Launch HN: KaiPod Learning (YC S21) – A physical place for online schoolers
28 comments
Really cool! A lot of parents had success putting their kids into a learning pod during COVID and it looks like you’re building formal structure around this type of thing.
I love that you’re working on it. If you can figure out how to make this work, the real power of the internet can be unleashed on education… and really just in the nick of time.
Some questions for you:
1. How do you choose the pods? What happens if the kids don’t like each other?
2. What depth is the coach supposed to be able to get into? Seems like a really hard job to context switch rapidly between topics when each kid is at a different place and doing something different.
3. What does the social component feel like? Are the kids mostly building comraderie around broader cultural topics as opposed to learning?
I love that you’re working on it. If you can figure out how to make this work, the real power of the internet can be unleashed on education… and really just in the nick of time.
Some questions for you:
1. How do you choose the pods? What happens if the kids don’t like each other?
2. What depth is the coach supposed to be able to get into? Seems like a really hard job to context switch rapidly between topics when each kid is at a different place and doing something different.
3. What does the social component feel like? Are the kids mostly building comraderie around broader cultural topics as opposed to learning?
You don't need to "put" people places - they do that by themselves (and better than you can centrally plan - I know you don't want to hear that).
You don't need to make them go on the internet either.
And apparent "success", in the sense you mean it, isn't, either. It's just kicking the can down the road. Real progress would be the seemingly unproductive, a-month-for-every-year-in-school deschooling period like that of "the sleeping student" at Sudbury[1].
People had the chance this year and the last[2] to let children be free and they blew it.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si0PPv-7yWo&list=PLBC7021B61... [2] We've known since April 2020 that kids don't spread it. Icelandic contact-tracing study.
You don't need to make them go on the internet either.
And apparent "success", in the sense you mean it, isn't, either. It's just kicking the can down the road. Real progress would be the seemingly unproductive, a-month-for-every-year-in-school deschooling period like that of "the sleeping student" at Sudbury[1].
People had the chance this year and the last[2] to let children be free and they blew it.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si0PPv-7yWo&list=PLBC7021B61... [2] We've known since April 2020 that kids don't spread it. Icelandic contact-tracing study.
I really appreciate your push for learning environments that don't constrain students and students can just be who they are. In other words, what are the absolutely minimum number of things that we insist on as rules, so that students feel the freedom to take ownership over the rest.
(And thanks for sharing that Sudbury example; I had never seen it before but I love the message.)
(And thanks for sharing that Sudbury example; I had never seen it before but I love the message.)
Thank you for the kind words and good questions!
1.) We match students to pods after a family interview and spending time with the students. The dimensions we use for matching include geography, age, online program, extra-curricular interests, learning personalities, and other needs that students may have.
Despite our best efforts, we will certainly have situations where some kids may not like each other, but we train our Learning Coaches in building positive group dynamics and helping kids learn to work together (very much like the real world!).
2. We definitely don't ask our Coaches to be content experts; that would indeed be a really hard job as you point out. Instead, we ask them to be able to sit down with the student and figure things out using the course content. When the duo figures out a complex topic together, we hear from students that they enjoyed it a lot more (and learned more!) than someone just telling them how to do it. And in the situations where the duo can't figure it out either, the coach works with the online teacher to make sure the student gets the help they need.
3. Kids mostly build camaraderie around the enrichment activities we plan every day (e.g., music classes, building bridges with spaghetti/marshmallows) where they team up. We also have breaks for free play (e.g., badminton in the yard, Bananagrams with the Learning Coaches).
Academically, it's hard for students in the same pod to 'bond' since students can be in different grades (up to a 3 year age band in each pod), can choose which subject to work on and when, and can move at their own pace. Instead, students actually get that type of camaraderie with their online school classmates. Hope that made sense; but let me know if not!
1.) We match students to pods after a family interview and spending time with the students. The dimensions we use for matching include geography, age, online program, extra-curricular interests, learning personalities, and other needs that students may have.
Despite our best efforts, we will certainly have situations where some kids may not like each other, but we train our Learning Coaches in building positive group dynamics and helping kids learn to work together (very much like the real world!).
2. We definitely don't ask our Coaches to be content experts; that would indeed be a really hard job as you point out. Instead, we ask them to be able to sit down with the student and figure things out using the course content. When the duo figures out a complex topic together, we hear from students that they enjoyed it a lot more (and learned more!) than someone just telling them how to do it. And in the situations where the duo can't figure it out either, the coach works with the online teacher to make sure the student gets the help they need.
3. Kids mostly build camaraderie around the enrichment activities we plan every day (e.g., music classes, building bridges with spaghetti/marshmallows) where they team up. We also have breaks for free play (e.g., badminton in the yard, Bananagrams with the Learning Coaches).
Academically, it's hard for students in the same pod to 'bond' since students can be in different grades (up to a 3 year age band in each pod), can choose which subject to work on and when, and can move at their own pace. Instead, students actually get that type of camaraderie with their online school classmates. Hope that made sense; but let me know if not!
I like this idea. What do you do to get parents aware and started on the transition? Curious especially how to get the notice of parents who don’t aggressively research education options as they would likely be the busy workers who would benefit from the 5:30 end time.
I see similarities between your model and homeschool co-ops, and to a lesser degree, hybrid schools. I’d considered how co-ops in particular could benefit from a guide or docent to help each student put together their mix of co-op classes and individual studies via book or video. Curious if you’d studied them as well.
I see similarities between your model and homeschool co-ops, and to a lesser degree, hybrid schools. I’d considered how co-ops in particular could benefit from a guide or docent to help each student put together their mix of co-op classes and individual studies via book or video. Curious if you’d studied them as well.
Thanks so much for your questions. To get started, we are talking to parents who have already opted into an online school or even an online homeschool program. Those families have already made the transition to the learning model; and many of them are looking for greater opportunities for socialization and academic support. When we describe the model to them, they see its value pretty quickly.
As you are pointing out, we do have trouble reaching the parents in a more traditional education who aren't actively seeking out alternative options. Our hope is that as we show the value of our model, the word will spread and more parents will opt in. In the meantime, we are doing whatever we can to lower the effort required for families to transition. Any suggestions are most welcome!
Homeschool co-ops are an excellent comparison. For those who may not know what those are, a co-op is a group of homeschooling families who come together (often on a voluntary basis) to support each other with their kids' education and other needs (e.g., meals, childcare, etc.). They've been around for years and, in the pandemic, they started to get mainstream as 'learning pods.'
In some ways, you can see us as making the concept of 'co-ops' more available to more people.
As you are pointing out, we do have trouble reaching the parents in a more traditional education who aren't actively seeking out alternative options. Our hope is that as we show the value of our model, the word will spread and more parents will opt in. In the meantime, we are doing whatever we can to lower the effort required for families to transition. Any suggestions are most welcome!
Homeschool co-ops are an excellent comparison. For those who may not know what those are, a co-op is a group of homeschooling families who come together (often on a voluntary basis) to support each other with their kids' education and other needs (e.g., meals, childcare, etc.). They've been around for years and, in the pandemic, they started to get mainstream as 'learning pods.'
In some ways, you can see us as making the concept of 'co-ops' more available to more people.
My name is Kai, and back in the day when I owned an iPod, the device name was set to KaiPod. Needless to say I was somewhat surprised to see this headline when I opened HN today!
Thanks so much for sharing this! :)
It's probably worth a mention here that the pilot location is the greater Boston area.
Given how many passionate undergraduate and graduate students are there, the depth of the talent pool for coaches is second to none!
I'm not familiar enough with Massachusetts' home/online schooling rules to comment, but when you're ready to extend north, there are robust communities of non-traditionally schooling families in southern New Hampshire!
Given how many passionate undergraduate and graduate students are there, the depth of the talent pool for coaches is second to none!
I'm not familiar enough with Massachusetts' home/online schooling rules to comment, but when you're ready to extend north, there are robust communities of non-traditionally schooling families in southern New Hampshire!
Thank you for that insight about New Hampshire!
I LOVE this! Have family members who have been renting offices at wework for their kids to do this.
Thanks so much for your support!
My son will be ready for Kindergarten next fall. Would we be in your target market?
If so, how would we find out which online public schools are an option for us? Presumably not all online public schools in the US would be able to get funding from SFUSD for an SF-based student?
If so, how would we find out which online public schools are an option for us? Presumably not all online public schools in the US would be able to get funding from SFUSD for an SF-based student?
Right now, we are starting with 4th to 12th graders. The reason for this is that online learning is a bit more self-paced at this age group.
For kindergarten-aged students, online schools typically require heavy 1-on-1 support from a learning coach (typically a parent or guardina). Since our model typically has 8-10 students per learning coach, we haven't figured out how to support younger students yet.
In terms of which schools are an option, if you're in California, there are several options available to you to opt in to online schools (both public and private). The one I know best is called California Connections Academy (https://www.connectionsacademy.com/california-online-school). These schools are funded by the state and operate as charter schools.
For kindergarten-aged students, online schools typically require heavy 1-on-1 support from a learning coach (typically a parent or guardina). Since our model typically has 8-10 students per learning coach, we haven't figured out how to support younger students yet.
In terms of which schools are an option, if you're in California, there are several options available to you to opt in to online schools (both public and private). The one I know best is called California Connections Academy (https://www.connectionsacademy.com/california-online-school). These schools are funded by the state and operate as charter schools.
I like the concept but perhaps not your approach. What I see is that American public schooling has become more focused on the bottom decile student than the top decile student, and also focused on “equity” metrics that don’t serve the needs of the top students. So what I’d like to see is a physical place where top students who can work 2+ grades ahead get together and challenge each other intellectually, but in a more affordable way than private school.
I can definitely understand your concern. Often, focus on equity can manifest as lowering the ceiling for all students, rather than lowering the floor so more students can access 'the room.'
In our pods, we have space for accelerated learners who want zero constraints on their progress (i.e., just let me go as fast as I want!). We do our best to match them with learners who are equally paced (so they may work together to challenge each other) AND those who may not be as accelerated (so they may learn to work with a variety of student profiles).
To continue the analogy from before, we are all about expanding the room so all types of learners can succeed.
In our pods, we have space for accelerated learners who want zero constraints on their progress (i.e., just let me go as fast as I want!). We do our best to match them with learners who are equally paced (so they may work together to challenge each other) AND those who may not be as accelerated (so they may learn to work with a variety of student profiles).
To continue the analogy from before, we are all about expanding the room so all types of learners can succeed.
For when you don't want to send your kid to school but still need to send your kid somewhere all day with a bunch of kids to be supervised by someone else while they do schoolwork - but without the disadvantage of kids their age learning the same thing! Amazing.
Thanks for your comment. COVID reminded us how important a school's role is in providing a safe place for students to be & learn (so that parents/guardians can work or otherwise support their households). You may have seen the data on COVID's disproportionate effect on women leaving the workforce to tend to childcare duties that would otherwise not have been present if schools were open.
For many online school families, they have struggled with this for years before COVID and will continue to struggle with it after; we are designing this program precisely to address this challenge.
I also wanted to address the last part of your comment: all kids of the same age learning the same thing is indeed a disadvantage of today's traditional education system. I hope you'll agree that there's nothing biological about 10 year olds needing to learn the exact same thing at the exact same time. Children proceed along unpredictable paths of learning at unpredictable paces and our jobs as educators (or in my case, as someone who supports educators) is to enable as much of that flexibility as possible for the children.
For many online school families, they have struggled with this for years before COVID and will continue to struggle with it after; we are designing this program precisely to address this challenge.
I also wanted to address the last part of your comment: all kids of the same age learning the same thing is indeed a disadvantage of today's traditional education system. I hope you'll agree that there's nothing biological about 10 year olds needing to learn the exact same thing at the exact same time. Children proceed along unpredictable paths of learning at unpredictable paces and our jobs as educators (or in my case, as someone who supports educators) is to enable as much of that flexibility as possible for the children.
lazyasciiart(3)
Do snarky comments like this add to the discussion?
Over the last 15 years I have been a school teacher, a principal, and most recently the Chief Product Officer of Pearson Online Schools. I have come to understand the unfortunate link between residential property values and educational outcomes. There are tens of millions of parents in poor quality school districts who can’t afford to relocate or pay for a private school. Online learning can help solve this problem for many kids. With public online schools, you can live anywhere and have access to a high-quality education.
For millions of kids, online school is the best school they’ve ever had. They get to study at their own pace without feeling rushed or bored, work without distractions, and not fear bullying. However, they lack enough opportunities to interact with other kids or get real-time help from their teachers. In addition, parents of online students usually have to stay home with them and support them with academic work, something that not all parents are able to do.
At Pearson, my team supported 150,000 students who went to school completely online before the pandemic even started. In conversations with many families, I came to understand what brought them to our schools and what could make their experience better. The idea to run small-group learning pods as supplements to online school was the highest-impact idea we studied. It was popular with parents and students and we knew we could improve customer conversion, student outcomes, and school retention if we did it. However, Pearson is a curriculum company and I couldn’t get this off the ground. As the pandemic started and the floodgates opened for online schooling, I decided to quit my job and build a startup to solve the problem.
We provide a physical place for online students to meet every day, interact with other kids, and get support from instructors. We match them to a learning center within 20 minutes of their home with 8-10 other children of similar age. These students come to our center anywhere from two to five days a week. While they are at our centers, they are supported by a “learning coach”, a former teacher who loves working with kids (but not grading homework or creating lesson plans!). Our coaches interact closely with the online school teachers and create strategies on how to support each child. This team approach is highly effective at addressing the academic, social, and emotional needs of each child.
During the day, kids set goals for themselves; work on their online courses; take part in enrichment activities such as art, music, and coding; and have plenty of time for free play and independent learning. Our centers are open until 5:30pm every day so families with working parents do not have to worry about arranging for after-school childcare. At the end of the day, our students go home without any homework to do or tests to study for. All academic work happens on-site with the support of the coach. When the family gets home, they can truly spend time together rather than nagging kids about doing homework.
We have a video showcasing some of our students, parents, and teachers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujx_TAUP7uw
Getting feedback from parents is really critical and I would love to get your ideas on what makes for a great school experience for your children. And, if you have experienced some form of remote or online learning in the past (i.e, before or during COVID), I’d love to hear more about what you liked about it and what could have been better!
Thank you in advance!