great elimination diet but there is a growing community that just stay on it as a lifestyle because you could feel so good.
Turns out animal-based food has all the nutrients you need if you include offal like liver (a serving of liver has more vitamin C than an apple). I ate mostly Ribeyes and liver. Sometimes I had yogurt but if you're eliminating to find allergens I would cut dairy at first.
I recommend this book https://www.amazon.com/dp/1734640707/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_jp...
Turns out animal-based food has all the nutrients you need if you include offal like liver (a serving of liver has more vitamin C than an apple). I ate mostly Ribeyes and liver. Sometimes I had yogurt but if you're eliminating to find allergens I would cut dairy at first.
I recommend this book https://www.amazon.com/dp/1734640707/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_jp...
liver tastes horrible. any preparation methods? or could you avoid this with vitC supplementation?
I'm from Jordan so we grew up eating liver raw and cooked so I'm okay with the taste. Chicken liver is a lot milder. And I know some people prefer liver pate.
I don't know if you can supplement, I've never used them.
I don't know if you can supplement, I've never used them.
why carnivore instead of vegetarian/veganism?
have you considered that you feel better because you’re avoiding an allergen, not because of the all-meat diet?
have you considered that you feel better because you’re avoiding an allergen, not because of the all-meat diet?
To construct a nutritionally adequate vegan diet would require a lot of work and a lot of ingredients, which is the opposite of elimination.
doesn’t sleeping on your stomach cause back problems?
In “Treat Your Own Back” (https://www.amazon.com/Treat-Your-Back-Robin-McKenzie/dp/098...), the author—a physiotherapist—accidentally leaves a back pain patient face down on an examination table with their back slightly hyperextended (i.e. head and upper back slightly above prone position). They were horrified that they’d harmed the patient, but instead the patient felt completely relieved of their pain. This is the story of how the McKenzie method (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKenzie_method) was discovered. Lying prone is the core position of the method (in addition to progressive back extensions), and it actually works surprisingly well for me.
I don't think so.
I suffered from mild bruxism about 10 years ago and have had several bouts of TMJD where I couldn’t close one side of my jaw. For me, the key has been poor posture induced by stress; these bouts coincide with heavy laptop and mobile phone use (neck angle forward and down). What fixed it for me was switching to a good desktop set-up whenever possible and self-treatment via Kelly Starrett’s Becoming A Supple Leopard (there is whole section in the second edition on neck and jaw). He has good general advice in this video as well - https://youtu.be/kfg_e6YG37U
I haven’t used the mouthguard now in probably 5 or more years.
I haven’t used the mouthguard now in probably 5 or more years.
Hey, pretty much got over dealing with this on-off for 2.5 years due to a combination of depression, stress and a herniated disk in my neck. For the physical side, you gotta see a PT - the neck especially could take a while to see progress. Even simple PT exercises initially aggravated the issue, go real slow and at your own pace. It's taken me 3 months of consistent PT to sleep pain-free. For the mental side, I recommend a therapist and mindfulness/meditation.
Learning to sleep on my back was really important too - I used to roll over onto my stomach a bunch - get a sleep study done if you can
Learning to sleep on my back was really important too - I used to roll over onto my stomach a bunch - get a sleep study done if you can
TIL that this thing had a name. I used to clench my teeth unconsciously for around two years, until one day I broke a premolar. The reason was mostly anxiety, unhappiness, etc. I was aware of my mental state but completely unaware of the clenching. Surprisingly (or not) focusing on the clenching helped me relax my jaw as well as my mind. Kinda like what is taught in Vipassana ... just trying to be mindful of what the body is doing helped me get out. I still find myself clenching my jaw some times, but I quickly relax when I do.
EDIT: added a missing "body _is doing_"
EDIT: added a missing "body _is doing_"
Possibly look into "mewing" i.e. orthotropics which deals with proper oral posture, breathing, and swallowing.
You could also try just putting your tongue on the roof of your mouth when your mouth is closed (which is what you should be doing anyways). Your tongue is actually what is supposed to help get your jaw to stay up with a suction hold against the roof of your mouth, and if you don't have your tongue in that position then you will have to use only your jaw muscles which can cause to much pressure.
You could also try just putting your tongue on the roof of your mouth when your mouth is closed (which is what you should be doing anyways). Your tongue is actually what is supposed to help get your jaw to stay up with a suction hold against the roof of your mouth, and if you don't have your tongue in that position then you will have to use only your jaw muscles which can cause to much pressure.
When I developed a clenching habit, I resolved it by training myself to put my tongue in the correct position in my mouth. It is pretty simple: with your lips closed but your teeth not touching, place the tip of your tongue right where your gums and your two top front teeth meet. That's it. At first it takes effort but once the habit and muscle memory develops it'll happen naturally. This eliminated my bruxism because now my jaw has a healthy resting state.
A previous dentist recommended -- paradoxically -- actually clenching your teath consciously a few times for a few seconds each time before going to sleep. The logic for this was something like how it would make your brain more conscious of what was going on to prevent it from happening when you were asleep. I think the other suggestions here on reducing stress, reducing weight, getting enough magnesium and so on might work better though?
Did it work for you?
If you have not seen a doctor, do so. Dentists are not MDs. They can help you fix or prevent damage caused by grinding but they are not qualified to diagnose or treat the cause despite what they may tell you.
Also don't take medical advice from strangers on the Internet (or request it, because you just end up helping to generate more insidious noise that will show up in search results for decades).
Also don't take medical advice from strangers on the Internet (or request it, because you just end up helping to generate more insidious noise that will show up in search results for decades).
My doctor told me to ask a dentist iirc
I don't know anything about this particular ailment. But look at the literature for fixing your posture. That also involves changing what your body is doing at rest while you are not paying attention.
Some of the principles involved in changing your posture (often involving which muscles are kept relaxed and which stretched) might very well apply to helping you relax your jaw muscles.
Some of the principles involved in changing your posture (often involving which muscles are kept relaxed and which stretched) might very well apply to helping you relax your jaw muscles.
[deleted]
A proper mouth guard will prevent your jaw from closing 100% and will unprogram the clinching behavior.
Mine is triggered by: caffeine after 1 pm, cold sleeping conditions, sustained stress like job stress or family health stress. Maybe related to acid reflux. Also I sleep on my back to keep force off my jaw. Probably more and maybe related to congestion, too.
I recently got a mouthguard that sits on my bottom set of teeth and prevents me from closing my jaw entirely, which I wear while sleeping. It helps a lot. I wake up with my jaw muscles feeling loose rather than tight and tender.
Read some of Alexander Lowen's books, he talks about how posture can actually be an indication of something going on emotionally in the person. When people clench their jaw they're said to be grinding through life.
Yes. Cause was stomach gas. How can you belch when asleep? Not properly, at least in my case, and manifestation was bruxism.
Fix was of course, a change of eating habits. Specifically, to work around FODMAP intolerance.
Fix was of course, a change of eating habits. Specifically, to work around FODMAP intolerance.
Also worth noting that bruxism is correlated with gut dysbiosis and parasitic gut infections which may be otherwise hard to pin down. In my case bruxism was a notable symptom of the severity of my SIBO—an infiltration of the small intestine with pathogenic bacteria. It's an incredibly hard condition to spot and will almost certainly be completely unnoticed by western medical practitioners. However, it can wreak havoc over your health & well-being and is worth ruling out if you're generally feeling unwell.
How do you treat or mitigate the SIBO?
Ha! That's the most difficult question of all and there is not one best answer; it's highly contextual based on the individual's circumstance. The goal is to eradicate the bacteria; this is usually achieved through antibiotics, antimicrobials (think herbs/herb oils), and prokinetics (to increase regularity). It can be a chronic and reoccuring problem in many individuals and is much more difficult to treat than the apneas, unfortunately.
Benzodiazepines, such as alprazolam, works great for me. Keep in mind that such drugs should only be used as last resort and for short periods of time, since it can easily lead to addiction.
Children may manifest bruxism if they have parasites (e.g.,worms).
Parasitic worms were endemic where I was raised. Every childhood physical included required a fecal sample for parasites. Years later, when I returned home, it struck me that I hadn't been tested for parasites in decades. Knowing what I know, I just couldn't believe I had none. So I bought some ivermectin, measured an amount proportional for my weight and slathered it on. Nothing happened that I noticed. Any parasites would almost certainly have been flushed out. Much cheaper than a doctor's visit! And I now have a 5-year supply of parasiticide!
Posts on HN report ivermectin is being tested against Covid-19 so maybe that's a plus!8-))
Parasitic worms were endemic where I was raised. Every childhood physical included required a fecal sample for parasites. Years later, when I returned home, it struck me that I hadn't been tested for parasites in decades. Knowing what I know, I just couldn't believe I had none. So I bought some ivermectin, measured an amount proportional for my weight and slathered it on. Nothing happened that I noticed. Any parasites would almost certainly have been flushed out. Much cheaper than a doctor's visit! And I now have a 5-year supply of parasiticide!
Posts on HN report ivermectin is being tested against Covid-19 so maybe that's a plus!8-))
Most dentists don’t know what they don’t know. You need to see a physiologic dentist: lviglobal.com
If you have an hour, join their fb group and watch their video. It will be quite illuminating.
If you have an hour, join their fb group and watch their video. It will be quite illuminating.
Thanks! What will they do? Did you have this problem?
I will check them out.
I will check them out.
What started out as a desire to get Invisalign turned into a much deeper journey into understanding the relationship between occlusion, TMJ, posture, sleep apnea and more.
I'm now almost 18 months into treatment with an LVI dentist in San Jose. I don't personally have bruxism, but it's very much in the family of issues.
My HN/lay explanation: the jaw seeks an equilibrium position that maximizes occlusion and minimizes muscular tension. However, many people live in a local equilibrium where occlusion is maximized but the jaw positioning comes with increased muscular tension. This tension can lead to symptoms like bruxism, migraines, etc.
They have a machine called the BioPAK which can track the 3D path of your bite and measure the tension in the different facial muscles to determine if you are actually in the globally optimal position.
I'm now almost 18 months into treatment with an LVI dentist in San Jose. I don't personally have bruxism, but it's very much in the family of issues.
My HN/lay explanation: the jaw seeks an equilibrium position that maximizes occlusion and minimizes muscular tension. However, many people live in a local equilibrium where occlusion is maximized but the jaw positioning comes with increased muscular tension. This tension can lead to symptoms like bruxism, migraines, etc.
They have a machine called the BioPAK which can track the 3D path of your bite and measure the tension in the different facial muscles to determine if you are actually in the globally optimal position.
Hmm, no dentists of that type anywhere near me. Is there any other relevant organization that might have dentists with similar expertise?
Does anyone’s jaw click? I can make the right side click at will. I think it’s off aligned. It’s not sore but I think it must be common enough that someone knows the cause?
Yeah i can make my left side "click" by opening my mouth to it's widest. I got hit with a soccer ball directly at my chin in high-school. Been doing it since.
I've asked every type of dentist about it and had one x-ray it. They all say unless it's painful it's probably nothing and I'll be fine. Which technically i am but it's really annoying.
The only satisfying theory i got was the bone in the joint got chipped when it got injured. During the healing process it didn't grow back smoothly. So opening it to it's widest causes it pop like that.
I've asked every type of dentist about it and had one x-ray it. They all say unless it's painful it's probably nothing and I'll be fine. Which technically i am but it's really annoying.
The only satisfying theory i got was the bone in the joint got chipped when it got injured. During the healing process it didn't grow back smoothly. So opening it to it's widest causes it pop like that.
The ideal natural position of your jaw is actually when your teeth (lower and upper range) don't touch, with a 1 or 2cm gap, and with your tongue touching your palate
Mine was stress related. I switched jobs and it went away.
Reducing stress levels is key: yoga, exercise, omit caffeine, omit alcohol, eat well, spend time with family and friends, don't forget to breathe.
I'm surprised that's how it's called in English. It's very similar to how we called it in Portuguese. How is it pronounced?
Yes, eliminated it by relaxing for 20 mins before going to sleep. Otherwise the stresses of the day manifest themselves in grinding.
Anything specific, or just calm reading etc?
I just allow myself to wind down thinking my own thoughts, generally a calm reflection on what’s happened in the day which often turns into what I want to do tomorrow.
If you haven't tried eliminating all stimulants like ADD meds and/or caffeine, they're obvious places to start.
Two friends of mine have cured jaw tightness by taking methylfolate.
It may not work for you, but it's cheap to try.
It may not work for you, but it's cheap to try.
Try magnesium.
Was scrolling through the comments to see if anyone mentioned this. I started taking magnesium supplements a couple of years ago after hearing somewhere (forget where at this point) that it helped with teeth grinding. Whenever I'd go into dentist appointments, they'd always mention something about my teeth grinding and recommended getting a mouth guard, which I didn't pursue due to expense. Oddly enough, they never mentioned magnesium. When I started taking magnesium supplements every day, my grinding almost completely stopped. I now notice after a couple days if I haven't taken it, my jaw starts tensing up again and naturally reverts into clenching mode. I don't have any medical expertise or evidence to back its effectiveness, but it sure worked for me. Worth a try before exploring other options.
Which type/amount of magnesium?
I second this. I've had bruxism as long as I can remember, which mostly manifested as really loud popping and pain when I opened my mouth wide. I tried some random magnesium supplement for a while and noticed no change, then years later I did some deeper research on the type and dosage and landed on Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium Glycinate Lysinate [0]. After a couple nights, the pain and popping completely disappeared. It's the biggest pharmacological effect I've ever experienced.
Note: If you get this brand, notice that the dosage is 2 pills/night.
[0] https://amazon.com/gp/product/B000BD0RT0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_sea...
Note: If you get this brand, notice that the dosage is 2 pills/night.
[0] https://amazon.com/gp/product/B000BD0RT0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_sea...
so glad you posted this, I was wondering the exact thing coincidentally... My dentists always notice it and try to get me to spend $600 ish on a guard. i currently just use a cheap one I bought at walgreens
I just got my first guard from Clearclub and it fits great. Less than 1/10 the price (I think $90 for a year, get a new one every six months) and the same polymer tray molds that the dentist uses. Might be worth a shot.
I’ve had several night guards from dentists but chewed through them pretty quickly and it gets expensive.
I’ve had several night guards from dentists but chewed through them pretty quickly and it gets expensive.
I’ve been wondering about these sites, there’s several of them. I really need a new guard but I’ve seen some reporting that dentists might be a very high risk place to be. Did you have any problems with fitting / making the mold?
No it was a piece of cake. Exactly like the dentist’s assistant did it at the office, with likely the same putty. Tray looked the same too.
I’ll note in my case that if the guard isn’t precisely balanced I get a worse ache in my jaw, as I can often redirect all the tension towards a single tooth. You may be lucky in that a one size fits all guard is sufficient!
I have a dentist-fitted guard and it's much more comfortable. Highly recommended.
The cheapest guards made of only soft plastic, which will not slide easily across the lower teeth. Get one with base of hard plastic.
Expect to spend over an hour getting it fitted just right, minimizing stress concentration points.
Expect to spend over an hour getting it fitted just right, minimizing stress concentration points.
My dentist warned against store-bought guards because they're not as adjusted to the wearer and could damage your jaw in the long-term.
TLDR; Bought a Remi custom night guard online and finally can wake up feeling good
Hey! First I want to thank you for posing the question and I would love to share my experiences with this. Early on during quarantine, I began having a hard time getting through the night. Oftentimes I’d wake up with severe headaches and pain in my jaw, which a late-night google binge taught me are both prominent symptoms of Bruxism.
I found this new sleep & wellness company called Remi (www.shopremi.com) that makes custom night-guards for individuals who struggle with Bruxism. I ordered my night-guard and the entire process was super easy all taking places at home. Remi sent me an “impressions kit”, a do-it-yourself version to make a mold of my teeth. From it, they created my night guard and sent it back to me.
I've been using my night-guard for about a month or so now and I couldn't be happier with the results. I can finally sleep well at night and wake up feeling refreshed.
Hey! First I want to thank you for posing the question and I would love to share my experiences with this. Early on during quarantine, I began having a hard time getting through the night. Oftentimes I’d wake up with severe headaches and pain in my jaw, which a late-night google binge taught me are both prominent symptoms of Bruxism.
I found this new sleep & wellness company called Remi (www.shopremi.com) that makes custom night-guards for individuals who struggle with Bruxism. I ordered my night-guard and the entire process was super easy all taking places at home. Remi sent me an “impressions kit”, a do-it-yourself version to make a mold of my teeth. From it, they created my night guard and sent it back to me.
I've been using my night-guard for about a month or so now and I couldn't be happier with the results. I can finally sleep well at night and wake up feeling refreshed.
I’d did, by giving up all soft drinks. Especially Coke.
Taking Magnesium supplements can relieve jaw tension.
for me, cannabis/cbd before bedtime reduces bad dreams and grinding teeth while sleeping
Two options I'd recommend as your priority - and then two different exercises you can try now: a jaw exercise to help relax and strengthen the jaw, strengthening the muscles at an open position vs. how clenching will strengthen them at a grinding position, and a mouth strengthening exercise.
First of two is lower cost, however if you can afford it you may as well go for the higher cost option which will have much higher potent healing potential.
Re: PRP & stem cell treatments
I'd recommend PRP (platelet rich plasma) injections as low cost option for your jaw including the clenching muscles. PRP is healing property concentrate from your blood and is highly anti-inflammatory. That alone could help break the cycle of clenching, and perhaps heal some damage and reduce strains in the muscles.
The more expensive version is using your own stem cells that can potentially heal/regenerate the tissues fully. You'd be prescribed opiates for a number of days and need liquid, soft diet for a few days too. Stem cell treatment would literally be the best experiment you could try. That you mentioned jaw injury makes me feel like it's likely the best route, but if you can't afford the ~$7000 - $9000+ USD + travel and stay costs for stem cell treatment, PRP is usually closer to $1000 but from my own experience only heals maybe the top 20% of pain at a source and not the deeper pains - perhaps a good litmus test where if you feel improvement but not enough then you'd know that stem cells would heal further.
There would be enough stem cells to treat more than your jaw as well, and would be best to also have your neck looked at and treated. Different doctors/clinics have different requirements before treatment such as seeing an MRI of the areas to be treated or where they may only use ultrasound to check and guide them.
I've had my jaw treated multiple times - had a lot of pain from a dislocated jaw, and also a bicycle collision. My jaw pain is arguably 90%+ lower than it used to be. I've had a lot in my body treated, I have a complex pain situation - old injuries that are amplified by central sensitization I developed - so healing even small injuries helps reduce the pain a lot.
There are two places I've gone for treatment multiple times: a doctor in San Francisco, California, who uses adipose/fat derived stem cells (think mini liposuction), and a clinic near Denver, Colorado, that use bone marrow aspirate (drill into hip bone on both sides of Iliac crest to then suck out the marrow); then there's processing they do with it, along with drawing blood to mix the stem cells with PRP to support the healing. You may find a doctor or clinic closer to you, otherwise I'd trust recommending you to them if you'd like their details; I have no incentive for referring them to you, you could tell them I did or not, or hopefully find another place that seems reputable enough to you - I'm just wanting to help people.
Re: Jaw strengthening exercise
As I said the purpose of this jaw exercise is to help strengthen the muscles at an open position, which also helps relax the muscles through the resistance part of the exercise that acts to stretch them.
It's quite simple: 1) Open your mouth enough so your teeth aren't touching (your lips never need to separate) - you'll find what range of open is comfortable as you do the strengthening-stretching. 2) Place the fingers of both hands on your chin - thumbs underneath, other fingers in front with pinkies next to each other just touching above the last joint, with your elbows relaxed down. 3) Start by applying slight pressure diagonally towards the jaw joints which will engage your hands slightly preparing to the hold to begin. 4) It doesn't matter which order you start in: as you gently pull your jaw downward with your fingers, resist by engaging your jaw to keep your jaw from ...
This can stretch out really tight muscles and may cause things like a headache. It will also help stretch fascia as well that if tightened over time will contribute to problems.
Re: Mouth strengthening via oil pulling
Oil pulling will strengthen your tongue and the holistic musculature of your mouth, as well has help stretch it. You can use any type of consumable oil (though you don't want to swallow it) like coconut oil, however sunflower oil is more often recommended in certain holistic health circles as sunflowers can absorb radiation - whether that translates to oil pulling radiation from the body, I'm unaware if there's any research showing that. The mechanism for using oil over say water is that it's viscous - and the goal is to keep moving the oil around as fast as you can for tbe duration: pushing and pulling, swishing through teeth forward and back, and sides of the mouth through the teeth, using suction or pressure with the action of the tongue. Try to do it for 2 minutes when you begin, do it daily to quickly strengthen. Your tongue and other mouth muscles will get tired but you'll feel a difference and how it gets easier each day you do it. Use a tablespoon of oil, though if not enough resistance than add more oil - if too much resistance/difficulty, use less; mouth size varies. Oil pulling is good for your teeth and gums too. Spit the oil out into the toilet, it's often suggested then to rinse your mouth, swishing around like you were, with highly diluted hydrogen peroxide for 5 seconds or so - and can spit that out in sink.
First of two is lower cost, however if you can afford it you may as well go for the higher cost option which will have much higher potent healing potential.
Re: PRP & stem cell treatments
I'd recommend PRP (platelet rich plasma) injections as low cost option for your jaw including the clenching muscles. PRP is healing property concentrate from your blood and is highly anti-inflammatory. That alone could help break the cycle of clenching, and perhaps heal some damage and reduce strains in the muscles.
The more expensive version is using your own stem cells that can potentially heal/regenerate the tissues fully. You'd be prescribed opiates for a number of days and need liquid, soft diet for a few days too. Stem cell treatment would literally be the best experiment you could try. That you mentioned jaw injury makes me feel like it's likely the best route, but if you can't afford the ~$7000 - $9000+ USD + travel and stay costs for stem cell treatment, PRP is usually closer to $1000 but from my own experience only heals maybe the top 20% of pain at a source and not the deeper pains - perhaps a good litmus test where if you feel improvement but not enough then you'd know that stem cells would heal further.
There would be enough stem cells to treat more than your jaw as well, and would be best to also have your neck looked at and treated. Different doctors/clinics have different requirements before treatment such as seeing an MRI of the areas to be treated or where they may only use ultrasound to check and guide them.
I've had my jaw treated multiple times - had a lot of pain from a dislocated jaw, and also a bicycle collision. My jaw pain is arguably 90%+ lower than it used to be. I've had a lot in my body treated, I have a complex pain situation - old injuries that are amplified by central sensitization I developed - so healing even small injuries helps reduce the pain a lot.
There are two places I've gone for treatment multiple times: a doctor in San Francisco, California, who uses adipose/fat derived stem cells (think mini liposuction), and a clinic near Denver, Colorado, that use bone marrow aspirate (drill into hip bone on both sides of Iliac crest to then suck out the marrow); then there's processing they do with it, along with drawing blood to mix the stem cells with PRP to support the healing. You may find a doctor or clinic closer to you, otherwise I'd trust recommending you to them if you'd like their details; I have no incentive for referring them to you, you could tell them I did or not, or hopefully find another place that seems reputable enough to you - I'm just wanting to help people.
Re: Jaw strengthening exercise
As I said the purpose of this jaw exercise is to help strengthen the muscles at an open position, which also helps relax the muscles through the resistance part of the exercise that acts to stretch them.
It's quite simple: 1) Open your mouth enough so your teeth aren't touching (your lips never need to separate) - you'll find what range of open is comfortable as you do the strengthening-stretching. 2) Place the fingers of both hands on your chin - thumbs underneath, other fingers in front with pinkies next to each other just touching above the last joint, with your elbows relaxed down. 3) Start by applying slight pressure diagonally towards the jaw joints which will engage your hands slightly preparing to the hold to begin. 4) It doesn't matter which order you start in: as you gently pull your jaw downward with your fingers, resist by engaging your jaw to keep your jaw from ...
This can stretch out really tight muscles and may cause things like a headache. It will also help stretch fascia as well that if tightened over time will contribute to problems.
Re: Mouth strengthening via oil pulling
Oil pulling will strengthen your tongue and the holistic musculature of your mouth, as well has help stretch it. You can use any type of consumable oil (though you don't want to swallow it) like coconut oil, however sunflower oil is more often recommended in certain holistic health circles as sunflowers can absorb radiation - whether that translates to oil pulling radiation from the body, I'm unaware if there's any research showing that. The mechanism for using oil over say water is that it's viscous - and the goal is to keep moving the oil around as fast as you can for tbe duration: pushing and pulling, swishing through teeth forward and back, and sides of the mouth through the teeth, using suction or pressure with the action of the tongue. Try to do it for 2 minutes when you begin, do it daily to quickly strengthen. Your tongue and other mouth muscles will get tired but you'll feel a difference and how it gets easier each day you do it. Use a tablespoon of oil, though if not enough resistance than add more oil - if too much resistance/difficulty, use less; mouth size varies. Oil pulling is good for your teeth and gums too. Spit the oil out into the toilet, it's often suggested then to rinse your mouth, swishing around like you were, with highly diluted hydrogen peroxide for 5 seconds or so - and can spit that out in sink.
[I'm not a medical professional. This is merely my experience, not medical advice.]
tl;dr yes; using a pacifier
Here's my experience with sleep and other issues that I've been dealing with since the beginning of this year. Some background: I was a moderately active male in my 20s with a perfect BMI. I started a company in January working from home. Prior conditions: Chronic pain in the sternocleidomastoid area when I turn my neck. Chronic RSI that made using computer keyboard painful. Chronic pain behind right eye noticeable when I move it around too much e.g. playing foosball. Chronic ITBS. Chronic constipation and ensuing haemorrhoidal problems. I'd generally consider myself a healthy individual. I believe the average healthy human has dozens of such minor annoyances.
I begun experiencing bruxism (as evidenced by damaged gums from one slightly misaligned tooth in the morning), frequent intense dreams where I'm not breathing, lightheadedness/dizziness and memory problems (including amnesia), worsened chronic neck pain, new chronic right-sided post-nasal drip, inability to concentrate, and breathlessness/high heart rate after just minor exercise or even just standing up for a long time. These issues were triggered/made worse after visiting a proctologist who, in an act of malpractice, medicated me with a drug that made me delirious (it wasn't supposed to) and gave me a severe headache that lasted 2 days. After the headache subsided I was left unable to concentrate on work. I tried, and I didn't even realize there's something wrong for the first couple of days, but my mind was just wandering all over the place and when I looked at my timesheets at the end of the week there were just a couple hours of work done. I gave myself a 3-week vacation, but I didn't see much improvement. I ended up doing no work for three months.
I've been to a dentist, GP, ophthalmology, and ENT and neither had any findings except for a deviated septum. I haven't been to neurology which had been next on my list.
First off, I fixed the haemorrhoids by eating oatmeal with added fibre and psyllium (the doctor didn't even tell me to fix my diet; ironically I read it in a publication that requires the user to declare they're a certified medical professional). Note that my case was just prolapsing without bleeding.
I started going to the gym every other day (20 minutes of light cardio + 25 minutes of strength exercise). This had noticeable impact on the breathlessness/high heart rate. I should note that when exercised too hard it made the issue worse for the rest of the day.
As for the bruxism, my dentist suggested I get braces, but I can't afford that anytime soon so I just got a dummy. I got one that lets some air flow by but not too much so my mouth doesn't get dry. I should stress that the dummy is impossible to swallow. It sounds awkward, but I can measure how bad my bruxism is by how injured my gums are and it's worked flawlessly - they recovered in a couple of days. When a month ago I tried to sleep without it once they got injured again.
I didn't mention that the headache following the medication was much worse in a horizontal position and that it didn't subside fully. When I found myself sleeping on the side or on my stomach I would wake up with a headache. Also whenever I slept on the side, I would get dizzy and have very poor sleep. I adjusted my bed so that my head would be above the body level at all times (my thanks for this advice goes to the NHS website), which helped with the headache. As for the dizziness I fixed that by sleeping on my back with sunglasses on because that doesn't allow me to sleep on the side/stomach, and it also made the bad dreams go away. I wish I got the sunglasses idea earlier.
I moved back in with my parents which relieved my anxiety about spending too much (>half o my expenses were rent). I now drive to do my work away from home, which helps with keeping a regular schedule.
I'd like to stress that I don't know what underlying conditions led to such severe decline. Stress probably played a role as well as everything being shut down due to COVID-19. But in the end I just know the symptoms and what triggered it. Today I'm almost fully recovered. Not at the top of my game as I was before, but I can focus on my work and I've done a lot of progress with my company this month. Also the RSI that made using the keyboard painful is gone.
p.s. I suspected I may have been suffering from sleep apnoea but I had no way to verify. I decided to create an app that tracks breathing using a phone's g sensor and gyroscope. This was when I was starting to recover and I could start doing lightweight programming work. I implemented a Non-uniform DFT-based algorithm that suffices with just one axis from the g sensor to reliably detect breathing while I'm awake with the phone on my stomach. Unfortunately the parameters that work while awake don't work while asleep - the app would wake me up the second I started sleeping, just like holding something in your hand that drops to the floor wakes you at the very moment you fall asleep. I was going to implement data collection and improve the app after collecting enough data, but since I got better I returned to work and I'm not really interested in continuing with this app. If anyone's interested the algorithm's here: https://pastebin.com/aVvh8YDK (sorry about the quality it's very much WIP & my first Dart project at the same time; but I believe it's all the math you need unless you want to go full ML). Here's a demo of the app albeit with just uniform DFT which wasn't great at fitting the data: https://gofile.io/d/cTf1y9
tl;dr yes; using a pacifier
Here's my experience with sleep and other issues that I've been dealing with since the beginning of this year. Some background: I was a moderately active male in my 20s with a perfect BMI. I started a company in January working from home. Prior conditions: Chronic pain in the sternocleidomastoid area when I turn my neck. Chronic RSI that made using computer keyboard painful. Chronic pain behind right eye noticeable when I move it around too much e.g. playing foosball. Chronic ITBS. Chronic constipation and ensuing haemorrhoidal problems. I'd generally consider myself a healthy individual. I believe the average healthy human has dozens of such minor annoyances.
I begun experiencing bruxism (as evidenced by damaged gums from one slightly misaligned tooth in the morning), frequent intense dreams where I'm not breathing, lightheadedness/dizziness and memory problems (including amnesia), worsened chronic neck pain, new chronic right-sided post-nasal drip, inability to concentrate, and breathlessness/high heart rate after just minor exercise or even just standing up for a long time. These issues were triggered/made worse after visiting a proctologist who, in an act of malpractice, medicated me with a drug that made me delirious (it wasn't supposed to) and gave me a severe headache that lasted 2 days. After the headache subsided I was left unable to concentrate on work. I tried, and I didn't even realize there's something wrong for the first couple of days, but my mind was just wandering all over the place and when I looked at my timesheets at the end of the week there were just a couple hours of work done. I gave myself a 3-week vacation, but I didn't see much improvement. I ended up doing no work for three months.
I've been to a dentist, GP, ophthalmology, and ENT and neither had any findings except for a deviated septum. I haven't been to neurology which had been next on my list.
First off, I fixed the haemorrhoids by eating oatmeal with added fibre and psyllium (the doctor didn't even tell me to fix my diet; ironically I read it in a publication that requires the user to declare they're a certified medical professional). Note that my case was just prolapsing without bleeding.
I started going to the gym every other day (20 minutes of light cardio + 25 minutes of strength exercise). This had noticeable impact on the breathlessness/high heart rate. I should note that when exercised too hard it made the issue worse for the rest of the day.
As for the bruxism, my dentist suggested I get braces, but I can't afford that anytime soon so I just got a dummy. I got one that lets some air flow by but not too much so my mouth doesn't get dry. I should stress that the dummy is impossible to swallow. It sounds awkward, but I can measure how bad my bruxism is by how injured my gums are and it's worked flawlessly - they recovered in a couple of days. When a month ago I tried to sleep without it once they got injured again.
I didn't mention that the headache following the medication was much worse in a horizontal position and that it didn't subside fully. When I found myself sleeping on the side or on my stomach I would wake up with a headache. Also whenever I slept on the side, I would get dizzy and have very poor sleep. I adjusted my bed so that my head would be above the body level at all times (my thanks for this advice goes to the NHS website), which helped with the headache. As for the dizziness I fixed that by sleeping on my back with sunglasses on because that doesn't allow me to sleep on the side/stomach, and it also made the bad dreams go away. I wish I got the sunglasses idea earlier.
I moved back in with my parents which relieved my anxiety about spending too much (>half o my expenses were rent). I now drive to do my work away from home, which helps with keeping a regular schedule.
I'd like to stress that I don't know what underlying conditions led to such severe decline. Stress probably played a role as well as everything being shut down due to COVID-19. But in the end I just know the symptoms and what triggered it. Today I'm almost fully recovered. Not at the top of my game as I was before, but I can focus on my work and I've done a lot of progress with my company this month. Also the RSI that made using the keyboard painful is gone.
p.s. I suspected I may have been suffering from sleep apnoea but I had no way to verify. I decided to create an app that tracks breathing using a phone's g sensor and gyroscope. This was when I was starting to recover and I could start doing lightweight programming work. I implemented a Non-uniform DFT-based algorithm that suffices with just one axis from the g sensor to reliably detect breathing while I'm awake with the phone on my stomach. Unfortunately the parameters that work while awake don't work while asleep - the app would wake me up the second I started sleeping, just like holding something in your hand that drops to the floor wakes you at the very moment you fall asleep. I was going to implement data collection and improve the app after collecting enough data, but since I got better I returned to work and I'm not really interested in continuing with this app. If anyone's interested the algorithm's here: https://pastebin.com/aVvh8YDK (sorry about the quality it's very much WIP & my first Dart project at the same time; but I believe it's all the math you need unless you want to go full ML). Here's a demo of the app albeit with just uniform DFT which wasn't great at fitting the data: https://gofile.io/d/cTf1y9
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What does your dentist recommend? Start there instead of with anecdotes here.
Following the advice of randos has a good chance of damaging your health worse than it is already.
Following the advice of randos has a good chance of damaging your health worse than it is already.
I clench. No longer damaging my teeth as I have a guard. But I still have tight masseters and neck pain.
I would like to eliminate or reduce the habit. Has anyone succeeded in doing so?