Zoom announces a $599 touchscreen device for remote workers(theverge.com)
theverge.com
Zoom announces a $599 touchscreen device for remote workers
https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/15/21325542/zoom-dten-me-tablet-video-calls-webcam-home-remote-work
66 comments
https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
I'm 38 and I made it up to almost 20khz before I couldn't hear a tone.
I'm 38 and I made it up to almost 20khz before I couldn't hear a tone.
This is already present in iOS and Windows
https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/214629303-Direct-s...
Cisco Proximity has been using this type of system for a few years now. Not sure which range of frequency they use, it's definitely ultrasonic. I've had instances where my BT headphones were still connected at my desk, and my laptop in a conference room couldn't hear the conference system.
In many ways it's no different from what Bluetooth already does and the range of security issues with it, so I'm not really sure where the meat of my complaint arises from.
I definitely notice that any jammers or sound-cancelling devices interfere with my connectivity though. And I can imagine that if that's the case here, people may not be able to use their favorite noise-cancelling headphones with this monitor.
I think from an engineering perspective for compatibility, probably not using Bluetooth is good to separate concerns? In my experience Bluetooth is iffy, randomly connects all the time, requires fussy configuration and sometimes imposes maximums on how many devices can be connected (like if I use 5 bluetooth devices it turns off my wifi, not sure how that happens but now I know). I absolutely hate using it to pair with anything.
I definitely notice that any jammers or sound-cancelling devices interfere with my connectivity though. And I can imagine that if that's the case here, people may not be able to use their favorite noise-cancelling headphones with this monitor.
I think from an engineering perspective for compatibility, probably not using Bluetooth is good to separate concerns? In my experience Bluetooth is iffy, randomly connects all the time, requires fussy configuration and sometimes imposes maximums on how many devices can be connected (like if I use 5 bluetooth devices it turns off my wifi, not sure how that happens but now I know). I absolutely hate using it to pair with anything.
Chromecast has been using ultrasonic pairing for "guest mode" for some time. Haven't seen any major backlash from it yet. I'm assuming it's very briefly used to exchange some configurations, not continuously transmitting data.
Right, the decision to use ultrasonic pairing is actually cogent since it doesn't involve hopping onto Wi-Fi or competing with Bluetooth devices.
> 18-22 kHz is DEFINITELY audible to teenagers and children.
I'm in my 40s and can still hear into that range so it's definitely not an edge case.
I'm in my 40s and can still hear into that range so it's definitely not an edge case.
> Um, most adults. 18-22 kHz is DEFINITELY audible to teenagers and children.
I think 18kHz children can barely hear, I don't think they can hear above that.
The mosquito ringtones were usually lower than that.
I don't disagree with your other points, but I suspect that frequency range won't be detected.
I think 18kHz children can barely hear, I don't think they can hear above that.
The mosquito ringtones were usually lower than that.
I don't disagree with your other points, but I suspect that frequency range won't be detected.
As someone in my 30's that hears all of these god awful ultrasonic sensors, please don't assume that.
Lighting occupancy sensors are the worst.
And yes, I've had my hearing tested, and I am in fact, a freak.
Lighting occupancy sensors are the worst.
And yes, I've had my hearing tested, and I am in fact, a freak.
> I am in fact, a freak.
It's rather common to assume that a good share of the adult population is near deaf.
A few years ago I went to a restaurant with outside sitting near Big Sur. There was a nearly unbearable high pitch whine of which most other guests seemed blissfully unaware. I asked a waiter about it and he informed me, that they recently installed a system to shoo away birds from the tables. I think they also shooed away quite a few customers.
It's rather common to assume that a good share of the adult population is near deaf.
A few years ago I went to a restaurant with outside sitting near Big Sur. There was a nearly unbearable high pitch whine of which most other guests seemed blissfully unaware. I asked a waiter about it and he informed me, that they recently installed a system to shoo away birds from the tables. I think they also shooed away quite a few customers.
I don't think it's outrageous to claim average speakers can comfortably emit 20-20khz.
I don't think it's outrageous to claim that this is the comfortable range for most adults who experience some kind of hearing loss over time with age.
Children most definitely can hear above 20khz. I at least have the anecdotal experience ("most" here is keyword to argue against) that I experimented with testing ultrasonic frequencies on multiple devices to see if audio file formats made any discernible difference in range performance. This involved "swooping" a frequency starting at 20hz to as high as you can emit it (which usually starts to sputter in consistency around 18kHz.
I don't think it's outrageous to claim that this is the comfortable range for most adults who experience some kind of hearing loss over time with age.
Children most definitely can hear above 20khz. I at least have the anecdotal experience ("most" here is keyword to argue against) that I experimented with testing ultrasonic frequencies on multiple devices to see if audio file formats made any discernible difference in range performance. This involved "swooping" a frequency starting at 20hz to as high as you can emit it (which usually starts to sputter in consistency around 18kHz.
> While $599 may seem like a steep price to pay for a Zoom-calling device when you can already Zoom from a phone or computer, the idea seems to be that it’s an easy way for newly remote employees to jump right into Zoom without having to deal with installing the software or setting up any complex equipment.
You can run zoom directly from a web client without installing anything, and the app is trivial to install on Mac, windows and Linux. Both methods work fine on my Chromebook which I bought for $200 5 years ago, both in ChromeOS or booted to GalliumOS (Ubuntu really).
I don't understand who this product is intended for. if you're a remote worker you have to have a computer. $600 is more than enough for a webcam, good USB mic and an extra monitor, with leftover for a nice steak dinner out with the wife.
That's not even mentioning Zoom's questionable history with privacy...
You can run zoom directly from a web client without installing anything, and the app is trivial to install on Mac, windows and Linux. Both methods work fine on my Chromebook which I bought for $200 5 years ago, both in ChromeOS or booted to GalliumOS (Ubuntu really).
I don't understand who this product is intended for. if you're a remote worker you have to have a computer. $600 is more than enough for a webcam, good USB mic and an extra monitor, with leftover for a nice steak dinner out with the wife.
That's not even mentioning Zoom's questionable history with privacy...
How common is to release device like this without giving out any actual hardware specs?
If it's good enough to run Zoom, isn't that all the specs you need to know? Since that's all it does? What are you going to do with the information about how much RAM it has?
Pretty common, especially if specs aren’t intended to be part of the buying decision. It doesn’t matter how much onboard RAM it has if it does its one task flawlessly
DTEN is the company actually making it and their site lists some specs. 1080p screen, runs "DTEN OS" which I assume is some sort of custom Linux distro, 100mbps ethernet, AC wifi, has an HDMI input, weighs 14lb.
I'm not sure they'll release specs.
If it's an "appliance" -- e.g., no official support for installing other software -- then the specs aren't really important.
The question would be how well does it work as a video conferencing device, regardless of specs.
If it's an "appliance" -- e.g., no official support for installing other software -- then the specs aren't really important.
The question would be how well does it work as a video conferencing device, regardless of specs.
I don't think this is unprecedented. It's not releasing until August, so I imagine that Zoom wants people to talk about the fact that they have something in that target category before giving people information that would knock them out of the target funnel early.
It's pretty easy to do Zoom on an ipad, and you can do other things with it. So a dedicated zoom device seems like a complete waste.
My brother's an attorney. He's not tech savvy at all. A device that does Zoom conferencing only and does it well would be perfect for him. I think there are a lot of people in that category.
ipad doesn't have 27" screen, 3 cameras and as good mics. This is a dedicated device, so you set it and forget it.
It's nicely specced, but the fact that it's limited to a single service, Zoom, makes it unappealing to me, especially since I almost never use Zoom (we did some family virtual gatherings over Zoom for my kids' birthday and another family virtual happy hour). School meetings have all been Google hangouts (which we ended up moving to an old MacBook so we could use a Chrome plugin to get grid view instead of the default Google setup) and work meetings have all been WebEx with the only video being when someone shares their screens (I moved to a new team on June and I have no idea what any of my team members look like except for one person who put their picture in their WebEx profile so her face pops up when she speaks in a meeting when no one is sharing their screen).
> "makes it unappealing to me"
and to most of us, but i imagine that most people aren't in the target market. My university outfitted all new lecture halls built in the last ~20 years with professional grade video recording equipment, most likely for thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. By comparison, $599 for professors giving lectures via zoom seems like a bargain if the sound and video quality are substantially better than an ipad.
For the rest of us, we'll most likely continue with our phones, laptops, cheap webcams and ipads.
and to most of us, but i imagine that most people aren't in the target market. My university outfitted all new lecture halls built in the last ~20 years with professional grade video recording equipment, most likely for thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. By comparison, $599 for professors giving lectures via zoom seems like a bargain if the sound and video quality are substantially better than an ipad.
For the rest of us, we'll most likely continue with our phones, laptops, cheap webcams and ipads.
I'm guessing that there are a lot of people who will angrily return this when they realize that Zoom is only Zoom and they won't be able to use it for all the other videoconferencing stuff that they think of as "zoom" even though it's not.
... and throw it away, like one of those "skype phones" when it will get obsolete
How do you know if the cameras/microphone are active when you're not using it? You don't.
How do you know that on an iPad? Or any other device in your home?
Camera and microphone indicators have been added to iOS 14: https://9to5mac.com/2020/07/07/ios-14-what-do-the-orange-and...
Right... but I mean they choose whether or not to show those indicators... so why do you trust them to do that?
I admit this sounds kind of dumb, but... Apple versus some relatively obscure company I just heard about?
To clarify, is Zoom or DTEN the company you are referring to?
DTEN: the lesser known between the two, and the one making the hardware.
Seeing as it only has one purpose, you could unplug it when its not in use.
The actual "Zoom for Home - DTEN ME is an all-in-one
personal collaboration device for your home office" is here:
https://dten.com/me
Looks like they make a bunch of conferencing things?
https://dten.com/me
Looks like they make a bunch of conferencing things?
My first question was how to share a presentation. Though I guess maybe this is targeted at user who wouldn't do this themselves? I don't know how realistic this is, particularly for a home device. Presenters not in control of the slide deck never seems to work.
On the specs sheet it does have an HDMI in, so I'd assume you can use it like a display, and share the input? It doesn't appear to be highlighted anywhere though.
On the specs sheet it does have an HDMI in, so I'd assume you can use it like a display, and share the input? It doesn't appear to be highlighted anywhere though.
This product makes me worried.
I‘m afraid that putting a teleconferencing app on a separate device will make it easier to add distracting or privacy invading features.
I wouldn’t want to keep this thing always on and let anyone connect anytime.
I‘m afraid that putting a teleconferencing app on a separate device will make it easier to add distracting or privacy invading features.
I wouldn’t want to keep this thing always on and let anyone connect anytime.
I certainly wouldn’t trust the webcam or microphone indicator, if one exists, to be truthful, vs a hardware switch or an Apple product (who doesn’t have skin in the game).
Single-purpose and supersized version of the Nest Hub Max ($229). I have no doubt that Zoom has consumer aspirations somewhere in its future.
This would be nice if it is super easy to use. Like could I give it to my parents or other family members and say click here to see me.
Can it be used a monitor/peripheral? Like a cheap Cintik, maybe?
Can it be used as a stand alone device with no other hardware?
I really miss sharing a big whiteboard with coworkers. Any chance this can replace that experience?
Can it be used as a stand alone device with no other hardware?
I really miss sharing a big whiteboard with coworkers. Any chance this can replace that experience?
Cisco WebEx was generally what I'd consider 'hot garbage' but the one thing that I did think we cool was their giant monitor/whiteboards with speaker-focusing cameras.
$599 sounds steep and I probably wouldn't pay for it. But if you are actually using zoom quite a bit, this isn't a bad deal. For that price, you are getting a very nice sized screen and it seems like the cameras and microphones are better suited to video conferencing than an iPad.
Sure, it's probably overkill for most people. But then again, my laptop is overkill for most people and even for me 90% of the time, but i like having something powerful for that 10%. If i were in meetings all day, or even if I had a few meetings where my role was particularly important (e.g. a professor who is going to be giving lectures via zoom) i'd definitely shell out for something like this (and i bet my employer would too).
Sure, it's probably overkill for most people. But then again, my laptop is overkill for most people and even for me 90% of the time, but i like having something powerful for that 10%. If i were in meetings all day, or even if I had a few meetings where my role was particularly important (e.g. a professor who is going to be giving lectures via zoom) i'd definitely shell out for something like this (and i bet my employer would too).
I suspect they're expecting enterprises to foot the bill, not individuals.
Famous short-seller Jim Chanos appropriately called Zoom a "Covid stock". It is clear why after seeing this story.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/02/jim-chanos-says-beware-the-v...
Will people really want this monstrosity around post-pandemic? I hope we can somehow miraculously get back to normal work just as this device enters the market in August, and we will have an epic failure called DTEN ME (which sounds like "detain me") as a cautionary tale.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/02/jim-chanos-says-beware-the-v...
Will people really want this monstrosity around post-pandemic? I hope we can somehow miraculously get back to normal work just as this device enters the market in August, and we will have an epic failure called DTEN ME (which sounds like "detain me") as a cautionary tale.
Zoom may well be overvalued, but it is doubtless more valuable on a long-term basis than it was pre-COVID. So many firms in expensive cities will have permanently adapted to a world in which they can access talent from places with lower costs of living, and Zoom is an indelible part of that narrative.
Zoom had pretty substantial market share pre-pandemic. It was essentially the incumbent best product when the pandemic hit. Having used a bunch, I think it's definitely the best enterprise product out there. It's superior to the old gen products like WebEx and has more features than things like Meet and better UX than Teams. I'm hoping the market gets more competition, but Zoom absolutely deserves it's spot at #1.
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HN crowd might diss this product but if you consider all those execs and managers in medium/large corporations that rely on personal assistants to get their email and meetings sorted out this might be very successful.
Seems to be the perfect use case for them "It also syncs with your calendar and displays your upcoming meetings in a menu. (You can tap one to jump in.)"
Seems to be the perfect use case for them "It also syncs with your calendar and displays your upcoming meetings in a menu. (You can tap one to jump in.)"
> While $599 may seem like a steep price to pay for a Zoom-calling device when you can already Zoom from a phone or computer, the idea seems to be that it’s an easy way for newly remote employees to jump right into Zoom without having to deal with installing the software or setting up any complex equipment.
Hang on a minute... their partner manufactured hardware product is easier to setup than their own software?
How hard is it to install on the major OSes?
Seems like a strange angle.
Hang on a minute... their partner manufactured hardware product is easier to setup than their own software?
How hard is it to install on the major OSes?
Seems like a strange angle.
Yeah, this is sort of a silly statement from Verge. I suspect the point is to bring dedicated and high quality videoconferencing equipment into the home, so we don't have to deal with low quality, below face level webcams. I have to imagine the Cisco stuff you see in boardrooms costs quite a bit more.
Of course this hinges heavily on the quality of the user's WLAN / internet connection.
Of course this hinges heavily on the quality of the user's WLAN / internet connection.
We've trained people to be unable to install apps.
"Detain me"??
This is a smart move by Zoom. A lot of traditional companies with poor remote / WFH policies are looking for any "solution" to increase "productivity". I'm using quotes here because this product doesn't have to actually increase anything, just be marketable enough for some big corporation to shell out for 1000 of them to cope with the reality that offices won't reopen for a while.
I think there is a vacuum in this market for good products.
The Facebook portal is excellent and has basically no competition anywhere close to its price, but it requires use of Facebook (or Whatsapp).
I just want a decent camera/mic set up to attach to computer that's connected to my TV and all of the options are extremely expensive and thoroughly mediocre . I ended up getting the Logitech Meetup which required the proprietary expansion mic to work well enough in a relatively small room and was over one thousand dollars. The 'right sight' software still doesn't work.
The Zoom product is also a miss to me, I just want a decent room scale mic and camera to attach to a TV and use for videoconferencing. The Portal includes computing hardware and software to make calls, but really that's a bonus. The MeetUp is just a dumb camera/mic that requires a computer (which for me is perfect, I can use any video conferencing application that I want), the non-portal products that include compute hardware are usually around two thousand dollars.
At least this is more reasonable priced.
The Facebook portal is excellent and has basically no competition anywhere close to its price, but it requires use of Facebook (or Whatsapp).
I just want a decent camera/mic set up to attach to computer that's connected to my TV and all of the options are extremely expensive and thoroughly mediocre . I ended up getting the Logitech Meetup which required the proprietary expansion mic to work well enough in a relatively small room and was over one thousand dollars. The 'right sight' software still doesn't work.
The Zoom product is also a miss to me, I just want a decent room scale mic and camera to attach to a TV and use for videoconferencing. The Portal includes computing hardware and software to make calls, but really that's a bonus. The MeetUp is just a dumb camera/mic that requires a computer (which for me is perfect, I can use any video conferencing application that I want), the non-portal products that include compute hardware are usually around two thousand dollars.
At least this is more reasonable priced.
Android TV, dev options turn the webcam support on plug in a USB webcam and you’re sorted.
The USB webcams suck though, I want a better quality camera and mic for the entire room.
Buy a better webcam, Logitech BCC950 works on my Sony A1, for mic you can use any BT/wireless USB microphone if the one on the webcam doesn’t work well enough in your room.
Konftel cameras also work, just limit yourself to 1080p unless your TV has USB 3.0.
Konftel cameras also work, just limit yourself to 1080p unless your TV has USB 3.0.
The in-laws bought us a Facebook portal to keep in touch with the grandkids. It is kept unplugged and in a drawer except for when in use. We only use it for WhatsApp calling and it is an impressive device, excellent voice quality and tracking camera for the price.I'm just annoyed it doesn't work with jitsi...or zoom or Google meet/hangouts. Same problem as this zoom device, what happens if you need to join a WhatsApp call or something else...surely it's feasible to build a dedicated video calling device on Android that is multi platform at this price point.
> surely it's feasible to build a dedicated video calling device on Android that is multi platform at this price point.
Yes, but will it still be easy to use? I'd wished there would be a standard way to encode voice, so that various applications, devices and service providers were compatible. You know, like phone service used to be ...
Yes, but will it still be easy to use? I'd wished there would be a standard way to encode voice, so that various applications, devices and service providers were compatible. You know, like phone service used to be ...
Somebody else is making the hardware, and most of the rationale for this is fairly absurd -- A new device is easier than an install? The hardest part of starting remote work isn't your job, it is getting on a Zoom call?
This feels like a joint marketing stunt more than a new product.
This feels like a joint marketing stunt more than a new product.
I dislike the idea of these sorts of single-purpose devices when you know it’s just standard hardware and could be a full blown device if it wasn’t locked down.
You know what would be better? A Roku-type device meant to sit on top of any old monitor/TV with integrated microphone/speakers/camera and HDMI out. With support for bluetooth headsets and or HDMI audio out maybe.
You know what would be better? A Roku-type device meant to sit on top of any old monitor/TV with integrated microphone/speakers/camera and HDMI out. With support for bluetooth headsets and or HDMI audio out maybe.
Okay... from TechCrunch: "not Bluetooth".
Also it says it emits from "18 and 22 kHz" which "most people can't hear". Um, most adults. 18-22 kHz is DEFINITELY audible to teenagers and children. Or how about a dog! On the flipside, insects don't like hypersonic frequencies either, maybe I'll get less bites. Anyone remember mosquito ringtones blaring during class where the teacher would not even notice? That's how they get kids to quit loitering. So that might be a benefit for the WFH parent. This is what they use to see babies so imagine what it can see beyond your camera.
I already know from using ultrasonic devices that I can hear this. They're loud and sound weird.
From my understanding, frequencies in that range also interfere with hearing aids, monitors, and smart devices. In my head I'm like oh man, a bigger microphone array is going to make harvesting that audio data so much sweeter, that's a huge value proposition! If those devices are vulnerable to 'dolphin' attacks, or inaudible commands, this is yet another security concern.
I wonder if they'll include support to map the acoustics and layout of your room through sound detection for projection optimization. Scary and enticing. This seems like a reasonably well designed tool that can either make my life more productive or help destroy it simultaneously. I mean if it's covered as an office expense, it's better than opting for webcam, monitor, microphone, speakers in a more svelte package.
Apologies if this comment seems par for the norm to hate on Zoom. I'm actively trying to give them the benefit of the doubt to balance discussion here, but some of these choices are specifically bad.