Pop OS – System76(pop.system76.com)
pop.system76.com
Pop OS – System76
https://pop.system76.com/
192 comments
Nothing wrong with PopOS, but I'd pick plain Debian over Ubuntu. Just make sure to install from the "unofficial non-free media" if you're on modern hardware. Also the 'testing' channel of Debian makes for a great semi-rolling distribution.
I think for many some of the appeal of Ubuntu is in Ubuntu LTS, which gets more attention than the Debian alternative.
Have a look at the Ubuntu LTS page: https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop
And then look at the Debian equivalent: https://www.debian.org/lts/
(though the differences are perhaps because the latter is comparatively more unofficial)
But hey, many people prefer more stable distros with somewhat long life times, so that's a valid preference nonetheless.
Disclaimer: mostly a Debian user, i dread having to migrate from 10 to 11, but hey, at least i can use Ansible for all of my servers this time around.
Have a look at the Ubuntu LTS page: https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop
And then look at the Debian equivalent: https://www.debian.org/lts/
(though the differences are perhaps because the latter is comparatively more unofficial)
But hey, many people prefer more stable distros with somewhat long life times, so that's a valid preference nonetheless.
Disclaimer: mostly a Debian user, i dread having to migrate from 10 to 11, but hey, at least i can use Ansible for all of my servers this time around.
Better marketing doesn't make it better.
If you compare the actual releases I think you will find Debian to be more stable overall.
Ahh, but the difference here is not in the stability of Debian vs Ubuntu, but rather the fact that Debian's LTS offering is just a community effort, as opposed to Ubuntu having an official LTS release.
Many aren't even aware that Debian has LTS releases in the first place.
Many aren't even aware that Debian has LTS releases in the first place.
I would prefer to use Debian if it was more stable. It worked fine on my workstation but if I try to use it on my laptop it would not ever resume from suspend making it unusable.
I think Ubuntu has the benefit of the large user base making it more likely that your problem is solved.
My laptop is also a 5 year old thinkpad x1 gen 4 so it should be supported, and Debian is the only linux that gave me this problem.
I think Ubuntu has the benefit of the large user base making it more likely that your problem is solved.
My laptop is also a 5 year old thinkpad x1 gen 4 so it should be supported, and Debian is the only linux that gave me this problem.
Odd, I own this exact laptop, and haven't experienced any suspend/resume issues on either debian 10, nor 11.
While unlikely, it could've been that the kernel version was too old or you were missing non-free drivers for something?
On my experience, if it worked in Ubuntu, it would work on Debian, and if it didn't, using the latest backported kernel would solve it.
My choice too, but with Pop Shell added. Coming from i3, then sway, the transition to Pop Shell was seamless. The natural integration with Gnome, which is always a pain with i3/sway, is a great selling point.
I second the recommendation for using Debian as a rolling distro, under testing or unstable.
I second the recommendation for using Debian as a rolling distro, under testing or unstable.
Reminds me of the first rule of Arch Linux.
Always tell other people you use Arch Linux.
Always tell other people you use Arch Linux.
I use Arch (again) since 4 month...but just because of archinstall ;)
I tried that too yesterday! I wanted to try Gnome 41 so I used the gnome template in archinstall, but then afterwards I got in a big mess with NetworkManager vs. systemd-networkd and the docs said NetworkManager was included with the gnome group but then it wasn't and I wasn't sure what to disable/enable and couldn't install it until I set up wifi with systemd. Ended up installing Fedora 35 beta, so far I'm happy. The previous time I tried to install arch manually but I found out late in the process that I made a small mistake settings up something related to btrfs and luks and I didn't want to restart all over again. That part went great with archinstall.
so if you're an Arch user, and a Vegan who does crossfit which one would you mention first?
Obligatory: https://github.com/overmighty/i-use-arch-btw
And don't forget to get an email address from https://iusear.ch/iusearch-mailbox.html
>I've written a couple reviews
Isn't it just Ubuntu with slightly (basically introduces tiling) different shell? What is there to review?
Isn't it just Ubuntu with slightly (basically introduces tiling) different shell? What is there to review?
There are some desktop and environment changes, but Pop also have a really good power management module that no other distro has, and good compatibility aroung different GPUs combination, and that is a big deal in laptops.
I had some problem in the past with a laptop with Intel GPU + AMD GPU interchangeable graphics in other distros while with Pop is ready to use after installing. AFAIK, those who had Nvidia Optimus and similar Nvidia technologies had a lot more of troubles outside Pop.
I haven't used Ubuntu in ages, so I don't know how those things are actually managed. Probably they aren't far behind.
I had some problem in the past with a laptop with Intel GPU + AMD GPU interchangeable graphics in other distros while with Pop is ready to use after installing. AFAIK, those who had Nvidia Optimus and similar Nvidia technologies had a lot more of troubles outside Pop.
I haven't used Ubuntu in ages, so I don't know how those things are actually managed. Probably they aren't far behind.
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Anecdotal evidence, I know... But there were several things that just didn't work right for me on vanilla Ubuntu that Pop made right when I switched 3 years ago. Mostly graphics related in my case.
I think it's important to remember that System 76 has been "making Linux work on hardware" for over a decade now, which is a totally different mindset to building a distro than most maintainers have.
I think it's important to remember that System 76 has been "making Linux work on hardware" for over a decade now, which is a totally different mindset to building a distro than most maintainers have.
Also, complete anecdata on my part, but I've found developers who've gotten used to working on Macs find Pop OS to be a smooth transition. At least, in my circle of friends/coworkers.
I second that. Running PopOS even on a System76 laptop which replicates the Macbook-macOS tandem experience.
Any good reasons to select Pop over Ubuntu?
Here's a few:
- Great initial repo list
- Togglable tiling manager
- Excellent shortcuts for everything that improve my workflow
Sure, I could get all of this stuff and more working on any other distro, but this stuff works out of the box, and is stable.
- Great initial repo list
- Togglable tiling manager
- Excellent shortcuts for everything that improve my workflow
Sure, I could get all of this stuff and more working on any other distro, but this stuff works out of the box, and is stable.
Is there any way to use Pop without the gnome backend? Gnome and Pop both ship with Nautilus, and apparently don't work well without it, but Nautilus doesn't have type-ahead navigation. This is when you are in a directory and start typing the first few letters of the file you want to get to. In Windows Explorer, that will just lead to the cursor skipping ahead, whereas in Gnome, this starts a search for the file. It's absolutely appalling behaviour, and the developers are obstinate to a fault at changing this, despite outcry.
Yes. I use Pop!_OS with Plasma, it's great. The documentation includes details on switching to 8 different desktops.
https://support.system76.com/articles/desktop-environment/
https://support.system76.com/articles/desktop-environment/
I had the same issue and resolved it on Pop! OS with this patched nautilus from a PPA.
https://launchpad.net/~lubomir-brindza/+archive/ubuntu/nauti...
Works great for me!
https://launchpad.net/~lubomir-brindza/+archive/ubuntu/nauti...
Works great for me!
Oh hell yes. Thank you! I think it's time to give Pop a chance again then!
Thanks a lot for the list. "Luckily" not deal-breakers that would warrant a shift for me. I have been using Ubuntu without any complaints as daily driver for a year or so. But as I plan to get a new laptop in the future I contemplated whether I should try a new distro as well.
There are other reasons but for one Pop doesn't push Snap. Flatpak is available and well integrated, but isn't forced down your throat (as Snap is in Ubuntu).
I generally prefer flatpak but I feel snap is a bit ahead and for one simple reason: marketing.
Canonical has been pushing very hard for snaps and it shows when I get get official builds of things like Zoom, Visual Studio Code, JetBrains and Spotify but the flatpak versions are just community provided. Some of them tend to work better than flatpak as well because of “classic” confinement. Using VS Code in flatpak and not having full access to the system in my integrated terminal kinda sucks. It might not be better from a security perspective but it’s much better from a user experience perspective and that matters more to me personally.
The said I still use flatpak as well, and prefer to use flatpak if there isn’t a material difference in functionality between the snap and flatpak.
Canonical has been pushing very hard for snaps and it shows when I get get official builds of things like Zoom, Visual Studio Code, JetBrains and Spotify but the flatpak versions are just community provided. Some of them tend to work better than flatpak as well because of “classic” confinement. Using VS Code in flatpak and not having full access to the system in my integrated terminal kinda sucks. It might not be better from a security perspective but it’s much better from a user experience perspective and that matters more to me personally.
The said I still use flatpak as well, and prefer to use flatpak if there isn’t a material difference in functionality between the snap and flatpak.
Nvidia out of the box.
Ubuntu has had the proprietary nvidia driver on the iso and selected out of the box for a few releases now.
NVIDIA Optimus support - out of the box with a UI to switch graphics cards. The only other bistro I have seen to support it is Ubuntu MATE. All other distros require installation outside of the default package managers.
ive been wondering. if a new user is switching from windows, don't you think something like kde neon would have "less friction" UX wise ? i somewhat understand the appeal of pop os but gnome is wildly different from windows and i have seen people turn off.
KDE is certainly closer to Windows than GNOME is, but in my opinion only enough that longtime Windows users would likely find it sitting an uncanny valley of Windows-ness, at least with all the default configurations (which most new users would be using) I've seen.
In practice I've found that Cinnamon, XFCE, and MATE configured similarly to how they are by default on Linux Mint to operate more like Windows than KDE does.
In practice I've found that Cinnamon, XFCE, and MATE configured similarly to how they are by default on Linux Mint to operate more like Windows than KDE does.
Long time KDE fan here.
IIRC last time I tried Pop OS it seemed very usable and the only thing that stopped me from using it was some hardware issues on my rig (a faulty drive, not the fault of Pop OS).
I especially liked that they try to clean up keyboard shortcuts in a smart way.
(For reference my issues with Gnome 3 that they built (built?) on is the we-know-best attitude combined with what I perceive as agressive copying of certain Mac OS features and also not trusting its users.)
IIRC last time I tried Pop OS it seemed very usable and the only thing that stopped me from using it was some hardware issues on my rig (a faulty drive, not the fault of Pop OS).
I especially liked that they try to clean up keyboard shortcuts in a smart way.
(For reference my issues with Gnome 3 that they built (built?) on is the we-know-best attitude combined with what I perceive as agressive copying of certain Mac OS features and also not trusting its users.)
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From my experience, people who want to try linux is yearning for somewhat different UI, but not too different from familiar win/macos UI. Pop OS hits the sweet spot imo, refreshing but comfortable enough while usability is still there.
I keep seeing this advice for windows users switching to Linux - that they "need" a DE that is incredibly similar to Windows in order to feel comfortable.
However, I think that's really the wrong approach. You'll just end up making them go into that headspace where they expect/want linux to work exactly like windows. If they really wanted something that's just like windows, why would they even leave windows to begin with?
Neon may be a bit too bleeding edge for a new convert from Windows.
Kubuntu is probably just right.
Kubuntu is probably just right.
Just install dash-to-panel and desktop icons extension. Now you've a very fine traditional interface.
A bit of a sidenote:
PopOS came installed on my system76 laptop. But that's not important here.
What intrigues me more is that the laptop had terrible battery life. And I mean terrible by even 2010 standards. And I bought it in 2018. It would last less than an hour on average, and less than 40 minutes if I was doing something demanding.
I use past term "had" as although I am still using this laptop today, somehow after 3 years, it's battery life has just increased dramatically and completely out of the blue.
Somehow I can now use it for over three hours while running off battery life. I've been pretty confused as to how this has happened, and am now wondering if anyone with a system76 might have experienced something similar.
I'm really hoping it will go up to nine hours by 2024. It's a great laptop.
PopOS came installed on my system76 laptop. But that's not important here.
What intrigues me more is that the laptop had terrible battery life. And I mean terrible by even 2010 standards. And I bought it in 2018. It would last less than an hour on average, and less than 40 minutes if I was doing something demanding.
I use past term "had" as although I am still using this laptop today, somehow after 3 years, it's battery life has just increased dramatically and completely out of the blue.
Somehow I can now use it for over three hours while running off battery life. I've been pretty confused as to how this has happened, and am now wondering if anyone with a system76 might have experienced something similar.
I'm really hoping it will go up to nine hours by 2024. It's a great laptop.
I have the same problem. Last time I researched system76, there were at least some models based on the same Clevo laptops as the one I have. I get 2 hours of battery life on these laptops.
They have dedicated nvidia GPUs. Due to the poor state of proprietary nvidia drivers, there's no hybrid graphics support. The kernel can't turn the dedicated GPU off and switch to integrated graphics. So it just stays on at all times and those things consume a lot of power. I actually measure the power draw constantly using the nvidia management library and it's very interesting to see all kinds of random software suddenly trigger massive power usage spikes. The hardware-accelerated kitty terminal is a major offender. Turning off the GPU in the firmware settings extended battery life to about 6-7 hours.
Maybe system76 worked some kind of miracle here and got hybrid graphics working? That would be amazing.
They have dedicated nvidia GPUs. Due to the poor state of proprietary nvidia drivers, there's no hybrid graphics support. The kernel can't turn the dedicated GPU off and switch to integrated graphics. So it just stays on at all times and those things consume a lot of power. I actually measure the power draw constantly using the nvidia management library and it's very interesting to see all kinds of random software suddenly trigger massive power usage spikes. The hardware-accelerated kitty terminal is a major offender. Turning off the GPU in the firmware settings extended battery life to about 6-7 hours.
Maybe system76 worked some kind of miracle here and got hybrid graphics working? That would be amazing.
I have a 14" System76 Gazelle running Debian with hybrid graphics through primus-vk-nvidia[0] and the proprietary drivers and I would say it works fairly well, albeit only after a substantial amount of trial-and-error with the configuration to make it stable. (Most notably, I blacklisted the bbswitch driver since it tended to cause lockups—the system seems to work just fine without it.) Most applications rely exclusively on the integrated Intel UHD Graphics 630 GPU but I can add a "pvkrun" prefix to any command to have it render on the discrete GTX 1660 Ti and copy the image data back to the iGPU for display. I haven't fully optimized the power consumption, but the driver for the NVIDIA card is unloaded when not in use so the discrete graphics should be completely idle.
I haven't used Pop!_OS much lately, but from what I remember at the time I received the system with Pop!_OS preinstalled there were options in the main menu (alongside shut down / reboot) to switch between integrated and discrete graphics. The change involved a system reboot, and there wasn't any support for hybrid graphics.
[0] https://packages.debian.org/sid/primus-vk-nvidia
I haven't used Pop!_OS much lately, but from what I remember at the time I received the system with Pop!_OS preinstalled there were options in the main menu (alongside shut down / reboot) to switch between integrated and discrete graphics. The change involved a system reboot, and there wasn't any support for hybrid graphics.
[0] https://packages.debian.org/sid/primus-vk-nvidia
> primus-vk-nvidia
This is new to me! I'll try it out one of these days. Last time I dealt with this stuff bumblebee was still in use. There was also a hack to spawn a second hardware-accelerated X server.
This is new to me! I'll try it out one of these days. Last time I dealt with this stuff bumblebee was still in use. There was also a hack to spawn a second hardware-accelerated X server.
> Last time I dealt with this stuff bumblebee was still in use.
The primus-vk-nvidia stack still uses Bumblebee. It replaces the original PRIMUS component with a version that shares the image data through the Vulkan APIs, which seems to have fewer issues with incompatible OpenGL versions (even when both the app and the compositor are using OpenGL and not Vulkan). Perhaps something about Vulkan being designed from the start to support multiple vendor backends in the same process, vs. OpenGL where you generally have to load a single vendor's implementation?
The primus-vk-nvidia stack still uses Bumblebee. It replaces the original PRIMUS component with a version that shares the image data through the Vulkan APIs, which seems to have fewer issues with incompatible OpenGL versions (even when both the app and the compositor are using OpenGL and not Vulkan). Perhaps something about Vulkan being designed from the start to support multiple vendor backends in the same process, vs. OpenGL where you generally have to load a single vendor's implementation?
Have you tried using TLP? https://linrunner.de/tlp/
There is also "Auto CPUfreq", but I have not tried it yet. Automatic CPU speed & power optimizer for Linux: https://github.com/AdnanHodzic/auto-cpufreq
There is also "Auto CPUfreq", but I have not tried it yet. Automatic CPU speed & power optimizer for Linux: https://github.com/AdnanHodzic/auto-cpufreq
Power management on a laptop is a careful dance between a bunch of hardware, firmware, 'BIOS', and the purported OS running the device (more like running in a small part of the device). It doesn't take much going wrong to completely wreck the battery life of a laptop.
At a guess, perhaps PopOS updated something to do with power management.
I tried multiple distros in the first couple months--without notable effect on the battery life, which I should mention for this particular machine, has been subjected to much slander on internet forums--including Ubuntu, Mint, and then Manjaro, which I eventually settled on and it has been running on there to this day.
I've been a Windows user since the days you typed "win" to start it from DOS and I still manange a small Windows network for a manufacturer in Wisconsin. Last year I finally had enough from Microsoft and made the switch to Pop OS for my daily driver. I haven't looked back. It's a wonderful distro and I'm amazed at how far Linux has come since it's early days in the 90s. Kudos to the System 76 team.
As far as I'm concerned, this is the current gold standard for out-of-box experience desktop Linux.
There are things I would do differently if I were building a system myself, but PopOS "Just Works", and is more polished than Win10 imho.
There are things I would do differently if I were building a system myself, but PopOS "Just Works", and is more polished than Win10 imho.
Fedora and pop OS have been ahead of windows for a while.
Personally also think Mac is going the way of windows, I have to use it for testing safari sometimes the OS is an absolute nightmare to use, always popping up asking for my password or fingerprint or some other password, or some other permission, it's just a whole bunch of antipatterns.
Personally also think Mac is going the way of windows, I have to use it for testing safari sometimes the OS is an absolute nightmare to use, always popping up asking for my password or fingerprint or some other password, or some other permission, it's just a whole bunch of antipatterns.
You are absolutely correct. I remember when I switched from Windows XP to Mac how much quieter it got. No more constant pop ups, and importantly, apps were not allowed to steal focus. Now there’s a constant stream of interruptions. I’m constantly having window focus stolen by others apps while I’m typing, constantly having notifications, and the UI has only gotten worse over the last few years.
But damn if that hardware isn’t the best.
I’m torn on how best to switch to linux as a daily driver considering how much I depend on the very customized workflow I have running on my Mac.
But damn if that hardware isn’t the best.
I’m torn on how best to switch to linux as a daily driver considering how much I depend on the very customized workflow I have running on my Mac.
Get a ThinkPad and install fedora. Read the arch wiki if you run into problems with specific software. You'll barely notice the change tbh, gnome is really good these days especially on a standard fedora workstation release.
ThinkPads mostly just work (they use Ubuntu to run their acceptance tests before shipping). You do sometimes run into issues for a couple months on new machine releases while kernel catches up but having enough Linux users running them means things get fixed eventually unlike on say system76. Dell xps works about as well if that's more your style.
ThinkPads mostly just work (they use Ubuntu to run their acceptance tests before shipping). You do sometimes run into issues for a couple months on new machine releases while kernel catches up but having enough Linux users running them means things get fixed eventually unlike on say system76. Dell xps works about as well if that's more your style.
> having enough Linux users running them means things get fixed eventually unlike on say system76
In the Bad Old Days, this was true-having Linux developers using your Windows hardware would ensure it's eventually mostly supported. Note the "eventually" and "mostly."
System76 ships with Ubuntu or Pop! OS, and they support it for up three years. This is a _huge_ improvement. System76 makes sure both that Linux supports he hardware, but also that the _hardware_ supports _Linux._ This is night-and-day different from the bad old days.
In the Bad Old Days, this was true-having Linux developers using your Windows hardware would ensure it's eventually mostly supported. Note the "eventually" and "mostly."
System76 ships with Ubuntu or Pop! OS, and they support it for up three years. This is a _huge_ improvement. System76 makes sure both that Linux supports he hardware, but also that the _hardware_ supports _Linux._ This is night-and-day different from the bad old days.
macOS 12 is better about interruptions because having different focus modes for work, personal, etc helps a lot. It is the same system on iOS 15 if you have an iPhone or iPad.
Personally, I think it should assume that you don't want to be bothered and allow the user to change it from there.
Installed it on a Dell XPS13 recently. It's great except I have to restart GNOME every couple hours because of of annoying visual glitch that makes all text disappear.
If you’re on an Intel CPU Linux loves screen tearing.
Create /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-intel.conf
And add this:
Section "Device" Identifier "Intel Graphics" Driver "intel" Option "TearFree" "true" EndSection
Might fix your issues.
Section "Device" Identifier "Intel Graphics" Driver "intel" Option "TearFree" "true" EndSection
Might fix your issues.
The formatting on the X11 configuration is off. Maybe indent or use two line breaks in the editor? Anyway, it should look like this:
Section "Device"
Identifier "Intel Graphics"
Driver "intel"
Option "TearFree" "true"
EndSectionYes you are correct! First time trying to post a code block from mobile, cheers.
Woah woah woah woah.
Why would anyone without an Nvidia card be using X? You have to go out of your way to use this antiquated and deprecated technology with Gnome nowadays and screen tearing is specifically one of its problems.
Why would anyone without an Nvidia card be using X? You have to go out of your way to use this antiquated and deprecated technology with Gnome nowadays and screen tearing is specifically one of its problems.
If it's on a laptop: Fractional scaling. On wayland you can get some blurry apps (iirc xwayland apps) and on xps 13" (unless its the oled probably with it's weird resolution) integer scaling isn't good enough tbh
Does Wayland finally support screensharing apps, both native and web? That's what is keeping me on X11 plus an NVIDIA card.
It seems Wayland still has some issues with dual monitors and higher resolution (note: I am following the PopOS configuration guide on the frame.work forums. I’ll probably give Wayland a try later today as I wasn’t aware of this.
Try adding 'i915.enable_psr=0' to your kernel params. This fixes a weird bug I encountered where text would disappear, or weirdly not disappear when it should have disappeared. Hopefully this helps!
Have you tried switching to Wayland?
How can people be having this kind of conversation while also claiming this is the state of the art or the gold standard in 2021?
I've been running macos since 2012 and never had such issues. That's over 10 years ago.
Of course, OS X is older than that, and as far as I can tell, it never had such issues.
I've been running macos since 2012 and never had such issues. That's over 10 years ago.
Of course, OS X is older than that, and as far as I can tell, it never had such issues.
Not to minimize the other commenters issues, but I've never seen an issue like this, and I've run Pop on a wide variety of hardware.
And as the sibling to this comment points out, Pop only officially support their own hardware, where this would never happen.
Edit: It also seems worth pointing out that the reasons these conversations are had is that it can be fixed. Mac and Windows? Not so much in my experience. Working in a repair shop I have seen some things out of both of those that make bug's like this one look minor (remember when Windows updates decided user data didn't matter?), and there's nothing/not much you can do about it.
And as the sibling to this comment points out, Pop only officially support their own hardware, where this would never happen.
Edit: It also seems worth pointing out that the reasons these conversations are had is that it can be fixed. Mac and Windows? Not so much in my experience. Working in a repair shop I have seen some things out of both of those that make bug's like this one look minor (remember when Windows updates decided user data didn't matter?), and there's nothing/not much you can do about it.
Ugh Windows updates bugs! I’ve lost so much time because of it breaking.
On the other hand I still cannot configure CMD-tab to work like on Windows and most Linux desktop environments ln my brand new Mac.
Keyboard navigation (moving between or selecting words or lines of text) still seems somewhat hit or miss even though it is better than when I left Mac OS behind in 2012.
Of course this might not matter to you (and I even know some of you prefer the separation between "application switching" and "window switching") but for many of us these are way larger issues than having to fix a config file once.
Keyboard navigation (moving between or selecting words or lines of text) still seems somewhat hit or miss even though it is better than when I left Mac OS behind in 2012.
Of course this might not matter to you (and I even know some of you prefer the separation between "application switching" and "window switching") but for many of us these are way larger issues than having to fix a config file once.
Here: Install this, will fix how command+tab works and it's actively developed.
https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos
https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos
Wow! If this works it deals with the single biggest ux problem of Mac OS for a number of us.
Let us know how it went! I'm away from all the Macs I have access to atm
I've been running macos since 2012 and never had such issues.
Only if you install it on a very short list of approved hardware. Try to install OS X on a random Dell laptop and you will have far greater challenges than what most Linux distros will give you.
Only if you install it on a very short list of approved hardware. Try to install OS X on a random Dell laptop and you will have far greater challenges than what most Linux distros will give you.
Can confirm installing macOS on unsupported hardware is very time consuming and makes me wish I had just installed Linux instead. For example, you have to manually map USB ports and install tons of random drivers to your installation media before you can get a working system. Enabling each part of the experience is a whole adventure in itself (eg. audio support requires you to set a value in the bootloader, but there are actually like five values for each kind of audio chip and you have to try each and every one until it works).
Also, WiFi support is a nightmare. Worse than I've ever had it on Linux.
Even vanilla Windows installs don't always work that well.
Also, WiFi support is a nightmare. Worse than I've ever had it on Linux.
Even vanilla Windows installs don't always work that well.
This comment seems rather disingenuous. PopOs is meant to run on System 76 machines, and this person installed it on a Dell XPS.
Do you expect to run OS X on just about any machine and not have any issues?
Do you expect to run OS X on just about any machine and not have any issues?
PopOS is marketed as a general purpose distro, same as Ubuntu. Made by System76, but don't think they're claiming it doesn't work anywhere else.
They're under no obligation to test it on Dell machines, of course. The community should be doing that.
They're under no obligation to test it on Dell machines, of course. The community should be doing that.
Yeah, but I think jeppester also hits on a wider, and valid, point: OS X has got it easier, only needing to provide very limited hardware support.
Relatively, yes. They've now managed to support double digit configs across two CPU architectures, so from a throwing-stones-at-the-QA-team point of view it is a lot of work.
Definitely don't think System76 has that big a QA team, though, will have to be community supported as well.
Definitely don't think System76 has that big a QA team, though, will have to be community supported as well.
My brother's hackintosh had ballparkish issues compared to an OEM Mac, not sure it's really that different.
> gold standard for Linux
OS X is great for specific use cases and specific users. If you want Linux, OP is saying PopOS is the gold standard. OS X isn’t exactly in the same vein.
OS X is great for specific use cases and specific users. If you want Linux, OP is saying PopOS is the gold standard. OS X isn’t exactly in the same vein.
Apple gets to dictate both what display server and what graphics hardware macOS users get to use. Linux distros necessarily face integration issues that Apple has never had to.
You're right that it still sucks, but this isn't a matter of Wayland being insufficiently 'advanced'. This is about relationships between enterprises as much as it is about technical challenges.
You're right that it still sucks, but this isn't a matter of Wayland being insufficiently 'advanced'. This is about relationships between enterprises as much as it is about technical challenges.
If I wanted to run MacOS I would. Sometimes there are tradeoffs. You win some, you lose some.
Given that you're on an XPS you likely know this: is the touch screen support & UX as good as on Windows?
ThinkPad x380 user: I've had the best touch experience with GNOME 34/Fedora so far - three finger pinch/swipe to change desktops, pinch to zoom in Firefox, sane scrolling in most apps, and GNOME dashboard is touch friendly if you ever need to open apps. Maybe the jankiest part is rotation but I just try not to do that :D
*GNOME40/Fedora 34 :D
If you're interested in the tiling features of Pop OS, they're also available as a standalone extension for GNOME Shell. Very little friction to test them out (if you're already running GNOME).
https://github.com/pop-os/shell
https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-shell/
https://github.com/pop-os/shell
https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-shell/
I just want to open all windows floating and being able to manually snap windows in to a 3 columns grid, can this do it?
This sounds similar to some of my workflow when using Windows. PowerToys & fancyzones are really neat in that they let you pre-define specific "Snap zones" that you can then shift+drag windows on top of to resize them.
I tried Gtile on Fedora but found it wanting to emulate more of Linux's auto-tiling interfaces, which isn't what I want when using floating windows some of the time.
The Pop-Shell extension mentioned above was the best floating + tiling experience I'd used so far. Floating windows work like normal until you hit super+y where they'll begin to auto-tile & try to find sane spacing for the different windows onscreen.
You can cycle through those windows (and I believe resize them too) with keyboard commands, but also resize and drag around them with the mouse like normal. You can even drag them on top of each other to create "tabbed" windows behind one another with little selectors at the top.
I used this recently on a 12.5" (1080p) screen to reference Firefox on one half, while having my terminal, file browser, and text editor all "tabbed" on top of each other in the other half. Made it really smooth to fit all that into a small screen in a way that felt sane & easy to multitask with. I'd highly recommend trying that extension out and seeing if it can fill your needs, even if it's not 100% trying to fill Fancyzone's role.
I tried Gtile on Fedora but found it wanting to emulate more of Linux's auto-tiling interfaces, which isn't what I want when using floating windows some of the time.
The Pop-Shell extension mentioned above was the best floating + tiling experience I'd used so far. Floating windows work like normal until you hit super+y where they'll begin to auto-tile & try to find sane spacing for the different windows onscreen.
You can cycle through those windows (and I believe resize them too) with keyboard commands, but also resize and drag around them with the mouse like normal. You can even drag them on top of each other to create "tabbed" windows behind one another with little selectors at the top.
I used this recently on a 12.5" (1080p) screen to reference Firefox on one half, while having my terminal, file browser, and text editor all "tabbed" on top of each other in the other half. Made it really smooth to fit all that into a small screen in a way that felt sane & easy to multitask with. I'd highly recommend trying that extension out and seeing if it can fill your needs, even if it's not 100% trying to fill Fancyzone's role.
window snapping is too slow for me (have to do 3 things: activation, resize, move to edge/center, the later 2 even require sicky keys)
I don't find the tilling feature useful at all and of course this is my personal gripe with tilling in general.
The last thing you want is having your windows perfect then ANY new window or dialog open automatically messes it up and you have to "re-organize" every time. Setting layout should be a one and done thing.
I don't find the tilling feature useful at all and of course this is my personal gripe with tilling in general.
The last thing you want is having your windows perfect then ANY new window or dialog open automatically messes it up and you have to "re-organize" every time. Setting layout should be a one and done thing.
Nope, I want the same thing and just turned off the tiling desktop feature because it was easier to manually juggle them.
Try a gnome extension called gtile
It's not keyboard-driven, that's a bummer.
In the past, I used an extension called Put Windows that was perfect for my need, but that stopped working on Gnome 40.
In the past, I used an extension called Put Windows that was perfect for my need, but that stopped working on Gnome 40.
I used Gnome for a while and I just made my own very simple extension then, which was just a bunch of keybindings to move and resize the focused window. Super for a 2x2 grid or Super + Shift for a 3x2 grid, plus a Numpad key to place the window on the grid.
I guess it would still work with 40 because of how simple it was, but even if not, it would most probably be trivial to update, so you might want to consider this route.
I guess it would still work with 40 because of how simple it was, but even if not, it would most probably be trivial to update, so you might want to consider this route.
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I don't believe so
I am still searching for a replacement of Ubuntu. snap store not being open source made was enough for me after nearly 10 years.
Well, not so much for myself. I can handle Arch and whatnot. I am a distro hopper, although a somewhat slow one. Used i3 for years and should probably go back (or to sway). But for family members and relatives whose machines I install and support. Is Pop OS a reasonable candidate for that? The main problem with Ubuntu these days is that I have to tell them sorry no Chromium. If a school's e-learning system does not work with Firefox (or the teacher believes so) that's a problem.
Well, not so much for myself. I can handle Arch and whatnot. I am a distro hopper, although a somewhat slow one. Used i3 for years and should probably go back (or to sway). But for family members and relatives whose machines I install and support. Is Pop OS a reasonable candidate for that? The main problem with Ubuntu these days is that I have to tell them sorry no Chromium. If a school's e-learning system does not work with Firefox (or the teacher believes so) that's a problem.
I have started installing Fedora on computers I set up for my family, and it has been great! Everything works out of the box and every app is avaliable in the app store thanks to Flatpaks. Skype is just a click away, which used to require adding extra repos from Microsoft.
My father, who barely knows how to operate a computer, has been using it for years without the need for support. No forced updates/reboots. I only run a system upgrade every year or so, which also is a one button operation whitout any problems. It is a super stable experience for him as a user and me as an admin.
I tried PopOS for my SO, but it was to nerdy and the GNOME experience was to tweaked. I then went for Fedora and she likes it much better, comming from mac-land.
My father, who barely knows how to operate a computer, has been using it for years without the need for support. No forced updates/reboots. I only run a system upgrade every year or so, which also is a one button operation whitout any problems. It is a super stable experience for him as a user and me as an admin.
I tried PopOS for my SO, but it was to nerdy and the GNOME experience was to tweaked. I then went for Fedora and she likes it much better, comming from mac-land.
> My father, who barely knows how to operate a computer, has been using it for years without the need for support.
How's this working with regard to discoverability? Asking out of general curiosity; I haven't supported anybody else with a Linux desktop in years, and I'm fine with Gnome for my own workflow and habits, but I've always wondered if the lack of always-visible app launchers or an obvious menu in stock Gnome wouldn't be an issue for those who don't already know what and where to look.
> No forced updates/reboots. I only run a system upgrade every year or so, which also is a one button operation whitout any problems.
If these are the only updates run on that computer, wouldn't that leave e.g. browsers unpatched for quite long periods of time?
How's this working with regard to discoverability? Asking out of general curiosity; I haven't supported anybody else with a Linux desktop in years, and I'm fine with Gnome for my own workflow and habits, but I've always wondered if the lack of always-visible app launchers or an obvious menu in stock Gnome wouldn't be an issue for those who don't already know what and where to look.
> No forced updates/reboots. I only run a system upgrade every year or so, which also is a one button operation whitout any problems.
If these are the only updates run on that computer, wouldn't that leave e.g. browsers unpatched for quite long periods of time?
> How's this working with regard to discoverability?
He quickly learned to use the super key or the upper left corner to go to the overview. He mainly uses the browser and the email app anyway so he does not multitask that much.
> If these are the only updates run on that computer, wouldn't that leave e.g. browsers unpatched for quite long periods of time?
Fedora has an option to auto-update apps on reboot (not sure if it is default or not). He does not reboot often, but it happens often enough that it stays reasonably up to date. The updates are seamless and not forced, so he never experience any interuptions.
He quickly learned to use the super key or the upper left corner to go to the overview. He mainly uses the browser and the email app anyway so he does not multitask that much.
> If these are the only updates run on that computer, wouldn't that leave e.g. browsers unpatched for quite long periods of time?
Fedora has an option to auto-update apps on reboot (not sure if it is default or not). He does not reboot often, but it happens often enough that it stays reasonably up to date. The updates are seamless and not forced, so he never experience any interuptions.
Linux mint might be a good candidate. The distro also took a stand against snap(-store), and chrome/chromium works fine afaik.
Linux Mint is another great user friendly distro. I mostly see older people using it, presumably due to the traditional UX concept.
I originally considered it outdated, but after having a closer look I concluded it’s really not.
I originally considered it outdated, but after having a closer look I concluded it’s really not.
The first thing I do on a fresh Ubuntu is to purge away everything related to snap.
I tried PopOS at one point, to see what it was about. And, I honestly don't understand what it adds to the table. It felt like many minor things were changed to be different, but overall it had the same things I wanted. After being annoyed for a couple of days, I installed Ubuntu, removed snap, and everything is pleasant again.
I tried PopOS at one point, to see what it was about. And, I honestly don't understand what it adds to the table. It felt like many minor things were changed to be different, but overall it had the same things I wanted. After being annoyed for a couple of days, I installed Ubuntu, removed snap, and everything is pleasant again.
What were you annoyed by?
I honestly don't remember any longer. I think one of the things was the windows-key behavior. I used to be able to just hit that, fuzzy search the app and hit enter. I might be entirely mistaken that this was one of the things though. Apologies for my lousy memory.
That was never a thing on any GNOME distro by default. That has always been an extension
chromium can be installed through flathub (which is setup by pop os by default)
However, one thing that speaks against it for me as a replacement for Windows users, is that is uses Gnome. I personally love gnome, but I think it is not a good Windows replacement. But If your peers are fine with Gnome I think Pop_OS is a good candidate.
However, one thing that speaks against it for me as a replacement for Windows users, is that is uses Gnome. I personally love gnome, but I think it is not a good Windows replacement. But If your peers are fine with Gnome I think Pop_OS is a good candidate.
I've found that people who are the least advanced users tend to adapt faster - "Click here to open $BROWSER and here for $OFFICE" is generally all they need.
For people who somewhat know their OS it can be harder, but for all of vanilla GNOME's flaws, Pop's extentions make it excellent, and quite easy to use.
For people who somewhat know their OS it can be harder, but for all of vanilla GNOME's flaws, Pop's extentions make it excellent, and quite easy to use.
My wife uses fedora frequently and barely notices the difference between her Mac these days, most stuff is through chrome anyway.
I use arch on my workstation / laptops for various reasons. For homelab boxes and the htpc I use fedora, easy to install and everything just works.
I use arch on my workstation / laptops for various reasons. For homelab boxes and the htpc I use fedora, easy to install and everything just works.
The worst thing about Pop OS is the official styling of its name. "Pop!_OS", who came up with this?
Funny, I actually like it. It feels both fun & geeky to me.
"Pop, pop!"
I daily drive Pop OS on my Thinkpad and love it. It’s just… easy. Everything works out of the box and it’s a nice reliable system for general usage.
I used to be all about Arch and heavily modified OSes refined down to minute detail but these days I just want the OS to stay out of my way and let me get my work done, and that’s exactly what Pop OS is good for.
I used to be all about Arch and heavily modified OSes refined down to minute detail but these days I just want the OS to stay out of my way and let me get my work done, and that’s exactly what Pop OS is good for.
It was all shiny and nice until I started using it.
I stopped using Pop OS. I am using Linux Mint and I am very happy with it.
The main problem of the OS was its very poor power management. With Kubuntu/Mint, I get about 5.5 hours of battery backup from my laptop and when using Pop, I barely got 3. Yes, I get more than two hours more from using Kubuntu/Mint rather than Pop.
The wifi was problematic. I tried common fixes and they did not work. Internet was (testedly) slow always compared to other devices on the same network.
These are the main reasons why I decided to leave Pop OS. And then there are those problems which you get from using Linux distros in everyday life. They existed for Pop. This sounds vague. But things go wrong often. Regular Linux users will know.
Another major issue I must mention is freezing and outright crashing when the Pop Shop is launched. Installing something new was a costly endeavour. It was also a key factor in my decision to leave PopOS.
I have found Linux Mint to be the most usable, lowest maintenance distro out there (Arch requiring the highest maintenance). But I wanted my personal machine to look nice, so I tried Kubuntu, and I like it. I am not going back to Pop.
So it's Ubuntu (workstation) + Kubuntu / Mint (personal laptop) for me.
I stopped using Pop OS. I am using Linux Mint and I am very happy with it.
The main problem of the OS was its very poor power management. With Kubuntu/Mint, I get about 5.5 hours of battery backup from my laptop and when using Pop, I barely got 3. Yes, I get more than two hours more from using Kubuntu/Mint rather than Pop.
The wifi was problematic. I tried common fixes and they did not work. Internet was (testedly) slow always compared to other devices on the same network.
These are the main reasons why I decided to leave Pop OS. And then there are those problems which you get from using Linux distros in everyday life. They existed for Pop. This sounds vague. But things go wrong often. Regular Linux users will know.
Another major issue I must mention is freezing and outright crashing when the Pop Shop is launched. Installing something new was a costly endeavour. It was also a key factor in my decision to leave PopOS.
I have found Linux Mint to be the most usable, lowest maintenance distro out there (Arch requiring the highest maintenance). But I wanted my personal machine to look nice, so I tried Kubuntu, and I like it. I am not going back to Pop.
So it's Ubuntu (workstation) + Kubuntu / Mint (personal laptop) for me.
> The main problem of the OS was its very poor power management. With Kubuntu/Mint, I get about 5.5 hours of battery backup from my laptop and when using Pop, I barely got 3. Yes, I get more than two hours more from using Kubuntu/Mint rather than Pop.
I had the same experience. However, is your laptop a dual-GPU model? System76 enables hybrid graphics by default; most other distributions don't, and that can account for a significant power draw.
I had the same experience. However, is your laptop a dual-GPU model? System76 enables hybrid graphics by default; most other distributions don't, and that can account for a significant power draw.
so, I use PopOS and only really have 1 of those issues. My wifi will randomly not work coming out of sleep, but a disconnect and reconnect fixes that issue.
I do have 1 issue that I didn't see you mention, the trackpad will randomly not work. I have to put the computer back to sleep and re-wake it up and it works.
I do have 1 issue that I didn't see you mention, the trackpad will randomly not work. I have to put the computer back to sleep and re-wake it up and it works.
You seem to be confused, Linux doesn't have the problems you think it does. Im a daily Linux user and don't have these problems you're suggesting.
Have you made a bug report?
Have you made a bug report?
Sometimes I do.
With the previous Kubuntu installation, the VLC wouldn't fully close.
It would show up in the list of processes and also in the tray.
Turned out it was a common bug and I had to manually kill the process using flag -9.
It got fixed in the current version.
There are small problems rampant with desktop Linux distros that get in your way.
I have been using Linux as my daily driver since four years ago.
With the previous Kubuntu installation, the VLC wouldn't fully close.
It would show up in the list of processes and also in the tray.
Turned out it was a common bug and I had to manually kill the process using flag -9.
It got fixed in the current version.
There are small problems rampant with desktop Linux distros that get in your way.
I have been using Linux as my daily driver since four years ago.
I get being reflexively defensive of what seem to be secondhand opinions, but denialism like GP's is not helpful to anyone, including the desktop Linux community as a whole. :(
It's not denialism.. he's referring to Linux when he means to refer to specific software.
You can try and compare apple to Linux like that if you want but it's like complaining it's apples fault for docker on Mac sucking.
You can try and compare apple to Linux like that if you want but it's like complaining it's apples fault for docker on Mac sucking.
I'm confused.
A lot of people here coming from Windows and other Linux distros seem to appreciate how easy to use and out of the way is Pop OS.
And that's exactly how I'd describe my experience with Ubuntu proper.
Can someone who made the transition from Ubuntu to Pop OS tell us how big a difference there are between the two flavors?
A lot of people here coming from Windows and other Linux distros seem to appreciate how easy to use and out of the way is Pop OS.
And that's exactly how I'd describe my experience with Ubuntu proper.
Can someone who made the transition from Ubuntu to Pop OS tell us how big a difference there are between the two flavors?
I've used them both pretty extensively as well as Red Hat based distros. For me there's a few minor, but important enough to make me stay on pop, differences:
1. It uses systemd-boot as the boot loader. I like not having a grub menu, just turn on my computer and I'm basically on the login screen. It's seamless.
2. Flathub enabled out of the box. I find Flatpaks the best experience for lots of common apps like Slack, Teams, etc. It's a nice feature.
3. Nvidia support in the ISO/out of the box. Nice experience for Nvidia GPU users.
The rest of their stuff, like the windowing features etc, I don't really get much value out of. I like Gnome so I disable most of their stuff.
1. It uses systemd-boot as the boot loader. I like not having a grub menu, just turn on my computer and I'm basically on the login screen. It's seamless.
2. Flathub enabled out of the box. I find Flatpaks the best experience for lots of common apps like Slack, Teams, etc. It's a nice feature.
3. Nvidia support in the ISO/out of the box. Nice experience for Nvidia GPU users.
The rest of their stuff, like the windowing features etc, I don't really get much value out of. I like Gnome so I disable most of their stuff.
I really apologize, but this answer only made me even more confused:
1. I don't get the grub menu on any of my Ubuntu machines (except for the one I use to test stuff where many distros co-exist); I "just turn on my computer and I'm basically on the login screen. It's seamless."
2. Same. But with Snap. (I know that many people here don't like snaps for many reasons, and I do too, sometimes. But experience-wise, they're fine and comparable to Flutpaks. It's even possible to add Flathub if one's into that);
3. Installing Nvidia drivers is easy. And they're in the Ubuntu ISO since 19.10;
I like Gnome too, but I sure miss Unity so much!
1. I don't get the grub menu on any of my Ubuntu machines (except for the one I use to test stuff where many distros co-exist); I "just turn on my computer and I'm basically on the login screen. It's seamless."
2. Same. But with Snap. (I know that many people here don't like snaps for many reasons, and I do too, sometimes. But experience-wise, they're fine and comparable to Flutpaks. It's even possible to add Flathub if one's into that);
3. Installing Nvidia drivers is easy. And they're in the Ubuntu ISO since 19.10;
I like Gnome too, but I sure miss Unity so much!
Installing Nvidia drivers is easy if you know what you're doing.
For the last year I installed both Ubuntu 20.04 LTS and 21.04. Both times I had to opt out of installing proprietary drivers during installation to avoid getting a system freeze. Then, on first boot, I would open a new session before I even log in and install updates and nvidia drivers from there. Any attempts of using the GUI to install them would result to freezing. With Pop I never had to go through these loops, I just installed the Nvidia ISO and I was good to go.
I also get grub menu on startup with Ubuntu. It's like 3 or 5 seconds long but it's there, and I use EFI. But it's not a deal-breaker.
For the last year I installed both Ubuntu 20.04 LTS and 21.04. Both times I had to opt out of installing proprietary drivers during installation to avoid getting a system freeze. Then, on first boot, I would open a new session before I even log in and install updates and nvidia drivers from there. Any attempts of using the GUI to install them would result to freezing. With Pop I never had to go through these loops, I just installed the Nvidia ISO and I was good to go.
I also get grub menu on startup with Ubuntu. It's like 3 or 5 seconds long but it's there, and I use EFI. But it's not a deal-breaker.
> 2. Same. But with Snap. (I know that many people here don't like snaps for many reasons, and I do too, sometimes. But experience-wise, they're fine and comparable to Flutpaks. It's even possible to add Flathub if one's into that);
Snap is much worse at dependency sharing than Flatpak, which is surprisingly okay at it despite the container-based approach. This means that after you install your first one or two Snaps or Flatpaks, Flatpak is several times faster than Snap.
Snap has pretty atrocious download sizes and install times, plus noticeably slower app start times, even on NVMe and very fast internet. I definitely recommend directly comparing them.
(Keep both around of course, to leave whichever as a last resort for what's missing from the other.)
Snap is much worse at dependency sharing than Flatpak, which is surprisingly okay at it despite the container-based approach. This means that after you install your first one or two Snaps or Flatpaks, Flatpak is several times faster than Snap.
Snap has pretty atrocious download sizes and install times, plus noticeably slower app start times, even on NVMe and very fast internet. I definitely recommend directly comparing them.
(Keep both around of course, to leave whichever as a last resort for what's missing from the other.)
It has been a while since I used vanilla Ubuntu, so I apologise if some of my answers are outdated. Last I remember the Grub menu was still there. But yes for point 2 my view on Snaps was largely based on third party comments about the safety/usefulness of them compared to Flatpaks, much of which is may not be accurate any more as I've seen large projects (like Certbot) switch exclusively to Snap.
> 1. It uses systemd-boot as the boot loader. I like not having a grub menu, just turn on my computer and I'm basically on the login screen. It's seamless.
For those on other distros wondering about this behavior and whether they can get it: systemd-boot does support menus, and GRUB also supports bypassing the menu. Systemd-boot is quite good though. It's simpler to configure and less feature-complete than GRUB, and a great first choice for EFI setups.
For those on other distros wondering about this behavior and whether they can get it: systemd-boot does support menus, and GRUB also supports bypassing the menu. Systemd-boot is quite good though. It's simpler to configure and less feature-complete than GRUB, and a great first choice for EFI setups.
I'm a long time linux user.
One of the things I don't like about ubuntu is their updater stuff. I want to apt-get something, but can't because apparently ubuntu is updating stuff in the background...
Or sometimes these a dumb "system has detected a problem, send report?" dialog that pops up all the time.
PopOS experience is much better. I get an OS notification about available updates, and with two clicks I can decide to install them and so far, it hasn't harassed me with dumb pop-ups.
It's things like these where I find ubuntu very unpolished at times. And as I get older, I just want things to work and get out of my way.
One of the things I don't like about ubuntu is their updater stuff. I want to apt-get something, but can't because apparently ubuntu is updating stuff in the background...
Or sometimes these a dumb "system has detected a problem, send report?" dialog that pops up all the time.
PopOS experience is much better. I get an OS notification about available updates, and with two clicks I can decide to install them and so far, it hasn't harassed me with dumb pop-ups.
It's things like these where I find ubuntu very unpolished at times. And as I get older, I just want things to work and get out of my way.
There is one very significant philosophical issue with Ubuntu and it’s Canonical’s pushing of snap. The technology isn’t even necessarily bad, but how they’re tricking unsuspecting people into using it and entirely restricting you to their repositories absolutely is.
Pop OS removes that. They also round some other UX corners and customize the desktop a bit.
Pop OS removes that. They also round some other UX corners and customize the desktop a bit.
I recently switched from macOS to Pop OS, but I used Ubuntu as my Linux (in VMWare Fusion) for the previous 5 years.
Pop OS is essentially Ubuntu with a few enhancements. It is not a very different experience. I like the zero-effort, zero-config window tiling, and the 1-click disk encryption. But it's mainly like Ubuntu with a couple hours saved by delegating configuring some stuff and making a few choices to System76.
(I'm running it on a pretty standard Intel+NVIDIA+ASRock PC assembled by a local builder.)
Pop OS is essentially Ubuntu with a few enhancements. It is not a very different experience. I like the zero-effort, zero-config window tiling, and the 1-click disk encryption. But it's mainly like Ubuntu with a couple hours saved by delegating configuring some stuff and making a few choices to System76.
(I'm running it on a pretty standard Intel+NVIDIA+ASRock PC assembled by a local builder.)
The design is aligned with my preferences, its truly the only diff for me.
Ubuntu I cant stand the color and icon style each time I try, pop os it feels beautiful. Almost like a macos interface.
Ubuntu I cant stand the color and icon style each time I try, pop os it feels beautiful. Almost like a macos interface.
Wrote a detailed post about my move from macOS to Ubuntu (https://kvz.io/tobuntu.html), and so many seemingly experienced users commented I should try Pop!OS.
Now some Ubuntu releases and issues and HN threads like these later, I’m ready to give it a go. Will be installing it this holiday
Now some Ubuntu releases and issues and HN threads like these later, I’m ready to give it a go. Will be installing it this holiday
Have been using Pop OS as my daily driver on an i3 NUC10 for the past 9 months and i've got to say the experience has been relatively smooth. The only issues i've encountered so far are the occasional screen flickering when i run the android emulator and printing.
But funny enough I'm able to put up with these little inconveniences because after all it's a free OS. I find myself to be much more tolerant than when I was using MacOS and my macbook pro. Between the dead keys, apple tax, dongle life and the OS quirks ...
But funny enough I'm able to put up with these little inconveniences because after all it's a free OS. I find myself to be much more tolerant than when I was using MacOS and my macbook pro. Between the dead keys, apple tax, dongle life and the OS quirks ...
> But funny enough I'm able to put up with these little inconveniences because after all it's a free OS. I find myself to be much more tolerant than when I was using MacOS and my macbook pro. Between the dead keys, apple tax, dongle life and the OS quirks ...
For me, this is not so much a matter of cost but of transparency. When there's an annoyance I know I can easily pinpoint to a configuration issue I just haven't had time to play with, or a specific, known kernel module bug whose progress is being tracked publicly, it feels like my issue, my mess.
Linux problems feel like bits of clutter I've generated in my home and just haven't gotten around to tidying up yet. MacOS (and to a lesser extent, Windows) problems feel like a finicky and absent roommate's messes: I know little about where they came from (and I might as well not ask); I hope they'll go away on their own, but I really have no idea when they'll be resolved; and often it's best to just avoid touching or thinking about them, much as they annoy me.
Problems on non-free operating systems, especially very configuration-limited ones like macOS, are just too opaque and alienating for me to feel like I 'own' them. And that makes them infuriating in a way that Linux problems never are for me.
For me, this is not so much a matter of cost but of transparency. When there's an annoyance I know I can easily pinpoint to a configuration issue I just haven't had time to play with, or a specific, known kernel module bug whose progress is being tracked publicly, it feels like my issue, my mess.
Linux problems feel like bits of clutter I've generated in my home and just haven't gotten around to tidying up yet. MacOS (and to a lesser extent, Windows) problems feel like a finicky and absent roommate's messes: I know little about where they came from (and I might as well not ask); I hope they'll go away on their own, but I really have no idea when they'll be resolved; and often it's best to just avoid touching or thinking about them, much as they annoy me.
Problems on non-free operating systems, especially very configuration-limited ones like macOS, are just too opaque and alienating for me to feel like I 'own' them. And that makes them infuriating in a way that Linux problems never are for me.
This is funny, I am literally in the middle of writing an ISO of this OS to a USB stick to try installing on my laptop. I've been trying to find a good linux distro for a "2-in-1" laptop that has a stylus (Surface, Yoga, etc.)... Pop!_OS came up as a strong contender in discussions/posts I could find online. Guess I'll find out shortly! :)
Just to update, I was impressed with Pop!_OS on my "2-in-1". Turned on virtual keyboard under Accessibility settings, and got to drawing in Krita. I bound one of the buttons on the front of the screen to "undo" in Krita. Works quite well, though there are some issues I'll have to figure out, but so far Pop!_OS was the best by far of the ones I've tried. I was able to use all kinds of applications without issue. Going to install this as the long-term OS once I get an SSD to drop in this machine! Woot :)
Same, am currently re-partitioning to install Pop (via Ventoy USB as was posted yesterday).
I switched to Pop OS from Ubuntu about a year ago, and I love it. Stable, good battery life, everything just works. The auto-tiling works well, but what really made me faster was having dedicated keyboard shortcuts for specific apps.
For instance, Win+1 switches immediately to the open terminal window, and if it’s not already open, it opens it. Win+2 is the same for VS Code opened to the repo I work in most frequently. Win+3 for chrome, +4 for a text editor, etc. For comfort, on keyboards that don’t have a Win key on the right side, right ctrl gets rebound to that.
I don’t even need the dock anymore, because 95% of the time I’m switching between just a few apps. Alt+tab works for the remaining 5%.
For instance, Win+1 switches immediately to the open terminal window, and if it’s not already open, it opens it. Win+2 is the same for VS Code opened to the repo I work in most frequently. Win+3 for chrome, +4 for a text editor, etc. For comfort, on keyboards that don’t have a Win key on the right side, right ctrl gets rebound to that.
I don’t even need the dock anymore, because 95% of the time I’m switching between just a few apps. Alt+tab works for the remaining 5%.
Hey system76 if you're reading this the keys vault has various crashy behavior with different kids of ssh keys. I believe I took a putty exported openssh key and I could not import it via the UI. It's the underlying service that's buggy iirc. There's an existing open issue for it that I cannot find at this moment.
I love Pop OS, sadly I had to replace it with Ubuntu on my main laptop with an Nvidia graphics card because of some random crashes where it would close my session and the screen would turn gray with no way to get back from that without rebooting.
I've tried everything and I couldn't fix it. Now I'm on Ubuntu missing it every day.
I've tried everything and I couldn't fix it. Now I'm on Ubuntu missing it every day.
Have you tried the installer that contains nvidia drivers already installed?
Yes, of course, that's the one I used. I had it running maybe for a year until I decided to do a fresh install. that's when the problem started. Not even reinstalling it again solved it.
I have tried installing Pop!_OS 21.04 on 2 distinct models of computers - it would fail silently (the installation process sort of ends suspiciously quickly, then it won't boot) so I had to use Ubuntu instead (it still installs and boots without any problems). Pop!_OS 20.10 worked fine.
What sort of error did you see, if any? I had a similar issue, but a wiping the disk and setting up partitions again fixed it.
Not OP. The usb will add two boot options to the bios menu and grub installation failed with an error if you choose the wrong one. Everything else will work fine, but the installation will fail right at the end. The installation program will tell you to retry installation when that happens, which is kinda weird, because that suggests that they were encountering non deterministic errors when developing the installation program, and it wouldn't have helped in my case anyways. I would've gotten the exact same error message again.
> What sort of error did you see, if any?
No error. The installation seemed complete in some instants (way faster than Ubuntu or the previous Pop OS on the same machine), then GRUB would say it can't boot (I can't remember the exact phrase though but the fact it was GRUB suggests it's not about "secure boot", it was switched off anyway).
> but a wiping the disk and setting up partitions again fixed it.
In my case it didn't. Perhaps I should try some other way, e.g. text-mode fdisk.
No error. The installation seemed complete in some instants (way faster than Ubuntu or the previous Pop OS on the same machine), then GRUB would say it can't boot (I can't remember the exact phrase though but the fact it was GRUB suggests it's not about "secure boot", it was switched off anyway).
> but a wiping the disk and setting up partitions again fixed it.
In my case it didn't. Perhaps I should try some other way, e.g. text-mode fdisk.
I installed Pop OS on my Thinkpad after an OS update on Ubuntu started causing battery drain during suspend.
It did fix the battery drain issue. It also had good hybrid graphics support out of the box. I tried their tiling manager for a bit but switched back to i3.
It did fix the battery drain issue. It also had good hybrid graphics support out of the box. I tried their tiling manager for a bit but switched back to i3.
[edit] Pop OS made my macbook air 2012 usable and it became a delight to hack on Rust even given the hw limitations. Their attention to detail on top of a distro that I already respect for that is awesome. Long live Pop OS.
I’ve never tried Pop!_OS but I hear such good things about it from people that have that’s it’s on my rainy day list of things to have a toy with. That and NixOS - but for very different reasons.
I've been using Pop OS as my daily driver for several years now on my desktop with Nvidia videocard. Never before have I experienced such a stable Linux distro.
The only thing I haven't liked about Pop!_OS in my two years of daily driving has been the name. I think they need to rebrand as 76OS or something a little more professional. But that's so subjective.
Oh and I hope they make a laptop with a trackpoint eventually! I know that's the one thing preventing me from making the switch to their HW.
Oh and I hope they make a laptop with a trackpoint eventually! I know that's the one thing preventing me from making the switch to their HW.
Wow, I'm currently writing a USB drive with the 21.10 beta, considering switching from Ubuntu.
If I keep using it I'll support them. I want a company that cares about desktop Linux to succeed. For all the good they've done (and that Pop is building on), Canonical don't seem to give a stuff about consumer desktop Linux anymore.
If I keep using it I'll support them. I want a company that cares about desktop Linux to succeed. For all the good they've done (and that Pop is building on), Canonical don't seem to give a stuff about consumer desktop Linux anymore.
I switched from xubuntu to pop about two months ago and generally have a good time using it. I like the tiling wm and had to configure very little and except for the crappy WiFi stick everything worked out of the box.
Being the idiot that I am I thought I wouldn't need a swap file and now everytime my ram is full my system freezes entirely.
Being the idiot that I am I thought I wouldn't need a swap file and now everytime my ram is full my system freezes entirely.
earlyoom is your friend, if you don't care that the process with highest memory usage by default gets killed when shit hits the fan.
You can protect processes of your choice if you configure it beyond a apt install.
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man1/earlyoom.1.h...
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man1/earlyoom.1.h...
You won't need a Swap partition. You might as well create a Swapfile and use it for Swap without the need to repartition the disk.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/swap#Swap_file
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/swap#Swap_file
Writing this on my 12 year old HP Pavilion 23 all-in-one running Pop as a bedside device for streaming video and audio books. It's smooth and responsive even with multiple videos running and flipping between browser tabs.
I really love the company and use Pop OS. The only thing I would really love for them to do is focus on ZFS out of box experience.
Having the default encryption go Native ZFS encryption would be really great.
Having the default encryption go Native ZFS encryption would be really great.
Excuse me for asking, but why would you use ZFS on a laptop/desktop ? That's the target for PopOS.
There is this myth out there that ZFS is not for desktop/laptop. I have no idea why this is. There is no reason for that thinking. The developers of ZFS were using ZFS on desktop literally before it was finished, it was always intend to do both desktop and servers.
Its just that Solaris and FreeBSD systems were primary servers. If ZFS is the best file system, why not just use it?
I would really like to use native encrypted ZFS and then to encrypted backups with 'zfs send'. I would like good check sums, snapshots and all the features of ZFS.
Its simply overall the best system, I don't think there is really series competition. And the FS is one of the single most important parts of a OS. ZFS could be a major reason why people move to PopOS.
Its just that Solaris and FreeBSD systems were primary servers. If ZFS is the best file system, why not just use it?
I would really like to use native encrypted ZFS and then to encrypted backups with 'zfs send'. I would like good check sums, snapshots and all the features of ZFS.
Its simply overall the best system, I don't think there is really series competition. And the FS is one of the single most important parts of a OS. ZFS could be a major reason why people move to PopOS.
What myth ? ZFS is significantly slower than run-off-the-mill file systems (namely ext4) on small file random r/w IOPS. Which makes sense because it's made for throughput and redundancy, not latency.
It's a pretty shit file system for a single OS or a software development drive, unless you really need snapshots (you don't).
ZFS is made for big arrays of drives with lots of RAM. If that's not your use case, you're just wasting time and energy for the sake of it.
It's a pretty shit file system for a single OS or a software development drive, unless you really need snapshots (you don't).
ZFS is made for big arrays of drives with lots of RAM. If that's not your use case, you're just wasting time and energy for the sake of it.
Yeah. ZFS is great for single disks for laptops.
With ZFS Boot Environments you are bulletproof on upgrades and major changes.
Moar here: https://is.gd/BECTL
With ZFS Boot Environments you are bulletproof on upgrades and major changes.
Moar here: https://is.gd/BECTL
ZFS has a reputation as being rock-solid and having a ton of features. Both XFS and BTRFS replicate parts of it, but never really the whole thing.
... but I don’t think it should be the focus of a consumer focused distro since that’s quite an advanced functionality.
... but I don’t think it should be the focus of a consumer focused distro since that’s quite an advanced functionality.
Why not just use the best system, the features being advanced doesn't have to be a problem. The people that build the distro set this up, the users shouldn't really know or care.
But ontop of ZFS distors can build great stuff. Ubuntu is moving in that directin as well, but I don't like some of their choices.
Still one of the reasons to use Ubuntu over PopOS is the ZFS support.
But ontop of ZFS distors can build great stuff. Ubuntu is moving in that directin as well, but I don't like some of their choices.
Still one of the reasons to use Ubuntu over PopOS is the ZFS support.
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I use a Meerkat as my media/tv/PiHole/CCTV/NAS connection, and PopOS is a really great TV OS, I can't rate it enough.
it's like ubuntu but with little things changes here and there.
good thing is they are all the things that I wanted to change about ubuntu :D
good thing is they are all the things that I wanted to change about ubuntu :D
This tiling feature looks just like i3 or Sway.. pretty sure it is using it under the hood. Not sure why they changed the default shortcuts though, nor why they want to rename everything under the Pop OS brand.. rather than just give credit to the real contributors.
Its neither i3 nor Sway. Its their own implementation on top of GNOME. i3, sway are too complicated for first time users and requires lot of configuration and tweaks. Personally I found Pop Shell is the best thing that can get anyone started with simple toggle on/off, customisation of shortcuts and available out of the box.
https://github.com/pop-os/shell
https://github.com/pop-os/shell
May be you should check your case before making accusations? You can you be so sure yet so wrong.
It's using GNOME extensions. GNOME has it's own window manager called Mutter. You should Google stuff first before leaving comments like this
https://github.com/pop-os/shell
You're wrong
You're wrong
So a copycat implemented in JavaScript.
You sound like somebody who's sampled a grand total of 1 tiling wm and now thinks they know the field. You do not.
By your reasoning, i3 is a copycat of ION or wmii and shouldn't have even bothered.
There is plenty of room in the market for more tiling wm's. Yes, you can technically run i3 in conjunction with Gnome but then you are essentially losing all the QoL and floating features of Mutter including the expose view which I use heavily.
By your reasoning, i3 is a copycat of ION or wmii and shouldn't have even bothered.
There is plenty of room in the market for more tiling wm's. Yes, you can technically run i3 in conjunction with Gnome but then you are essentially losing all the QoL and floating features of Mutter including the expose view which I use heavily.
Don't all tilling VMs look alike (they have no look)? This is much more mouse friendly than i3 default.
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It's written in TypeScript...
I've been a Linux user since 1995/96, and a die hard Arch user for about 10 years. So why would I want a Linux distro that's super hands-off and easy to use?
It's incredibly stable. "Set it and forget it". If I want a bleeding edge version of software I can add it. It's performant, easy, and all my hardware works. It really just "stays out of my way" so I can get work done instead of tinkering. It's nice.
I still keep an Arch install around, but when I want to fire up a laptop and get to work without a single problem, Pop has been fantastic for it. I recommend it to new users, as well as old neckbeards like me.