Apple, Google Both Track Mobile Telemetry Data, Despite Users Opting Out(threatpost.com)
threatpost.com
Apple, Google Both Track Mobile Telemetry Data, Despite Users Opting Out
https://threatpost.com/google-apple-track-mobile-opting-out/165147/
23 comments
Monitoring people and then selling the data or using it as a sales channel is a way to increase revenue. A lot of companies are under pressure to not just be successful but have constant growth. Following what Google has done is an option company leadership is turning to.
A few years ago the CEO of Ford talked about monitoring and selling access to data like FB. By monitoring, I mean things like the ads you listen to on the radio or the radio stations you tune into along with your location. Trying to sell cars isn't enough.
> Phone contains sensitive data which cars usually don't?
Cars know things like where you go, who you talk to through the A/V system, what radio stations you listen to and ads you hear, and even your conversations (they have microphones that can be used just like those in cell phones).
People assume they are in their own personal space when in a car. When in a car alone they think they are private. If the car is monitoring you that's not the case.
A few years ago the CEO of Ford talked about monitoring and selling access to data like FB. By monitoring, I mean things like the ads you listen to on the radio or the radio stations you tune into along with your location. Trying to sell cars isn't enough.
> Phone contains sensitive data which cars usually don't?
Cars know things like where you go, who you talk to through the A/V system, what radio stations you listen to and ads you hear, and even your conversations (they have microphones that can be used just like those in cell phones).
People assume they are in their own personal space when in a car. When in a car alone they think they are private. If the car is monitoring you that's not the case.
Are there any good resources for finding the 4G chip inside of modern cars and wrapping with a faraday cage?
That's ridiculous for the automotive industry too. Also, pointing fingers at bad behaviour is hardly a justification for Google's (and other's) total lack of good faith.
> The phone IMEI, hardware serial number, SIM serial number and IMSI, handset phone number etc. are shared with Apple ...
You’ll also be surprised to learn that Apple gets to know your phone number when you set up iMessage. Really? This is basic information they need for operations. I’m all for privacy and not giving Big Tech access to unnecessary telemetry but this ain’t it.
You’ll also be surprised to learn that Apple gets to know your phone number when you set up iMessage. Really? This is basic information they need for operations. I’m all for privacy and not giving Big Tech access to unnecessary telemetry but this ain’t it.
You can use imessage without a phone number.
Apple needs to know whether or not your phone number is registered with another phone in order to deregister it.
Otherwise people texting your number could have their messages sent via iMessage to the previous owner of your phone number.
Otherwise people texting your number could have their messages sent via iMessage to the previous owner of your phone number.
yes, but just saying - you can use imessage on an ipad.
I agree; this article feels like FUD and needs more evidence to back its claims.
I know that Apple alerts you if a new phone number is used, or you sign in from a new device, or a bunch of other indicators of compromise.
I know that Apple alerts you if a new phone number is used, or you sign in from a new device, or a bunch of other indicators of compromise.
What operations? Do users opt-in to these operations?
You opt in when you choose to buy a piece of hardware from a vendor, and when you sign up for a carrier. Apple needs to identify phones that are flagged as stolen. They also need to connect the user to the carrier through their software and hardware, which means they must have a level of visibility as to who the user is.
Not sure (IANAL) if buying a piece of hardware constitutes "freely given, specific, informed and unambiguous indication of the data subject’s wishes by which he or she, by a statement or by a clear affirmative action, signifies agreement to the processing of personal data relating to him or her" (GDPR).
"Consent means giving people genuine choice and control over how you use their data. If the individual has no real choice, consent is not freely given and it will be invalid." and "This means people must be able to refuse consent without detriment, and must be able to withdraw consent easily at any time. It also means consent should be unbundled from other terms and conditions (including giving separate granular consent options for different types of processing) wherever possible." (ICO commentary)
Of course, this only applies wherever the GDPR applies.
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio...
"Consent means giving people genuine choice and control over how you use their data. If the individual has no real choice, consent is not freely given and it will be invalid." and "This means people must be able to refuse consent without detriment, and must be able to withdraw consent easily at any time. It also means consent should be unbundled from other terms and conditions (including giving separate granular consent options for different types of processing) wherever possible." (ICO commentary)
Of course, this only applies wherever the GDPR applies.
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio...
Legitimate interest, not consent.
Organizations can have a legitimate interest to process data in order to provide a user with the data service they signed up for.
Organizations can have a legitimate interest to process data in order to provide a user with the data service they signed up for.
Some monitoring is for operations. Apple needs to know your phone number of iMessage (if you have that enabled with most people do). Google and Apple will track the location for the "find my device" features that many of us use.
There are potential security reasons Apple may be using the information, too. For example, if more than one phone has the same phone number, IMEI, etc... it may be that one is spoofing the other. Do they look to catch that?
One of the things we don't talk enough about (or look into) is what info is being collected and how it is or can be used. Some of this is a black box at the companies and we need to go on reputation. It would be great if more of that use was opened up to people.
For reputation, Google is known to use all the data they can to influence behavior to make money. There have been books and papers written on this and the history of it. Apple is not known for this. So, their reputation is a little different. Just for context.
There are potential security reasons Apple may be using the information, too. For example, if more than one phone has the same phone number, IMEI, etc... it may be that one is spoofing the other. Do they look to catch that?
One of the things we don't talk enough about (or look into) is what info is being collected and how it is or can be used. Some of this is a black box at the companies and we need to go on reputation. It would be great if more of that use was opened up to people.
For reputation, Google is known to use all the data they can to influence behavior to make money. There have been books and papers written on this and the history of it. Apple is not known for this. So, their reputation is a little different. Just for context.
Somewhat related recent discussion:
Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS (therecord.media)
798 points by gormandizer 1 day ago | 421 comments
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261.
Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS (therecord.media)
798 points by gormandizer 1 day ago | 421 comments
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261.
> When a SIM is inserted, both iOS and Google Android send details to Apple/Google. iOS sends the MAC addresses of nearby devices, e.g. other handsets and the home gateway, to Apple, together with their GPS location.
I guess it will be much easier for law enforcement to just get the data from Apple/Google instead of the telcos. Not only would you get the exact GPS location of the device you are interested in, but you can get all the nearby devices too.
This seems much more accurate then the old way of triangulating from cell towers.
Edit: If this is only referring to the moment the SIM card is inserted, and not with any repeated/real-time updates, this would not be useful.
I guess it will be much easier for law enforcement to just get the data from Apple/Google instead of the telcos. Not only would you get the exact GPS location of the device you are interested in, but you can get all the nearby devices too.
This seems much more accurate then the old way of triangulating from cell towers.
Edit: If this is only referring to the moment the SIM card is inserted, and not with any repeated/real-time updates, this would not be useful.
While collecting this data still deserves suspicion, the number of times I’ve inserted a SIM card on my new phone is zero. It was done, once, by the carrier rep when I originally bought it. I’m still wondering how that would be useful to LE, or even Apple.
Interesting. The number of times someone else inserted a SIM card in my phone is zero, even when the phone was bought from my carrier at a physical location (they just give me the phone in a retail box, same as any regular retailer would).
Practices vary regionally, I guess.
Practices vary regionally, I guess.
You cannot do anything with an iphone without activating it by contacting apple..
Some of those connections are at user request and are downloads rather than uploads. For example the article mentions safari contacting Apple even if you don’t run it. Part of Safari’s contract is to show you tabs from your other devices, so it will contact Apple to download and cache this info. I believe chrome is similar.
I’m not trying to defend either megacorp, just pointing out that there is more subtlety than encompassed by this brief article.
I’m not trying to defend either megacorp, just pointing out that there is more subtlety than encompassed by this brief article.
Let's be clear: all this is designed and on purpose!
- Google 2021
They started this phoning home concept and now they are blaming other. Looks like Google is trying hard to justify its own system lol. And they should also know Phone and Car are different thing. Just because they use chips/ cpu etc doesn't mean cars and phone are same. Phone contains sensitive data which cars usually don't?
And we seriously need more competitors in this OS thing. Andriod and IOS can't be trusted. Hopefully Pinephone etc will succeed so we can enjoy the privacy that everyone deserves.