Missing hiker found after man using computer at home pinpoints his location(nbclosangeles.com)
nbclosangeles.com
Missing hiker found after man using computer at home pinpoints his location
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/california-news/missing-hiker-mt-waterman-photo-search/2572468/
185 comments
High stakes geoguessr. Happy to have one of these stories with a happy ending.
At first I thought the headline referred to Bill Ewasko who has been missing in Joshua Park since 2010 [1].
I came across that story after somebody on HN posted about the Death Valley Germans [2]. A couple of hours well-spent.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/22/magazine/voya... [2] https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hu...
I came across that story after somebody on HN posted about the Death Valley Germans [2]. A couple of hours well-spent.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/22/magazine/voya... [2] https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hu...
I remember reading about that Bill Ewasko case back when it became newsworthy. On reflecting now, and hearing about other stories, I tend to think the guy was abducted / killed by someone in the wilderness, given the weirdness about his cell phone signals, etc. and him never having been found. There's a lot of shady shit that goes on in the desert, even in a place like Joshua Tree.
Anyway, aside from that, I am perpetually in awe / fascinated by how we as human beings long to solve a puzzle, no matter how distant or unfamiliar (or insignificant) another person is to us. There are stories about townspeople keeping a stranger's death alive for decades until solving it. It's almost like a mysterious death is as important, if not more important in a collective consciousness, as lots of people dying from something that is well known or not "interesting"...
Anyway, aside from that, I am perpetually in awe / fascinated by how we as human beings long to solve a puzzle, no matter how distant or unfamiliar (or insignificant) another person is to us. There are stories about townspeople keeping a stranger's death alive for decades until solving it. It's almost like a mysterious death is as important, if not more important in a collective consciousness, as lots of people dying from something that is well known or not "interesting"...
It's far easier to die alone and probably injured and never be found in the wilderness than people think, especially in mountainous desert terrain.
Why would that person turn on the phone 3 days later for a brief moment while they're still near the park, and then turn it off forever?
It seems more likely that he just fell down an old mine shaft or into a pit of some kind. Maybe his phone couldn't get service but because of some temporary atmospheric condition it was able to ping the tower.
It seems more likely that he just fell down an old mine shaft or into a pit of some kind. Maybe his phone couldn't get service but because of some temporary atmospheric condition it was able to ping the tower.
Heartwarming story!
On a related note, have there been any attempts on developing AI models that can pinpoint an (approximate?) location, given a photo?
On a related note, have there been any attempts on developing AI models that can pinpoint an (approximate?) location, given a photo?
DFWCaaS (Don't F* with Cats [0] as a service)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_F**k_With_Cats:_Huntin...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_F**k_With_Cats:_Huntin...
I sure hope not jfc
I was hoping to get a summary of how the guy guessed!
“Well, by the angle of the sun he had to be in an n-mile radius of his car. In that area, there are only 4 cliffs with sufficient height to be in that photo with wildfire burn areas in between. And the plants had to be of the genus whateverae due to the shape of their spikes, and those _obviosuly_ only grow on the north face of sedimentary rocks... so it had to be X”
“Well, by the angle of the sun he had to be in an n-mile radius of his car. In that area, there are only 4 cliffs with sufficient height to be in that photo with wildfire burn areas in between. And the plants had to be of the genus whateverae due to the shape of their spikes, and those _obviosuly_ only grow on the north face of sedimentary rocks... so it had to be X”
Twitter thread here is the person explaining their method:
https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1382375691233103874
https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1382375691233103874
[deleted]
You’re the hero we need
> If someone is lost along the Angeles Crest, ...
> they are either NORTH of the Angeles Crest Highway
> or SOUTH of the Angeles Crest Freeway.
I understand why people get lost.
I understand why people get lost.
Apparently he used Sentinel-Hub, which is a service I'd never heard of. I just signed up to try their service but apparently the free plan advertised on their pricing page is a scam. There's no such thing. It seems you can't use the service without paying.
While you might need an account to access the underlying data, you don't need an account to view the imagery
https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/sentinel-playground/
https://www.sentinel-hub.com/explore/eobrowser/
https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/sentinel-playground/
https://www.sentinel-hub.com/explore/eobrowser/
Holy shit, it gives you near-IR and visual spectra every ~60 hours. This is amazing. I feel like a spy in a late cold-war novel.
I raise you GOES-17 aka GOES-West currently:
https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/GOES/sector.php?sat=G17&sec...
Though it’s a trade off! GOES has a really fast return (10-15 minutes, IIRC) but doesn’t do global and has comparatively poor spatial resolution (red at 500m per pixel, many near IR at 1km, LWIR at 2km). So you can get some data every 15 minutes, but for the city of San Francisco it’s only 10x10 pixels.
This is part of why folks like to join high-resolution data with high-temporal frequency data like GOES. Including me! (Well, I hope to get back to my side project using the Descartes Labs API to “learn” high-spatial GOES from the combo of sentinel2 and GOES).
https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/GOES/sector.php?sat=G17&sec...
Though it’s a trade off! GOES has a really fast return (10-15 minutes, IIRC) but doesn’t do global and has comparatively poor spatial resolution (red at 500m per pixel, many near IR at 1km, LWIR at 2km). So you can get some data every 15 minutes, but for the city of San Francisco it’s only 10x10 pixels.
This is part of why folks like to join high-resolution data with high-temporal frequency data like GOES. Including me! (Well, I hope to get back to my side project using the Descartes Labs API to “learn” high-spatial GOES from the combo of sentinel2 and GOES).
NOAA satellites are great. I used something a while back to check to see if a relative's house was OK after some wildfires.
[deleted]
The page clearly says what feature you get with a free account, how is that a scam?
When you sign up and find that you don't actually get that feature.
But you do? Not sure what feature you are talking about. Access to data on the EO browser is free. That's the only thing advertised.
If you do R&D you can also get API access for free or heavily discounted.
This a project backed by the EU and the European Space Agency; no scams there!
If you do R&D you can also get API access for free or heavily discounted.
This a project backed by the EU and the European Space Agency; no scams there!
> "I have a very weird hobby, which is I love taking a look at photos and figuring out where they're taken."
Sometimes you have the right person in the right place at the right time. I'm also really interested in learning more about how this person pinpointed the hiker.
Sometimes you have the right person in the right place at the right time. I'm also really interested in learning more about how this person pinpointed the hiker.
Ben explains his methods here:
https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1382371967618097157
https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1382781121407029253
https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1382371967618097157
https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1382781121407029253
It's a surprisingly fun "game"! I've been on a quest to geotag all my older photos, from digital cameras without GPS. It's a great combination of a trip down memory lane – what do I remember about where I was when I took some photo on a trip, or back in college? – plus playing the role of a satellite spy-photo analyst.
You could imagine that skill would be prized at somewhere like the CIA
If I were CIA I'd just ask for (or I already have) all street view imagery from Google and run an image search.
Even if it's Yandex (Russian) Street View, the CIA should have the resources to download them..
Even if it's Yandex (Russian) Street View, the CIA should have the resources to download them..
Lol... I don't think they'd have all cliff face imagery :)
It's not about the ability to identify an address, it's about the talent that makes you much better at that than most people are.
If you want to approximate it, play GeoGuessr with the self-imposed restrictions of no movement, no rotations. Obvs GeoGuessr primarily has road shots, but if you spend enough time at it, you will find it is a skill that can be improved.
For non-players, the "self-imposed restrictions" are actively enforced by the UI if you choose to request them. The most restrictive category is "no moving, panning, or zooming", abbreviated "NMPZ", in which you must guess your location from a single still Street View image.
If you search for "NMPZ" on YouTube, you'll see that some people have become very very good at this (!).
If you search for "NMPZ" on YouTube, you'll see that some people have become very very good at this (!).
There's also a subreddit for this sort of thing — r/whereisthis.
You can also sit on the couch while your spouse watches House Hunter’s International and try to find the apartments as they go.
"I looked at a multitude of clues from the terrain, the type of foliage, the angle of the sun, the moss on trees and together with the EXIF info from the hiker's photo, I was able to deduce the location of the missing hiker!"
His Twitter explanation doesnt mention exif data, but rather the time his friend had called the police/rescue station.
I am glad that this story has a happy ending.
But, as this poster stated (see comment tree here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065803) there is no reason to be going into wilderness in 2020 (or 2021) without a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB). You get them, of course, at a place like REI.
As another poster said "They should be considered as basic and as necessary as a life vest, seat belt, or bike helmet. You should not be backpacking on the Appalachian trail without one." See this comment tree: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065435
There are also variants of PLBs (which are not as robust) called satellite communicators. The Garmin Inreach series and Zotero devices are quite popular satellite communicators.
Even when exercising outside and not in the wilderness, I carry a Garmin Inreach Mini (which works with my Garmin watch) in case of a medical emergency. I have health conditions and it virtually guarantees that emergency services gets my GPS coordinates. Of course, I take other safety precautions to avoid an emergency in the first place.
But, as this poster stated (see comment tree here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065803) there is no reason to be going into wilderness in 2020 (or 2021) without a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB). You get them, of course, at a place like REI.
As another poster said "They should be considered as basic and as necessary as a life vest, seat belt, or bike helmet. You should not be backpacking on the Appalachian trail without one." See this comment tree: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065435
There are also variants of PLBs (which are not as robust) called satellite communicators. The Garmin Inreach series and Zotero devices are quite popular satellite communicators.
Even when exercising outside and not in the wilderness, I carry a Garmin Inreach Mini (which works with my Garmin watch) in case of a medical emergency. I have health conditions and it virtually guarantees that emergency services gets my GPS coordinates. Of course, I take other safety precautions to avoid an emergency in the first place.
Carrying a PLB or satellite communicator is not a bad idea, but there is a huge obstacle for many people to obtain one: They cost a fair bit of money. I believe the Inreach devices are ~$400USD, plus a minimum subscription of ~12/month. That's not realistic for a lot of people.
People have been successfully & safely travelling the wilderness for centuries without these devices. If you have solid wilderness skills, and take appropriate precautions, there is nothing unsafe about exploring the wilderness, with or without a PLB.
People have been successfully & safely travelling the wilderness for centuries without these devices. If you have solid wilderness skills, and take appropriate precautions, there is nothing unsafe about exploring the wilderness, with or without a PLB.
I know people with _boats_ who go out all the time and won't shell out for Iridium
Yeah. I certainly won't argue against anyone carrying one. But arguing that not doing so is the equivalent of not having a map and compass (especially in areas you're not familiar with) is idiotic.
Inreach is about $300 and you can get a monthly plan. Cost is coming down but still expensive for a lot of people just going for a local hike. I carry mine on all my hikes after using my friends on a week long backpacking trip in the BC coast range. Was nice to be able to check in with my wife and also get in touch with the float plane pilot who was coming to get us.
An iphone costs more and the monthly plan is more expensive and when you figure a PLB is insurance against a life or death situation, the 400 pricing or monthly fee is nothing...
Plus, you can find simple ones used... spot beacons have a pretty healthy after market
Plus, you can find simple ones used... spot beacons have a pretty healthy after market
I just really have a lot of trouble with that comment. I originally downvoted--but then I didn't--but I just have trouble with the concept that I must always take active measures to have people rescue me just really bothers me.
I'd probably consider a PLB if I were soloing in a remote area but I doubt if I would on the AT in general. And certainly don't have (or would consider) in routine local outside areas.
I'd probably consider a PLB if I were soloing in a remote area but I doubt if I would on the AT in general. And certainly don't have (or would consider) in routine local outside areas.
If you're outside of cellphone range - which is pretty feasible even in near-to-civilization outdoors areas - and you become immobilized, you're stuck until a) someone else happens across you - which could happen if you're actually on a fairly well traveled route, b) you don't return on time and your friends/family initiate a search - and hopefully you gave them an accurate trip plan and didn't deviate from the route, or c) press the SOS button on your PLB or satellite communicator.
Depending on your condition, any additional delay of hours or days means it'll probably end up as a body recovery instead of a rescue. If it were me, I'd want get get help ASAP if I needed it. (Even if you're experienced, trained, equipped, and prepared, things can happen...)
Depending on your condition, any additional delay of hours or days means it'll probably end up as a body recovery instead of a rescue. If it were me, I'd want get get help ASAP if I needed it. (Even if you're experienced, trained, equipped, and prepared, things can happen...)
The parent comment explains what a PLB is an how to get to them.
If you're experienced enough to judge the risks yourself, it's just advice. Noone requires you to take a PLB, water bottle, or buddy, but all would raise your chance of survival in an emergency.
If you're experienced enough to judge the risks yourself, it's just advice. Noone requires you to take a PLB, water bottle, or buddy, but all would raise your chance of survival in an emergency.
The parent wrote "there is no reason to be going into wilderness in 2020 (or 2021)." The implication was that it was irresponsible to do otherwise.
I agree with your comment generally though. If you are experienced enough to make choices you can do so. Including doing solo activities. (Though I might draw the line at things like not taking water which are bad practices in many circumstances.)
I agree with your comment generally though. If you are experienced enough to make choices you can do so. Including doing solo activities. (Though I might draw the line at things like not taking water which are bad practices in many circumstances.)
I think a lot of it is that the safety nets let people be more careless, and proper skills aren’t considered prerequisites.
I grew up with the ethos that you never want to be that guy who has to get rescued from the wilderness (and I still believe that). To me, having to get rescued is a mark of severe embarrassment - not only for your own failure in the outdoors but what you’ve now obligated others to risk in the rescue attempt. That means you better have skills, be hardy, and be prepared for shit and not assume you can just “eject” from your situation with an sos button.
Things change when you get your own dependent family though, and the cheapness of a locator device like an inreach make them very cheap insurance for stupid mistakes if you still want to engage in lone multi-day wilderness excursions.
I really don’t think it should change anything in risk calculation and preparedness though. If you have to use it, it still represents a complete fail for you as an outdoorsman. The downside is that their easy availability makes people more likely to engage SAR when they should just suck it up or not have gone out in the first place.
I grew up with the ethos that you never want to be that guy who has to get rescued from the wilderness (and I still believe that). To me, having to get rescued is a mark of severe embarrassment - not only for your own failure in the outdoors but what you’ve now obligated others to risk in the rescue attempt. That means you better have skills, be hardy, and be prepared for shit and not assume you can just “eject” from your situation with an sos button.
Things change when you get your own dependent family though, and the cheapness of a locator device like an inreach make them very cheap insurance for stupid mistakes if you still want to engage in lone multi-day wilderness excursions.
I really don’t think it should change anything in risk calculation and preparedness though. If you have to use it, it still represents a complete fail for you as an outdoorsman. The downside is that their easy availability makes people more likely to engage SAR when they should just suck it up or not have gone out in the first place.
> I really don’t think it should change anything in risk calculation and preparedness though. If you have to use it, it still represents a complete fail for you as an outdoorsman. The downside is that their easy availability makes people more likely to engage SAR when they should just suck it up or not have gone out in the first place.
Thank you! Exactly and agreed 100%. Even when out-and-about in public in the city, I can deploy it in a few seconds (either via the device itself or my Garmin watch), in addition to calling 911 for someone in distress, so the exact GPS coordinates of the incident are shared. This ensures that no delays occur with rescue on my end.
I am big on preparing and I look needing SAR operations as a huge systemic failure. It is true that all it takes is one mistake to end up in such a situation.
As I said, I have health conditions. Backpacking for days in the wilderness (no matter how prepared or "responsible" I may be) is not possible and is unsafe in my particular situation. I can go on day hikes though, generally, without issue with adequate preparation.
For people criticizing the use of such technology: Have you called 911 before for an incident where there are not a lot of addresses/cross-streets/markings, such as at a national park? Do you realize that SAR resources are precious and extremely limited? Do you realize that SAR operations can be quite dangerous, even for the well trained and seasoned professional?
I should point out that I also spend time on the water, and I take my Garmin inReach Mini with me, in the inReach Mini Dive Case. I have it clipped to my lifejacket with a carabiner clip, which I wear at all times during water activities. It should be pointed out that the Garmin inReach Mini is useless underwater, as electrical signals cannot be transmitted through water, which is something everyone should be aware of. The same goes likewise for any PLB.
When on the water, the inReach Mini likewise works best with a smartphone (iPhone, in my case), which I keep in a dive case, also clipped to my jacket.
Thankfully, I have never had to use my Garmin inReach Mini. I don't "hope" it never happens. I plan as much as possible, to avoid a SAR situation at all costs. I also look at it as a responsible thing to have, both for myself, and also in case someone nearby is in trouble.
Thank you! Exactly and agreed 100%. Even when out-and-about in public in the city, I can deploy it in a few seconds (either via the device itself or my Garmin watch), in addition to calling 911 for someone in distress, so the exact GPS coordinates of the incident are shared. This ensures that no delays occur with rescue on my end.
I am big on preparing and I look needing SAR operations as a huge systemic failure. It is true that all it takes is one mistake to end up in such a situation.
As I said, I have health conditions. Backpacking for days in the wilderness (no matter how prepared or "responsible" I may be) is not possible and is unsafe in my particular situation. I can go on day hikes though, generally, without issue with adequate preparation.
For people criticizing the use of such technology: Have you called 911 before for an incident where there are not a lot of addresses/cross-streets/markings, such as at a national park? Do you realize that SAR resources are precious and extremely limited? Do you realize that SAR operations can be quite dangerous, even for the well trained and seasoned professional?
I should point out that I also spend time on the water, and I take my Garmin inReach Mini with me, in the inReach Mini Dive Case. I have it clipped to my lifejacket with a carabiner clip, which I wear at all times during water activities. It should be pointed out that the Garmin inReach Mini is useless underwater, as electrical signals cannot be transmitted through water, which is something everyone should be aware of. The same goes likewise for any PLB.
When on the water, the inReach Mini likewise works best with a smartphone (iPhone, in my case), which I keep in a dive case, also clipped to my jacket.
Thankfully, I have never had to use my Garmin inReach Mini. I don't "hope" it never happens. I plan as much as possible, to avoid a SAR situation at all costs. I also look at it as a responsible thing to have, both for myself, and also in case someone nearby is in trouble.
If hiking on a trail even on the outskirts, EMS can have trouble locating you. I am from the Pacific Northwest, and I am quite hardy. You carry one so that you can be located in an emergency.
I'm sure it's just a difference in philosophy and, perhaps, age. And, yes, I've done a lot of hiking in the PNW although I don't live there. Just not something I'm interested in generally.
[deleted]
If you don't have a PLB, the least you should be doing is telling someone close to you where you are going to be parking, how long you expect to be out, when you plan to return and what your expected route is. If any of that information changes then try to update your contact person before you commit to a different route.
Go over what to do (for both you and your POC) if you don't report in within a certain time after your expected return.
Go over what to do (for both you and your POC) if you don't report in within a certain time after your expected return.
I'm confused. If you are talking about wilderness, I maybe agree. But then you talk about the AT.
If you are hiking on marked trails, you don't need to go drop $200 on electronics before you should feel safe going for a walk in the woods. You don't even need hiking boots, SPF 50 wicking t-shirts, or merino wool underwear.
If you are hiking on marked trails, you don't need to go drop $200 on electronics before you should feel safe going for a walk in the woods. You don't even need hiking boots, SPF 50 wicking t-shirts, or merino wool underwear.
People lose track of the AT and die fairly routinely. Here's one from last year: https://www.macon.com/news/state/georgia/article240395571.ht...
Hiking a marked trail isn't as risky as summiting Everest, but it's not like walking through Ikea either. PLBs are a touch pricy, but I'd at least carry a FRS radio.
Hiking a marked trail isn't as risky as summiting Everest, but it's not like walking through Ikea either. PLBs are a touch pricy, but I'd at least carry a FRS radio.
I'd at least carry a FRS radio.
Is FRS really useful for calling for help in the woods? You'd be lucky to get 1/2 mile of range, and you have to have someone nearby listening on your channel without privacy codes enabled. Do people even use FRS when hiking?
A whistle might have less range, but everyone within earshot will hear it.
A ham radio with a repeater list would likely be more useful than FRS... Or maybe GMRS, but those repeaters are less common.
Is FRS really useful for calling for help in the woods? You'd be lucky to get 1/2 mile of range, and you have to have someone nearby listening on your channel without privacy codes enabled. Do people even use FRS when hiking?
A whistle might have less range, but everyone within earshot will hear it.
A ham radio with a repeater list would likely be more useful than FRS... Or maybe GMRS, but those repeaters are less common.
People wonder off the marked trails, get disoriented, go further away from the trails. Next thing you know they’re missing for days. The problem is that the more inexperienced someone is, the more likely such a scenario is to happen.
I have a Garmin Inreach that I’ve started carrying with me more often. I carry it both for others and in case something crazy happens. That’s also why I typically carry extra water. I have never needed it so you could say it’s a waste, but someday I may save somebody’s life because I will be able to get immediate help if it’s needed.
You also don’t need any of the gear you mentioned, but it sure makes the walk more enjoyable :)
You also don’t need any of the gear you mentioned, but it sure makes the walk more enjoyable :)
Is Inreach something you pay a subscription for? Or do you get charged a (massive?) fee only upon use?
The Garmin inReach uses the Iridium satelite network. They offer two types of plans, Freedom and Annual [0], which you pay subscriptions for.
The "annual plans" allow you to save a little if you use your device every month of the year on a single plan. The "freedom plans" allow you to suspend your service, and let you hop between plans. You just pay for a month at a time at the plan level you select for that month.
[0] https://discover.garmin.com/en-US/inreach/personal/
The "annual plans" allow you to save a little if you use your device every month of the year on a single plan. The "freedom plans" allow you to suspend your service, and let you hop between plans. You just pay for a month at a time at the plan level you select for that month.
[0] https://discover.garmin.com/en-US/inreach/personal/
You can also send text messages with it. On longer walks I use it to meet up with people in town or get weather updates.
I forget all the terms but I think a rescue is covered/cheap if I call it for myself.
Device is $350 upfront and then the subscription fee. Can’t put a price on a life (although some try).
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/outdoor/inreach-2000-rescu...
I forget all the terms but I think a rescue is covered/cheap if I call it for myself.
Device is $350 upfront and then the subscription fee. Can’t put a price on a life (although some try).
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/outdoor/inreach-2000-rescu...
I checked and I think I’m paying an additional $25/yr for GEOS SAR, not sure if it’s the 50 or 100 but it covers $50k-$100k per incident if I trigger SOS.
https://www.geosresponse.com/assets/pdf/GEOS-SAR-BENEFIT-TER...
https://www.geosresponse.com/assets/pdf/GEOS-SAR-BENEFIT-TER...
The person in the article was on a marked trail, but some signs had burned in forest fires. There are similar events on the AT.
The Garmin mini/inreach are not cheap. Poor people hike too. It’s one of the few things you can do with low income.
The hiker texted a photo. Even better, since he had a smartphone, he could text his GPS coordinates from an app like Gaia. Not sure if there's a way to get lat/long from Apple or Google Maps.
A twist to how he came to conclusion: “Coincidentally, Kuo tracks wildfires using satellite images. A hobby that certainly came in handy.”
Someone attempted to recreate the method using shadows to verify the image. https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1382371967618097157?s=21
Actually, I believe that's Ben Kuo, the person named in the article who identified the location originally, recreating his own work.
Yep.
He also found the location of the Jedi Temple last year. ;)
https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1334947466442014720
He also found the location of the Jedi Temple last year. ;)
https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1334947466442014720
Good catch, I didn't realize that was Ben.
I'm super confused why he didn't just send his GPS cords. If he had enough reception to send a text with a photo, he should have been able to get GPS, right? At the very least the tower he was connected to should have given his approximate location, right?
More info from Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/socalhiking/comments/mqtxrg/video_o...
He had GPS coords in photos turned off. He sent the photo before he got lost, then his phone died, then he realized his predicament. Yeah, hikers who know WTF they are doing generally don't end up in the news like this. This is distressingly common on the 10,000+ ft peaks near Los Angeles, like these folks: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/hikers-survival-san....
He had GPS coords in photos turned off. He sent the photo before he got lost, then his phone died, then he realized his predicament. Yeah, hikers who know WTF they are doing generally don't end up in the news like this. This is distressingly common on the 10,000+ ft peaks near Los Angeles, like these folks: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/hikers-survival-san....
Wow, that article is something else. As an avid hiker/mountain biker, I cannot imagine going unprepared into the woods in the best of conditions, let alone in blizzard conditions. The fact that they only had a sleeping bag and an American flag to keep warm is so stupid it’s beyond belief.
All to plant an American flag on the top of a mountain. I truly hope the hiker didn’t actually lose any fingers or toes but I do hope they were made to reimburse SAR cost and fined for littering.
All to plant an American flag on the top of a mountain. I truly hope the hiker didn’t actually lose any fingers or toes but I do hope they were made to reimburse SAR cost and fined for littering.
Yeah, they were even urged by some experienced hikers (who had microspikes etc.) to turn around near the trailhead due to treacherous conditions. Serious contenders for outdoors Darwin award.
I think this is a good example of the Dunning Kruger Effect -- however poorly it matches with what the original article proved -- of "when you're a beginner, you don't realize how much of a beginner you are."
A non-expert climber figures a tough hike is basically like any other hike they've been on, only a little harder. They don't recognize how large the gulf is between a tough hike up a mountain and a treacherous life-or-death situation.
A non-expert climber figures a tough hike is basically like any other hike they've been on, only a little harder. They don't recognize how large the gulf is between a tough hike up a mountain and a treacherous life-or-death situation.
Happens a lot in Scotland, fortunately the volunteer mountain rescue teams here are excellent. An example:
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/2014978/...
Edit: There are ~20 deaths per year on Scottish mountains
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/2014978/...
Edit: There are ~20 deaths per year on Scottish mountains
Getting coordinates from towers doesn't work the way most people think it does.
First, there are still many many areas in the US where your phone will only be able to get a reliable signal to one tower, and those areas also happen to correlate well with areas that people like to go for outdoor recreation.
Second, you have to have somebody involved that knows the right specific questions to ask, and you have to have a representative at the phone company that's not a fleshy automaton. Search and rescue efforts tend to be coordinated by local law enforcement (usually sheriffs or park services), and training varies a lot. So, for practical purposes, this information is often not available.
Third, the information you get back requires some interpretation. It's not like the phone company sends back a map with a nice circle on it; you get some values back from one or more radios at one or more locations (possibly with or without orientations for the radios, and possibly that information is current and reliable or not). Then you have to plot those values, and then you have to take into account fun little quirks of physics, like the part where canyons of some kinds of rock can bounce a signal really well and cause somebody to be closer to the tower than the data would suggest. Other formations act like big reflectors.
Zero of the searches that I have been on have included helpful information from cell towers.
First, there are still many many areas in the US where your phone will only be able to get a reliable signal to one tower, and those areas also happen to correlate well with areas that people like to go for outdoor recreation.
Second, you have to have somebody involved that knows the right specific questions to ask, and you have to have a representative at the phone company that's not a fleshy automaton. Search and rescue efforts tend to be coordinated by local law enforcement (usually sheriffs or park services), and training varies a lot. So, for practical purposes, this information is often not available.
Third, the information you get back requires some interpretation. It's not like the phone company sends back a map with a nice circle on it; you get some values back from one or more radios at one or more locations (possibly with or without orientations for the radios, and possibly that information is current and reliable or not). Then you have to plot those values, and then you have to take into account fun little quirks of physics, like the part where canyons of some kinds of rock can bounce a signal really well and cause somebody to be closer to the tower than the data would suggest. Other formations act like big reflectors.
Zero of the searches that I have been on have included helpful information from cell towers.
I think all smartphones have a real GPS receiver, which means cell signal is not necessary at all to get location information; just a view of the sky, which is likely to be the case if you're lost outside.
They use 'assisted GPS', which requires cell service for a reliable reading
Assisted GPS just helps with a faster initial acquisition. You can put your phone in airplane mode to test it out. It might be a little slower to acquire, but you'll get good accuracy.
That is not true, A-GPS just speeds up the time to fix by supplying ephemeral data via a sidechannel. It just takes longer to receive via GPS if it is out of date or you have moved position considerately since last fix
I have relied on gps with downloaded topo maps in areas where there is literally no cell reception. iPhone X using AllTrails fwiw, I feel like it must have a real gps radio packed in there somewhere.
Indeed it does have a true GPS satelite receiver. Actually, the iPhones are quite accurate.
The iPhone 12 utilizes the GLONASS, Galileo, QZSS, and BeiDou constellations. Utilizing more satellites means determining location more quickly and returns better accuracy especially in marginal environments.
The iPhone 12 utilizes the GLONASS, Galileo, QZSS, and BeiDou constellations. Utilizing more satellites means determining location more quickly and returns better accuracy especially in marginal environments.
Have you ever used Garmin back in the day, or a USB GPS receiver? It can take a minute or so to get enough initial information to deduce a location at a low datarate. AGPS gets some or all of that information (I'm not sure) from another source, usually a cell phone network so that first location is deduced much faster. Modern phones have GPS receivers, but use AGPS. If a modern phone has no network signal, it will still get a GPS signal, it will just take longer to get the first location.
Not to be confused with other technologies such as skyhook [2], which was used in iPhone 1 and other older devices to fuse radio signal strength, known wifi hotspot locations, etc as a kind of pseudo-GPS. It was only relevant for a few years.
Wikipedia [1] has a nice short explanation.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GNSS
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_Wireless
Not to be confused with other technologies such as skyhook [2], which was used in iPhone 1 and other older devices to fuse radio signal strength, known wifi hotspot locations, etc as a kind of pseudo-GPS. It was only relevant for a few years.
Wikipedia [1] has a nice short explanation.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GNSS
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_Wireless
However, without cell service, they fall back to the sky, and the result is usually good to within a few tens of meters.
The downside is that it can take much longer to acquire a fix.
The downside is that it can take much longer to acquire a fix.
The picture was sent before he went missing. It wasn't an SOS, he was simply sending a picture to his friend.
From the TFA: "The hiker, 46-year-old Rene Compean, sent a photo to a friend before becoming lost"
From the TFA: "The hiker, 46-year-old Rene Compean, sent a photo to a friend before becoming lost"
My understanding is that he _did_ communicate to his friend that he was lost and his battery was dying https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1382381870134951938/phot....
He needs a better phone. It's a potato quality photo. A better phone might have had him found sooner.
I don't know how to get my gps coords on my phone.
I am the developer of FindMeSAR (https://findmesar.com) which is mentioned here in the comments. The first time you open this web page your device must be online. The code is saved in a special part of your browser's memory. This web page (aka web app) will then work offline. This is done with service worker coding plus appcache coding as a fall back.
If you are a bit skeptical that a web page can work offline, just go ahead and try it.
There is an icon you can save on your screen and a 'Tips' button with more information.
Finally, it turns out that if you ever need to call for help with your cell phone there are some things you should know in order to have the best chance of reaching 911 or anyone else. After reading through a whole pile of documents on the FCC website I put my findings into 4 PDF reports. The end of each report has links to the other reports.
Open PDF: https://findmesar.com/p/pdf/smart_way_call_911_with_cell_pho...
If you are a bit skeptical that a web page can work offline, just go ahead and try it.
There is an icon you can save on your screen and a 'Tips' button with more information.
Finally, it turns out that if you ever need to call for help with your cell phone there are some things you should know in order to have the best chance of reaching 911 or anyone else. After reading through a whole pile of documents on the FCC website I put my findings into 4 PDF reports. The end of each report has links to the other reports.
Open PDF: https://findmesar.com/p/pdf/smart_way_call_911_with_cell_pho...
Most messaging apps (iMessage, Whatsapp, maybe others) have a "send my current location" option.
I have had this site bookmarked on my phone for years. Luckily I’ve never had to use it! When you allow the website to get your location, it shows your gps coordinates and accuracy.
https://findmesar.com/
It wouldn’t work in the case when you have cell service but no data.
https://findmesar.com/
It wouldn’t work in the case when you have cell service but no data.
> It wouldn’t work in the case when you have cell service but no data.
Better to have an app to do it locally, I think the odds are high that when you would need something like this you probably won't have an internet connection.
Better to have an app to do it locally, I think the odds are high that when you would need something like this you probably won't have an internet connection.
This one is pretty cool. It basically gathers your location (and battery level) and composes an SMS for you to send to 911 or your friend.
https://www.backcountrysos.com/
https://www.backcountrysos.com/
In my experience I have data when I have enough service to send a text or make a call. I’m sure there are edge cases however.
Here's another one that works similarly helping you find your location and send it to someone, but it also allows a rescuer or anyone else to create an automated request for your location which you can provide in an easy way.
https://yourlo.ca/tion
https://yourlo.ca/tion
Me neither. Should be found in General settings on iPhone, rather than via Google Maps (seems to be the only way, from what I can tell?)
The compass app has your coordinates. You can also share your current location with other iMessage users (maybe SMS users, not sure) if you have location sharing enabled, it can be enabled to send your coordinates to other people (I think the options are permanent, 24 hours, and 1 hour).
The trouble with the Compass app is that it's infrequently used, so will usually be automatically offloaded and will need to be downloaded again when you're lost with limited internet access.
if that isn't some microoptimization. how much space can a compass app waste compared to your average bloated app?
As far as I remember this feature needs to be activated by the user. It also applies to other rarely used apps (the compass app is not treated differently) and only happens once the phone is low on storage.
I just opened the compass app on my iPhone and I don't see any coordinates there. I'm on 13.7; maybe this is a recent change to the app?
The info I have in a non-sharable google doc is as follows:
iPhone GPS Location (4s and recent)
This document will give you a step by step procedure to retrieve the GPS location of a lost person using the “Compass” tool. In order to use this tool, the iPhone owner must enable some privacy settings which may be “on” by default. If you cannot get the GPS coordinates from Compass, go to the “Troubleshooting” section.
Asking for GPS Coordinates First ask the lost person to launch the compass application on their iPhone.
If the person does not know what it is, provide them the following instruction: Put a single finger in the middle of the phone’s screen and swipe down all in one move. This will bring out the “Spotlight Search” tool.
Ask them to type “Compass”. This will bring up the “Compass” tool into view as seen below: Ask them to select the “Compass” application in order to launch it
Once launched, if the word “Calibrate” appears on the screen (as seen below), the user has to initialize the application. Let him know he needs to move and rotate the phone until calibration is done.
Once calibrated, the user should see the coordinates at the bottom of the screen. If the coordinates are not there, go to the troubleshooting section and restart this process from step 1.
Troubleshooting Be aware that only iPhone 4s and more recent are equipped with a GPS chipset. All older iPhone will not be able to provide you with GPS coordinates.
In order for the “Compass” application to provide the GPS coordinate, it needs to be authorized to communicate with the GPS component of the phone. To ensure this authorization is set, follow these steps:
Ask the person to launch their iPhone settings
From the main “Setting” page, have them select “Privacy”
From the “Privacy” section select “Location Services”.
Under the “Location Services” section, the “Location Services” setting should be “on” (or green) and the “Compass” entry should report “While Using”.
iPhone GPS Location (4s and recent)
This document will give you a step by step procedure to retrieve the GPS location of a lost person using the “Compass” tool. In order to use this tool, the iPhone owner must enable some privacy settings which may be “on” by default. If you cannot get the GPS coordinates from Compass, go to the “Troubleshooting” section.
Asking for GPS Coordinates First ask the lost person to launch the compass application on their iPhone.
If the person does not know what it is, provide them the following instruction: Put a single finger in the middle of the phone’s screen and swipe down all in one move. This will bring out the “Spotlight Search” tool.
Ask them to type “Compass”. This will bring up the “Compass” tool into view as seen below: Ask them to select the “Compass” application in order to launch it
Once launched, if the word “Calibrate” appears on the screen (as seen below), the user has to initialize the application. Let him know he needs to move and rotate the phone until calibration is done.
Once calibrated, the user should see the coordinates at the bottom of the screen. If the coordinates are not there, go to the troubleshooting section and restart this process from step 1.
Troubleshooting Be aware that only iPhone 4s and more recent are equipped with a GPS chipset. All older iPhone will not be able to provide you with GPS coordinates.
In order for the “Compass” application to provide the GPS coordinate, it needs to be authorized to communicate with the GPS component of the phone. To ensure this authorization is set, follow these steps:
Ask the person to launch their iPhone settings
From the main “Setting” page, have them select “Privacy”
From the “Privacy” section select “Location Services”.
Under the “Location Services” section, the “Location Services” setting should be “on” (or green) and the “Compass” entry should report “While Using”.
A quick google search suggests that the feature has been around since at least iOS 11 (and I'm confident much earlier, but that was the version I got results for on the first page of my google search, I'm not digging deeper), but you need location services turned on. Check that, then disable again if you don't want location services on by default.
Open Maps, long click your location to drop a marker. The “marked location” panel shows your coordinates. Drag it towards the top of the screen to see it
Use the built-in Compass app.
On iOS, you can scroll up on your photo when looking at it in Photos, and it should show you a location if it's available.
This. Most phones make simple tasks like reading your lat/lon a PITA. You have to download a spammy 25MB ad-filled app that wants you to subscribe to some casino newsletter before you can read out your coordinates.
Personally I would do it with Termux and Python, but non-coders would have trouble using that.
Hell on the latest version of Android I can't even read my battery percentage without typing in some code (the latest update removed the battery % from the status bar). Everything has gone downhill.
Personally I would do it with Termux and Python, but non-coders would have trouble using that.
Hell on the latest version of Android I can't even read my battery percentage without typing in some code (the latest update removed the battery % from the status bar). Everything has gone downhill.
> 25MB ad-filled app
I really started noticing this since starting to use F-Droid, for a lot of simple apps in the Google Play Store, you can get the same functionality, with zero ads and a much smaller bundle size in F-Droid.
For example this app from F-Droid, which shows your GPS location & coordinates, weighs in at _48KiB_! https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.borneq.heregpslocation/ (disclaimer: I have not tried the app, it was just the first result that came up from a search).
It's pretty cool to see that yes, it's perfectly possible to build lightweight Android apps; and it's really a question of what you put in the bundle.
I really started noticing this since starting to use F-Droid, for a lot of simple apps in the Google Play Store, you can get the same functionality, with zero ads and a much smaller bundle size in F-Droid.
For example this app from F-Droid, which shows your GPS location & coordinates, weighs in at _48KiB_! https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.borneq.heregpslocation/ (disclaimer: I have not tried the app, it was just the first result that came up from a search).
It's pretty cool to see that yes, it's perfectly possible to build lightweight Android apps; and it's really a question of what you put in the bundle.
You can find a few open-source Android "GPS test" apps on GitHub, and ditto for other "sensor test" apps.
(I've always thought the terminology was a little confusing/imprecise, since I wouldn't consider these apps to be "tests", but rather simply the UI of a GPS receiver. Then again, when I hear "GPS" I think of a receiver-only, i.e. a device that just tells you your current lat/lon/etc. position, whereas I guess what most people consider a "GPS app" would more precisely be termed a "GPS navigation/map".)
(I've always thought the terminology was a little confusing/imprecise, since I wouldn't consider these apps to be "tests", but rather simply the UI of a GPS receiver. Then again, when I hear "GPS" I think of a receiver-only, i.e. a device that just tells you your current lat/lon/etc. position, whereas I guess what most people consider a "GPS app" would more precisely be termed a "GPS navigation/map".)
On almost every phone you can turn showing battery percentage back on if you want it. What OEM are you using?
Install one one of these:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eclipsim.g...
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.gp...
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eclipsim.g...
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.gp...
Note that the second one is open-source (https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest) while the first one is adware.
Sending a screenshot of your location marker in a Maps app would work well too. But I guess taking screenshots is probably also a power-user feature that many people may not be familiar with...
Telegram and other chat apps support sending your location to someone.
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What 3 words is also well known and used by emergency services in the UK for example.
W3W is not popular in the US or Canada generally, in large part because it's a proprietary system and so it's not easy to integrate it into the systems that agencies already use for incident management.
Only according to their PR department. I've never seen any independent report of their actual prevalence in emergency service use.
As others have said, it's proprietary, and I don't want to see a private company becoming a gatekeeper to such an important function. Open standards are available. Google Maps provides Plus Codes, for example, and pretty much all Android users have that without having to install an additional app.
As others have said, it's proprietary, and I don't want to see a private company becoming a gatekeeper to such an important function. Open standards are available. Google Maps provides Plus Codes, for example, and pretty much all Android users have that without having to install an additional app.
A few months ago I phoned Essex Police (via 999) to report a dangerous obstruction on a major road. Because it was part of the network of roundabouts and slip roads near Stansted Airport, I didn't know the exact name of that road- I could only say that it was the slip-road onto the A120. The 999 operator advised me to use W3W to give the exact location.
Now, this is only one anecdote, and maybe I just happened to get the one operator who had swallowed the what3words PR line- but at least some British emergency services are telling callers to use it.
Now, this is only one anecdote, and maybe I just happened to get the one operator who had swallowed the what3words PR line- but at least some British emergency services are telling callers to use it.
2nd anecdotal - I've reported several issues such as debris in the carriageway to the South Wales Police via Facebook Messenger.
(Not urgent enough to tie up a 999 operator, and it's faster to pull in somewhere and message, than ring and report via 101.)
They've been happy with location given by w3w.
(Not urgent enough to tie up a 999 operator, and it's faster to pull in somewhere and message, than ring and report via 101.)
They've been happy with location given by w3w.
> They've been happy with location given by w3w.
I'm sure they would be. I'm not doubting that they'll be able to figure it out. Rather, I'm interested to know what they prefer.
I'm sure they would be. I'm not doubting that they'll be able to figure it out. Rather, I'm interested to know what they prefer.
Every US public safety agency or SAR group I know of in the US prefers regular latitude and longitude or UTM instead of a commercial apps like that. It's easy enough to get your Lat/Lon or UTM on your phone and you don't even need a special app.
If someone's coordinates don't come through automatically with the 911 call, the dispatcher or person running the search can walk them through finding their location if the person doesn't know how to do it.
If someone's coordinates don't come through automatically with the 911 call, the dispatcher or person running the search can walk them through finding their location if the person doesn't know how to do it.
Even worse the gps coordinates should have been in the picture meta data
Possibly. Sometimes that gets stripped out when you try to send it. But yes, in theory it may have been in the photo's metadata too.
Most messaging apps and other social media platforms strip the metadata for privacy reasons.
true but not quite. They strip it. Store the original and the meta data in their own database (because data on people is what gives them value) then they serve the stripped down quality one.
Are you sure it's not stripped out on the client before anything is sent to the server?
It would actually be really interesting to see a list of which apps strip metadata early on the client side vs. which retain it on their server and merely strip data from what is shared to other users...
It would actually be really interesting to see a list of which apps strip metadata early on the client side vs. which retain it on their server and merely strip data from what is shared to other users...
It'd be hard or impossible to distinguish which ones strip it on the backend and discard the original image and EXIF data vs. ones who retain some of the EXIF data in some way. Just because they don't strip it on the client doesn't necessarily imply they're storing the metadata on the backend. (It just leaves the possibility open.)
Use a phone that supports removable media.
Unless they're willfully doing something illegal, when you ask for your data under GDPR you should be able to see if they kept the original images or EXIF metadata, or if they discarded it.
Of course I'm totally ready to accept that most of those companies just lie and hide some of the data they gather on their users.
Of course I'm totally ready to accept that most of those companies just lie and hide some of the data they gather on their users.
Are you seriously asking this question?? You think he was lost, but had a working phone with network connection??
It's fun to think that identifying the location from the picture did it, but actually law enforcement can easily get location history from the cell phone provider for any subscriber.
I thik if you are a hiker you should bring a regular map and a compass just in case this ever happens to you.
When you're traveling off trail, it's not enough to simply have a map & compass... You need to learn how to interpret a topographic map, and recognize the terrain around you. That takes time & effort.
It's a very useful skill, and worth learning if you're going outdoors. But it's not as simple as looking at road maps and reading street signs.
Coincidentally, there is a great Sierra Club program in Los Angeles & Orange County that teaches off-trail navigation (among other skills)... It's called the Wilderness Travel Course, and it's great fun. I believe the Mountaineers in the PNW also teach those skills as part of their leadership program.
It's a very useful skill, and worth learning if you're going outdoors. But it's not as simple as looking at road maps and reading street signs.
Coincidentally, there is a great Sierra Club program in Los Angeles & Orange County that teaches off-trail navigation (among other skills)... It's called the Wilderness Travel Course, and it's great fun. I believe the Mountaineers in the PNW also teach those skills as part of their leadership program.
If someone wants to get idea of how hard it can be, without leaving house ...
Playing Death Stranding comes close.
Obviously game has realtime location/map, with isometric/topographic view also available, which makes it much easier than it would be in real world - reading off a paper map and guestimating where on that map you might be.
So basically try to check map and plan the route (e.g. reach a river/canyon/house/junction and then go left) ahead, and then either don't check the map (because it shows exactly where you are), or have a screenshot of it from before you left one of drop locations.
Playing Death Stranding comes close.
Obviously game has realtime location/map, with isometric/topographic view also available, which makes it much easier than it would be in real world - reading off a paper map and guestimating where on that map you might be.
So basically try to check map and plan the route (e.g. reach a river/canyon/house/junction and then go left) ahead, and then either don't check the map (because it shows exactly where you are), or have a screenshot of it from before you left one of drop locations.
"You need to learn how to interpret a topographic map, and recognize the terrain around you. That takes time & effort."
And you can still make mistakes that throw off your navigation. In the past, I participated in a sport that involved navigating through terrain for up to 24 hours (through the night) looking for targets. The compass work was never much of an issue (more a process), but making decisions based on the terrain was - is that the third gully since we left the spur or the fourth? And issues typically compound.
And you can still make mistakes that throw off your navigation. In the past, I participated in a sport that involved navigating through terrain for up to 24 hours (through the night) looking for targets. The compass work was never much of an issue (more a process), but making decisions based on the terrain was - is that the third gully since we left the spur or the fourth? And issues typically compound.
> issues typically compound
Nobody appreciates the rapidity and magnitude with which this happens until they’ve experienced it. It’s a very good experience to have so you can recognize it and hopefully stop the momentum of failure.
Nobody appreciates the rapidity and magnitude with which this happens until they’ve experienced it. It’s a very good experience to have so you can recognize it and hopefully stop the momentum of failure.
Definitely. In one example, we were following a bearing and counting gullies. It was hard to tell what would or wouldn't constitute a gully relative to our map contours. We ended up several hundred metres off course, on the wrong side of a ridge, and a target that should've taken 20 minutes to reach took 90 minutes. That was the Australasian Championship, so serious terrain, and you burn energy wandering around trying to work out where you went wrong.
I thought it was assumed in GP that one should also know how to use said tools and therefore found myself nodding. But yeah, learning how to triangulate your position on a map and read terrain should be a requirement for anyone going outdoors, long before buying a Garmin inreach. The inreach is for severe endgame mode, it’s not to be regarded as a tool that lets you be “outdoorsy” without survival and navigation skills.
I use Google Location Sharing to continuously share my location with a few friends. It's quite nice. Makes planning easier. Also, maybe it'll help with this stuff haha.
Did you notice it started to work worse over last ~2 years?
I shared problems in another comment here - TL;DR: worked seemingly good some 3+ years ago, started being flaky before covid, and seems much worse since covid.
So even if remote area was covered with cellular network, I would not rely on location sharing to show where I am not even where I was.
I shared problems in another comment here - TL;DR: worked seemingly good some 3+ years ago, started being flaky before covid, and seems much worse since covid.
So even if remote area was covered with cellular network, I would not rely on location sharing to show where I am not even where I was.
It seems to be working just the same as before. Maybe it's interacting poorly with a phone feature of yours like Battery Saver or something? I also think my Pixel 5 is like worse at a few of these things than my Pixel 2 so who knows.
That stuff might be part. Though in some combinations the phone (and battery saving settings or such) haven't changed.
And although on one hand going from being at same place for hours if not days (home during covid), and then in just 10-15min reaching another place without any or with really bad cellular reception could be messing with optimizations of location sharing.
I recall few situations where both wife and I were next to each other, both phones running google maps at the moment, each hitting on refreshing/retrying getting the other ones location - and thing still showing us as currently offline.
And although on one hand going from being at same place for hours if not days (home during covid), and then in just 10-15min reaching another place without any or with really bad cellular reception could be messing with optimizations of location sharing.
I recall few situations where both wife and I were next to each other, both phones running google maps at the moment, each hitting on refreshing/retrying getting the other ones location - and thing still showing us as currently offline.
Huh, I haven't seen that happen. That sucks, man.
At some point personal/family emergency meant that instead of "regular" 1800km of both wife and myself driving across Europe - I was about to drive that on my own, all in one go/day. And then few days later back.
To ease her mind - I turned on family/emergency location sharing in Google Maps.
Afterward we realized it's supper convinient way to avoid those "How long before you (and one of kids that either one of us would pick up) are home?" calls.
Although starting shortly before Covid the functionality seems to have taken a nose dive. Like randomly showing one of us is in different city (e.g. Amsterdam vs Rotterdam), or now during Covid often saying "Offline, along with last known location from 1h ago (which tends to be home) and what was battery level at the time".
Actually it seems like some engineer (pre covid) though of optimizing refresh time for Google Maps location sharing based on how much it changes over some recent time.
And now combination of WFH meaning it's same place for majority of the day and that TTL being high, and literally all grocery stores we go to having no cellphone signal (I mean not even SMS can make it) putting us in edge of an edge case.
To ease her mind - I turned on family/emergency location sharing in Google Maps.
Afterward we realized it's supper convinient way to avoid those "How long before you (and one of kids that either one of us would pick up) are home?" calls.
Although starting shortly before Covid the functionality seems to have taken a nose dive. Like randomly showing one of us is in different city (e.g. Amsterdam vs Rotterdam), or now during Covid often saying "Offline, along with last known location from 1h ago (which tends to be home) and what was battery level at the time".
Actually it seems like some engineer (pre covid) though of optimizing refresh time for Google Maps location sharing based on how much it changes over some recent time.
And now combination of WFH meaning it's same place for majority of the day and that TTL being high, and literally all grocery stores we go to having no cellphone signal (I mean not even SMS can make it) putting us in edge of an edge case.
Google has been really tightening the strings on background execution. Maybe double check that Maps and Play Services are allowed unlimited data access, and exempted from battery savings (if you have that enabled).
I just don't get how smartphones still don't have a well designed way to quickly ask for help in cases like this, or even worse if you are not lost but injured. A big configurable button that when tapped tries to fix gps and send your position to the numbers you choose when the cell signal is strong enough. Going alone in the wild is amazing but can be dangerous even for the expert.
The 911 system in the US is slowly modernizing and more and more agencies support E911 and NG911 capabilities.
Additionally both Android and iOS support location sharing with dispatch centers and more and more jurisdictions across the country are capable of receiving that info. So, we're getting there.
https://www.blog.google/products/android/expanding-emergency...
https://rapidsos.com/our-latest/google-and-rapidsos-partner/
https://rapidsos.com/our-latest/apples-ios-12-securely-and-a...
Additionally both Android and iOS support location sharing with dispatch centers and more and more jurisdictions across the country are capable of receiving that info. So, we're getting there.
https://www.blog.google/products/android/expanding-emergency...
https://rapidsos.com/our-latest/google-and-rapidsos-partner/
https://rapidsos.com/our-latest/apples-ios-12-securely-and-a...
I have set up a Macro using MacroDroid (Android App) that will respond with my location if an approved contact sends a certain phrase.
Because it uses SMS, I think it should work where signal is spotty.
You can also use the app to listen for certain Intents (like a button sequence on a smart watch) and perform the same location/sms action.
You can also use the app to listen for certain Intents (like a button sequence on a smart watch) and perform the same location/sms action.
Actually I just realized that from lock screen of my phone, tapping on emergency also shows "What's my location".
Besides GPS, it sadly also needs/uses internet connection and then shows street address.
Oh and last time our car died in some small town with unpronounceable German name - once I called insurance (with roadside assistance module), operator sent me SMS, shortened URL opened up web browser and page asked for permission to get GPS access, and 10 seconds later she had exact Lat/Long on her screen.
Besides GPS, it sadly also needs/uses internet connection and then shows street address.
Oh and last time our car died in some small town with unpronounceable German name - once I called insurance (with roadside assistance module), operator sent me SMS, shortened URL opened up web browser and page asked for permission to get GPS access, and 10 seconds later she had exact Lat/Long on her screen.
Here is a service that lets you request anyone's location like the insurance operator did for you. Super easy and handy when you're trying to find someone who's not able to find their coordinates on their phone themselves.
https://yourlo.ca/tion
https://yourlo.ca/tion
Hah, cute URL, but for non-technical users they'll wonder where to put the dot and slash (or even why it needs seemingly random characters there)
When del.icio.us was around, after a while I wondered where the first . needed to be.
Having the site be yourlocation.com or whatsmylocation.com would be a lot better.
When del.icio.us was around, after a while I wondered where the first . needed to be.
Having the site be yourlocation.com or whatsmylocation.com would be a lot better.
Agreed. It's definitely something you should bookmark or add as an icon on your phone.
Another neat app is Backcountry SOS which is nice because it gathers your location and status and doesn't require an internet connection. It generates a text message you can send to 911 or anyone else.
https://www.backcountrysos.com/
Generally, you may be able to get an SMS out in an area with marginal cellphone coverage even when voice doesn't work. Turn on voice roaming for better results.
Another neat app is Backcountry SOS which is nice because it gathers your location and status and doesn't require an internet connection. It generates a text message you can send to 911 or anyone else.
https://www.backcountrysos.com/
Generally, you may be able to get an SMS out in an area with marginal cellphone coverage even when voice doesn't work. Turn on voice roaming for better results.
It exists on iOS: https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT208076
Though honestly not the most obvious or accessible thing. Most people would probably just call the emergency number directly instead of using the convoluted button combination.
"You can also add emergency contacts. After an emergency call has ended, your iPhone will alert your emergency contacts with a text message, unless you choose to cancel this option. Your iPhone sends them your current location, and, for a period of time after you enter SOS mode, it sends updates to your emergency contacts when your location changes."
Though honestly not the most obvious or accessible thing. Most people would probably just call the emergency number directly instead of using the convoluted button combination.
"You can also add emergency contacts. After an emergency call has ended, your iPhone will alert your emergency contacts with a text message, unless you choose to cancel this option. Your iPhone sends them your current location, and, for a period of time after you enter SOS mode, it sends updates to your emergency contacts when your location changes."
Thanks, for the correction, well done Apple. After further research turns out that I was wrong also about Android https://support.google.com/android/answer/9319337
Also if you call 911, the SOS contacts are also notified.
Found that out when my daughter got ahold of her dozing grandmothers phone while myself and her grandfather were running errands.
Found that out when my daughter got ahold of her dozing grandmothers phone while myself and her grandfather were running errands.
Some type of dead-man's switch would be nice - "send my last location if my battery dies."
That would be nice! There are several ways for others to get your last known location even long after your battery has died, but all the ones I know of require you to continuously track your location, which drains battery too fast for use on longer hikes...
For example, you can use "Share My Location" in Google maps. If your phone dies, the person you shared to can still see what your last location was. But since it's continually sharing your location the whole time, it drains the battery a lot. Strava's activity tracker has a similar feature, but I think only available while you're actively recording a GPS tracklog.
For example, you can use "Share My Location" in Google maps. If your phone dies, the person you shared to can still see what your last location was. But since it's continually sharing your location the whole time, it drains the battery a lot. Strava's activity tracker has a similar feature, but I think only available while you're actively recording a GPS tracklog.
If it sends the location at 5% battery power it's close enough to be in the vicinity and doesn't continuously drain the battery.
>you can use "Share My Location" in Google maps ... it's continually sharing your location the whole time, it drains the battery a lot
I use this with my GF, the impact on battery life is unnoticeable under normal conditions (i.e. compared to other stuff that you normally do on a phone). If you're aiming for multiple days of standby, with radios off and little screen-on time, then you'll obviously notice the drain.
I use this with my GF, the impact on battery life is unnoticeable under normal conditions (i.e. compared to other stuff that you normally do on a phone). If you're aiming for multiple days of standby, with radios off and little screen-on time, then you'll obviously notice the drain.
I don't use "share my location" in google maps, but I do use "my timeline", which is basically the same data, and timestreamed. I can't say I've noticed any significant battery drain from it, and I can't imagine sharing that costing anything more on the client end.
On a related note, I played geoguessr for the first time in a while ... and it's now a partly premium service with a huge community. I'm kinda impressed by the model they figured out.
And also related: If you've got the android app MacroDroid (and presumably Tasker and others) you can set up an SMS auto-responder that will send your GPS coords. You can make it respond to a pre-approved contact who sends a pre-approved phrase. It means you're not constantly sending out location data, but can be reached hands-free if needed. And you should be able to sneak in an SMS even when service is unreliable.
And also related: If you've got the android app MacroDroid (and presumably Tasker and others) you can set up an SMS auto-responder that will send your GPS coords. You can make it respond to a pre-approved contact who sends a pre-approved phrase. It means you're not constantly sending out location data, but can be reached hands-free if needed. And you should be able to sneak in an SMS even when service is unreliable.
The most popular streamer on Twitch plays pretty frequently, which I think has done a lot for the Geoguessr community.
Using google maps and Tasker one can interlace the GPS coordinates into a google maps link, which I found easier for those that might be unfamiliar.
The MacroDroid SMSs get sent out as:
maps.google.com/maps?q=[coordinates]
There's probably some value in a lightweight standalone app that does this alone.
There's probably some value in a lightweight standalone app that does this alone.
Last year I had reason to search for a missing walker from my remote home. I went to all the satellite image sites google could find and got nothing - months out of date pictures, too low resolution to be of use. It was a long shot but close enough to be imaginable that there might be a “put credit card in, get high res photo of area from the last flyover”. Lo and behold a few weeks later just such a service appeared on HN.
The person was eventually found by people in the area, and had died on a path in an open field, (sudden collapse and no chance to have used their phone to call anyone) so being out of tree cover etc. might plausibly have been found by a good clear overhead image. Probably still too small for a non-military satellite image, maybe a drone flyover.
I do often wonder what it would take for humans to actually save people Thunderbirds style. We’re getting closer and closer to ubiquitous surveillance, but when you look at the nutty putty cave incident or the Thai schoolchildren in the cave, locations were known there was just no way to blast the rock without crushing the people, and rescue or failure came down to human effort. Very little future tech would have made either rescue attempt enormously easier, would it? To get to people trapped under rock quickly you need to move or melt a lot of rock and you can’t blast or drill casually because of the risk to the people. That leaves slow or low-energy rescue which is slow and limited in what it can try.
How are today’s emergency services doing compared to a platonic ideal emergency service which can find and save anyone anywhere on earth from any trouble they are in, Superman style? Are we almost as good as it’s possible to be (but not evenly distributed), or nowhere near?
The person was eventually found by people in the area, and had died on a path in an open field, (sudden collapse and no chance to have used their phone to call anyone) so being out of tree cover etc. might plausibly have been found by a good clear overhead image. Probably still too small for a non-military satellite image, maybe a drone flyover.
I do often wonder what it would take for humans to actually save people Thunderbirds style. We’re getting closer and closer to ubiquitous surveillance, but when you look at the nutty putty cave incident or the Thai schoolchildren in the cave, locations were known there was just no way to blast the rock without crushing the people, and rescue or failure came down to human effort. Very little future tech would have made either rescue attempt enormously easier, would it? To get to people trapped under rock quickly you need to move or melt a lot of rock and you can’t blast or drill casually because of the risk to the people. That leaves slow or low-energy rescue which is slow and limited in what it can try.
How are today’s emergency services doing compared to a platonic ideal emergency service which can find and save anyone anywhere on earth from any trouble they are in, Superman style? Are we almost as good as it’s possible to be (but not evenly distributed), or nowhere near?
Saw this yesterday and thought it was a coincidence.
Finding someone using intuition and suncalc.
https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2020/12/03/using-the-su...
Finding someone using intuition and suncalc.
https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2020/12/03/using-the-su...
For those interested, here are some readings about location and rescue and cellphones and the emergency dispatch system, etc. etc.
Cell Phones and SAR - Browser-based Location Apps https://wisarandgis.blogspot.com/2016/06/cell-phones-and-sar...
Reasons Why 911 Sometimes Cannot Find Cell Phones https://findmesar.com/p/pdf/reasons_why_911_cannot_find_cell...
The Smart Way To Use A Cell Phone To Contact 911 https://findmesar.com/p/pdf/smart_way_call_911_with_cell_pho...
Cell Phones and SAR - Browser-based Location Apps https://wisarandgis.blogspot.com/2016/06/cell-phones-and-sar...
Reasons Why 911 Sometimes Cannot Find Cell Phones https://findmesar.com/p/pdf/reasons_why_911_cannot_find_cell...
The Smart Way To Use A Cell Phone To Contact 911 https://findmesar.com/p/pdf/smart_way_call_911_with_cell_pho...
@jonah, thanks for posting. I'm the guy that wrote those PDFs. The #1 thing that suprised me in doing the research is that the standard 911 system as defined by the FCC does not get the caller's coordinates from their cell phone like Uber does.
Now with that said, there are a lot of 911 call centers that use RapidSOS or other add on technology that do get the caller's coordinates directly from the caller's phone.
Of course a person calling 911 has no way to know beforehand whether the 911 call center handling their call will be able to get their coordinates via technology. That is the reason I urge everyone to have some way to use their phone to get their coordinates and the equally important accuracy value. Use a compass app, use FindMeSAR (I am developer) or use something else. I don't care. Instead, the important point is that you use 'something instead of nothing'.
Now with that said, there are a lot of 911 call centers that use RapidSOS or other add on technology that do get the caller's coordinates directly from the caller's phone.
Of course a person calling 911 has no way to know beforehand whether the 911 call center handling their call will be able to get their coordinates via technology. That is the reason I urge everyone to have some way to use their phone to get their coordinates and the equally important accuracy value. Use a compass app, use FindMeSAR (I am developer) or use something else. I don't care. Instead, the important point is that you use 'something instead of nothing'.
My first thought would be to check the EXIF data for geolocation info. Did he mention whether that was there?