The Roblox Microverse(stratechery.com)
stratechery.com
The Roblox Microverse
https://stratechery.com/2021/the-roblox-microverse/
209 comments
> I made a hard "no Robux" rule
I had that to start with, but now he's older and using the platform to interact with his friends (especially during lockdown), we have relented and now use Robux as incentives for doing chores etc.
I had that to start with, but now he's older and using the platform to interact with his friends (especially during lockdown), we have relented and now use Robux as incentives for doing chores etc.
Out of curiosity (I have 2 that are into it) what did they 'get' by you relenting and allowing them to spend Robux? Is it just cosmetics or are there certain games/modes/experiences that are only available if you pay?
Every Roblox game is different, the developer is free to monetize their world in any way they want to..
It could be skins or abilities or anything else that is part of the world.
It could be skins or abilities or anything else that is part of the world.
Not the OP but my kids (8,9) spend allowance on robux. Mostly it lets them build a big house for their friends to come over (in game) and play with them. They pair Roblox with video chat as their online hangout.
There are per game purchases (thousands of games) and system wide cosmetic purchases.
Some of it is relatively benign cosmetic items for your avatar, like Fortnite. There is definitely a stigma associated with having "bacon hair" which is the default. Or the ability to play on a server with just your friends.
Other times it is a shortcut to stuff that you could get by grinding. $5 gets you twice the XP (experience points) so you can unlock new weapons, levels, etc. Individual games sometimes take this to extremes, I once calculated I would have to play an hour a day for a week to get an item I could unlock for a buck.
The worst ones (Epic Mini-Games, I'm looking at you!) are the ones where you can outright pay to win by breaking the game mechanics. Turn yourself invisible, big honking sword that you can't earn, double your chances of being selected for something special.
For the most part the games are truly free to play. You can play in all the modes that are available to paying customers.
Other times it is a shortcut to stuff that you could get by grinding. $5 gets you twice the XP (experience points) so you can unlock new weapons, levels, etc. Individual games sometimes take this to extremes, I once calculated I would have to play an hour a day for a week to get an item I could unlock for a buck.
The worst ones (Epic Mini-Games, I'm looking at you!) are the ones where you can outright pay to win by breaking the game mechanics. Turn yourself invisible, big honking sword that you can't earn, double your chances of being selected for something special.
For the most part the games are truly free to play. You can play in all the modes that are available to paying customers.
There are some free hairs available:
https://www.roblox.com/catalog?Category=11&Subcategory=20&Cu...
https://www.roblox.com/catalog?Category=4&Subcategory=37&Cur...
Also you can just go bald for a LEGO-like look, which has always been my favorite.
https://www.roblox.com/catalog?Category=11&Subcategory=20&Cu...
https://www.roblox.com/catalog?Category=4&Subcategory=37&Cur...
Also you can just go bald for a LEGO-like look, which has always been my favorite.
You can also pay for a private server too with robux. My kids earn robux if they do chores or read a book etc... Right now it is a good positive reinforcement reward system.
Stigma? For not spending money? For me that's an instant cancel of the account and introduce my kid to a better class of friendsm
I'm over 40 and stigma for not spending money was also a thing when I was a kid. I still remember discussions about who had the trendiest school backpack. I'm not saying that it's a good thing, just noticing that it would still be there even if you took a "no videogames" stance.
This may shock you, but kids do exactly the same kind of thing in regards to clothes, food, and even inanities like brands of pens and pencils.
Hell, when it comes to social signalling via "stuff" much of society does this.
Doesn't make it right though.
Doesn't make it right though.
But I'd say an instant canceling of your child's account for a frequent societal phenomenon is a bit overdramatic, even if it's not right.
I'd even go so far as to say it is the incorrect response.
Educate your kid as to what happened and what they can do about it then let your kid figure out how they want to respond.
If they are going to come across it for the rest of their life they might as well know how to deal with it.
Educate your kid as to what happened and what they can do about it then let your kid figure out how they want to respond.
If they are going to come across it for the rest of their life they might as well know how to deal with it.
Tbh I'm not 100% sure, but I think a bit of both. Given that for quite some time it was his primary means of communication with some of his friends, it felt unnecessarily restrictive not to let him join in fully with what they were up to.
Obviously any major expense was out of the question and he knows that, but seeing as they "run around" their Roblox worlds just like they might run around a playground or wood, it felt a fair compromise. And he learns about having to work for a reward in the process.
ed: I should say I believe there are public groups on Roblox that you have to pay Robux to join. He's not allowed that.
Obviously any major expense was out of the question and he knows that, but seeing as they "run around" their Roblox worlds just like they might run around a playground or wood, it felt a fair compromise. And he learns about having to work for a reward in the process.
ed: I should say I believe there are public groups on Roblox that you have to pay Robux to join. He's not allowed that.
I had some fun with my son (age 7) writing python to beat one of the "clicking" games. I wrote the code but he thought my clicking app was like magic. https://automatetheboringstuff.com/chapter18/
Does that work on Chromebook?
Seems like you'd have to blaze a trail if it did - "The pyautogui module can send virtual keypresses and mouse clicks to Windows, OS X, and Linux. Depending on which operating system you’re using, you may have to install some other modules (called dependencies) before you can install PyAutoGUI."
Not disagreeing with what you did there. But I gave my kids Robux and talked with them about what they wanted to spend it on and let them learn if it was worth it or not (something persistent like an avatar item or some in game item). It was good for them but honestly they spent a couple of bucks each and stopped asking and just keep looking for games that are fun.
> I feel that at least 7 out of 10 times I check on them, they're doing a game that involves creation, economics, collaboration, and often multiple of those.
Could you recommend a few titles that are worth checking out?
Could you recommend a few titles that are worth checking out?
I had the same policy but now I just let them spend their allowance money on it if they want to. As long as it’s their money.
I'm fairly sure you're aware that more than 9 out of 10 kids would find Robux-free Roblox immensely more appealing than whatever economic simulations your preternaturally moderate children are taken with.
Ok I'm not sure what "preternaturally" means, but yes I agree that Robux are an awful scam and Roblox would be better without them. That said I'm also not nuts and I realize that Roblox would likely not exist without them.
I'm advocating for picking all the VC-funded (and user-generated) freebies off the platform and giving nothing back. It's like using YouTube with an ad blocker.
That said, I'm not sure I parsed your comment right, so just to clarify: when I say "economic" I mean stuff like "Pizza Tycoon" where you run a restaurant and need to buy stuff with fake money to get more customers etc etc. That's not Robux money, that's 100% in-game fake money that you earn by selling pizzas. Even the better clickers have this dynamic, where you click to get some kinds of points and then you can use the points to buy/build stuff that auto-generates clicks etc. It's not unlike the economies in Starcraft (yeah I'm old) and the likes.
I'm advocating for picking all the VC-funded (and user-generated) freebies off the platform and giving nothing back. It's like using YouTube with an ad blocker.
That said, I'm not sure I parsed your comment right, so just to clarify: when I say "economic" I mean stuff like "Pizza Tycoon" where you run a restaurant and need to buy stuff with fake money to get more customers etc etc. That's not Robux money, that's 100% in-game fake money that you earn by selling pizzas. Even the better clickers have this dynamic, where you click to get some kinds of points and then you can use the points to buy/build stuff that auto-generates clicks etc. It's not unlike the economies in Starcraft (yeah I'm old) and the likes.
> I'm not sure I parsed your comment right
My fault. Resummarizing, you shouldn't take your kids finding "Pizza Tycoon" competitive or even preferable to Roblox (with or without Robux power assists) as applicable to the general population.
My fault. Resummarizing, you shouldn't take your kids finding "Pizza Tycoon" competitive or even preferable to Roblox (with or without Robux power assists) as applicable to the general population.
Pizza Tycoon is a game in Roblox, how could my kids find it preferable to Roblox? Sorry, I still don't understand what you mean.
I'm sharing something that worked for us, which seems relevant when the thread is full of parents complaining about how Roblox is full of "pay to win" scams. I did not run a scientific study, my sample size is 2. Why are you even assuming that I think my anecdote is generally applicable? I suggested no such thing.
I'm sharing something that worked for us, which seems relevant when the thread is full of parents complaining about how Roblox is full of "pay to win" scams. I did not run a scientific study, my sample size is 2. Why are you even assuming that I think my anecdote is generally applicable? I suggested no such thing.
I could have written all of your comments in this chain myself and am similarly confused. Sample size +1.
jimmyvalmer has no idea what he’s talking about. Probably never even tried Roblox. Just ignore him.
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Roblox is not a game as such, it's a platform for user generated games. I'm not sure why you have such a strong opinion on this if you don't even know what it is
Interesting. I just talked to the experts - my 7 year old and 9 year old. They play Roblox sitting side by side on the couch, right beside me. They spend $0 and I just asked them, are you looking to buy anything, and they said "No" you don't need to, but they do know a kid who has spent $100 and is addicted to it (their words, not mine...could be exagerated).
Then again, the 9 year old also has a steam account, and they buy all their games from their $5/week allowance. It's their choice. We do not control what they spend money on.
They made a couple of bad purchased, and cried, and regretted it, but it taught them to be careful. So I guess, you can say, there are ways to letting kids play Roblox and controlling their spending.
And to be fair, it really depends on the kid. Some resist buying impulsively better than others. Also, as an aside, they try to add kids that they know in real life.
They get their video time from 6:15pm until 7:15pm on weekdays. They pick their video time. Whether watching Planet Earth, Youtube, Steam, Roblox, it doesn't matter. BUT, they get 1 hour. Essentially we are trying to give them power of choice, and ability to fail. It's not perfect, but...I guess we're just learning as we go along.
Then again, the 9 year old also has a steam account, and they buy all their games from their $5/week allowance. It's their choice. We do not control what they spend money on.
They made a couple of bad purchased, and cried, and regretted it, but it taught them to be careful. So I guess, you can say, there are ways to letting kids play Roblox and controlling their spending.
And to be fair, it really depends on the kid. Some resist buying impulsively better than others. Also, as an aside, they try to add kids that they know in real life.
They get their video time from 6:15pm until 7:15pm on weekdays. They pick their video time. Whether watching Planet Earth, Youtube, Steam, Roblox, it doesn't matter. BUT, they get 1 hour. Essentially we are trying to give them power of choice, and ability to fail. It's not perfect, but...I guess we're just learning as we go along.
I've noticed the $0 thing too, plus the enormous amounts of "stolen" IP in the games - assets, music, entire games...
The remixing makes it fun. There is a lot of creativity inside roblox and extends into youtube too.
Isn't "playing roblox" like "playing iPhone"? It's not a game, it's a whole platform/ecosystem.
> It's not a game, it's a whole platform/ecosystem.
It is and it isn't, that's one of the points the linked article is trying to make, yes, it's an ecosystem but, at the same time, it's highly consistent because many aspects such as assets/mechanics/moderation/currency etc. are consistent across all games. In fact they are so consistent that you can immediately identify a game as being a "Roblox game" in the same way that Skyblock or Bed Wars[1] are clearly "Minecraft games" (I made this comparison because most people think of Minecraft as a single game, not as an ecosystem).
[1] In case you don't know what those are, they are "minigames" that run on modified Minecraft servers, many features of "vanilla Minecraft" are retained but the game mechanics are modified heavily, here is a link with more info: https://hypixel.net/play/#games
It is and it isn't, that's one of the points the linked article is trying to make, yes, it's an ecosystem but, at the same time, it's highly consistent because many aspects such as assets/mechanics/moderation/currency etc. are consistent across all games. In fact they are so consistent that you can immediately identify a game as being a "Roblox game" in the same way that Skyblock or Bed Wars[1] are clearly "Minecraft games" (I made this comparison because most people think of Minecraft as a single game, not as an ecosystem).
[1] In case you don't know what those are, they are "minigames" that run on modified Minecraft servers, many features of "vanilla Minecraft" are retained but the game mechanics are modified heavily, here is a link with more info: https://hypixel.net/play/#games
True. They try different games. I tried asking them what they would recommend to other kids, but they said Arsenal, sports games, and Natural Disaster...they were not helpful!
Either way, they only play a few times a week, so maybe 3 hours a week. They usually play other stuff as well.
Either way, they only play a few times a week, so maybe 3 hours a week. They usually play other stuff as well.
I used to push back had on my kids wanting to buy hats, pets, etc in Roblox. Seemed like a waste of money and I hate microtransactions.
Then I realized that this is literally the only game they play, and it's free. Compare that to me at that age, buying Nintendo games for $50 a pop, why am I hesitant to support these creators with a $2 hat?
I still limit purchases just for general personal finance lessons, but otherwise let them spend money here like they would on actual paid games.
Then I realized that this is literally the only game they play, and it's free. Compare that to me at that age, buying Nintendo games for $50 a pop, why am I hesitant to support these creators with a $2 hat?
I still limit purchases just for general personal finance lessons, but otherwise let them spend money here like they would on actual paid games.
Because it starts with a $2 hat, but quickly escalates into $2 hats 3x a day or even more expensive perks. Once you give into a kid about making purchases, it's a much harder fight to say no the next time.
These games are designed on emotional responses in kid's brains just as much as FB's algo for its feed is.
These games are designed on emotional responses in kid's brains just as much as FB's algo for its feed is.
Once you give a mouse a cookie...
Thus his comment on "limiting purchases for finance lessons". Give them a budget, let them do what they want with it, teach them that impulses are controllable and that there are tradeoffs, etc.
This is a trend I've been noticing, which doesn't seem very surprising when written out. Parents who try to approve every purchase end up in a never ending onslaught of requests compared to parents who simply give their kids money and let them spend it however.
Makes me think of collectible card games. If I hadn't spent my own pocket money as a kid on MTG, Star Trek CCG and Pokemon, there's no way in hell I would let my kid buy into an obvious scam CCGs are. But I did spend money on them and enjoyed it, so I'm not so sure now.
Why do you think it's an "obvious scam"? I played MtG for many years. I spent money, sure, but nothing obsessive and I got a lot of enjoyment out of it: the game is interesting and always changing, I went to tournaments, met people, and then there was the economy: trade, trying to predict cards whose price would go up, etc. I remember doing arbitrage at some point when a card appeared in a preconstructed deck for €X and was selling for like €X+5 (it didn't last much, of course). I also learned some foreign languages because I had cards in various languages. I think it was money well spent, and I have no doubt it would be a good experience for my kid as well.
I still have the cards, they have a resale value. More than I spent on the game, as some have become difficult to find. Of course, this could change (I don't really think they'll become worthless because MtG is not just any CCG, it's quite iconic due to its history, but it could happen), but at the very least they are a physical item that remains there and can be played with. When my son grows, he will probably enjoy them, regardless of their value.
Loot boxes for games that give you a virtual item that you can't even sell or gift and will probably be worthless in 4 years when the server closes... now that's a scam, unless in exceptional cases (small one-time purchase to support devs, etc.). I don't spend money on that and I wouldn't let my kid either.
I still have the cards, they have a resale value. More than I spent on the game, as some have become difficult to find. Of course, this could change (I don't really think they'll become worthless because MtG is not just any CCG, it's quite iconic due to its history, but it could happen), but at the very least they are a physical item that remains there and can be played with. When my son grows, he will probably enjoy them, regardless of their value.
Loot boxes for games that give you a virtual item that you can't even sell or gift and will probably be worthless in 4 years when the server closes... now that's a scam, unless in exceptional cases (small one-time purchase to support devs, etc.). I don't spend money on that and I wouldn't let my kid either.
I too, played Mtg, starting at 3rd edition, playing through fallen empires. I have some of them still, but nothing very valuable.
The thing missing from these virtual items are a framework to ensure they can actually carry value.
And that could be NFTs or something similar. It makes sense to me, even if some of the “valuable” assets so far do not.
But then again what does my almost-tournament winning goblin grenade deck mean to a roblox player now? Presumably, little.
The thing missing from these virtual items are a framework to ensure they can actually carry value.
And that could be NFTs or something similar. It makes sense to me, even if some of the “valuable” assets so far do not.
But then again what does my almost-tournament winning goblin grenade deck mean to a roblox player now? Presumably, little.
We had an unfulfillable mania to complete our collection (which we now know is was VERY difficult/expensive due those 1-2-5 cards that were super rare). Supporting the developers with a couple of dollars didn't hurt anyone. As long as the kids won't try to "complete the collection of all hats). That would teach them to control their spending, understand that they can't just 'buy what they see' (as some young adults get to do on their first paychecks), and chores-chores-chores!
I spent a fair amount of money on MTG, but it gave me lots of fond memories. I think I would encourage future children of mine to play it, in the unlikely event it hasn’t become online-only by then.
It's also kind of cool because a lot of the games are created by other kids. Roblox Studio is fun to poke around in and has gotten my 8 year old very interested in programming and to an extent, entrepreneurship.
I'm building a roblox game with my kids. It's slow going because now that they are playing more minecraft and also minecraft inside roblox.
In roblox one plays build a boat and the like. We had a hard time with adopt me but that fad seems to have faded thankfully. They certainly learnt about scams the hard way.
I think the reason they like minecraft is because of the crafting table. They have all the rules memorized and they talk about it with kids in their classes online.
In roblox one plays build a boat and the like. We had a hard time with adopt me but that fad seems to have faded thankfully. They certainly learnt about scams the hard way.
I think the reason they like minecraft is because of the crafting table. They have all the rules memorized and they talk about it with kids in their classes online.
My 8 and 10 year olds give out their Roblox user names to friends. Most recently at a softball tournament, my little short stop traded names with a few players that she befriended on other teams.
I'm not sure if there is any grand meaning to this, I just thought I'd share a thing I noticed.
I'm not sure if there is any grand meaning to this, I just thought I'd share a thing I noticed.
All I can say is roblox banned in our home network: the whole user experience is targeted to make children judge each other using wrong incentives and extort money from parents.
On the other hand I have no problems paying children for games with honorable practices of one time purchase or reasonable subscriptions (which usually end in a month in any case when children get bored)
On the other hand I have no problems paying children for games with honorable practices of one time purchase or reasonable subscriptions (which usually end in a month in any case when children get bored)
My kids haven't asked to spend a penny, and the play I overhear seems to be largely collaborative - "come visit my theme park and see this cool rollercoaster".
My child is literally making a roblox game right now. I just showed him lua. He is 10. Roblox is a huge gateway into programming. He started on scratch, and now roblox. Next generation of programmers will have learned programming using roblox as kids. I'm impressed with their IDE.
Humblebrag alert: Yes, I was blown away by what my 12yo was doing with Lua
because of his Roblox obsession. As mindless and addictive as Roblox looks,
there's a very important silver lining here.
I love lua, but roblox ide and general way how it works have made an impression of gimmick only used to bait parents into "my kid is learning programming", when in fact the system is pretty dull and feels too artificial.
A smart ten year old can write a game and sell it for money, that trumps your subjective aesthetic impressions.
All Roblox games are made the same way. Those should be what sets your impression of the system, not looking at the screen and curling your upper lip.
All Roblox games are made the same way. Those should be what sets your impression of the system, not looking at the screen and curling your upper lip.
Sorry, I was on that other side of the game, which was cheating money out of me, pretending it's teaching my children something, while they and all their virtual friends were engaging in toxic gangs and "parties" built on parents money
Can you expand on how the experience is targeted to make children judge each other? Has this been something your kid(s) experienced on the platform? Just curious.
My daughter have asked me several times if I can spend at least something because other children somehow see she is not a paying user and segregate on that basis
This is a well known occurrence on Fortnite. If you were online wearing a "default" you were mocked by your friends and sometimes targeted for griefing. And not just online, because kids are using the game as a virtual hangout space, this bullying would play out IRL too.
https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/7/18534431/fortnite-rare-defa...
https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/7/18534431/fortnite-rare-defa...
If I were into competitive Fortnite I would never leave the default skin and get extra gratification from stunting on "gamers" who don't know better than to pre-judge skills based on cosmetics...
There's people that do exactly this on youtube; Turn the table of the griefers.
I play Roblox with my son and his friends a lot. Some kids use how much Robux you have as a status thing, but I've been surprised how little griefing and bullying I've seen. I do get called "bacon hair" because my avatar has the default skin (which has hair that looks like strips of bacon).
Noobskin is a phrase used in a similar situation. If you didn't pay for your avatar people notice.
That's great. The game costs nothing and it filters out trash people from her experience.
Wow, if it's true then that's such a vile design, particularly for a game designed for children. However, I'm more inclined to believe that it's just something your daughter may have said to convince you to buy something.
No evil intent is needed. You think an 8 year old won't point out that they're "better" all on their own just because they have something another child hasn't?
Plenty of adults do this too.
Doesn't make it right though.
iPhone vs Android, Mac vs PC, Car vs Car, sportsballer vs sportsballer... so inane.
Doesn't make it right though.
iPhone vs Android, Mac vs PC, Car vs Car, sportsballer vs sportsballer... so inane.
How would you expect children to spend money in game if not by convincing parents to buy something? Of course she received a series of 40 second lectures on how that works in life in general, and why I don't want to enclose her in virtual fraud simulation - she'll have much better ways to do that.
I was unnecessarily vague. What I meant was that it could have been something your daughter made up, just so you'd buy her something.
I understand what you have said here. If lies happen, that likely mean things are much much worse than they look. You don't teach children how to properly intake drugs, you teach them how to properly avoid toxic things in general.
Ditto on liking this comment.
The devil's advocate may be that, given the parallels to regular social challenges (and that 'digital' challenges may actually become more important in the future), Roblox offers a decently monitored, low-risk space to explore.
The game itself doesn't and doesn't have to incentivize social buying pressure. I believe it's just the natural order of things that can be considered signs of status. Because you have complete control over the avatar unlike your body, perhaps the condition is worse. As VR or 'microverses' evolve it's something to observe.
I suppose I was interested in having a powerful status symbol. I can't imagine why else I took so much time as a kid to learn the Roblox 'economy', how to trade, and then get scammed out of it in the end (the greatest lesson). I don't know if this what you meant by toxic or not, but it seems I've been drawn to that same experience with our fun little stonk market this past year.
The devil's advocate may be that, given the parallels to regular social challenges (and that 'digital' challenges may actually become more important in the future), Roblox offers a decently monitored, low-risk space to explore.
The game itself doesn't and doesn't have to incentivize social buying pressure. I believe it's just the natural order of things that can be considered signs of status. Because you have complete control over the avatar unlike your body, perhaps the condition is worse. As VR or 'microverses' evolve it's something to observe.
I suppose I was interested in having a powerful status symbol. I can't imagine why else I took so much time as a kid to learn the Roblox 'economy', how to trade, and then get scammed out of it in the end (the greatest lesson). I don't know if this what you meant by toxic or not, but it seems I've been drawn to that same experience with our fun little stonk market this past year.
I appreciate this comment, and feel like I learned something about parenting from it.
More of, it depends who kids in her class etc are. If majority of parents in peer group don't buy, all is OK.
If peer group is snoby or normalized paying, issues like this happen. It is very naive to think that kids don't bully other kids because of issues like this.
If peer group is snoby or normalized paying, issues like this happen. It is very naive to think that kids don't bully other kids because of issues like this.
This is true.
But what should the proper response be? Give in, throw some few dollars?
But what should the proper response be? Give in, throw some few dollars?
There's a fashion show game where kids judge each other's outfits.
Although that's actually fun and pretty harmless. Designing to a theme is a pretty common thing from Minecraft Build Battles through to Fashion Famous. The former tends to be worse because you get a lot of trolls building sexually explicit and racist stuff.
At least in the version of that game my daughter plays, most of the outfits can be earned in game and traded with other players. My daughter has never bought an outfit from Robux.
The point of the game isn't to have the most expensive outfit but to design an outfit that best matches the given theme.
The point of the game isn't to have the most expensive outfit but to design an outfit that best matches the given theme.
So... grade school?
> In short, Roblox isn’t a game at all: it is world in which one of the things you can do is play games, with a persistent identity, persistent set of friends, persistent money, all disconnected from the device that you use to access the world. That is the transformational change.
Second Life, The Sims Online. We’ve been here before. Those platforms didn’t nail it like Roblox, but Roblox did not transform anything.
Second Life, The Sims Online. We’ve been here before. Those platforms didn’t nail it like Roblox, but Roblox did not transform anything.
Roblox got mass adoption by integrating with educational platforms. Massive quantitative change is often qualitative enough to be transformational.
Second Life and The Sims Online are wildly different from Roblox. You're right that the particular sentence you've picked doesn't capture what Roblox did different, but it did transform the building of virtual experiences.
You can add MUDs and MOOs to that list.
VRChat is becoming one of those platforms. Creating is easy and I spend way too much time playing a faithfully recreated 3D VR of Among Us in there!
Remember that sweet time when marketing departments of (aspiring to be) trendy companies where rushing to create their "digital presence" in Second Life... Yes, we will interview candidates, meet our business partners, talk to our customers in there, etc. We had a good laugh.
We had a professor who held office hours in second life.
I almost worked for a startup whose goal was to offer MS PowerPoint and Excel in Second Life ... for presentations
I'm curious where I too could run into such exciting opportunities
Did they get funded?
Wasn't this the same rhetoric as Fortnite too?
This is a classic "Sometimes it's the early bird that gets the worm, sometimes the second mouse gets the cheese..."
Honest question (not a gamer) - did any of those platforms allow 3rd parties to develop games on their platforms?
Second Life
Roblox pisses me off so so much as a parent. There are some good games but it's mostly wading through an ocean of shit. And the vast majority of games that are popular are clickers that incentivize children to pay money to get more for each of their clicks.
And it's full of scams. Kids spend $10 for a hat or something in the game and it doesn't end up working in all the games and there's no recourse. It's a true free-for-all wild-west.
What we can learn from it is: 1. Making games easy to make and distribute. It's honestly amazing what kids are doing these days. I give Roblox a lot of credit for this. 2. Roblox has become an awesome way for kids to communicate with each other, they share their username at the playground.
And it's full of scams. Kids spend $10 for a hat or something in the game and it doesn't end up working in all the games and there's no recourse. It's a true free-for-all wild-west.
What we can learn from it is: 1. Making games easy to make and distribute. It's honestly amazing what kids are doing these days. I give Roblox a lot of credit for this. 2. Roblox has become an awesome way for kids to communicate with each other, they share their username at the playground.
I disagree that the games are mostly crap... I have 4 step kids who game, and 3 do on roblox a lot. Some of the games may be objectively poor, but they enjoy playing in them anyway, and some of them are spectacular.
I spent quite a few hours playing with them during the original UK lockdown,which was doubly good as I don't live with them so didn't see them for 3 months. In that time we "did" many things,including "going" to a theme park, and spent many hours exploring and seeing how bad I am at it. Without roblox we wouldn't have had that experience.
In terms of scams, I'd rather they learnt using their pocket money than their wages when they are older.
In terms of scams, I'd rather they learnt using their pocket money than their wages when they are older.
Yeah, like I said, there are some decent games, and the stuff that bubbles up to the top of the list are fine I guess, but if you ever try actually searching for a game you will find a cesspool of crap that doesn't work or barely works or is just stupid and all of these games have exactly the same name because there's no QC. 99.9% of the "games" in Roblox are unplayable.
Can you link some examples? It's hard to navigate Roblox without participating in the social network-ish aspects.
"Theme Park Tycoon" is a Rollercoaster Tycoon clone that's really nice. It's pretty much single-player, but you can check out other players' theme parks which is very cool.
"Islands" is mostly a Minecraft ripoff but you're building air castles (you can fall off an "island" and die). This lets the kids do all kinds of invented in-game games, such as building an obstacle course for one another, playing hide and seek etc.
"Fishing Simulator" starts out as a pretty dull pirate-themed fishing game but turns out to have a lot of depth, adventure game style. It also has amazing content for Roblox standards.
"Build A Boat For Treasure" is a lot less fancy than the above, but it has a very cool concept. You design & build your own boat, then go sit in it, and take it through a river full of obstacles. The way you build it determines how it deals with the obstacles because when you sail away you can hardly navigate it anymore. So you need to design for robustness etc, which turns out to be pretty hard.
A lot of the games are shit, but also a lot of the games look shit but have super original ideas. Eg there's a game that you're in a building and then some disaster happens (tsunami, volcano eruption, whatever) which slowly destroys the building and whoever survives the longest in the collapsing building wins. I'm really not sure if that's a ripoff of anything, it strikes me as genuinely original. It's not very deep, but it's good fun.
"Islands" is mostly a Minecraft ripoff but you're building air castles (you can fall off an "island" and die). This lets the kids do all kinds of invented in-game games, such as building an obstacle course for one another, playing hide and seek etc.
"Fishing Simulator" starts out as a pretty dull pirate-themed fishing game but turns out to have a lot of depth, adventure game style. It also has amazing content for Roblox standards.
"Build A Boat For Treasure" is a lot less fancy than the above, but it has a very cool concept. You design & build your own boat, then go sit in it, and take it through a river full of obstacles. The way you build it determines how it deals with the obstacles because when you sail away you can hardly navigate it anymore. So you need to design for robustness etc, which turns out to be pretty hard.
A lot of the games are shit, but also a lot of the games look shit but have super original ideas. Eg there's a game that you're in a building and then some disaster happens (tsunami, volcano eruption, whatever) which slowly destroys the building and whoever survives the longest in the collapsing building wins. I'm really not sure if that's a ripoff of anything, it strikes me as genuinely original. It's not very deep, but it's good fun.
I like naval warfare [0]. Its simple but still fun. You can spawn boats, subs, and planes. There's a collaborative aspect of course. Lots of fun.
[0]: https://naval-warfare-roblox.fandom.com/wiki/Battleship
[0]: https://naval-warfare-roblox.fandom.com/wiki/Battleship
"Roblox Ninja Warrior" - this was fun mostly because the kids could do the courses as they are better at moving than I am. However, they'd sometimes fall off, which is funnier.
"Famous Fashion" was funny - a theme is set and you have to dress up your character to suit, and then everyone votes. I thought I'd be bored in 5 minutes, played it for about 90.
"Universal Studios" was the theme park. Amazingly done.
"Pinewood Space Shuttle" was good fun - particularly if you fall off the shuttle while it's in orbit.
"Starcourt Mall" (Stranger Things) was nice to go there, as we've watched the series together.
"Ragdoll Engine" - as the name implies, just mucking about with the physics of your character.
"Epic Minigames" and "Lab Experiment" have small games in them and they were both pretty fun, plus you're playing against other people. I actually won a round, which the kids never expected, so I became a legend. For 38 seconds.
"Famous Fashion" was funny - a theme is set and you have to dress up your character to suit, and then everyone votes. I thought I'd be bored in 5 minutes, played it for about 90.
"Universal Studios" was the theme park. Amazingly done.
"Pinewood Space Shuttle" was good fun - particularly if you fall off the shuttle while it's in orbit.
"Starcourt Mall" (Stranger Things) was nice to go there, as we've watched the series together.
"Ragdoll Engine" - as the name implies, just mucking about with the physics of your character.
"Epic Minigames" and "Lab Experiment" have small games in them and they were both pretty fun, plus you're playing against other people. I actually won a round, which the kids never expected, so I became a legend. For 38 seconds.
"Pisses off adults" is historically a pretty good metric for evaluating success.
I don't disagree with you — Both theoretically and in reality where success means forking over your money to a massive corporation in order to shut your kids up. Do I sound cranky? :-)
I'm not very familiar with Roblox.
But I have been learning Godot, and it makes creating games extremely easy and fun. And Godot now has https://gotm.io/, you can easily upload games there to be played in the browser. It's really amazing how simple this is.
I imagine that this could be the future of game creation and distribution. We used to have flash, then it went away, and now we'll have something much much cooler.
Shameless plug, some of the games I've made: https://gotm.io/godotacademy
(playable only on desktop, I still haven't figured out what's necessary to make them work well on mobile, but that should be easy as well)
But I have been learning Godot, and it makes creating games extremely easy and fun. And Godot now has https://gotm.io/, you can easily upload games there to be played in the browser. It's really amazing how simple this is.
I imagine that this could be the future of game creation and distribution. We used to have flash, then it went away, and now we'll have something much much cooler.
Shameless plug, some of the games I've made: https://gotm.io/godotacademy
(playable only on desktop, I still haven't figured out what's necessary to make them work well on mobile, but that should be easy as well)
Godot is not comparable: Roblox is a platform, not an engine.
Roblox is a game engine, though. All of the games hosted on Roblox are made in Roblox Studio, which is comparable to the Unity editor.
They’re linking a platform for web-based Godot games.
Fair. What I mean is, without the multiplayer aspect it cannot compete at being a social network centered around virtual experiences.
You've clearly forgotten what being a kid means. Any game kids want to spend
money on is inherently "good" and not "sh_t" according to the one metric that
matters: is it fun or not?
You've clearly forgotten how disappointing things can be when you're a kid. How you waited for Christmas or saved for weeks only to find the thing you got is garbage. I've heard plenty of stories about kids being absolutely gutted for not getting what they thought they were getting for virtual currency in Roblox and Minecraft.
That's also not mentioning how different aspects of a game can be fun or unfun. It could be that kids just want some item in aspirationally in a game but actually have no interest in playing the game itself. Much like how kids can have zero interest in the Pokemon card game but desperately crave spending $4 for the pleasure of 1 minute of unwrapping new cards.
That's also not factoring in the social pressure and envy kids feel when their friends talk about things they have.
That's also not mentioning how different aspects of a game can be fun or unfun. It could be that kids just want some item in aspirationally in a game but actually have no interest in playing the game itself. Much like how kids can have zero interest in the Pokemon card game but desperately crave spending $4 for the pleasure of 1 minute of unwrapping new cards.
That's also not factoring in the social pressure and envy kids feel when their friends talk about things they have.
> You've clearly forgotten how disappointing things can be
I must have because I don't remember being at all "gutted" when I obsessed over the one $20-or-less item my parents allotted me each Christmas. This is quite contrary to what I see amongst kids today who spend all of a couple hours with their physical gifts and go right back to the Minecraft/Roblox marathon.
I must have because I don't remember being at all "gutted" when I obsessed over the one $20-or-less item my parents allotted me each Christmas. This is quite contrary to what I see amongst kids today who spend all of a couple hours with their physical gifts and go right back to the Minecraft/Roblox marathon.
My kids are so much happier on Minecraft because there's no built-in pay-money-to-get-better mechanism. Minecraft has a HUGE value in the price you pay to the amount of awesome gameplay you get. Even with Realms it's cheap compared to what you get out of it.
Well there's no beating Minecraft for value. Except you are aware that Roblox is a completely free game? Not all of the player-made content has PTW elements forced into it.
Except that in this case the vast majority of the money my kids have spent have been a huge failure. They expect something to work a certain way when they buy it and because of zero QC it doesn't and they end up losing their money and crying.
They are learning that the world is a cruel place and people are out to get them. (I'm only partially joking)
They are learning that the world is a cruel place and people are out to get them. (I'm only partially joking)
related: is there some resource to know what a game/social network concerns may be?
My small kids requested: Minecraft, Roblox, Among Us, tik tok , Hogwarts Mystery and the list goes on. My due diligence process is overbooked.
My small kids requested: Minecraft, Roblox, Among Us, tik tok , Hogwarts Mystery and the list goes on. My due diligence process is overbooked.
If you go for Roblox, I recommend using the parental controls to enable curated games only. It wasn't on by default for my <13 yo, which annoys me to no end. If you don't turn it on, you'll end up with your kids in games with freeform sketching and all sorts of questions you weren't planning to answer until later. :-)
> related: is there some resource to know what a game/social network concerns may be?
If you search for "roblox parents" you'll find several good resources.
If you search for "roblox parents" you'll find several good resources.
I have always used https://www.pluggedin.com/
It's run by a Christian org but to their credit they seem to be the only group that actually cares about what kids see and hear in movies and tv. And they cover the most popular movies and tv really quickly.
It's run by a Christian org but to their credit they seem to be the only group that actually cares about what kids see and hear in movies and tv. And they cover the most popular movies and tv really quickly.
I had never hear of Roblox before today, but this comment makes me want to introduce my kids to it. If they blow all of their savings on it now, when their savings is like $50-$100, the lesson learned could save them blowing thousands of dollars of savings on similar scams later in life.
This is supreme nitpicking, but the author being quoted about the term "metaverse" is Neal Stephenson, not "Neil Stephensen".
If I was Neal, I would not consider this a nitpick
I now have 5 or so years experience with Roblox in the house. I've helped my kids make games and I have to say, VC is missing out big time. Roblox (or the concept) has an enormous TAM. Roblox corp is struggling with DX DevRel and moderation. It's an absolute fucking zoo and the tools are shit. Major game publishers have had their accounts taken over by scammers, or just shut down by Roblox because of scammers trying to steal their accounts.
Somebody who understands product, gaming, and devrel could really knock this out of the park. Please do it, so I can go back to making games with my kids.
Somebody who understands product, gaming, and devrel could really knock this out of the park. Please do it, so I can go back to making games with my kids.
Well, fwiw, they did just hire Manuel Bronstein who led product at Zynga, YouTube, and Google Assistant: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/joining-roblox-manuel-bronste...
There's a heap of new products in the space. We're building dot big bang (https://www.dotbigbang.com) which is web based so you can play and make multiplayer games on your smart fridge amongst other devices.
If you're interested you can learn more about the company and project here: https://controlzee.com/
If you're interested you can learn more about the company and project here: https://controlzee.com/
What are the other products?
Off the top of my head Dreams, Crayta, The Sandbox, PlayBytes, RecRoom, Hiberworld and so on.
Can someone explain to me how Roblox doesn't violate Apple's "no app stores in the App Store" rule? And the rule against running non-JavaScript code not bundled with the app? And probably a bunch of other rules too? The article mentions it but has no sensible explanation. It seems impossible to justify.
Apple gets to pick winners and losers by selective enforcement of their own rules. Pretty nice for Roblox if Apple prevents anyone from releasing a competitor!
Apple gets to pick winners and losers by selective enforcement of their own rules. Pretty nice for Roblox if Apple prevents anyone from releasing a competitor!
> Can someone explain to me how Roblox doesn't violate Apple's "no app stores in the App Store" rule?
The games available inside Roblox are impossible to ship as an independent app on the App Store without re-implementing the entire Roblox platform. It's a middle ground between Minecraft selling maps and an actual app store.
The games available inside Roblox are impossible to ship as an independent app on the App Store without re-implementing the entire Roblox platform. It's a middle ground between Minecraft selling maps and an actual app store.
Roblox games are really clunky to make on PCs, let alone phones. You'll never be able to make one on a phone. It's crazy clunky.
A third person character running around with virtual joysticks: so clunky.
Roblox has been around longer than smartphones have, it has always been a port, much like Minecraft. Which sure, kids play.
Roblox is probably setting back the arrival of the metaverse, not advancing it. Whatever that means.
If you actually make and play games you don't talk about things that way. You're more aware of stuff like Dreams or Garry's Mod, you've touched stuff like Unity and Unreal and Flash. You kind of get that Roblox isn't competing with Grand Theft Auto but with YouTube Poop. Literal puppet shows. Like what are we even talking about.
As an aside, the biggest threat to Roblox is if parents spent money. I don't mean in Roblox. Surely, you guys understand, that the appeal of Roblox compared to Disney+, arguably the finest destination for 8 year olds, is that, on the face of it, Roblox is "free." It's a catch 22 really: the audience where they would anticipate all their revenue growth would never waste money on Robux, they would just get a Disney+ subscription.
A third person character running around with virtual joysticks: so clunky.
Roblox has been around longer than smartphones have, it has always been a port, much like Minecraft. Which sure, kids play.
Roblox is probably setting back the arrival of the metaverse, not advancing it. Whatever that means.
If you actually make and play games you don't talk about things that way. You're more aware of stuff like Dreams or Garry's Mod, you've touched stuff like Unity and Unreal and Flash. You kind of get that Roblox isn't competing with Grand Theft Auto but with YouTube Poop. Literal puppet shows. Like what are we even talking about.
As an aside, the biggest threat to Roblox is if parents spent money. I don't mean in Roblox. Surely, you guys understand, that the appeal of Roblox compared to Disney+, arguably the finest destination for 8 year olds, is that, on the face of it, Roblox is "free." It's a catch 22 really: the audience where they would anticipate all their revenue growth would never waste money on Robux, they would just get a Disney+ subscription.
We have Disney+ and Roblox, and my son has hardly any interest in Disney+. It wasn't because of him we got Disney+.
Meanwhile my sons pocket money gets split between V-bucks for Fortnite and Robux, because that is what he wants to spend money on. He could've funded that Disney+ subscription several times over with what he spends on Robux.
I think the things he buys are idiotic, but here's the thing: Over several years, he's never once expressed regret at these purchases. He continues to get enjoyment from it.
A lot of the hate for Roblox I see here feels like parents trying to impose their own preferences on their kids, instead of considering just how idiotic their parents would have found the things they spent money on as kids.
Meanwhile my sons pocket money gets split between V-bucks for Fortnite and Robux, because that is what he wants to spend money on. He could've funded that Disney+ subscription several times over with what he spends on Robux.
I think the things he buys are idiotic, but here's the thing: Over several years, he's never once expressed regret at these purchases. He continues to get enjoyment from it.
A lot of the hate for Roblox I see here feels like parents trying to impose their own preferences on their kids, instead of considering just how idiotic their parents would have found the things they spent money on as kids.
I don't know. Roblox isn't like, the Grateful Dead, the Super Mario of our time. It's hard not to sound like an ass, but its games will feel as culturally irrelevant today as all but one or two Warcraft 3 Custom Maps feel today. Trust me, you're not wrong, it's idiotic.
I started playing Roblox back in 2009 as a 10 year old. I think you're wrong; to this day I still remember spending time in skateparks and Heli-Wars and Person299's Minigames. Not all of those games are around anymore but the playerbase still remembers them. In particular I remember playing Arsenal in early freshmen year of high school, only to find out that it became one of the largest games on the platform by the time I checked back in on Roblox my senior year of college.
None of us spent all of our money as kids on things that still feel culturally relevant today. It's not an interesting metric.
That said, there are games my son's circle of friends have kept coming back to longer than pretty much all games I played as a kid. I think you seriously underestimate the stickiness of the platform.
That said, there are games my son's circle of friends have kept coming back to longer than pretty much all games I played as a kid. I think you seriously underestimate the stickiness of the platform.
Your last comment nails it. But I think its also a Hn trope at this point to have a huge blindspot for social platforms and media companies... the demographic here tends to not grok their value appeal to the broader public.
Basically if you followed HN purely for investing advice you would probably have missed out on all of the major social media and new media platforms of the last 10-15 years.
Basically if you followed HN purely for investing advice you would probably have missed out on all of the major social media and new media platforms of the last 10-15 years.
I "waste" a lot of money on Roblox - $30-40/mo. It's where all my kids friends are, and it's a safe space on the internet that I trust as a parent. They build theme parks, space stations, small businesses – it's amazing, silly, and safe.
> a safe space on the internet
IMO, we should be teaching the next generation, by example, that the safest spaces on the Internet are the small, decentralized spaces that we create for each other, not the large, centralized ones created by companies that aim to exploit us.
IMO, we should be teaching the next generation, by example, that the safest spaces on the Internet are the small, decentralized spaces that we create for each other, not the large, centralized ones created by companies that aim to exploit us.
> Disney+, arguably the finest destination for 8 year olds
Do we really want another generation addicted to consuming big-budget media? Especially now that most of that media is encumbered by DRM that makes free computing platforms much less attractive?
Mind you, I'm not sure that Roblox is the answer. But it might be better, since it at least puts more focus on creating rather than consuming.
Do we really want another generation addicted to consuming big-budget media? Especially now that most of that media is encumbered by DRM that makes free computing platforms much less attractive?
Mind you, I'm not sure that Roblox is the answer. But it might be better, since it at least puts more focus on creating rather than consuming.
> since it at least puts more focus on creating rather than consuming.
My point is, there's no focus on creating. You're imagining Minecraft, but you don't make stuff in Roblox. You can make stuff in Roblox Studio, but there are hardly any 8 year olds doing that, because you have to write Lua, and 8 year olds categorically cannot do that. Unless they're prodigies, in which case, they will thrive doing many things, and creativity expressed in Roblox is the symptom and not the cause of their gifts.
What do kids actually do? There's a lot of "casual" role playing games, clicker games, shooter games and things that feel like Counter-Strike custom maps from the early 2000s. It feels a lot like a Steam Workshop page. Clunkiness abounds, stuff that even older children will not play.
My point is, there's no focus on creating. You're imagining Minecraft, but you don't make stuff in Roblox. You can make stuff in Roblox Studio, but there are hardly any 8 year olds doing that, because you have to write Lua, and 8 year olds categorically cannot do that. Unless they're prodigies, in which case, they will thrive doing many things, and creativity expressed in Roblox is the symptom and not the cause of their gifts.
What do kids actually do? There's a lot of "casual" role playing games, clicker games, shooter games and things that feel like Counter-Strike custom maps from the early 2000s. It feels a lot like a Steam Workshop page. Clunkiness abounds, stuff that even older children will not play.
> because you have to write Lua, and 8 year olds categorically cannot do that. Unless they're prodigies
How do we know this is true? How many more 8-year-olds would program if they had been given a chance? My guess is that most are never given a chance to try.
I learned Applesoft BASIC on an Apple IIGS when I was 8. But I was lucky to be in a home with a computer that came with a disk that had an intro to programming on it. I think that's more relevant than any innate skill I had.
How do we know this is true? How many more 8-year-olds would program if they had been given a chance? My guess is that most are never given a chance to try.
I learned Applesoft BASIC on an Apple IIGS when I was 8. But I was lucky to be in a home with a computer that came with a disk that had an intro to programming on it. I think that's more relevant than any innate skill I had.
I'm pretty sure there are a number of Roblox games that allow you to build things like buildings or logic circuits. Enough to say that "you don't make stuff in Roblox" needs qualification, at the very least.
My kids astound me by having little to no awareness of what toys there are to buy, and I'm convinced this is because of commercial-free streaming (and perhaps the dearth of print catalogs.) Maybe it's a devil's bargain, but a bit of DRM feels worth being free from a materialist/consumerist monkey on your back.
Interesting. I don't have any kids myself, but I know that my nieces (6 years old and under) really like the whole Frozen franchise. Their parents and grandparents have bought them Elsa dresses, toy microphones that let you sing along with one of the songs from Frozen 2, and I don't know what else. So the consumerism is definitely still there. Then again, my nieces and nephew watch a lot of YouTube in addition to paid streaming, and I've been told that when they watch YouTube, the adults in the room have to be careful that the kids don't watch lots of videos that are just promotions for products. I guess what I would prefer is that the kids spent more time creating or at least playing rather than watching. But then, they're not my kids.
I agree some games are clunky but my kids don’t care about that. I offered to buy them Steam games but they were not interested.
You should also check out Phantom Forces on Roblox. Really impressive game play IMO and not clunky at all.
You should also check out Phantom Forces on Roblox. Really impressive game play IMO and not clunky at all.
>A third person character running around with virtual joysticks: so clunky.
This doesn't bother kids, it's all they know. I cringe watching my niece and nephew playing Minecraft and Roblox on their phones with touchscreen controls but they don't care and can use it fine even if it looks clunky and painful to me.
This doesn't bother kids, it's all they know. I cringe watching my niece and nephew playing Minecraft and Roblox on their phones with touchscreen controls but they don't care and can use it fine even if it looks clunky and painful to me.
> would never waste money on Robux
Why do you assume that? My nephew is obsessed with Roblox and has asked for Robux for his birthday, which he will probably get.
Why do you assume that? My nephew is obsessed with Roblox and has asked for Robux for his birthday, which he will probably get.
> the appeal of Roblox compared to Disney+, arguably the finest destination for 8 year olds, is that, on the face of it, Roblox is "free."
Um, no. Roblox is a gaming platform with a somewhat kid-friendly social network. You're comparing going to the movies vs. going to the arcade.
Um, no. Roblox is a gaming platform with a somewhat kid-friendly social network. You're comparing going to the movies vs. going to the arcade.
> Roblox is probably setting back the arrival of the metaverse, not advancing it. Whatever that means.
A true metaverse is predicated on utility.
It helps people get the things they want to get done, done.
That's ultimately been the failure of the majority of attempts.
Social, yes, easy. Entertainment, yes, easy.
Anything else?
A true metaverse is predicated on utility.
It helps people get the things they want to get done, done.
That's ultimately been the failure of the majority of attempts.
Social, yes, easy. Entertainment, yes, easy.
Anything else?
It feels like Roblox is being pumped for the stock issue tomorrow.
Does anyone know why the game for kids switched from Minecraft to Roblox? I remember both of them being around when I was younger, yet everyone chose Minecraft. Today, it’s the opposite.
The multiplayer piece is night and day compared to Minecraft. Doing any kind of social gaming in Minecraft requires a sysadmin setting up servers and upgrading Java plugins. It's a double benefit because game creators don't have to reinvent the multiplayer wheel. I think it's a brilliant setup and why my kid prefers to play Roblox with her friends instead of other socially fragmented games.
Edit: and don't even get me started on the Bedrock/Java Edition schism!
Edit: and don't even get me started on the Bedrock/Java Edition schism!
I'm not sure "switched" is the right word. Minecraft is still massively popular.
Anecdotally, the elementary school crowd my son plays games with play both with regularity.
Anecdotally, the elementary school crowd my son plays games with play both with regularity.
Multiplayer for free. You don't have to run server.
Plus, it is many different games, not just one that is not for everyone. Minecraft was popular, but there were many kids that found it boring.
Yet plus, all kids that I know who play minecraft had it explained by someone. It could be other kid, but basically, game is not self explanatory and is difficult to figure out at first.
Plus, it is many different games, not just one that is not for everyone. Minecraft was popular, but there were many kids that found it boring.
Yet plus, all kids that I know who play minecraft had it explained by someone. It could be other kid, but basically, game is not self explanatory and is difficult to figure out at first.
Minecraft experienced severe feature creep over the years. It started as a very simple game: place or break different colored blocks which all have the same properties on a finite sized map, and in a few years got to the point where people were making CPUs in game with redstone. It got too big and overwhelming for people new to the franchise who haven't been dripped these updates over the years, imo.
The issue is not many features. It is surviving first night, knowing how to set creative so that you dont have to be surviving and creating all elements from first principles.
Kids need to be told how to move around, how to select blocks, etc.
Kids need to be told how to move around, how to select blocks, etc.
Totally ignorant perspective with perhaps no basis: Seems like Roblox must be successful despite its games, not because. I'm sure there are gems as there are with any user-generated platform, but surely most of the 18 million games are about what you used to get on Xbox Live Indie Games: sloppy little experiments made by, well, kids.
When I watched my kids play Roblox, I realized it is a social media platform that happens to use games as the medium. Roblox shouldn't be compared to Games Platforms any more so than early YouTube should be compared to Television.
> little experiments made by, well, kids
I think that's spectacular.
I think that's spectacular.
Not only can a kid go from download to having a playable game created from a template in probably less than 30 minutes, but that game has world class multiplayer support and is available on the Roblox platform for anyone to join and explore. And there is no fragmentation like with Minecraft Bedrock/JE.
And Myspace was often hideous but that didn't matter.
It seems like a solid platform for young creators. They never played the classics anyway, so the million clones is probably not an issue.
It seems like a solid platform for young creators. They never played the classics anyway, so the million clones is probably not an issue.
> Totally ignorant perspective with perhaps no basis: Seems like Roblox must be successful despite its games, not because.
As a parent with two kids who play Roblox a lot (and have played some myself), the quality varies widely but there are many good games. Part of the fun is talking with friends and watching YouTube to find the best ones.
As a parent with two kids who play Roblox a lot (and have played some myself), the quality varies widely but there are many good games. Part of the fun is talking with friends and watching YouTube to find the best ones.
If you’re a parent with a kid that plays Roblox make sure you lock your account down. Creating an account in the iOS app doesn’t require an associated email address. If your kid somehow forgets their password you might not be able to reset it without an associated email address. If their account gets stolen which happened to my daughter and you don’t have an associated email address it can be a real headache to unlock the account and get it back. Also make sure you have two factor authentication enabled. I know this is pretty mundane advice but the fact that Roblox lets you create an account without an email address or an associated phone number for 2FA means you can find yourself with a real headache if your kid gets locked out of their account for whatever reason.
I'm interested in how you got the account back. My kid lost access to the email address on the account. It wasn't stolen, it was a school email address at an old school. Replies from Roblox support have been very slow and not helpful - just instructions on how to recover using the email on the account (as if they never read the original support request).
I had to provide Roblox support with receipts from the iOS App Store showing purchases made for the account. I think there’s an id in the receipt that they can match against the account. I’m not sure what they could go if no purchases were made on the account though.
Roblox seems to have nearly doubled their value during the pandemic. Will this hold water once kids are back in school?
The important thing about Roblox is that it's part of a larger trend of platform that enable a competitive creator environment that bubble up the "best" content to the top (like TikTok, YouTube, and Reddit). Roblox does it for games, and perhaps in the best way we've seen so far.
This perspective can also give us a sneak peek into will replace Roblox in the future. If you look at the YouTube --> TikTok transition, the main differences are that TikTok's content is entirely recommended, and that the content itself is more shorter (i.e. faster to trigger the dopamine response). The new gaming platform will likely be similar - a faster, quicker experience that will initially cater to kids but will eventually capture adults as well (and the content will evolve to support that).
Side note: It's absolutely incredible how much the comment section here is filled with parents either complaining or seeking validation for their ways of raising their kids. It shows how the transition to digital consumption is polarizing and challenging to our conventional wisdom.
This perspective can also give us a sneak peek into will replace Roblox in the future. If you look at the YouTube --> TikTok transition, the main differences are that TikTok's content is entirely recommended, and that the content itself is more shorter (i.e. faster to trigger the dopamine response). The new gaming platform will likely be similar - a faster, quicker experience that will initially cater to kids but will eventually capture adults as well (and the content will evolve to support that).
Side note: It's absolutely incredible how much the comment section here is filled with parents either complaining or seeking validation for their ways of raising their kids. It shows how the transition to digital consumption is polarizing and challenging to our conventional wisdom.
First off, I consider myself pretty liberal in my views and open to online gaming in general. However, as a parent and grandparent, I think Roblox is HIGHLY dangerous for kids. I've watched my granddaughter play some games that were completely ripe with players looking to exploit her. Music playing with Rated-XXX lyrics - referring to varied sexual acts. Games based on pets (wolves) wanting to "ride" each other and playing what seemed like a pornographic soundtrack in the background. I'm talking about true porn, moaning, foul language, you name it.
She is no longer allowed to play the game at our home. I would have to spend all my time policing her online play and dealing with her disappointment at not being able to play specific games.
I don't see how parents can allow their kids to play Roblox. It is wide open to exploitation - there is no restriction, control or protection offered for children. And to top it off, 99% of gameplay requires purchasing virtual items.
Just bleh, shock and a big nope for my family. Roblox should be ashamed at the platform they have created.
She is no longer allowed to play the game at our home. I would have to spend all my time policing her online play and dealing with her disappointment at not being able to play specific games.
I don't see how parents can allow their kids to play Roblox. It is wide open to exploitation - there is no restriction, control or protection offered for children. And to top it off, 99% of gameplay requires purchasing virtual items.
Just bleh, shock and a big nope for my family. Roblox should be ashamed at the platform they have created.
I wanna play Roblox on Debian Linux and distros based on Debian.
Why can't I?
it supposedly works on ChromeOS
Why can't I?
it supposedly works on ChromeOS
Roblox has made repeated statements on this, latest from their Roblox Developer Con 2020.
In short, not enough demand that requires more support for players.
There has been repeated demands for this but every year is a no.
Here is one of those threads https://devforum.roblox.com/t/proper-support-for-the-linux-p...
ChromeOS works because it uses the Android version of Roblox.
In short, not enough demand that requires more support for players.
There has been repeated demands for this but every year is a no.
Here is one of those threads https://devforum.roblox.com/t/proper-support-for-the-linux-p...
ChromeOS works because it uses the Android version of Roblox.
If anyone is interested in what Roblox is capable of, check out the following games:
Roblox Hellreaver https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tMpXnRG19U&ab_channel=Popta...
and
Waterloo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS4KBNTocQY&ab_channel=Pixel...
One of the benefits of Roblox is it's extremely unopinionated in aesthetics and gameplay mechanics, which is quite different from Minecraft. Combined with zero upfront cost developing/publishing/operating and large platform user base, it opens up lots of possibilities for developers.
Roblox Hellreaver https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tMpXnRG19U&ab_channel=Popta...
and
Waterloo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS4KBNTocQY&ab_channel=Pixel...
One of the benefits of Roblox is it's extremely unopinionated in aesthetics and gameplay mechanics, which is quite different from Minecraft. Combined with zero upfront cost developing/publishing/operating and large platform user base, it opens up lots of possibilities for developers.
As a recent college grad, I remember when I used to play Roblox as a middle school student with my best friend back in the day. I tried for nostalgia's sake to see how the game is present day. While I am somewhat lacking in understanding some of the changes, and road that the game has gone down now, it still appears to be a good online community for those who need an easy game to get around.
I might still have the Roblox Studio tool (circa 2012/13) installed on an old Pentium 4 laptop.
I might still have the Roblox Studio tool (circa 2012/13) installed on an old Pentium 4 laptop.
Is anyone making money off Roblox? Tried to make some gear so my son could make money and stop asking me for Robux. Failed miserably. Anyway, I'll be buying stock.
My son's best friend is pulling down $1K/year doing Lua scripting and object modelling for people on a subcontracting basis.
He's 15. He acknowledges he could be pulling in a lot more money if he spent 2x or 4x the time on it. Or dropped out of high school, perhaps.
He's 15. He acknowledges he could be pulling in a lot more money if he spent 2x or 4x the time on it. Or dropped out of high school, perhaps.
Roblox is.
This is just a near-NCAA tier play by the company to make money off child labor. Change my mind.
This is just a near-NCAA tier play by the company to make money off child labor. Change my mind.
I think a negligible fraction of Roblox games are child created. The focus is either Roblox-created games like Bloxburg or indie adult-created games. Children (with their parent's credit card info) are the target consumers, not target creators.
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No doubt about that. You have to have a premium account just to make and list items for sale.
Yes. Both Roblox and developers (the game creators) do make money from Roblox. This is no small thing either, it is not abnormal for developers to buy expensive products from their earnings, some do create companies to hire employees to work on games.
> Step 0 — Pre-Internet: The primary way to distribute video games was on consoles, which were controlled by the console makers; computer gaming was more open, but still required significant distribution capabilities. This was the newspaper era of video game publishing.
Makes you think - what if someone had figured out a way to run games on PCs? Or even on those 8-bit micros we all had back in the day.
Makes you think - what if someone had figured out a way to run games on PCs? Or even on those 8-bit micros we all had back in the day.
For the step 2 and 3 phase, I think it should be mentioned how important games becoming free was for mass adoption. As much as I as a former game dev did not love the model of free and then upselling. I might just be old school at this point. Free and then upgrading avatars has grown on me.
Is the distinction here between Roblox and Second Life that Roblox has official apps on mobile and console (that seems to be where he refers to it as a "metaverse")?
I've generally been under the impression Roblox is basically Second Life for kids.
I've generally been under the impression Roblox is basically Second Life for kids.
I struggle to differentiate Roblox from Second Life by reading Ben’s description of it. But then again, being the earliest doesn’t equate to being the best.
Didn't use Roblox, nor Second Life, but my understanding is that Roblox is much more oriented towards gaming.
I'm also a parent who's child plays Roblox a lot. I don't know much about PC games, so can the parents here suggest some better alternatives?
Just for reference: https://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/windows/ has a huge database of video games.
Also, assuming your child plays with real life friends I don't know how much sense it would make to suggest alternatives to Roblox (group dynamics, network effects and all), but something like Terraria, Starbound, Minecraft or even Garry's Mod would fit here.
See also searching by tags on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/search/?tags=3859,3810 (here: Sandbox, Multiplayer)
Also, assuming your child plays with real life friends I don't know how much sense it would make to suggest alternatives to Roblox (group dynamics, network effects and all), but something like Terraria, Starbound, Minecraft or even Garry's Mod would fit here.
See also searching by tags on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/search/?tags=3859,3810 (here: Sandbox, Multiplayer)
Roblox costs less money and those games are actually targetted at kids. Really, new games cost a lot and steam discounts on aggregate cost more.
Plus, competitive online pc gaming is something I dont want my kids near to. Mostly because of culture and addictive nature of it.
Speaking of addiction, worst are MMO like games, things like league of legends or world of warcraft. I dont want my kids to play any of that, these games tend to consume whole person.
Roblox is safe and age appropriate.
Plus, competitive online pc gaming is something I dont want my kids near to. Mostly because of culture and addictive nature of it.
Speaking of addiction, worst are MMO like games, things like league of legends or world of warcraft. I dont want my kids to play any of that, these games tend to consume whole person.
Roblox is safe and age appropriate.
My kids play Minecraft on the switch (creative mode), and they absolutely love it. I think it's a bit addicting, but I don't mind since it's essentially virtual legos.
I’m a parent who plays roblox (mostly Arsenal) with my kids :)
Retrogaming
Let's see how long this stays benign until chasing growth targets sinks the ship.
The optimist in me is very excited for the possibilities in this game in the future.
d/ld roblox yesterday, it's impossible to play some of the popular ones on a tablet, no idea what's going on with pigs running around hitting people on the head, uninstalled immediately
I will buy this company when it is listed tomorrow.
I've taught my children about pay-to-win and robux
youtube.com / googlevideo.net / 1e100.net banned
youtube.com / googlevideo.net / 1e100.net banned
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Eg my youngest likes the clicking simulators. Many of those are awful "pay to win" schemes but some actually have fun game dynamics (not unlike the Paperclip Simulator html game that's an HN favorite[0]). Those are the ones he returns to.
These are the games that are more creative in nature, the games that are more challenging and so on and so forth. I feel that at least 7 out of 10 times I check on them, they're doing a game that involves creation, economics, collaboration, and often multiple of those.
[0] https://www.decisionproblem.com/paperclips/index2.html