Ask HN: Why are there so many Python freelancers looking for work?
I had a look at the ask HN Freelancers page, and was stunned by the number of Python programmers looking for work. Any ideas why?
14 comments
Python is a victim of the language popularity churn, like most other things in life. Languages have trends, there are ones that are currently the hottest ones that are starting to wain and others that are out of vogue. Take for example Java, at one time Java was the language to be seen developing in. Java developers where the rock stars, Java on top actually lasted for a long time, when compared to other languages but it's sun has set now, it is now in the none of the hip kids are doing it camp. Now onto Python, it was one of the first crop of languages to try to supplant Java from the cool kid spot. That crop had limited success and the only place that python saw wide adoption was coupled with Dijango for web. The thing is PHP and Drupal also achieved success in this era which split the, we are the new cool kid market. A second crop of new languages came up this time Ruby, Scala et. al. They where more focused on the problem domain they targeted and incorporated newer development constructs, they became the new cool kids. Now Python had become the OK kid but it's shine had worn off, Then came along the shift from server to clients for the UI and everyone started building out rich UI's with Javascript, then Javascript became the darling and server side JavaScript run-times where built, Java was now decidedly uncool and Python is now out of mind and Ruby's shine has worn off. In the end with Python it did not achieve the success of Java or COBAL to provide for lots of jobs even when it is no longer the cool kid and the unfortunate reality of languages that burn their star quick is that the cool kids move on, so there are very few stuck in the middle. Ruby may have enough to support them as their popularity wains, PHP definitely will, Python has some dedicated fans and the market may reach an equilibrium but as for now, you are seeing the product of a lot of developers trained in the last gen, while the projects have moved on to the next trend.
Do you have solid numbers that confirm your claim that Python is becoming less popular?
This is a honest question, in my environment I see Python being adopted in various places now that is maturing.
BTW: it hasn't been a "new and hip" language for quite some time, version 1.0 was released in 1991 and 2.0 was released in 2000. The pure novelty-seekers left a long time ago.
This is a honest question, in my environment I see Python being adopted in various places now that is maturing.
BTW: it hasn't been a "new and hip" language for quite some time, version 1.0 was released in 1991 and 2.0 was released in 2000. The pure novelty-seekers left a long time ago.
In my opinion the best numbers come from TIOBE's index http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/paperinfo/tpci/Python.html but as you will see languages have large shifts in their popularity. Currently in 2011, Python has been shedding popularity at a fast clip, but it has done so before so it is not reliable to use it in support of the argument that Python is loosing popularity as the overall trend has been upward. The thing I would caution is that the original post was asking why so many job seekers with python where looking and my summation was that due to language popularity NEW development house may not be adoption Python. In reference to you seeing Python in your environment I would assume it is because you already have Python in your environment so language selection has been made and many times there is inertia within the environment that makes language replacement a bad value proposition. I fear I poorly worded my original post when I was basically trying to say that languages go through a life-cycle of popularity and you may be seeing the result of NEW development houses opting for what is popularity because they don't have language based technical debt to consider. As well over the lifetime of a language it will shed adopters for other more popular languages. My summation was in no way intended as a critique of Python it would have been they same answer had it been Java or Perl. I was just trying to explain the life-cycle of language popularity. Which will always be an imperfect summation due to trends and resurgence of trends.
In reference to you seeing Python in your environment I would assume it is because you already have Python in your environment
At one of the companies, they were using only C before (and some PHP/Java). Python was chosen for its merits (large support library, user-friendly language, lot of developers know it, relatively light embeddable VM), not because it was already entrenched in the organization.
At one of the companies, they were using only C before (and some PHP/Java). Python was chosen for its merits (large support library, user-friendly language, lot of developers know it, relatively light embeddable VM), not because it was already entrenched in the organization.
I'm calling BS on this. LOTS of python gets used in places you don't expect. I've had backend stuff running in python for years.
I am not saying that it does not get used, and my commentary was not meant to be a cometary on the merits of pythons in particular. Personally I find it to be a fantastic language. But language popularity and trends is a very real phenomenon and that was what I was trying to highlight. To deny it's adoption is tapering off in new development houses, that are making language selection decisions, is to ignore the obvious. Just look at the volume of "we are building a new product in Ruby or Node or whatever the language dujor is", posts here on HN. I am by no means saying that Python is going to die. There are very few languages, that reach a decent level of popularity that actually "die" rather that it is following the natural cycle of popularity that all languages go through. My speculation was as to whether Python has reached the level of popularity, that it will sustain a sizable population once it has lost all popular mind-share. I don't know the answer to that speculation, just stating what I speculate could happen.
Yeah, just like C is a great language, and here to stay, but supply and demand for C programmers can wax and wane.
There's no doubt that Google switching to Java / C++ / Go, better JVM goodies, C#, node.js and the uncertainty surrounding Python 3.X is hurting python a little.
There's no doubt that Google switching to Java / C++ / Go, better JVM goodies, C#, node.js and the uncertainty surrounding Python 3.X is hurting python a little.
Go and read about what a paragraph is and how you should use it
Sample bias.
Perhaps lots of HN readers happen to like working in Python.
Perhaps Python consultants figure that HN is a relatively promising place to seek clients.
Perhaps Python's community has fewer alternative venues in which to advertise.
Perhaps it's just nucleation: The first two Python posts attracted other Python posts.
All guesses of course, no data.
Perhaps lots of HN readers happen to like working in Python.
Perhaps Python consultants figure that HN is a relatively promising place to seek clients.
Perhaps Python's community has fewer alternative venues in which to advertise.
Perhaps it's just nucleation: The first two Python posts attracted other Python posts.
All guesses of course, no data.
My experience (i.e. anecdote) is that python programmers are more likely to work as consultants/freelancers, rather than in permanent jobs.
C developers, by contrast, are more likely to stay at the same company for 5 or 10 years.
Where I am (London), the demand for python skills is immense, even by tech-job standards. It's possible that there is a falling-off of demand elsewhere, of course.
C developers, by contrast, are more likely to stay at the same company for 5 or 10 years.
Where I am (London), the demand for python skills is immense, even by tech-job standards. It's possible that there is a falling-off of demand elsewhere, of course.
Python is fairly popular among startups, and hence supply follows demand.
Well the question is that the supply seems to be preceding demand. Tons of python freelancers seeking work on the thread - no one is seeking python freelancers.
I have a post on that thread, seeking work. But that doesn't mean i don't have work. I run a consulting firm that handles a dozen python projects at any given time and i definitely get more than a dozen offers each week. But yeah quite a lot of them are, "game changing", 'equity' types.
I guess like most freelancers, the people on there might already have a steady stream of work, and are just marketing themselves since python is the in-thing right now?
I guess like most freelancers, the people on there might already have a steady stream of work, and are just marketing themselves since python is the in-thing right now?
It's largely been supplanted by Ruby?