Better.com CEO Vishal Garg steps back as employees detail how he ‘led by fear’(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Better.com CEO Vishal Garg steps back as employees detail how he ‘led by fear’
https://techcrunch.com/2021/12/10/better-com-ceo-vishal-garg-steps-back-as-employees-detail-how-he-led-by-fear/
99 comments
I bought my first house through them this year and it went pretty well, up until closing day. The interface is great, the rates were the best I could find, and it was mostly smooth...except...
At one point, Better asked what title company I wanted to use. They had a bunch of services under "you can shop for this, or use what we recommend", so I figured it was like that and said "I have no idea, I'll let you figure it out". Well they picked a closing company, and then my agent and the closing agent were like "oh we already picked one, can you change it?". So I forward along to Better, they say sure, but the website doesn't update. A couple days before closing it still doesn't update but they assure me it'll be fine. During closing, neither us nor the title company noticed it wasn't updated on the documents. And the check from Better hadn't showed up yet, but they figure it was a delay so they sent us home to our new house and told the sellers the check should be ready later that day. Around 3pm, after celebrating our new house, I get a panicked call from my agent. The money never showed up. Have I heard from Better at all? Nope. I call them. Can't get through to my loan officer. They finally call me back and say they sent the down payment to the original title company. They're going to try to get it back but it might not be today. And I need to go back to the title company to re-sign since it's all the wrong title company on the docs. The sellers are FURIOUS (they're supposed to move to another country in a couple days, understandable). When we get to the title company to resign, my agent says the sellers might take the keys back. We've started unpacking and our dogs are at the house. Better offers me $1500 off the closing costs, which we forward along to the sellers, so they're at least moderately pissed rather than furious. Right before 5, the money finally lands in the correct title company's account and they cut a check to the sellers. One of the happiest days turned into one of the most stressful days.
At one point, Better asked what title company I wanted to use. They had a bunch of services under "you can shop for this, or use what we recommend", so I figured it was like that and said "I have no idea, I'll let you figure it out". Well they picked a closing company, and then my agent and the closing agent were like "oh we already picked one, can you change it?". So I forward along to Better, they say sure, but the website doesn't update. A couple days before closing it still doesn't update but they assure me it'll be fine. During closing, neither us nor the title company noticed it wasn't updated on the documents. And the check from Better hadn't showed up yet, but they figure it was a delay so they sent us home to our new house and told the sellers the check should be ready later that day. Around 3pm, after celebrating our new house, I get a panicked call from my agent. The money never showed up. Have I heard from Better at all? Nope. I call them. Can't get through to my loan officer. They finally call me back and say they sent the down payment to the original title company. They're going to try to get it back but it might not be today. And I need to go back to the title company to re-sign since it's all the wrong title company on the docs. The sellers are FURIOUS (they're supposed to move to another country in a couple days, understandable). When we get to the title company to resign, my agent says the sellers might take the keys back. We've started unpacking and our dogs are at the house. Better offers me $1500 off the closing costs, which we forward along to the sellers, so they're at least moderately pissed rather than furious. Right before 5, the money finally lands in the correct title company's account and they cut a check to the sellers. One of the happiest days turned into one of the most stressful days.
Sellers never should have give you the keys until they had the money. That is on them.
> the rates were the best I could find,
That's what I've heard is their secret sauce. They spider the best rates on the web, and price a few bps lower so they always show up in google searches.
That's what I've heard is their secret sauce. They spider the best rates on the web, and price a few bps lower so they always show up in google searches.
I noticed that the rates were low but they added hidden fees to closing that other banks waved. Boa ended being much cheaper.
We used them ~three years ago, and seemed like our account manager was US-based.
I wonder if their recent 'success' with outsourcing is the primary impetus for the layoffs.
I wonder if their recent 'success' with outsourcing is the primary impetus for the layoffs.
Same. Very frustrating, but the money savings was substantial.
I refinanced with them last year and it was a "meh" experience. Their rates/fees were good, and the UI made it pretty easy to work with, but they were incredibly slow. I would have understood - it was a really busy time for refis - but the work flow would go something like this:
They'd ask for a document that they hadn't asked for previously and make a big deal that I needed to provide it to them in the next few hours or else we'd lose our rate, then when I did provide it I wouldn't hear from them for 2 weeks. Overall, even with an appraisal waiver, it took like 3 months for it to go through and I never waited more than a day to respond to requests for info/documents.
They'd ask for a document that they hadn't asked for previously and make a big deal that I needed to provide it to them in the next few hours or else we'd lose our rate, then when I did provide it I wouldn't hear from them for 2 weeks. Overall, even with an appraisal waiver, it took like 3 months for it to go through and I never waited more than a day to respond to requests for info/documents.
My experience exactly, though they also asked for the same document multiple times.
Yes! That too!
A lot of this started after the rate lock was set to expire and they had to keep extending it (costing them a bit of money each time), so part of me thought the whole "You have until tomorrow morning to send us this document you've already sent us 3 times, or else your lock will expire" was a way for them to get out of it, but more likely it was just incompetence/overwork.
A lot of this started after the rate lock was set to expire and they had to keep extending it (costing them a bit of money each time), so part of me thought the whole "You have until tomorrow morning to send us this document you've already sent us 3 times, or else your lock will expire" was a way for them to get out of it, but more likely it was just incompetence/overwork.
Sounds like a poorly managed operation.
Front end UI is slick but at the backend they did not have proper CRM workflows. Marketing mindset and not a product tech one.
Front end UI is slick but at the backend they did not have proper CRM workflows. Marketing mindset and not a product tech one.
what if i told you that this is the business model for a lot of SV startups ;)
>It seems like the model is to have a slick UI and hire contractors from India with second rate English skills handle the grunt work
Seems more and more common unfortunately
Seems more and more common unfortunately
The obvious thing for local good mortgage brokers/originators to hire some UX designers and get themselves a slick ui too. And yet, for a lot of them the UI is atrocious. It can't be that expensive, so it looks like they just do not care.
Did refi with them twice, all was smooth and the grunt work people spoke perfect English (at least as much as I could tell). Their UI is one of the best I've experienced so far (detailed task lists really help) and the process was mostly painless. YMMV of course.
He already had a reputation for using abusive language in emails to employees, but the treatment toward his investors was yet another shock.
Abusing employees is more or less expected, out in techland.
Ruffle investors' feathers, however, and there may be consequences.
Abusing employees is more or less expected, out in techland.
Ruffle investors' feathers, however, and there may be consequences.
Maybe expected but certainly not accepted. In tech the only way to gain respect is to know what you are doing, shouting and using abusive language makes you lose that respect.
Keep it up, and you have to start looking for a new employee.
Keep it up, and you have to start looking for a new employee.
In tech the only way to gain respect is to know what you are doing, shouting and using abusive language makes you lose that respect.
That's the platonic ideal, at least. The reality on the ground is often far different.
That's the platonic ideal, at least. The reality on the ground is often far different.
If your career is in tech sure but Garg's of the world are seldom one of us. In business world the end justifies the means. This type of behavior is not only tolerated but often encouraged. This is only becoming an issue now because the story went viral and is generating bad press which is bad for profits.
> Ruffle investors' feathers, however, and there may be consequences.
Because that's their main power
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29320078 Your Board of Directors is Probably Going to Fire You 718 points
Because that's their main power
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29320078 Your Board of Directors is Probably Going to Fire You 718 points
> Abusing employees is more or less expected, out in techland.
Which techland do you live in? In my techland there are tons of jobs at places without abusive leadership where you can get a job in a few weeks. No one I know in my land expects this sort of treatment as everyone knows it won't stand.
Which techland do you live in? In my techland there are tons of jobs at places without abusive leadership where you can get a job in a few weeks. No one I know in my land expects this sort of treatment as everyone knows it won't stand.
I guess it depends on what they meant by "techland".
I think companies who are tech companies or where tech is central to the product tend to attract good tech leaders who treat their teams well.
But at companies where tech is seen as a secondary to the product tech employees are sometimes treated poorly, with things like overwork/abuse of agile processes to extract more work out of developers, unsustainable on-call rotations, unreasonable support response expectations, understaffed teams, restricted budgets, inadequate equipment like super cheap budget laptops, etc.
Sure they might add a foosball table and buy a pizza once in a while, but by and large many companies don't treated tech especially well. I'm not sure if it is a lack of respect (some companies see developers as a pluggable commodity) or resentment for having to pay them more than they think they should have to.
I guess it depends on where you live, but some cities just don't have a lot of pure tech companies, so you are stuck with places like these.
I think companies who are tech companies or where tech is central to the product tend to attract good tech leaders who treat their teams well.
But at companies where tech is seen as a secondary to the product tech employees are sometimes treated poorly, with things like overwork/abuse of agile processes to extract more work out of developers, unsustainable on-call rotations, unreasonable support response expectations, understaffed teams, restricted budgets, inadequate equipment like super cheap budget laptops, etc.
Sure they might add a foosball table and buy a pizza once in a while, but by and large many companies don't treated tech especially well. I'm not sure if it is a lack of respect (some companies see developers as a pluggable commodity) or resentment for having to pay them more than they think they should have to.
I guess it depends on where you live, but some cities just don't have a lot of pure tech companies, so you are stuck with places like these.
I agree that there are places like that, I worked at one briefly.. the key there being the word 'briefly'. As soon as it got annoying I started looking and had a new job pretty quick.
Lack of mobility used to be an issue as well, but with all the current remote work possibilities this is no longer the case. The bad employers will end up with the bottom of the barrel, just like in cities with lots of good options, as all their talent will be able to find work elsewhere.
Lack of mobility used to be an issue as well, but with all the current remote work possibilities this is no longer the case. The bad employers will end up with the bottom of the barrel, just like in cities with lots of good options, as all their talent will be able to find work elsewhere.
Great points.
I work in consulting, so thankfully I don't get stuck somewhere bad for long, but I have seen it first hand on many occasions. Enough to be jaded I guess.
You're right that remote work helps this a lot.
I do think that landing a remote job is probably more difficult for someone who is only an average / mediocre developer. You're competing against a larger pool of talented developers.
I work in consulting, so thankfully I don't get stuck somewhere bad for long, but I have seen it first hand on many occasions. Enough to be jaded I guess.
You're right that remote work helps this a lot.
I do think that landing a remote job is probably more difficult for someone who is only an average / mediocre developer. You're competing against a larger pool of talented developers.
> Sure they might add a foosball table and buy a pizza once in a while, but by and large many companies don't treated tech especially well. I'm not sure if it is a lack of respect (some companies see developers as a pluggable commodity) or resentment for having to pay them more than they think they should have to.
And they tend to get crushed by real tech companies. Honestly the test is pretty simple; if you go grab a drink and it's anything other than free and if you see anything other than retina screens on the floor it's a red flag.
If you go as far as to negotiate an offer and it's not exclusively engineers or former engineers between you and the CEO or if there's no stocks/equity you know you are off to a pretty bad start.
> I guess it depends on where you live, but some cities just don't have a lot of pure tech companies, so you are stuck with places like these.
Just come to the valley/work remote.
And they tend to get crushed by real tech companies. Honestly the test is pretty simple; if you go grab a drink and it's anything other than free and if you see anything other than retina screens on the floor it's a red flag.
If you go as far as to negotiate an offer and it's not exclusively engineers or former engineers between you and the CEO or if there's no stocks/equity you know you are off to a pretty bad start.
> I guess it depends on where you live, but some cities just don't have a lot of pure tech companies, so you are stuck with places like these.
Just come to the valley/work remote.
Appreciate the general point, but, um ... Retinas aren't everything.
There are monitors with fine enough colors, and (actually more important my PoV) better base / stand infrastructure, for example. And don't know about you, but some us don't particularly like seeing that dystopian forbidden fruit logo everywhere you look. Or supporting the company behind it any more than strictly necessary.
Point being - yes, beware of sweat shops with substandard hardware. But brands aren't where it's at.
Oh and also: just give me decent cash comp, 40 hours at most, and a useful amount of actual, real PTO (not this "unlimited PTO" nonsense). And an office (to the extent I have to be there) that doesn't make me feel like I'm losing plasma by the end of the day. And investors that don't make my skin crawl, please.
Equity is nice, but it's just gravy.
There are monitors with fine enough colors, and (actually more important my PoV) better base / stand infrastructure, for example. And don't know about you, but some us don't particularly like seeing that dystopian forbidden fruit logo everywhere you look. Or supporting the company behind it any more than strictly necessary.
Point being - yes, beware of sweat shops with substandard hardware. But brands aren't where it's at.
Oh and also: just give me decent cash comp, 40 hours at most, and a useful amount of actual, real PTO (not this "unlimited PTO" nonsense). And an office (to the extent I have to be there) that doesn't make me feel like I'm losing plasma by the end of the day. And investors that don't make my skin crawl, please.
Equity is nice, but it's just gravy.
I agree with everything you said except this point.
> And they tend to get crushed by real tech companies.
You'd be surprised how many legacy businesses are out there, places in the US other than the west coast, who are thriving still and haven't been disrupted.
Things like banking, insurance, manufacturing, healthcare. All of these industries have competition from startups, but are far from being crushed by them... Not yet at least.
I like your litmus tests though. I think it is helpful for people to have some specific things they look out for as red flags, as some "little things" can really be an early indicator into how it would be to work there.
> And they tend to get crushed by real tech companies.
You'd be surprised how many legacy businesses are out there, places in the US other than the west coast, who are thriving still and haven't been disrupted.
Things like banking, insurance, manufacturing, healthcare. All of these industries have competition from startups, but are far from being crushed by them... Not yet at least.
I like your litmus tests though. I think it is helpful for people to have some specific things they look out for as red flags, as some "little things" can really be an early indicator into how it would be to work there.
> Things like banking, insurance, manufacturing, healthcare. All of these industries have competition from startups, but are far from being crushed by them... Not yet at least.
All of these are either low margins or extremely regulated (healthcare). Not interesting targets.
All of these are either low margins or extremely regulated (healthcare). Not interesting targets.
Why? When engineer salaries are quite good, many engineers are able to easily move laterally between top firms. It should not be normalized to be awful to your employees.
Worked in tech for decades, had some very heated disagreements many times, never had abusive language used towards me by bosses or used it myself towards colleagues or subordinates. I don't think it's expected. It happens, but it's not a normal thing.
I refinanced with the at the beginning of this year. If they had a toxic internal culture they did a great job hiding it from their customers, because I had an amazing experience with incredible customer service.
I'm not saying the culture isn't toxic, I'm saying it's surprising how well they hid it.
I'm not saying the culture isn't toxic, I'm saying it's surprising how well they hid it.
I've had amazing experiences at any number of restaurants that I later discovered treat staff horribly (Urasawa, Mario Batoli come to mind).
Abusers work very hard to make sure other people don't realize what's going on behind the scenes (whether that's the office, or at home).
Abusers work very hard to make sure other people don't realize what's going on behind the scenes (whether that's the office, or at home).
I financed my first mortgage and refi through Better. They did ping me about once a week even when there was nothing for either of us to do while waiting for an appraisal. I got the feeling they were hitting arbitrary engagement quotas.
Compared to my experience with Rocket it was great. I sat on a phone with Rocket for hours having them put me on hold and go to a manager to negotiate rates only for them to have shuffled the numbers around so that the interest rate looked lower, but the total cost of the loan broke even due to extra points and fees rolled into the loan. The salesperson was manic and desperate. They pretended to have a nice async process on the front end, but they end up dumping me into a phone call at the end where I had to tell them everything I just typed in. Several other online companies had similar tactics. The worst was one that just harvested my info and sold it to every shady lender who proceeded to call me non-stop for weeks.
Compared to my experience with Rocket it was great. I sat on a phone with Rocket for hours having them put me on hold and go to a manager to negotiate rates only for them to have shuffled the numbers around so that the interest rate looked lower, but the total cost of the loan broke even due to extra points and fees rolled into the loan. The salesperson was manic and desperate. They pretended to have a nice async process on the front end, but they end up dumping me into a phone call at the end where I had to tell them everything I just typed in. Several other online companies had similar tactics. The worst was one that just harvested my info and sold it to every shady lender who proceeded to call me non-stop for weeks.
Rocket is known in the Detroit area for having a boiler room culture and a cult like mindset. Not surprised to hear that the person on the other end of the line was manic, probably was under intense pressure.
I remember talking with an investor about a founder CEO and said I was friends with a lot of his employees who say he's a bully. The investor shrugged and then said with a smile but he's a bully who gets results.
Until the day arrives when they were shocked to find themselves on ... the receiving end of that very same treatment.
Hated that company when I was shopping for a refinance. They had the slickest website (which is probably why they call themeselves fintech) but were extremely opaque about their quotes even after they forced me to answer 100s of detailed personal finance questions. And very spammy
And their rates/pricing wasn't even any better than other places, just obfuscated so it was harder to compare.
Both of these are the opposite of my experience with them. You could fiddle with down payment, price, and points to your heart's content and it'd spit out a quote for you. Also a few thousand cheaper than other places.
I fiddled with the numbers for hours, but everything came up either basically the same or more expensive than the direct quote from another lender.
they are literally the only service I've been able to find that quotes you for free without needing an SSN/email on file.
Looks like he didn't maximize shareholder value!
I still have a tab open in my browser from week's ago.
LinkedIn: 50 Top Startups in the U.S.
#1 Better [Financial Services]
LinkedIn: 50 Top Startups in the U.S.
#1 Better [Financial Services]
> Garg “leads by fear,” she said, preferring not to be named. “Nothing is ever good enough. He would threaten employees to work harder, faster and not be lazy, but there was never clarity on what the consequences might be.”
Standard toxic leadership.
Standard toxic leadership.
Every story that's come out since this mess started vidates the bad vibes I got from their recruiter on the first call, and my decision to walk away.
I did a search here just to figure out what Better.com did without visiting their web page, and the results are quite a saga:
> Simple, Online Mortgage – Better Mortgage (3 years ago)
> Better.com CEO Vishal Garg Threatened to Burn His Business Partner Alive (2 months ago)
> Better.com CEO Vishal Garg lays off 15% of employees [video] (7 days ago)
> Better.com CEO blasts laid-off employees, accusing them of ‘stealing’ (4 days ago)
> The Better.com CEO says he’s ‘deeply sorry’ for firing workers over Zoom (2 days ago)
> Better.com's's CEO is 'taking time off effective immediately' (2 hours ago)
> Simple, Online Mortgage – Better Mortgage (3 years ago)
> Better.com CEO Vishal Garg Threatened to Burn His Business Partner Alive (2 months ago)
> Better.com CEO Vishal Garg lays off 15% of employees [video] (7 days ago)
> Better.com CEO blasts laid-off employees, accusing them of ‘stealing’ (4 days ago)
> The Better.com CEO says he’s ‘deeply sorry’ for firing workers over Zoom (2 days ago)
> Better.com's's CEO is 'taking time off effective immediately' (2 hours ago)
> Mortgages, Fraud Claims And 'Dumb Dolphins': A Tangled Past Haunts Better.com CEO Vishal Garg (1 year ago)
I was tempted to do the same to my business partner. After he bailed on me the day before we were going to close a funding round, among other things.
I think about that quote from Elon sometimes, that starting a company is like eating glass and staring into the abyss.
I think about that quote from Elon sometimes, that starting a company is like eating glass and staring into the abyss.
I think your situation is different.
> His former business partner and college friend, Raza Khan, claims that Garg improperly moved $3 million from a software company the two men started to his personal bank accounts, and then used stolen technology to help build Better. Garg denies those claims and is countersuing, in a dispute so bitter that during a deposition Garg threatened to burn his former friend alive.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidjeans/2020/11/20/mortgages...
> His former business partner and college friend, Raza Khan, claims that Garg improperly moved $3 million from a software company the two men started to his personal bank accounts, and then used stolen technology to help build Better. Garg denies those claims and is countersuing, in a dispute so bitter that during a deposition Garg threatened to burn his former friend alive.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidjeans/2020/11/20/mortgages...
Yeah, I was exaggerating. While my situation sucked, it definitely wasn't as bad is this.
Don't forget the wild email he sent to one of Better.com's largest investors. You can't make this stuff up.
Link: https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkpgkm/bettercom-ceo-called-...
Link: https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkpgkm/bettercom-ceo-called-...
Wow...
One of the wildest things I have ever read
Can't blame him, those investors sound pretty terrible...
I don't think he is any different the vast majority of CEOs/Entrepreneurs. He just got caught being bad.
Sure, let's take the example set by specific individuals and extrapolate that to an entire group of people that share some commonalities. That usually works well.
We have a wide range of those: Muslims are terrorists. Farmers are racist Ku Klux Klan followers. Black dudes are just waiting to steal your car. So we can add: CEO and entrepreneurs are abusive assholes.
We have a wide range of those: Muslims are terrorists. Farmers are racist Ku Klux Klan followers. Black dudes are just waiting to steal your car. So we can add: CEO and entrepreneurs are abusive assholes.
Jesus. How did this guy ever manage to become a CEO?
being aggressive is a pretty good strat to being successful, dickish or otherwise.
Why is this surprising? Elon Musk for one is known to act like this. Many other CEOs as well
[deleted]
Sounds like his mental health issues finally caught up with him and resulted in involuntary burnout.
I'm not sure it's mental health issues so much as "got away with being a bad person to work with and then couldn't anymore".
Looking in from the outside, it seems like he kept more or less succeeding (financially, in the eyes of friends/family, etc), while doing dodgier things and insulting more people, which spurred him to keep going along as before. Eventually he flew too close to the sun.
Looking in from the outside, it seems like he kept more or less succeeding (financially, in the eyes of friends/family, etc), while doing dodgier things and insulting more people, which spurred him to keep going along as before. Eventually he flew too close to the sun.
Your appraisal seems accurate to me.
Thanks for doing this!
At first I was defending this CEO as there is no good way to lay off employees.
"Better.com CEO Vishal Garg Threatened to Burn His Business Partner Alive"
Huh what the fuck?
"Better.com CEO Vishal Garg Threatened to Burn His Business Partner Alive"
Huh what the fuck?
This story is only getting better and better.com
This guy is fascinating (in a bad way). In what universe can you call your employees: DUMB DOLPHINS (with all caps)?
I find it interesting that the only reason the investors took any action was because of the attention this is getting in the press. As many have already read, Garg had a reputation for bad behavior yet SoftBank and his other investors let it play out leading up to their SPAC.
I feel like we watched this movie before.
**cough**WeWork**cough**
I feel like we watched this movie before.
**cough**WeWork**cough**
Two takeaways from this is:
1. Be a nice boss.
2. Fire people as discretely as legally possible. Don't do it over a Zoom call that will leak and make you the face of the #EvilCEO archetype the Internet hates so much.
1. Be a nice boss.
2. Fire people as discretely as legally possible. Don't do it over a Zoom call that will leak and make you the face of the #EvilCEO archetype the Internet hates so much.
I've known some leaders who feel that yelling at employees can get better performance out of them. Most of the time, I think this is the wrong way to proceed, but I admit, I've seen cases where the strategic use of anger did seem to get some kind of result. I wrote of one situation here, between a CTO and the best devops guy I ever knew:
https://demodexio.substack.com/p/the-hearts-of-men-american-...
But keep in mind, in that situation, I am fairly sure the CTO was only pretending to be angry, which is to say, his anger was under control, and was deployed for a specific purpose.
As a general rule, self-control is essential to pragmatic leadership. By contrast, Vishal Garg's behavior does not seem strategic, and he does not seem to be under self-control. I wrote some thoughts about how destructive this kind of leadership can be here:
http://www.smashcompany.com/business/self-control-is-essenti...
https://demodexio.substack.com/p/the-hearts-of-men-american-...
But keep in mind, in that situation, I am fairly sure the CTO was only pretending to be angry, which is to say, his anger was under control, and was deployed for a specific purpose.
As a general rule, self-control is essential to pragmatic leadership. By contrast, Vishal Garg's behavior does not seem strategic, and he does not seem to be under self-control. I wrote some thoughts about how destructive this kind of leadership can be here:
http://www.smashcompany.com/business/self-control-is-essenti...
Wow, that CTO sounds psychopathic. Nothing in that conversation required him to shout or (pretend to) get angry. I have no respect for people that use violence, even verbal, to get their way.
The use of the anger was very manipulative. I find it interesting that it was then the beginning of a long partnership. They worked together at several startups for the next few years. I'm not clear that anger was the only way to establish whether the devops guy was getting the work done correctly, but I've certainly met a few managers who seem to think the strategic use of anger is useful. At the same time, what I've seen more commonly is the unstrategic use of anger, where people rage, rage, rage, for no purpose and no gain. It's amazing to me how often I've seen unhinged behavior in people who are in top leadership positions. I wrote of one extreme case in How To Destroy A Tech Startup:
https://www.amazon.com/Destroy-Tech-Startup-Three-Steps-eboo...
https://www.amazon.com/Destroy-Tech-Startup-Three-Steps-eboo...
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs yelled at employees a lot. Whether they did so as an intentional technique or a byproduct of having a short temper, I don't know. Any insight into that?
I addressed this issue directly on page 151 of How To Destroy A Tech Startup. I've just posted some photos of 151/152, if you'd like to read that:
https://demodexio.substack.com/p/psychopaths-versus-good-bos...
https://demodexio.substack.com/p/psychopaths-versus-good-bos...
Thanks! Your formulation makes a lot of sense.
Bill Gates is just an incel with an unusually large brain so no big surprise. And Steve Jobs was an entitled lying cheating stealing fuckboy so no big surprise there either
In my experience it is to the contrary. It's the leaders that can be angry without lashing out that get the best reactions from employees. There have been a few moments in my career where one of the teams has just genuinely made a big, avoidable, mistake one too many times and that has the respective leader's blood rise. They _demand_ to know just how we messed up, yet whilst visibly angry, they didn't raise their voice, they didn't need to berate. They just assertively demanded answers and I've never seen a roomful of people quite so eager to present answers and assurances in any other form of conflict.
This has been on my mind lately. I've had some pretty extreme conversations with colleagues. Some of them in retrospect come across as tense, and others just seem like inappropriate bullying. I've wrestled with whether leaving the situations where I felt abused I was just being sensitive
In time I've concluded it's about trust or something. It's one thing if I feel like the person is on the same side and we both want to do better. When I feel like the other person isn't acting in good faith though, or is just doing things that are unnecessarily abusive, it's different.
In time I've concluded it's about trust or something. It's one thing if I feel like the person is on the same side and we both want to do better. When I feel like the other person isn't acting in good faith though, or is just doing things that are unnecessarily abusive, it's different.
It may well be true that boss anger, strategic or not, can produce results. That doesn't make it right or acceptable
Wasn’t Steve Jobs famous for screaming at people over the phone and in person? Pretending this is all some power move seems less credible than these people just being unchecked for too long due to their position.
The culture sounds really toxic and that usually comes from the top. Sounds like the board took necessary action to address things.
Just comes off as a very immature CEO.
I worked for a nice version of this, spot raises, flying around trying to aquire other companies. Drinks on the company card. Every Friday we'd go out drinking !
The it happens, we're all brought into a room. Given 2 weeks serverance. Apparently we forgot to make money. The CEO apologized to each one of us personally, I said thank you.
If your going to be immature at least be kind.
I hope if I'm ever CEO I'm just stupid and not mean
I worked for a nice version of this, spot raises, flying around trying to aquire other companies. Drinks on the company card. Every Friday we'd go out drinking !
The it happens, we're all brought into a room. Given 2 weeks serverance. Apparently we forgot to make money. The CEO apologized to each one of us personally, I said thank you.
If your going to be immature at least be kind.
I hope if I'm ever CEO I'm just stupid and not mean
Tried to use them for a purchase a few months ago. My situation was slightly non-standard but nothing major.
After filling out their questions I was pre-approved almost immediately. When their broker emailed me for details though, I explained my situation and rather than looking into it at all he just told me it probably wouldn't work.
I was able to make the purchase through another mortgage broker a few weeks later so I don't think my situation was actually all that complicated, it seemed like their broker just couldn't be bothered.
As a bonus they sold my info to a real estate broker who continued to harass me for weeks even after I told them to stop contacting me.
After filling out their questions I was pre-approved almost immediately. When their broker emailed me for details though, I explained my situation and rather than looking into it at all he just told me it probably wouldn't work.
I was able to make the purchase through another mortgage broker a few weeks later so I don't think my situation was actually all that complicated, it seemed like their broker just couldn't be bothered.
As a bonus they sold my info to a real estate broker who continued to harass me for weeks even after I told them to stop contacting me.
> “at least 250 of the people terminated were working an average of 2 hours a day while clocking in 8 hours+ a day in the payroll system
How much of that was employee theft, and how much of that was Better.com simply being overstaffed? Hence the layoffs that were (most probably) agreed to in the most recent raise.
How much of that was employee theft, and how much of that was Better.com simply being overstaffed? Hence the layoffs that were (most probably) agreed to in the most recent raise.
Why do people behave like this?
it is widely acknowledged in some psychological literature that certain professions are collecting abusive or even psycopathic personalities. The behavior is reinforced with reward and prestige in some cases.
search term might be "is your boss a psycopath" or similar
search term might be "is your boss a psycopath" or similar
I tried to refinance with better.com a few months back. The quality of service was just not there. Mortgages are still very paper intensive processes with lots of middlemen and lots of procedures. You can build a slick interface but it's going to a hamster wheel behind the scenes. And if you can't have a good customer service people are just going to steer towards someone who does and can hand hold you along the way.
I refinanced through better.com about this time last year. I just found them randomly through better.com.
They were great. Everything was automated through a decent web site. Everything signed electronically except closing where they sent an attorney to my house.
They also never called me unless I wanted, everything was through their web site.
This is in contrast to previous mortgages that were paper based and full of people who didn’t seem very tech savvy and wanted faxes, multiple phone calls just to review stuff.
And their estimates were all exact with closing. And closing was early.
I was always amazed how shitty the processes were for mortgage so it was nice that somebody finally set up some simple RPA.
If I refinance again, I’ll probably use them.
They were great. Everything was automated through a decent web site. Everything signed electronically except closing where they sent an attorney to my house.
They also never called me unless I wanted, everything was through their web site.
This is in contrast to previous mortgages that were paper based and full of people who didn’t seem very tech savvy and wanted faxes, multiple phone calls just to review stuff.
And their estimates were all exact with closing. And closing was early.
I was always amazed how shitty the processes were for mortgage so it was nice that somebody finally set up some simple RPA.
If I refinance again, I’ll probably use them.
You gotta give it to China, for all their faults, at least they would have executed this guy
No they wouldn't have. If you think working for a Chinese company in China is better, I suggest a little more research. For starters, you'll work longer hours and there's less questioning authority.
Yeah you're prob right, who am I kidding
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I do like how he blasted the shit firehose at that investor guy, hehe. But yelling down at your employees is another matter entirely...you just don't do that
It seems like the model is to have a slick UI and hire contractors from India with second rate English skills handle the grunt work. There were multiple instances where there was miscommunication, no reply, or we couldn't get ahold of someone to get the current status. Overall it was really frustrating.