Opinions on Not Having a Degree
9 comments
I recently read a story about a very senior engineer (in his 50s) who was denied a working VISA in some European country for not finishing a degree. As inane as it sounds, completing any sort of 4 year degree signals to employers that you are likely not dumb and/or undisciplined (not necessarily the converse). Paraphrasing Steven Pink: college is an inefficient 4 year long IQ and marshmallow test
I'm on the same boat as you, I have 12 yrs exp, operated as head of engineering but I'm tired of ticking "Some college" on applications and having that "uncomfortable" conversation. I want to have the option to go to graduate school or change careers down the line and those paths require at least a bachelor's degree. So I've enrolled in a degree-completion program in a non-CS (but stimulating) field that interests me.
I have finished my core courses and I'm muscling through "uninteresting requirements" like foreign language, gen-ed, etc...
Curious, what do you dislike about formal learning environments?
I'm on the same boat as you, I have 12 yrs exp, operated as head of engineering but I'm tired of ticking "Some college" on applications and having that "uncomfortable" conversation. I want to have the option to go to graduate school or change careers down the line and those paths require at least a bachelor's degree. So I've enrolled in a degree-completion program in a non-CS (but stimulating) field that interests me.
I have finished my core courses and I'm muscling through "uninteresting requirements" like foreign language, gen-ed, etc...
Curious, what do you dislike about formal learning environments?
I agree with you. A degree is, by it's nature, a broad brush of the particular discipline your degree is in. An intelligent and analytical auto-didact can hyper specialise in a particular discipline and within that discipline can easily master it. New hires who are broad brushed are just showing they have the basic broad abilities of that discipline, and are hired as such and their new bosses then set about finding their true abilities. Grads with auto-didact ability do well(assuming they are also intelligent). The people who fail are those whom I call 'documented men' - not particularly smart or auto-didactic, but smart enough to work hard and apply themselves to various tasks - often they end up in administering the more creative people due to their degree and overview of the field.
Businesses need both types and usually have enough versatility to use them. There is usually a trial period where people are assessed by their bosses as to their future in their company. Often they will find good careers away from the cutting edge and have good lives.
Your problem will be in amassing a body of work that speaks to your abilities when you get your first/second/? job - one hopes you deal with people who can properly assess your potential in that business - not just an HR drone who might incorrectly assess you as an undocumented man and pass on you. The current online hiring vogue tends to eliminate people like you on documentary grounds - your task is to reach the people who know and understand your body of work properly and recommend a hire. Once hired your abilities will work for you.
As for now, amass a degree of documentation via various coursework in your area that you can probably fly through with various online courses(often free, but demonstrate a skill in the area).
One problem you will lack is the campus milieu where people make connections, keep them after graduation, and which often grant you the ability to bypass HR drones etc. and make a higher level connection who is aware of your abilities and you get a higher level interview where you will meet people, much like you, who will be able to assess you on your value.
You are paid for getting stuff done. If you have a track record of delivering result and experience with current tech, you are good. Degree is important for first two jobs, afterwards nobody really asks.
Nobody is asking about my EE degree and lack of proper CS degree (I only have 1-year MSc in IT). There are more ways to improve your future prospects:
Nobody is asking about my EE degree and lack of proper CS degree (I only have 1-year MSc in IT). There are more ways to improve your future prospects:
- Cultivating Linkedin profile with recommendations and good network
- Contributing to well known open source projects
- Speaking on tech conferences, writing blog or having presence on social media
- Selecting impactful projects and companies and building the right narrative
- Building skills in another business domain: medical, stats etcA degree costs money, time, and lost opportunity. On top of that the cost of a degree is inflated due to student loans with no bankruptcy option. All to unlock doors you unlocked 6 years ago. A list of notable projects you worked on professionally is more valuable than a degree.
Even in a future unfavorable job market, over-saturated with workers, the profit motive doesn't change. Proven ability is more valuable than paper credentials. Especially in a job requiring innovation, where you can't simply do things by rote.
Even in a future unfavorable job market, over-saturated with workers, the profit motive doesn't change. Proven ability is more valuable than paper credentials. Especially in a job requiring innovation, where you can't simply do things by rote.
IMO I’ve seen too many CS programs and CS grads that just seem poor quality and I think it’d probably a poor proxy for ability.
If you’re already established in the industry I don’t think the lack of a degree is a huge problem. I’ve heard of companies not letting people advance into middle management and such without a degree, but I can’t imagine you’d want to work for such a place anyway.
If you’re already established in the industry I don’t think the lack of a degree is a huge problem. I’ve heard of companies not letting people advance into middle management and such without a degree, but I can’t imagine you’d want to work for such a place anyway.
Ultimately employers are likely to place greater value on your acquired experience and ability to `get the job done'. Ensuring your knowledge remains currently viable might help ensure your future. HN can help in that regard.
I think it’s very unlikely that you will not find a job considering your experience. Some great companies require a degree but you will always find other great companies in my opinion.
You’re 6 years in. You’re set, by the next time you’re hiring, any company you want to work for won’t even notice that you don’t include a school on your resume.
I say this as a fellow engineer without a college degree.
I say this as a fellow engineer without a college degree.
I feel like it isn't a problem now, question is if it's likely to ever become an issue later on (e.g. a sudden shift in the market to not recruit without a degree that would effect even experienced developers). I may just be paranoid in thinking about this.
I've been a software engineer for around 6 years now and am a tech lead. I sometimes have anxiety about not having a degree, worrying that the day may come where I will get stuck in terms of advancement or changes in the market will not allow me to get the jobs I want.
I'm an autodidact and dislike formal learning environments, and also don't want to put my life on hold to go do a degree, but sometimes I feel a bit like Mike Ross in Suits and become worried that my future isn't stable.
What are your opinions on this?