Don't Waste the Good Days(seths.blog)
seths.blog
Don't Waste the Good Days
https://seths.blog/2021/12/dont-waste-the-good-days/
332 comments
> I'd have played fewer video games, traveled less, and relaxed on the beach less.
This seems totally opposite of what old people say on their death bed. You sound so obsessed with money here. My guess is your probably very wealthy relative to the average peer and your too naive to realize it. You have to keep telling yourself this philosophy to justify not wind surfing in Bali.
You think your gonna wind surf when your 60? You think it's smart to spend your 'non arthritis' fingers on coding?
This seems totally opposite of what old people say on their death bed. You sound so obsessed with money here. My guess is your probably very wealthy relative to the average peer and your too naive to realize it. You have to keep telling yourself this philosophy to justify not wind surfing in Bali.
You think your gonna wind surf when your 60? You think it's smart to spend your 'non arthritis' fingers on coding?
Lots of people I know in a generation or two above me regret not saving when they were younger. Now they're nervous about being 70 and having to retire soon but not feeling stable, or feeling that they may financially burden their children.
Compounding interest on money means, as previously mentioned, money you earn at 20 will be 10x as valuable compared to money earned towards a typical retirement age. With tech having strong early salaries and heavy stock compensation I think this is even more the case.
> You think your gonna wind surf when your 60? You think it's smart to spend your 'non arthritis' fingers on coding?
How about 40? Because if you start working at 21 in tech and you're aggressive about your career that's when you can retire.
Do experiences compound? Will I enjoy an experience more at 25 than 45? Maybe, and there's always some balance, of course. No one should work themselves to death.
But I worked obscene hours for my first 4 years of my career, lived with many roommates, and saved a lot of money. And I started years later than most, as I entered the market at 24 instead of 21.
It buys me great peace of mind to know that I am financially stable and independent, that I can take care of friends and family who are not, and that I have bought myself decades of retirement.
Compounding interest on money means, as previously mentioned, money you earn at 20 will be 10x as valuable compared to money earned towards a typical retirement age. With tech having strong early salaries and heavy stock compensation I think this is even more the case.
> You think your gonna wind surf when your 60? You think it's smart to spend your 'non arthritis' fingers on coding?
How about 40? Because if you start working at 21 in tech and you're aggressive about your career that's when you can retire.
Do experiences compound? Will I enjoy an experience more at 25 than 45? Maybe, and there's always some balance, of course. No one should work themselves to death.
But I worked obscene hours for my first 4 years of my career, lived with many roommates, and saved a lot of money. And I started years later than most, as I entered the market at 24 instead of 21.
It buys me great peace of mind to know that I am financially stable and independent, that I can take care of friends and family who are not, and that I have bought myself decades of retirement.
> Do experiences compound? Will I enjoy an experience more at 25 than 45? Maybe, and there's always some balance, of course. No one should work themselves to death.
There are experiences you may be incapable of considering later in life. Doing stupid, immature shit is fun and forms a person in many ways. Some errors are also better made earlier.
There are experiences you may be incapable of considering later in life. Doing stupid, immature shit is fun and forms a person in many ways. Some errors are also better made earlier.
Yeah I mean I'm not advocating for some sort of monk-like isolation where you have No Fun and work 24/7. Just as I'm sure people aren't suggesting living a wild life where no consequences or future is considered.
I'm just saying that tipping the balance for a few years can be a really good tradeoff, and to counter the "deathbed" anecdote above.
I'm just saying that tipping the balance for a few years can be a really good tradeoff, and to counter the "deathbed" anecdote above.
I completely agree. Bones heal faster when you're young!
I think many experiences do compound. Most people who take the traditional path of working straight after school trade security for reference experiences which help in understanding what they want, and helping deal with challenges further down the line. For some this is fine, security is what they want and the 'what ifs' and opportunity cost on growth experiences will not bother them. For others this may cause more existential problems down the line.
As a generalising anecdote, some of the greatest people I have worked with had very non-traditional paths early on, and I find them to have a greater 'big picture' sense, more resiliency and more humour in the face of adversity. But are not as rich in their 40s as others.
As a generalising anecdote, some of the greatest people I have worked with had very non-traditional paths early on, and I find them to have a greater 'big picture' sense, more resiliency and more humour in the face of adversity. But are not as rich in their 40s as others.
I think the question of how experiences compound is totally interesting and worth asking (which is why I did :P). It's something I think is worth considering when thinking through how you prioritize your life and your goals.
Doing things that make you a happier, healthier (mentally and physically) person at age 25 my seriously pay off vs doing those things at age 45. In fact I strongly suspect they do.
Doing things that make you a happier, healthier (mentally and physically) person at age 25 my seriously pay off vs doing those things at age 45. In fact I strongly suspect they do.
> Do experiences compound? Will I enjoy an experience more at 25 than 45? Maybe, and there's always some balance, of course. No one should work themselves to death.
It doesn't really have to compound. If you travel a few weeks every other year in your 20s or 30s it adds up to a lot more experiences than if you hadn't. When you get up to 40 it makes a meaningful difference.
Before the pandemic you could take a flight almost anywhere for less than $1000. Not using that opportunity ends up defining people, or at least their situation, whether they like it or not.
And don't get me wrong. I understand that it isn't always so simple. Still if I had to choose I would choose the version of myself that is willing and capable of traveling.
Could you go traveling when you are 40? Sure, but it isn't necessarily the same thing.
It doesn't really have to compound. If you travel a few weeks every other year in your 20s or 30s it adds up to a lot more experiences than if you hadn't. When you get up to 40 it makes a meaningful difference.
Before the pandemic you could take a flight almost anywhere for less than $1000. Not using that opportunity ends up defining people, or at least their situation, whether they like it or not.
And don't get me wrong. I understand that it isn't always so simple. Still if I had to choose I would choose the version of myself that is willing and capable of traveling.
Could you go traveling when you are 40? Sure, but it isn't necessarily the same thing.
If you retire when you're 40 don't you basically have to live in mortal fear of serious illness for the rest of your life?
Only in the US. You might live in a first world country.
You might also have so much saved up you can buy private insurance for the rest of your life.
You might also have so much saved up you can buy private insurance for the rest of your life.
There are a number of ways around that if you have money, such as investing in an HSA early on, or buying private insurance. Or get married.
No. You buy health insurance.
The author of “Die With Zero” makes an interesting observation: Experiences do compound in a way: the longer you have an experience, the more you can surface the memory over your life, leading to memories of memories which are themselves pleasant.
Has it ever occured to you that you are getting paid off the work off your friends and family and by giving their money back they are simply back to square one?
I don't think your sentence is particularly well formed so it's not clear what you're getting at.
The truth is, no matter what path you take in life, you can find yourself wishing that you took a different path.
I saw this posted elsewhere on HN and it really resonated with me.
“I saw my life branching out before me like the green fig tree in the story. From the tip of every branch, like a fat purple fig, a wonderful future beckoned and winked. One fig was a husband and a happy home and children, and another fig was a famous poet and another fig was a brilliant professor, and another fig was Ee Gee, the amazing editor, and another fig was Europe and Africa and South America, and another fig was Constantin and Socrates and Attila and a pack of other lovers with queer names and offbeat professions, and another fig was an Olympic lady crew champion, and beyond and above these figs were many more figs I couldn't quite make out. I saw myself sitting in the crotch of this fig tree, starving to death, just because I couldn't make up my mind which of the figs I would choose. I wanted each and every one of them, but choosing one meant losing all the rest, and, as I sat there, unable to decide, the figs began to wrinkle and go black, and, one by one, they plopped to the ground at my feet.”
Sylvia Plath
“I saw my life branching out before me like the green fig tree in the story. From the tip of every branch, like a fat purple fig, a wonderful future beckoned and winked. One fig was a husband and a happy home and children, and another fig was a famous poet and another fig was a brilliant professor, and another fig was Ee Gee, the amazing editor, and another fig was Europe and Africa and South America, and another fig was Constantin and Socrates and Attila and a pack of other lovers with queer names and offbeat professions, and another fig was an Olympic lady crew champion, and beyond and above these figs were many more figs I couldn't quite make out. I saw myself sitting in the crotch of this fig tree, starving to death, just because I couldn't make up my mind which of the figs I would choose. I wanted each and every one of them, but choosing one meant losing all the rest, and, as I sat there, unable to decide, the figs began to wrinkle and go black, and, one by one, they plopped to the ground at my feet.”
Sylvia Plath
every post here in this post is triggering an existential crisis for me. oh what to do...
It pays to understand oneself. Why do people want _every_ fig on the tree? It's because of greed, and desire.
If yo can imagine yourself be satisfied with obtaining just one of those figs, instead of only being satisfied from having it all, you'd have a much better time alive.
It's the same root philosophy as finishing one project to completion, rather than start many but never finishing it to the end.
If yo can imagine yourself be satisfied with obtaining just one of those figs, instead of only being satisfied from having it all, you'd have a much better time alive.
It's the same root philosophy as finishing one project to completion, rather than start many but never finishing it to the end.
I made the decision to take the nearby fig, because, like, it's there, it's a little green, but hey, enjoy it! And I did. And you know what? After I awhile, I decided I didn't like it after all. I spit it out. I climbed for another fig, and even though I got that one too, it turns out...I really enjoy climbing for figs, perhaps more than I enjoy figs.
This probably changes depending on who you talk to, to me idk if its about wanting every fig. I think its worrying about which fig is the best, and trying to figure out what "best" even means. and curiosity of other figs.
And how much time should you spend on trying to know your self, to pick the best fig.
And how much time should you spend on trying to know your self, to pick the best fig.
>Why do people want _every_ fig on the tree? It's because of greed, and desire
Why wouldn't people want every fig on the tree? It's because of indifference and lack of passion.
In a world where aging was solved, we could get every one of them. And it wouldn't be greed, it would be just living.
Why wouldn't people want every fig on the tree? It's because of indifference and lack of passion.
In a world where aging was solved, we could get every one of them. And it wouldn't be greed, it would be just living.
Figs are disgusting. Now I'll try and visualize desirable kinds of things as fig trees, making it easier to quickly pass them up and go for something I'd want more. Thanks.
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People want lots of different figs because they’re good, and it’s hard to choose.
Write down the things you love and find an intersection or invent that intersection. You can't enjoy them all 100% but you don't have to leave all the things you love behind.
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And I'm in a 3rd world country making 3rd world salary.
Sure I'd like to get myself into big tech (not necessarily in America). But... I don't even know where to start.
Sure I'd like to get myself into big tech (not necessarily in America). But... I don't even know where to start.
It’s pretty easy to get a PR in Canada. Once here, get a tech job. In 3 years you will have a citizenship and a easy way to get a big tech job in the US ( TN Visa).
It reminds me of http://dresdencodak.com/2009/04/19/onald-creely/ , which meant a lot to me when I was younger for no reason that I can explain.
Not choosing is also a choice. The paralysis of choice is very nicely laid out in that piece.
What a great metaphor.
I really love this quote - thanks for sharing.
I LOVE Sylvia Plath
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Not at all. If your road in life reaches a certain level of fulfillment, you stop thinking about what could have been and spend your days counting your blessings.
Many of us have an innate drive for diverse experiences and forming fond memories around them, to the point it feels like it's never enough.
Sometimes it is those who are looking for a void to fill in life, because their childhood lacked a crucial element to healthy development that they end up looking for anything that could scratch that itch; and that itch is often nostalgia waiting to be found, perhaps falsely, because that void seeks something else to satisfy it relationally.
Sometimes it is those who are looking for a void to fill in life, because their childhood lacked a crucial element to healthy development that they end up looking for anything that could scratch that itch; and that itch is often nostalgia waiting to be found, perhaps falsely, because that void seeks something else to satisfy it relationally.
Just as you can find meaning in the path you took. See how people will be happy even after missing some opportunities - https://youtu.be/4q1dgn_C0AU?t=1001 . It depends on our prefrontal cortex!
Old people on their death bed are telling us what they want to do now, couched as what they would have wanted to do. But they made the decisions they did for reasons that seemed good at the time, and it might well be that they'd make the same ones. Wishing things were different is not the same as a plan to make them different.
Or, as I've said about this before: why worry about what death-bed you wants? That person literally has no future, but you do have a future to worry about!
Or, as I've said about this before: why worry about what death-bed you wants? That person literally has no future, but you do have a future to worry about!
I probably said this before. The deathbed perspective is an exercise of taking your entire life experiences and distilling them to get a concrete core as seen from the "final checkpoint". The key is knowing that there will be no future experiences to alter the result, and that makes the determination as final and as accurate as it can ever reasonably be. It's not a decision making tool, it can't be used to alter the future. It's a conclusion, a punchline.
But if you want to see what's important now that's a decision, a seed for your future, and it's open to change and evolution. This cannot be more different from a real deathbed perspective. So taking this decision by imagining one of infinite possibilities of your future up to your distant deathbed makes no sense. Even meeting your future self wouldn't give good insights on any "road not taken". An imagined, relatively random, and distant future outcome can't help you decide what's best in the present more than flipping a coin will.
The people drawing these conclusions may have no future but they do have the entire past. When you ask for a game review you're more likely to go for one coming from someone who's finished the game rather than someone who played the tutorial. That deathbed conclusion is meant to pass on what were the best and worst parts, not what should have been done differently because finishing the game means you know the outcome of exactly one of the possible move combinations. So if most old gamers say a particular mission deserves attention it's not a guarantee it does but it's a strong indication.
But if you want to see what's important now that's a decision, a seed for your future, and it's open to change and evolution. This cannot be more different from a real deathbed perspective. So taking this decision by imagining one of infinite possibilities of your future up to your distant deathbed makes no sense. Even meeting your future self wouldn't give good insights on any "road not taken". An imagined, relatively random, and distant future outcome can't help you decide what's best in the present more than flipping a coin will.
The people drawing these conclusions may have no future but they do have the entire past. When you ask for a game review you're more likely to go for one coming from someone who's finished the game rather than someone who played the tutorial. That deathbed conclusion is meant to pass on what were the best and worst parts, not what should have been done differently because finishing the game means you know the outcome of exactly one of the possible move combinations. So if most old gamers say a particular mission deserves attention it's not a guarantee it does but it's a strong indication.
> Old people on their death bed are telling us what they want to do now…
Are they? I assumed they were telling you what has given the most fulfillment, what were their wisest decisions now that they can Monday-morning quarterback.
When I tell my kids my home has been my greatest financial asset and I wish I had bought a home earlier, I am not wishing to buy another home now.
> But they made the decisions they did for reasons that seemed good at the time…
Agree, but the point is that they have hindsight now and, had they this knowledge 50 years ago, they believe the calculus driving those decisions likely would have been different.
I wish I had asked my older relatives more about their younger days before they died and took those experiences with them to their graves. I am very much into recording our family genealogy for my children and future generations and I have lost a trove of valuable narratives because I turned to genealogy too late in my life.
I use it as another example of legitimately wishing I had made different decisions earlier in my life.
Are they? I assumed they were telling you what has given the most fulfillment, what were their wisest decisions now that they can Monday-morning quarterback.
When I tell my kids my home has been my greatest financial asset and I wish I had bought a home earlier, I am not wishing to buy another home now.
> But they made the decisions they did for reasons that seemed good at the time…
Agree, but the point is that they have hindsight now and, had they this knowledge 50 years ago, they believe the calculus driving those decisions likely would have been different.
I wish I had asked my older relatives more about their younger days before they died and took those experiences with them to their graves. I am very much into recording our family genealogy for my children and future generations and I have lost a trove of valuable narratives because I turned to genealogy too late in my life.
I use it as another example of legitimately wishing I had made different decisions earlier in my life.
> why worry about what death-bed you wants? That person literally has no future, but you do have a future to worry about!
Because death-bed you is the one that knows whether what to present-you is the future worked out satisfactorily or disappointingly.
Because death-bed you is the one that knows whether what to present-you is the future worked out satisfactorily or disappointingly.
That's funny, and a good point. Although I think the whole deathbed thing is more of a framework for figuring out what you want, now, without over-prioritizing preparing for the future
It's basically a local maxima problem. You optimise for what seems best at the time, not what will be optimal over a longer period of time.
> This seems totally opposite of what old people say on their death bed
Maybe because nobody is around to listen to, or cares about, the old people saying in their death bed "maybe I should have worked harder"
Maybe because nobody is around to listen to, or cares about, the old people saying in their death bed "maybe I should have worked harder"
> This seems totally opposite of what old people say on their death bed.
Unlike everyone else, someone on the deathbed doesn't have to think about the future.
Unlike everyone else, someone on the deathbed doesn't have to think about the future.
It is important to realize in America at least, retirement seems a bit further out of reach to younger generations. So this may be really important advice for those entering what may well be the peak of an unprecedented bull market that padded the accounts of those retiring or retired, but that may not have done anything for someone young under or unemployed.
So maximizing income seems like pretty good advice right now, especially if we have bumpy economic roads ahead.
The good news is that thanks to a shift towards remote friendliness, holding a high paying tech job (which I'm assuming is something many on HN are capable of) while in Ibiza or Bali may not be as incompatible as it was for older generations, wifi permitting.
So maximizing income seems like pretty good advice right now, especially if we have bumpy economic roads ahead.
The good news is that thanks to a shift towards remote friendliness, holding a high paying tech job (which I'm assuming is something many on HN are capable of) while in Ibiza or Bali may not be as incompatible as it was for older generations, wifi permitting.
If you are in software there is no reason you shouldn't be able to retire.
Those retirees are fully dependent on young people working for them, if they were to refuse then the retirees might notice their selfishness.
You can even hold more than one concurrently I hear!
> This seems totally opposite of what old people say on their death bed.
You should nevze give any weight to whatever strangers say on their deathbed because they actually could have done things the way they wanted but every living day actively chose not to do it. Regrets are bullshit.
You should nevze give any weight to whatever strangers say on their deathbed because they actually could have done things the way they wanted but every living day actively chose not to do it. Regrets are bullshit.
> You think your gonna wind surf when your 60?
No.
> You think it's smart to spend your 'non arthritis' fingers on coding?
Yes.
No.
> You think it's smart to spend your 'non arthritis' fingers on coding?
Yes.
Thanks for the comment. I disagree, so I’m going to rebut you: no.
It's tough... at 47 I'm old enough to have felt the decades past turn into a scant handful of memories. When you're older, the past matters less. The now matters more. Not being able to pay for good health care matters. Not being able to eat what you want or take vacations matters. When you're old, you realize "Oh yeah, life goes on, long after the thrill of living is gone" and you have the now to worry about. But I don't know, even if I can't remember all of it, some of what I did when I was younger made me who I am now. I'd say plan on working until you're at least 50 and taking some time to smell the roses, especially if you have kids.
The other thing I've realized being old: if you're going to have kids, have them young. There is absolutely nothing on this earth which is as valuable as the time you'll have with your children. I've waited until late in life to have kids, and it strikes me now that it means I might not ever get to meet my grandkids. I'll have decades less time with my kids to pass on advice and support them. I think if there's anything I'd trade my youth for, it's spending time raising kids. I'd gladly work a few hard years in my 40s and 50s for that privilege.
The other thing I've realized being old: if you're going to have kids, have them young. There is absolutely nothing on this earth which is as valuable as the time you'll have with your children. I've waited until late in life to have kids, and it strikes me now that it means I might not ever get to meet my grandkids. I'll have decades less time with my kids to pass on advice and support them. I think if there's anything I'd trade my youth for, it's spending time raising kids. I'd gladly work a few hard years in my 40s and 50s for that privilege.
But if you were in your 20s I doubt living solely for your retirement would be much fun to you either. Some balance is necessary here.
The need for balance cannot be stated enough. All things have to be done when it's their time. Spending your entire youth working yourself to the bone to retire early is just as bad as trying to spend all your old years globetrotting to make up for not doing it earlier in life.
Life is like good food: you'll want all ingredients properly mixed in at the right time (with some added randomness and creativity). Trying to eat the ingredients one by one in some order that you think will make the food better is almost guaranteed to disappoint.
Life is like good food: you'll want all ingredients properly mixed in at the right time (with some added randomness and creativity). Trying to eat the ingredients one by one in some order that you think will make the food better is almost guaranteed to disappoint.
> if you're going to have kids, have them young. There is absolutely nothing on this earth which is as valuable as the time you'll have with your children
This is entirely self-centered. The kids, instead, benefit immensely from having parents with experience, emotional maturity, financial stability, better work-life balance.
You might not get to meet your grand[grand]kids but this is a sacrifice parents should be willing to make to provide a good life to their kids.
This is entirely self-centered. The kids, instead, benefit immensely from having parents with experience, emotional maturity, financial stability, better work-life balance.
You might not get to meet your grand[grand]kids but this is a sacrifice parents should be willing to make to provide a good life to their kids.
Grandparents are a massive help with raising kids, especially so when one doesn't have brothers or sisters.
I had a friend with parents who were retiring when they were in early high school. It sounded like a rather lonely childhood borne of a fifty year age gap. When they wanted to play catch with dad- well, dad was sixty and no longer spry.
I very much agree with your sentiment about children. I'm into my 30's and feeling the ticking clock. Part of me wishes I had had children 10 years ago. Unfortunately, having children means less time and effort to put into career advancement. Getting and keeping a job as a software developer is challenging enough already without trying to keep a family together too.
What's the best time to have kids? 35?
35 is considered "advanced maternal age", where there is more risk to both the mother and baby. Given that it takes ~2 years to make a baby, ideally you should start having kids no later than 35 - 2n, where n is the number of kids you plan to have.
Does this go for both the mother and father?
Obviously not. For women, the clock is ticking ever so fast once they hit 30.
For men, it's really not, until they are 40+, and if in good health, even 50.
For men, it's really not, until they are 40+, and if in good health, even 50.
The best time is the time that's right for you.
I wish we'd stop perpetuating this myth of "the time that's right for you".
Biology unfortunately or fortunately requires women to have healthy kids until a certain age, and the more women are aware of it the better for them (that is if they plan on having any)
Biology unfortunately or fortunately requires women to have healthy kids until a certain age, and the more women are aware of it the better for them (that is if they plan on having any)
The twenties [citation needed].
That sounds terrible. You're waiting to be old to be happy? To enjoy life?
Maybe it's just how you sounded - maybe you're telling people not to sacrifice their future for their present. But no one should sacrifice their present _completely_ for their future.
Mostly because, well, you don't know if you'll have a future. "Stay healthy" won't stop you from developing cancer, heart disease, etc.
Maybe it's just how you sounded - maybe you're telling people not to sacrifice their future for their present. But no one should sacrifice their present _completely_ for their future.
Mostly because, well, you don't know if you'll have a future. "Stay healthy" won't stop you from developing cancer, heart disease, etc.
Fwiw I have luckily been able to do what the grandparent suggested. I entered big tech early in my career, worked hard and advanced, by luck or by skill who can say? My ship rose with the tide. Now I'm wealthy enough to provide anything my family could reasonably want for the rest of our lives, barring some kind of black swan event. And I am well pleased with this outcome.
This did not require a decade and a half of unhappiness! Did it require me to sometimes put aside my immediate wants for the sake of the future? Yes. Did it require some measure of frugality? Also yes. But I also had great times with friends. I got married and had kids. We took vacations, spent time with family, engaged in hobbies, etc.
There are some things I couldn't do while I was working hard. A gap year was out of the question. But those things are not necessary for happiness.
This did not require a decade and a half of unhappiness! Did it require me to sometimes put aside my immediate wants for the sake of the future? Yes. Did it require some measure of frugality? Also yes. But I also had great times with friends. I got married and had kids. We took vacations, spent time with family, engaged in hobbies, etc.
There are some things I couldn't do while I was working hard. A gap year was out of the question. But those things are not necessary for happiness.
> I entered big tech early in my career, worked hard and advanced, by luck or by skill who can say?
You can. If you earned a significant amount of your savings because of stock or an exit event then it was, likely, biased in some way. It is truly great for you to have had everything come together as described.
> Now I'm wealthy enough to provide anything my family could reasonably want for the rest of our lives, barring some kind of black swan event.
This is not the usual outcome. Plenty of people have burned out going for it. Sometimes multiple times. And some have struck it big with little to no effort, right place right time as it's said. There is no right answer to this topic that anyone else can prescribe. It's up to you and if you don't own the path and the outcome you will feel a level of "waste" if and when your life doesn't yield the expectations you've set.
You can. If you earned a significant amount of your savings because of stock or an exit event then it was, likely, biased in some way. It is truly great for you to have had everything come together as described.
> Now I'm wealthy enough to provide anything my family could reasonably want for the rest of our lives, barring some kind of black swan event.
This is not the usual outcome. Plenty of people have burned out going for it. Sometimes multiple times. And some have struck it big with little to no effort, right place right time as it's said. There is no right answer to this topic that anyone else can prescribe. It's up to you and if you don't own the path and the outcome you will feel a level of "waste" if and when your life doesn't yield the expectations you've set.
I bet a gap year was not out of the question. Or at least a gap 3-6 months between switching jobs is easily doable.
Perhaps they are not necessary for happiness but I bet if you had took that 3-12 months to do whatever it is you wanted to do it'd be the time you look back at most fondly.
Compound interest is great but salary tends to compound as well. At least in the tech sector. I've gone from 60k to 200k in about 8 years. So even though I'm missing that nest egg saving today is way easier than it was in my 20s.
Perhaps they are not necessary for happiness but I bet if you had took that 3-12 months to do whatever it is you wanted to do it'd be the time you look back at most fondly.
Compound interest is great but salary tends to compound as well. At least in the tech sector. I've gone from 60k to 200k in about 8 years. So even though I'm missing that nest egg saving today is way easier than it was in my 20s.
Yeah, but sometimes… Life hits hard and you‘ll miss out on these days.
When I turned 22 in 2008, my mom surprised me with her having sarcoidosis, a disease which will turn functional cells into non-functional ones. Quite an issue when it starts in your lungs. A year later, my father surprised me with him having cancer.
Long story short, they passed away in 2013 and 2017. I should also mention that I have four younger siblings. I raised my little sister until the beginning of 2020, when she turned 18. And then, the pandemic hit.
Now, I‘m ready for everything I missed in my mid-twenties. Party like there is no tomorrow, make stupid mistakes and f*ck around (literally and metaphorically).
Yet that means I‘ll be unable to live a „normal“ life by our societie's standards, because I already should have wife and kids by the age of 35…
When I turned 22 in 2008, my mom surprised me with her having sarcoidosis, a disease which will turn functional cells into non-functional ones. Quite an issue when it starts in your lungs. A year later, my father surprised me with him having cancer.
Long story short, they passed away in 2013 and 2017. I should also mention that I have four younger siblings. I raised my little sister until the beginning of 2020, when she turned 18. And then, the pandemic hit.
Now, I‘m ready for everything I missed in my mid-twenties. Party like there is no tomorrow, make stupid mistakes and f*ck around (literally and metaphorically).
Yet that means I‘ll be unable to live a „normal“ life by our societie's standards, because I already should have wife and kids by the age of 35…
I'm 36,
my 11 year old son's mom passed away from cancer last year, and 2 days later cancer was found in my fiancee. She passed away 3 months ago.
I now share custody of my son with his stepdad... There's not much "normal" about it, but it's the best thing I/we can do for him given the circumstances. Family is what you make it.
I would focus on enjoying life and doing what you feel is best with no regard for what seems normal.
I now share custody of my son with his stepdad... There's not much "normal" about it, but it's the best thing I/we can do for him given the circumstances. Family is what you make it.
I would focus on enjoying life and doing what you feel is best with no regard for what seems normal.
Why did you raise your younger sister until she was 18? Did she go off to university?
You can also party and fuck around in your 30s. It's different than 20s of course, but still great!
Also, I'd try to refrain from comparing yourself go the "normal" life. You've clearly had a unique journey (beyond "normal" might be in TV shows), and I am certain you've learnt a lot through it.
You're clearly a legend for looking after your family in the way that you did. I am sure your brother's and sisters will appreciate it in the future if they've not made it clear already.
You can also party and fuck around in your 30s. It's different than 20s of course, but still great!
Also, I'd try to refrain from comparing yourself go the "normal" life. You've clearly had a unique journey (beyond "normal" might be in TV shows), and I am certain you've learnt a lot through it.
You're clearly a legend for looking after your family in the way that you did. I am sure your brother's and sisters will appreciate it in the future if they've not made it clear already.
Well, in Germany you are no longer a minor after passing 18. Before that, you need to have someone to look after you. Usually, that's your parent's job, but if they are gone, it can be grandparents, aunts & uncles, your older siblings or a complete stranger. So I applied for that role, as that was the last promise I gave to my mum - that I would look after my little sister. Well, my sister had a boyfriend at that time she turned 18, so they wanted to move together. And legally speaking, my guardianship ended on that day she turned 18.
And thank you for your kind words. <3
And thank you for your kind words. <3
I’m one of those fools who took a few years off before college, after college, and decided to up and move to a faraway country while I was young.
It’s very likely I’d have more money if I went straight to work while I was younger instead of goofing off. I could probably have paychecks twice as big as I do now.
But you know what? My worst days in the place I live now are better than my best days in my home country. My money goes farther here. I feel like the things I do actually matter now. I had time to develop personal skills and I feel like a better person for it.
Want to pursue money and prioritize your last 5 years of life (and ignore the very real possibility you’ll die or become disabled before then)? That’s fine. But you’re not going to be a failure if you forgo that unless you’re defining success as purely moving up a massive corporate ladder.
It’s very likely I’d have more money if I went straight to work while I was younger instead of goofing off. I could probably have paychecks twice as big as I do now.
But you know what? My worst days in the place I live now are better than my best days in my home country. My money goes farther here. I feel like the things I do actually matter now. I had time to develop personal skills and I feel like a better person for it.
Want to pursue money and prioritize your last 5 years of life (and ignore the very real possibility you’ll die or become disabled before then)? That’s fine. But you’re not going to be a failure if you forgo that unless you’re defining success as purely moving up a massive corporate ladder.
How did you find the right country?
Where did you move to?
I was curious as well and it seems they are located in Japan, judging from another comment.
Go windsurfing for a year in Ibiza after college, and you're adding 5 years to your working life--retiring at 62 instead of 57.
You may have a grand plan to retire at 57, but what if you love the work you're doing then? What if you die at 56? What if your employer is ageist and fires you at 50? What if the economy collapses in 30 years time and wipes out your pension fund? What if your knees give out at 57 and you're confined to your house for your entire retirement?
You're not giving up a year of fun aged 20 for 5 years of fun at 57 - you're trading a year of fun now for the potential of 5 years more fun in the future. Maybe that's a great tradeoff, but if definitely isn't a simple tradeoff. There are deep rabbit holes of probability to explore deciding whether it's worth the risk.
You may have a grand plan to retire at 57, but what if you love the work you're doing then? What if you die at 56? What if your employer is ageist and fires you at 50? What if the economy collapses in 30 years time and wipes out your pension fund? What if your knees give out at 57 and you're confined to your house for your entire retirement?
You're not giving up a year of fun aged 20 for 5 years of fun at 57 - you're trading a year of fun now for the potential of 5 years more fun in the future. Maybe that's a great tradeoff, but if definitely isn't a simple tradeoff. There are deep rabbit holes of probability to explore deciding whether it's worth the risk.
What if you'd die wind surfing? What if you would have cured cancer if you'd only worked that one extra day? What if you would have met the love of your life on the train to work?
Asking a bunch of hypotheticals isn't a great way to make your point. Yes, as time goes on the chance of "bad things happens" increases. But we can also make a lot of assumptions. I don't plan to die at 57, I don't plan on being expendable at 50, I don't plan for economic collapse. They're all possible outcomes, but they're also not what I consider likely at all, or things I can reasonably prepare for.
Asking a bunch of hypotheticals isn't a great way to make your point. Yes, as time goes on the chance of "bad things happens" increases. But we can also make a lot of assumptions. I don't plan to die at 57, I don't plan on being expendable at 50, I don't plan for economic collapse. They're all possible outcomes, but they're also not what I consider likely at all, or things I can reasonably prepare for.
Asking a bunch of hypotheticals isn't a great way to make your point.
The hypotheticals are the point. When you're thinking about how to live your life, to windsurf or to build your savings for example, you're considering hypotheticals because you have to make a choice about which one to do. All the others are hypotheticals because you end up not doing them. Planning is all about hypotheticals.
The hypotheticals are the point. When you're thinking about how to live your life, to windsurf or to build your savings for example, you're considering hypotheticals because you have to make a choice about which one to do. All the others are hypotheticals because you end up not doing them. Planning is all about hypotheticals.
I guess my point is that your hypotheticals are very leading and lack important context like probability. People generally don't plan to die at 57 because most people don't die at 57 (or 40). Planning your life like that isn't really sensible.
Based on my observations (so anecdotal probably), it seems that being happy doesn't depends on what you did in the past or what you intend your future to be, but what you're doing now.
Looking bad at your younger self won't make you happy. Looking with envy at your older self won't make you happy.
Regarding your comment, I've never found someone saying "I wish I did things differently" and being happy. The sheer fact that they spend time regretting their past shows that their present self is not fulfilled.
Looking bad at your younger self won't make you happy. Looking with envy at your older self won't make you happy.
Regarding your comment, I've never found someone saying "I wish I did things differently" and being happy. The sheer fact that they spend time regretting their past shows that their present self is not fulfilled.
I agree. There's also a difference between happiness, fulfillment, and "a good life" for many people.
I can be happy playing video games and relaxing, but maybe not fulfilled. I can work hard on interesting problems and feel fulfilled, but if that's all there is in my life I wouldn't say I lived well.
Confronted with death we look to our past for comfort. We're about to experience a total loss of everything and so, naturally, we search for meaning - "it can't have all been for nothing".
That's why the "death bed" thought experiment is interesting but also probably not the right way to frame things. It forces you to question life's intrinsic meaning and value but you should also think about how you feel right now, regardless of death or meaning or value.
I can be happy playing video games and relaxing, but maybe not fulfilled. I can work hard on interesting problems and feel fulfilled, but if that's all there is in my life I wouldn't say I lived well.
Confronted with death we look to our past for comfort. We're about to experience a total loss of everything and so, naturally, we search for meaning - "it can't have all been for nothing".
That's why the "death bed" thought experiment is interesting but also probably not the right way to frame things. It forces you to question life's intrinsic meaning and value but you should also think about how you feel right now, regardless of death or meaning or value.
Here’s an interesting thought experiment for you - if you could trade 20 years of your life for 10 billion dollars, would you? Just step in a room and walk out a billionaire.
I have yet to meet someone that would accept the offer. So if you do the math, they value their time at a shockingly high rate. I’d argue, trading the best years of your life for an early retirement is the same proposal.
Steve Jobs would have given his fortune many times over to have a couple extra years. Why trade the best years of your life for an uncertain future?
I have yet to meet someone that would accept the offer. So if you do the math, they value their time at a shockingly high rate. I’d argue, trading the best years of your life for an early retirement is the same proposal.
Steve Jobs would have given his fortune many times over to have a couple extra years. Why trade the best years of your life for an uncertain future?
I think it's worth playing this out a bit, because I'd claim there's an exponential curve here.
Offer someone 500m (hell, even 1m for many) for one year, and I doubt you'd find many who would say no. There's a margin at which you would be losing so much life experience that you wonder what you even live for (20y), while shorter periods (1, 2, 5, even 10y) aren't so defined.
Also, I read this as you lose 20y from the point of the deal (eg. 20yold coming back as a 40yold) rather than taking years off the end of your life, which I suspect is a more palatable interpretation for most.
Offer someone 500m (hell, even 1m for many) for one year, and I doubt you'd find many who would say no. There's a margin at which you would be losing so much life experience that you wonder what you even live for (20y), while shorter periods (1, 2, 5, even 10y) aren't so defined.
Also, I read this as you lose 20y from the point of the deal (eg. 20yold coming back as a 40yold) rather than taking years off the end of your life, which I suspect is a more palatable interpretation for most.
When I have that 10 billion, I might want to extend my life just to enjoy it more, like all the rich people do. But right now? I don’t even need to think twice to accept that offer lol. My time isn’t that precious when 50% of it is spent working for food and shelter, and trying to stay fit so that I don’t stop being capable of working.
I'm curious if you have kids?
This proposal could be thought of a couple ways. Maybe I prematurely age 20 years? That sounds pretty bad. I'm currently 42. That would make me effectively 62. With twin 3 year olds and a 6 year old. That doesn't sound fun.
But what sounds even worse is they won't graduate from high school until I'm 77. Decent odds I would die before then. Even with 10 billion. Fuck that.
The other interpretation could be: the world moves on but you "fast forward". Well, I likely get to see my kids as adults, but it all zipped before my eyes.
And that sucks too. Things moves so fast at younger ages, and so far from 0-6 each age is unique, different experience. And I would never want to fast forward over that.
Maybe if I were still hanging out, playing games, and talking with friends - sure. What's 20 years - maybe I'm a little worse at games. But kids change the whole thing for me.
This proposal could be thought of a couple ways. Maybe I prematurely age 20 years? That sounds pretty bad. I'm currently 42. That would make me effectively 62. With twin 3 year olds and a 6 year old. That doesn't sound fun.
But what sounds even worse is they won't graduate from high school until I'm 77. Decent odds I would die before then. Even with 10 billion. Fuck that.
The other interpretation could be: the world moves on but you "fast forward". Well, I likely get to see my kids as adults, but it all zipped before my eyes.
And that sucks too. Things moves so fast at younger ages, and so far from 0-6 each age is unique, different experience. And I would never want to fast forward over that.
Maybe if I were still hanging out, playing games, and talking with friends - sure. What's 20 years - maybe I'm a little worse at games. But kids change the whole thing for me.
No I don't have kids, which is why I'm able to imagine making that choice. I agree different people will have different choices, just that the parent might need to ask a different demographic.
Even with kids, parents that aren't well off often sacrifice their wellbeing for their family. For example, people that work two jobs for a total of 16-18 hours a day aren't rare where I live. They are aware this affects their health, shortens their life span and their time with kids, but they make the choice so that their family could survive.
Even with kids, parents that aren't well off often sacrifice their wellbeing for their family. For example, people that work two jobs for a total of 16-18 hours a day aren't rare where I live. They are aware this affects their health, shortens their life span and their time with kids, but they make the choice so that their family could survive.
That was my thought too. Childhood feels so bad to many kids yhat the would happily jump 20 years ahead especially if that meant turning into billionaires. Some of them hope they'll achieve exactly that with effort and luck, and you'd be giving it to them for free.
I think you're severely underestimating what 20 years mean for your body. I'm a very fit 37 year old, and I very much notice the continued wear and tear. Recovery takes a lot longer, and the body just isn't as limber as it used to be. Partying for days on end, or some extreme sports, and maybe even some intellectual persuits are just WAAAAAY harder then they were 20 or 15 years ago. I can still do them all, but someone who thinks it's a good idea to trade in their 20s for more free time in their 40s is in for a rough surprise.
Have you considered TRT?
What's TRT?
Testosterone Replacement Therapy
I'm not considering that at all, no. From talks with all my peers, it's pretty obvious to me that this is the very normal aging process, and TRT has too many known side effects (and unknown 2nd order side effects) to be worth it
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If I could use the money to reform all economies to have a land value tax and implement a -5% interest rate on cash then surely the importance of the bottom 95% of humanity's billions of years in aggregate would massively outweigh 20 of mine. Not to mention that I myself would benefit from peace and stability which could be worth 20 years if I were to die in a conflict that cuts my life short, not to mention all the technological progress that would be accelerated and thereby improve the healthcare system.
A lot of people already sacrifice 20 years of their life to bring benefits to the world.
> -5% interest rate on cash
You mean a property tax specifically on cash? Why?
> -5% interest rate on cash
You mean a property tax specifically on cash? Why?
It would be more interesting to ask how many people would trade one month for 40 million. Or six months for 250 million. It’s the same exchange rate, but I think you’d get many more takers.
I think the real problem is you’ve never met anyone who has any idea what to do with 10 billion dollars.
I think the real problem is you’ve never met anyone who has any idea what to do with 10 billion dollars.
> if you could trade 20 years of your life for 10 billion dollars, would you? Just step in a room and walk out a billionaire.
i think it depends on which 20 years are taken - the old ones, where you're unable to anything anyway, or the young ones, which you'd need to enjoy that 10 billion?
i think it depends on which 20 years are taken - the old ones, where you're unable to anything anyway, or the young ones, which you'd need to enjoy that 10 billion?
Obviously the 20 years from the moment of asking so their best, healthiest years of all they have.
I would do that, go from 100 to 80 years is fine by me.
If I knew how much time I have with those 10b, yes for sure.
I would stop working today, would create my dream farm etc travel the world etc.
I would stop working today, would create my dream farm etc travel the world etc.
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> Go windsurfing for a year in Ibiza after college, and you're adding 5 years to your working life
There's only one decade that you're going to be in your 20s dating other 20 year olds and going around with friends who are mostly unmarried.
As with anything there is a balance. Working too much or too little can cause problems.
There's only one decade that you're going to be in your 20s dating other 20 year olds and going around with friends who are mostly unmarried.
As with anything there is a balance. Working too much or too little can cause problems.
> Life isn't short--it's LONG
This was true until I was diagnosed with terminal cancer.
It's possible to over prepare and not see the fruits of your labour.
This was true until I was diagnosed with terminal cancer.
It's possible to over prepare and not see the fruits of your labour.
Ohhh. I'm sorry to hear that. I'd like to wish you a painless remission, and at the very least, a peaceful life.
Life is long for most, but statistically there's about a 5% chance you'll die before 50, it's better to hedge your bets imo. Also, wind surfing in Ibiza doesn't sound that fun at 60.
I worked as a software dev for a large company for 3 years and it was a complete waste in retrospect. I now make much more money and curse every second I spent in that cubicle. The corporate ladder is a low-risk low-reward path that's generally unfulfilling. For a young person it's much better strategy to explore rather than exploit early on.
I've seen more than one person die with an unspent fortune, having worked at a menial job their entire life. Don't let it happen to you.
I worked as a software dev for a large company for 3 years and it was a complete waste in retrospect. I now make much more money and curse every second I spent in that cubicle. The corporate ladder is a low-risk low-reward path that's generally unfulfilling. For a young person it's much better strategy to explore rather than exploit early on.
I've seen more than one person die with an unspent fortune, having worked at a menial job their entire life. Don't let it happen to you.
I feel like the big tech corp life has a lot to offer but I had to grind it out for 7 years at small and mid-size companies first. I sense people who go straight into it from school don't appreciate it as much.
What lucrative opportunity did you transition too? It seems as if outside of startup luck there isn’t much room for high salaries
If your goal is maximizing money then you are somewhat correct. But that's not a good goal to have.
And even if it was ... Work is overrated. As a way to make money and altogether.
If you are in a place where they are giving you unfairly large amount of money for doing something ... sure, stay there for a while. Otherwise move. Don't think you'll be retiring at 57 or 62. Life is not that easy to predict. If you stay in the wrong place you'll never retire. And if you move to the right place in your life you might retire before you are 40.
> Due to compounding interest, a dollar made in your 20's is far, far more valuable than a dollar made in your 60's.
For me that doesn't sound solid as well. Inflation compounds too and black swan events of your life show up occasionally. In your 20's you earn so little that you can't save much, and just 10 lazy years into your career you'd be earning so much that you'd be saving many times more than you were earning in your 20s. If you don't burn stacks of cash to warm your soul, as you accumulate more knowledge and expeirience, money just starts accumulating on their own once you reach a certain age if you remained mobile and just went where their are paing best.
And even if it was ... Work is overrated. As a way to make money and altogether.
If you are in a place where they are giving you unfairly large amount of money for doing something ... sure, stay there for a while. Otherwise move. Don't think you'll be retiring at 57 or 62. Life is not that easy to predict. If you stay in the wrong place you'll never retire. And if you move to the right place in your life you might retire before you are 40.
> Due to compounding interest, a dollar made in your 20's is far, far more valuable than a dollar made in your 60's.
For me that doesn't sound solid as well. Inflation compounds too and black swan events of your life show up occasionally. In your 20's you earn so little that you can't save much, and just 10 lazy years into your career you'd be earning so much that you'd be saving many times more than you were earning in your 20s. If you don't burn stacks of cash to warm your soul, as you accumulate more knowledge and expeirience, money just starts accumulating on their own once you reach a certain age if you remained mobile and just went where their are paing best.
yes let's spend our 20s and 30s hoarding money and never doing anything fun, then when we're older and tied down with spouses and kids and aging parents we have a gigantic pile of money we can use to go on slightly "better" vacations one week a year
I don't think there's a single dying person on the planet that wishes they experienced life less in favour of making stacks.
I don't think there's a single dying person on the planet that wishes they experienced life less in favour of making stacks.
yeah i feel this way already, at 31, starting to really feel options closing, and realizing how insignificant a lot of decisions were in the end I wish I did more with my 20s some how (not like i had a lot of money to do much with anyway)
When you’re young, you have time and energy, but you have no money.
Then, you have money and energy, but no time to enjoy these.
Finally, you retire, and have money and time, but the energy is gone.
Such is life.
Then, you have money and energy, but no time to enjoy these.
Finally, you retire, and have money and time, but the energy is gone.
Such is life.
What options do you feel are closing?
I think the window of opportunity to keep traveling and exploring is closing fast, life's milestones are pretty much happening soon, buying a home, getting married and starting a family. I don't think Ill ever get a chance to live in another country besides the US, even for a short period of time. I probably should settle down at some point instead of constantly leaving friendships behind.
At this point its pretty clear I'll never advance as far as I would like in my physical hobbies without sacrificing a lot in my other aspects of life.
Food and cooking is something I can't really explore beyond a interest and just being an eater. I think this ties back to travel too.
There are a lot of things that are really tied up in academia. I got pretty interested in philosophy of mind last year but my enthusiasm died pretty quickly when I realized there is really no where for me to take this hobby other then satisfying my own curiosity. Somewhat similar in programming, more paths seem unobtainable. I don't think I'll ever do something like work on operating systems, anything that intersects with electronics or cutting edge. I don't have the education or even a way to test the waters. This ties back to before with life's milestones, I don't know if i feel comfortable about a risky career switch when Im making tons doing what I am already.
thats off the top of my head
At this point its pretty clear I'll never advance as far as I would like in my physical hobbies without sacrificing a lot in my other aspects of life.
Food and cooking is something I can't really explore beyond a interest and just being an eater. I think this ties back to travel too.
There are a lot of things that are really tied up in academia. I got pretty interested in philosophy of mind last year but my enthusiasm died pretty quickly when I realized there is really no where for me to take this hobby other then satisfying my own curiosity. Somewhat similar in programming, more paths seem unobtainable. I don't think I'll ever do something like work on operating systems, anything that intersects with electronics or cutting edge. I don't have the education or even a way to test the waters. This ties back to before with life's milestones, I don't know if i feel comfortable about a risky career switch when Im making tons doing what I am already.
thats off the top of my head
Please don't sell yourself short. Yes, your window of opportunity is closing at 31. But don't miss the forest for the trees: you still have a huge window.
I always had an interest in traveling and was able to do some travel in my 20s and 30s, but nowhere near the amount that I had dreamed of. A trip at age 38 made me realize just how important seeing the world was to me and I left the US the same year. I have been living abroad ever since.
I've met expats who have been living abroad since their 20s and 30s, and others who didn't leave until their 40s, 50s and 60s. And I know plenty of people who have spent even 1-3 years abroad and are now back home and they are different people (in a good way I think) because of those years.
31 is a perfect age to do many things, including live abroad. If you're "making tons", you have more options to do this than many people. The only thing stopping you is yourself. If you want to do something, "just do it". There will never be a perfect moment, and you'll never be 100% comfortable before you take the plunge.
I always had an interest in traveling and was able to do some travel in my 20s and 30s, but nowhere near the amount that I had dreamed of. A trip at age 38 made me realize just how important seeing the world was to me and I left the US the same year. I have been living abroad ever since.
I've met expats who have been living abroad since their 20s and 30s, and others who didn't leave until their 40s, 50s and 60s. And I know plenty of people who have spent even 1-3 years abroad and are now back home and they are different people (in a good way I think) because of those years.
31 is a perfect age to do many things, including live abroad. If you're "making tons", you have more options to do this than many people. The only thing stopping you is yourself. If you want to do something, "just do it". There will never be a perfect moment, and you'll never be 100% comfortable before you take the plunge.
Thanks! Yeah there's still some chance I guess but it seems to be harder to figure out how to every day. At the same time Idk how I feel about continuing to keep pushing back the other things in my life (especially with a biological clock ticking). Not sure which sacrifices are the right ones to make.
I'd suggest there are no right or wrong sacrifices when it comes to these kinds of matters. You have to decide what you want most and go for that, and find a way to not dwell on the path you didn't take.
In terms of a biological clock, nothing prevents you from meeting someone, falling in love, and starting a family if you live overseas. Lots of expats meet partners and in many places, you'll find that a lot of expats with residency are married to locals.
In terms of a biological clock, nothing prevents you from meeting someone, falling in love, and starting a family if you live overseas. Lots of expats meet partners and in many places, you'll find that a lot of expats with residency are married to locals.
You can’t explore food and cooking? What are you talking about? You have to eat. So If you want to cook, then cook! One year is more than a thousand meals to develop your skill. It’s a fantastic interest to piece into a life of other things.
Heh yeah it sounds nonsensical like that. Ill explain! I mean going beyond average home cooking. Exploring cuisines and history of other cultures. Think more like tied to traveling. Like during the covid lock downs I spent a lot of time learning thai and sichuan cuisines as much as I could. I don't think without actually visiting those places, and spending time there to be immersed, talking to chefs I can never say I really know those cuisines. I cant even reliably get the ingredients in the US.
Also I cant really go train with top chefs in the world and get feedback and learn. Home cooking is a hard thing to share besides glamouring up things for like instagram. I can cook pretty well, probably put together a better meal then most local restaurants, but there's still a large gap between what I can cook and some of the places Ive eaten at just in technique and espcially creativity. I don't think I can close that gap.
Also I cant really go train with top chefs in the world and get feedback and learn. Home cooking is a hard thing to share besides glamouring up things for like instagram. I can cook pretty well, probably put together a better meal then most local restaurants, but there's still a large gap between what I can cook and some of the places Ive eaten at just in technique and espcially creativity. I don't think I can close that gap.
I cant really go train with top chefs in the world and get feedback and learn.
Sabbatical + paid course
Home cooking is a hard thing to share
Invite friends over for dinner!
I don't think I can close that gap.
Those are people who dedicate their whole life to cooking & built a whole business, they are literally the pros. Don’t get down on yourself.
P.S. Thai basil grows great in hydroponics
Sabbatical + paid course
Home cooking is a hard thing to share
Invite friends over for dinner!
I don't think I can close that gap.
Those are people who dedicate their whole life to cooking & built a whole business, they are literally the pros. Don’t get down on yourself.
P.S. Thai basil grows great in hydroponics
Yeah but there are trade offs to these, taking a sabbatical might mean pushing off owning a home or starting a family, or moving out of this apartment that I dont like living in. Or not travelling as much as i would like or advancing in other hobbies.
> they are literally the pros.
But the chances for me to pursue something like that is disappearing.
I need to be more selective about what is important, those other doors and paths in life are closing.
> they are literally the pros.
But the chances for me to pursue something like that is disappearing.
I need to be more selective about what is important, those other doors and paths in life are closing.
> Take that vacation to Bali when you're young, and you are wasting your prime, strongest days that could be making you financially secure and/or independent.
Are you not taking paid vacation?
Paid vacation doesn't impact your wages.
Are you not taking paid vacation?
Paid vacation doesn't impact your wages.
Well paying for flight, hotels, eating out, etc will cost several thousand more than just staying at home playing video games.
> compounding interest
You are lucky if you can take advantage of compounding interest. A dollar you spend on food in your 20s is just as valuable as a dollar you spend on food in your 60s.
Also, interest rates are lower than inflation in many cases.
I have a good job and a bit of money invested (about a new cars worth maybe) but there is no chance that I can become "wealthy" or retire early just by saving.
You are lucky if you can take advantage of compounding interest. A dollar you spend on food in your 20s is just as valuable as a dollar you spend on food in your 60s.
Also, interest rates are lower than inflation in many cases.
I have a good job and a bit of money invested (about a new cars worth maybe) but there is no chance that I can become "wealthy" or retire early just by saving.
By compounding interest they don't mean bank interest rates, they mean that the US economy averages about 7% real gains every year when taking historical data back from the 1800s to now. Check out some financial independence calculators [0], you are pretty likely to retire early as long as you invest your money into the US stock market.
[0] https://engaging-data.com/fire-calculator
[0] https://engaging-data.com/fire-calculator
"Life isn't short--it's LONG, and you have a brief moment in that life to maximize your preparation for the rest of it. Use it wisely."
Anyone can die any time if they're unlucky enough. Leaving much of the fun until you're old may thus be a very bad strategy.
I agree one should focus on productive activities already in their 20's, but meaningful leisure is important too. It's meaningless leisure that you do only out of boredom that people should restrict more - for me that would be social media, news and gaming.
Anyone can die any time if they're unlucky enough. Leaving much of the fun until you're old may thus be a very bad strategy.
I agree one should focus on productive activities already in their 20's, but meaningful leisure is important too. It's meaningless leisure that you do only out of boredom that people should restrict more - for me that would be social media, news and gaming.
> Life isn't short--it's LONG, and you have a brief moment in that life to maximize your preparation for the rest of it.
The reality of life is that you don't know how long it will last, or for how long you'll have the physical, mental and/or emotional health to enjoy it.
You could make hay while the sun shines, only to get hit by a typhoon (literal or figurative) and find that no amount of money will restore your ability to enjoy life to its fullest. Wealth can't always buy health, and when your number is called for good, there's no amount of money you can pay the Grim Reaper to spare you.
My mom used to work with a man who was big on the "make hay while the sun shines" approach to life. He had his Hawaiian retirement planned out to the last detail and even though he was able to retire early, ran the numbers and delayed retiring by a few years so that he could further maximize his pension.
He did make it to Hawaii, but died less than a year into his retirement.
> Every morsel you make and save early means your retirement comes earlier. There will never be a more efficient time to earn those days of leisure that will come later if you stay healthy.
But what is "retirement"?
The biggest flaw I've personally witnessed with this line of thinking is that when you're young, your concept of "leisure" and what you'd do with "leisure time" is different than what "leisure" and "leisure time" is realistically going to look like as you age. Put simply, a day of leisure isn't the same at 25 versus 55. Heck, it's not even likely to be the same at 25 versus 40 for the average person.
While this doesn't mean that older people aren't able to enjoy life, even the healthiest people 50+ on average have various issues that people in their 20s and 30s typically don't have. These issues can make it more difficult and/or less pleasurable to engage in various activities, especially those that are highly physical or require peak mental acuity and stamina.
As an example, I'm an avid traveler. Elderly travel doesn't look anywhere near as pleasurable as young and middle-aged travel. And I've been to plenty of places where older people are highly limited in their ability to enjoy activities (i.e. you're far less likely to be able to trek 15km in steep, jungle terrain to catch a glimpse of a rare species when you're 65 than when you're 35).
The reality of life is that you don't know how long it will last, or for how long you'll have the physical, mental and/or emotional health to enjoy it.
You could make hay while the sun shines, only to get hit by a typhoon (literal or figurative) and find that no amount of money will restore your ability to enjoy life to its fullest. Wealth can't always buy health, and when your number is called for good, there's no amount of money you can pay the Grim Reaper to spare you.
My mom used to work with a man who was big on the "make hay while the sun shines" approach to life. He had his Hawaiian retirement planned out to the last detail and even though he was able to retire early, ran the numbers and delayed retiring by a few years so that he could further maximize his pension.
He did make it to Hawaii, but died less than a year into his retirement.
> Every morsel you make and save early means your retirement comes earlier. There will never be a more efficient time to earn those days of leisure that will come later if you stay healthy.
But what is "retirement"?
The biggest flaw I've personally witnessed with this line of thinking is that when you're young, your concept of "leisure" and what you'd do with "leisure time" is different than what "leisure" and "leisure time" is realistically going to look like as you age. Put simply, a day of leisure isn't the same at 25 versus 55. Heck, it's not even likely to be the same at 25 versus 40 for the average person.
While this doesn't mean that older people aren't able to enjoy life, even the healthiest people 50+ on average have various issues that people in their 20s and 30s typically don't have. These issues can make it more difficult and/or less pleasurable to engage in various activities, especially those that are highly physical or require peak mental acuity and stamina.
As an example, I'm an avid traveler. Elderly travel doesn't look anywhere near as pleasurable as young and middle-aged travel. And I've been to plenty of places where older people are highly limited in their ability to enjoy activities (i.e. you're far less likely to be able to trek 15km in steep, jungle terrain to catch a glimpse of a rare species when you're 65 than when you're 35).
Life is short. As soon as you have kids you're teleported forwards twenty five years.
Kids are a whole different amazing experience though.
I’m glad I got wasted and partied in my youth. I’m glad I travelled and saw different countries. I’m glad I dated a bunch and fell in love with several women. I’m glad I held a few jobs through most of that and have the career I do now. I’m glad I’m with my amazing wife and our two young kids bring joy and light into every day. I’m glad I sunk a bunch of time/money (once) into buying and fixing up a place.
A lot of these responses seem to imply it’s either/or. That’s not the case at all, and indeed I’d say doing any ONE thing for your life, even if it’s laying in a hammock on a tropical beach, gets boring after a while.
Mix it up. Variety is the spice of life. Savor the world in this one life you have. I’d say the one rule is not to F-up so badly you can’t recover from it.
I’m glad I got wasted and partied in my youth. I’m glad I travelled and saw different countries. I’m glad I dated a bunch and fell in love with several women. I’m glad I held a few jobs through most of that and have the career I do now. I’m glad I’m with my amazing wife and our two young kids bring joy and light into every day. I’m glad I sunk a bunch of time/money (once) into buying and fixing up a place.
A lot of these responses seem to imply it’s either/or. That’s not the case at all, and indeed I’d say doing any ONE thing for your life, even if it’s laying in a hammock on a tropical beach, gets boring after a while.
Mix it up. Variety is the spice of life. Savor the world in this one life you have. I’d say the one rule is not to F-up so badly you can’t recover from it.
I’m certainly happy I got wasted in my youth. Doing it now is a horror that takes multiple days to recover from, and then we’re talking about having 4 beers…
Ultimately not everything in life went as I would have wanted, but if I compare my situation with others I think I can be well satisfied.
I don’t particularly mind the idea of working until 65 either, I’m going to be doing something anyway. As long as it’s interesting and I get rewarded enough to be happy, that’s fine with me.
Ultimately not everything in life went as I would have wanted, but if I compare my situation with others I think I can be well satisfied.
I don’t particularly mind the idea of working until 65 either, I’m going to be doing something anyway. As long as it’s interesting and I get rewarded enough to be happy, that’s fine with me.
That's if you have kids. Many people are choosing not to these days so they get to have the extra money and the time.
Unless you are one of many that are avoiding having children because you already have neither have money nor time.
Maximize your preparation as much as you want. Let's just hope you don't get diagnosed with cancer with 60. At that age more and more friends are dying and you wonder whether you shouldn't have gone more often to the beach or have travelled to Bali when you were young enough to fully enjoy the experience.
There is some truth to what you say, but memories of my aimless twenties literally sustain me now.
Life isn't long.
Get depression and puff 10 years are gone and you life expectancy likely decreases too due to unhealthy living for 10 years.
Get a child and for the next few years there is only a child in your life, and after it is still a majority factor (if you are/have the chance to be a responsible parent).
Also don't count on you life post 70, it might be grate. But it's not unlikely to be but so grate even if you have money.
Lastly if you are working to hard and are too much used to working hard all the time you might not be able to enjoy it, either because you have to learn again how to enjoy life it because of health issues due to so the stress you put on your body.
Get depression and puff 10 years are gone and you life expectancy likely decreases too due to unhealthy living for 10 years.
Get a child and for the next few years there is only a child in your life, and after it is still a majority factor (if you are/have the chance to be a responsible parent).
Also don't count on you life post 70, it might be grate. But it's not unlikely to be but so grate even if you have money.
Lastly if you are working to hard and are too much used to working hard all the time you might not be able to enjoy it, either because you have to learn again how to enjoy life it because of health issues due to so the stress you put on your body.
That's all well and good, but there's always the chance that I'll get T-boned by a drunk driver or run over by a bus tomorrow.
There's probably a happy medium; virtue finds and chooses the mean, right?
There's probably a happy medium; virtue finds and chooses the mean, right?
I'm afraid this is a recipe for not living a LONG life.
> Life isn't short--it's LONG,
A counterexample. My father died when he was 59 after a decade of ill-health. He'd had to give up many of the things that he loved doing as an individual (sailing) and with us as a family (caravanning, long walks, etc). This made a big impression on me (I was mid-20s when he died) and I resolved to focus on things other than wealth maximization but still retire early enough to (hopefully) enjoy my health.
I'm now 60. I retired two years ago after working 3 day weeks for the two previous years. I then transitioned to volunteering for a conservation organisation, and started career 2.0 totally independently of my prior experience / education (software). It was a blast!
Then, five months ago, I had a cardiac arrest - ventricular fibrillation, from which I was de'fibbed and had an ICD [0] fitted. It seems to be a genetic thing rather than lifestyle as my cardiac health is otherwise good. Because of the UK's rules, I lose my driving license for six months from the date of the VF episode. I understand why, as once the VF starts I have less than ten seconds of useful consciousness before passing out, and, if the ICD operates, I get a painful kick in the chest. Thanks to underinvestment, the UK's driving agency currently has a backlog of at least three months in reissuing licenses, so I will likely have nine months not being able to drive (which means that I can't do my volunteering).
My point? Don't assume that you will maintain your youthful vigour for ever as life can throw curveballs.
[0] https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/treatments/implant...
A counterexample. My father died when he was 59 after a decade of ill-health. He'd had to give up many of the things that he loved doing as an individual (sailing) and with us as a family (caravanning, long walks, etc). This made a big impression on me (I was mid-20s when he died) and I resolved to focus on things other than wealth maximization but still retire early enough to (hopefully) enjoy my health.
I'm now 60. I retired two years ago after working 3 day weeks for the two previous years. I then transitioned to volunteering for a conservation organisation, and started career 2.0 totally independently of my prior experience / education (software). It was a blast!
Then, five months ago, I had a cardiac arrest - ventricular fibrillation, from which I was de'fibbed and had an ICD [0] fitted. It seems to be a genetic thing rather than lifestyle as my cardiac health is otherwise good. Because of the UK's rules, I lose my driving license for six months from the date of the VF episode. I understand why, as once the VF starts I have less than ten seconds of useful consciousness before passing out, and, if the ICD operates, I get a painful kick in the chest. Thanks to underinvestment, the UK's driving agency currently has a backlog of at least three months in reissuing licenses, so I will likely have nine months not being able to drive (which means that I can't do my volunteering).
My point? Don't assume that you will maintain your youthful vigour for ever as life can throw curveballs.
[0] https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/treatments/implant...
Well stated, Ryan! Contrarian but sane and very good advice.
The propensity to deal with bullshit, crap that doesn't matter including other people's mission (e.g. startup founders), the internalization of the limited time we have makes the early professional/working years so much more valuable and hence something to maximize.
It's a different path but that pays off handsomely if things work out half as well.
The propensity to deal with bullshit, crap that doesn't matter including other people's mission (e.g. startup founders), the internalization of the limited time we have makes the early professional/working years so much more valuable and hence something to maximize.
It's a different path but that pays off handsomely if things work out half as well.
Yea thats what my dad did. head down, work hard. "save for retirement"
He finally retired and had a stroke a year in. Thankfully he's still with us but with limited mobility. That trip to africa to see wild animals that he was waiting for retirement to do? yea not happening now.
My parents now see the wisdom of me traveling now. Travel and LIVE while you're young enough to enjoy it.
He finally retired and had a stroke a year in. Thankfully he's still with us but with limited mobility. That trip to africa to see wild animals that he was waiting for retirement to do? yea not happening now.
My parents now see the wisdom of me traveling now. Travel and LIVE while you're young enough to enjoy it.
> Due to compounding interest, a dollar made in your 20's is far, far more valuable than a dollar made in your 60's.
Yes. But you'll be earning relatively little when you're young so there won't be too many dollars left at the end of your fixed expenses to pull that trick with, besides, the interest rates are negative at the moment.
Whereas later in life you will likely make a multiple of what you make in your twenties, comfortably offsetting your gains.
Indeed, life is short. So while you're young and healthy, first and foremost ENJOY LIFE rather than to be focused on money and your old age all the time. Those will come anyway.
It's a fine line between having fun and enjoying life versus 'goofing around', but the big trick is to not look back with regret on what you could have done, but instead to appreciate what you have. If you don't your life will be an endless source of frustration.
Yes. But you'll be earning relatively little when you're young so there won't be too many dollars left at the end of your fixed expenses to pull that trick with, besides, the interest rates are negative at the moment.
Whereas later in life you will likely make a multiple of what you make in your twenties, comfortably offsetting your gains.
Indeed, life is short. So while you're young and healthy, first and foremost ENJOY LIFE rather than to be focused on money and your old age all the time. Those will come anyway.
It's a fine line between having fun and enjoying life versus 'goofing around', but the big trick is to not look back with regret on what you could have done, but instead to appreciate what you have. If you don't your life will be an endless source of frustration.
> Yes. But you'll be earning relatively little when you're young so there won't be too many dollars left at the end of your fixed expenses to pull that trick with, besides, the interest rates are negative at the moment.
I don’t think you understand it. The intent is to invest that dollar into a basket of investments for 40 years. The stock market is up this past year, not negstive.
Sure Interest rates are negative but OP did not suggest sticking it in a bank. Besides, inflation eats at the value of a dollar.
I don’t think you understand it. The intent is to invest that dollar into a basket of investments for 40 years. The stock market is up this past year, not negstive.
Sure Interest rates are negative but OP did not suggest sticking it in a bank. Besides, inflation eats at the value of a dollar.
Yes, I totally understood it, but thank you for saying it again.
Compound interest does not apply to the stock market, it applies to savings.
The only way stocks can compound is if you re-invest dividends, and that's not 'interest'.
Inflation eats at the value of the dollar, but not at the value of real estate, so that's one way to make this all work for you: buy a house when you're young at the current low interest rates so that you have a chance to pay it off, and better make sure that you do this in a place that isn't subject to boom/bust cycles.
Compound interest does not apply to the stock market, it applies to savings.
The only way stocks can compound is if you re-invest dividends, and that's not 'interest'.
Inflation eats at the value of the dollar, but not at the value of real estate, so that's one way to make this all work for you: buy a house when you're young at the current low interest rates so that you have a chance to pay it off, and better make sure that you do this in a place that isn't subject to boom/bust cycles.
I wish I could downvote this twice. Don't postpone your life indefinitely in the name of efficiency: plenty of people trying for FIRE die or become injured or diseased before retirement. Live your life. Tomorrow is not guaranteed.
The exact opposite is as bad. Spend all the money for cars, entertainment and fun and your elderly days will be miserable. In addition to health and maybe movement problems you will have trouble to afford medicine, rent or an elderly care and you will be eating cheap junk food. Don't forget that average life expectancy is rising...
Nowhere did I suggest to blow it all on cars and entertainment. If I were to make a suggestion, I would suggest that balance is key. But OP suggested that a trip to Bali was a waste of time and instead that time would be better spent working in big tech. I mean seriously, I get that this is HN but we're getting into satire territory here. A trip to Bali costs what, a few thousand dollars? Big tech salaries are 100k and up, commonly much much more. What do you think money is even for? What are you looking forward to so much in retirement that a trip to bali when you're young is a waste of time?
I did the contrary.
Completely wasted away my young years and money in endless world travels.
Couldn't be happier of my decision.
It's very subjective tough, and highly dependent on your risk tolerance.
> Go windsurfing for a year in Ibiza after college, and you're adding 5 years to your working life
Mist young people can't afford that anyway.
Maybe if you have a wealthy starting points and high standards doing that is a problem.
But for most people retiring before the official retirement age is unlikely, especially given recent economical development.
Similar theire starting point is at a place where for many carrier path that year doesn't matter that much and if you spend it expanding your world view (e.g. work and travel, in the non luxus at all version) might even help you.
Mist young people can't afford that anyway.
Maybe if you have a wealthy starting points and high standards doing that is a problem.
But for most people retiring before the official retirement age is unlikely, especially given recent economical development.
Similar theire starting point is at a place where for many carrier path that year doesn't matter that much and if you spend it expanding your world view (e.g. work and travel, in the non luxus at all version) might even help you.
> body is strong and healthy, when your knees work, and your fingers can type without arthrit
Sadly for many young people that's not the case.
There are physical health issues for some.
Mental ones for other.
Some have social issues, like taking care of their terminal ill parents.
For many their 30th and 40th will be full of stress and sometimes misery.
As a result many won't be able to fully enjoy their life in their 50+, to many health issues, to much baggage from the past.
Sadly for many young people that's not the case.
There are physical health issues for some.
Mental ones for other.
Some have social issues, like taking care of their terminal ill parents.
For many their 30th and 40th will be full of stress and sometimes misery.
As a result many won't be able to fully enjoy their life in their 50+, to many health issues, to much baggage from the past.
My constant dilemma these days is whether to focus more of my young years in new experiences and fun, or if I'll regret it later because I should have invested in a more financial goal. Because the future where I'll see the consequences materialize is so far in the future, and because by then, I'll be too far from choosing another path.
After all, you only have one life.
After all, you only have one life.
> focus more of my young years in new experiences and fun
i think there's a happy balance to be had, and that balance is determined by the amount of money you're making _right now_ (rather than future money).
If you're rich already, then you can push for more consumption over investment/work. It's true that you cannot buy youth.
The problem is when people want to live the life they cannot afford (meaning, they're eating into future retirement funds to live the dream life now), and then expect that the state to secure their retirement years.
i think there's a happy balance to be had, and that balance is determined by the amount of money you're making _right now_ (rather than future money).
If you're rich already, then you can push for more consumption over investment/work. It's true that you cannot buy youth.
The problem is when people want to live the life they cannot afford (meaning, they're eating into future retirement funds to live the dream life now), and then expect that the state to secure their retirement years.
You choose a fair and fine balance.
You work for money, you live for yourself and you don't let some wannabe manager push you/guilt you into wasting your life at work.
Work, invest, take risks but simultaneously do other things. Work is pretty low in the totem pole of priorities.
You work for money, you live for yourself and you don't let some wannabe manager push you/guilt you into wasting your life at work.
Work, invest, take risks but simultaneously do other things. Work is pretty low in the totem pole of priorities.
Though I like your balanced view I don't agree that life is short or long. In my experience the length seems less meaningful as opposed to the life long friend you made surfing Bali.
I took the message as set your own direction and then sieze the day. Whatever you choose to do surf or work or both.
I took the message as set your own direction and then sieze the day. Whatever you choose to do surf or work or both.
> When you're young and unencumbered by responsibility and family, when your cognitive abilities are at their peak, when your energy is endless, when your body is strong and healthy, when your knees work, and your fingers can type without arthritis: that's the optimal time to
...capture the value of those ephemeral capacities directly yourself, whether in recreation or otherwise, rather than yield them to the capitalist capturing the surplus value of your labor.
...capture the value of those ephemeral capacities directly yourself, whether in recreation or otherwise, rather than yield them to the capitalist capturing the surplus value of your labor.
That sounds about right? I get from the structure of your comment you're trying to imply that "capture the value of those ephemeral capacities directly yourself" is better than "rather than yield them to the capitalist capturing the surplus value of your labor", presumably because 100% for the former is bigger (and therefore better) than some fraction less than 100% for the latter. The flaw in that analysis is that in entirely ignores the compounding effect of returns that the parent poster mentions, which allows you to spend more time on yourself later on. Whether the trade-off is worth it depends on a variety of factors, but it's not as simple as "recreation good, capitalists bad".
> I get from the structure of your comment you’re trying to imply that “capture the value of those ephemeral capacities directly yourself” is better than “rather than yield them to the capitalist capturing the surplus value of your labor”, presumably because 100% for the former is bigger (and therefore better) than some fraction less than 100% for the latter. The flaw in that analysis is that in entirely ignores the compounding effect of returns that the parent poster mentions,
No, it doesn’t.
Weighing potential compounding of deferred gratification forms of capture when compared to recreational capture against nearly guaranteed degradation in some of the capacities to actually enjoy things and the risk of gambler’s ruin is an issue, sure, which the upthread paean to deferred gratification ignores the latter side of, but “capture for yourself, recreationally or otherwise” includes capture for deferred gratification that doesn’t yield the lion’s share of the value to a remote capitalist via wage labor.
No, it doesn’t.
Weighing potential compounding of deferred gratification forms of capture when compared to recreational capture against nearly guaranteed degradation in some of the capacities to actually enjoy things and the risk of gambler’s ruin is an issue, sure, which the upthread paean to deferred gratification ignores the latter side of, but “capture for yourself, recreationally or otherwise” includes capture for deferred gratification that doesn’t yield the lion’s share of the value to a remote capitalist via wage labor.
>but “capture for yourself, recreationally or otherwise” includes capture for deferred gratification that doesn’t yield the lion’s share of the value to a remote capitalist via wage labor.
Okay, so it's the same "100% good, some fraction less than 100% bad" argument from before, but instead of being applied to your time, it's being applied to your potential earnings? That line of thinking is also flawed, because even though you theoretically capture 100% of the value when you work for yourself, the value you generate might be less than the value you generate when working for someone else. For instance, working on your own SaaS startup might allow you to capture 100% of the profits of the company, but you also have to take on a bunch of unrelated responsibilities (marketing, sales, accounting, legal, etc.) that you're not good at. For someone who's core competency is just programming, it's plausible that they make more working for themselves than trying to strike out on their own. Not to mention, the risk profiles of "working at MANGA" is entirely different than "working on your own SaaS".
Okay, so it's the same "100% good, some fraction less than 100% bad" argument from before, but instead of being applied to your time, it's being applied to your potential earnings? That line of thinking is also flawed, because even though you theoretically capture 100% of the value when you work for yourself, the value you generate might be less than the value you generate when working for someone else. For instance, working on your own SaaS startup might allow you to capture 100% of the profits of the company, but you also have to take on a bunch of unrelated responsibilities (marketing, sales, accounting, legal, etc.) that you're not good at. For someone who's core competency is just programming, it's plausible that they make more working for themselves than trying to strike out on their own. Not to mention, the risk profiles of "working at MANGA" is entirely different than "working on your own SaaS".
> rather than yield them to the capitalist capturing the surplus value of your labor.
why would someone give you recreational leisure if you don't have the equivalent money to pay? Who will grow the food you eat, produce the electricity and water you consume etc?
why would someone give you recreational leisure if you don't have the equivalent money to pay? Who will grow the food you eat, produce the electricity and water you consume etc?
> why would someone give you recreational leisure if you don’t have the equivalent money to pay?
Where did I refer to anyone giving you anything? I referred to immediate capture of the value of your own present and non-durable capacities.
Where did I refer to anyone giving you anything? I referred to immediate capture of the value of your own present and non-durable capacities.
When you’re young, you’re time rich and cash poor.
When you’re old, you’re cash rich and time poor.
But when you’re young you’re healthy, which is more important than both.
If you’re in your 20s and not hitting the gym regularly, start now. Wish I hadn’t left it so long, it will change your life.
When you’re old, you’re cash rich and time poor.
But when you’re young you’re healthy, which is more important than both.
If you’re in your 20s and not hitting the gym regularly, start now. Wish I hadn’t left it so long, it will change your life.
When your family and kids appear, work stops being a 0-sum game. Instead, you're constantly arbitraging between it and the rest of your life. The good news is that you can recognise and structure it as a positive or a negative sum game.
That’s the worst piece of advice I have ever read. We are humans not machines, chasing money should never be a goal in itself. Manu people have a successful and accomplished life by non financial metrics.
Compounding interest is an abberration and wastes the good days.
Wrong. Making your youth all about money is as wasteful as making it all about spending it. You can do both you know, make money but not spend all of it.
Life is only long if it all goes to plan...
This is incredibly disheartening.
"sell your time & youth to capitalism so you can suffer through it more comfortably later."
Our society is a nightmare lol
Our society is a nightmare lol
Pithy, but true.
It's only half the story, though. Moderation and balance are the real key. Overwork is not good in the long term. But underwork can also be a problem, even when employers let it slide.
Starting in my 30s, my friends who operated in the extremes of overwork or underwork started to diverge from everyone else. Overworked people were burnt out and had few friends and social connections left. Underworking people were often first to be laid off and slowly fell behind in their skills relative to everyone they were competing against for jobs.
Most of them found balance and got back on track, but I know a few holdouts who went all-in on the vagabond life of traveling the world and having fun, as well as a few who have just disappeared into their work and have basically lost social skills at this point.
Balance and moderation aren't really that difficult when you make them a priority. Especially in this job market where employers aren't squeezing employees as hard because everyone has so many alternate opportunities.
It's only half the story, though. Moderation and balance are the real key. Overwork is not good in the long term. But underwork can also be a problem, even when employers let it slide.
Starting in my 30s, my friends who operated in the extremes of overwork or underwork started to diverge from everyone else. Overworked people were burnt out and had few friends and social connections left. Underworking people were often first to be laid off and slowly fell behind in their skills relative to everyone they were competing against for jobs.
Most of them found balance and got back on track, but I know a few holdouts who went all-in on the vagabond life of traveling the world and having fun, as well as a few who have just disappeared into their work and have basically lost social skills at this point.
Balance and moderation aren't really that difficult when you make them a priority. Especially in this job market where employers aren't squeezing employees as hard because everyone has so many alternate opportunities.
Oh man. I wish I had listened more carefully to this advice before the pandemic. I was not mentally in a good place couple months ago after being really burnt out working for my former employer (good team and good manager but the senior leadership really dngaf and workload reflected that as much). I was working 100+ hrs/week for weeks on end during the pandemic and really deprioritized personal connection and taking care of myself.
Looking back, the pandemic gave me an excuse to overwork since I was really determined to jump into SRE/ops world of things from helpdesk after slogging away in life sciences after graduation.
I've gained alot of weight (now I'm back to my pre-covid weight), lost hair, and lot of my social connections got strained. Fortunately I am still 30 so hopefully I'll be able to correct my past decisions but I'm finding out that correcting the direction of your decision becomes more difficult as you get older.
Your bit about moderation and balance seem to be aligned with what Sam Altman's advice on life before 30 (especially points 3, 4, 9, and 29).
Looking back, the pandemic gave me an excuse to overwork since I was really determined to jump into SRE/ops world of things from helpdesk after slogging away in life sciences after graduation.
I've gained alot of weight (now I'm back to my pre-covid weight), lost hair, and lot of my social connections got strained. Fortunately I am still 30 so hopefully I'll be able to correct my past decisions but I'm finding out that correcting the direction of your decision becomes more difficult as you get older.
Your bit about moderation and balance seem to be aligned with what Sam Altman's advice on life before 30 (especially points 3, 4, 9, and 29).
Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Reminds me of one of my favorite poems (which expressed a similar idea far more eloquently imo)
Telephone Booth (number 905 1/2) BY PEDRO PIETRI woke up this morning feeling excellent, picked up the telephone dialed the number of my equal opportunity employer to inform him I will not be into work today Are you feeling sick? the boss asked me No Sir I replied: I am feeling too good to report to work today, if I feel sick tomorrow I will come in early
Telephone Booth (number 905 1/2) BY PEDRO PIETRI woke up this morning feeling excellent, picked up the telephone dialed the number of my equal opportunity employer to inform him I will not be into work today Are you feeling sick? the boss asked me No Sir I replied: I am feeling too good to report to work today, if I feel sick tomorrow I will come in early
I've never heard of Pedro Pietri, but that read like a Mitch Hedberg line.
I listened to the whole album by Pietro Pietri which included this poem - loved it!
People look at me like I’m insane when I tell them I’m packing up and taking a year off.
I’ve f’in had enough. And that’s me, the wife and our two kids- not quite school age. No I haven’t FIREd. No I’m probably passing up a raise and a promo (or maybe not). Super linear growth requires super linear decision making. You either follow the sheeple or decide enough is enough and make some drastic change. Im not getting these years back and for the life of me can’t understand those who say, I’m gonna work till I’m 55 and then I’m done.
Anyways HN fam- I’m already done.
Here’s to 2022
See y’all in Penang.
I’ve f’in had enough. And that’s me, the wife and our two kids- not quite school age. No I haven’t FIREd. No I’m probably passing up a raise and a promo (or maybe not). Super linear growth requires super linear decision making. You either follow the sheeple or decide enough is enough and make some drastic change. Im not getting these years back and for the life of me can’t understand those who say, I’m gonna work till I’m 55 and then I’m done.
Anyways HN fam- I’m already done.
Here’s to 2022
See y’all in Penang.
Congratulations, hope you have a great time! I took an adult gap year, and it was one of the best decisions of my life.
Life in an American suburb is a series of goalposts. Every few years, a new school. Then you go to college, find yourself, and discover that a career is more of the same: every few years, a new promotion/job/grant.
When I realized that, I figured that my joints and back would be at least as ageist as my future employers, and quit. Having watched a lot of Top Gear in school, I bought a dirt bike, modified an old pickup into a mini-RV, and went on a tour of the US' forests and national parks.
It was incredible. Exploring such an enormous and diverse area presents you with a lot of new perspectives. Of course, it was a terrible financial decision which I couldn't really afford, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
As I enter my 30s and start to see my peers get seriously hurt by activities like skiing and climbing, I find myself scaling back my "see the whole world" ambitions. Maybe I played things too safe, but I'm definitely glad that I didn't stay in my rut.
Anyways, it's nice to have a chance to contemplate your place in life and society while you're still spry enough to shurg off a few falls. Even my grandmother took an ill-advised teens-20s road trip across the iron curtain. A good walkabout should be a basic human right.
Life in an American suburb is a series of goalposts. Every few years, a new school. Then you go to college, find yourself, and discover that a career is more of the same: every few years, a new promotion/job/grant.
When I realized that, I figured that my joints and back would be at least as ageist as my future employers, and quit. Having watched a lot of Top Gear in school, I bought a dirt bike, modified an old pickup into a mini-RV, and went on a tour of the US' forests and national parks.
It was incredible. Exploring such an enormous and diverse area presents you with a lot of new perspectives. Of course, it was a terrible financial decision which I couldn't really afford, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
As I enter my 30s and start to see my peers get seriously hurt by activities like skiing and climbing, I find myself scaling back my "see the whole world" ambitions. Maybe I played things too safe, but I'm definitely glad that I didn't stay in my rut.
Anyways, it's nice to have a chance to contemplate your place in life and society while you're still spry enough to shurg off a few falls. Even my grandmother took an ill-advised teens-20s road trip across the iron curtain. A good walkabout should be a basic human right.
> See y’all in Penang.
Then what? I like to imagine that if there is a secret to human happiness it must be something which was available to all the ~hundred billion humans who lived before air travel, boats, cars, cheap foreign holidays. Life would be awfully unfair otherwise.
https://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/2019/08/14 I've also holidayed casually enough to know that me alone in a foreign city isn't as exciting as it seemed before leaving, and that the limitations are in me, not the city.
( https://youtu.be/724td2H87d8?t=224 )
Then what? I like to imagine that if there is a secret to human happiness it must be something which was available to all the ~hundred billion humans who lived before air travel, boats, cars, cheap foreign holidays. Life would be awfully unfair otherwise.
https://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/2019/08/14 I've also holidayed casually enough to know that me alone in a foreign city isn't as exciting as it seemed before leaving, and that the limitations are in me, not the city.
( https://youtu.be/724td2H87d8?t=224 )
Then you go back to work. There's nothing wrong with taking some time off to broaden your horizons every now and then.
We might all benefit from a stipend to take a long leave for continuing education or travel every decade or so. Many innovations have sprung from the intersections of diverse cultures and fields of study.
We might all benefit from a stipend to take a long leave for continuing education or travel every decade or so. Many innovations have sprung from the intersections of diverse cultures and fields of study.
I stumbled upon the same line of thought. Many of the things we do nowadays to be happy were unavailable before — travel, buy, consume, etc. Does it mean humans long ago were less happy?
Any chance you know any readings tackling this idea?
Any chance you know any readings tackling this idea?
That was my 1999. Left for Hawaii. Then CA, Berlin, Tokyo, Singapore. Goodspeed.
I took off right before the pandemic. Now I'm living in Tokyo, engaged, and like my job. Doing weird shit rocks.
"Doing weird shit rocks!" I want this in a sticker.
Can you tell more about your job? I love Tokyo, but the work environment seemed to have a lot of drawbacks (general long hours, presence over productivity restricted days off) Did that change, or are you good with it, or did you find a different niche?
Survivor bias?
Really hard to know. My personal experience is that whenever I do weird shit, however, I've ended up in a better place? That is also itself a weird thing. Anyway, great comment, I just don't even know how to begin knowing the truth of this one without a personal belief based on lived experience. How would you even design an experiment to find the truth of this one?
I don't think so. If you put some effort into your fallback plan, and choose your weird shit so that it's likely to work out, I think it can just be a good bet. And it's hard to imagine working up the energy to do it if you're really happy where you are, you know?
I guess everyone's journey is different.
Amen!
Congratulations bro. You have the gut to do this with a family. My wife is going to rip me open if I do something similar. Actually after second thought, work is probably more interesting than whatever residual life after it. I'll keep working.
> My wife is going to rip me open if I do something similar.
Yikes.
Yikes.
Did the same but 1 year in Bali has now been 8. Couldn't be happier.
How did you get the visa to stay in Bali for 8 years? Genuine question. What nationality are you?
You only need 1Bn IDR (~$70k USD) for an investor visa.
I would hope if you're planning to take an entire year off - you have AT LEAST $70k net wealth...
I would hope if you're planning to take an entire year off - you have AT LEAST $70k net wealth...
Do you need to actually pay/invest or just show that you own your 70k?
https://visaagencybali.com/visa/investor-visa/
You need to invest in a company - but IIUC you could just buy ~$70k shares of Indonesia Telecom (i.e.), live there for 3 years, collect dividends, and then cash out when you're done.
Under normal conditions, I wouldn't want to invest ~$70k in some Indonesian large cap I know nothing about.
But if I wanted to live in Bali for a year, this is a pretty easy way to do it...
You need to invest in a company - but IIUC you could just buy ~$70k shares of Indonesia Telecom (i.e.), live there for 3 years, collect dividends, and then cash out when you're done.
Under normal conditions, I wouldn't want to invest ~$70k in some Indonesian large cap I know nothing about.
But if I wanted to live in Bali for a year, this is a pretty easy way to do it...
This is not accurate anylonger - the new way is to form a PMA with two people. Then you can sponsor your own kitas.
While you don't have any equity in stocks, you are also immune from loss there. It becomes a cost - you can form a PMA from 25-60 juta and do an investor kitas fro 18 juta (million.)
You also don't need to give up 70k liquidity, on the risk that it may not come back and for dividends which are 100% taxable in the country (about 23% AFAIK.) because you must report revenue annually.
70K in stocks w/ dividends OR form a corporate structure for about $3000.
The other alternative is b211a/social visa, which is 60 days and about 1 million a month after per renewal up to 6 months, meaning, 4 renewals at 4 juta/million IDR and then 3 million to apply - so 7 juta total every 6 months MAX. 14 annually.
If you need more info, feel free to reach out - surprised this topic was on HN .
While you don't have any equity in stocks, you are also immune from loss there. It becomes a cost - you can form a PMA from 25-60 juta and do an investor kitas fro 18 juta (million.)
You also don't need to give up 70k liquidity, on the risk that it may not come back and for dividends which are 100% taxable in the country (about 23% AFAIK.) because you must report revenue annually.
70K in stocks w/ dividends OR form a corporate structure for about $3000.
The other alternative is b211a/social visa, which is 60 days and about 1 million a month after per renewal up to 6 months, meaning, 4 renewals at 4 juta/million IDR and then 3 million to apply - so 7 juta total every 6 months MAX. 14 annually.
If you need more info, feel free to reach out - surprised this topic was on HN .
Very, very few people pay such an amount yet stay many years legally. There's some "fluidity" in the system.
Pedantic - but you aren't really "paying" that amount.
You're investing in something easy to liquidate which has a history of not losing value.
You're investing in something easy to liquidate which has a history of not losing value.
Fair enough, but there are alternatives that avoid that payment altogether.
First four years tourist visa with extensions. Then a KITAS (limited stay permit).
You can setup a company here which entitles you to a KITAS.
It's not as hard as it sounds, and much easier than a foreigner staying in the USA, however it will vary a little depending on your country of citizenship.
You can setup a company here which entitles you to a KITAS.
It's not as hard as it sounds, and much easier than a foreigner staying in the USA, however it will vary a little depending on your country of citizenship.
Is it hard to stay there for that long? Most people just keep doing visa runs on 3 month tourist visas in SEA. The Bangkok visa run is a treasured pilgramage.
You can't visa run in Thailand anymore, it's been like that for several years now and especially not recently with covid. Immigration won't let you in arbitrarily if they see you doing visa runs "too much". Too much is at their discretion so you can't rely on it
Oh really? I must have not hit the limit before covid hit. I thought countries usually have a problem with stamping in and stamping out the entire length of your visa free stay and repeatedly doing it, but I didn't think they had an issue with visiting Thailand every 3 months for 1 or 2 days at a time.
I support this. I took 5–6 months off and moved to Thailand a few years back without a real plan other than the minimum to fulfill a student visa. I've done a lot of incidental travels renewing visa. Probably the best move I had made. ชีวิตชิวดี
You are likely smart and skilled enough to not ever die of hunger. Have faith and take the leap. Things work out, like they always do.
Multiple mini retirements are where it's at. Enjoy your year off!
I’m on the tail end of a 3 month break, returning to work on Tuesday. I worried I would not have enough to do, but id gladly take 3 more months right now.
If you're U.S. based and plan to live in Penang, Malaysia, that is going to be quite rough if/when the children want an American education. Many would kill for u.s. citizenship because of quality of living, medical support, and a court system that is mostly workable if you have money. Of course, I'm assuming based on lack of information. I hope it works for you.
I been in penang few times and even recently lived for a year [spend first one year of pandemic there] There are many expats there and very easy to make friends with locals - most people speak English.
Quality of life per dollar is also much better. It's common to eat out 3 times per day outside - and don't havd to be rich or willing to burn lots of money - many locals eat outside because it's good and cheap - 2-3 dollars for good quality even vegan meal.
Quality of medicine is also good and much much much cheaper than usa - actually many Indonesian fly to penang to get better quality medical service.
Cost of living even with family it will be probsbly like 1/3 of typical expenses in western world.
If you can work remotely to us or eu company and stay on business visa (mtep) or malaysia my second home visa (now unfortunately out of reach for most of people) them that's the best of 2 world.
Quality of life per dollar is also much better. It's common to eat out 3 times per day outside - and don't havd to be rich or willing to burn lots of money - many locals eat outside because it's good and cheap - 2-3 dollars for good quality even vegan meal.
Quality of medicine is also good and much much much cheaper than usa - actually many Indonesian fly to penang to get better quality medical service.
Cost of living even with family it will be probsbly like 1/3 of typical expenses in western world.
If you can work remotely to us or eu company and stay on business visa (mtep) or malaysia my second home visa (now unfortunately out of reach for most of people) them that's the best of 2 world.
I am with you. So fkin done with work (aka management and coworkers) wasting my precious time on this planet - on pointless nitpicks and micromanaging standups.
Typed from a hammock on a tropical beach.
Typed from a hammock on a tropical beach.
If you're at a beach, on a hammock... put that phone down, son. (:
The news.yc crowd may not be all too different from your managers and co-workers. They are but a similar people in a different setting.
The news.yc crowd may not be all too different from your managers and co-workers. They are but a similar people in a different setting.
On a coffee tour, will get back to you later.
Jk, its the freedom from having to be present that makes retirement worthwhile. I still love tech and I still want to blog, read and talk about tech. I just don't want to waste my life on bullshit meetings and work that is meant to impress some management.
Jk, its the freedom from having to be present that makes retirement worthwhile. I still love tech and I still want to blog, read and talk about tech. I just don't want to waste my life on bullshit meetings and work that is meant to impress some management.
I did a three day weekend in barselon- it was awesome I ported our windows app to Mac - 2004
Why Penang?
Penang has some of the best street food in the world.
I'm aware, and I can eat my body weight in malaysian style satay, nasi lemak, roti chani, and muthrabak.
But, eating that food for an entire year would get old quickly, especially for young kids who are (presumably) groomed on American food.
But, eating that food for an entire year would get old quickly, especially for young kids who are (presumably) groomed on American food.
Have a wonderful time. Carpe annum.
Ahah. Went from majoring in math to killing trees. I get to wield what an in-law calls a “motor sword” every day. I feel gud.
jmspring(1)
“The memories of a man in his old age are the deeds of a man in his prime”
Make those deeds count. Start that company. Take that year off to travel. Do the big memorable things, not the long tedious slog
You’ll still feel young when others are retiring
Make those deeds count. Start that company. Take that year off to travel. Do the big memorable things, not the long tedious slog
You’ll still feel young when others are retiring
I am 59 and one of my best pleasures is to program and learn, sometimes I would prefer to develop an useful program than to surf in Ibiza, the more you know the more you enjoy learning,
“Their schedule isn’t your schedule unless it helps you get where you’re going.“
- someone who is not a parent
This feels like a common theme for videos, blogs, etc of the whole "I wasted my 20s or 30s".
You’ve probably heard the old analogy that there is an imbalance of our time, money, and energy depending on what stage we are in throughout our lives. If you haven’t, it’s the idea that when we’re young, we have no money. When we’re middle-aged, we have no time. And when we’re elderly, we have no energy.
Work will always follow Parkinson's Law which is an old adage that work will expand to fill the time allotted. If you do not choose to take control over your time, your work can take over your life.
Our time is precious. It’s the one resource we cannot replenish, yet we treat it like disposable income or energy.
Rather we should say No to more things(especially work related). It’s the single word that will give you time, money, and energy. No gives you more autonomy and allows you to consistently follow through with your routine or spur of the moment activities. This simple word is the difference between seeing your outcomes and reaching your goals yet nobody does it. Yes lives on as a commitment. No is a decision.
You’ve probably heard the old analogy that there is an imbalance of our time, money, and energy depending on what stage we are in throughout our lives. If you haven’t, it’s the idea that when we’re young, we have no money. When we’re middle-aged, we have no time. And when we’re elderly, we have no energy.
Work will always follow Parkinson's Law which is an old adage that work will expand to fill the time allotted. If you do not choose to take control over your time, your work can take over your life.
Our time is precious. It’s the one resource we cannot replenish, yet we treat it like disposable income or energy.
Rather we should say No to more things(especially work related). It’s the single word that will give you time, money, and energy. No gives you more autonomy and allows you to consistently follow through with your routine or spur of the moment activities. This simple word is the difference between seeing your outcomes and reaching your goals yet nobody does it. Yes lives on as a commitment. No is a decision.
It's all well and good to say this, and even act it out occasionally, but if I approach life in general with that mindset then who will provide a secure environment for my daughter?
Following my creative desires has taken me out of my corporate engineering job and through waves of wonder and waves of and disaster (including financial, for awhile), and now after all of that, to a project I'm perfectly suited for and deeply passionate about, with some of the smartest people I've ever met.
The thing about sayings like this - they're not just a thing you do, they're a practice you develop and a flow that you become more skillful at adhering to. I've been through hell and back following what's felt true to my creative instincts, and as brutal as it's been, along the way I've by necessity internalized what meaningful work means to me and what freedoms I'm (not) willing to sacrifice.
It can be a brutal path, but (at least in my experience) every level you become more skillful at it and the flexibility and sense of trust in yourself translate in powerful ways to creative and professional potency. If you intentionally hone them in that direction.
My 2c, at least. It's a worthwhile journey.
The thing about sayings like this - they're not just a thing you do, they're a practice you develop and a flow that you become more skillful at adhering to. I've been through hell and back following what's felt true to my creative instincts, and as brutal as it's been, along the way I've by necessity internalized what meaningful work means to me and what freedoms I'm (not) willing to sacrifice.
It can be a brutal path, but (at least in my experience) every level you become more skillful at it and the flexibility and sense of trust in yourself translate in powerful ways to creative and professional potency. If you intentionally hone them in that direction.
My 2c, at least. It's a worthwhile journey.
Joke's on you. I don't have any good days. :^)
One way to look at it is through the eyes of a Regret Minimization Framework. Which path leads to the fewest or least serious regrets later in life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regret_%28decision_theory%29
https://fourweekmba.com/regret-minimization-framework/
https://hn.algolia.com/?q=regret+minimization+framework
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regret_%28decision_theory%29
https://fourweekmba.com/regret-minimization-framework/
https://hn.algolia.com/?q=regret+minimization+framework
Warren Buffett is known for keeping his calendar open so he can keep his own time: “I better be careful with it. There is no way I will be able to buy more.”
I'm already doing that, the main issue is then getting back on people's schedule. I somehow end up going to sleep at 6am if I follow my mood...
When you're feeling good, do what you can to improve your life or enjoy it. When you're feeling bad, do what you can get through it.
Carpe Diem!
Happy New Years yall!
Happy New Years yall!
A rich person ascribing to perceived effort, what should be ascribed mostly to luck of circumstance.
Effort and luck of circumstance are both on a spectrum. It's rare to become wealthy simply with extremes of either diligence or luck.
Regardless, the unlucky can generally do better by being diligent versus not being diligent. It's the part you can control.
Regardless, the unlucky can generally do better by being diligent versus not being diligent. It's the part you can control.
Folks might be inspired by reading Die with Zero - I sure was.
Could you tell us more about your inspiration :))?
I thought the book made a good case for frontloading enjoyment in your life and not putting off such things until a distant future glorious retirement.
They also talked about income smoothing, which is essentially a justification for, under some situations, spending more money that you "should" earlier, because later, you'll be older & less able to enjoy it -- and hopefully later you'll be making more money too anyway.
They also talked about income smoothing, which is essentially a justification for, under some situations, spending more money that you "should" earlier, because later, you'll be older & less able to enjoy it -- and hopefully later you'll be making more money too anyway.
>The calendar belongs to everyone else. Their schedule isn’t your schedule unless it helps you get where you’re going.
I guess this works if you are self-employed and or live alone
I guess this works if you are self-employed and or live alone
Why though ? Specially since covid, I don't see why knowledge workers can't just follow their own schedule, subject to constraints such as "meeting at x" of course.
This is an attitude more than anything I'd say, the "follow the calendar" mentality doesn't have to apply to you unless you choose so.
This is an attitude more than anything I'd say, the "follow the calendar" mentality doesn't have to apply to you unless you choose so.
it shouldn't be a big deal for someone to step outside to hike for an hour or two, or to hit the gym mid day, or to pick their kids up from school. In my experience, the tech industry has been very accommodating of these flex schedules. Unless you're responsible for on-call, nearly everything can wait for an hour or two. People are often in meetings for that long anyway, so it's not much different if they take a hike or hit the gym or something.
Taking longer (unplanned) amounts of time away from the keyboard is a different issue, though. If your work is truly isolated from the team and it's getting done on time, then it shouldn't matter when you're doing it. In fact, your employer wouldn't even know if you were at your desk or not as long as the work shows up.
In practice, though, most people's work isn't actually fully isolated and asynchronous. If other people need to work on something with you or ask questions, it's a huge pain to play ping-pong with messages back and forth every several hours or even every day to solve things that could have been accomplished in 5 minutes of synchronous chat.
This is why most remote companies will try to avoid creating teams that span too many timezones. Collaboration and teamwork plummet when real-time communication isn't a thing and nobody can ever predict when others will be available without scheduling meetings long in advance.
I know it's not popular on HN, but in my experience few engineering jobs are truly asynchronous and isolated like this. Flexing schedules here and there is honestly enough to do most things that people want and need to do on a regular basis anyway. It's the people who are disappearing for entire days (e.g. taking vacation days without actually declaring a vacation day) who cause the problems.
Taking longer (unplanned) amounts of time away from the keyboard is a different issue, though. If your work is truly isolated from the team and it's getting done on time, then it shouldn't matter when you're doing it. In fact, your employer wouldn't even know if you were at your desk or not as long as the work shows up.
In practice, though, most people's work isn't actually fully isolated and asynchronous. If other people need to work on something with you or ask questions, it's a huge pain to play ping-pong with messages back and forth every several hours or even every day to solve things that could have been accomplished in 5 minutes of synchronous chat.
This is why most remote companies will try to avoid creating teams that span too many timezones. Collaboration and teamwork plummet when real-time communication isn't a thing and nobody can ever predict when others will be available without scheduling meetings long in advance.
I know it's not popular on HN, but in my experience few engineering jobs are truly asynchronous and isolated like this. Flexing schedules here and there is honestly enough to do most things that people want and need to do on a regular basis anyway. It's the people who are disappearing for entire days (e.g. taking vacation days without actually declaring a vacation day) who cause the problems.
A lot of employers still won't allow that even though it's possible.
You have to be online on messaging services/contactable by email with quick response during normal hours, making it very hard to do much else in this time.
Covid has meant more people working remotely, but hasn't changed working schedules that much from what i have seen here at least.
You have to be online on messaging services/contactable by email with quick response during normal hours, making it very hard to do much else in this time.
Covid has meant more people working remotely, but hasn't changed working schedules that much from what i have seen here at least.
What do you mean by "won't allow"
What's "online" with a "quick response" - suppose you step away for 45 mins to work out? Is someone giving you a hard time because your response time to an email or a Slack message is not immediate? Does that question or inquiry need to be handled that quickly?
Lots of things like this seem like a failure to set expectations. We're allowed to deliberately block our calendars, right? That might mean you close your email and do an hour of work solid, or work out, or run an errand. But it's possible, with some deliberate calendar planning, and frankly transparency with those expecting something from you.
"I won't be available for the next 45 mins because [X]" is a pretty easy statement to deliver
What's "online" with a "quick response" - suppose you step away for 45 mins to work out? Is someone giving you a hard time because your response time to an email or a Slack message is not immediate? Does that question or inquiry need to be handled that quickly?
Lots of things like this seem like a failure to set expectations. We're allowed to deliberately block our calendars, right? That might mean you close your email and do an hour of work solid, or work out, or run an errand. But it's possible, with some deliberate calendar planning, and frankly transparency with those expecting something from you.
"I won't be available for the next 45 mins because [X]" is a pretty easy statement to deliver
How can you get 'in the zone' with constant messaging/on-call. I'm glad not to be in such position.
I have to meet with colleagues 10 and 16 hours ahead, which translates to early AM and late PM meetings. If I want to work an honest 8 hours, I'd have to take a mid-day siesta. And my leadership says I have to lead these teams, since improper requirements gathering and language barriers can reduce productivity. I don't have much of a choice.
Sounds like you should go find a new job ASAP.
I'm just toast after 8 hours of work. And if i shift something to another day it's just way too much.
I can shift to free days which can even feel relaxing. But that means gifting my employer the best hours of my free days too.
I can shift to free days which can even feel relaxing. But that means gifting my employer the best hours of my free days too.
Having a schedule that works for you is still important.
When detached from the rhythm of the processes where you work together with others, it's easy to start slacking, or to start overworking, unless you have another source of rhythm. I've seen people critically dependent on the lunch break to have their lunch; without the external signal, they complained, they tend to forget about it, to the detriment of their health and mood.
When detached from the rhythm of the processes where you work together with others, it's easy to start slacking, or to start overworking, unless you have another source of rhythm. I've seen people critically dependent on the lunch break to have their lunch; without the external signal, they complained, they tend to forget about it, to the detriment of their health and mood.
Because if you say at standup "I'm going to work on X" and then you don't work on X, you lose the trust of the people you said that to.
Figure out what you're going to do, tell people what you're going to do, and then do it.
I’m neither and it’s true for me, my partner, and our jobs.
If I don’t want to work, I take PTO and the meetings happen another day.
If I want to go for an all-day run or bike ride, I let my partner know my plan and when I’ll be home and whether I’ll pick up dinner. Once I came home to find she left a note on the fridge saying she was doing a spontaneous century on her bike and could I get her a soda.
Does this stuff happen all the time? No. That’s why it can happen.
If I don’t want to work, I take PTO and the meetings happen another day.
If I want to go for an all-day run or bike ride, I let my partner know my plan and when I’ll be home and whether I’ll pick up dinner. Once I came home to find she left a note on the fridge saying she was doing a spontaneous century on her bike and could I get her a soda.
Does this stuff happen all the time? No. That’s why it can happen.
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It works as soon as you kindly tell people to fuck off, you're busy. The less busy you are with meetings, the more focused time you have to deliver, and the more weight your words carry when you tell them you don't do meetings you're not absolutely needed for.
I suspect that to the wrong person at the wrong time, this would be taken as an excuse to procrastinate.
Finally a blog post that respects my time and delivers the message despite.
Sounds a little like "Self help platitude 101".
Sounds like someone has been listening to Alan Watts :)
Friendly reminder that being able to pack up and take a sabbatical year off is still privilege. If you can't just get up and leave to enjoy your good days, don't blame yourself. Most people can't.
> is still privilege
The guy worked hard and earned his year off, don’t dismiss it by calling it privilege. He has the skills and intelligence and hard working habits to earn the year off, this is not privilege. Successful people aren’t successful because of privilege, that’s just a label for an excuse by those who aren’t successful. You get what you earn in life.
The guy worked hard and earned his year off, don’t dismiss it by calling it privilege. He has the skills and intelligence and hard working habits to earn the year off, this is not privilege. Successful people aren’t successful because of privilege, that’s just a label for an excuse by those who aren’t successful. You get what you earn in life.
Can everybody earn a year off after working hard?
No, because this is privilege. To be born in a rich country. To have family structure to study and go to college, to have a stable job and a successful career after graduation. To be lucky enough to choose a career that is in demand. Or to open a business that is successful.
People underestimate A LOT how much of a role luck plays in successful careers. Sure hard work is necessary, but you can very well burn out and still be unsuccessful.
If you can't see this, maybe this is your privilege that is blinding you from what most people go through in life.
No, because this is privilege. To be born in a rich country. To have family structure to study and go to college, to have a stable job and a successful career after graduation. To be lucky enough to choose a career that is in demand. Or to open a business that is successful.
People underestimate A LOT how much of a role luck plays in successful careers. Sure hard work is necessary, but you can very well burn out and still be unsuccessful.
If you can't see this, maybe this is your privilege that is blinding you from what most people go through in life.
This seems to me "glibly trivial". Of course most of us are relatively privileged to someone who was born blind and got cancer at the age of three, but it is a shallow observation.
Luck is something that happens to a lot of people, including the unsuccessful ones, but few of us, successful or not, are willing to admit that we burnt some chance, or several of them. It is easier to blame someone else or something else (absence of necessary luck) for unsatisfactory results. It is easier to attribute certain satisfactory results in other people to their luck, without discussing the effort necessary to exploit that luck or even recognize a lucky set of circumstances and act on them (because these tend to be fleeting).
We are more of a rationalizing species than a rational one, and we are really good at framing things in a way that strokes our egos.
Luck is something that happens to a lot of people, including the unsuccessful ones, but few of us, successful or not, are willing to admit that we burnt some chance, or several of them. It is easier to blame someone else or something else (absence of necessary luck) for unsatisfactory results. It is easier to attribute certain satisfactory results in other people to their luck, without discussing the effort necessary to exploit that luck or even recognize a lucky set of circumstances and act on them (because these tend to be fleeting).
We are more of a rationalizing species than a rational one, and we are really good at framing things in a way that strokes our egos.
Not to mention intelligence, willingness to work hard, etc are all highly heritable, aka genetic luck
So?
Being smart sometimes has downsides, eg existential crises etc
Life is not fair.
Being smart sometimes has downsides, eg existential crises etc
Life is not fair.
I think “privilege” is just the excuse used by people who aren’t willing to work hard, aren’t willing to put the extra time into learning a new skill, or aren’t willing to acknowledge that they didn’t get blessed genetically. It’s easier to create some label and blame everything on that. “Oh, I’m not rich at age 30. Must be privilege.” “Oh, I got passed over for that promotion. Must be their privilege”. People need to take some self ownership - the world isn’t a fair place. Stop blaming someone else and have a little introspection about why you aren’t the one taking a year off.
I mean, your statement “To be lucky enough to choose a career that is in demand” just misses the mark so entirely. There’s NO LUCK INVOLVED!! People on HN didn’t pick their major/hobby out of a hat. The picked tech because they love it and it pays well, and they have the intelligence to do it well. If someone chooses to be a street musician, they can’t blame “privilege” when they can’t take a year off.
“maybe this is your privilege that is blinding you” - no, maybe your rose colored glasses are blinding you here. Not everyone can take a year off, the world is unfair, and some people will live better lives than others. Deal with it.
I mean, your statement “To be lucky enough to choose a career that is in demand” just misses the mark so entirely. There’s NO LUCK INVOLVED!! People on HN didn’t pick their major/hobby out of a hat. The picked tech because they love it and it pays well, and they have the intelligence to do it well. If someone chooses to be a street musician, they can’t blame “privilege” when they can’t take a year off.
“maybe this is your privilege that is blinding you” - no, maybe your rose colored glasses are blinding you here. Not everyone can take a year off, the world is unfair, and some people will live better lives than others. Deal with it.
There certainly is luck involved in choosing a hobby which turns into a lucrative skill. And privilege involved when that hobby is programming which involves having sufficient access to fairly expensive machines.
I think "rose colored glasses" may not be the expression you were looking for. The person you are replying to is not ignoring inequity, they are acknowledging it. Sure people will always live better lives than others, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't work towards a more fair world.
Recognizing that the playing field isn't level, and that outcomes aren't controlled only by the amount of hard work you put in makes it easier to push towards a better world.
I think "rose colored glasses" may not be the expression you were looking for. The person you are replying to is not ignoring inequity, they are acknowledging it. Sure people will always live better lives than others, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't work towards a more fair world.
Recognizing that the playing field isn't level, and that outcomes aren't controlled only by the amount of hard work you put in makes it easier to push towards a better world.
> There’s NO LUCK INVOLVED!! People on HN didn’t pick their major/hobby out of a hat. The picked tech because they love it and it pays well, and they have the intelligence to do it well.
I don't know about you but it was certainly luck for me. I was lucky to be born where, when, and to whom. Tweak any of those variables a bit and I'd be in a completely different career. A few hundred miles east and I'd be living on a farm instead of a suburb of Big Tech City. A decade prior and I wouldn't have had access to computers in school. Different parents and I might not have had the same encouragement to get into tech. It's an incredible amount of luck when you actually think about it and don't just jerk your knee when someone uses the term privilege.
I don't know about you but it was certainly luck for me. I was lucky to be born where, when, and to whom. Tweak any of those variables a bit and I'd be in a completely different career. A few hundred miles east and I'd be living on a farm instead of a suburb of Big Tech City. A decade prior and I wouldn't have had access to computers in school. Different parents and I might not have had the same encouragement to get into tech. It's an incredible amount of luck when you actually think about it and don't just jerk your knee when someone uses the term privilege.
> Not everyone can take a year off, the world is unfair, and some people will live better lives than others.
This is literally what privilege means. It's not an insult.
This is literally what privilege means. It's not an insult.
[deleted]
You should read Nassim Taleb, especially Fooled by Randomness
[deleted]
> don’t dismiss it by calling it privilege
There are literally millions of people who deserve / have "earned" this privilege, but aren't given it. The word lucky comes to mind.
There are literally millions of people who deserve / have "earned" this privilege, but aren't given it. The word lucky comes to mind.
If everyone in the world was just smart and hard working enough they could all take a year off together.
And at the same time!
>that’s just a label for an excuse by those who aren’t successful. You get what you earn in life.
To take an extreme example: how hard do the children of Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Sergey Brin, etc have to work to "earn" their fortunes and success?
To take an extreme example: how hard do the children of Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Sergey Brin, etc have to work to "earn" their fortunes and success?
> Successful people aren’t successful because of privilege, that’s just a label for an excuse by those who aren’t successful. You get what you earn in life.
I wish there were words to convince you of how profoundly incorrect you are about this.
Unfortunately, it will probably require years and pain instead. Maybe your own pain, or if you're more fortunate you will develop empathy for others.
In the meantime, some people say that reading Ayn Rand helps -- after the initial rush of affirmation, you grow to realize that she's just another writer of superhero comics. As that slowly percolates into your awareness, you start to understand humans and society are really quite complicated things, which can help you become a more tolerant person.
I wish there were words to convince you of how profoundly incorrect you are about this.
Unfortunately, it will probably require years and pain instead. Maybe your own pain, or if you're more fortunate you will develop empathy for others.
In the meantime, some people say that reading Ayn Rand helps -- after the initial rush of affirmation, you grow to realize that she's just another writer of superhero comics. As that slowly percolates into your awareness, you start to understand humans and society are really quite complicated things, which can help you become a more tolerant person.
Thanks for reminding me of Ayn Rand, lot of what I understand comes from philosophers I carelessly brushed over. I have to take some time to really dig into their work.
Just don’t work bro! Problem solved!
> The calendar belongs to everyone else. Their schedule isn’t your schedule unless it helps you get where you’re going.
Therefore, wage labor should be abolished.
“Communism is free time and nothing else!” - jehu (https://therealmovement.wordpress.com/)
Therefore, wage labor should be abolished.
“Communism is free time and nothing else!” - jehu (https://therealmovement.wordpress.com/)
Alright - get rid of wage labor and be an "entrepreneur". You'll work harder than you ever have, for much less than you've ever made, for your new found freedom.
like a koan.
not the worst way to enter the new year.
not the worst way to enter the new year.
Seth Godin is one of those "thought leaders" who has no real life experience besides selling "thoughts". He has the world of time selling his books and has been wrong on most of his predictions.
Actually, back in the day, Seth Godin was an early -- and successful -- Internet entrepreneur:
https://www.wired.com/1998/10/yahoo-acquiring-yoyodyne/
https://www.wired.com/1998/10/yahoo-acquiring-yoyodyne/
> GetRichClick.com, a traffic distribution site transforming traffic into targeted, unduplicated visitors to sponsoring sites
"Getrichclick" is not the sort of resume I want to see from someone offering advice.
"Getrichclick" is not the sort of resume I want to see from someone offering advice.
[deleted]
Or you just need to work because otherwise you will starve and/or become homeless.
A lot of the responses which suggest everyone needs "endless schedule free time as a right" miss this point - either they, or someone else, is supporting their need to eat, sleep, and provide.
One of the replies suggested that everybody should "take a Sabbatical, pack your things and travel the world" haha
Ah, so this is what privilege and luxury of time looks like. Thanks Seth - I'm sure the 99% will heed your wisdom to go surfing.
Could you please stop creating accounts to break the site guidelines with?
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Reframe this critique:
This should be the point of civilization and society. We should be working to free everyone to be able to go surfing when able.
I dislike that some people get to be "privileged" enough to be able to do so as much as the next guy, but I also dislike when people act like it's wrong to aspire to this.
The problem isn't that this is bad advice; the problem is that our civilization currently prevents this for most people, and instead aims to convince the 99% that they are the essential workers who can't go surfing.
This should be the point of civilization and society. We should be working to free everyone to be able to go surfing when able.
I dislike that some people get to be "privileged" enough to be able to do so as much as the next guy, but I also dislike when people act like it's wrong to aspire to this.
The problem isn't that this is bad advice; the problem is that our civilization currently prevents this for most people, and instead aims to convince the 99% that they are the essential workers who can't go surfing.
The point of society shouldn't be that everyone is so hedonistic the highlight in their day is surfing. If you're a mother or a father, if you have a church to go to, if you have relatives, if you're part of a political organization or a community you can't just make your own schedule.
This isn't bad, it means that you're an adult. If everyone lived this Peter Pan lifestyle we wouldn't have anything you'd call a civilization, we'd just have a bunch of grown up kids.
A community consists of interdependent people, it's not just a room full of individuals. Defining freedom in opposition to responsibility is an adolescents idea of freedom. That's a valid perspective in youth, not when it's time to be a person others can rely on.
This isn't bad, it means that you're an adult. If everyone lived this Peter Pan lifestyle we wouldn't have anything you'd call a civilization, we'd just have a bunch of grown up kids.
A community consists of interdependent people, it's not just a room full of individuals. Defining freedom in opposition to responsibility is an adolescents idea of freedom. That's a valid perspective in youth, not when it's time to be a person others can rely on.
We currently have more grown up kids than we do adults. Between the internet, porn, video games, and dude weed lmao, the typical adult is placated and ignorant of their surrounding, existence, potential, and future.
It’s a lot easier to sit there and watch the Colbert Report deliver a sick burn than it is to care and work towards change. Online karma points are the equivalent of gambling reward spikes. It’s all gamified bullshit.
It’s a lot easier to sit there and watch the Colbert Report deliver a sick burn than it is to care and work towards change. Online karma points are the equivalent of gambling reward spikes. It’s all gamified bullshit.
You can go surfing - there are people who live this lifestyle. They move to a beach town, get a beach job, and surf. Similar is the ski bum.
Lo and behold, most people do not want to make the sacrifices necessary to have this life.
Being a grown-up is about making these choices.
Lo and behold, most people do not want to make the sacrifices necessary to have this life.
Being a grown-up is about making these choices.
Bad advice is driving instructions that say turn left, turn right, climb vertically 2,000 feet. You apparently write 20 "best sellers" by selling driving manuals for flying cars to people who think your book can suddenly make their honda civic fly.
> The problem isn't that this is bad advice; the problem is that our civilization currently prevents this for most people, and instead aims to convince the 99% that they are the essential workers who can't go surfing.
I guess I’ve never formalized my thinking about this, but I believe it’s a sad outlook on humanity if the goal is to partake in pleasure at will. There seem to be much more fulfilling pursuits. Maybe I’m taking this the wrong way.
I guess I’ve never formalized my thinking about this, but I believe it’s a sad outlook on humanity if the goal is to partake in pleasure at will. There seem to be much more fulfilling pursuits. Maybe I’m taking this the wrong way.
What you choose to be a fulfilling pursuit is what you should get to do.
For some, that's surfing. For others, that's building a rocket to Mars.
My point is that ideally we build a society where as many people as possible get to choose what they find fulfilling, and pursue it as much as they wish.
The problem we have right now is that opportunity, training, and investment for many things are restricted to the very few.
I agree that an exclusively hedonistic outlook on life is empty, but so too is letting the very few enslave the others to their dreams.
For some, that's surfing. For others, that's building a rocket to Mars.
My point is that ideally we build a society where as many people as possible get to choose what they find fulfilling, and pursue it as much as they wish.
The problem we have right now is that opportunity, training, and investment for many things are restricted to the very few.
I agree that an exclusively hedonistic outlook on life is empty, but so too is letting the very few enslave the others to their dreams.
> My point is that ideally we build a society where as many people as possible get to choose what they find fulfilling, and pursue it as much as they wish.
But then what of the work that nobody wishes to pursue, but is required? Like farming for food, generating electricity and water, and many of the modern comforts?
I'm sure everybody wishes to pursue their own passion, regardless of the value of that passion to _someone else_. But this is why it cannot be done today, because there isn't enough wealth and energy and resources to allow for this. The star trek style replicators don't yet exist.
But then what of the work that nobody wishes to pursue, but is required? Like farming for food, generating electricity and water, and many of the modern comforts?
I'm sure everybody wishes to pursue their own passion, regardless of the value of that passion to _someone else_. But this is why it cannot be done today, because there isn't enough wealth and energy and resources to allow for this. The star trek style replicators don't yet exist.
Automate that work as much as possible and richly reward those who pursue it.
One of the oddities of modern work is that the lowest paid jobs are mostly those nobody wants to do.
Sure, we're not at replicator level, but farming of many crops require far fewer people than many imagine.
Personally I find that many things that could be automated are not yet automated because humans are cheaper. Think cashier, waiter/waitress, and so on.
In white collar work land, an amazing number of jobs could be automated, but are not yet because it's cheaper to use humans. These are the people who essentially just move numbers from one computer to another with a small amount of work in between.
One of the oddities of modern work is that the lowest paid jobs are mostly those nobody wants to do.
Sure, we're not at replicator level, but farming of many crops require far fewer people than many imagine.
Personally I find that many things that could be automated are not yet automated because humans are cheaper. Think cashier, waiter/waitress, and so on.
In white collar work land, an amazing number of jobs could be automated, but are not yet because it's cheaper to use humans. These are the people who essentially just move numbers from one computer to another with a small amount of work in between.
The underlying assumption of people who make automation arguments are that those whose job got automated out of existence will somehow be able to consume the profits of those automation (and thus enjoy life, rather than to work).
This is wrong, because the automation costed capital, and the capital owners who invested in the automation are the ones capturing the benefits (mostly).
Horses whose job got automated out of existence by cars don't get to retire lavishly - they got turned into glue. And so will the people, if such an event were to happen.
This is wrong, because the automation costed capital, and the capital owners who invested in the automation are the ones capturing the benefits (mostly).
Horses whose job got automated out of existence by cars don't get to retire lavishly - they got turned into glue. And so will the people, if such an event were to happen.
I guess more broadly the goal should be to free people to be able to spend at least a reasonable portion of their time doing whatever brings them enjoyment. That could either be 'pleasure' or whatever you consider 'much more fulfilling pursuits'.
I have to agree with you from my angle... I read this and immediately though to myself, what kind of financial position must I be in to wake up and decide "I feel like doing "x", I will go do "x" today?". I will admit to you, it is a financial decision that to a person of my means is a total pipe dream. I consider myself middle class, I have advanced degrees and work in a scientific field. There is no way, none whatsoever, that I could wake up tomorrow and decide to "go do what I feel like". Nope, I would have to take time off, which would garner lost wages, which would be impossible.
"I consider myself middle class, I have advanced degrees and work in a scientific field"
Maybe what we understand as middle class is actually just a well-fed pleb.
Real middle class probably should have control of their day at least, so we have almost no middle class.
Maybe what we understand as middle class is actually just a well-fed pleb.
Real middle class probably should have control of their day at least, so we have almost no middle class.
> Maybe what we understand as middle class is actually just a well-fed pleb.
I think that has always been the case - the middle class is what civilization rests on for productivity and creation of goods and services. They are the most exploited bunch, but some smart ones have managed to save and invest enough to escape that middle class, and into the financially independent class (which may be previously called the landed gentry).
I think that has always been the case - the middle class is what civilization rests on for productivity and creation of goods and services. They are the most exploited bunch, but some smart ones have managed to save and invest enough to escape that middle class, and into the financially independent class (which may be previously called the landed gentry).
You could do worse than take the advice of an old man encouraging you to enjoy your fitness while you still have it.
With very rare exceptions, everyone has free time (and weekends count), but many of us (myself included) waste it away.
(e.g., like I'm doing here)
With very rare exceptions, everyone has free time (and weekends count), but many of us (myself included) waste it away.
(e.g., like I'm doing here)
He must mean "surfing" hacker news.
I read it as more of a "note to self..."
It's a privilege and luxury to have this kind of flexibility? Yes, and that's a good thing!
If anything, we should aim to betterment for our lives, and I bet nowadays many people browsing this website have this. In the future, even more people will be able to! :)
If anything, we should aim to betterment for our lives, and I bet nowadays many people browsing this website have this. In the future, even more people will be able to! :)
surfing is just an example, nothing stopping you from doing pushups in your office.
Take that vacation to Bali when you're young, and you are wasting your prime, strongest days that could be making you financially secure and/or independent. Go windsurfing for a year in Ibiza after college, and you're adding 5 years to your working life--retiring at 62 instead of 57. It didn't sound like much time when I was young, but today, as I turn elderly, I'm counting down the years until I can finally retire, and kicking myself for goofing around when I was younger. If I could do it all again, I'd have tried harder to get into big tech early, I'd have taken comp and 401(k)s and advancement more seriously. I'd have played fewer video games, traveled less, and relaxed on the beach less.
Life isn't short--it's LONG, and you have a brief moment in that life to maximize your preparation for the rest of it. Use it wisely.