IKEA to buy back used furniture in recycling push(bbc.com)
bbc.com
IKEA to buy back used furniture in recycling push
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54531619
315 comments
Most people aren't complaining about it if it stays in one spot.
The issue is mainly when moving between apartments/houses. All the shifting weight and jostling in the truck simply weakens things too much. It's also not meant to be disassembled, and the particle board easily gets really banged up because it's so soft. And all this is even when trying to protect it with covering pads. (And sadly, none of your tips are going to help either -- fasteners simply pull themselves out of the soft particle board, because the board itself is weaker than the fastener/glue.)
A Billy bookshelf or Kallax shelving unit will hopefully survive a single move, especially if you can tighten/glue things further after it's been moved. But once you're talking 2-3 moves, forget it.
For that reason, for young professionals who move apartments every couple years in their 20's, it often makes more sense to just leave/toss their IKEA shelves/cubbies/units, and buy new pieces for the new place. It isn't durable across moves.
(Obviously I'm talking about "classic" IKEA particle board flat-pack stuff. If you're buying a solid wood table or metal lamp from IKEA then it'll be fine, but that's not what most people are thinking about when they think of IKEA furniture.)
The issue is mainly when moving between apartments/houses. All the shifting weight and jostling in the truck simply weakens things too much. It's also not meant to be disassembled, and the particle board easily gets really banged up because it's so soft. And all this is even when trying to protect it with covering pads. (And sadly, none of your tips are going to help either -- fasteners simply pull themselves out of the soft particle board, because the board itself is weaker than the fastener/glue.)
A Billy bookshelf or Kallax shelving unit will hopefully survive a single move, especially if you can tighten/glue things further after it's been moved. But once you're talking 2-3 moves, forget it.
For that reason, for young professionals who move apartments every couple years in their 20's, it often makes more sense to just leave/toss their IKEA shelves/cubbies/units, and buy new pieces for the new place. It isn't durable across moves.
(Obviously I'm talking about "classic" IKEA particle board flat-pack stuff. If you're buying a solid wood table or metal lamp from IKEA then it'll be fine, but that's not what most people are thinking about when they think of IKEA furniture.)
Anecdotally, I have moved multiple times (2-4 times) with IKEA furniture, including one of those classic IKEA swinging chairs (20 years old), a Billy (13 years old), an Expedit (8 years old), a desk (13 years old) and a bed (7 years old). Everything was completely disassembled each time, and is still looking great. You just have to be careful. I sold the bed for 50 EUR a year ago, which required yet another disassembly.
> fasteners simply pull themselves out of the soft particle board, because the board itself is weaker than the fastener
This is true for most furniture. High-quality solid wood is also weaker than a metal fastener.
> fasteners simply pull themselves out of the soft particle board, because the board itself is weaker than the fastener
This is true for most furniture. High-quality solid wood is also weaker than a metal fastener.
Whoa, you disassembled it between moves and it survived? I've never been able to do that without the particleboard getting too messed up to accept the screws.
Some IKEA items have a metal insert + machine screws and slots for the back rather than nailing, so those can be easily disassembled and reassembled without issue. IMO, if IKEA was serious about sustainability they would make them all like that. I think they are more looking for PR and know that the same reasons that keep people from moving the items will keep them from returning them as well.
I do have a couple of short shelves that I got used and moved 3-4 times that look to be screwed into the material (my memory isn't that great :/) and I'm guessing at one point had a nailed on back. I'm fairly sure it just worked for me to disassemble and reassemble without change and they are somehow stable without any cross bracing. The previous owner might have changed the screws.
I also have a pair of IKEA chairs that were quite unstable when I got them used and the issue turned out to be that the order of tightening screws made a huge difference. Luckily it was new enough that it was easy to find the manual on IKEA's site or I would never have figured it out. I think a number of items have tricks like that where you need to exactly follow the instructions or it doesn't work.
I do have a couple of short shelves that I got used and moved 3-4 times that look to be screwed into the material (my memory isn't that great :/) and I'm guessing at one point had a nailed on back. I'm fairly sure it just worked for me to disassemble and reassemble without change and they are somehow stable without any cross bracing. The previous owner might have changed the screws.
I also have a pair of IKEA chairs that were quite unstable when I got them used and the issue turned out to be that the order of tightening screws made a huge difference. Luckily it was new enough that it was easy to find the manual on IKEA's site or I would never have figured it out. I think a number of items have tricks like that where you need to exactly follow the instructions or it doesn't work.
Assembling a Billy involves nailing a MDF backboard to the fiberboard panels. I'm rather skeptical about the possibility of reassembling anything from the Billy line with any success.
You don't reuse the nail holes ;) Just offset by a few inches/cm.
The Billy I have has slots at the back where you can slide in the fiberboard panels. Only one nail is necessary to hold it in place. If that isn't the case, you can offset the nail positions by 2 cm. If the nail is broken, they can cheaply be replaced. Nailed MDF backboards are completely standard even for very expensive furniture. Removing the nails is trivial given the right tool, but can also very easily be done with a kitchen knife.
How do you remove them?? I have a Pax where I nailed the backplane inside out (the veneered side faces the wall, the raw face is what you see when opening the door)
I tried removing the nails and it’s impossible. They’re very very very snug. Even punching the backplane out just breaks it and leaves the nails in place with a little piece of board around them. There isn’t enough space between the nail head and the board to slide a kitchen knife and when there is, is breaks the knive’s edge rather than moving the nail.
Very curious indeed to know what your method is.
I tried removing the nails and it’s impossible. They’re very very very snug. Even punching the backplane out just breaks it and leaves the nails in place with a little piece of board around them. There isn’t enough space between the nail head and the board to slide a kitchen knife and when there is, is breaks the knive’s edge rather than moving the nail.
Very curious indeed to know what your method is.
There are many different lines of products from IKEA. Even if they serve the same purpose (kallax and eket for example), the price is a pretty good indicator of the durability of the furniture and your ability to disassemble and reassemble it down the line.
What I guess I'm trying to say is that it's not IKEA problem, it's budget lines of IKEA products problem. At the lower price range it's hard to expect great durability.
A lot of wooden IKEA furniture sold in Europe is produced in Poland and there are many local knock-offs of IKEA products from other manufacturers. These are either cheaper and even less durable or more expensive but barely match IKEA's ease of assembly and quality of the components. I really don't think that durability is IKEA's greatest problem. ;)
What I guess I'm trying to say is that it's not IKEA problem, it's budget lines of IKEA products problem. At the lower price range it's hard to expect great durability.
A lot of wooden IKEA furniture sold in Europe is produced in Poland and there are many local knock-offs of IKEA products from other manufacturers. These are either cheaper and even less durable or more expensive but barely match IKEA's ease of assembly and quality of the components. I really don't think that durability is IKEA's greatest problem. ;)
> There are many different lines of products from IKEA.
Came here to say just that. Some products are virtually bullet-proof, while others start to show their age after a few months of regular use. For example, cheap melltorp tables can withstand a nuclear blast and even a few cross-country relocations, but anything from their Billy line is already half-way to a trash heap after unboxing. IMMV.
Came here to say just that. Some products are virtually bullet-proof, while others start to show their age after a few months of regular use. For example, cheap melltorp tables can withstand a nuclear blast and even a few cross-country relocations, but anything from their Billy line is already half-way to a trash heap after unboxing. IMMV.
Ikea furniture and any flat pack furniture can usually be taken apart just fine. Just reverse the instructions. I've done it multiple times, especially when I had to fit a desk with a hutch in the back seat of my sedan. I guess for most people, it's just not worth the time to take apart all their furniture at once
I guess your experience is different from mine.
A lot of IKEA stuff I've bought involves one-way assembly -- pounding things together with a mallet. See the EKET cabinets for example. If you reverse it by naively prying them apart, it'll strip the wood.
Or take the backing to any BILLY bookshelf -- it's held in place with ~30 tiny nails. It's virtually impossible to pry the backing and nails off without destroying the backing in the process.
Etc. etc. Yes, some of the pieces can be disassembled, if the assembly consists entirely of cam locks, dowels and screws. But it's certainly not designed for it.
A lot of IKEA stuff I've bought involves one-way assembly -- pounding things together with a mallet. See the EKET cabinets for example. If you reverse it by naively prying them apart, it'll strip the wood.
Or take the backing to any BILLY bookshelf -- it's held in place with ~30 tiny nails. It's virtually impossible to pry the backing and nails off without destroying the backing in the process.
Etc. etc. Yes, some of the pieces can be disassembled, if the assembly consists entirely of cam locks, dowels and screws. But it's certainly not designed for it.
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In my experience, the problem isn't just reverse the instructions, but rather the furniture ins't as sturdy as it was the first time I built it.
Anecdotally, I just moved apparently. The the last two years my Malm bed was fantastic. Never made a noise no matter what I did on the bed. I could lay, kneel, have my dog run zoomies on it, and it was great. Then I took it apart to move apartments and you would have thought a banshee lived in the joints. Sitting, touching, it didnt matter that thing howled. We tried a few online solutions before doing the ultimate solution: buying a new frame.
Anecdotally, I just moved apparently. The the last two years my Malm bed was fantastic. Never made a noise no matter what I did on the bed. I could lay, kneel, have my dog run zoomies on it, and it was great. Then I took it apart to move apartments and you would have thought a banshee lived in the joints. Sitting, touching, it didnt matter that thing howled. We tried a few online solutions before doing the ultimate solution: buying a new frame.
>A Billy bookshelf or Kallax shelving unit will hopefully survive a single move, especially if you can tighten/glue things further after it's been moved. But once you're talking 2-3 moves, forget it.
Anecdotal but we have several (Expedit, the old Kallax) and they have survived 4 moves, one quite a distance and they are used daily to hold media and in a living room, one was part of my desk for 4 years. They are still in great condition. I expected 2 years out of them and am coming up on 10.
Anecdotal but we have several (Expedit, the old Kallax) and they have survived 4 moves, one quite a distance and they are used daily to hold media and in a living room, one was part of my desk for 4 years. They are still in great condition. I expected 2 years out of them and am coming up on 10.
I moved with my Ikea furniture ~10 times in the last 12 years, including 3 interstate moves and a couple stints in storage, and almost all of it is ~good as new; we have both the cheapest $10 coffee tables and chairs, and the "high end" (for Ikea) stuff.
The only exception was one poorly designed under-the-bed drawer (the front gradually falls off due to the impacts if you kick it closed).
The only exception was one poorly designed under-the-bed drawer (the front gradually falls off due to the impacts if you kick it closed).
I disagree about the Kallax units specifically - I've moved mine several times and it holds up well.
This matches my experience. Some of the moving companies I've used have refused to insure Ikea furniture as well, since they have such a high probability of coming apart during the move.
it just needs to be glued. most joints are fine in Ikea if everything is solidly glued and the fasteners they give you are just built-in clamps. Then it can be moved and used for years.
In my experience, IKEA furniture is a fantastic value, and has great durability, unless/until you disassemble it. If you never disassemble it then it'll stay solid for long past the point where you've gotten your money's worth. IME that's true even having exclusively used the tools that came with the pieces, and never using any additional steps (power tools, glue, loctite, etc.).
If you disassemble it, it immediately starts feeling like you got what you paid for.
If you disassemble it, it immediately starts feeling like you got what you paid for.
Even disassembling... what are people doing? I have moved several times with IKEA furniture I had to disassemble (including a big 5x5 Expedit), and it's all been fine...
Disassembled bed... it was never the same. My issue with IKEA is most of the furniture is not solid wood but chipboard, screws just don't hold well in it. Some of their products handle repeated putting apart and together fine, some don't. Sometimes people mess up with complex pieces of furniture.
I wouldn't blame IKEA specifically, any chipboard furniture would be prone to this.
I wouldn't blame IKEA specifically, any chipboard furniture would be prone to this.
I just took my Malm bed on its third move (fourth apartment). It’s still doing great.
Lucky! Mine never really survived the first move. Switched to the standalone box spring with the optional feet attachments and a skirt and they're much better. Solid wood and big bolts; held up through a couple of moves now!
Mine sounds like walking on the floors of a 200 year old house if you shift your weight even an millimeter. That was after three moves. My Ikea couch collapsed recently also after three moves (as in the bottom detached from the back violently and permanently).
>My issue with IKEA is most of the furniture is not solid wood but chipboard
They sell lots of both. If you're buying a $10 coffee table, yes, it's going to be particle board.
I feel like people are missing the core of ikea: it's well priced, stylish furniture that you can move into your condo or apartment easily.
They sell lots of both. If you're buying a $10 coffee table, yes, it's going to be particle board.
I feel like people are missing the core of ikea: it's well priced, stylish furniture that you can move into your condo or apartment easily.
We have a double bed from chipwood that costed +-1000USD with mattress and bed slats. Slats and mattress are fine (which is expected after roughly only 4 years), but bed frame... overpriced for what it is. Will go for solid massive wood which can be found cheaper where we live. At that time there wasn't basically anything in IKEA from solid wood.
So some IKEA stuff is well priced, some isn't. Some is great value for the money, some definitely isn't. Some styles are plain ugly as fk to us, some they nail pretty well for the price. I think its called hit-and-miss situation.
Their kitchens are great value generally - not top notch by any means, but at given price even professionals tend to agree they are the best. If you want something better, prepare 2-3x the price. And since you never move kitchen, most complains mentioned before don't apply.
So some IKEA stuff is well priced, some isn't. Some is great value for the money, some definitely isn't. Some styles are plain ugly as fk to us, some they nail pretty well for the price. I think its called hit-and-miss situation.
Their kitchens are great value generally - not top notch by any means, but at given price even professionals tend to agree they are the best. If you want something better, prepare 2-3x the price. And since you never move kitchen, most complains mentioned before don't apply.
> most of the furniture is not solid wood but chipboard
Almost all of it is MDF, not chipboard/particleboard.
Almost all of it is MDF, not chipboard/particleboard.
Technically, Ikea furtinure is usually comprised of composite elements formed by a mix of cardboard, MFD, fiberboards, and plywood.
Perhaps the epitome of Ikea's engineered lumber prowess is either their Kalax line or their Lack tables, which are built from fiberboard blocks held together by a plywood diaphragm and with a celular cardboard core.
Perhaps the epitome of Ikea's engineered lumber prowess is either their Kalax line or their Lack tables, which are built from fiberboard blocks held together by a plywood diaphragm and with a celular cardboard core.
I reassembled my IKEA Malm bed after a move and it seemed to be better than before. It completely stopped squeaking or making any noise when moving around on it. (Not that it was particularly bad before, it just got better.)
That was the 4th move, where I had disassembled and reassembled it each time. One of those moves was across the country too.
That was the 4th move, where I had disassembled and reassembled it each time. One of those moves was across the country too.
protip: when reusing wood/plastic/sheet metal screw holes, turn the screw in reverse with your fingers to feel out where the existing threads are, and then screw it back into the same groove.
I can confirm. I do that with every screw ever and I have yet to strip a thread. It’s also very satisfying for me to know I’m in the same groove and it’s usually much easier to screw the screw back in.
Entirely agree.
I've assembled loads of IKEA furniture over the years and have only rarely had quality issues. IKEA uses a lot more solid wood these days than compressed particle board, and is thus not bad.
The only issue I've seen (which IKEA has attempted to remedy in its more recent iterations) is that the bottoms of some of the drawers in a chest of drawers will "bow" down under load.
I've had mass-produced furniture from major brands known for quality, I've had hand-made wood furniture from NC, I've had big-box store self-assembled furniture and I've had IKEA furniture. Hand-made furniture can't be beat, but IKEA really is second best in my experience.
I've assembled loads of IKEA furniture over the years and have only rarely had quality issues. IKEA uses a lot more solid wood these days than compressed particle board, and is thus not bad.
The only issue I've seen (which IKEA has attempted to remedy in its more recent iterations) is that the bottoms of some of the drawers in a chest of drawers will "bow" down under load.
I've had mass-produced furniture from major brands known for quality, I've had hand-made wood furniture from NC, I've had big-box store self-assembled furniture and I've had IKEA furniture. Hand-made furniture can't be beat, but IKEA really is second best in my experience.
I build furniture professionally, and I agree. IKEA stuff has been engineered to within an inch of its life to hold up for a reasonable length of time while being made of the lightest possible materials.
A lot of other factory made furniture is built starting from some vestige of traditional joinery, and then cheapened until it hits a price point. The construction is appalling. I don't expect mortise and tenon face frames, but pocket screws would be a much better solution than a couple of pneumatic nails, which do nothing to stabilize the case and can't be driven back in when they pull out under racking forces. At that point, the whole frame has to come off, and since the rest of the piece is as cheaply built, it's anybody's guess whether it'll hold together long enough to put the face frame back on.
The thinness of veneers on the tops of things that look like solid wood is a crime too. Most pros do the bulk of their stripping chemically, which doesn't risk damaging the veneer, but you usually have to do at least a little sanding, and it doesn't take much to find out what lies beneath. The result is that you can refinish a piece once.
Just like in software (which was my first career), doing repair/maintenance can be a real eye-opener.
If you like the look of IKEA, it's generally a good compromise between cost and durability.
EDIT: I should probably add that, in fairness, IKEA stuff , at least the particleboard or honeycomb cardboard stuff, is completely unrefinishable. I haven't seen any of their solid wood stuff come in for repair, but I'd take my chances on that if somebody wanted to pay me to.
A lot of other factory made furniture is built starting from some vestige of traditional joinery, and then cheapened until it hits a price point. The construction is appalling. I don't expect mortise and tenon face frames, but pocket screws would be a much better solution than a couple of pneumatic nails, which do nothing to stabilize the case and can't be driven back in when they pull out under racking forces. At that point, the whole frame has to come off, and since the rest of the piece is as cheaply built, it's anybody's guess whether it'll hold together long enough to put the face frame back on.
The thinness of veneers on the tops of things that look like solid wood is a crime too. Most pros do the bulk of their stripping chemically, which doesn't risk damaging the veneer, but you usually have to do at least a little sanding, and it doesn't take much to find out what lies beneath. The result is that you can refinish a piece once.
Just like in software (which was my first career), doing repair/maintenance can be a real eye-opener.
If you like the look of IKEA, it's generally a good compromise between cost and durability.
EDIT: I should probably add that, in fairness, IKEA stuff , at least the particleboard or honeycomb cardboard stuff, is completely unrefinishable. I haven't seen any of their solid wood stuff come in for repair, but I'd take my chances on that if somebody wanted to pay me to.
> IKEA uses a lot more solid wood these days than compressed particle board, and is thus not bad.
I don't know what you're talking about... all the "classic" IKEA items like the BILLY bookshelf, the KALLAX (now EXPEDIT) shelves, the LACK table, the MALM chests... they're all particle board and, yes, bad quality. (Which is OK since they're cheap, that's the whole point.)
Yes you've always also been able to buy solid wood stuff, like certain tables and chairs or more expensive items, but that stuff isn't replacing the classic particle-board pieces. It's not like IKEA's been moving to higher-quality stuff on the whole.
I don't know what you're talking about... all the "classic" IKEA items like the BILLY bookshelf, the KALLAX (now EXPEDIT) shelves, the LACK table, the MALM chests... they're all particle board and, yes, bad quality. (Which is OK since they're cheap, that's the whole point.)
Yes you've always also been able to buy solid wood stuff, like certain tables and chairs or more expensive items, but that stuff isn't replacing the classic particle-board pieces. It's not like IKEA's been moving to higher-quality stuff on the whole.
I think you got that backwards - it used to be EXPEDIT, but now it's KALLAX.
(Source: I just bought a whole bunch of cube-shelving from IKEA - Kallax is all over, but Expedit is nowhere to be found.)
(Source: I just bought a whole bunch of cube-shelving from IKEA - Kallax is all over, but Expedit is nowhere to be found.)
> (...) they're all particle board and, yes, bad quality.
That's not true. The Billy line is a mix of particleboard and a MDF backboard/diaphragm, but the Kalax/Lack lines are composite panels built from fiberboard, plywood, and a cardboard cell core. And they are superb, specially given their price and also weight.
That's not true. The Billy line is a mix of particleboard and a MDF backboard/diaphragm, but the Kalax/Lack lines are composite panels built from fiberboard, plywood, and a cardboard cell core. And they are superb, specially given their price and also weight.
Stop buying the particleboard crap. The solid wood (often pine) pieces are so wonderfully durable and they degrade gracefully (dings and scratches rather than peeling laminate and chunks of particleboard falling out).
Seriously it’s worth the added cost. You’ll all love it.
Seriously it’s worth the added cost. You’ll all love it.
This x1000. I've owned a lot of IKEA furniture and I think it's really durable. I have a bedroom set (Hemnes) that I've hauled around to six different places over the years and it still serving well in the guest room. I never bothered to even unload the dresser full of clothes, I just wrap it up in shipping plastic and haul it on a dolly.
However, even their crap can be really rugged. I have this $5 side table that I've been dragging around for a decade now that just won't die.
However, even their crap can be really rugged. I have this $5 side table that I've been dragging around for a decade now that just won't die.
In my mind, out of every product, IKEA pricing will be e.g.
- the cheapest possible one at like $5 - a pretty OK one at $20 - some really fancy ones with brass handles or sth at $40 or $80
The $5 products I bought fell apart, but the $20 ones are still perfectly fine.
So I guess depending on what everyone refers to as "typical IKEA stuff", their mileage might vary by a looong shot.
- the cheapest possible one at like $5 - a pretty OK one at $20 - some really fancy ones with brass handles or sth at $40 or $80
The $5 products I bought fell apart, but the $20 ones are still perfectly fine.
So I guess depending on what everyone refers to as "typical IKEA stuff", their mileage might vary by a looong shot.
Yes. Now if IKEA would stop selling the particleboard crap consumers won't have to be forced to make the right decision.
I don't know, is that a crazy, overly-activist idea?
I don't know, is that a crazy, overly-activist idea?
I concur, when people refer to bad quality ikea furniture they invariably mean the particle board stuff. Anything made of solid wood or metal has held up well for me.
> " if you use a power tool on a screw, only use it for 95% of the task. finish the job with a hand-tool or you will do damage."
Or, learn how to use the torque setting properly on your electric drill / screwdriver.
Or, learn how to use the torque setting properly on your electric drill / screwdriver.
Not all drills have a torque limiter. As I understand it, you're more likely to find those on cordless drills than their corded brethren. I've actually never used a corded drill with a torque limiter, but most of cordless ones I've used have had them.
Corded drills seem hard to find these days. The only one I have is a couple of decades old, and I don't run fasteners with it, not least because it lacks both torque limiting and speed control. I'd expect a modern corded drill to live in the high-power contractor tool niche, like how a rotary hammer compares with a handheld hammer drill.
Ikea, perhaps unsurprisingly, sells a cheap cordless driver ($20 US) with a torque limiter.
Ikea, perhaps unsurprisingly, sells a cheap cordless driver ($20 US) with a torque limiter.
https://www.diy.com/departments/bosch-550w-240v-corded-hamme...
Perhaps this is unusual in the US but entry-level corded drills are readily available in the UK.
I don't know if this store is a good example, but this USA based store appears to stock a range of cheap corded drills:
https://www.lowes.com/pl/Drills-Drills-drivers-Power-tools-T...
Perhaps this is unusual in the US but entry-level corded drills are readily available in the UK.
I don't know if this store is a good example, but this USA based store appears to stock a range of cheap corded drills:
https://www.lowes.com/pl/Drills-Drills-drivers-Power-tools-T...
I can't see the Lowes page right now, but Home Depot is a comparable retailer, and a store near me (but not the one I usually go to) looks to stock a couple of absolutely bottom-tier corded 3/8" drills, plus a broad range of light and medium corded hammer drills with 1/2" chucks. The broad niche between those, of general-purpose 3/8" and 1/2" light and medium drill/driver tools and impact drivers, looks to be pretty universally filled by cordless tools. (Which makes sense, given the razor-and-blades or inkjet-and-cartridges business model to which battery-powered tools lend themselves.)
I wonder if corded drills might be more common in the UK because your higher mains voltage means less current is required for a given power output. With conversion losses, you can't realistically pull more than a horsepower out of a typical 120V/10A circuit without risking a breaker trip, even if there's nothing else connected to the circuit. That makes a corded tool potentially much more of a pain to use than a battery-powered one, so even if the corded version would otherwise be much more cost-efficient, it still may be a tougher sell in the US.
I've heard the same power limitation described as a reason why electric kettles basically don't exist here, although since kitchen circuits are typically rated for higher current than most others, I suspect the absence of good electric kettles may have more to do with steeped tea having been displaced by drip coffee in Americans' morning cups.
I wonder if corded drills might be more common in the UK because your higher mains voltage means less current is required for a given power output. With conversion losses, you can't realistically pull more than a horsepower out of a typical 120V/10A circuit without risking a breaker trip, even if there's nothing else connected to the circuit. That makes a corded tool potentially much more of a pain to use than a battery-powered one, so even if the corded version would otherwise be much more cost-efficient, it still may be a tougher sell in the US.
I've heard the same power limitation described as a reason why electric kettles basically don't exist here, although since kitchen circuits are typically rated for higher current than most others, I suspect the absence of good electric kettles may have more to do with steeped tea having been displaced by drip coffee in Americans' morning cups.
> "I've heard the same power limitation described as a reason why electric kettles basically don't exist here"
I never realised that, but it makes sense. Canadians don't use electric kettles either and they like their tea! When I lived in Canada everyone seemed to have a stovetop whistling kettle.
Looking at my Australian-designed Chinese-built UK kettle, it's rated at "2760-3000W", which is far more than can be drawn from a standard US 120V outlet.
I never realised that, but it makes sense. Canadians don't use electric kettles either and they like their tea! When I lived in Canada everyone seemed to have a stovetop whistling kettle.
Looking at my Australian-designed Chinese-built UK kettle, it's rated at "2760-3000W", which is far more than can be drawn from a standard US 120V outlet.
> I wonder if corded drills might be more common in the UK because your higher mains voltage means less current is required for a given power output. With conversion losses, you can't realistically pull more than a horsepower out of a typical 120V/10A circuit without risking a breaker trip, even if there's nothing else connected to the circuit. That makes a corded tool potentially much more of a pain to use than a battery-powered one, so even if the corded version would otherwise be much more cost-efficient, it still may be a tougher sell in the US.
I wonder if that's also why I've seen almost no electric/induction cooktops in American media even though from my Central European POV induction tops are safer, easier to regulate etc. than gas cooktops.
I wonder if that's also why I've seen almost no electric/induction cooktops in American media even though from my Central European POV induction tops are safer, easier to regulate etc. than gas cooktops.
That's not an issue for stoves specifically in the US - stoves, dryers, ovens, and other large fixed appliances are wired for 240V in the US as well. It would be an issue for non-fixed appliances like electric kettles, which only have 120V 15A available.
There are quite a few electric cooktops in the US. I would guess more than half are electric. As for induction, not as much, but I always see them for sale in any appliance store. I believe they are more expensive.
As for not seeing them in the media, that is likely because electric cooktops don't make for good video. The pop of a nice blue flame is much more interesting. Additionally, most high end kitchen appliances are gas since gas is preferred by most professional kitchens.
As for not seeing them in the media, that is likely because electric cooktops don't make for good video. The pop of a nice blue flame is much more interesting. Additionally, most high end kitchen appliances are gas since gas is preferred by most professional kitchens.
> typical 120V/10A circuit
A typical 120V circuit in the US is either 15A or 20A. Where are you finding 10A circuits?
A typical 120V circuit in the US is either 15A or 20A. Where are you finding 10A circuits?
There is no hand drill that needs more than 10 amps.
You can get enough torque to break your wrist with 10 amps at 120v.
You can get enough torque to break your wrist with 10 amps at 120v.
My dad left me his tools. One day the garage door was left open too long and somebody stole some drills. They only took the cordless ones, leaving the two with cords.
It gave me some idea of what things were worth at the pawn shop.
It gave me some idea of what things were worth at the pawn shop.
I've never seen a corded drill that was meant for driving screws as opposed to drilling only.
If you use a sledgehammer instead of a screwdriver, don't complain about furniture falling apart.
If you use a sledgehammer instead of a screwdriver, don't complain about furniture falling apart.
>I've never seen a corded drill that was meant for driving screws as opposed to drilling only.
That's more a function of battery-powered drills being good enough and the stuff that requires a plug is designed to drill through concrete. My cordless Milwaukee has pressure-sensitive speed and a very granular torque setting, along with hammer drill and screw settings. My Ikea furniture is basically bulletproof.
That's more a function of battery-powered drills being good enough and the stuff that requires a plug is designed to drill through concrete. My cordless Milwaukee has pressure-sensitive speed and a very granular torque setting, along with hammer drill and screw settings. My Ikea furniture is basically bulletproof.
You can drill through concrete with a cordless drill too, they're definitely good enough, especially with modern batteries.
Ikea sells a drill designed for putting together their furniture. The $20 version is fine for most use, but the $40 one is much heftier and can be used for lot of stuff.
Everyone should have a basic toolbox that includes a cordless drill.
Everyone should have a basic toolbox that includes a cordless drill.
If you're using a corded drill to assemble furniture, you're doing it wrong.
Corded drills are just _drills_. Cordless drills are typically drill / drivers.
Corded drills are just _drills_. Cordless drills are typically drill / drivers.
What setting though? IKEA should specify the torque setting in N-m for each screw and the torque limiter should have settings in the same units.
Much like electrical circuits, it's not really that useful to have a limiter when you don't know what to limit it to.
Much like electrical circuits, it's not really that useful to have a limiter when you don't know what to limit it to.
The lowest setting which turns the screw.
Most electric screwdrivers are anyway not marked with torques.
Instead you start low and increase the setting one click at a time until the screw is seated properly, then use that setting for the rest of the screws.
Instead you start low and increase the setting one click at a time until the screw is seated properly, then use that setting for the rest of the screws.
Maybe they should pay attention to science and mark them properly in N-m. It would make jobs programmable and reproducable from one screwdriver to another. I could own a DeWalt and borrow someone's Ryobi or Makita or some other brand and nail the setting the first try by dialing the correct torque in N-m. The limiter is already there; they just need to change the markings.
I don't know about your electric drill, but after assembling two sets of shelves with mine, I know which torque setting is "about as hard as I can do by hand".
To your second and third points, if you have a drill/driver with a torque setting, use that and turn the torque right down before running screws into MDF.
(The torque setting is the numbered collar behind the chuck on your driver, if it has one. It won't be calibrated to anything, but lower numbers mean less torque applied to the fastener before the driver stops turning it.)
A low torque setting vastly reduces the hazard of splitting the MDF, or chewing up the bolt's drive socket, if you're a little careless on the trigger. Then you can hand-finish with a regular driver.
I'd hesitate to use a thread locker on Ikea bolts. They're cheaply made and very mild, so it's hard enough to get them out without stripping the drive as it is; there's no way you're going to break Loctite and not end up needing to grab a bolt head with vise grips. (And that's if you break the Loctite before the drive strips. I wouldn't count on that.) At most, I'd say wait until you know there's a problem with a fastener backing out before you start thinking about gooping it up with something, and even then probably start with something less aggressive than even blue Loctite - a tiny dab of superglue, maybe.
(The torque setting is the numbered collar behind the chuck on your driver, if it has one. It won't be calibrated to anything, but lower numbers mean less torque applied to the fastener before the driver stops turning it.)
A low torque setting vastly reduces the hazard of splitting the MDF, or chewing up the bolt's drive socket, if you're a little careless on the trigger. Then you can hand-finish with a regular driver.
I'd hesitate to use a thread locker on Ikea bolts. They're cheaply made and very mild, so it's hard enough to get them out without stripping the drive as it is; there's no way you're going to break Loctite and not end up needing to grab a bolt head with vise grips. (And that's if you break the Loctite before the drive strips. I wouldn't count on that.) At most, I'd say wait until you know there's a problem with a fastener backing out before you start thinking about gooping it up with something, and even then probably start with something less aggressive than even blue Loctite - a tiny dab of superglue, maybe.
Agreed. Those little Lack tables are sturdy enough that they're often used as a cheap rack mounts by guitarists. Iirc they're almost perfectly a 1U width and depth, for anyone looking into a home lab. Add a couple of corner brackets and a layer of sealer and they'll take an outrageous beating.
That said, a benefit to the lack(heh) of quality is how light everything is. I do a lot of projects that require using my entire living space. If it wasn't so easy to just shove the furniture out of the way, I'd have that much more inertia between me and doing what I want.
That said, a benefit to the lack(heh) of quality is how light everything is. I do a lot of projects that require using my entire living space. If it wasn't so easy to just shove the furniture out of the way, I'd have that much more inertia between me and doing what I want.
They're also popular among the hobbyist 3d printing community. Buy two, stack them on top of each other, then use Plexiglas sheets (or similar) between the legs of the top one and you have a cheap solution for enclosing a 3d printer.
I would add: Add a bead of your owne wood glue for all wood - wood interfaces, and you'll massively increase the rigidity & durability.
Sadly nothing can help with the problem of MDF getting chipped and gouged easily when you move house.
Sadly nothing can help with the problem of MDF getting chipped and gouged easily when you move house.
I would just say use a low clutch setting on your power tools and you should be safe. My lowest clutch settings are weaker than my hand tightening.
Yes, that's always been partly BS. IKEA has a range of qualities of course, but let me tell you about the shitty, shitty particle board kmart? shelves my mom bought in the 70s and moved 5-10 times with over the years. Around 2005 we'd had enough and drug them into the parking lot, and did an "Office Space printer job" to them with hammers.
Was cheap as hell and supported heavy books and CRT TV for thirty years. The durability being too low wasn't the problem.
Maybe if you're in a refurbished hundred year old house and it deserves some dignified antiques sure, but for the rest of us IKEA is just fine. We even have a 15 year old very cheap Lack table in the corner.
Was cheap as hell and supported heavy books and CRT TV for thirty years. The durability being too low wasn't the problem.
Maybe if you're in a refurbished hundred year old house and it deserves some dignified antiques sure, but for the rest of us IKEA is just fine. We even have a 15 year old very cheap Lack table in the corner.
>you're really not going to disassemble that coffee table or small check of draws, so just use a bit of wood glue
Speak for yourself. I just finished a long distance move, and I absolutely took all of my Ikea furniture apart.
I'm on about year 3 of my current set of Ikea furniture, and so far it's all holding up fine. I pretty much just followed the directions, and used a power drill (with appropriate torque settings) for pretty much everything.
Speak for yourself. I just finished a long distance move, and I absolutely took all of my Ikea furniture apart.
I'm on about year 3 of my current set of Ikea furniture, and so far it's all holding up fine. I pretty much just followed the directions, and used a power drill (with appropriate torque settings) for pretty much everything.
I feel like there was a time when 30 years would be considered nothing for furniture durability. Heck, generations passed furniture down....
You can still get that kind of furniture if you want it. It just costs a couple of orders of magnitude more than even "expensive" Ikea furniture.
It seems very plausible to me that there was plenty of crappy (probably homemade) furniture that wasn't any better than Ikea historically. Heirloom quality furniture takes real skill, time and materials to make. I can't imagine that the average pre-Ikea family would have been able to afford for all of their furniture to be of that quality. Not being any kind of historian, I have no idea how they filled that gap.
It seems very plausible to me that there was plenty of crappy (probably homemade) furniture that wasn't any better than Ikea historically. Heirloom quality furniture takes real skill, time and materials to make. I can't imagine that the average pre-Ikea family would have been able to afford for all of their furniture to be of that quality. Not being any kind of historian, I have no idea how they filled that gap.
It doesn't cost a lot, in fact you can often get it for free. This EconTalk episode is a good reference: https://www.econtalk.org/adam-minter-on-secondhand/
The problem is that people by and large don't want solid and reliable. They want a wardrobe with a full-size mirror and soft close drawers, not grandma's hand-me-down mahogany wardrobe that's built like a brick shihouse.
This thread is also full of people complaining about IKEA products not holding up to moves, but I bet most of them would change their tune if they had to move a house full of solid wood furniture.
That stuff is heavy. You can buy an old wardrobe that will barely dent when hit with a sledgehammer, but the labor cost of moving it is so high that it can be cheaper nowadays to scrap it and buy a new one from IKEA.
The problem is that people by and large don't want solid and reliable. They want a wardrobe with a full-size mirror and soft close drawers, not grandma's hand-me-down mahogany wardrobe that's built like a brick shihouse.
This thread is also full of people complaining about IKEA products not holding up to moves, but I bet most of them would change their tune if they had to move a house full of solid wood furniture.
That stuff is heavy. You can buy an old wardrobe that will barely dent when hit with a sledgehammer, but the labor cost of moving it is so high that it can be cheaper nowadays to scrap it and buy a new one from IKEA.
While I agree that you can justifiably write off a majority of the criticism as "a bunch of yuppies who have no business using an allen wrench complaining they assembled it wrong" there is quite a bit of validity to complaints that the wooden equivalent of a pringles chip has no business doing anything structural.
I agree. I've found the driver torque dial to be inadequate most of the time.
I'm reminded of the idea of "mechanic's feel" from "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. It's when you develop a sense for tightening a screw or bolt for snugness without destroying the threads, the head or the material. It's hard to do that with an electric driver in the way. (one exception might be the gyro drivers)
And with respect to wood glue - I think it's worth the effort to add it to the mix with the non-metal furniture. Not only does it make the furniture more solid feeling, it also helps prevent the screws from loosening.
I'm reminded of the idea of "mechanic's feel" from "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. It's when you develop a sense for tightening a screw or bolt for snugness without destroying the threads, the head or the material. It's hard to do that with an electric driver in the way. (one exception might be the gyro drivers)
And with respect to wood glue - I think it's worth the effort to add it to the mix with the non-metal furniture. Not only does it make the furniture more solid feeling, it also helps prevent the screws from loosening.
The desk I'm using right now is hacked together Ikea pieces and it's worked for me for about 10 years (It's the Expedit desk attachment that we expanded). It's really one of only a few Ikea bits left since my wife and I got together. Ikea made it possible to furnish our home at the time, and as we've stabilized and our careers grown, we've replaced the Ikea items with nicer things. I have no ill will toward Ikea, and while they do not make furniture you'll put in your will, they enable a lot of people to have decent things at a decent price.
It's generally great. The only thing we have that was a disaster is a wardrobe with mirrored doors. The doors are too heavy for the fittings and they basically sheared off on one side. Fixing is really hard because the door weighs too much and so is brutal on anything I've had a go at.. and being made from fibreboard, the structure is sawdust very easily.
Maybe we will be able to recycle it. That would be pretty nice.
Maybe we will be able to recycle it. That would be pretty nice.
I mean this [1] isn't really acceptable for a 500 dollar desk.
https://www.btod.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/ikea-id...
https://www.btod.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/ikea-id...
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I've found that they're good for regular people. If you have kids IKEA furniture will not survive them. The leaping, jumping, pushing around, sitting on things they shouldn't. Although that's really more of a parental failure than IKEA's
Can confirm. We bought the cheap $10-$15 dining room / kitchen tables over a decade ago. They are still fine even though they still feel flimsy. Same goes for our other IKEA furniture. The only IKEA furniture I wouldn't recommend are the couches and beds.
>The great think about most IKEA furniture (or more generally, wood furniture) is that you can modify/fix it when it breaks. Good luck fixing those broken welds on your metal chairs!
Good luck breaking the steel beam bed frame :)
Ikea furniture is not wood it's crap particleboards, cheap plastic, etc. - repairing that looks terrible. Their paint quality is crap as well - I bought a work desk that would scratch from moving a monitor on it and has wear marks from resting my hands. Same problem with kitchen table in a rental apartment - got scratched up from regular use and no way to repair it. Hinges on sliding doors would never stop correctly and scratch up the other door, loose/flimsy feeling mechanism in the first place.
I do have their standing desk - it fit the home office space perfectly and it was the only good delivery option during corona lockdown - I'm happy with that so far. In general IKEA is my least favourite furniture option but sometimes they are the most practical solution.
Good luck breaking the steel beam bed frame :)
Ikea furniture is not wood it's crap particleboards, cheap plastic, etc. - repairing that looks terrible. Their paint quality is crap as well - I bought a work desk that would scratch from moving a monitor on it and has wear marks from resting my hands. Same problem with kitchen table in a rental apartment - got scratched up from regular use and no way to repair it. Hinges on sliding doors would never stop correctly and scratch up the other door, loose/flimsy feeling mechanism in the first place.
I do have their standing desk - it fit the home office space perfectly and it was the only good delivery option during corona lockdown - I'm happy with that so far. In general IKEA is my least favourite furniture option but sometimes they are the most practical solution.
>Ikea furniture is not wood it's crap particleboards
My kitchen table is from Ikea, it's solid wood. My Poang chair from Ikea came with a 10 year guarantee and I expect it to last longer than that. This idea that everything that comes out of Ikea is barely going to make it home is nonsense.
Of course if you buy a side table for £6 then you can't expect it to last long. That isn't representative of the whole though.
My kitchen table is from Ikea, it's solid wood. My Poang chair from Ikea came with a 10 year guarantee and I expect it to last longer than that. This idea that everything that comes out of Ikea is barely going to make it home is nonsense.
Of course if you buy a side table for £6 then you can't expect it to last long. That isn't representative of the whole though.
I went to IKEA when I was building a kitchen - solid wood counter top was an option but wasn't cheaper than hiring local custom kitchen company for similar materials and I had them design a metal frame arround the kitchen island in the dimensions that couldn't be done with IKEA. My point being IKEA isn't much cheaper when you account for materials and you usually get better flexibility elsewhere.
IKEA is like McDonald's of furniture, there's a place for it, but like the McDonald's fancy burger options if you're going for that you'll have significantly better options for a bit more money
IKEA is like McDonald's of furniture, there's a place for it, but like the McDonald's fancy burger options if you're going for that you'll have significantly better options for a bit more money
> wasn't cheaper than hiring local custom kitchen company for similar materials
Only if you value your time at 0. If you value your time at more than that, the time it takes to get a contractor and back and forth with him to agree on a design etc makes it more expensive, since with Ikea you pretty much opt into a generic solution of one-size-fits-all.
I agree it's not for everyone; though I wouldn't say it's the McDonalds of furniture – this would IMO be Poco (https://www.poco.de/); also I'm saying that as someone who doesn't eat McDonalds :-D
Only if you value your time at 0. If you value your time at more than that, the time it takes to get a contractor and back and forth with him to agree on a design etc makes it more expensive, since with Ikea you pretty much opt into a generic solution of one-size-fits-all.
I agree it's not for everyone; though I wouldn't say it's the McDonalds of furniture – this would IMO be Poco (https://www.poco.de/); also I'm saying that as someone who doesn't eat McDonalds :-D
IKEA is McDonald's in terms of global presence and consistency and catering towards budget spectrum
I bought two Poang chairs roughly 20 years ago, and they are still fine. Wonderful product.
> Ikea furniture is not wood it's crap particleboards, cheap plastic, etc. - repairing that looks terrible.
Depends a lot on the line. Eventually one figures it out.
I love the Hemnes line for example: the design suits my tastes and it's all 100% wood – from the smell of it I guess pine.
Regarding the paint job, that can be the case, though I wouldn't know as I normally get them in raw wood. Sometimes I overpaint them myself with a different color.
Depends a lot on the line. Eventually one figures it out.
I love the Hemnes line for example: the design suits my tastes and it's all 100% wood – from the smell of it I guess pine.
Regarding the paint job, that can be the case, though I wouldn't know as I normally get them in raw wood. Sometimes I overpaint them myself with a different color.
Hemnes is pine; see materials section under product details: https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/hemnes-chest-of-8-drawers-white...
> "Ikea furniture is not wood it's crap particleboards"
There are different tiers of furniture at IKEA. Cheap lines made of particle board. More pricey ones made of good quality solid wood. Middle priced stuff that's somewhere in between.
There are different tiers of furniture at IKEA. Cheap lines made of particle board. More pricey ones made of good quality solid wood. Middle priced stuff that's somewhere in between.
> Good luck breaking the steel beam bed frame :)
Depends entirely on the quality of the welds!
An old rented flat had metal dining chairs. Eventually the welds on the back rests broke and they started popping off. Nothing I can do about that, as much as I would like an excuse to buy a tig welder...
My parents have wooden furniture which has been in the family for 100+ years and repaired many times.
Depends entirely on the quality of the welds!
An old rented flat had metal dining chairs. Eventually the welds on the back rests broke and they started popping off. Nothing I can do about that, as much as I would like an excuse to buy a tig welder...
My parents have wooden furniture which has been in the family for 100+ years and repaired many times.
> I bought a work desk that would scratch from moving a monitor on it and has wear marks from resting my hands.
And I'm working on a desk that I picked up 15 years ago and it's still in great condition even after daily use.
With IKEA you get what you pay for. If you want quality IKEA furniture, you can get it. But it won't be that cheap.
And I'm working on a desk that I picked up 15 years ago and it's still in great condition even after daily use.
With IKEA you get what you pay for. If you want quality IKEA furniture, you can get it. But it won't be that cheap.
Of course IKEA furniture lacks durability, much of it is made of that awful MDF (particle board).
Simultaneously weak, heavy and extremely vulnerable to water damage, it's only advantage is that it's dimensionally accurate when new and amenable to automated cutting, milling and drilling at the factory. I guess it's good with laminate coatings as well.
Another thing about IKEA is that if you got an old house with wide baseboards and not-quite-square walls, floors and ceilings, it's hard to make stuff like cabinets, bookshelves and counters mount properly. IKEA appears to be optimized for modern construction.
Much better to just get high-quality plywood cabinets, you won't have to worry about destroying it by using normal tools. It's also lighter and you will swear less and be done sooner. Even better, hire a carpenter to install good stuff.
Simultaneously weak, heavy and extremely vulnerable to water damage, it's only advantage is that it's dimensionally accurate when new and amenable to automated cutting, milling and drilling at the factory. I guess it's good with laminate coatings as well.
Another thing about IKEA is that if you got an old house with wide baseboards and not-quite-square walls, floors and ceilings, it's hard to make stuff like cabinets, bookshelves and counters mount properly. IKEA appears to be optimized for modern construction.
Much better to just get high-quality plywood cabinets, you won't have to worry about destroying it by using normal tools. It's also lighter and you will swear less and be done sooner. Even better, hire a carpenter to install good stuff.
IKEA has different product lines at different price points. They give the option of going with particle board, but spend more money and you get much longer lasting furniture.
Realistically, for people that move around a lot having a very cheap option to fit each living space is just efficient. Particleboard is effectively a form of wood recycling so using it is surprisingly environmentally friendly even if doesn’t last very long. However, once you buy a place it’s time to get something that lasts.
Realistically, for people that move around a lot having a very cheap option to fit each living space is just efficient. Particleboard is effectively a form of wood recycling so using it is surprisingly environmentally friendly even if doesn’t last very long. However, once you buy a place it’s time to get something that lasts.
I think they generally do a lot more plywood than MDF. But ultimately depends on the price points - they do sell pieces of fairly large furniture for <£10, and indeed they're not going to be super high end.
All my Ikea furniture is 15 years old and looks almost new. I even moved all of it from Ohio to SF with no issues. It's fine if you don't abuse it.
I think most of the comments so far are focusing on the lack of durability of some items in the catalog, but are failing to see that overall there is in fact a lot of 2nd hand buying and selling going on with items generally in good condition.
Over the last 15years I have bought (and sold on) a lot of 2nd hand IKEA furniture. (In fact looking at my house now, I can only see 2 or 3 items that were bought new and the rest are 2nd hand and in excellent condition. There is a very very active market.
My daughter's toddler size bed was bought 2nd hand and moved on to the next parent still in remarkably good condition after she wouldn't fit in the bed anymore.
I think this is more of a classic "kill the 2nd hand marked" move.
Over the last 15years I have bought (and sold on) a lot of 2nd hand IKEA furniture. (In fact looking at my house now, I can only see 2 or 3 items that were bought new and the rest are 2nd hand and in excellent condition. There is a very very active market.
My daughter's toddler size bed was bought 2nd hand and moved on to the next parent still in remarkably good condition after she wouldn't fit in the bed anymore.
I think this is more of a classic "kill the 2nd hand marked" move.
In Sweden it is free to sell IKEA items on Blocket, the Swedish equivalent to Craigslist. The fee for the listing of IKEA items is paid for by IKEA. I believe that IKEA are well aware that they have to cater for a 2nd hand market and find solutions to the "last mile" problem in order to be taken seriously when talking about sustainability. They are on it. If they succeed is another matter.
That is an interesting move. High resale value usually also translates to higher first sale value. Compare with cars, for example. For something like furniture, the expectation is that they should last quite long. If IKEA can promote that they indeed do, it provides an edge when people are looking to buy new.
I agree with this - when I purchase furniture, I often think about how I will offload it - whether I expect to lose 20%, 50%, or 100% of its value in 1-2 years. It's just not possible to buy and use up everything when you move apartments every year or two.
I honestly don't buy the "we want more sustainability" BS. They clearly want to increase rotation of furniture, so that the first hand market -- where Ikea makes real money -- increases.
An honest ad would be scripted as follows: "Tired of your yellow lamp? Buy a shiny new blue one and get rid of the yellow one without feeling guilty."
An honest ad would be scripted as follows: "Tired of your yellow lamp? Buy a shiny new blue one and get rid of the yellow one without feeling guilty."
I know people who work at IKEA and while I can't speak for the whole company there are a lot of people where who really care, and in structure it's a Swedish family-owned company that doesn't have to follow the whims of shareholders, and they don't pay competitively enough to attract the really ruthless career-climbing MBA-types.
IKEA has been investing in sustainability for longer than most companies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA#Environmental_performance
I guess it's easier to do good without shareholders.
I guess it's easier to do good without shareholders.
In North America, IKEA is considered your "starter" furniture and then you graduate to better stuff once you've "settled in" with career, family etc.
So usually you are replacing IKEA with something that is not IKEA.
People who can't afford to upgrade from IKEA also don't waste money changing lamp colours.
So usually you are replacing IKEA with something that is not IKEA.
People who can't afford to upgrade from IKEA also don't waste money changing lamp colours.
I honestly don't buy the "we want more sustainability" BS.
Ikea are an interesting company with a strong reputation to look after. I suspect you are being slightly too cynical.
Ikea are an interesting company with a strong reputation to look after. I suspect you are being slightly too cynical.
Having sold off various types of old furniture on various Craigslist equivalents, it's kind of amazing how much faster anything with "IKEA UMLÅUT" in the title sells than anything else. Like McD's, they're known quantities, the buyer knows exactly what they're getting and what it's worth.
I think the design/look of the furniture is a contributor as well. Most of the stuff on CL in the same price range is, in my opinion, not as tasteful.
Depends on the country/culture. In Singapore second hand is a dirty word.
This is a really interesting contrast. For example here in the Netherlands, it's very common to leave leftover good furniture on the street in front of your house before you move away. Usually it's all gone in a few hours, giving things a new life in the hand of whoever needs it.
I wonder if it's related to signalling in some way. I'm not a Dutchie myself, but they're infamous for looking down on showing off with money.
I wonder if it's related to signalling in some way. I'm not a Dutchie myself, but they're infamous for looking down on showing off with money.
This is very common in the United States as well, I have gotten some great pieces this way. Best find ever for me was a Breuer chair ages ago
Yet Carousell (the local Craigslist) is still massively popular.
Most of it is new products. Every year during Chinese New Year a significant portion of our neighbours would throw away good but old unwanted furniture and no one would look twice at it. All the valuable stuff was already taken away by specialist "karung guni" (rag and bone men) for spares and stripping for scrap.
I did get some good second hand stuff on carousel. Scooter, baby chair, laptop. All super cheap though. My 3.5 year old mbp 13 cost me less than USD$800. Brand new battery and top case too. You'd never get that in Berlin where I am now but you will find an unending wealth of good secondhand products for sale. Stuff left on the footpath is gone almost immediately too.
I did get some good second hand stuff on carousel. Scooter, baby chair, laptop. All super cheap though. My 3.5 year old mbp 13 cost me less than USD$800. Brand new battery and top case too. You'd never get that in Berlin where I am now but you will find an unending wealth of good secondhand products for sale. Stuff left on the footpath is gone almost immediately too.
I'm more pessimistic about Ikea quality -- virtually everything I've bought from them is in a state where I wouldn't buy it second-hand. On the kid desk I bought from them, the chairs broke. Same thing happened to my friends who bought the same set.
I'm more optimistic about motivations. Most people don't have time to sell (or even give away) something they bought for $200 now worth $30 on the second-hand market. If I could dispose of this stuff safely, freely, and easily, I definitely would.
Heck, if Ikea keeps this up, I bet there will be a third-hand market where people haul this junk away to Ikea, and resell vouchers/new furniture. That'd be awesome. If I could dump this stuff on the curb, and know it won't end up in a landfill, I'd totally do it.
I'm more optimistic about motivations. Most people don't have time to sell (or even give away) something they bought for $200 now worth $30 on the second-hand market. If I could dispose of this stuff safely, freely, and easily, I definitely would.
Heck, if Ikea keeps this up, I bet there will be a third-hand market where people haul this junk away to Ikea, and resell vouchers/new furniture. That'd be awesome. If I could dump this stuff on the curb, and know it won't end up in a landfill, I'd totally do it.
>Most people don't have time to sell (or even give away)
I've gone through this with a few things recently but I don't live in a city. I do, however, live on a fairly busy country road and I've had pretty good luck leaving things at the end of my driveway with a big FREE sign on them :-)
I've gone through this with a few things recently but I don't live in a city. I do, however, live on a fairly busy country road and I've had pretty good luck leaving things at the end of my driveway with a big FREE sign on them :-)
Dollar for dollar I find Ikea products to be a better value than anything else I can find. Sure, some stuff is cheap, but if I dropped the same amount at Target then I would truly have a cheap crappy thing compared to the Ikea product. And a good deal of stuff from Ikea is made very well from hardwood, and I would be hard pressed to find something of similar quality without doubling the price point. I actually buy most of it used. The Ikea market is hot in CA at least; if I see something I like in the catalog chances are someone is selling the very same thing locally in excellent shape.
I have a ton of Ikea stuff at home. It's a great value for the price.
"Great value for the price" isn't the same as "sturdy," though. I don't have anything from Ikea which I would describe as "made very well," and I'm under no illusions that it will outlast me, like my proper furniture.
"Great value for the price" isn't the same as "sturdy," though. I don't have anything from Ikea which I would describe as "made very well," and I'm under no illusions that it will outlast me, like my proper furniture.
> I bet there will be a third-hand market where people haul this junk away to Ikea, and resell vouchers/new furniture
That already seems to be a thing - at least at the Seattle IKEA. Whenever I return something I spot at least one "pro" who has 3 or 4 of the same mismatched piece to return. It obviously works for them to salvage items off craigslist and yard sales and return them for store credit.
That already seems to be a thing - at least at the Seattle IKEA. Whenever I return something I spot at least one "pro" who has 3 or 4 of the same mismatched piece to return. It obviously works for them to salvage items off craigslist and yard sales and return them for store credit.
Just want to chime in that I, too, am mystified by the Ikea hate. I've spent all of my 30+ years living with Ikea furniture. I'm writing this from an Ikea kitchen cart that has become my primary workspace. I remodeled my kitchen last fall with Ikea cabinets -- and was able to do almost the entire installation myself.
I've never had a serious problem with anything from them. The same cannot be said most of the furniture we've gotten from other places. The expensive, fancy-shmancy reclaimed wood dresser and nightstand my wife bought from some other chic retailer has been repaired about 4000 times.
I've never had a serious problem with anything from them. The same cannot be said most of the furniture we've gotten from other places. The expensive, fancy-shmancy reclaimed wood dresser and nightstand my wife bought from some other chic retailer has been repaired about 4000 times.
I recently visited an Ikea store, and most of the furniture they had on display did not resemble the type of furniture that I associate with Ikea (which is cheap, wood, self-assembled kits or modules that are easy to repair or disassemble for moving). Their offerings have changed a lot over the years, perhaps their show rooms vary according to location, and maybe people are choosing what to buy based upon different criteria these days.
They sell quite a lot of solid wood furniture.
I think a lot of people only experience ikea through the absolute cheapest tier of their products. I actually like this stuff because it tends to be super light, making it ideal for the phase of life where you move to a different apartment every year or two. stuff inevitably gets damaged during a move anyway, so I mostly have cheap furniture that I don't care about.
even with the cheapest stuff, I find a little care goes a long way. my cheap ikea bed frame has been moved and reassembled twice now and it still holds a mattress off the floor just fine.
even with the cheapest stuff, I find a little care goes a long way. my cheap ikea bed frame has been moved and reassembled twice now and it still holds a mattress off the floor just fine.
I don't get it either. In my eyes, they are an example of how good engineering combined with scale makes our lives better.
Their stuff is exactly as good as it needs to be. If you were to cut it up and look inside, you'd be shocked how cheap the materials are (big parts of the LACK are literally made of cardboard), but in my experience, you don't notice this in everyday use, and that's the really important part. That's good engineering vs. the medieval approach of just throwing a lot of wood at it until it's definitely enough.
Combine it with scale, and the result is me being able to furnish my entire apartment for the price that I'd pay for a single piece of "quality" furniture. My desk (where I shelled out for the slightly more expensive "higher quality" version with a 25? year warranty) and kitchen countertop look like new despite heavy use.
Will everything survive a move? Maybe not. That's why I plan to sell to the next tenant what they want to keep, from the rest dump (recycling or waste-to-energy, not landfill) whatever breaks, is not practical to dis- and reassemble, or doesn't fit the new apartment, and then buy new IKEA furniture that actually fits (and have it delivered and assembled by IKEA for probably not much more than the cost of moving "good" furniture).
Their stuff is exactly as good as it needs to be. If you were to cut it up and look inside, you'd be shocked how cheap the materials are (big parts of the LACK are literally made of cardboard), but in my experience, you don't notice this in everyday use, and that's the really important part. That's good engineering vs. the medieval approach of just throwing a lot of wood at it until it's definitely enough.
Combine it with scale, and the result is me being able to furnish my entire apartment for the price that I'd pay for a single piece of "quality" furniture. My desk (where I shelled out for the slightly more expensive "higher quality" version with a 25? year warranty) and kitchen countertop look like new despite heavy use.
Will everything survive a move? Maybe not. That's why I plan to sell to the next tenant what they want to keep, from the rest dump (recycling or waste-to-energy, not landfill) whatever breaks, is not practical to dis- and reassemble, or doesn't fit the new apartment, and then buy new IKEA furniture that actually fits (and have it delivered and assembled by IKEA for probably not much more than the cost of moving "good" furniture).
Okay, so everyone here seems to be complaining about the quality of Ikea furniture. I'm very confused. This has definitely not been my experience.
I have a television entertainment center setup that I've had for about 9 years and it's still a great piece of furniture. I have 2 kallax bookcases that are still working pretty great (though they are wobbly, but you're supposed to put supports on the back wall, anyway); and, I have a bed that I bought from them that has been working amazingly for probably 7ish years at this point. That's been the only real problem piece of equipment, one because a piece went missing during a move and the other because it has to be completely disassembled during a move and that tends to weaken it a bit.
Otherwise, my equipment from Ikea has been just fine over all. I'm even still using some of those junky $10 end tables for various things.
Has something more recently happened? Or have I just gotten lucky? Or?
I have a television entertainment center setup that I've had for about 9 years and it's still a great piece of furniture. I have 2 kallax bookcases that are still working pretty great (though they are wobbly, but you're supposed to put supports on the back wall, anyway); and, I have a bed that I bought from them that has been working amazingly for probably 7ish years at this point. That's been the only real problem piece of equipment, one because a piece went missing during a move and the other because it has to be completely disassembled during a move and that tends to weaken it a bit.
Otherwise, my equipment from Ikea has been just fine over all. I'm even still using some of those junky $10 end tables for various things.
Has something more recently happened? Or have I just gotten lucky? Or?
I finally got to the bottom of this, after moving in with my wife. I never owned IKEA furniture, but inherited some of hers. Her big chest of drawers wobbled, and some of the drawers were blowing out the bottom.
To her, and to anyone else, this is a shit piece of furniture. The truth is that it’s largely operator error. “High quality” furniture is almost impossible to fuck up. It’s preassembled and built like a tank.
IKEA furniture is what the owner makes it. If the owner builds it well, and keeps the screws tight, and doesn’t overstuff it — it’s brilliant stuff, and will last a long time.
If the owner does a half ass job putting it together, and lazily tightens the screws, and expects it to stay good forever with zero maintenance, it will devolve into crap.
You could find an analogy between Mac vs. Linux here somewhere — though, it’s not perfect.
Anyone who thinks IKEA is anything less than an industrial design marvel should go buy a few things there. Having done so recently, my perspective has completely shifted, and I actually love IKEA.
To her, and to anyone else, this is a shit piece of furniture. The truth is that it’s largely operator error. “High quality” furniture is almost impossible to fuck up. It’s preassembled and built like a tank.
IKEA furniture is what the owner makes it. If the owner builds it well, and keeps the screws tight, and doesn’t overstuff it — it’s brilliant stuff, and will last a long time.
If the owner does a half ass job putting it together, and lazily tightens the screws, and expects it to stay good forever with zero maintenance, it will devolve into crap.
You could find an analogy between Mac vs. Linux here somewhere — though, it’s not perfect.
Anyone who thinks IKEA is anything less than an industrial design marvel should go buy a few things there. Having done so recently, my perspective has completely shifted, and I actually love IKEA.
I have had to tighten the screws on my IKEA couch every few months - to a significant fraction of my friends, that would be grounds for replacing it. But it's just a quick wrench away from being sturdy! And you can wash the (removable) cushions on my $200 IKEA couch, which is not true for my $1000 fancy single-piece couch.
wood glue during assembly ftw.
I would not recommend this if you think you might sell the piece or move within a few years. It's nice to be able to disassemble a couch and move it through doorways much easier than if you didn't take it apart
I've never owned an ikea couch, but the big stuff I purchased like beds had metal main fasteners and were designed to be assembled and disassembled. Those don't need glue.
But I also did a chest of drawers (where you nail the backing on) and bookshelves and you just wouldn't be disassembling them. Those would benefit - greatly - from glue.
But I also did a chest of drawers (where you nail the backing on) and bookshelves and you just wouldn't be disassembling them. Those would benefit - greatly - from glue.
> Anyone who thinks IKEA is anything less than an industrial design marvel should go buy a few things there.
...and then buy flatpack furniture from a competitor and compare...
I've done it a couple of times for different reasons, and it's always a shitshow. Everyone loves to joke about the IKEA instruction manuals, but they're much, much, better than anything from the competition. Quality and innovation is always better with the IKEA stuff, because they're driving the technology, not copying from someone else. And the price is always better with IKEA, because they have economies of scale unlike any other competitor.
And if you want solid wood furniture, you can get that at IKEA too, but it costs 10x as much as the particleboard items. (And if you go to the competition, it costs 20x as much...)
...and then buy flatpack furniture from a competitor and compare...
I've done it a couple of times for different reasons, and it's always a shitshow. Everyone loves to joke about the IKEA instruction manuals, but they're much, much, better than anything from the competition. Quality and innovation is always better with the IKEA stuff, because they're driving the technology, not copying from someone else. And the price is always better with IKEA, because they have economies of scale unlike any other competitor.
And if you want solid wood furniture, you can get that at IKEA too, but it costs 10x as much as the particleboard items. (And if you go to the competition, it costs 20x as much...)
There are some Ikea products that are difficult to assemble in a lasting way. They are the exception though, and they're always the cheapest things.
The smallest Lack coffee table (€10 or so) is assembled with double-ended screws from the legs into the tabletop. There's no way it can take any sideways stress, e.g. by someone leaning or standing on it. A child falling onto the table can break it.
The larger Lack coffee table has the same legs, but adds a thin shelf for additional structure. If the shelf is loaded with a few books, it bows after a while. (I have this table.)
There are similar problems with the €10 metal furniture.
The smallest Lack coffee table (€10 or so) is assembled with double-ended screws from the legs into the tabletop. There's no way it can take any sideways stress, e.g. by someone leaning or standing on it. A child falling onto the table can break it.
The larger Lack coffee table has the same legs, but adds a thin shelf for additional structure. If the shelf is loaded with a few books, it bows after a while. (I have this table.)
There are similar problems with the €10 metal furniture.
Anything that’s under $20 is probably going to be disposable and not structurally sound. I completely agree, and think that’s by design. At that price point they know y’all are both considering the piece disposable.
If you buy one of their $50-$200 coffee tables though, they’ll be just as solid as most other furniture — assuming proper assembly — and are still a fraction of the price.
If you buy one of their $50-$200 coffee tables though, they’ll be just as solid as most other furniture — assuming proper assembly — and are still a fraction of the price.
I love ikea furniture, I see it as lego, and who could hate lego?
That said, a lot of ikea furniture is made of a fiberboard/mdf type material which is a light-duty material. For most use cases it doesn't matter.
But take that minimalist-look bookshelf with a fern and 2 books and add a whole row of books and it will sag.
I had bookshelves made of actual wood, and they don't sag (along the grain). I guess because the wood was evolved to hold tons of tree in place vertically and horizontally.
But ikea also sells stronger stuff like metal shelves. Just buy the appropriate stuff for the task.
That said, a lot of ikea furniture is made of a fiberboard/mdf type material which is a light-duty material. For most use cases it doesn't matter.
But take that minimalist-look bookshelf with a fern and 2 books and add a whole row of books and it will sag.
I had bookshelves made of actual wood, and they don't sag (along the grain). I guess because the wood was evolved to hold tons of tree in place vertically and horizontally.
But ikea also sells stronger stuff like metal shelves. Just buy the appropriate stuff for the task.
It’s a seriously evil plan. Used old IKEA furniture was made from wood and had some level of quality. These things could last decades. Current new things there are made from paper!!! I manage to damage these new things while assembling. New IKEA things can’t be moved, because assembling and disassembling them does not work anymore. It’s a great decision to destroy old used things, so they disappear from secondary market and IKEA can sell more of the paper trash.
Edit: paper furniture isn’t new and secret. Old article about it: https://gizmodo.com/and-now-ikea-is-making-sofas-out-of-pape...
Edit: paper furniture isn’t new and secret. Old article about it: https://gizmodo.com/and-now-ikea-is-making-sofas-out-of-pape...
Exactly!
They still have the real wooden furniture though. You don't have to buy the cheap paper ones.
And they make it very clear what things are made of in the meterials section. Most retailers don't
Same model of Kallax shelf now is made from paper. Price is even higher. I have older wooden models. The new one has even slightly different size. I was taken by surprise.
Kallax was never made from "wood". The new one is quite study particle board filled with honey comb paper, the old one was very thin MDF with carton spacers. I have both an old expedit and a new kallax and there is no noticable difference. The main downfall of both is the coating with is thin and easy to destroy.
Obviously I bought something else than IKEA product some 15 years ago. It was 5x5 huge wooden shelf. Had problems to lift parts of it and sold later for more than I paid. Deal of lifetime!
Expedit and Kallax have different size, German description: https://new-swedish-design.de/de/blog/expedit-vs.-kallax-reg...
Expedit and Kallax have different size, German description: https://new-swedish-design.de/de/blog/expedit-vs.-kallax-reg...
> Expedit and Kallax have different size
Yes, but Kallax is IKEA's official replacement for Expedit.
Yes, but Kallax is IKEA's official replacement for Expedit.
The predecessor of Kallax was also made from paper (and it was called Expedit). I know because I hade to saw it apart to be able to lug it to the recycling.
I disagree. I bought a lot of Ikea things over the past 5-10 years and it ages nicely (except for garden chairs and tables stored outside). Of course I never tried to disassemble it (why would I), but I disagree that quality is shoddy.
Quality is pretty good if you stay away from the economy white stuff. That gets chipped, wears quickly and gets dirty easily
On the other hand, it costs like $20 so you can't exactly expect it to be made of hardwood =)
True. Most of my living room is made out of the paper stuff. The non white laminates are pretty good.
Counter-anecdote: I had a wardrobe which lasted seven years and two house moves (i.e. three houses) very well, before being sold on to a new home a few months ago, in pretty decent condition.
Probably depends what you buy. If you buy the cheap-as-chips stuff, you get wha you pay for.
Probably depends what you buy. If you buy the cheap-as-chips stuff, you get wha you pay for.
that's not a counter anecdote - they said the old stuff would last, the new not.
Is there any evidence that the new stuff is worse? Because as far as I can tell, the wardrobes at IKEA today is the exact same models as the ones I bought 7 years ago. Billy bookshelves looks to be the same as the one I bought 15 years ago.
Billy definitely got worse over the last 30 years. We’ve got some from the nineties that are much more wood-like than what they sell today, still going strong.
They look the same, but the actual construction grade on the new Billys is awful. I bought a bookcase two years ago and the wood veneer has already chipped off, revealing the cardboard inside. Even the more expensive stuff isn't immune - I purchased a Malm at the same time and the drawers already have the bottoms gone and the metal frame parts have already bent.
> that's not a counter anecdote - they said the old stuff would last, the new not.
I would like to see some evidence on this. I read this all the time and it does not reflect my experiences.
I would like to see some evidence on this. I read this all the time and it does not reflect my experiences.
Interesting... wasn't aware that 7 years was 'old' in Ikea terms!
I strongly disagree with this assessment. IKEA does not benefit from non lasting furniture since you can get it swapped if it breaks. I bought a lot of furniture recently when we moved into our flat and a lot of non IKEA furniture we bought had issues very quickly, even expensive one.
I tend to think of Ikea as high end crap furniture. It's made mostly of the same components as all of the other crap furniture but it's generally had enough engineering and testing put into it that you can be sure it's strong enough for what you want it to do.
As an aside, if you ever buy the same piece of Ikea furniture a few years later it's interesting to see what has been changed.
As a bit of a hobbyist wood worker, Ikea furniture is slightly soul destroying. It's often more expensive to buy the wood stock materials than it is to buy the finished Ikea piece.
As an aside, if you ever buy the same piece of Ikea furniture a few years later it's interesting to see what has been changed.
As a bit of a hobbyist wood worker, Ikea furniture is slightly soul destroying. It's often more expensive to buy the wood stock materials than it is to buy the finished Ikea piece.
> It's often more expensive to buy the wood stock materials than it is to buy the finished Ikea piece.
Well, yes, we're back to supply chains here; just as on digikey you might find that the unit price for 1x an item is twice the unit price for 100x or even 10x, the supply chain to bring you a tiny quantity of wood to enjoy the premium experience of being a craftsman is quite expensive compared to anything mass-produced. You are paying for the experience of making it yourself.
(And this is before we get into relative wood pricing between countries; it took me a long time to understand why America had all those wood-framed and paneled houses while they're virtually absent in the UK, and of course it's because the local old forests were depleted in previous centuries. To the point where there was a whole pre-20th century peasant architecture of stone houses with only a single piece of serious lumber in: the roof beam.)
Well, yes, we're back to supply chains here; just as on digikey you might find that the unit price for 1x an item is twice the unit price for 100x or even 10x, the supply chain to bring you a tiny quantity of wood to enjoy the premium experience of being a craftsman is quite expensive compared to anything mass-produced. You are paying for the experience of making it yourself.
(And this is before we get into relative wood pricing between countries; it took me a long time to understand why America had all those wood-framed and paneled houses while they're virtually absent in the UK, and of course it's because the local old forests were depleted in previous centuries. To the point where there was a whole pre-20th century peasant architecture of stone houses with only a single piece of serious lumber in: the roof beam.)
Absolutely, it doesn't make it any less soul destroying to understand the logic of it though!
You may well be right about the reason traditional British houses are made of stone and brick. However, if you watch a new build house going up you may well be surprised to see that the structure of the house is entirely wood framed (often mostly off site). The floors and the roof are all held up by the wood framework. A brick facade is then installed and tied into the wood framework.
You may well be right about the reason traditional British houses are made of stone and brick. However, if you watch a new build house going up you may well be surprised to see that the structure of the house is entirely wood framed (often mostly off site). The floors and the roof are all held up by the wood framework. A brick facade is then installed and tied into the wood framework.
Depends on the country. It's a reinforced concrete structure( including floors) where I live and double brick walls with insulation between them here. We have lots of sand so concrete is relatively cheap. I have literally never seen a single house made out of wood here and I have been to a lot of construction sites.
I found that if you're the type of person that likes to customize their furniture then IKEA is a good starting point. Both for the choices of material and because a lot of stuff is compatible.
A big reason most of our (non custom made) furniture is IKEA is because it strikes a pretty ideal balance between price and quality and allows you to "get to town" with changes. Most other "crap furniture" does not at all support such modifications to it. For starters because some of the things we bought even though they said solid wood on the label did not actually fully consist of solid wood and were useless after cutting off a piece.
A big reason most of our (non custom made) furniture is IKEA is because it strikes a pretty ideal balance between price and quality and allows you to "get to town" with changes. Most other "crap furniture" does not at all support such modifications to it. For starters because some of the things we bought even though they said solid wood on the label did not actually fully consist of solid wood and were useless after cutting off a piece.
if you ever buy the same piece of Ikea furniture a few years later it's interesting to see what has been changed
We have the 'same' dresser bought three times in three different years. The first one is pretty solid wood, the second one is more particle board, but still decent, the newest one is much flimsier and much more lightweight particle board and is actually falling apart while the two older ones are still going strong.
We have the 'same' dresser bought three times in three different years. The first one is pretty solid wood, the second one is more particle board, but still decent, the newest one is much flimsier and much more lightweight particle board and is actually falling apart while the two older ones are still going strong.
On the other hand, I understand that customising/"hacking" Ikea products is also something of a thing.... e.g. https://www.ikeahackers.net
> As a bit of a hobbyist wood worker, Ikea furniture is slightly soul destroying. ...
Don’t tell me about it. I built an Enzo Mari bookshelf and afterwards realised I had built an IKEA Ivar but spent the double price in wood.
Don’t tell me about it. I built an Enzo Mari bookshelf and afterwards realised I had built an IKEA Ivar but spent the double price in wood.
"It’s a great decision to destroy old used things" - so you're just assuming they're not going to re-sell them like the article stated that they would? Isn't it more reasonable to wait and see what they actually do with them before criticising them?
"Used old IKEA furniture was made from wood and had some level of quality." - They still make furniture out of solid wood. I just bought some nicer solid wood bookshelves from them. You have to pay a bit more, but that should go without saying. You're probably not paying more than what you would have payed back in the day when taking inflation into account.
I wouldn't presume what's more sustainable in the culture we have today. Making something out of solid wood, and having it thrown away after 20 years because it wasn't fashionable, or wasn't taken care of properly, could easily be way worse than making something out of veneer, wood fiber and cardboard if it's used for at least 10 years.
"Current new things there are made from paper!!!" - Yeah, some things are. So what? In my experience they're still engineered to do the job they need to do for as long as you need it to. I know there's cardboard core in a coffee table and some wall shelves I have. I've taken the shelf down and up several times without issues, and pushed it quite hard to test it, since I knew my kids might try to pull on it.. it was just fine. Kids have been jumping on the coffee table without problems. If you can get sufficient strength with less materials, why not? You have to be DAMN sure that the table will be used for 50+ years if you're going to make it out of a more resource intensive solid hard-wood.
"New IKEA things can’t be moved, because assembling and disassembling them does not work anymore. " - Uh, I just disassembled and reassembled a not very old cabinet made of wood fiber from IKEA. It was fine.
The article stated that the furniture should be returned without disassembling it. At my local IKEA I can rent a van for just 3 hours for a very low price, that should fit a couple of bookshelves without disassembling them.
I don't think the idea that we should make everything out of solid wood and have it last for 100 years is actually sustainable today. We're resource-constrained today, making everything out of solid wood would put a huge strain on the environment at a time where it's already under extreme pressure. The population in western countries is already starting to decline, so I don't see the point of sacrificing the environment today to reduce resource consumption in 50+ years. I don't think it's likely that solid wood furniture will be exported to Africa and South-East Asia where there will be population growth in the coming decades either.
"Used old IKEA furniture was made from wood and had some level of quality." - They still make furniture out of solid wood. I just bought some nicer solid wood bookshelves from them. You have to pay a bit more, but that should go without saying. You're probably not paying more than what you would have payed back in the day when taking inflation into account.
I wouldn't presume what's more sustainable in the culture we have today. Making something out of solid wood, and having it thrown away after 20 years because it wasn't fashionable, or wasn't taken care of properly, could easily be way worse than making something out of veneer, wood fiber and cardboard if it's used for at least 10 years.
"Current new things there are made from paper!!!" - Yeah, some things are. So what? In my experience they're still engineered to do the job they need to do for as long as you need it to. I know there's cardboard core in a coffee table and some wall shelves I have. I've taken the shelf down and up several times without issues, and pushed it quite hard to test it, since I knew my kids might try to pull on it.. it was just fine. Kids have been jumping on the coffee table without problems. If you can get sufficient strength with less materials, why not? You have to be DAMN sure that the table will be used for 50+ years if you're going to make it out of a more resource intensive solid hard-wood.
"New IKEA things can’t be moved, because assembling and disassembling them does not work anymore. " - Uh, I just disassembled and reassembled a not very old cabinet made of wood fiber from IKEA. It was fine.
The article stated that the furniture should be returned without disassembling it. At my local IKEA I can rent a van for just 3 hours for a very low price, that should fit a couple of bookshelves without disassembling them.
I don't think the idea that we should make everything out of solid wood and have it last for 100 years is actually sustainable today. We're resource-constrained today, making everything out of solid wood would put a huge strain on the environment at a time where it's already under extreme pressure. The population in western countries is already starting to decline, so I don't see the point of sacrificing the environment today to reduce resource consumption in 50+ years. I don't think it's likely that solid wood furniture will be exported to Africa and South-East Asia where there will be population growth in the coming decades either.
Wood is actually pretty sustainable. It can be farmed and is a natural carbon capture.
It's worth emphasizing that issues with deforestation are primarily related either to using wood for fuel or land-use changes (replacing forests with soybean farms or palm oil). Using wood for paper pulp or construction is extremely manageable, and in terms of the latter, it's probably the most environmentally friendly construction material.
> Current new things there are made from paper!!!
Another point of view: the IKEA cardboard honeycomb material is AWESOME!
It's made from recycled material, it doesn't weigh anything, it's very strong when compared to weight and price, the surface is pretty resilient and it doesn't produce a lot of waste when it is inevitably discarded.
In today's single use culture (which needs to go away) it would be a terrible waste of resources to use nice hardwood to build cheap coffee tables that get swapped out when the fashion changes.
You can still get hardwood furniture that will last several lifetimes. It will make you feel a little lighter in the pocket, but you buy once and cry once.
Another point of view: the IKEA cardboard honeycomb material is AWESOME!
It's made from recycled material, it doesn't weigh anything, it's very strong when compared to weight and price, the surface is pretty resilient and it doesn't produce a lot of waste when it is inevitably discarded.
In today's single use culture (which needs to go away) it would be a terrible waste of resources to use nice hardwood to build cheap coffee tables that get swapped out when the fashion changes.
You can still get hardwood furniture that will last several lifetimes. It will make you feel a little lighter in the pocket, but you buy once and cry once.
I have another perspective: kids.
With ikea a kid can get his own setup, brand new and age appropriate.
Princess or racecar bed when they're young. bed with a desk underneath when they're getting to homework age, full sized bed when they reach 90th percentile. All with matching extras, and not too much money.
By the way, have you noticed the price and quality of furniture store furniture (when they're not "going out of business"?) A lot of it is either 10x ikea price or only 4x but still made with fiberboard underneath.
With ikea a kid can get his own setup, brand new and age appropriate.
Princess or racecar bed when they're young. bed with a desk underneath when they're getting to homework age, full sized bed when they reach 90th percentile. All with matching extras, and not too much money.
By the way, have you noticed the price and quality of furniture store furniture (when they're not "going out of business"?) A lot of it is either 10x ikea price or only 4x but still made with fiberboard underneath.
If only IKEA furniture didn't had a history of killing children because they don't meet furniture stability standard. Here's a couple stories from this year and before then.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/06/us/ikea-dresser-lawsuit-s...
https://www.newsweek.com/why-are-these-ikea-dressers-killing...
and many many more
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/06/us/ikea-dresser-lawsuit-s...
https://www.newsweek.com/why-are-these-ikea-dressers-killing...
and many many more
A lot of specialist children's toy and furniture companies have recalled deadly products. This isn't an Ikea-specific problem. Checking for recall notices before buying a product, and registering with the manufacturer to receive future notices is the wisest course of action.
If you buy a desk top made out of this honeycomb crap, if you put any weight on the desk top (e.g. sometimes rest your elbows there), be prepared to throw it out after a couple years - the whole surface will over time heavily deform under weight and will no longer be flat.
You're either unlucky or exaggerating. I've had cardboard honeycomb furniture for years and years with no major degradation.
If the surface coating gets damaged or the surface gets pierced or it becomes waterlogged from spills or environmental humidity, it will quickly go bad. But they're pretty resilient to normal household use.
You get what you pay for. A LACK honeycomb table costs 7€. What can you expect at this price?
If the surface coating gets damaged or the surface gets pierced or it becomes waterlogged from spills or environmental humidity, it will quickly go bad. But they're pretty resilient to normal household use.
You get what you pay for. A LACK honeycomb table costs 7€. What can you expect at this price?
> You're either unlucky or exaggerating.
I think I was neither, as I repeated it three times and always got the same result (I was moving every couple of years, so I threw out the crooked desk top when moving and bought identical one in a new place). Eventually, I stopped getting those $40 honeycomb desk tops and got a wooden one, from IKEA as well (made not from solid wood, but from sort of glued together mosaic of small wood pieces, don't know what it's called) for around $100, which is still good as new after 8 years of usage.
I think I was neither, as I repeated it three times and always got the same result (I was moving every couple of years, so I threw out the crooked desk top when moving and bought identical one in a new place). Eventually, I stopped getting those $40 honeycomb desk tops and got a wooden one, from IKEA as well (made not from solid wood, but from sort of glued together mosaic of small wood pieces, don't know what it's called) for around $100, which is still good as new after 8 years of usage.
I think expecting a $40 piece of furniture to survive multiple moves is unrealistic on your part. You get what you pay for, and $40 for a desk that makes it through even 2 residences is $20/location for a desk which is ridiculously cheap.
It wasn't a desk, just a desk top (i.e. a flat rectangular surface, 150cm x 70cm x 5cm IIRC). You screwed legs to it (sold separately), and thus had a simplest possible desk. Also, I agree that it was cheap, but it was a piece of furniture that has already shown signs of wear after a year and was ready for landfill after 3 years of usage. Under Polish law, I could probably successfully sue IKEA for selling me faulty product, because I could reasonably argue in court that no furniture, no matter how cheap, should be expected to last only 3 years. I mean, desks are not socks.
This nails my annoyance with going from low-middle income with generations old stuff to $200k/yr rich and with a sense for getting stuff that will last (relative value), to homeless where people want to throw cheap garbage at me. Silver lining is I’m unbreakable and persistent, so my sales skills are improving in order to eat and hold to that (eg. Justifying $9 tacos as 45 mins of min wage work and vs. $9 of comparable Taco Bell both vegan), and most of the stuff has lasted insanely long relative to wear, to like cents per use.
I think by trying to find evil in their scheme you miss the pretty obvious business logic:
- IKEA will only accept things in decent-ish condition and will (if necessary) refurbish and resell them.
- you get a voucher, not cash
So an assumption that they try to kill the second hand market seems absurd - on the contrary they become a marketplace for good-condition second hand products AND get people into the store with a voucher in hand (which means they might spend even more to buy something and like many vouchers may also end up unclaimed).
So no nefariousness here, just good business sense. Nonetheless having used options in the store, allowing you to decide to take that shelf new for 130 or that used one for 70 seems to me as a net gain for everyone.
- IKEA will only accept things in decent-ish condition and will (if necessary) refurbish and resell them.
- you get a voucher, not cash
So an assumption that they try to kill the second hand market seems absurd - on the contrary they become a marketplace for good-condition second hand products AND get people into the store with a voucher in hand (which means they might spend even more to buy something and like many vouchers may also end up unclaimed).
So no nefariousness here, just good business sense. Nonetheless having used options in the store, allowing you to decide to take that shelf new for 130 or that used one for 70 seems to me as a net gain for everyone.
This does look like it could kill the second-hand market, though. A voucher ties you to spending it on more IKEA, and if enough people exchange their used furniture for vouchers instead of selling it themselves, it'll discourage people from looking for the used furniture outside of IKEA - seeing second-hand IKEA furniture on sale you'll be asking yourself whether it's a lemon, because if it wasn't, then presumably the owner would sell it back to IKEA instead.
"Good business sense" seems to rarely correlate with benefits for society these days, so it's wise to be skeptical.
"Good business sense" seems to rarely correlate with benefits for society these days, so it's wise to be skeptical.
It looks more like being an attempt at getting a slice of the second-hand market and not to kill it.
> then presumably the owner would sell it back to IKEA instead.
Why? If you get a better price in the second hand market and someone will pick it up from your home, why would you sell it back to Ikea.
Why? If you get a better price in the second hand market and someone will pick it up from your home, why would you sell it back to Ikea.
The hassle of listing stuff on Craigslist or your local equivalent? Especially at the moment, a quick guaranteed transaction at a reputable place sounds a lot more appealing than having some random come over (or flake out), anguish over whether they actually want to buy or not, and maybe try to negotiate price on something you've already listed for $15.
Exactly. My wife and I are big into reuse, trying to donate, give away or sell all the things someone could use, instead of throwing them away. Experience is varied. Sometimes we do wish the process wouldn't have to involve dealing with actual people. We've been literally told to commit suicide, only because we didn't have time to make more photos of a thing freely given away, over the ones we posted on the group. Also, putting even a ridiculously small price tag on something not only doesn't scare problem people away - it brings out more of them.
The kind of people who tend to buy furniture first hand don't tend to like having to interact with the kind of people who tend to buy furniture (let alone cheap furniture) second hand if you catch my drift.
Also convenience.
Also convenience.
With very rare exceptions, I can't be bothered selling used stuff these days. I'd much rather just put something out for someone to take away or take a reduced amount for a no-hassle transaction like selling to Amazon.
They are nefarious. They lower the price of umbrellas when it rains!
The cheapest IKEA-stuff is indeed cheap, but buy stuff somewhat over that and they are still really durable.
In my perception the line is not so much a cheap/less cheap distinction than going roughly perpendicular to the novelty axis, separating fashionable from timeless. It's as if product management would intuitively combine short-lived aesthetics with short-lived materials. Maybe they know from the beginning which new releases are merely novelty and which are intended to become permanent fixtures in the programme?
It would make sense on many business levels (e.g. I'd image negative impact of flimsyness growing almost exponentially with each year a bad product stays in the catalogue, designing for cheap or sturdy being muchbless costly than designing for cheap and sturdy and so on), but I have no idea if Ikea are good enough to consider that consciously (I do think they'd at least be closer top that level than most others)
It would make sense on many business levels (e.g. I'd image negative impact of flimsyness growing almost exponentially with each year a bad product stays in the catalogue, designing for cheap or sturdy being muchbless costly than designing for cheap and sturdy and so on), but I have no idea if Ikea are good enough to consider that consciously (I do think they'd at least be closer top that level than most others)
IKEA’s quality hasn’t changed. This is just a typical example of selection bias. Of course the old IKEA furniture that still is around is of better quality than those that aren’t. They sold cardboard furniture 30 years ago too, it’s just that most of it isn’t around anymore, and the thirty year old furniture that still is around is the pieces that are of better quality.
I think it has. It is a subjective judgement but they used to have more products that were of higher grade than they do now. As an example, my parents had a garden table bought about 10-15 years ago. They now bought another one, very similar but still not. The finish was less exact, and the entire impression a step down. With the tables next to each other, very easy to see which is better made.
But you can find examples where the shift has gone the other way too. They have always, and still have, a range of qualities. We just bought a pair of armchairs that seems to be quite solidly built and with nice material and finish, but I also had to throw away some kitchen chairs after just few years that we bought in 2010 because they were falling apart. In my experience, even pieces that has the same name can change from year to year (in either direction quality wise), because they have found a way to rationalise the manufacturing further or found a different factory that will produce it slightly cheaper but with slightly different standards.
It sounds like you're describing survivorship bias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
Yes, that is a more precise term that I should have used. On the other hand, I’d argue that survivorship bias is a type of selection bias.
I've got one specific example, where I know the quality has changed. I've bought the same modelf of sofa about 10 years apart. Ikea has done some serious value engineering. Both sofas look very similar from outside, but they are in fact very different. The newer frame appears to be somehwhat lighter, yet sturdier at the same time. The cushions however are now lighter and far less comfortable. They obviously spend a lot of effort into making everything more efficient and cost effective - some of it at a slight cost in perceived quality.
I should have written that the overall quality hasn’t changed. A lot of products have changed, in one way or another, but the overall quality isn’t worse than it used to be.
IKEA stuff isn't BIFL grade, it's mostly affordable starter furniture.
I bought my first house a few years ago and started to look for more serious furniture. I spent months looking for a good cabinet for my TV + consoles + storage, but could't find anything. I buckled and went for an ikea setup in the end, using their design tool to come up with something really neat and affordable. I mean yeah it's particle board, but it looks good and will be just fine for the next ten years.
I bought my first house a few years ago and started to look for more serious furniture. I spent months looking for a good cabinet for my TV + consoles + storage, but could't find anything. I buckled and went for an ikea setup in the end, using their design tool to come up with something really neat and affordable. I mean yeah it's particle board, but it looks good and will be just fine for the next ten years.
My Galant desk is probably over 10 years old at this point. Still just fine; only thinking of replacing it because I want a standing desk now that I am WFH for the foreseeable future. Sure, the top is that cheap paper stuff, but it’s been broken down and assembled 7 times due to moving and survived just fine.
Why would you need a furniture that lasts decades if:
- it is expensive
- it doesn't match the design in ~5 years
People now want to be able to afford new furniture every 5-10 years, cardboard one is not the issue if it is designed to look good.
Minority of people would buy furniture 10x expensive that lasts 10x longer then the cardboard one (I wouldn't).
People now want to be able to afford new furniture every 5-10 years, cardboard one is not the issue if it is designed to look good.
Minority of people would buy furniture 10x expensive that lasts 10x longer then the cardboard one (I wouldn't).
you don't change the design so often...my parents have the same furniture for more than 35 years now. It's an house, not a website
My parents-in-law changed their furniture 10 years ago, previous change was when they moved into the house, which was 30 earlier.
And they now talk about changing it again, modern times force people to change clothes, furniture sooner than it was few decades ago.
I would- but that being said, I also just built a 2'x4' desk out of A piece of pre-cut grade A plywood and used some 2x4's that I cut for legs- and side supports- at a local makerspace. Total cost was about $45, not including the membership, and it's my desk that I can do whaveter I want with. I absolutely would spend the extra money on something that lasts 10 times longer, because that generally means that I won't have to replace it, or can resell it when I do.
That being said, I'm not super into fast fashion / 'influencer culture', either, so maybe I'm in the minority here?
That being said, I'm not super into fast fashion / 'influencer culture', either, so maybe I'm in the minority here?
Do we really need to exchange the furniture to match current trends? IKEA basically invented fast fashion for furniture, but we don't have to operate that way. Not to mention that is highly unsustainable.
People hate on Apple here for being unrepairable... but really Ikea is the best example of the worst kind of building-to-be-disposable.
Furniture like a simple table should last you a lifetime, and last your children a lifetime beyond that. You should be able to repair and fix damage. Most furniture can't even become obsolete for technical reasons.
Instead Ikea use veneers and crumbling particle materials so you can't fix it at all. Many people say you essentially can't move Ikea furniture between houses because you can't dismantle it and if you tried to it'd simply fall apart.
Ikea was a terrible thing to happen to furniture - disposable single-use furniture - madness.
Furniture like a simple table should last you a lifetime, and last your children a lifetime beyond that. You should be able to repair and fix damage. Most furniture can't even become obsolete for technical reasons.
Instead Ikea use veneers and crumbling particle materials so you can't fix it at all. Many people say you essentially can't move Ikea furniture between houses because you can't dismantle it and if you tried to it'd simply fall apart.
Ikea was a terrible thing to happen to furniture - disposable single-use furniture - madness.
Some of my IKEA bookshelves withstood at least two moves, retaining a reasonable shape. Though yes, particle board is not the sturdiest of materials, and is harder to amend than wood.
My IKEA dinner table is solid wood, though, perfectly repairable if need be; same with chairs.
My IKEA dinner table is solid wood, though, perfectly repairable if need be; same with chairs.
Ideed, a lot of this hate is undeserved: you can buy solid wood products at Ikea, they obviously won't be the cheapest option avaliable.
They are actually really good at detailing all materials used for their product - you know whether you are buying a shelf made of chrome plated steel, galvanised steel, epoxy coated steel, or galvanised and then epoxy coated.
Look at Argos on the other hand - you have no clue of it's paper honycomb, particleboard or wood. You get a cat in a bag.
They are actually really good at detailing all materials used for their product - you know whether you are buying a shelf made of chrome plated steel, galvanised steel, epoxy coated steel, or galvanised and then epoxy coated.
Look at Argos on the other hand - you have no clue of it's paper honycomb, particleboard or wood. You get a cat in a bag.
Same here. When I was in college I bought the shitiest, cheapest IKEA shelves (LACK?) basically made from cartboard that's mounted on a steel rack. They survived three moves, no damage whatsoever.
I'm sure that this does not apply to every piece they make, but I wouldn't shit on every thing they make.
Another thing I like about IKEA is that I can get parts for most of the things that tend to break. My friend had a custom made kitchen. One of the cabinet hindges broke but the contractor was nowhere to be found to replace it, and he had to scour the internets for that specific replacement. If one of the hindges in my IKEA kitchen breaks I'm sure I'll be able to replace it, probably at no cost, because it's still being made and probably will still be made in 10 years.
I'm sure that this does not apply to every piece they make, but I wouldn't shit on every thing they make.
Another thing I like about IKEA is that I can get parts for most of the things that tend to break. My friend had a custom made kitchen. One of the cabinet hindges broke but the contractor was nowhere to be found to replace it, and he had to scour the internets for that specific replacement. If one of the hindges in my IKEA kitchen breaks I'm sure I'll be able to replace it, probably at no cost, because it's still being made and probably will still be made in 10 years.
If one of the hindges in my IKEA kitchen breaks I'm sure I'll be able to replace it, probably at no cost, because it's still being made and probably will still be made in 10 years.
Don't be too sure of that. IKEA has greatly sped up their 'upgrade' cycle lately. Somethings are around unchanged year after year, but more and more things aren't. I've had several cases where I came back to IKEA 2 years later and wanted to expand or replace a thing in a furniture series only to find it discontinued.
Don't be too sure of that. IKEA has greatly sped up their 'upgrade' cycle lately. Somethings are around unchanged year after year, but more and more things aren't. I've had several cases where I came back to IKEA 2 years later and wanted to expand or replace a thing in a furniture series only to find it discontinued.
>Instead Ikea use veneers and crumbling particle materials so you can't fix it at all. Many people say you essentially can't move Ikea furniture between houses because you can't dismantle it and if you tried to it'd simply fall apart.
Not only say that. It has happened to me. I bought 3 doors wardrobe with 2 mirror doors. 2 years later I was moving to a different accommodation, wardrobe fall apart when we were holding it above stairs. Only mirror doors were reusable. The rest filled full container for garbage.
I'm all for buy-for-life, so I bought only oak-made furniture since then. I still visit IKEA quite often, but just for plants and clearance section where you can find sheepskin, natural carpets and IoT lights for 1/3 of price. They also have really good hot chocolate and cakes :D
Not only say that. It has happened to me. I bought 3 doors wardrobe with 2 mirror doors. 2 years later I was moving to a different accommodation, wardrobe fall apart when we were holding it above stairs. Only mirror doors were reusable. The rest filled full container for garbage.
I'm all for buy-for-life, so I bought only oak-made furniture since then. I still visit IKEA quite often, but just for plants and clearance section where you can find sheepskin, natural carpets and IoT lights for 1/3 of price. They also have really good hot chocolate and cakes :D
IKEA Pax wardrobes are quite decent and easy to fix as they are modular. Bit more expensive but still very affordable.
The only issue I've had with pax is the need to replace the backboard each time I've moved it (twice). Next time I'm rigging up my own thing to make it removable.
As posted elsewhere in this thread, my counter-anecdote: I had a pax wardrobe (also with two mirror doors!) which lasted seven years and two house moves (i.e. three houses) very well, before being sold on to a new home a few months ago, in pretty decent condition.
where did you buy oak made furniture? in my experience most furniture of a similar price is worse than IKEA not better
These days I buy almost all my furniture from John Lewis. Stopped giving Ikea more chances after I graduated.
I can't say this is never a problem-can't prove a negative-but my house is full of IKEA furniture, half of it bought used, most of it made of particle board like you say (although they do have nicer real wood products), all of which having survived several decades of use.
A leg came off my desk once. I drilled new holes and was able to screw the leg back in. Similarly a slide on a dresser drawer somehow got bent out of shape and I was able to get a single replacement part sent to me from IKEA. The only real problem I have with IKEA furniture is that most of it can't survive disassembly and reassembly well enough for me to flat-pack it when moving; I have to move it fully assembled.
I am amazed that such cheap (in both price and quality) furniture can last that long. Granted, I haven't ever tried to karate chop my desk in half, but I have come to the conclusion that even the worst furniture is fine. But I probably won't give my $20 desk to my eventual grandkids.
A leg came off my desk once. I drilled new holes and was able to screw the leg back in. Similarly a slide on a dresser drawer somehow got bent out of shape and I was able to get a single replacement part sent to me from IKEA. The only real problem I have with IKEA furniture is that most of it can't survive disassembly and reassembly well enough for me to flat-pack it when moving; I have to move it fully assembled.
I am amazed that such cheap (in both price and quality) furniture can last that long. Granted, I haven't ever tried to karate chop my desk in half, but I have come to the conclusion that even the worst furniture is fine. But I probably won't give my $20 desk to my eventual grandkids.
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This is sort of true. I moved a wardrobe 3 times and by the third time is was kind of falling apart. But also it's pretty irrelevant because if it hadn't been IKEA furniture I wouldn't have been able to move it at all. Most furniture does not disassemble nearly as well as IKEA furniture.
But it sure would be nice if they used fewer one-or-two-time fixings like particle board screws.
But it sure would be nice if they used fewer one-or-two-time fixings like particle board screws.
You can buy packs of the screws etc. separately, though, and for a lot of the products you can also buy e.g. shelving, drawers and doors separately if anything breaks. At least I've always been able to do that in the IKEA's near me.
I don't see how extra screws would help - it's the wood that fails. And can you really buy spare parts? For example if you just need the side pieces for a bed can you buy those? I somehow doubt it. The "Spare Parts" page on their website is just an email form.
You can definitely move couches, beds, and tables from IKEA between houses, I've done it a ton of times. Yes, you generally can't fix it, but that's because you bought the cheap particle stuff instead of their higher end thing.
There are some things that will fall apart (wardrobes, kitchens etc), having participated in a few moves: I assure you that non-ikea stuff from the '70s will also have issues: panels will have bent, cheap parts will crumble, adjustments that were made to fit it to the original position won't work anymore etc.
That is, even if you wanted, because the style of a 30 year old wardrobe is likely to not fit anything you will buy in this decade and you'll still not want it around.
The idea of furniture that lasts a lifetime is dead because of the pace of modern fashion changes, not because you can't reuse things, the same way it is for shoes and clothes.
There are some things that will fall apart (wardrobes, kitchens etc), having participated in a few moves: I assure you that non-ikea stuff from the '70s will also have issues: panels will have bent, cheap parts will crumble, adjustments that were made to fit it to the original position won't work anymore etc.
That is, even if you wanted, because the style of a 30 year old wardrobe is likely to not fit anything you will buy in this decade and you'll still not want it around.
The idea of furniture that lasts a lifetime is dead because of the pace of modern fashion changes, not because you can't reuse things, the same way it is for shoes and clothes.
> disposable single-use furniture
Yes, but that's not such a big problem
- MDF/Particulate is more efficient at using the whole tree and more friendly to native forests as opposed to traditional furniture
- Less weight than traditional furniture
- Moving costs > purchase costs.
You want traditional solid furniture? Go to a flea market, used furniture store. It can probably be gotten for cheap as it is a nuisance. It weights a ton, it is hard to move, it is less ergonomic (though I have some beef with some current Ikea stuff) etc
Yes it will last forever, but it does require maintenance (which most of the time can't be done in-situ, so take that heavy thing downstairs, to a shop, etc, back, etc). Not practical
So thanks but no thanks
Yes, but that's not such a big problem
- MDF/Particulate is more efficient at using the whole tree and more friendly to native forests as opposed to traditional furniture
- Less weight than traditional furniture
- Moving costs > purchase costs.
You want traditional solid furniture? Go to a flea market, used furniture store. It can probably be gotten for cheap as it is a nuisance. It weights a ton, it is hard to move, it is less ergonomic (though I have some beef with some current Ikea stuff) etc
Yes it will last forever, but it does require maintenance (which most of the time can't be done in-situ, so take that heavy thing downstairs, to a shop, etc, back, etc). Not practical
So thanks but no thanks
> .. Moving costs > purchase costs
From homefinding TV shows I am aware of some places where selling houses or apartments furnished seems to be a thing. At the other end of things, there are cultures where people take their kitchen cabinets with them. .. I tend to think of more energy-constrained futures, and generational downsizing in terms of housing, so I wonder if the former could spread. Convenience in moving > signalling perfect taste?
From homefinding TV shows I am aware of some places where selling houses or apartments furnished seems to be a thing. At the other end of things, there are cultures where people take their kitchen cabinets with them. .. I tend to think of more energy-constrained futures, and generational downsizing in terms of housing, so I wonder if the former could spread. Convenience in moving > signalling perfect taste?
I agree with you on the other points but not about weight. I find that particle board material is much heavier than solid wood of equivalent strength.
Heavier than pine probably, but not heavier than the more dense woods
Quick Googling reveals that it is roughly as heavy as oak and heavier than for example birch.
I don't understand how you handle your furniture. Even the cheap ones can be reassembled carefully, but you need to handle it gently and slowly. There is a second hand market for all of it.
The disparate experiences across people lead me to think that some people are unknowingly handling it roughly and quickly without much thought.
Also, if you can afford to get better ones, get them. Although Ikea is already not the cheapest, we used to be lower middle class in Hungary and couldn't afford Ikea stuff and bought similar particle board stuff from no name places that was way harder to assemble and was less structurally strong. For all the hate it gets, Ikea is well designed for average Western European and North American students and young adults. Once you earn like an average American middle class family, you can afford better furniture, so if it's important to you, do it. But many people know what they are getting and are satisfied with the tradeoffs.
The disparate experiences across people lead me to think that some people are unknowingly handling it roughly and quickly without much thought.
Also, if you can afford to get better ones, get them. Although Ikea is already not the cheapest, we used to be lower middle class in Hungary and couldn't afford Ikea stuff and bought similar particle board stuff from no name places that was way harder to assemble and was less structurally strong. For all the hate it gets, Ikea is well designed for average Western European and North American students and young adults. Once you earn like an average American middle class family, you can afford better furniture, so if it's important to you, do it. But many people know what they are getting and are satisfied with the tradeoffs.
I don't think it's a question of how it's handled - it's simple material science facts that particle board has low strength, cannot be repaired, and doesn't resist things like getting water spilt on it.
Almost all my furniture has been particle boards (more stuff is particle boards than amateurs would think) since my childhood and it's been okay. Yeah, if you soak it in water it swells. It can be repaired very well, you can drill new holes, you can attach metal pieces to strengthen it etc. If you take it apart carefully, it can be reassembled. Done it many times. If you rip it apart quickly, and force things, you may damage it.
> Furniture like a simple table should last you a lifetime
Furniture might last. Living arrangements don't, especially in the early part of life as an independent adult. The fate of quite a lot of cheap furniture is to be dumped in the street, unfortunately - but that's also mostly mattresses and couches, which aren't part of the IKEA re-use scheme.
There's an existing charity shop economy of used furniture, much of which is house clearances of the dead; it's pretty cheap, because the cost of moving it around dominates.
Furniture might last. Living arrangements don't, especially in the early part of life as an independent adult. The fate of quite a lot of cheap furniture is to be dumped in the street, unfortunately - but that's also mostly mattresses and couches, which aren't part of the IKEA re-use scheme.
There's an existing charity shop economy of used furniture, much of which is house clearances of the dead; it's pretty cheap, because the cost of moving it around dominates.
Particle board isn't always unfixable. To be fair, if a wooden shelf on some furniture splits, most folks aren't going to be able to fix it well either. You can still use putty to fix wood screw holes sometimes, though.
It isn't like older furniture was always able to be dismantled. It depended on what it was. Bedframe? Sure. Take the legs off of the dining table. And I'm pretty sure you can do this to most Ikea furniture.
On the other hand, you'd take the drawers out of a dress or desk. The shelves out of a bookcase. And simply move what was left. That tall, heavy display cabinet went in one piece. That huge desk was still heavy without the drawers, and taking it apart would absolutely ruin it.
I'll also point out that fewer people would have furniture if it weren't for Ikea and other flat pack furniture.
It isn't like older furniture was always able to be dismantled. It depended on what it was. Bedframe? Sure. Take the legs off of the dining table. And I'm pretty sure you can do this to most Ikea furniture.
On the other hand, you'd take the drawers out of a dress or desk. The shelves out of a bookcase. And simply move what was left. That tall, heavy display cabinet went in one piece. That huge desk was still heavy without the drawers, and taking it apart would absolutely ruin it.
I'll also point out that fewer people would have furniture if it weren't for Ikea and other flat pack furniture.
"Furniture like a simple table should last you a lifetime, and last your children a lifetime beyond that. "
Have you thought about the consequences if everyone bought furniture like that? There's a reason why solid wood furniture is more expensive, it's a LOT more resource intensive and wasteful during manufacturing. Imagine if everyone started buying all solid wood furniture tomorrow? How many more trees would be cut down? How much wood fiber left over from making other products would be wasted because people wouldn't want it for furniture anymore?
"Ikea was a terrible thing to happen to furniture - disposable single-use furniture - madness."
I haven't seen a single person back this up with any facts, i.e. - what's the resource use per year of an average IKEA furniture and the alternative?
I'm willing to bet you and others are just making a giant assumption, based on your own personal annoyance that the furniture isn't as solid as you'd like.
I'm not going to make a strong counter-claim. Yes, IKEAs way could be worse, but I've yet to see proof of that, and you can make a pretty strong argument that IKEAs way has a potential to be more sustainable. Especially if they manage to recycle the wood fibers efficiently.
"Many people say you essentially can't move Ikea furniture between houses because you can't dismantle it and if you tried to it'd simply fall apart." - In my experience that's simply wrong. I just disassembled/reassembled a relatively new IKEA wardrobe during renovation. I did not handle it gently. It was no problem. Yeah, you can get some damage, but nothing a bit of glue, an extra screw and/or plaster+paint can't fix easily. You can get catastrophic damage if you're not careful, but I'm willing to bet that the probability of that is low enough that the global impact on average lifetime is low.
Have you thought about the consequences if everyone bought furniture like that? There's a reason why solid wood furniture is more expensive, it's a LOT more resource intensive and wasteful during manufacturing. Imagine if everyone started buying all solid wood furniture tomorrow? How many more trees would be cut down? How much wood fiber left over from making other products would be wasted because people wouldn't want it for furniture anymore?
"Ikea was a terrible thing to happen to furniture - disposable single-use furniture - madness."
I haven't seen a single person back this up with any facts, i.e. - what's the resource use per year of an average IKEA furniture and the alternative?
I'm willing to bet you and others are just making a giant assumption, based on your own personal annoyance that the furniture isn't as solid as you'd like.
I'm not going to make a strong counter-claim. Yes, IKEAs way could be worse, but I've yet to see proof of that, and you can make a pretty strong argument that IKEAs way has a potential to be more sustainable. Especially if they manage to recycle the wood fibers efficiently.
"Many people say you essentially can't move Ikea furniture between houses because you can't dismantle it and if you tried to it'd simply fall apart." - In my experience that's simply wrong. I just disassembled/reassembled a relatively new IKEA wardrobe during renovation. I did not handle it gently. It was no problem. Yeah, you can get some damage, but nothing a bit of glue, an extra screw and/or plaster+paint can't fix easily. You can get catastrophic damage if you're not careful, but I'm willing to bet that the probability of that is low enough that the global impact on average lifetime is low.
> Have you thought about the consequences if everyone bought furniture like that? There's a reason why solid wood furniture is more expensive, it's a LOT more resource intensive and wasteful during manufacturing. Imagine if everyone started buying all solid wood furniture tomorrow?
The priority is reduce, reuse, recycle.
Buying lifetime furniture is working to 'reduce'.
Ikea is (only now) introducing 'recycle', the worst option of the three.
The priority is reduce, reuse, recycle.
Buying lifetime furniture is working to 'reduce'.
Ikea is (only now) introducing 'recycle', the worst option of the three.
Well it's also selling on the used furniture with repairs, which I think covers both reduce and reuse.
> Have you thought about the consequences if everyone bought furniture like that? There's a reason why solid wood furniture is more expensive, it's a LOT more resource intensive and wasteful during manufacturing. Imagine if everyone started buying all solid wood furniture tomorrow? How many more trees would be cut down? How much wood fiber left over from making other products would be wasted because people wouldn't want it for furniture anymore?
What if I turn that argument around? What if people started buying solid wood furniture? It would result in an increased amount of wood being used in items where the carbon will remain in place for a very long time. The trees would be replaced with newly planted ones that sequester even more carbon, and so we end up with less carbon in the atmosphere.
Now, this obviously assumes that we can make the solid wood furniture with a small enough carbon footprint for this to work, but the general idea isn't bad.
What if I turn that argument around? What if people started buying solid wood furniture? It would result in an increased amount of wood being used in items where the carbon will remain in place for a very long time. The trees would be replaced with newly planted ones that sequester even more carbon, and so we end up with less carbon in the atmosphere.
Now, this obviously assumes that we can make the solid wood furniture with a small enough carbon footprint for this to work, but the general idea isn't bad.
Particle board and assemble-yourself were around way before IKEA made it to my town. I don't remember visiting IKEA until the early 2000s in the US. IKEA was nice because things were flat-packed, with simpler assembly instructions, and modular enough that you could repair or add on. I also noticed the furniture was significantly lighter--not so much that it was functionally flimsy, but way easier to move place to place.
I've bought non-IKEA furniture since and it's just like I remember it. Even pre-assembled stuff is all veneer, so when your kid bangs it up you can't really touch it up or buff it out.
I'd love to get all solid wood stuff. (IKEA does have some solid-wood stuff. I have a bookshelf I've moved 4 or 5 times and have had for probably 10 years) I hear some parts of the world still readily sell solid wood furniture at reasonable prices--just not around me. One issue with solid wood furniture is the size and weight. Fitting it through a door, into a car, or up 3 flights of stairs doesn't make sense for a college dorm or a studio apartment.
I've bought non-IKEA furniture since and it's just like I remember it. Even pre-assembled stuff is all veneer, so when your kid bangs it up you can't really touch it up or buff it out.
I'd love to get all solid wood stuff. (IKEA does have some solid-wood stuff. I have a bookshelf I've moved 4 or 5 times and have had for probably 10 years) I hear some parts of the world still readily sell solid wood furniture at reasonable prices--just not around me. One issue with solid wood furniture is the size and weight. Fitting it through a door, into a car, or up 3 flights of stairs doesn't make sense for a college dorm or a studio apartment.
> IKEA does have some solid-wood stuff.
The majority of their catalogue items are actually solid wood, the particleboard items are the minority.
But by sales volume, it's very much the other way around, which gives you the wrong impression about what they actually offer.
The majority of their catalogue items are actually solid wood, the particleboard items are the minority.
But by sales volume, it's very much the other way around, which gives you the wrong impression about what they actually offer.
It should, but it'll cost more, because proper wood and construction costs money (surprise!).
I bought a secondhand oak coffee table, heavy and chunky, and I have no clue how old it is; could be 20, could be 70, we may never know. But buying something like that new would cost hundreds, probably.
I bought a secondhand oak coffee table, heavy and chunky, and I have no clue how old it is; could be 20, could be 70, we may never know. But buying something like that new would cost hundreds, probably.
Why would you like to use the same table for decades?
In 10 years time you will see a nicer, more modern table that you could buy.
It is similar to phones, you could use old dumbphone for 10 years (I still have mine somewhere and use it when I send my smartwatch for repairs), but majority of people don't want to.
In 10 years time you will see a nicer, more modern table that you could buy.
It is similar to phones, you could use old dumbphone for 10 years (I still have mine somewhere and use it when I send my smartwatch for repairs), but majority of people don't want to.
This is crazy. What does a more modern table do that an older one doesn't? Buy timeless styling and keep forever.
There is no such thing as timeless styling.
Styling is like UX, some prefer simple others prefer elaborate.
This obsession with newer, nicer and pristine - it has to be clean, scratchless, beautiful - is what's killing the habitability of our planet right now. And it's in a large part driven by marketing.
The argument makes some sense for phones, which are fast-evolving hardware. Typical house furniture is a mature design.
The argument makes some sense for phones, which are fast-evolving hardware. Typical house furniture is a mature design.
The irony in it all is that there are businesses specializing in new furniture that looks old and worn because people like the look. But nobody seems to be interested re-using an existing piece of furniture.
You measure other people only by your own means.
For example I don't care about any furniture my parents had, it was ugly and it sucked. Not going into "fine china" or whatever crap my mother used to hoard.
When I move between flats, I might reuse some furniture but a lot of it I would have to sell. I would lose loads of money if I would buy expensive furniture and then sell it for 70% of what I paid for, I don't even think I could get that much for used furniture, probably 50% would be more realistic.
Cheap IKEA I can basically give away and not have to haggle for price with cheapskates over the phone (mental health toll for me is too high if I have to sell something). If it is broken I can dump it and since it is cardboard it probably will not be that bad for environment.
If someone is having steady life conditions for next 20 years then he can afford "life time" items. With current situation I would not count on that and I'd rather have stuff that I can easily dispose/give away in case I have to move to smaller apartment because I cannot afford current one anymore.
Owning things also has its costs, like if I am renting flat and have shitty neighbors I can just move to other place. When I would own a flat I am stuck with whatever comes my way.
For example I don't care about any furniture my parents had, it was ugly and it sucked. Not going into "fine china" or whatever crap my mother used to hoard.
When I move between flats, I might reuse some furniture but a lot of it I would have to sell. I would lose loads of money if I would buy expensive furniture and then sell it for 70% of what I paid for, I don't even think I could get that much for used furniture, probably 50% would be more realistic.
Cheap IKEA I can basically give away and not have to haggle for price with cheapskates over the phone (mental health toll for me is too high if I have to sell something). If it is broken I can dump it and since it is cardboard it probably will not be that bad for environment.
If someone is having steady life conditions for next 20 years then he can afford "life time" items. With current situation I would not count on that and I'd rather have stuff that I can easily dispose/give away in case I have to move to smaller apartment because I cannot afford current one anymore.
Owning things also has its costs, like if I am renting flat and have shitty neighbors I can just move to other place. When I would own a flat I am stuck with whatever comes my way.
>and last your children a lifetime beyond that.
Kids move out and get their own places and their own furniture long before their parents kick the bucket. My wife's grandmother had a house of solid wood furniture. It all went into an estate sale and I'm guessing most of it ended up in the landfill. Her kids already had their own houses full of their own furniture and lived across the country.
Kids move out and get their own places and their own furniture long before their parents kick the bucket. My wife's grandmother had a house of solid wood furniture. It all went into an estate sale and I'm guessing most of it ended up in the landfill. Her kids already had their own houses full of their own furniture and lived across the country.
> Instead Ikea use veneers and crumbling particle materials so you can't fix it at all.
As always, you get what you pay for.
A LACK coffee table costs $30, because it's made of particleboard.
But if you buy a HEMNES coffee table or a LIATORP for example, you will get a piece of solid wood furniture that will last generations, but it's gonna cost you $300 instead.
It's not exactly surprising that people are buying the "good enough" stuff that's 10x cheaper, because if that option didn't exist, people would simply buy a lot less furniture overall, because quality furniture is expensive, even at IKEA.
As always, you get what you pay for.
A LACK coffee table costs $30, because it's made of particleboard.
But if you buy a HEMNES coffee table or a LIATORP for example, you will get a piece of solid wood furniture that will last generations, but it's gonna cost you $300 instead.
It's not exactly surprising that people are buying the "good enough" stuff that's 10x cheaper, because if that option didn't exist, people would simply buy a lot less furniture overall, because quality furniture is expensive, even at IKEA.
How many coffee tables do you need in your life? Buy once. $300 is completely reasonable for a lifetime of support for your coffee.
This reads like a joke:
By making sustainable living more simple and accessible, Ikea hopes that the initiative will help its customers take a stand against excessive consumption this Black Friday and in the years to come
If you want to solve excessive consumption, you should do that exactly, which means tackling the problem itself and somehow achieving that people reduce the amount of things bought.
Offering recycling on the other hand doesn't really do that - or at least, I am not aware of a mechanism psychological or otherwise which makes consumers buy less because of recycling. And even if it does isn't it still a band-aid solution, and you're still not dealing with the root cause? Moreover, it does seem recycling is a nice way both for IKEA and customers to buy themselves the comforting (but fake) feeling of doing something sustainable while at the same time keeping things going as usual. Or who knows, even increasing 'hey I can recycle this so doesn't matter if I buy more, I'm still doing my thing for the planet'.
By making sustainable living more simple and accessible, Ikea hopes that the initiative will help its customers take a stand against excessive consumption this Black Friday and in the years to come
If you want to solve excessive consumption, you should do that exactly, which means tackling the problem itself and somehow achieving that people reduce the amount of things bought.
Offering recycling on the other hand doesn't really do that - or at least, I am not aware of a mechanism psychological or otherwise which makes consumers buy less because of recycling. And even if it does isn't it still a band-aid solution, and you're still not dealing with the root cause? Moreover, it does seem recycling is a nice way both for IKEA and customers to buy themselves the comforting (but fake) feeling of doing something sustainable while at the same time keeping things going as usual. Or who knows, even increasing 'hey I can recycle this so doesn't matter if I buy more, I'm still doing my thing for the planet'.
Yeah. Recycling is just a crappy band-aid. I finally realized that when I imagined our modern consumption as a pipeline:
PRODUCTION CONSUMPTION
RAW =====*=============*=========> LANDFILL
MATERIALS
RECYCLING (small %)
/--------------------------\
| PRODUCTION CONSUMPTION |
RAW v=====*============*=======^=> LANDFILL
MATERIALS
The 'small %' and amount of times something can be recycled does depend on the material involved though. So while typical plastics are hard to recycle and a lot of it doen't even get sorted and hence goes straight to landfill, materials like steel and glass do much better. Moreover IIRC recycling steel even needs less energy than producing it from raw materials.
the question is how to connect this in a circular economy and not just through some random company's optional light touch corporate social responsibility cum virtue signaling marcoms program.
Find a way to proportionally link production with disposal and you will see a 5 pack of undies from Kmart change into a durable good that's built to last.
Find a way to proportionally link production with disposal and you will see a 5 pack of undies from Kmart change into a durable good that's built to last.
Read the article again:
> Ikea will soon be selling pre-used versions of some of its best sellers
> Ikea said that anything that cannot be resold will be recycled.
Recycling is a last resort here, the primary news here is that IKEA is going to be selling refurbished items (aka re-use) and incentivising people to partake by offering trade-in value when they bring their items back.
This move is primarily meant to counter people throwing away furniture prematurely when moving. This way people can re-sell their items to IKEA, and IKEA will sell it in good state to other people that can re-use it. This seems like it would be better for the environment than everybody logging around heavy furniture cross-country (or cross-continent), because unnecessary transport costs are avoided, and is certainly much better than the status quo of people throwing away old IKEA furniture that is still perfectly usable.
To me this seems like a good idea. Do you have any better ideas? Reduce would be theoretically preferable, but good luck convincing people not to use a bed, a desk or a dining room table.
> Ikea will soon be selling pre-used versions of some of its best sellers
> Ikea said that anything that cannot be resold will be recycled.
Recycling is a last resort here, the primary news here is that IKEA is going to be selling refurbished items (aka re-use) and incentivising people to partake by offering trade-in value when they bring their items back.
This move is primarily meant to counter people throwing away furniture prematurely when moving. This way people can re-sell their items to IKEA, and IKEA will sell it in good state to other people that can re-use it. This seems like it would be better for the environment than everybody logging around heavy furniture cross-country (or cross-continent), because unnecessary transport costs are avoided, and is certainly much better than the status quo of people throwing away old IKEA furniture that is still perfectly usable.
To me this seems like a good idea. Do you have any better ideas? Reduce would be theoretically preferable, but good luck convincing people not to use a bed, a desk or a dining room table.
> Recycling is a last resort here
Not surprised. Ikea furniture is made out of particle board--saw dust with resins. Last I researched it can't be recycled.
Not surprised. Ikea furniture is made out of particle board--saw dust with resins. Last I researched it can't be recycled.
Ikea said that anything that cannot be resold will be recycled.
Is that even technically possible? 'Most of it', perhaps, though for some of the materials they use I'd really like to see the technical side of how they o it, but 'anything' seems far fetched.
This move is primarily meant to counter people throwing away furniture prematurely when moving
Yes, I'm not denying that. This is what they are doing, but at the same time they are saying hopes that the initiative will help its customers take a stand against excessive consumption. My point being: where is the link between those 2?
So just to be clear: I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not, probably leaning towards good, but with a bunch of considerations in mind: selling their things second hand or even giving away is what people also have been doing already. In case of selling they get back money, with IKEA they'll get back vouchers, limited to 50%. Imo it adds to the idea that recycling is good. It is, but only if there really is recycling (for some products it's a complete myth pushed by the industry) and even then, not having to recycle in the first place is better. From the article: should then return them - fully assembled - to the returns desk - this sounds like they're expecting people to transport complete things (or disassmble/reassemble on the spot). That's kind of a showstopper.
This seems like it would be better for the environment than everybody logging around heavy furniture cross-country (or cross-continent), because unnecessary transport costs are avoided
This is tricky. Current system: buy X, transport X home, transport X to landfill. Or with second hand: buy X, transport X home, transport X to new home. New system: buy X, transport X home, transport X back to IKEA, transport X to new home or landfill. So there are a lot of variables to consider here so I wouldn't be suprised if ot turns out to be sometimes better and sometimes worse, i.e. really hard to use it in an argument of it being better overall.
good luck convincing people not to use a bed, a desk or a dining room table.
To state the obvious: that is not at all what this is about and as far as I can tell I also never gave that impression in my comment. It's about teaching people about the value of durability, i.e. convincing people they do not have to buy a new bed or desk every x years. Now how do you achive that? I honestly don't know for sure. But seeing that previous generations had no (or much less) problems with that, it means it's something which is teacheable, so I'd start with that. As a push back agains consumerism, educate the young ones and explain them there are cases where it is possible to buy one thing for a lifetime (or so), that there is nothing wrong with buying second had goods, etc.
Is that even technically possible? 'Most of it', perhaps, though for some of the materials they use I'd really like to see the technical side of how they o it, but 'anything' seems far fetched.
This move is primarily meant to counter people throwing away furniture prematurely when moving
Yes, I'm not denying that. This is what they are doing, but at the same time they are saying hopes that the initiative will help its customers take a stand against excessive consumption. My point being: where is the link between those 2?
So just to be clear: I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not, probably leaning towards good, but with a bunch of considerations in mind: selling their things second hand or even giving away is what people also have been doing already. In case of selling they get back money, with IKEA they'll get back vouchers, limited to 50%. Imo it adds to the idea that recycling is good. It is, but only if there really is recycling (for some products it's a complete myth pushed by the industry) and even then, not having to recycle in the first place is better. From the article: should then return them - fully assembled - to the returns desk - this sounds like they're expecting people to transport complete things (or disassmble/reassemble on the spot). That's kind of a showstopper.
This seems like it would be better for the environment than everybody logging around heavy furniture cross-country (or cross-continent), because unnecessary transport costs are avoided
This is tricky. Current system: buy X, transport X home, transport X to landfill. Or with second hand: buy X, transport X home, transport X to new home. New system: buy X, transport X home, transport X back to IKEA, transport X to new home or landfill. So there are a lot of variables to consider here so I wouldn't be suprised if ot turns out to be sometimes better and sometimes worse, i.e. really hard to use it in an argument of it being better overall.
good luck convincing people not to use a bed, a desk or a dining room table.
To state the obvious: that is not at all what this is about and as far as I can tell I also never gave that impression in my comment. It's about teaching people about the value of durability, i.e. convincing people they do not have to buy a new bed or desk every x years. Now how do you achive that? I honestly don't know for sure. But seeing that previous generations had no (or much less) problems with that, it means it's something which is teacheable, so I'd start with that. As a push back agains consumerism, educate the young ones and explain them there are cases where it is possible to buy one thing for a lifetime (or so), that there is nothing wrong with buying second had goods, etc.
> So just to be clear: I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not, probably leaning towards good, but with a bunch of considerations in mind: selling their things second hand or even giving away is what people also have been doing already. In case of selling they get back money, with IKEA they'll get back vouchers, limited to 50%.
I think you underestimate two things here: (1) people would much rather go to IKEA to return an item than to sell on craigslist, and (2) people would trust IKEA much more when buying a refurbished item, rather than buying used from craigslist. The fact that it is IKEA itself that is doing this and making it easier for consumers can drastically increase both the pool of items that are being re-used, and the amount of people that will consider buying used items.
> To state the obvious: that is not at all what this is about and as far as I can tell I also never gave that impression in my comment. It's about teaching people about the value of durability, i.e. convincing people they do not have to buy a new bed or desk every x years. Now how do you achive that? I honestly don't know for sure. But seeing that previous generations had no (or much less) problems with that, it means it's something which is teacheable, so I'd start with that. As a push back agains consumerism, educate the young ones and explain them there are cases where it is possible to buy one thing for a lifetime (or so), that there is nothing wrong with buying second had goods, etc.
The previous generations had a very different life. Fewer people were moving across the country, and fewer people were moving to different continents. People would stay in one place and work for the same company for decades. This is simply not the reality of today. Many people do not stay in the same place for more than a few years, and the distances they are moving are larger than ever before.
Furniture has adapted to this new reality, and unless that reality changes again, it will not go back to the way it used to be. When you move across country it is impractical to take furniture along with you. Worse, it is straight up bad for the environment. Renting a truck and driving 3000 miles to lug around a table, a bed and a desk is a horrible idea from an environmentalist point of view. It is much better to avoid that transportation cost and give away your furniture locally for re-use, and get somebody else's furniture at your destination. This is exactly what IKEA is trying to accomplish here.
I think you underestimate two things here: (1) people would much rather go to IKEA to return an item than to sell on craigslist, and (2) people would trust IKEA much more when buying a refurbished item, rather than buying used from craigslist. The fact that it is IKEA itself that is doing this and making it easier for consumers can drastically increase both the pool of items that are being re-used, and the amount of people that will consider buying used items.
> To state the obvious: that is not at all what this is about and as far as I can tell I also never gave that impression in my comment. It's about teaching people about the value of durability, i.e. convincing people they do not have to buy a new bed or desk every x years. Now how do you achive that? I honestly don't know for sure. But seeing that previous generations had no (or much less) problems with that, it means it's something which is teacheable, so I'd start with that. As a push back agains consumerism, educate the young ones and explain them there are cases where it is possible to buy one thing for a lifetime (or so), that there is nothing wrong with buying second had goods, etc.
The previous generations had a very different life. Fewer people were moving across the country, and fewer people were moving to different continents. People would stay in one place and work for the same company for decades. This is simply not the reality of today. Many people do not stay in the same place for more than a few years, and the distances they are moving are larger than ever before.
Furniture has adapted to this new reality, and unless that reality changes again, it will not go back to the way it used to be. When you move across country it is impractical to take furniture along with you. Worse, it is straight up bad for the environment. Renting a truck and driving 3000 miles to lug around a table, a bed and a desk is a horrible idea from an environmentalist point of view. It is much better to avoid that transportation cost and give away your furniture locally for re-use, and get somebody else's furniture at your destination. This is exactly what IKEA is trying to accomplish here.
IKEAs biggest competitor is used IKEA. The downside of selling an incredibly amount of identical items is the eventual saturation of the market.
I think it's a brilliant move to ensure both the seller and the buyer of the furniture now have to stop by IKEA, the promised land of impulse buys. And paying for the furniture in IKEA vouchers means the real re-purchase cost for IKEA is even lower.
I think it's a brilliant move to ensure both the seller and the buyer of the furniture now have to stop by IKEA, the promised land of impulse buys. And paying for the furniture in IKEA vouchers means the real re-purchase cost for IKEA is even lower.
> IKEAs biggest competitor is used IKEA.
How is that even possible? Ikea furniture is particle board and frequently doesn't survive being moved a single time.
How is that even possible? Ikea furniture is particle board and frequently doesn't survive being moved a single time.
You need to take it slow, with though and gently. It always survives for me, in Germany. Maybe they are selling worse stuff in the US,or you're handling it quickly, roughly and impatiently so it gets damaged while disassembling, even unknowingly.
The cupboards they sell here are -very- poor quality. The laminated chipboard rarely lasts more than 5 years. Ive never seen it survive two moves.
I would be guessing, but the difference between countries may be the purchasing habits. Most german houses may already have better/built in X (or just sufficient other types), maybe most US houses do not have X.
I would be guessing, but the difference between countries may be the purchasing habits. Most german houses may already have better/built in X (or just sufficient other types), maybe most US houses do not have X.
People have vastly different definitions of "very poor quality". It all depends on your expectations. If you expect the same quality as expensive robust solid furniture, you will be disappointed. But if you want that type, you'll need to pay for it.
There are also people who endlessly complain how uncomfortable it is to fly with low-cost airlines like Ryanair, but you can bet they will pick the cheapest low-cost flight for their next trip as well and complain again. If you want comfort you'll have to pay for it. Otherwise, you get what you pay for. It's still perfectly good for its function. Perhaps it gets a bit crooked or it's kind of moving and warping when you open it, but whatever. It holds my clothes and books just fine. If you want to, you can add further metal parts to strengthen the frame as well.
There are also people who endlessly complain how uncomfortable it is to fly with low-cost airlines like Ryanair, but you can bet they will pick the cheapest low-cost flight for their next trip as well and complain again. If you want comfort you'll have to pay for it. Otherwise, you get what you pay for. It's still perfectly good for its function. Perhaps it gets a bit crooked or it's kind of moving and warping when you open it, but whatever. It holds my clothes and books just fine. If you want to, you can add further metal parts to strengthen the frame as well.
> It all depends on your expectations.
This is exactly it. If you've experienced better, you'll compare it to known experiences regardless of cost.
> Perhaps it gets a bit crooked or it's kind of moving and > warping when you open it, but whatever. It holds my clothes > and books just fine. If you want to, you can add further > metal parts to strengthen the frame as well.
Here in lies the problem, you simply can't have the risk of things 'falling over' when you got kids or people with motor skill issues, which I think is why these expectations exist for those with children.
I've been 3d printing all my reinforcements for furniture which seems to solve most problems.
This is exactly it. If you've experienced better, you'll compare it to known experiences regardless of cost.
> Perhaps it gets a bit crooked or it's kind of moving and > warping when you open it, but whatever. It holds my clothes > and books just fine. If you want to, you can add further > metal parts to strengthen the frame as well.
Here in lies the problem, you simply can't have the risk of things 'falling over' when you got kids or people with motor skill issues, which I think is why these expectations exist for those with children.
I've been 3d printing all my reinforcements for furniture which seems to solve most problems.
I’ve done it, up and down a few different staircases and across the country in a container.
Tighten a few screws and the cabinets and drawers seem to work year after year.
Tighten a few screws and the cabinets and drawers seem to work year after year.
I've moved particle board furniture many times: Wear and tear does more damage. I've also completely ruined things that aren't particle board. Moving sometimes ruins things.
That's a fairly recent development. IKEA still has a fair bit of pretty solid furniture, and much of their older stuff will last for decades.
The myth of all "new" IKEA things being shit is as old as I remember. People said the same thing 20 years ago and when I asked my parents they told me people also said it 40 years ago. Each time IKEA changes to a different production method the old "shit" gets magically elevated to 'very good and far better than their new things'. If that trend was real most new IKEA furniture should fall apart before you assemble it.
Even the newest IKEA furniture survives moves just fine. We have been selling and buying used IKEA furniture on an Austrian second hand market for the last 5 years and generally no issues. Also the things that often break you can get fixed for free at the store if needed.
I think the idea that IKEA furniture does not last is a result of IKEA being very transparent about how the furniture is made.
I think the idea that IKEA furniture does not last is a result of IKEA being very transparent about how the furniture is made.
I think that's smart of IKEA if they can get the economics to work, but they might be way late to this game.
We just "upgraded" our house with a bunch of second-hand IKEA furniture, buying their typical drawers and bookcases for $20 each using Facebook marketplace.
Considering that buying a new piece would be $200, and a used one is $20 and already assembled, and I had to drive 1 mile down the road to pick it up, it was a win.
Now say I am a seller though. I have a bookcase for 200, and it is gently used so I'd get 40% credit back. That's $80, which is of course better than 20, but it would require me loading the fully assembled case into the car (on top of the car?) and driving it to Ikea, all for an additional 60 bucks gain. If I have the car, and able to move it, and have the time, 60/hour is still a good "income" for a lot of people. But boy that's a lot of work for a one time benefit, and most Ikea pieces that can be car-transported when assembled don't even cost 200 bucks.
It's hard to imagine a lot of people going through the trouble, when they can just sell it for a few bucks to a neighbor and forget it.
On the other hand, if you get UHAL, grab 10 bookshelves, pickup and deliver them all to IKEA on the same day, now that's $500 in profit. Someone could make a good side hustle out of it.
Anyway, we shall see.
We just "upgraded" our house with a bunch of second-hand IKEA furniture, buying their typical drawers and bookcases for $20 each using Facebook marketplace.
Considering that buying a new piece would be $200, and a used one is $20 and already assembled, and I had to drive 1 mile down the road to pick it up, it was a win.
Now say I am a seller though. I have a bookcase for 200, and it is gently used so I'd get 40% credit back. That's $80, which is of course better than 20, but it would require me loading the fully assembled case into the car (on top of the car?) and driving it to Ikea, all for an additional 60 bucks gain. If I have the car, and able to move it, and have the time, 60/hour is still a good "income" for a lot of people. But boy that's a lot of work for a one time benefit, and most Ikea pieces that can be car-transported when assembled don't even cost 200 bucks.
It's hard to imagine a lot of people going through the trouble, when they can just sell it for a few bucks to a neighbor and forget it.
On the other hand, if you get UHAL, grab 10 bookshelves, pickup and deliver them all to IKEA on the same day, now that's $500 in profit. Someone could make a good side hustle out of it.
Anyway, we shall see.
I'd reassemble them in the parking lot for that kind of savings, tbh. I've moved so much IKEA furniture that I can dis- and re-assemble most pieces in a few minutes.
This is part of the IKEA push towards a circular economy. There was another article specifically about that at Fast Company earlier this year: https://www.fastcompany.com/90512150/can-the-furniture-indus...
Something about renting furniture doesn't sit right with me (pun intended). I'd much prefer to be able to sell it back for a fraction of the original cost than to have to pay a monthly fee for my table.
It's the idea that you pay your whole life for a bunch of things, but don't own any of them. If you lose your income, you lose your car, your computer, your software, your furniture etc.
People rent furnished apartments (indeed airbnb has offers where you rent by the month). Apparently it makes financial sense for some people, e.g. digital nomads.
A guy I know says he just packs his belongings into his SUV and he's free to move from airbnb to airbnb, negotiating a good price for them (e.g. staying in summer vacation apartments during winter time).
A guy I know says he just packs his belongings into his SUV and he's free to move from airbnb to airbnb, negotiating a good price for them (e.g. staying in summer vacation apartments during winter time).
Also, have you seen any international homefinding shows on cable? AFAIK in some South American countries buying furnished houses and flats is a common practice. Presumably there is judgment involved in knowing what to upgrade before going on market, but this is also true of other upgrade tradeoffs such as with kitchens and bathrooms.
As someone in an American apartment building; I am saddened by the crap thrown into our dumpster; especially with Craigslist and Goodwill. I regularly save "decent" pieces from the dumpster to take to Goodwill. I have an unbroken, framed, mirror in that pile now.
IKEA should make it easy to buy replacement parts for their furniture. Currently even for models still in sale it is usually impossible to get parts. You can go to an IKEA store 'used' section, if they happen to have this model returned by some customer, they will sell you parts, but most likely you will return empty-handed.
Recycling large furniture, such as sofas, just because they have one tiny part responsible for folding broken, is not really an eco friendly way to go.
Recycling large furniture, such as sofas, just because they have one tiny part responsible for folding broken, is not really an eco friendly way to go.
I don't know if they have every single part, but some IKEAs have vending machines with spares of at least the common parts.
> Recycling large furniture, such as sofas, just because they have one tiny part responsible for folding broken is not really a eco friendly way to go.
How is that any different for large furniture from larger vendors like Macys?
How is that any different for large furniture from larger vendors like Macys?
Not sure about Macys, it doesn't operate in my country, but smaller furniture makers commonly use off-the-shelf mechanisms. For example, there are a couple popular spring mechanism for folding sofas, so if your sofa breaks, you can easily buy a replacement even if the furniture manufacturer is already out of business. IKEA has all these mechanisms custom.
While not necessarily a store like Macy's themselves, I know I've reached out to manufacturers when I needed a replacement handle or foot that was lost or broken. Heck, often right inside the package you'll see a piece of paper that says "STOP! Do not return to the store! Call us"
Large vendors like Macys generally sell furniture which can be moved or disassembled without breaking said furniture.
IKEAs around here will give you any spare bolts, screws etc.
It's nice they offer screws and washers. I've definitely taken them up on that. I'm pretty sure the parent is referring to parts. When moving a couch one time I had to remove the feet to fit it through a doorway and lost one of them. It was years ago, so I don't remember the details, but I ended up stacking some 2x4 to prop it up because I was unable to get a replacement.
I have 19 Ivar units, with about 4 - 6 shelves each that have lasted for years (15 in a prior location, 6 here). They are in good shape, show no sign of bowing / slumping. They are made from recycled wood that has been glued to make the uprights and shelves. If you are willing to "toss the pile" you can find shelves that are free of major knots and will look nice.
My workbench is a drop leaf table (only drops on one end h that was designed for a kitchen table. Solid as a rock and solid pine.
My only regret is not buying more of the wide drawers that were available in the early 2000'. It's hard to find ones that fit exactly in the Ivar units.
My workbench is a drop leaf table (only drops on one end h that was designed for a kitchen table. Solid as a rock and solid pine.
My only regret is not buying more of the wide drawers that were available in the early 2000'. It's hard to find ones that fit exactly in the Ivar units.
Buy wood or metal pieces if you want IKEA purchases to last. I appreciate how IKEA iterates and value engineers the hell out of their products. Though ultimately if they care about sustainability, they need to settle on a series of perennial designs and have a viable parts system to support repairs.
I get a little mad every time I ear about IKEA environment concerns.
Traditionally made furniture could last for hundred years, finished with beeswax linseed oil, or something similar. You can easily sand and reapply finish, you can easily reglue a broken part. And when everything goes wrong with an old piece of furniture... you've got firewood.
IKEA furniture is built to last just enought time, it's full of composite materials that for sure are really hard to recycle.
This is the same BS speach as Apple not providing a charger.
If you want to provide greener solutions, provide things that can last longer, are easy repairable and upgradable. It will hurt your profits because you won't be able to shove as many products down the consumers throats, but that's the way it has to be.
IKEA furniture is built to last just enought time, it's full of composite materials that for sure are really hard to recycle.
This is the same BS speach as Apple not providing a charger.
If you want to provide greener solutions, provide things that can last longer, are easy repairable and upgradable. It will hurt your profits because you won't be able to shove as many products down the consumers throats, but that's the way it has to be.
I wish the companies that sold "mattresses by mail" would have a program to recycle your previous mattress. Our town is seeing an uptick in abandoned/dumped mattresses, and the theory is it's from the internet mattress business.
They should then return them - fully assembled - to the returns desk where they will be checked and the final value agreed.
Fully assembled? Will they be ok with me disassembling the furniture for transport and then assembling it in front of the return desk?
Fully assembled? Will they be ok with me disassembling the furniture for transport and then assembling it in front of the return desk?
Hope you kept those instructions ;)
This reminds me moves in the fast fashion business were you can dispose your clothes and receive vouchers. The consumer feels good because he is caring for the environment and the store can keep selling more stuff.
When I moved in with my GF, I wanted to get rid of my IKEA furniture (table&chairs, couple of chests of drawers, etc) so I called a place that takes furniture donations, cleans it up and gives it to needy families.
When they heard it was IKEA the guy said it was more trouble than it was worth for them because they end up throwing it out. When I said "no problem, I'll break it up for kindling for my dad" he immediately said, "Wait! It's wood! Yeah, we'll happily take that."
When they heard it was IKEA the guy said it was more trouble than it was worth for them because they end up throwing it out. When I said "no problem, I'll break it up for kindling for my dad" he immediately said, "Wait! It's wood! Yeah, we'll happily take that."
There is a time and place for cheap/IKEA furniture (keep in mind that IKEA does actually sell some genuinely nice pieces, but they're best known for their budget options).
For example, not everyone can afford more expensive furniture or are unable to wait for furniture to become available on the secondary markets (e.g. Craigslist, yard sales, finding stuff on the side of the road, etc.).
It's a mistake to think that buying pricey/"longer lasting" furniture is _always_ the right move.
For example, not everyone can afford more expensive furniture or are unable to wait for furniture to become available on the secondary markets (e.g. Craigslist, yard sales, finding stuff on the side of the road, etc.).
It's a mistake to think that buying pricey/"longer lasting" furniture is _always_ the right move.
IKEA has to be one of the worst companies, their furniture doesn't meet the stability requirements and there have been myriad of cases where IKEA furniture crushed a child to death. On top of that IKEA has been known to buy ilegal wood from reservations n Romania and other parts of the world. There's an episode of Netflix's "Broken" that goes more into detail. Fuck IKEA
I agree that IKEA has done a lot of wrong, but calling them one of the worst companies is a bit much. Are you comparing their wrongs to stuff like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster and finding them equal or worse?
Buy vintage. Solid wood cores, from the 50s-70s. That’s as green as you’re gonna get.
Out of all the furniture I've purchased, solid vintage stuff from thrift stores are both top in quality and prices
The thing about IKEA stuff is that even if they're made of "cardboard", they still fit perfectly well with more expensive hardwood or design pieces.
Other cheapo brands LOOK cheap, IKEA doesn't.
Other cheapo brands LOOK cheap, IKEA doesn't.
I used to buy a lot of Ikea furniture (and take a lot of free Ikea furniture that ends up on curbs in big cities around moving season).
Then I learned how much cheaper, modular, and more robust your furniture can be if you invest in some hand tools and built it yourself. You have a higher initial outlay, but the results last longer, can be repaired much easier, as well as broken down and repurposed. Most furniture can be assembled with a cheap hand saw and chisels, or if you're lazy, skilsaw, drill, drill bit set, and screws.
I don't know that i'll ever buy a piece of furniture again unless it's second-hand and deeply discounted. There's so much good shit out there already.
Then I learned how much cheaper, modular, and more robust your furniture can be if you invest in some hand tools and built it yourself. You have a higher initial outlay, but the results last longer, can be repaired much easier, as well as broken down and repurposed. Most furniture can be assembled with a cheap hand saw and chisels, or if you're lazy, skilsaw, drill, drill bit set, and screws.
I don't know that i'll ever buy a piece of furniture again unless it's second-hand and deeply discounted. There's so much good shit out there already.
Brilliant! My dream along the same lines would be for Amazon to buy back boxes and packing material.
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If only PAX wardrobes were possible to move.
imagine the line you'd have to wait in to do the returns. no thanks.
At one level down, this is a fundamental problem with Capitalism itself.
It expects companies to grow forever, and thus they have to come up with ways to reduce the working life of stuff they make.
Imagine if we made furniture with mostly good, strong metal. They would last lifetimes, but Ikea, as a company would probably stagnate after a while.
I shop a lot at Ikea too, but usually take care to purchase their stuff that's made with metal. They make a lot of those and those are very durable, if not a bit costly (in India)
It expects companies to grow forever, and thus they have to come up with ways to reduce the working life of stuff they make.
Imagine if we made furniture with mostly good, strong metal. They would last lifetimes, but Ikea, as a company would probably stagnate after a while.
I shop a lot at Ikea too, but usually take care to purchase their stuff that's made with metal. They make a lot of those and those are very durable, if not a bit costly (in India)
I bought a metal bed frame from IKEA 10 years ago, it has been with me trough seven moves across North America. Works has new and only needs 8 screws.
The flip side to that idea is that consumers choose to buy this limited lifespan furniture. IKEA isn't tricking people in an effort to grow forever; they are just producing what people want.
Should we mount it backwards or oddly and then provide disassemble instructions?
Here is an even better idea: Stop making poor quality products with a low lifespan. Furniture used to be airlooms not trash.
Have you ever tried to move Ikea furniture? It falls apart so easily. Recycling makes sense if there's a market for broken particle board, because that is what will arrive.
This only makes sense if you have a total disregard for the ecological effect of such a greed oriented consoomer model. This is about selling more products, there by impacting the environment more than selling less, better quality products.
anecdotal: multiple times (the same item moving 2-3 times), with 100% success.
Almost damaged a joining part once, but that was our own fault for not completely disassembling out of laziness.
Almost damaged a joining part once, but that was our own fault for not completely disassembling out of laziness.
I think these tips can go a long way:
- use proper tools instead of the cheap tools that come with the product
- if you use a power tool on a screw, only use it for 95% of the task. finish the job with a hand-tool or you will do damage.
- do not over-tighten things which screw into wood
- metal into metal? LOCTITE.
- you're really not going to disassemble that coffee table or small check of draws, so just use a bit of wood glue
The great think about most IKEA furniture (or more generally, wood furniture) is that you can modify/fix it when it breaks. Good luck fixing those broken welds on your metal chairs!
(1): Okay so my Lack coffee table fell apart, but it's also ~£5. I repaired it with wood-glue and masking tape, good as new, then gave it away for free on FreeCycle.