Ask HN: How to deal with ADHD without meds?
46 comments
I was diagnosed as a 30 year-old. Here are some things that might help.
* Accept it and be realistic about it. ADHD is a disorder. There is no cure. Don't expect it to go away or for you some system, drug or technique to reduce it to zero. There are no silver bullets
* Forgive yourself. Getting worked up about the disorder only causes more pain, anger and stress. You are not lazy.
* Address any other mental health problems that may be related to or caused by ADHD. I am still recovering from anxiety related to my ADHD.
* Medication is effective. If there is any reasonable route to trying it then do so. Some people report night and day differences.
* Routines help me a lot. A good routine becomes automatic. Think about some of the things in life that you do automatically and completely without thinking. Try to make a routine that serves your goals and the things you want to do. I prefer a routine that is the same every single day (including weekends) if possible.
* Your working memory is impaired. Do not try to remember anything. I always keep a notepad and pen next to my computer as a substitute for working memory.
* Distractions. Some are worse than others but people with ADHD are more susceptible. Find a way to reduce notifications, alerts (both auditory and visual). When you are focusing on something, try to remove anything else from your visual field. I have two monitors but I make sure that if I only need one window for the task at hand then the other monitor is showing the desktop.
* In the same way, if you want to be sure to remember something, keep it in your visual field. When I'm using my to do list software and I select a task, I put it as a small window in the top left of my screen (with all the other remaining tasks hidden of course!). If I get distracted I can simply look to the top left of my screen to remember what I was doing.
Knowing you have ADHD is a great first step. Improvement is possible, but it takes time (years, not weeks).
* Accept it and be realistic about it. ADHD is a disorder. There is no cure. Don't expect it to go away or for you some system, drug or technique to reduce it to zero. There are no silver bullets
* Forgive yourself. Getting worked up about the disorder only causes more pain, anger and stress. You are not lazy.
* Address any other mental health problems that may be related to or caused by ADHD. I am still recovering from anxiety related to my ADHD.
* Medication is effective. If there is any reasonable route to trying it then do so. Some people report night and day differences.
* Routines help me a lot. A good routine becomes automatic. Think about some of the things in life that you do automatically and completely without thinking. Try to make a routine that serves your goals and the things you want to do. I prefer a routine that is the same every single day (including weekends) if possible.
* Your working memory is impaired. Do not try to remember anything. I always keep a notepad and pen next to my computer as a substitute for working memory.
* Distractions. Some are worse than others but people with ADHD are more susceptible. Find a way to reduce notifications, alerts (both auditory and visual). When you are focusing on something, try to remove anything else from your visual field. I have two monitors but I make sure that if I only need one window for the task at hand then the other monitor is showing the desktop.
* In the same way, if you want to be sure to remember something, keep it in your visual field. When I'm using my to do list software and I select a task, I put it as a small window in the top left of my screen (with all the other remaining tasks hidden of course!). If I get distracted I can simply look to the top left of my screen to remember what I was doing.
Knowing you have ADHD is a great first step. Improvement is possible, but it takes time (years, not weeks).
Does cutting back on caffeine help you? Or does caffeine help?
I've never been a coffee drinker, but I drink one or two cups of tea a day. Maybe it helps a tiny bit, but I haven't really noticed.
this is really helpful and insightful, thankyou
1. Go run. Start with short distances, then build up. Exercise daily.
2. Eat healthy food - think plant-based. Stay away from sugar. Don't lean on caffeine.
3. Control your environment: sound, light, temperature adjust these until it feels right.
4. Stay away from toxic people who will take advantage of you. This might mean "family & friends".
5. Foster your own curiosity.
6. Your ability to focus, aptitude for pattern recognition, and empathy is not a disorder.
2. Eat healthy food - think plant-based. Stay away from sugar. Don't lean on caffeine.
3. Control your environment: sound, light, temperature adjust these until it feels right.
4. Stay away from toxic people who will take advantage of you. This might mean "family & friends".
5. Foster your own curiosity.
6. Your ability to focus, aptitude for pattern recognition, and empathy is not a disorder.
For me, it’s walking that I can do. My joints scream too loudly with any amount of running. Long cardio is excellent for obliterating sideline thoughts though. (Probably any amount of cardio, but an hour and a half walk or more really zaps the mind.)
Absolutely. A good walk (or run) is a great path to clarity and focus
Regular exercise seems to be key with my friends. Which means building up a set of exercise type things you like doing and finding groups of people who also like those things.
Start a journal. Track diet, lifestyle and ADHD issues.
Go looking for studies. Years ago, there were studies showing that nutritional supplements were more effective than meds to help kids calm down and focus.
IIRC, calcium and B vitamins were some of the recommended supplements. (Edit: don't take my word for that. Instead, use that as a jumping off point to find studies and track your own issues and draw your own conclusions about what works for you as an individual.)
Go looking for studies. Years ago, there were studies showing that nutritional supplements were more effective than meds to help kids calm down and focus.
IIRC, calcium and B vitamins were some of the recommended supplements. (Edit: don't take my word for that. Instead, use that as a jumping off point to find studies and track your own issues and draw your own conclusions about what works for you as an individual.)
You could try self medicating with nicotine.
Everything else I would write is covered by annie_muss, particularly acceptance and being realistic. I wasted years torturing myself with a cycle of thinking I should be able to push through it and focus if only I tried hard enough, failing and getting depressed, bludging, repeat.
Now that I’m medicated I’ve still got a strong aversion to trying that I have to deal with.
Everything else I would write is covered by annie_muss, particularly acceptance and being realistic. I wasted years torturing myself with a cycle of thinking I should be able to push through it and focus if only I tried hard enough, failing and getting depressed, bludging, repeat.
Now that I’m medicated I’ve still got a strong aversion to trying that I have to deal with.
Trouble staying awake? Try meth!
Please don’t recommend people develop expensive habits to dangerous addictive chemicals.
Please don’t recommend people develop expensive habits to dangerous addictive chemicals.
- Funny you should bring it up, meth is actually a rarely prescribed but very effective adhd medication. There are genuinely doctors and patients deciding that meth is preferable to untreated adhd. I didn’t recommend it because my experience with countries lacking adhd meds is they’re strict on drugs with harsh drug laws, which now that I’m thinking more about it isn’t necessarily OPs situation. OP if nicotine doesn’t do it for you and you’re not risking life in prison, maybe look in to meth. If it works out you’ve got risedotmoe to thank.
- Your analogy does nothing but trivialise adhd. Replace trouble staying awake with horrid sleeping disorder, put someone in OPs shoes where other medications aren’t available, and somehow meth can help? That person should absolutely do meth.
- Would be interested to see this info that’s convinced you that nicotine is so terrible that I’m “plain malicious” to recommend someone look in to it.
- the non nicotine and non meth ADHD medication that would be prescribed by OPs psychiatrist if it was an option in their country is addictive. Amphetamines are addictive. ADHD can make it near impossible to function in modern society. You can have some pretty severe down downsides to treatment before it isn’t worth it. If there was an effective downsideless treatment then that’s what we’d be using in countries with options. There isn’t so we make do.
- Expensive?
- Just to be clear, ADHD in the modern deep work rewarding economy is like missing a foot back when everyone was a subsistence farmer. Hell just basic existence things like keeping your car rego in date is rough. If god appeared and was all "I feel like being a dick today. I'm going to wave my wand and you either lose a foot or adhd meds never work for you again" I'd choose to lose the foot. I think most people who have experienced treated and untreated ADHD would. If OP posted saying "hey guys im going to lose my foot unless I do nicotine (or meth) what should I do?" would you call people saying to take the nicotine malicious?
- Your analogy does nothing but trivialise adhd. Replace trouble staying awake with horrid sleeping disorder, put someone in OPs shoes where other medications aren’t available, and somehow meth can help? That person should absolutely do meth.
- Would be interested to see this info that’s convinced you that nicotine is so terrible that I’m “plain malicious” to recommend someone look in to it.
- the non nicotine and non meth ADHD medication that would be prescribed by OPs psychiatrist if it was an option in their country is addictive. Amphetamines are addictive. ADHD can make it near impossible to function in modern society. You can have some pretty severe down downsides to treatment before it isn’t worth it. If there was an effective downsideless treatment then that’s what we’d be using in countries with options. There isn’t so we make do.
- Expensive?
- Just to be clear, ADHD in the modern deep work rewarding economy is like missing a foot back when everyone was a subsistence farmer. Hell just basic existence things like keeping your car rego in date is rough. If god appeared and was all "I feel like being a dick today. I'm going to wave my wand and you either lose a foot or adhd meds never work for you again" I'd choose to lose the foot. I think most people who have experienced treated and untreated ADHD would. If OP posted saying "hey guys im going to lose my foot unless I do nicotine (or meth) what should I do?" would you call people saying to take the nicotine malicious?
Is meth ever safe? I think Carheart says it’s one of those drugs that can’t be refined enough to be safe at any dose/use.
We're just problem solving here - the moral assessment of any given solution is each individual's choice to make, pal.
This mindset is awful. You don’t fix a problem by creating 5 more. This mindset creates bad code, kills people, and rots the planet.
I really can’t wrap my mind around someone suggesting a drug addiction (that leads to cancer) to remedy a mental disorder. It’s just plain malicious.
If somebody is opening their mind to help, you have a responsibility as someone of greater knowledge to steer them in the right direction, not take advantage of them.
I really can’t wrap my mind around someone suggesting a drug addiction (that leads to cancer) to remedy a mental disorder. It’s just plain malicious.
If somebody is opening their mind to help, you have a responsibility as someone of greater knowledge to steer them in the right direction, not take advantage of them.
Here's something that might be interesting to you: you can consume nicotine without smoking cigarettes or even inhalation, and in that context, the harms of nicotine are negligible.
Check out this cool write-up: https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine
Check out this cool write-up: https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine
That's the article I'd come across in the past that made me think of it as a possible adhd med.
I think one thing to keep in mind is that Gwern is evaluating it for much more minimal use than you would try to treat adhd with. Iirc he was using it to try to build an exercise habit. So the addiction risks are going to be much higher than what he portrays them as.
Still better than untreated adhd though.
I think one thing to keep in mind is that Gwern is evaluating it for much more minimal use than you would try to treat adhd with. Iirc he was using it to try to build an exercise habit. So the addiction risks are going to be much higher than what he portrays them as.
Still better than untreated adhd though.
Of course a measured amount of daily meth will probably save this person’s sanity but because we live in the world we do nobody can recommend it without fear. Fuck the authorities and just buy the medicine you need
I strongly advise against nicotine
Agreed. I've been doing this and trying to stop now - not easy!
If you are on meds it will greatly increase your heart rate and bood pressure, I feel more anxious and just not as clear headed on nicotine.
(Vape and tobacco free pouches)
Could you elaborate on your position?
I’m not sure why anyone would need to. Nicotine is a highly addictive poison. It’s horrible for your body. It would sooner make them sick before there’s any supposed “benefit”
Caffeine also helps.
I can't help directly as I am medicated, so naturally anything I do might be possible because of that.
However what did help me before diagnosis was this YouTube channel and trying out the techniques that clicked with me https://youtube.com/HowtoADHD
However what did help me before diagnosis was this YouTube channel and trying out the techniques that clicked with me https://youtube.com/HowtoADHD
I spent a large part of my adult life thus far avoiding treatment even though I live in the US where ADD treatment is readily available. I viewed it as a mind-over-matter kind of thing and it was ultimately a harmful view of maintaining my own mental health. The world shutting down last year really exacerbated my (in hindsight) very obvious ADD symptoms to the point where I found it difficult to do much of anything and I finally talked to a doctor about it. I was given a prescription for a low dose of adderall xr and it changed my life.
Knowing what I know now, I would honestly look at moving to a different country if professional/pharmaceutical treatment weren't available to me in my country. Alternatively, if an adjacent country to you has something available and you have the means to go get it, I would highly recommend pursuing it. Trying to manage symptoms with all the normal "exercise, eat well, supplements, etc" advice can work with focused attention, but the difference when you find the right combination/dose of medications in combination with those things is incredible.
Knowing what I know now, I would honestly look at moving to a different country if professional/pharmaceutical treatment weren't available to me in my country. Alternatively, if an adjacent country to you has something available and you have the means to go get it, I would highly recommend pursuing it. Trying to manage symptoms with all the normal "exercise, eat well, supplements, etc" advice can work with focused attention, but the difference when you find the right combination/dose of medications in combination with those things is incredible.
For supplements that might help: L-theanine combined with caffeine, Vitamin b12, l-tyrosine. Lacking energy? Get your vitamin D checked and take vitamin D (and take D with vitamine K2).
I can only really speak to the effectiveness of vitamins on focus, outside of supplements, meditation and cognitive behavioral therapy are on my list of things to do to try and help.
I can only really speak to the effectiveness of vitamins on focus, outside of supplements, meditation and cognitive behavioral therapy are on my list of things to do to try and help.
Try lifting, running or cycling.
How does that help?
https://www.google.com/search?q=adhd+running
https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adult-adhd-and-exercise
I'm not a doctor or an evolutionary biologist. However, in the context of humanity's development down through the ages, sitting indoors at a screen could be construed as unnatural.
The natural endorphin rush of heavy exercise is relaxing.
Some people need a chance to get let their energies out. Why not do it in a productive way?
Most people won't be worse off for trying.
https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adult-adhd-and-exercise
I'm not a doctor or an evolutionary biologist. However, in the context of humanity's development down through the ages, sitting indoors at a screen could be construed as unnatural.
The natural endorphin rush of heavy exercise is relaxing.
Some people need a chance to get let their energies out. Why not do it in a productive way?
Most people won't be worse off for trying.
Just an anecdote, but my wife, who typically wants me around, will kick me out of the house and force me to go to the gym. She claims I'm impossible to interact with if I haven't gotten enough exercise
Relevant reading:
“[The Real Happy Pill] provides further evidence to support the effectiveness of physical exercise, with the aid of additional neuroscientific evidence, as a support mechanism when coping with the stress and anxiety of everyday life. By engaging in regular physical exercise, Hansen states, you may even improve your cognitive functioning across your lifetime.”
I haven’t read it myself yet, but it sure seems like an interesting book.
https://www.studio3.org/post/book-review-the-real-happy-pill
“[The Real Happy Pill] provides further evidence to support the effectiveness of physical exercise, with the aid of additional neuroscientific evidence, as a support mechanism when coping with the stress and anxiety of everyday life. By engaging in regular physical exercise, Hansen states, you may even improve your cognitive functioning across your lifetime.”
I haven’t read it myself yet, but it sure seems like an interesting book.
https://www.studio3.org/post/book-review-the-real-happy-pill
I think this has become an HN meme at this point. Every mental health post has a reply ala “Just lift bro”.
mental health is definitely related to physical health. although it might not _cure_ your problems, the pros of being healthy vs the cons of a sedentary / not physically active lifestyle by itself outwieghs the other.
I don't think it's a meme, it's just that people seem to be realising it's beneficial as of late
I don't think it's a meme, it's just that people seem to be realising it's beneficial as of late
Better than the meme of someone saying they sometimes can't concentrate or suffer from some other extremely common problem, and hordes of people respond with, "you obviously have ADHD."
I suck at physical exercise. And I hate it. I still believe these people have a point though.
With that said – exercise is one tool in the toolbox. It can’t and shouldn’t be the only tool.
With that said – exercise is one tool in the toolbox. It can’t and shouldn’t be the only tool.
It's a cliché but it's true.
This sounds weird, but I found that giving up caffeine and switching to decaf had a big improvement in my symptoms.
This system might help you to become better organized:
https://christine.website/blog/gtd-on-paper-2021-06-13
https://christine.website/blog/gtd-on-paper-2021-06-13
Regular exercise and real quality healthy food (veggies, meat). Dropping stims (coffee, cigs, etc) and alcohol also helps.
Get meds. However you can. Chances are you can get reasonably pure methamphetamine online for a reasonable price.
One advice - coffee is only good for waking up, makes no chemical sense to drink it if you’re not feeling sleepy
What frameworks and systems can I follow to deal with my ADHD and function normally?