An example of how brands build fake reviews on Amazon(reddit.com)
reddit.com
An example of how brands build fake reviews on Amazon
https://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/g19a1w/heres_a_brand_thats_building_its_reviews_steadily/
134 comments
That ship has sailed, in my opinion.
Reviews - particularly on Amazon - are meaningless. The cat-and-mouse game has gone so far that as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating. Buying from an unknown brand is a crapshoot. Buying from a known brand on Amazon isn't much better.
And it makes me wonder how long these black hat practices are going to be useful to sellers. Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this point.
Reviews - particularly on Amazon - are meaningless. The cat-and-mouse game has gone so far that as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating. Buying from an unknown brand is a crapshoot. Buying from a known brand on Amazon isn't much better.
And it makes me wonder how long these black hat practices are going to be useful to sellers. Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this point.
> as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating.
I've been an Amazon customer for more than 20 years. Yes, both the 5-star reviews and 1-star reviews can be gamed. Many 5-stars reviews are fake because of bribery. Many 1-star reviews are from competitors trying to hurt their rivals.
That said, I still find Amazon reviews useful if I read the texts instead of depending on the number of stars. I go to the 3-star and 2-star reviews and read the specific complaints customers are writing about. Some reviewers also post useful photos.
For example, I needed to buy a guest bed for COVID quarantine so I looked for "air mattress" on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=air+mattress
Most of those have 5-star reviews. I ignore that and simply read the texts. After digesting some reviews, I learn that all air mattresses regardless of brand suffer from leakage (usually after the 30-day return period). Some recommended getting a foldable foam mattress as an alternative to totally avoid the issues with leaks and broken air pumps. That's what I ended up buying and it was the Amazon reviews that steered me away from air mattresses.
I've been an Amazon customer for more than 20 years. Yes, both the 5-star reviews and 1-star reviews can be gamed. Many 5-stars reviews are fake because of bribery. Many 1-star reviews are from competitors trying to hurt their rivals.
That said, I still find Amazon reviews useful if I read the texts instead of depending on the number of stars. I go to the 3-star and 2-star reviews and read the specific complaints customers are writing about. Some reviewers also post useful photos.
For example, I needed to buy a guest bed for COVID quarantine so I looked for "air mattress" on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=air+mattress
Most of those have 5-star reviews. I ignore that and simply read the texts. After digesting some reviews, I learn that all air mattresses regardless of brand suffer from leakage (usually after the 30-day return period). Some recommended getting a foldable foam mattress as an alternative to totally avoid the issues with leaks and broken air pumps. That's what I ended up buying and it was the Amazon reviews that steered me away from air mattresses.
You can usually pick out fake reviews by the language. No human I've ever met would write about an 'excellent product' - that's the language of a marketeer.
Also 5 star reviews can be honest and useful; examine the text for credibility then look at other reviews by the same person. If they're all 5 star then you most likely have a stinker, but some measured criticism and other, lower starred reviews may show validity.
Also 5 star reviews can be honest and useful; examine the text for credibility then look at other reviews by the same person. If they're all 5 star then you most likely have a stinker, but some measured criticism and other, lower starred reviews may show validity.
Human beings never used to write reviews. They were either repeat customers or they weren’t. I have never felt writing a review. So what if you have a good product, or something I may like. Why should I tell the whole world? I’d rather do word to mouth. Your product - good or bad - will adjust based on demand and supply on its own.
Amazon’s reviews are like old Yahoo’s news comment streams (same as YouTube today). I’d like to think average/sane human beings do not spend their time compulsively hanging out at such joints.
The best sensible thing Amazon could do is list the number of repeat customers against the number of sell. That would be honest and fair.
Amazon’s reviews are like old Yahoo’s news comment streams (same as YouTube today). I’d like to think average/sane human beings do not spend their time compulsively hanging out at such joints.
The best sensible thing Amazon could do is list the number of repeat customers against the number of sell. That would be honest and fair.
I find it amusing how my attitude toward writing reviews changed. Early on I used to feel that we, the little people, can use the Internet for good, band together, and share information about products to "stick it to the man." Nowadays, I feel writing reviews is ironically only helping the richest man in the world and now actively avoid it.
Sites like Amazon need the review layer to substitute the physical contact of brick and mortar that they removed. Pretty common story by now - instead of paying employees in stores, they crowd source the value for free, and we're happy to go along since we get lower prices in the bargain.
Sites like Amazon need the review layer to substitute the physical contact of brick and mortar that they removed. Pretty common story by now - instead of paying employees in stores, they crowd source the value for free, and we're happy to go along since we get lower prices in the bargain.
> Pretty common story by now - instead of paying employees in stores, they crowd source the value for free, and we're happy to go along since we get lower prices in the bargain.
That's a win-win eliminating a bullshit job.
That's a win-win eliminating a bullshit job.
>Why should I tell the whole world?
I can get useful insights from reviews so I also like to contribute back if I find something worth mentioning.
Reading reviews without contributing them is a form of freeloading.
I can get useful insights from reviews so I also like to contribute back if I find something worth mentioning.
Reading reviews without contributing them is a form of freeloading.
There's a very thick line indeed between not writing any reviews and being 'compulsive' as you put it. Why do you have to phrase it such an extreme way?
I write a few reviews because if something is particularly good or useful, or very bad, I want others to benefit from that.
I write a few reviews because if something is particularly good or useful, or very bad, I want others to benefit from that.
I think the QA section should serve that purpose. Say that you got something bad and has negative review to tell. First of all, you have to eliminate your subjectivity (whether it is just you and your one specific product out of the lot, or is it everyone and everything out of the lot). Only the vendor can help you here first, and not the whole world. If the vendor is bad, then it is the platform’s fault (they didn’t help themselves by helping host the vendor). The best you can do is ask a ‘why’ question (why it is broken, or why it is not as advertised). Enough people asking the same, would naturally help everyone.
Now say you got something good. Again, you have to first eliminate your subjectivity. Why should the world care if you like something? But you want to help others make a good decision. Fine. Let them ask questions genuinely and then you can answer. Platform should let that happen because otherwise vendor would never let others answer on their behalf. QA should be the only place for interaction. Question should only be posed by potential customers. Answers, only by known customers.
Crowd sourced reviews are first and foremost subjective. They spawn either a fan boy syndrome or ‘I’m going to get’ you syndrome. If not either of them then they have spawned a whole new underground market of their own. Indeed, they have not proven to naturally balance the real and legitimate market; otherwise, they wouldn’t have been gamed. But Amazon does have QA alongside reviews. This makes it obvious that reviews are their cash cows using/abusing human psychology - of greed and gratification.
Now say you got something good. Again, you have to first eliminate your subjectivity. Why should the world care if you like something? But you want to help others make a good decision. Fine. Let them ask questions genuinely and then you can answer. Platform should let that happen because otherwise vendor would never let others answer on their behalf. QA should be the only place for interaction. Question should only be posed by potential customers. Answers, only by known customers.
Crowd sourced reviews are first and foremost subjective. They spawn either a fan boy syndrome or ‘I’m going to get’ you syndrome. If not either of them then they have spawned a whole new underground market of their own. Indeed, they have not proven to naturally balance the real and legitimate market; otherwise, they wouldn’t have been gamed. But Amazon does have QA alongside reviews. This makes it obvious that reviews are their cash cows using/abusing human psychology - of greed and gratification.
Hey! Marketers are people too. Haha. I worked in retail. Worked in marketing/graphic design. Worked as a cook for a few years. We called everything products.
So how do you tell? IMHO, it’s not the word phrase, but the word count. If you’re saying too many ‘just nice’ things —repetitive — you prolly want something.
Also, Amazon is frigging annoying about how much they ask you to comment. When And if I do it’s usually terse.
So how do you tell? IMHO, it’s not the word phrase, but the word count. If you’re saying too many ‘just nice’ things —repetitive — you prolly want something.
Also, Amazon is frigging annoying about how much they ask you to comment. When And if I do it’s usually terse.
> Marketers are people too.
Yeah. People who should kill themselves – according to the late, great Bill Hicks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUd6ARKcPS0
Upvoted in any case.
Yeah. People who should kill themselves – according to the late, great Bill Hicks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUd6ARKcPS0
Upvoted in any case.
OH! You mean MBAs. Yeah. They suck. haha
> Marketers are people too
Sometimes.... :)
Sometimes.... :)
> Yes, both the 5-star reviews and 1-star reviews can be gamed.
You don't look for that <i> Verified purchase </i> text ?
You don't look for that <i> Verified purchase </i> text ?
>You don't look for that <i> Verified purchase </i> text ?
If you're not being sarcastic...
Those "Verified Purchase" reviews can also be faked by manufacturers/sellers reimbursing the credit-card payment of the Amazon shopper.
Example: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon...
If you're not being sarcastic...
Those "Verified Purchase" reviews can also be faked by manufacturers/sellers reimbursing the credit-card payment of the Amazon shopper.
Example: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon...
I bought something from Amazon, and it wasn't up to spec, so I left a 3-star review.
Well, I got contacted by the seller, offering me $20 to take down the review. I ignored it.
Then a few weeks later, they upped the offer. And in response, I downed the stars.
Last I heard from them, they were offering me $70 to take down the review. For something that cost under $15.
Amazon itself doesn't help either. I bought something (a food item) from Amazon, and it was nowhere close to the quality in the photographs or description. I wrote a review, describing how the actual item was of much lower quality than expected. Amazon refused to post my review! And I've been an Amazon customer for nearly 20 years!
Well, I got contacted by the seller, offering me $20 to take down the review. I ignored it.
Then a few weeks later, they upped the offer. And in response, I downed the stars.
Last I heard from them, they were offering me $70 to take down the review. For something that cost under $15.
Amazon itself doesn't help either. I bought something (a food item) from Amazon, and it was nowhere close to the quality in the photographs or description. I wrote a review, describing how the actual item was of much lower quality than expected. Amazon refused to post my review! And I've been an Amazon customer for nearly 20 years!
I reported someone trying to bribe me to remove a review. Amazon passed it along to them and the company started emailing me creepy stalker stuff about my Instagram.
I've had this same experience. After all the pestering and offers of cash to remove my 3 star review, I lowered it to 1 star.
Sounds like a business model to me. Leave a 3 star review, and if they try to bribe you $X threaten them to lower it to 1 star unless they pay $2X.
People do this. I used to sell a lot on Amazon. I would occasionally get a non-coherent one star review and then a message basically trying to extort a full refund in exchange for removing the review. And no, it wasn't because the book was in bad condition, they can always return for a full refund. They want to keep the book and get a full refund.
I was (obviously) joking but this is really a sad thing to hear.
There's truth behind every joke.
And this really is a decent biz model. I mean, free items, just sell them for 50% and you can make a living.
Scale this up using multiple amazon accounts, multiple addresses.
The market is big enough so that you can make a living out of this, I'm sure.
And your x2 multiplier makes it even easier!
And this really is a decent biz model. I mean, free items, just sell them for 50% and you can make a living.
Scale this up using multiple amazon accounts, multiple addresses.
The market is big enough so that you can make a living out of this, I'm sure.
And your x2 multiplier makes it even easier!
[deleted]
Great time to no longer use their services!
Scammers have made that useless. They have you buy the product, then reimburse you for it... if you review it well. Free product for you, five star verified review for them.
I would be tempted to do so only to lower the review after the charge back window closed.
Last time I bought a power supply from Amazon I got an email from the seller saying that they'd give me a $20 Steam Credit if I left a 5 star review. It made me consider returning the Power Supply.
LastPass was offering something like $10 for anyone that left a review on G2 (from RSA Conf). The kicker was I did this and they never even honored it.
Lastpass has gone to crap IMO since their sell to logmein
often if reviews were boosted, the most recent reviews will take a plunge. So I tend to focus on recent reviews.
Reviews still have one purpose left: On a product I'm about to buy, I'll read a handfull of 2-star-reviews and look for frequent problems and failure modes of the product. If I find them convincing and relevant to my use case, I maybe refrain from buying.
But other than that, reviews are at best useless or at worst criminally misleading.
But other than that, reviews are at best useless or at worst criminally misleading.
Those are often fake, too, though.
Maybe. But a vendor not getting rid of such fake negatives (which is said to be easily possible) is at least a bad sign of apathy and neglect from the vendor.
And since not buying is the safer choice anyways, the existence of fake negatives isn't that much of a problem.
And since not buying is the safer choice anyways, the existence of fake negatives isn't that much of a problem.
You prefer vendors who manipulate reviews over ones who focus on the product and service?
I do prefer a vendor who gets rid of obvious fake reviews. As always, I can only hope they leave the legitimate ones alone. But in general, a vendor should at least read and handle reviews, leading immediately to a better product and service. Reviews are the simplest way for a customer to provide feedback. And some review hygiene, removing the fake ones, is also part of customer service, enabling the customer to get an objective impression.
One-offs, maybe, but trends are less likely to be fake. For example, when buying a dryer, I looked at many 1-2 star reviews for each product to spot the problems that most people reported. Finally I found one where the only problem frequently reported was that the lint trap would snap in half after a couple of years, because of the plastic hinges. No other problems, and the replacement lint traps were easy to acquire, so I could live with that.
> trends are less likely to be fake
I understand why someone would think that, and I do it myself too, but do we have evidence that it's true?
I understand why someone would think that, and I do it myself too, but do we have evidence that it's true?
probably not the ones with the device failing documented by photos.
Noticed this myself when looking at a certain TV, all negative reviews were about a missing app which could be downloaded in 10 seconds.
In categories with little product differentiation - like supplements - I'll even avoid products with 4.5+ stars (unless I trust the brand).
For some reason, all the products with fake reviews hang around the 4.4-4.7 rating mark. They're seldom 4-stars or lower
For some reason, all the products with fake reviews hang around the 4.4-4.7 rating mark. They're seldom 4-stars or lower
I love Amazon, but refuse to buy supplements from them at this point. Fraud via co-mingling is real, and I’d rather burn down my house from a crappy wire than ingest powder from an unvetted source.
I went back to the old brick and mortar for my protein powder (though I’d also be willing to buy online from non-marketplace sources that take ownership of the supply chain).
Again, I love Amazon. But if they refuse to take responsibility for whatever arrives at my house no way is it going into my mouth...
I went back to the old brick and mortar for my protein powder (though I’d also be willing to buy online from non-marketplace sources that take ownership of the supply chain).
Again, I love Amazon. But if they refuse to take responsibility for whatever arrives at my house no way is it going into my mouth...
There are things I refuse to buy on Amazon. Anything ingestible is on that list. I tend to steer away from brands that clearly are just a small set up shop. Often times I will buy something from another website because I just trust that place more.
Shout out to this service and extension that helps a bit:
https://www.fakespot.com/
An example product with adjusted ratings:
https://www.fakespot.com/product/quickie-bulldozer-24-inch-m...
> Our engine has profiled the reviewer patterns and has determined that there is high deception involved.
https://www.fakespot.com/
An example product with adjusted ratings:
https://www.fakespot.com/product/quickie-bulldozer-24-inch-m...
> Our engine has profiled the reviewer patterns and has determined that there is high deception involved.
This site thinks that "71.2% of the reviews are reliable" for the product in the article (Fish Oil supplement).
I went to purchase a replacement iphone audio jack adapter today and I felt totally unable to determine the best option. One vendor's adapter appeared about 6times in the first page of results and one of their reviews warned of fake reviews.
No cheaper than elsewhere, Amazon is chaos now.
No cheaper than elsewhere, Amazon is chaos now.
And unfortunately, Amazon has little incentive to stop that. They don't care whether you buy product A or product B as long as you buy them on Amazon. Given that people compare ratings on their platform, it's a safe bet that they'll buy there whatever they decide on.
The official Vine club hands out 5s on a suspicious scale as well - and even though the reviewers are marked by the little Vine badge, it looks more like a verification check mark than an ad disclosure, likely boosting the signal instead of dampening it.
The official Vine club hands out 5s on a suspicious scale as well - and even though the reviewers are marked by the little Vine badge, it looks more like a verification check mark than an ad disclosure, likely boosting the signal instead of dampening it.
I'll bite - how does incentive have anything to do with a task that is essentially impossible to stop at large? There will always be someone gaming it to boost sales and work around it.
It seems a bit like complaining that a surgeon that does autopsies doesn't raise the dead.
It seems a bit like complaining that a surgeon that does autopsies doesn't raise the dead.
Amazon actively ignores reports such as the OPs, has corruption in its ranks and even has programs like Vine to generate overly positive reviews. Even if Amazon could not stop review crime, it could end its complicity in it and drastically reduce it. This doesn't happen because a) it costs money and b) it might reduce sales. Incentives are very clear and relevant in this situation.
That’s despicable. That behaviour must surely adjust your perception of their character.
I’ve done it too, you get lots of free stuff in exchange for writing reviews. One would be stupid not to take advantage of that.
So you get free stuff, and you poison the environment of reviews for the rest of us.
I wish we could figure out some incentive for people -- both individually and corporately -- to behave less selfishly, but it seems to be a hard problem.
I wish we could figure out some incentive for people -- both individually and corporately -- to behave less selfishly, but it seems to be a hard problem.
It’s practically Darwinism—ignore reviews, or suffer.
Another name for it is being maliciously or callously antisocial. I wish fewer people desired to tear apart the social fabric for short term personal gain. A world where people could trust each other would be a better world for everyone including you.
I came across one of those kickback-for-5-star-reviews thing once. There is absolutely no way to report it to Amazon even with proof.
Even worse, I once had a terrible experience with a product. Arrived beat to hell and very clearly just a cheap product. I left a review (maybe my third review ever?) and it was removed.
You can pay for good reviews, but legitimate complaints might be removed.
You can pay for good reviews, but legitimate complaints might be removed.
> Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be
TBH, I think reviews, more than code, wants to be free. Amazon do a fine service providing a platform for product reviews, but I worry all this data now belongs to a private biased entity. Open reviews, anyone?
TBH, I think reviews, more than code, wants to be free. Amazon do a fine service providing a platform for product reviews, but I worry all this data now belongs to a private biased entity. Open reviews, anyone?
That is why I think AmazonBasics, Amazon fulfilled and Amazon whitelists are getting incredibly popular. (I am a Costco shopper for similar reason. Only if a similar product is not available on Costco I go to Amazon).
AmazonBasics is no better, they just slap the Amazon brand onto cheaply manufactured goods with no quality control. For instance, the sponsored AmazonBasics cable for the search "USB to USB C" [1] is an extreme fire hazard due to non-compliance with the USB-C spec, as demonstrated by some reviewers.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Type-C-USB-Male-Cable/dp...
[1] https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Type-C-USB-Male-Cable/dp...
My Amazon Basics HDMI cables from years ago are the only HDMI cables I've ever had that went bad
There was a post on HN awhile back that was a blog post by a lady that was involved. She got into it thinking it would be good to make some money but she ended up with so much crap that she couldn't give it away (or sell it).
EDIT Here is the article
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon...
And the corresponding HN discussion
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21593480
EDIT Here is the article
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon...
And the corresponding HN discussion
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21593480
I posted a negative review of an inexpensive (~$10) electronic device on Amazon. A few weeks later, the seller contacted me with an offer of a $20 Amazon gift certificate to take it down. I didn't respond. A few days later, they offered $30, then $40, then $50.
yes, maybe I'd taken that deal. that's even better than the stupid seller once nagging me for 2 months (!) that I should take their shitty 20€-bluetooth-adapter (noisy af) for free, because they are such a nice company... Ehm yes (then bought Fiio for 5€ more (and worse reviews!), which is "a brand" (albeit a chinese one) and works very well).
I'd tell them, "OK, I'll change it", and change it to describe their bribe.
Amazon should provide a straightforward way for you to report that, and after confirming it, should ban the seller from their platform.
They don't? OK, that tells us something.
They don't? OK, that tells us something.
The problem with such drastic measures is that it is very difficult to actually prove that the seller did that. You could record the call as proof, but then your competitor can game the system by creating fake recordings and take you down.
Such terminal punishments will be worse for the platform as a whole.
Such terminal punishments will be worse for the platform as a whole.
> The problem with such drastic measures is that it is very difficult to actually prove that the seller did that.
I would imagine most of these communications are happening over email. Maybe even over Amazon's own messaging system.
I would imagine most of these communications are happening over email. Maybe even over Amazon's own messaging system.
It's very easy to spoof email addresses. Moreover, I too get many such calls and they are usually over phone. If Amazon starts using emails as evidence, sellers will move to other methods that are hard to trace. And methods that are hard to trace, are vulnerable to being faked.
Amazon itself could spoof emails, so that it simultaneously detects consumers that bite, discarding their feedback and thus removing the incentive to try and bribe consumers for positive or negative feedback.
The most elegant solution would of course be sybil free identities, ... but how do we allow for companies to possess an email adress or identity? by the concept of capacities ("hoedanigheid" in dutch): we would need to formalize the concept of communicating in a specific capacity such as saying something as a citizen, saying something in the capacity as a superior role in a company to someone with an inferior role etc...
Consider those superiors, doctors, ... occasionally (or systematically) abusing their power.
For example a citizen is entirely free to ask another citizen for a sexual favor, but depending on jurisdiction a superior can not ask this of a subjugated employee. Either the favor is explicitly asked in the role of a citizen, in which case the receiver can safely discard the message without getting accused of disobeying a superior, or the favor is explicitly asked in the capacity of a superior in which case a crime may have been commited and the receiver can demonstrate it.
This is a relatively simple example but for the greyer areas it localizes which people in a company actually crossed the line and forces all employees regardless of level to think and consider the legality of what they are asking from or being asked by another employee. For example who decided to fake emissions tests at some car company?
The most elegant solution would of course be sybil free identities, ... but how do we allow for companies to possess an email adress or identity? by the concept of capacities ("hoedanigheid" in dutch): we would need to formalize the concept of communicating in a specific capacity such as saying something as a citizen, saying something in the capacity as a superior role in a company to someone with an inferior role etc...
Consider those superiors, doctors, ... occasionally (or systematically) abusing their power.
For example a citizen is entirely free to ask another citizen for a sexual favor, but depending on jurisdiction a superior can not ask this of a subjugated employee. Either the favor is explicitly asked in the role of a citizen, in which case the receiver can safely discard the message without getting accused of disobeying a superior, or the favor is explicitly asked in the capacity of a superior in which case a crime may have been commited and the receiver can demonstrate it.
This is a relatively simple example but for the greyer areas it localizes which people in a company actually crossed the line and forces all employees regardless of level to think and consider the legality of what they are asking from or being asked by another employee. For example who decided to fake emissions tests at some car company?
> sellers will move to other methods that are hard to trace
Just disallow it. Buyers won't care.
Just disallow it. Buyers won't care.
My wife posted a 1 star review on a crappy bookshelf that didn't fit the description (not wood, wrong color) and was structurally weak.
On year later, she received an email threatening a defamation lawsuit unless she takes down the review. Looking at the seller reviews, it looks like this wasn't an isolated incident as other people were complaining. Obviously, this doesn't hold legally. But we are left with the feeling that they might still try to challenge us legally at any time, which is a really unpleasant feeling.
On year later, she received an email threatening a defamation lawsuit unless she takes down the review. Looking at the seller reviews, it looks like this wasn't an isolated incident as other people were complaining. Obviously, this doesn't hold legally. But we are left with the feeling that they might still try to challenge us legally at any time, which is a really unpleasant feeling.
I'm honestly shocked that sellers can send us emails. Like, why does Amazon share that information with sellers in the first place?
"I look forward to refuting your claims in court, recouping my legal costs, and publicizing your misbehavior."
Is this some form of extortion?
Why did the seller get your information to contact you? Seems to me that should not be allowed.
I just bought a bluetooth headset from Amazon, brand is Mpow which sells a ton of electronics. In the box there is a card that says "You've been chosen as a lucky customer to get an Amazon Gift Card". It instructs me to write a review "in 1 to 5 stars" then take a picture and send to their gmail address. It also says "For your Amazon account security, do not attach this card picture on your review when you leave a review."
I suspect they get around certain TOS violations by saying "1 to 5 stars on Amazon."
I suspect they get around certain TOS violations by saying "1 to 5 stars on Amazon."
I don't get that at all.
Mpow makes cheap waterproof wireless earphones. I've bought 2 pairs, the first gave up after a few years of brutal workouts.
They sound horrible, but they are waterproof and cheap. They have the $20 workout bluetooth headset market on lockdown.
Why would they even bother to pay for reviews?
Mpow makes cheap waterproof wireless earphones. I've bought 2 pairs, the first gave up after a few years of brutal workouts.
They sound horrible, but they are waterproof and cheap. They have the $20 workout bluetooth headset market on lockdown.
Why would they even bother to pay for reviews?
Competition.
I recall trying to leave a negative review on a set of nail clippers. I assumed it didn't matter how low quality they were, just as long as they cut nails. Little did I know that I received a set of 3 that weren't aligned by what looks like design to cut nails.
I tried to leave a review with what I said above, but it was flagged and removed. I got an email that it didn't meet review requirements.
I tried to leave a review with what I said above, but it was flagged and removed. I got an email that it didn't meet review requirements.
Just reporting that I had a similar experience leaving a negative review before, or rather not being able to do so.
For an example of really stupid reviews of this type, check this one out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c4mCXK9kIU
The people who provide the text templates for these bots really miss creativity. After reading just one or two you realize what's going on. It would be really easy to make them look more authentic just by not going over the top.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c4mCXK9kIU
The people who provide the text templates for these bots really miss creativity. After reading just one or two you realize what's going on. It would be really easy to make them look more authentic just by not going over the top.
Maybe the fake reviews are there to make you focus on the legit looking one or two reviews that are some part critical but have 4.5 star rating.
I used to work in this space. It is incredibly easy to detect and counter. It just costs money. Amazons retail margins are too good to mess with. Customers are not leaving fast enough to make fixing it worth it. Every time you produce a model showing net present value going down due to fraud someone else will produce one that doesn’t. That guy gets promoted.
Amazon is simply cashing in on its reputation. Once it’s gone you might as well buy from the Chinese source. People used to search stores for things they’d buy cheaper on Amazon. Now people are searching Amazon for things they’ll buy cheaper Alibaba.
Personally, I’ve already shifted to buying DIY tools and supplies directly from China. I found the quality good enough. Some of the industrial consumables you can’t even buy retail in the US. For the high end stuff I buy direct from outlets. I don’t trust Amazon with that either. I could see a future where Amazon gets squeezed from both ends.
Amazon is simply cashing in on its reputation. Once it’s gone you might as well buy from the Chinese source. People used to search stores for things they’d buy cheaper on Amazon. Now people are searching Amazon for things they’ll buy cheaper Alibaba.
Personally, I’ve already shifted to buying DIY tools and supplies directly from China. I found the quality good enough. Some of the industrial consumables you can’t even buy retail in the US. For the high end stuff I buy direct from outlets. I don’t trust Amazon with that either. I could see a future where Amazon gets squeezed from both ends.
The advantage of Amazon over buying directly from China is the fast shipping (if you have prime) and the no hassle return policy. I made the mistake of buying some masks through an ad on a website. While the masks were fine, what they didn't mention was that it took six weeks to deliver. There are plenty of negatives with Amazon (fake reviews, fake products, etc.) but fast shipping and guaranteed returns cover a multitude of sins.
You're just paying the markup for a domestic retailer to sell you the same thing you can buy on Aliexpress.
I've done returns on Aliexpress before. I didn't have to send anything back and I got a 100% refund.
I've done returns on Aliexpress before. I didn't have to send anything back and I got a 100% refund.
for basic, small stuff, which I actually need fast, at this point, I've switched to local stores, because as Amazon prices at this point (Europe) already include a heavy postage margin, the store is generally 2/3 of the price (up to around 10€ - e.g. kitchen hardware, paper stuff).
That's especially apparent for stuff like USB-cables, where you have a hard-time finding (in the worst search experience on this planet) the few cost-competitive offers (on the marketplace, and they are ridiculous - like 1.5€ delivered with prime the next day). For "Amazon recommended", topsellers or their basic line, it's basically that if you need more than 1 cable (or buy one of the 3-packs...) you can order at a speciality store, pay 6€ shipping and 2€ for the cables (in much better quality - still marginally more expensive for one-off and "I need it now"-things, but as both things are not really sustainable, I consider this a bad habit as well....).
That's especially apparent for stuff like USB-cables, where you have a hard-time finding (in the worst search experience on this planet) the few cost-competitive offers (on the marketplace, and they are ridiculous - like 1.5€ delivered with prime the next day). For "Amazon recommended", topsellers or their basic line, it's basically that if you need more than 1 cable (or buy one of the 3-packs...) you can order at a speciality store, pay 6€ shipping and 2€ for the cables (in much better quality - still marginally more expensive for one-off and "I need it now"-things, but as both things are not really sustainable, I consider this a bad habit as well....).
I am a minority but I never fully jumped on Amazon bandwagon. Compared to US, here in Switzerland they simply don't exist. Sending here from ie french or german site adds a massive postage fee on top of delay, and most of the times custom fee, so price skyrockets. Plus having warranty elsewhere ain't worth it in times when tons of stuff breaks quickly.
One good thing that french amazon has - they can deliver to a network of 'post boxes' or compatible small shops to pick up the item usually within a week. That's basically about it, things ain't cheaper, and when ordering from china I don't have that doubt about quality - it is normally on the level of payment.
These days, aliexpress and similar fill the needs.
One good thing that french amazon has - they can deliver to a network of 'post boxes' or compatible small shops to pick up the item usually within a week. That's basically about it, things ain't cheaper, and when ordering from china I don't have that doubt about quality - it is normally on the level of payment.
These days, aliexpress and similar fill the needs.
Amazon is not nearly as dominant in EU as in the US.
I think we will soon see large Chinese companies establishing themselves in Europe and take market share from both local stores and Amazon.
Many large sellers on AliExpress have already started delivering from their European warehouses.
I think we will soon see large Chinese companies establishing themselves in Europe and take market share from both local stores and Amazon.
Many large sellers on AliExpress have already started delivering from their European warehouses.
When I use amazon reviews I look at what people complain about and work out if that would annoy me as well
Same here, I simply look at 1-star reviews and ignore that there are 100x 5-star reviews.
Note that this won't work on sites where the seller can delay publishing your review (e.g AliExpress).
Note that this won't work on sites where the seller can delay publishing your review (e.g AliExpress).
I really wonder what could be the solution to this. Reviews are a mainstay on the web. It's the underlying social experience of it.
But given the untrustworthy nature of reviews in general, I hope there is some method to capture genuine reviews, filter out the noise and filter up the relevant ones.
Perhaps tech like blockchains could help here, but their use is limited to anonymous identity. Its easy to create enough accounts to influence the system.
The only feasible way seems to have direct user accounts that are tied to actual people, something like on facebook. But that is a privacy issue.
Eventually, e-Commerce might devolve into brands and off brands, where the platform becomes irrelevant and other forms of advertising and marketing take control.
But given the untrustworthy nature of reviews in general, I hope there is some method to capture genuine reviews, filter out the noise and filter up the relevant ones.
Perhaps tech like blockchains could help here, but their use is limited to anonymous identity. Its easy to create enough accounts to influence the system.
The only feasible way seems to have direct user accounts that are tied to actual people, something like on facebook. But that is a privacy issue.
Eventually, e-Commerce might devolve into brands and off brands, where the platform becomes irrelevant and other forms of advertising and marketing take control.
Without a functioning trust network, reviews are meaningless. You cannot have both anonymity and healthy e-commerce. We're in a race to the bottom, and there is no "invisible hand" to right the ship. Government will ultimately have to step in with some kind of online ID system.
It should be sufficient if the ID system has all the characteristics of a real world ID system, with just the real world link broken.
Inability to easily create multiple IDs for 1 person, One ID linked to one individual, inability to easily use another persons ID, etc.
Inability to easily create multiple IDs for 1 person, One ID linked to one individual, inability to easily use another persons ID, etc.
I think ID is an essential core function of government. Without it, for instance, there could be no justice system. I don't know that an ID system not grounded in the physical world is workable. Jurisdiction is ultimately determined by physical location.
Even with a sufficient ID system, what's to stop brands from bribing individuals for positive reviews?
That is possible, but bribing one individual is very risky for a brand. Mainly because, there are only so many things an individual can influence, and once his reputation is tarnished, the brands reputation is tarnished. So the risk is much higher than, say hiring a company to spam reviews.
Do services like Fakespot [1] for evaluating reviews work and, if so, how?
[1] https://www.fakespot.com/
[1] https://www.fakespot.com/
My own personal rule is now:
> I don't buy anything I'll put in/on/around my body on Amazon (e.g. Vitamin supplements, Lotion/face sunscreen, Protein powder)
Even if the brand is legit, I'm still not 100% confident that Amazon's co-mingling stock and switcheroos that can happen in the long supply chain will result in a "real" thing arriving at my door
> I don't buy anything I'll put in/on/around my body on Amazon (e.g. Vitamin supplements, Lotion/face sunscreen, Protein powder)
Even if the brand is legit, I'm still not 100% confident that Amazon's co-mingling stock and switcheroos that can happen in the long supply chain will result in a "real" thing arriving at my door
How about eg. phone chargers or toasters? Cooking pots? The list of things that can seriously hurt you far extend edible goods.
I don't buy much from amazon these days, but yeah, definitely bought some higher end shaving cream that I later realized was probably not authentic. It's getting easier to buy direct from brands, and I feel safer buying this kinda stuff from target or whatever locally.
I've lived by this rule too ever since I got a bottle of "One A Day" multivitamins that invariably made me vomit 10 minutes after taking one. (Embarrassingly, I didn't give up on them until maybe the fifth time it happened.)
I'm to the point I only buy things on Amazon that have no foreseeable downsides if they are counterfeit. Based on some recent purchases I made:
Fake tent stakes or juggling balls? Who cares.
Camping grill or coffee grinder? Not taking the chance when propane/fire or odd chemicals touching my drink could be involved.
Fake tent stakes or juggling balls? Who cares.
Camping grill or coffee grinder? Not taking the chance when propane/fire or odd chemicals touching my drink could be involved.
I see people mentioning Fakespot, I also recommend ReviewMeta and use it often: https://reviewmeta.com/
ReviewMeta for that product: https://reviewmeta.com/amazon/B08431MPXD
IMHO, they're too positive. If you scroll down, there's a lot of negative factors, but the above the fold summary is quite cheerful.
The FakeSpot page is much clearer.
https://www.fakespot.com/product/premium-omega-3-fish-oil-su...
IMHO, they're too positive. If you scroll down, there's a lot of negative factors, but the above the fold summary is quite cheerful.
The FakeSpot page is much clearer.
https://www.fakespot.com/product/premium-omega-3-fish-oil-su...
The UI isn't perfect, but the overall grade is fail even above the fold, which almost always means I won't buy the product.
The odd thing is that FakeSpot's "adjusted rating" is... the same as the actual rating.
ReviewMeta's is also the same, within the granularity of half a "star".
When the description does not follow basic English grammar (it’s a run in sentence with no caps or punctuation), that’s a red flag for me. Also, the image looks really doctored and not something that seems legit. It doesn’t look sharp if that makes sense.
Here’s the description for context:
“ omega 3 fish oil supplements fatty EPA DHA omega3 burpless capsules supplement pills soft gels men best vitamins omega-3 wild-caught natural women pure humans no burp small extra strength mercury-free fish oil”
If you buy this without reading everything in the product description, I’m sorry.
Here’s the description for context:
“ omega 3 fish oil supplements fatty EPA DHA omega3 burpless capsules supplement pills soft gels men best vitamins omega-3 wild-caught natural women pure humans no burp small extra strength mercury-free fish oil”
If you buy this without reading everything in the product description, I’m sorry.
You say "I'm sorry", but in context it really sounds like you're saying "fuck you".
I like to consider things this way...
At your local grocery store how vigilant are you that your orange juice carton might actually be filled with rat poison? Never crossed your mind? Very remote chance? Why? Because one item in a million is inspected by...who exactly? Think about how you'd feel if you found out one day that your grocery store actually gets its stock from a warehouse where sometimes cartons of OJ are replaced by rat poison on purpose by someone looking to make a buck at someone else's expense. You'd probably feel at least a little violated or betrayed. Aren't we all glad that we don't have to worry about shit like that at the grocery store? We shouldn't have to worry about shit like that from Amazon.
I like to consider things this way...
At your local grocery store how vigilant are you that your orange juice carton might actually be filled with rat poison? Never crossed your mind? Very remote chance? Why? Because one item in a million is inspected by...who exactly? Think about how you'd feel if you found out one day that your grocery store actually gets its stock from a warehouse where sometimes cartons of OJ are replaced by rat poison on purpose by someone looking to make a buck at someone else's expense. You'd probably feel at least a little violated or betrayed. Aren't we all glad that we don't have to worry about shit like that at the grocery store? We shouldn't have to worry about shit like that from Amazon.
Amazon's market has become a cesspool of many trash products with fly-by-night ALLCAPS Youtube-bro dropshipper "brands", if you can even call them that.
Amazon's fast and affordable shipping is addicting, but I've nonetheless steadily shifted my purchasing patterns away from Amazon.
Instead I tend to search Amazon (and Google, etc) to see what options are available, and buy them elsewhere if possible. Ideally directly from high-quality brands' websites, or alternately from smaller, specialized online retail outlets I trust more. Both tend to be more of a passion project and really care about what they're making and selling.
I may not receive the item as fast, but I've adjusted to that and realize in 99% of cases I don't really need that instant gratification.
In fact, fast shipping instant gratification seems more likely to tempt me into un-needed impulse purchases, and I'm better off without it. I make more planned and strategic purchases when I have to wait a little longer to receive them. Better for my personal financial planning and budgeting, and control of my lizard brain response.
Amazon's fast and affordable shipping is addicting, but I've nonetheless steadily shifted my purchasing patterns away from Amazon.
Instead I tend to search Amazon (and Google, etc) to see what options are available, and buy them elsewhere if possible. Ideally directly from high-quality brands' websites, or alternately from smaller, specialized online retail outlets I trust more. Both tend to be more of a passion project and really care about what they're making and selling.
I may not receive the item as fast, but I've adjusted to that and realize in 99% of cases I don't really need that instant gratification.
In fact, fast shipping instant gratification seems more likely to tempt me into un-needed impulse purchases, and I'm better off without it. I make more planned and strategic purchases when I have to wait a little longer to receive them. Better for my personal financial planning and budgeting, and control of my lizard brain response.
You get fast shipping? Amazon is usually slowest, takes 1-2 weeks if you're not Prime.
Where we live, without prime, almost everything is £4.49 standard (4ish days), or £4.99 next day delivery.
Having Amazon Prime is such a constant in my life for so long now that I forgot it’s even a thing that you can in fact not have. How weird.
I’m actually okay with waiting for shipping time too. What I can’t stand is not knowing the final price and hidden processing and shipping fees that make me just abandon the cart.
The link doesn't show any facts.
One site that has really risen due to this, imo, is Etsy - there you know the person making the product, you can see clear examples of their work, browse their website, look at their previous work, talk with them, etc. It's the opposite of the no-name Amazon experience.
Definitely not cheap and has issues of its own, but worth checking out if, like me you thought it wasn't useful before.
Definitely not cheap and has issues of its own, but worth checking out if, like me you thought it wasn't useful before.
I know of several companies auto listing thousands of foreign manufactured goods on Etsy. I don't know how prevalent this is, but I know not everything there is handmade nor is it all from small individual sellers.
Ok fair point. Never mind the world is just all garbage. Take to the woods!
Sometimes I think writing reviews for products that I've purchased on Amazon is kind of a civic duty, a way to fight back against all the fakes and help our fellow shoppers.
I find https://www.fakespot.com/ very useful if I’m shopping on Amazon.
He goes as far as reviewing everything he doesn't buy there with less than 3 stars so his account isn't suspicious.
Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be, not only helping shady companies but also hurting legit ones.