Singapore prime minister Lee Hsien Loong’s Sudoku solver (2018)(leetcode.com)
leetcode.com
Singapore prime minister Lee Hsien Loong’s Sudoku solver (2018)
https://leetcode.com/problems/sudoku-solver/discuss/15796/Singapore-prime-minister-Lee-Hsien-Loong%27s-Sudoku-Solver-code-runs-in-1ms
389 comments
Bulgaria's minister of e-governance:
https://techblog.bozho.net/i-have-been-appointed-as-e-govern...
is a top Stack Overflow contributor:
https://stackoverflow.com/users/203907/bozho
as well as a moderately active HN user:
https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=bozho
https://techblog.bozho.net/i-have-been-appointed-as-e-govern...
is a top Stack Overflow contributor:
https://stackoverflow.com/users/203907/bozho
as well as a moderately active HN user:
https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=bozho
Holy crap! This is amazing. I have lost count how many times I have read amazing, thoughtful answers authored by him on StackOverflow.com! I think he has even answered some of my own questions... I wish him good luck!
This is great! Previous HN discussion on him becoming a minister: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29540771
Your comment led me to this gem from antman:
Lets remember his answer on stackexchange regarding how many Greeks pay high taxes vs Greek owners of Porshe Cayennes, when he not recognized and was asked for references for his figures: "Hi, can you provider references for your figures? - Skiiv The figures come directly from SQL queries I executed on the General Secreteriat for Information Systems database.... – Diomidis Spinellis" https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/a/6883
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29550277
Lets remember his answer on stackexchange regarding how many Greeks pay high taxes vs Greek owners of Porshe Cayennes, when he not recognized and was asked for references for his figures: "Hi, can you provider references for your figures? - Skiiv The figures come directly from SQL queries I executed on the General Secreteriat for Information Systems database.... – Diomidis Spinellis" https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/a/6883
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29550277
That is Diomidis Spinellis, a Greek politician, not the Bulgarian minister.
Leonid Volkov, a Russian oppositionist and the chief of staff of Alexei Navalny's 2018 campaign. The Russian government wants to arrest him for being a key member of the Anti-Corruption Foundation, which it brands as "extremist" (he fled to Lithuania, along with others).
He got an ICPC bronze medal in 2001, and before getting into politics, he was at an IT company for about 10 years, working his way up from a software engineer to the CEO. The company now has 9k employees and $200M revenue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Volkov_(politician) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Corruption_Foundation
He got an ICPC bronze medal in 2001, and before getting into politics, he was at an IT company for about 10 years, working his way up from a software engineer to the CEO. The company now has 9k employees and $200M revenue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Volkov_(politician) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Corruption_Foundation
rabite(3)
Angela Merkel's dissertation lists five programs she wrote for various physical chemistry calculations. Two ran on an HP 9810A, two on the east German Robotron EC1055 mainframe, and one on the Soviet BESM6 mainframe. Maybe the listings are still on a shelf somewhere.
Hat tip on this post! I found her PhD thesis online here: https://vdocuments.net/reader/full/angela-merkel-doktorarbei...
Scroll down to page 150: "Anhang A1: Das Programm FPROJ". Google translate tells me that "Anhang" means "Appendix" in German. I will not soon forget the term "das programm".
I must admit: You nerd sniped me good on this one!
Scroll down to page 150: "Anhang A1: Das Programm FPROJ". Google translate tells me that "Anhang" means "Appendix" in German. I will not soon forget the term "das programm".
I must admit: You nerd sniped me good on this one!
Audrey Tang is a minister in the Taiwanese government:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Tang
https://metacpan.org/author/AUDREYT
(And of course she is the initiator of the PUGS Perl 6 implementation project)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Tang
https://metacpan.org/author/AUDREYT
(And of course she is the initiator of the PUGS Perl 6 implementation project)
I recommend to listen to her interview by Tatsuhiko Miyagawa on his Rebuild.fm podcast: "Monads Are Not Required For My Job" (June 2020)
https://rebuild.fm/271/
https://rebuild.fm/271/
Her article on 500 lines or less is a great read.
Former US Senate and Presidential hopeful and anti-vax poster child Herman Cain had a bachelors in mathematics, a masters in computer science and wrote ballistics software for the US Navy. Although he never actually succeeded in holding elected office, so I don't know if he really counts.
Adding on in this vein: I'm curious if the late Presidential hopeful Ross Perot wrote any noteworthy software, or if his role in tech was only that of a salesman. He's another case of not winning the races for elected office, but 18.9% of the popular vote in 1992 and a fortune of approximately $4 billion in 2019 is nothing to sneeze at.
He was an IBM salesman after the Navy and prior to founding EDS, it's very unlikely he ever wrote any software. I've read a fair bit about him over my lifetime and have never run across a mention of him being technically inclined, an engineer, writing software, etc.
He understood how the IT services industry worked - from his time on the inside of it at IBM - and saw an opportunity. He likely had a good salesman's grasp of the structure of the industry technologically (what was selling, what wasn't; who dominated what segments; what companies were spending on various segments). He got started from spotting a market inefficiency that IBM wasn't interested in pursuing (leasing unused compute time), so Perot formed EDS and the rest is history.
He understood how the IT services industry worked - from his time on the inside of it at IBM - and saw an opportunity. He likely had a good salesman's grasp of the structure of the industry technologically (what was selling, what wasn't; who dominated what segments; what companies were spending on various segments). He got started from spotting a market inefficiency that IBM wasn't interested in pursuing (leasing unused compute time), so Perot formed EDS and the rest is history.
Wordtris ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wordtris ) was developed by Armen Sarkissian - the current president of Armenia
Former president, actually. He resigned about a week ago unexpectedly.
Following a scandal revealing he's secretly a citizen of St. Kitts & Nevis. Can't make this up...
I vote Josh Wardle for US President!
He’s British, so that’d require some dramatic geopolitical developments!
Yet the current British prime minister was born in the US, we need some reciprocity here.
America being a former colony illegalized this possibility 230 years ago. The British being the the former global superpower lack such laws and they will thus eventually be ruled by a foreigner with an Oxbridge education.
holy crap I played that game two decades ago.
This is actually quite cool, I figured someone bugged him about a github or something and I scrolled down to see.... twitter has to be dangerously close to 100% comprised of political propaganda bots repeating the talking point of the week and calling one another bots these days.
Beto O’Rourke, former U.S. Congressman, was a member of the Cult of the Dead Cow [1].
[1] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-poli...
[1] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-poli...
John Poindexter (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Poindexter>), Reagan's National Security Advisor:
* First in his Naval Academy class
* PhD from Caltech
* Reached flag rank
After leaving office because of the Iran-Contra scandal (during which Poindexter reportedly set up a secret communications channel on the IBM PROFS system the NSC used), Poindexter became a software developer!
* First in his Naval Academy class
* PhD from Caltech
* Reached flag rank
After leaving office because of the Iran-Contra scandal (during which Poindexter reportedly set up a secret communications channel on the IBM PROFS system the NSC used), Poindexter became a software developer!
[deleted]
Our prime minister is really active on Facebook, does that count?
Ah this reminds COBOLUnit[1]. I'm still not sure if it's a joke or not.
[1]: https://sites.google.com/site/cobolunit/home
[1]: https://sites.google.com/site/cobolunit/home
Why would it be a joke?
I did a double take when I read your comment, but the more I think about it: You are right. Assuming this is not a joke, it is probably a good idea! There must be lots of legacy software from 60s/70s/80s that runs on mainframes for gov't/military/banks/insurance. It won't be replaced, but it would great to add tests when making changes to code.
Edit: Great HN username!
Edit: Great HN username!
>There must be lots of legacy software from 60s/70s/80s that runs on mainframes for gov't/military/banks/insurance. It won't be replaced, but it would great to add tests when making changes to code.
Vernor Vinge's A Deepness in the Sky describes in some detail the job position of programmer archaeologist (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_archaeology>). Set thousands of years in the future, such archaeologists search archives going back to the early days of Unix for useful code.
Vernor Vinge's A Deepness in the Sky describes in some detail the job position of programmer archaeologist (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_archaeology>). Set thousands of years in the future, such archaeologists search archives going back to the early days of Unix for useful code.
Look at the logo. Looks like a play on Cobol being "ancient" technology and unit testing being something "hipster".
I read it more like self-aware, tongue-in-cheek humor.
If only Bill Gates would run for office. What a code legacy he would have...
That's really cool, but COBOL on wheelchair sounds kinda offensive, seems risky for a politician.
1. His political party is on the fringes of the left, advocating for very high taxation (reaching 55% at income >= $63k/yr, 75% at >= $125k) - this combined with the general Polish lack of trust towards politicians (and our ~20-ish% total income tax loopholes) practically guarantees that they won't ever get any real power.
2. Current government openly admitted to spying on the opposition and introduced an anti-abortion law that already killed a couple women, as hospitals decide to play it safe and wait until the fetus dies. And they dismantled the separation of powers. And probably already stole hundreds of millions of dollars, with independent investigations confirming at least tens. Our politics are so messed up that absolutely no one will bat an eye at a 7 years old non-PC joke.
2. Current government openly admitted to spying on the opposition and introduced an anti-abortion law that already killed a couple women, as hospitals decide to play it safe and wait until the fetus dies. And they dismantled the separation of powers. And probably already stole hundreds of millions of dollars, with independent investigations confirming at least tens. Our politics are so messed up that absolutely no one will bat an eye at a 7 years old non-PC joke.
Read question: I am baffled by the democracy situation in Poland. How can the situation be explained to outsiders?
When I was a child in the United States, Lech Wałęsa regularly celebrated as a hero by helping to lead Poland into democracy as head of the trade union Solidarity/Solidarność. I always felt he was "Une Hacker Originale" by forming a worker's union in a (nominally) Communist state! It was like they back-doored a democratic institution into a unfree state. Amazing stuff to read about.
When I was a child in the United States, Lech Wałęsa regularly celebrated as a hero by helping to lead Poland into democracy as head of the trade union Solidarity/Solidarność. I always felt he was "Une Hacker Originale" by forming a worker's union in a (nominally) Communist state! It was like they back-doored a democratic institution into a unfree state. Amazing stuff to read about.
If you have an absolute majority (which PiS was the first to achieve in 2015 and 2019), you can do anything. And if people protest, you can just wait them out - since 1991, only trade unions can announce paid strikes, their membership is dwindling and the largest one (Solidarity) became a puppet of the Law and Justice party.
> was "Une Hacker Originale" by forming a worker's union in a (nominally) Communist state
nah he was just a puppet/poster boy for a good story. The real reason why communism fail in Poland were:
- coup d'etat by deep state. General Kiszczak did an excellent job. System has changed without a bloody revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czes%C5%82aw_Kiszczak - communism was inefficient. Trading barier made it worse. As a result Soviet Union was weak and didn't have enough influence to keep the system stable. - Kissinger managed to convince China to counter Soviet Union. In 1969 they had to throw and enormous resources at the border.
nah he was just a puppet/poster boy for a good story. The real reason why communism fail in Poland were:
- coup d'etat by deep state. General Kiszczak did an excellent job. System has changed without a bloody revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czes%C5%82aw_Kiszczak - communism was inefficient. Trading barier made it worse. As a result Soviet Union was weak and didn't have enough influence to keep the system stable. - Kissinger managed to convince China to counter Soviet Union. In 1969 they had to throw and enormous resources at the border.
I think it's meant to be a quip about Ruby on Rails.
It is clearly such a quip, fortunately the joke has been done better, albeit not by a politician:
http://www.coboloncogs.org/INDEX.HTM
I don't happen to think the "wheelchair" is offensive here, you can tell yourself it's ageist and ableist if you need to, but the punchline is clearly at COBOL's expense.
http://www.coboloncogs.org/INDEX.HTM
I don't happen to think the "wheelchair" is offensive here, you can tell yourself it's ageist and ableist if you need to, but the punchline is clearly at COBOL's expense.
Feels relevant https://youtu.be/IT2UH74ksJ4
India's Prime Minister PV Narasimha Rao writing computer programs in 1990s
https://princeezraj.medium.com/the-indian-prime-minister-who...
https://princeezraj.medium.com/the-indian-prime-minister-who...
Narasimha Rao is brilliant in other aspects as well. He spoke 17 languages. Apart from 8 indian languages, he can speak fluently English, French, Arabic, Spanish, German and Persian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._V._Narasimha_Rao
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._V._Narasimha_Rao
Are there any videos of him speaking German or French? Two ex-presidents of two different small European countries had ~5 languages listed in wikipedia, yet in reality they were speaking native + some euro-english only. Now I'm very skeptical about multilingual politicians.
PM Narasimha Rao would speak in the local language of the states he visited during his tenure in politics. After his premiership, wrote a fiction novel indirectly sharing his experience in politics. His skill in language translation helped in climbing the political ladder because so few national politicians could speak more than their regional language.
It's quite amazing that he learned COBOL and BASIC and wrote UNIX programs during his career in politics. He's credited with liberalizing industrial policies that helped Software/IT services industry dramatically grow in the following decade after his tenure.
His secretary BN Yugandhar is the father of Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella.
https://twitter.com/spignal/status/749534530856517632
It's quite amazing that he learned COBOL and BASIC and wrote UNIX programs during his career in politics. He's credited with liberalizing industrial policies that helped Software/IT services industry dramatically grow in the following decade after his tenure.
His secretary BN Yugandhar is the father of Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella.
https://twitter.com/spignal/status/749534530856517632
It's crazy to me how you can keep those all straight. I quickly lost a lot of ability in a second language after not speaking it for a relatively short period of time.
[deleted]
A current minister in the Government of India was "a member of the architecture teams that invented the 486 chip and later, Intel’s signature Pentium chip" - https://magazine.iit.edu/fall-2012/ahead-curve
Released under MIT no less (https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B2G2LjIu7Wbdfjha...). Great to see more government (employees) using open source licenses :)
Edit: apparently, you can't directly link to the files inside the Drive, as the URL doesn't change when you open it in their file browser. What's the point even?
Edit: apparently, you can't directly link to the files inside the Drive, as the URL doesn't change when you open it in their file browser. What's the point even?
You can. Right click and get link.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2G2LjIu7WbdNkZ5aW96ODNxNms...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2G2LjIu7WbdNkZ5aW96ODNxNms...
Ah, great, thanks for that. One would expect URLs to be able to be used for locating resources uniquely on the web, but maybe that expectation is too much today.
Edit: That link you put misses the context of the directory you're in (unless I'm missing something else unintuitive again), for some reason. Seems the UX of Drive is essentially broken for files living inside directories.
Edit: That link you put misses the context of the directory you're in (unless I'm missing something else unintuitive again), for some reason. Seems the UX of Drive is essentially broken for files living inside directories.
I don't know for sure, but the "missing context" part might be intentional, at least this behavior matches what I want.
This way, you can share multiple files in a same folder to different people and they won't see other files.
OneDrive works similarly.
This way, you can share multiple files in a same folder to different people and they won't see other files.
OneDrive works similarly.
Makes sense and doesn't. Ideally, you can navigate to the file from a directory and copy the link that is in the address bar, and share a direct link to the file with the context of the directory. And if needed, right-click to share like you did to share that file and that file only, like what it does now.
Yeah that's true.
TBF, having the address bar to dynamically reflect whatever the user currently is seeing on screen is really a relatively "new" idea, so I typically don't expect that. It would be great if they have it, of course.
TBF, having the address bar to dynamically reflect whatever the user currently is seeing on screen is really a relatively "new" idea, so I typically don't expect that. It would be great if they have it, of course.
> TBF, having the address bar to dynamically reflect whatever the user currently is seeing on screen is really a relatively "new" idea, so I typically don't expect that. It would be great if they have it, of course.
"Relatively" and "new" being very... Relative in this case :) I remember writing client-side web applications (SPAs before they were called SPAs) in 2008/2009 where we did this because tying loading resources based on the URL (compared to the opposite of loading a resource then manipulating the URL) was so obvious, wouldn't surprise me if the practice was older than that as well.
In terms of how fast the web moves forward, I'd say it's not very "new", but in terms of anything else, yeah I guess it is relatively new :)
"Relatively" and "new" being very... Relative in this case :) I remember writing client-side web applications (SPAs before they were called SPAs) in 2008/2009 where we did this because tying loading resources based on the URL (compared to the opposite of loading a resource then manipulating the URL) was so obvious, wouldn't surprise me if the practice was older than that as well.
In terms of how fast the web moves forward, I'd say it's not very "new", but in terms of anything else, yeah I guess it is relatively new :)
I get what you mean. My point is less about "the technology isn't there" but that dev would not bother unless it's very needed.
People went to a lot of trouble to make this feature of resource location work in the 1990s, but my front end work ended with jQuery so perhaps the idea was lost and now is again being found?
The former Indian Prime Minister Narasina Rao used to code as well. https://princeezraj.medium.com/the-indian-prime-minister-who...
I almost had a heart attack when I read this. I've been using bitwise operations to speed up the Wave Function Collapse algorithm... and the prime minister of Singapore has done something very similar years before!
It's a very common technique when seeking performance, so don't have a heart attack please.
When I read posts like this I'm reminded I actually studied computer engineering, not computer science ;)
I don't understand all of the code but this bit
> int valbit = Possibles & (-Possibles); // Lowest 1 bit in Possibles
It's a standard trick, e.g. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12247186/find-the-lowest....
If you like that you may also like https://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html
(Also "Hackers Delight" if you really can't get enough of it.)
(Also "Hackers Delight" if you really can't get enough of it.)
I think there’s an Intel intrinsic for this, but nonetheless neat.
It's the kind of thing that I would expect a compiler to know about and use; when writing code in a high level language you shouldn't have to think too much about what happens on the hardware level.
It's done in Java, Integer.lowestOneBit(int), citing HD 2-1. Java defines ints to be 2-complimentary. I can't recall if it's compiled tzcnt[0], though
[0]: https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/tzcnt
[0]: https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/tzcnt
Wrt any politician coding, I am reminded of the old proverb "The marvel is not that the bear dances well, but that the bear dances at all."
He was the top math student in his year at Cambridge, also Lee Kuan Yew's son.
That's so last year! Where's his Wordle solver?
As I recall, he did mathematics first and performed very well at it but, despite the efforts of the academics who knew him to convince him to become a mathematician, he had to go to get a practical qualification (something in computer science I guess) and then return to Singapore to be prime minister. But that story does come from the maths department so is likely exaggerated a little.
That's awesome. Really impressive. Is he a good PM?
My country's current PM is a school teacher but unfortunately doesn't seem to bring any of the good traits associated with that to the country. The last PM (and who will be PM again soon) was a doctor. Unfortunately he was is just a media/attention addict who won't tackle any big issues like housing costs or homelessness.
My country's current PM is a school teacher but unfortunately doesn't seem to bring any of the good traits associated with that to the country. The last PM (and who will be PM again soon) was a doctor. Unfortunately he was is just a media/attention addict who won't tackle any big issues like housing costs or homelessness.
> Is he a good PM?
Singaporean here. Not if we take the recent performance of our COVID task force into account — it's run by a bunch of bumbling ministerial clowns (one who might potentially become the next prime minister) that can't seem to agree which direction to take Singapore, end up toeing the middle line between endemic and COVID zero, and wrecking everything including the mental health of most Singaporeans staying in their small public flats.
Lee Hsien Loong's main involvement during the pandemic/endemic (Singapore still can't decide how to treat COVID) seemed to be encouraging people, especially the elderly, to get vaccinated.
Singaporean here. Not if we take the recent performance of our COVID task force into account — it's run by a bunch of bumbling ministerial clowns (one who might potentially become the next prime minister) that can't seem to agree which direction to take Singapore, end up toeing the middle line between endemic and COVID zero, and wrecking everything including the mental health of most Singaporeans staying in their small public flats.
Lee Hsien Loong's main involvement during the pandemic/endemic (Singapore still can't decide how to treat COVID) seemed to be encouraging people, especially the elderly, to get vaccinated.
i mean, have some sympathy, easy to criticize from the cheap seats. (and yes, they are paid a lot, so what, decisionmaking under uncertainty is still hard)
in retrospect, LHL distancing himself from covid policy is pretty brilliant/convenient, as whoever proves a credible leader through this mess will have demonstrated the qualities we'd probably want for PM
in retrospect, LHL distancing himself from covid policy is pretty brilliant/convenient, as whoever proves a credible leader through this mess will have demonstrated the qualities we'd probably want for PM
Sympathy for _what/who_?
They implemented a unnecessary, ineffective lockdown for two months and a mandatory nationwide tracking system (which differs wildly from the open sourced version they published) without any published efficacy data, went back on their word regarding data collected (without any zero consequences) and will now be using that data for future “policing”.
They implemented a unnecessary, ineffective lockdown for two months and a mandatory nationwide tracking system (which differs wildly from the open sourced version they published) without any published efficacy data, went back on their word regarding data collected (without any zero consequences) and will now be using that data for future “policing”.
Do you really think he's not involved? I can't imagine the task force does anything without his and other senior members of cabinet's approval, ie, anything they don't want doesn't happen.
I think it would depend on what is your definition of “good”.
If it is simply measured economical terms then he seems fine.
However if you care about things such as freedom of expression or political rights, I don’t think Singapore has made any progress in those regards. The government is very conservative, as is the population due to generations of social engineering (conscription, mandatory “social studies”) plus the tremendous control it has over the whole country.
he's pretty decent. i can't think of anything particularly impressive about domestic policy (there's not much to improve on anyways in that aspect. shit runs pretty well here.) but he was pretty forward looking in seeing that the govt needed to actively support tech to build up a tech sector here. his son actually leads one of the government tech innovation units here (Open Government Products) and their work is pretty dope and useful.
i respect him more for how he conducts foreign policy. professional, eloquent and incisive, IMO he really brings the best side of our country to the international table.
i respect him more for how he conducts foreign policy. professional, eloquent and incisive, IMO he really brings the best side of our country to the international table.
His other son Li Haoyi is a prominent member of the Scala community (wrote the Ammonite scripting language and the book Hands-on Scala Programming).
https://www.lihaoyi.com/Resume/
https://www.lihaoyi.com/Resume/
Why is 1ms impressive? How much time does a simple solver take?
For a casual effort this solver is quite fast. On most datasets it's significantly faster than a C++ port of the Norvig solver and it's often in the same league as well-tuned DLX solvers (though still not in the major league).
Relative to DLX it's faster on the easiest puzzles and slower on hard ones, though its performance degrades significantly in two specific still-easy cases: (1) 17-clue puzzles since these punish solvers that don't propagate hidden singles, (2) 0-solution puzzles since the solver doesn't check for consistency during initialization (something the author acknowledges in a comment).
For context see these benchmarks from a modern laptop (https://github.com/t-dillon/tdoku/blob/master/benchmarks/res...) and compare lhl_sudoku to the other simple solvers tdev_basic_heuristic, zerodoku, fast_solv_9r2, kudoku, and norvig.
For details on the solvers and datasets used in these benchmarks see here (https://github.com/t-dillon/tdoku/tree/master/other) and here (https://github.com/t-dillon/tdoku/tree/master/benchmarks)
Relative to DLX it's faster on the easiest puzzles and slower on hard ones, though its performance degrades significantly in two specific still-easy cases: (1) 17-clue puzzles since these punish solvers that don't propagate hidden singles, (2) 0-solution puzzles since the solver doesn't check for consistency during initialization (something the author acknowledges in a comment).
For context see these benchmarks from a modern laptop (https://github.com/t-dillon/tdoku/blob/master/benchmarks/res...) and compare lhl_sudoku to the other simple solvers tdev_basic_heuristic, zerodoku, fast_solv_9r2, kudoku, and norvig.
For details on the solvers and datasets used in these benchmarks see here (https://github.com/t-dillon/tdoku/tree/master/other) and here (https://github.com/t-dillon/tdoku/tree/master/benchmarks)
The solution time can vary quite a bit depending on the difficulty of the puzzle. 1 ms for a single puzzle for a program written in C could actually be fairly slow for an easy puzzle, but would be quite fast for a hard puzzle. (It would also depend, of course, on how fast a CPU and how much memory was being used to run the program.)
I guess he was born into politics so kudos to him for learning and mastering another field.
"Obama became the first president ever to write a computer program. It was a very simple program — all it does is draw a square on a screen—but that's the point"
https://www.wired.com/2014/12/obama-becomes-first-president-...
https://www.wired.com/2014/12/obama-becomes-first-president-...
That might explain why Singapore is surprisingly strong in CS. For example in the last olympiad (IOI) they managed to get 3 gold and 1 silver medals despite their relatively small population size: https://stats.ioinformatics.org/results/2021
Singapore has a fairly good education system for rote learning, but pre-FAANG, computer science was seen as a dumping ground [1].
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/SGExams/comments/azb9rq/uni_why_is_...
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/SGExams/comments/azb9rq/uni_why_is_...
causal link is very tenuous here. i dont think he's ever been involved in the education system and this code is pretty much the only code related thing we've seen out of him since he got his CS degree in 1974
To be fair, Singapore is surprisingly strong in everything. Google "little red dot" and you'll get a window into their mindset.
If you are interested in politics, in particular the relationship between the US and China, this is a very interesting interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOTWKAMyFBY
PM Lee Hsien Loong at the Bloomberg New Economy Forum 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOTWKAMyFBY
PM Lee Hsien Loong at the Bloomberg New Economy Forum 2021
There are companies that ask you to write a sudoku solver after a day of interviews :(
I don't even know how to play Sudoku.
while (!isSolved(sudoku)) {
sudoku = generateNextPermutation(sudoku);
}
A bogosolver is a valid approach. I mean it'll take forever, but it's valid.
You can solve it via brute force if you cut off branches that don't satisfy the rules:
https://github.com/tonyedgecombe/Sudoku/blob/master/Sudoku/P...
It's not 1ms but it's not that slow either.
https://github.com/tonyedgecombe/Sudoku/blob/master/Sudoku/P...
It's not 1ms but it's not that slow either.
I plead the halting problem.
There are a limited number of permutations. Assuming it's not choosing them randomly, it'll finish eventually... If the hardware doesn't die first.
You have a 9x9 grid, subdivided into 3x3 blocks. The goal is to ensure that every row, column, and block has the numbers 1-9, so that no row, column or block has a duplicate number. The puzzle will have some numbers filled in, the rest is up to the person filling it in.
I wrote a solver for it back in school, it... wasn't the best? But it worked. The one solution I built solved it like I did - go through every row, column and block, then every number, and ask "is this number possible here" - look for conflicts. The next iteration was "is there only one number possible in this space".
Of course, the teachers were expecting a more brute force approach; I forgot the name, but basically it involved iterating over every space, then every number; if the number fits, move on to the next square; if no numbers fit, backtrack to the previous space and iterate on that number. It solved everything within a second or so, but it was really brute force.
I wrote a solver for it back in school, it... wasn't the best? But it worked. The one solution I built solved it like I did - go through every row, column and block, then every number, and ask "is this number possible here" - look for conflicts. The next iteration was "is there only one number possible in this space".
Of course, the teachers were expecting a more brute force approach; I forgot the name, but basically it involved iterating over every space, then every number; if the number fits, move on to the next square; if no numbers fit, backtrack to the previous space and iterate on that number. It solved everything within a second or so, but it was really brute force.
constant propagation is the standard way to solve soduku.
Sudoku is a nice little 'hello world' problem for constraint modeling languages, such as MiniZinc.
https://www.minizinc.org/
https://www.minizinc.org/
I tried writing a sudoku solver using what I figured were standard algorithmic approaches. It was a mess and didn't really work.
Then I wrote one with SAT. I think it was 60 LOC, super easy to understand, and ran in about 0.4 sec.
Then I wrote one with SAT. I think it was 60 LOC, super easy to understand, and ran in about 0.4 sec.
Some puzzles cannot be solved with constraint propagation alone, but require trial and error at some point.
Didn't know either till then ;) But asking something like this after four different interviews, though. I was already pretty tired from the other interviews
it is not that hard to write an unoptimized sudoku solver using backtracking.
That's how I got hired
The existence of this code simply says this guy has an engineering degree, not necessarily CS. Shocking.
What are people trying to make out of this? That he is a tech expert and and therefore should be trusted with tech policies?
What are people trying to make out of this? That he is a tech expert and and therefore should be trusted with tech policies?
I'm having trouble following the code - does this just brute force the solution by trying all possibilities?
Perhaps we should send some of our politicians through the LeetCode hoops.
(2018)
He is obviously a smart person. I wouldn’t vote for him though. He recently sued and won a “libel” case against a blogger who reposted a link to a Malaysian web site claiming the PM is involved in the 1MDB scandal.
Singapore is a one-party police state with zero press freedom and a poor track record of respecting human rights (being gay is still illegal).
So whilst it’s impressive that politician can code, I don’t like him, his views, or his political party.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Singapore-blogger-crowdfund...
Singapore is a one-party police state with zero press freedom and a poor track record of respecting human rights (being gay is still illegal).
So whilst it’s impressive that politician can code, I don’t like him, his views, or his political party.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Singapore-blogger-crowdfund...
It's also illegal in Singapore to proceed with any investigation of government activity. There are no checks and balances. There is no investigative journalism or allowed points of view that are not approved by the state. There is conflict of interest within the government, and no ability to dig into it without prosecution.
Imagine Obama suing a college student for something they wrote on their blog. Now, Trump might have done something like that.. which is the main parallel to draw with the current leadership in Singapore.
Imagine Obama suing a college student for something they wrote on their blog. Now, Trump might have done something like that.. which is the main parallel to draw with the current leadership in Singapore.
US policy regarding prosecution of leaks, suppression of journalists, etc is mostly independent of which President sits in the White House. The fact that you believe otherwise shows that you have massive blinkers on - propaganda has successfully done its job.
> US policy regarding prosecution of leaks, etc is mostly independent of which President sits in the White House. The fact that you believe otherwise shows that you have massive blinkers on - propaganda has successfully done its job.
As my other comment mentioned, this is not about leaks. This is about open questions being raised by citizens of a government, who wish to see more investigation into the activities of the government. I said nothing about prosecution for leaks, nor is this discussion even about that.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30176959
As my other comment mentioned, this is not about leaks. This is about open questions being raised by citizens of a government, who wish to see more investigation into the activities of the government. I said nothing about prosecution for leaks, nor is this discussion even about that.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30176959
The line drawn is a bit thin there since investigative journalism necessarily involves whistleblowers or asking pointed questions based on tips. Trump had Obama to show him the true way of suppression and merrily followed in his footsteps.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/30/opinion/sunday/if-donald-...
Under Mr. Obama, the Justice Department and the F.B.I. have spied on reporters by monitoring their phone records, labeled one journalist an unindicted co-conspirator in a criminal case for simply doing reporting and issued subpoenas to other reporters to try to force them to reveal their sources and testify in criminal cases. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doj-invoked-espionage-act-i...
Dana Priest, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter for The Washington Post, added: “Obama’s attorney general repeatedly allowed the F.B.I. to use intrusive measures against reporters more often than any time in recent memory. The moral obstacles have been cleared for Trump’s attorney general to go even further, to forget that it’s a free press that has distinguished us from other countries, and to try to silence dissent by silencing an institution whose job is to give voice to dissent.”
https://www.cato.org/commentary/vendetta-how-obama-administr... Fast and Furious involved a sting operation that the Justice Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives concocted to infiltrate and weaken Mexican drug cartels. The scheme entailed shipping traceable guns to the drug trafficking gangs and then following the trail to identify and neutralize those organizations and the kingpins who ran them. But Operation Fast and Furious backfired badly. Law enforcement personnel assigned to maintain the traces lost track of where the weapons ultimately ended up. The cartels received more than 1,700 additional weapons at the expense of US taxpayers. Not surprisingly, the Obama administration sought to conceal the nature and extent of the fiasco. Invoking “executive privilege,” Attorney General Eric Holder even defied a congressional subpoena and refused to testify before a House committee investigating the Fast and Furious scheme.
But yes, Obama==GOOD, Trump==BAD
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/30/opinion/sunday/if-donald-...
Under Mr. Obama, the Justice Department and the F.B.I. have spied on reporters by monitoring their phone records, labeled one journalist an unindicted co-conspirator in a criminal case for simply doing reporting and issued subpoenas to other reporters to try to force them to reveal their sources and testify in criminal cases. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doj-invoked-espionage-act-i...
Dana Priest, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter for The Washington Post, added: “Obama’s attorney general repeatedly allowed the F.B.I. to use intrusive measures against reporters more often than any time in recent memory. The moral obstacles have been cleared for Trump’s attorney general to go even further, to forget that it’s a free press that has distinguished us from other countries, and to try to silence dissent by silencing an institution whose job is to give voice to dissent.”
https://www.cato.org/commentary/vendetta-how-obama-administr... Fast and Furious involved a sting operation that the Justice Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives concocted to infiltrate and weaken Mexican drug cartels. The scheme entailed shipping traceable guns to the drug trafficking gangs and then following the trail to identify and neutralize those organizations and the kingpins who ran them. But Operation Fast and Furious backfired badly. Law enforcement personnel assigned to maintain the traces lost track of where the weapons ultimately ended up. The cartels received more than 1,700 additional weapons at the expense of US taxpayers. Not surprisingly, the Obama administration sought to conceal the nature and extent of the fiasco. Invoking “executive privilege,” Attorney General Eric Holder even defied a congressional subpoena and refused to testify before a House committee investigating the Fast and Furious scheme.
But yes, Obama==GOOD, Trump==BAD
I don't think the overton window is very far from the worst case for the US, but it is documented that Obama specifically did not want to charge Assange because of press freedom concerns. Of course in the long term it didn't matter because every 4-8 years everyone has global amnesia and decides to swap for a completely different kind of head of state.
The american state is a large behemoth that moves on its own for much (and almost always in the wrong direction), but it's not like there are absolutely zero differences between who sits in the chair (and there is a lot of potential for someone who has the will to effect change).
The american state is a large behemoth that moves on its own for much (and almost always in the wrong direction), but it's not like there are absolutely zero differences between who sits in the chair (and there is a lot of potential for someone who has the will to effect change).
Getting it out that Obama did not want Assange prosecuted is typical of American style politics. When you are on both sides of the fence you can address criticism by pointing out that you did not want to take the action or pointing to the action that you did take to get him extradited. It is a win no matter which way the wind blows.
The picture you’re painting doesn’t reflect the reality of the country. Singapore is consistently rated as one of the least corrupt countries in the world.
> The picture you’re painting doesn’t reflect the reality of the country
As someone who has spent much of my life in that country, yes it does. However, I think that you are conflating orthogonal concepts.
As someone who has spent much of my life in that country, yes it does. However, I think that you are conflating orthogonal concepts.
I’m surprised to hear that as that hasn’t been my experience living there (I’m not Singaporean though).
It’s actually a very nice country for an Expat to live in. Much of the gain with little of the negatives, and usually a limit on your overall exposure to these things. And most expats are much more focused on their individual experiences than the long-term effects of a government.
I don't think the comment was about corruption but about an oppressive political climate
This Wikipedia section paints it the best, in my admittedly unqualified opinion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Singapore#Politica...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Singapore#Politica...
Even Hitler's Germany was considered well-governed by some, until it wasn't.
You got that last comparison backwards: https://pressfreedomtracker.us/blog/obama-used-espionage-act...
I don't believe Trump jailed any reporters, unlike the record achieved by Obama.
You are referring to something different, a government attack on leaks of classified info. I don't have an opinion on that.
What Singapore's PM has done is personally sue people, such as college students, for speculation on their blogs. Not at all the same thing -- no leaks of government information, instead, open questions attempting to investigate and raise awareness of conflicts of interest. Some students have gone bankrupt by these attacks.
Trump is also that petty.
What Singapore's PM has done is personally sue people, such as college students, for speculation on their blogs. Not at all the same thing -- no leaks of government information, instead, open questions attempting to investigate and raise awareness of conflicts of interest. Some students have gone bankrupt by these attacks.
Trump is also that petty.
No comparison is ever perfect. No, Obama didn't jail a college student blogger. He did go after Assange, Manning, and many others. He attacked more people willing to uncover government activities than any other president.
But you're right, it's not an exact same thing as suing speculating college students. It's much worse. We live in a democratic republic supposedly.
It was Trump who actually went against Assange at the end of the day. The extradition was started under his administration. Obama's administration did decide not to go forward with it.
Obama couldn't extradite a man out of an embassy of a country that was not cooperating.
It sounds like people are arguing about which President to blame for the jailing of journalists when both parties in the US hold the same position on the matter. The details are circumstantial.
According to all records on this, the reason he was not charged by Obama was that his administration was afraid the case would not hold up in court. If they felt differently, I don't see why the extradition request wouldn't have been made, whether he was still held up in the Ecuadorian embassy or not. After all, Ecuador and the US have had an extradition treaty since 1872 and all that the US had to do is pressure Ecuador and wait/influence them till a new government was in place.
It was Trump's administration that according to all information simply felt differently about the case entirely. This is why his Justice Department went forward.
>President Barack Obama’s Justice Department had extensive internal debates about whether to charge Assange amid concerns the case might not hold up in court and would be viewed as an attack on journalism by an administration already taking heat for leak prosecutions.
>
>But senior Trump administration officials seemed to make clear early on that they held a different view, dialing up the rhetoric on the anti-secrecy organization shortly after it made damaging disclosures about the CIA’s cyberespionage tools.
AP(1)
I mean if you have sources to the contrary, please share them. But all that was available so far doesn't really help your assumption there. Also, is this really surprising? Trump promised (but thankfully failed) to "open up Libel laws" after all.(2)
_____
(1) https://apnews.com/article/north-america-ap-top-news-barack-...
(2) https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpomete...
It was Trump's administration that according to all information simply felt differently about the case entirely. This is why his Justice Department went forward.
>President Barack Obama’s Justice Department had extensive internal debates about whether to charge Assange amid concerns the case might not hold up in court and would be viewed as an attack on journalism by an administration already taking heat for leak prosecutions.
>
>But senior Trump administration officials seemed to make clear early on that they held a different view, dialing up the rhetoric on the anti-secrecy organization shortly after it made damaging disclosures about the CIA’s cyberespionage tools.
AP(1)
I mean if you have sources to the contrary, please share them. But all that was available so far doesn't really help your assumption there. Also, is this really surprising? Trump promised (but thankfully failed) to "open up Libel laws" after all.(2)
_____
(1) https://apnews.com/article/north-america-ap-top-news-barack-...
(2) https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpomete...
> Attorney General Eric Holder directed the Department of Justice to aggressively prosecute government employees who discussed classified information with reporters. In 2012, after news organizations reported on U.S. drone strikes and attempts to disable Iranian nuclear reactors, Holder assigned two U.S. attorneys to track down the journalists’ sources.
I've found some talk about a Fox News reporter being investigated, but I don't see anything anywhere (yet) about any reporters being arrested. Can you cite your sources, please?
> jailed any reporters, unlike the record achieved by Obama
I've found some talk about a Fox News reporter being investigated, but I don't see anything anywhere (yet) about any reporters being arrested. Can you cite your sources, please?
> jailed any reporters, unlike the record achieved by Obama
Also, during the unrest of 2020 dozens of credentialed journalists were assaulted by government forces, including in many places by state and local police that were backstopped with federal agents.
[deleted]
I have long been banging on that software is a new form of literacy (and will have similar deep far reaching social changes)
I completely agree with you about the Singapore PMs political views. But this is a turning in the weather - all of us must become coders - the "elites", our leaders, our children, our accountants etc. And one country has now got one "literate" leader. He will make different decisions because of his literacy.
We might not like those decisions, but software awareness will affect his decisions (although probably less than local politics, economics, bribes etc)
We are seeing chnage happen
I completely agree with you about the Singapore PMs political views. But this is a turning in the weather - all of us must become coders - the "elites", our leaders, our children, our accountants etc. And one country has now got one "literate" leader. He will make different decisions because of his literacy.
We might not like those decisions, but software awareness will affect his decisions (although probably less than local politics, economics, bribes etc)
We are seeing chnage happen
I would say it's less important for our leaders to be at the coalface and coding / learning to code than for them to know what's possible.
During the last industrial revolution, the leaders who we all hear about weren't directly involved in building the machines which automated processes. Rather, they were experts at leveraging skills of people who could do it.
During the last industrial revolution, the leaders who we all hear about weren't directly involved in building the machines which automated processes. Rather, they were experts at leveraging skills of people who could do it.
The most important line of this was "we may not like those decisions" and "software awareness will affect his decisions".
It's not difficult to project how software might affect the decisions of someone who allows for no checks/balances aka some form of democracy.
It's not difficult to project how software might affect the decisions of someone who allows for no checks/balances aka some form of democracy.
[deleted]
Human Rights Watch have a very good write up on Singapore here:
https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/12/12/kill-chicken-scare-mon...
https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/12/12/kill-chicken-scare-mon...
And Singepore wasn't invited to Biden's summit for democracies ...
Source?
I found this: https://www.state.gov/participant-list-the-summit-for-democr...
Wow, I was surprised to see that Sri Lanka was not on the list. Does anyone know the story behind that? Also, Nepal and Bangladesh are missing. That is also strange. All of them are certainly (proud) democracies!
Wow, I was surprised to see that Sri Lanka was not on the list. Does anyone know the story behind that? Also, Nepal and Bangladesh are missing. That is also strange. All of them are certainly (proud) democracies!
Why would a “Summit on Democracy” matter other then to show who the US are pals with and which ones (by omission) would rather be pals with other (opposing) powers?
It is all about China.
They also somehow managed to censor Audrey Tang of Taiwan (another computer scientist turned politician) live on video-link.
Just goes to show how carefully orchestrated all this is.
They also somehow managed to censor Audrey Tang of Taiwan (another computer scientist turned politician) live on video-link.
Just goes to show how carefully orchestrated all this is.
Woah! AT (Audrey Tang) [1] is an amazing person. For those unaware, she is a "minister without portfolio for digital affairs" (a mouthful!) in Taiwan. I tried to Google about this but couldn't find anything. Can you share a link?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Tang
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Tang
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/13/us-appears-to-...
US appears to cut video feed of Taiwanese minister at summit
US appears to cut video feed of Taiwanese minister at summit
You can google it.
The point is; Singapore doesn't toe the US line on China and therefore gets HRW and similar thrown after them.
Which is absurd as Singapore is by far the best-governed country in the neighbourhood.
The point is; Singapore doesn't toe the US line on China and therefore gets HRW and similar thrown after them.
Which is absurd as Singapore is by far the best-governed country in the neighbourhood.
I don't normally do this but...it's "toe the line".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line
Thank you.
>The point is; Singapore doesn't toe the US line on China and therefore gets HRW and similar thrown after them.
Human Rights Watch isn't part of the American government. They've criticized the US numerous times. So much so that they are concluding that the US is trying to discredit them.(1) Singapore might simply not have been invited because they're not a real democracy.
>Which is absurd as Singapore is by far the best-governed country in the neighbourhood.
Best governed (according to you) != democracy.
_____
(1) https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/10/23/us-seeks-discredit-human...
Human Rights Watch isn't part of the American government. They've criticized the US numerous times. So much so that they are concluding that the US is trying to discredit them.(1) Singapore might simply not have been invited because they're not a real democracy.
>Which is absurd as Singapore is by far the best-governed country in the neighbourhood.
Best governed (according to you) != democracy.
_____
(1) https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/10/23/us-seeks-discredit-human...
I suspect there's a reasonable argument to be made that under certain circumstances, democracy is a substantial barrier to optimization of governance. Between Soviet/CCP long-term planning capacity and the fascists' making the trains run on time, industrial totalitarianism has a track record of getting the job done.
That said, all that job-doing is at the mortal expense of anyone who disagrees, stands in the way, or can be scapegoated for standing in the way. Also, woe be upon you if your leadership selection process picks a dud (compare the damage an incompetent megalomaniac leader in a limited democratic system can do to the same result in an absolutist dictatorship).
That said, all that job-doing is at the mortal expense of anyone who disagrees, stands in the way, or can be scapegoated for standing in the way. Also, woe be upon you if your leadership selection process picks a dud (compare the damage an incompetent megalomaniac leader in a limited democratic system can do to the same result in an absolutist dictatorship).
Singapore is a democracy, claiming otherwise is just an idiotic insult.
You see the pattern of the same group holding power for a very long time in some countries, in particular in times of high growth (rather than oscillating between blocks like the US).
For example LDP in Japan or the socialdemocrats in Sweden.
It really doesn't mean that they are not democratic.
You see the pattern of the same group holding power for a very long time in some countries, in particular in times of high growth (rather than oscillating between blocks like the US).
For example LDP in Japan or the socialdemocrats in Sweden.
It really doesn't mean that they are not democratic.
[deleted]
In general, I think it's very dangerous to assume that politicians--especially ones who can secure premier positions--are stupid. It makes it too easy give up against them, to explain away the evils they commit as "whaddayagonnado?"
One can be smart in a field and not in another: negociations is more important in politics than coding.
I wonder how often a person tagged as a "smart person" by our personal neural network turns out to be not true?
Seriously, comment was flagged?
rabite(4)
Amazing how you can take recent victories of liberties in certain places and then start judging other countries when they don't abide by them.
Give them time! Don't assassinate them for being who they have been for years upon years and how they still have not changed as much as you would be pleased.
Honestly, the world will start to see a backward shift on woke culture after the PR disaster that the far left wing administration in the US is becoming.
Give them time! Don't assassinate them for being who they have been for years upon years and how they still have not changed as much as you would be pleased.
Honestly, the world will start to see a backward shift on woke culture after the PR disaster that the far left wing administration in the US is becoming.
Singapore is an island nation with a tiny population (~7M) and has loads of national security concerns including destabilizing forces spreading misinformation.
So, no, suing for libel in a personal capacity does NOT equate to exercising state power as you assert. Unless you claim the entire Judiciary and state apparatus which has a long track record of issuing rulings both for and against public personalities is somehow flawed.
This is HN, i wouldn't have expected a comment such as this to go unchecked this long.
So, no, suing for libel in a personal capacity does NOT equate to exercising state power as you assert. Unless you claim the entire Judiciary and state apparatus which has a long track record of issuing rulings both for and against public personalities is somehow flawed.
This is HN, i wouldn't have expected a comment such as this to go unchecked this long.
Correction: Singapore has a population of 5.7 million. Were you thinking of the 7.5 million that live in Hongkong?
Also, I don't understand this part: <<has loads of national security concerns including destabilizing forces spreading misinformation.>> I think the ruling parties (including opposition!) of every sovereign state on planet Earth could/would/does make the exact same claim. Claims like that feel like "The War on Terror" which makes no sense on so many levels. See also: Countries that are permanently in a "revolution". Example: Iran's Supreme Council of the Cultural Revolution (SCCR; Persian: شورای عالی انقلاب فرهنگی)
Also, I don't understand this part: <<has loads of national security concerns including destabilizing forces spreading misinformation.>> I think the ruling parties (including opposition!) of every sovereign state on planet Earth could/would/does make the exact same claim. Claims like that feel like "The War on Terror" which makes no sense on so many levels. See also: Countries that are permanently in a "revolution". Example: Iran's Supreme Council of the Cultural Revolution (SCCR; Persian: شورای عالی انقلاب فرهنگی)
You don’t understand or you don’t agree?
The sentence and the security environment in the region are well documented and covered in the security posture reviews routinely covered by official press.
What specifically is your argument?
The sentence and the security environment in the region are well documented and covered in the security posture reviews routinely covered by official press.
What specifically is your argument?
My comment on the PM and his relationship with poor human rights in Singapore was flagged. It got 70 upvotes.
Seriously. :/
—- Here it is: He is obviously a smart person. I wouldn’t vote for him though. He recently sued and won a “libel” case against a blogger who reposted a link to a Malaysian web site claiming the PM is involved in the 1MDB scandal. Singapore is a one-party police state with zero press freedom and a poor track record of respecting human rights (being gay is still illegal). So whilst it’s impressive that politician can code, I don’t like him, his views, or his political party. https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Singapore-blogger-crowdfund...
—- Here it is: He is obviously a smart person. I wouldn’t vote for him though. He recently sued and won a “libel” case against a blogger who reposted a link to a Malaysian web site claiming the PM is involved in the 1MDB scandal. Singapore is a one-party police state with zero press freedom and a poor track record of respecting human rights (being gay is still illegal). So whilst it’s impressive that politician can code, I don’t like him, his views, or his political party. https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Singapore-blogger-crowdfund...
Reposting flagged comments like this is doing an end run around moderation. That's abusive. Please don't do that again.
Btw, upvotes are one factor in the system here. They are not the only factor. Indignation, sensationalism, flamewar, and other bad-for-HN things routinely get tons of upvotes. It's not a reliable signal of goodness, which is why countervailing mechanisms like flags and moderation are also necessary.
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
Btw, upvotes are one factor in the system here. They are not the only factor. Indignation, sensationalism, flamewar, and other bad-for-HN things routinely get tons of upvotes. It's not a reliable signal of goodness, which is why countervailing mechanisms like flags and moderation are also necessary.
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
Was the comment "bad" because it got the extremely homophobic response from rabite? I'm in the same boat as GP - I don't fully agree with him, but at the same time I don't see how it was any different in tone or substance to many other acceptable HN comments.
Why didn't you restore the original comment? It doesn't seem to break any rules. The most frustrating aspect of HN is that there is no easy way to have meta discussion about the rules or the actions of users.
>The most frustrating aspect of HN is that there is no easy way to have meta discussion about the rules or the actions of users.
Honestly, HN seems worlds better than any other forum in this regard. Just the fact that dang responded to this post with information about the moderation process rather than banning the guy shows far more restraint and respect than any other internet moderator.
Honestly, HN seems worlds better than any other forum in this regard. Just the fact that dang responded to this post with information about the moderation process rather than banning the guy shows far more restraint and respect than any other internet moderator.
Eh... The moderator transparency here is very low. Even reddit has moderation logs.
At the same time, you can ask dang to explain any decision he's made and he'll give you a fair and reasonable (if sometimes mistaken) answer.
> Singapore is a one-party police state with zero press freedom and a poor track record of respecting human rights (being gay is still illegal).
Singapore is a real, functioning democracy. It’s a city-state not much bigger than Chicago. Is Chicago a “one party” state? When was the last time San Francisco voted for a Republican mayor? Singapore is an Asian country with a significant Muslim population. How they exercise their democratic self determination to structure their society is none of our business.
Frankly, bringing up individual rights in every discussion of Singapore strikes me as a very privileged take. As someone from Bangladesh, I wish Americans and others in the international community would focus more on understanding how Singapore turned itself from a poor third world country into an affluent one in a single generation. How it managed to crack down on the corruption and political instability that plagues fledging democracies. Studying those lessons would pay far greater dividends in terms of improving the human condition in Africa and Asia than imposing western notions of individual rights.
For folks who do care about this issue, reading Lee Kuan Yew’s thoughts is fascinating. https://paulbacon.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/zakaria_lee.pd.... This interview, in particular, is great. The interviewer. CNN’s Fareed Zakaria, is one of the most insightful observers of international politics in America.
Singapore is a real, functioning democracy. It’s a city-state not much bigger than Chicago. Is Chicago a “one party” state? When was the last time San Francisco voted for a Republican mayor? Singapore is an Asian country with a significant Muslim population. How they exercise their democratic self determination to structure their society is none of our business.
Frankly, bringing up individual rights in every discussion of Singapore strikes me as a very privileged take. As someone from Bangladesh, I wish Americans and others in the international community would focus more on understanding how Singapore turned itself from a poor third world country into an affluent one in a single generation. How it managed to crack down on the corruption and political instability that plagues fledging democracies. Studying those lessons would pay far greater dividends in terms of improving the human condition in Africa and Asia than imposing western notions of individual rights.
For folks who do care about this issue, reading Lee Kuan Yew’s thoughts is fascinating. https://paulbacon.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/zakaria_lee.pd.... This interview, in particular, is great. The interviewer. CNN’s Fareed Zakaria, is one of the most insightful observers of international politics in America.
> bringing up individual rights in every discussion of Singapore strikes me as a very privileged take. As someone from Bangladesh, I wish Americans and others in the international community would focus more on understanding how Singapore turned itself from a poor third world country into an affluent one in a single generation.
I sort of agree, but both should occur. Letting transgressions slide because economic progress is made should not occur. Letting the bad happen and excusing it as ‘growing pain’, ‘we are bringing them to the table’ etc has all occurred in the past. The next thing you know, they are big and powerful and don’t want to change.
It doesn’t take much reading about Singapore to be fairly alarmed at the state of human rights and government control. They are listening, recording and require you to register for things like public speaking. This is apart from issues like gay rights, workers rights, flogging of criminals and executions. Government opposition parties are under active surveillance and quickly sanctioned should they push too far. I’m surprised anyone argues for it, however those I know from Singapore strongly defend it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore
I sort of agree, but both should occur. Letting transgressions slide because economic progress is made should not occur. Letting the bad happen and excusing it as ‘growing pain’, ‘we are bringing them to the table’ etc has all occurred in the past. The next thing you know, they are big and powerful and don’t want to change.
It doesn’t take much reading about Singapore to be fairly alarmed at the state of human rights and government control. They are listening, recording and require you to register for things like public speaking. This is apart from issues like gay rights, workers rights, flogging of criminals and executions. Government opposition parties are under active surveillance and quickly sanctioned should they push too far. I’m surprised anyone argues for it, however those I know from Singapore strongly defend it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore
> I sort of agree, but both should occur. Letting transgressions slide because economic progress is made should not occur.
That assumes that these things are uncorrelated, and I don’t think you can make that assumption without proof. For example, Singapore is a multi-ethnic, multi-religious society with a delicate balance between Chinese (Confucian), Malays (Muslim), and Indians (Hindu). This is a mix that in many countries could devolve into perpetual ethnic conflict. Indeed, Singapore separated from Malaysia due to conflict between the Chinese and the Malay.
Part of that grand bargain is that the culture of government is Anglo and Confucian, but the government otherwise avoids intruding on the culture of the other two groups. Homosexuality is simply not accepted in Islam and among Indians. So a push to legalize it would be seen as an attack by westernized English-speaking Chinese upon the two other cultural groups.
Lee Kuan Yew was, in fact, extremely westernized (he spoke English as his first language), and opposed the law against homosexuality. But he was not about to upset social stability and unity in the country over that issue: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-singapore-homosexuality-i...
In America, we take social stability for granted. Imposing social change without broad public consensus creates social strife and more than a little dysfunction even in America. In a developing country, such conflict could be fatal. The calculus of individual welfare versus collective welfare is simply different in a developing country. Singapore’s infant mortality dropped from 35 per 1,000 to 2.5 per 1,000 from 1960 to 2000. Anything that sets back economic development, no matter how well intentioned the goal, means literally tens of thousands of dead children. That’s the cold hard reality people in wealthy countries don’t have to deal with.
That assumes that these things are uncorrelated, and I don’t think you can make that assumption without proof. For example, Singapore is a multi-ethnic, multi-religious society with a delicate balance between Chinese (Confucian), Malays (Muslim), and Indians (Hindu). This is a mix that in many countries could devolve into perpetual ethnic conflict. Indeed, Singapore separated from Malaysia due to conflict between the Chinese and the Malay.
Part of that grand bargain is that the culture of government is Anglo and Confucian, but the government otherwise avoids intruding on the culture of the other two groups. Homosexuality is simply not accepted in Islam and among Indians. So a push to legalize it would be seen as an attack by westernized English-speaking Chinese upon the two other cultural groups.
Lee Kuan Yew was, in fact, extremely westernized (he spoke English as his first language), and opposed the law against homosexuality. But he was not about to upset social stability and unity in the country over that issue: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-singapore-homosexuality-i...
In America, we take social stability for granted. Imposing social change without broad public consensus creates social strife and more than a little dysfunction even in America. In a developing country, such conflict could be fatal. The calculus of individual welfare versus collective welfare is simply different in a developing country. Singapore’s infant mortality dropped from 35 per 1,000 to 2.5 per 1,000 from 1960 to 2000. Anything that sets back economic development, no matter how well intentioned the goal, means literally tens of thousands of dead children. That’s the cold hard reality people in wealthy countries don’t have to deal with.
It’s hard for me to over-emphasize what “economic development” means in the context of a third world country. When my dad was growing up in a village in Bangladesh, 1 out of 4 kids would die before age 5. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed during the independence war due to conflict between Urdu speaking Pakistanis and Bangla speaking Bangladeshis. To this day Hindus are fleeing Bangladesh to go back to India, and the Hindu population is under 10% now (compared to 30% in 1947 before Indian independence). The founder of the country was assassinated. His successor was overthrown in a coup. We left the country in 1989 during a military dictatorship. The current prime minister has thrown the opposition party leader in jail. The 10 richest Bangladeshis include both sons of both party leaders, who are nearly billionaires from corruption.
So caning people for public disorder? Well it’s relative. If an authoritarian government is what it takes to straighten out society and get it on the right track, it is what it is.
It’s not lost on me that the predecessors of the prosperous northeastern states were extremely repressive Puritan, Dutch, and Quaker communities.
So caning people for public disorder? Well it’s relative. If an authoritarian government is what it takes to straighten out society and get it on the right track, it is what it is.
It’s not lost on me that the predecessors of the prosperous northeastern states were extremely repressive Puritan, Dutch, and Quaker communities.
Quakers? Repressive? The exact opposite. Pennsylvania and Philadelphia had religious freedom; it was a haven of non-repression.
You have to be careful to distinguish between freedom for distinct communities and freedom for individuals within communities. Pluralism doesn’t necessarily go hand in hand with individualism. Quaker society was quite rigid when it came to enforcing norms and social order within communities, against individuals.
Similarly, Singapore has broad freedoms for its distinct ethnic and religious groups. But it aggressively enforces social order as to individuals.
Similarly, Singapore has broad freedoms for its distinct ethnic and religious groups. But it aggressively enforces social order as to individuals.
What was the most repressive aspect of being a Quaker? The Puritans were throwing people in jail, and they had that whole Rhode Island thing. (Did Rhode Island flounder?) The Dutch, I'm ignorant of.
Let's say you're a Quaker and you come over as an indentured servant in southeast Pennsylvania in the William Penn era. After your servitude is up, you get 50 acres and another 50 acres from William Penn and become a farmer. How much less repressive would your environment or your children's environment be if you weren't a Quaker? You're still a farmer, farming, who crossed the ocean to a new world to be an indentured servant. Did the non-Quakers slack off?
Let's say you're a Quaker and you come over as an indentured servant in southeast Pennsylvania in the William Penn era. After your servitude is up, you get 50 acres and another 50 acres from William Penn and become a farmer. How much less repressive would your environment or your children's environment be if you weren't a Quaker? You're still a farmer, farming, who crossed the ocean to a new world to be an indentured servant. Did the non-Quakers slack off?
> Singapore is a real, functioning democracy.
Singapore is a "democracy" where the system is heavily stacked against opposition parties, and where supposedly apolitical institutions funded with public money like the "grassroots" People's Association [1][2][3] are heavily biased towards the dominant People's Action Party.
[1] https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/explainer-perennial-is...
[2] https://theindependent.sg/wps-sylvia-lim-has-to-use-void-dec...
[3] https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jamus-lim-reiterates-...
Singapore is a "democracy" where the system is heavily stacked against opposition parties, and where supposedly apolitical institutions funded with public money like the "grassroots" People's Association [1][2][3] are heavily biased towards the dominant People's Action Party.
[1] https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/explainer-perennial-is...
[2] https://theindependent.sg/wps-sylvia-lim-has-to-use-void-dec...
[3] https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jamus-lim-reiterates-...
So it's like in the US, where tech companies and mainstream media censors conservative views and where the FBI, universities and NGOs funded with public money are heavily biased towards the left?
Indeed; you, the comment you're responding to, and the comment it's responding to are valid points. In my opinion SG and US are both very flawed democracies for different reasons.
You can see this easily in stunted cultural production (compare Singapore with Hong Kong, for example).
Singaporeans I know are very defensive though and love their “benevolent dictatorship” and bring up homelessness in SF or dirty sidewalks or something similar.
Singaporeans I know are very defensive though and love their “benevolent dictatorship” and bring up homelessness in SF or dirty sidewalks or something similar.
Which is a sentiment I wouldn't dismiss. If you have visited Singapore and SF the contrast will hit you in your face hard. To US folks, Singaporeans lack political freedom. To Singaporeans, US friends lack a clean habitat, safety, healthcare, and bunch of other factors that should be a given in modern society. They see the sad wealth gap here (and hence the influence of money on democracy), the growing idiocracy, and a country once on top now sadly in fast decline. So maybe we should hear them out and learn the good parts.
The wealth gap in Singapore is immense as well, but they have different (and derogatory) terminology to refer to it.
For example, the city is built by immigrant workers often from Bangladesh. You should see the living conditions they are forced to endure. It's shameful.
During Covid, they don't even refer to these hard-working people as being members of the community, and they segregated the Covid case counts by those who were and were not a part of society, in their eyes.
For example, the city is built by immigrant workers often from Bangladesh. You should see the living conditions they are forced to endure. It's shameful.
During Covid, they don't even refer to these hard-working people as being members of the community, and they segregated the Covid case counts by those who were and were not a part of society, in their eyes.
Wealth gap list here. Sort by 2019 Gini. You will find US at the worse end of the spectrum (#4) and Singapore is at #64: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_in...
Not sure you read all my comment, but Singapore explicitly excludes many of its residents in its worst living conditions from official tallies.
How much of an impact would you say it has on the index? If it were normalized for “citizens only” do you really think US will fare much better?
If your larger point is about treatment of immigrants, how do you feel about US taxing its immigrants as citizens after 1 yr of stay, but putting them on a line to actual citizenship that could be more than multiple lifetimes long? Didn’t we fight a war about “taxation without representation”? I’m not even talking about literally tearing apart poor immigrant families while all along extracting taxes from them.
If your larger point is about treatment of immigrants, how do you feel about US taxing its immigrants as citizens after 1 yr of stay, but putting them on a line to actual citizenship that could be more than multiple lifetimes long? Didn’t we fight a war about “taxation without representation”? I’m not even talking about literally tearing apart poor immigrant families while all along extracting taxes from them.
You seem to be talking about a lot of different things that are not a coherent part of this discussion. But taking one point:
> line to actual citizenship that could be more than multiple lifetimes long
I'm not sure what you are referring to: almost every immigrant I know in the U.S. who wanted to pursue citizenship got it after at most 7 years in the country, sometimes less. That's a normal time range for most Western countries.
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/guides/ch...
> line to actual citizenship that could be more than multiple lifetimes long
I'm not sure what you are referring to: almost every immigrant I know in the U.S. who wanted to pursue citizenship got it after at most 7 years in the country, sometimes less. That's a normal time range for most Western countries.
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/guides/ch...
It only appears incoherent because you might have conflated two issues in your response (wealth gap and plight of immigrants). Not saying you did it intentionally.
Regarding immigrants, you need to meet more of them to get a better idea. The situation in US is much worse than most western countries. I encourage you to read up on why it is such a massive political issue (Obama's attempted reforms and executive orders, Dreamers, Path to citizenship etc.). Here is one example: https://www.cato.org/blog/150-year-wait-indian-immigrants-ad...
Regarding immigrants, you need to meet more of them to get a better idea. The situation in US is much worse than most western countries. I encourage you to read up on why it is such a massive political issue (Obama's attempted reforms and executive orders, Dreamers, Path to citizenship etc.). Here is one example: https://www.cato.org/blog/150-year-wait-indian-immigrants-ad...
Half of Singapore's population are foreign workers. I'd say excluding them from a Gini calculation has a massive impact.
I have been to Singapore and my take on this is that the Bay Area has Valley Fair and Santana Row and the US has DisneyWorld too... enforced clean, structured, sanitized places are not in short supply in the United States.
Not sure how to respond to a comparison of 0.2 miles of Santana Row to Singapore. It feels we are grasping at the straws here.
It's not an exhaustive list...
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Benevolent dictatorships are great, assuming your country really has one and that the leader is competent as well as benevolent. The problem is the "transfer of power" part. That's where democracy wins. It's super hard to keep benevolent/competent dictators benevolent/competent across generations... And once you are locked into a bad one, you are screwed.
It’s a fair comparison. If San Francisco had been an impoverished third world place back in the 1950s (as Singapore was), would its open and liberal culture have been conductive to it become a wealthy city by today?
Not saying whether or not your comment should have been flagged, but given it is flagged, it's poor form to just repost the comment.
One of the most interesting parts of Lee Kuan Yew’s book for me was when he talked about all the critics he sued for libel. He justified it as “of course I sued them for libel, otherwise why would anyone believe me when I said they were lying?”
I once saw a book written by a 90s politician in Singapore that, in part, tried to explain why there is no free press in Singapore. The reason was that since all press are corrupt, the government cannot allow them. I found that amazing in its arrogance.
This probably has a lot to do with Singapore's fragile existence after founding...after being kicked out of a union with Malaysia due to racial reasons, and with communist insurgencies in vogue in the 1960s/70s. I'm not defending them, just that their history is a reason why Singapore is Singapore.
Every country has its unusual and unique histories, but most countries make progress in key cultural areas through the democratic process. Singapore has basically had just one family in power for its entire existence, which makes such progress much more unlikely, or at best, very difficult.
> but most countries make progress in key cultural areas through the democratic process.
I don't think that is true, especially for the SEA region they are in.
I don't think that is true, especially for the SEA region they are in.
Libel laws exist in Europe too, including UK. Their existence, per se, isn’t problematic.
From an American perspective they certainly are, but I realize we're the odd ones out here with extremely strong 1st amendment protections.
Freedom of speech is just as prominent in many other places, such as the Netherlands.
I could believe that, I know very little about NL law. Is there anything in the Netherlands comparable to the US Sullivan rule?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan
One this count, it does seem like the rest of the world is correct, even Canada has much stronger laws against libel and defamation and there’s no real pressure to make then weaker.
This is how the PAP keeps the opposition suppressed in Singapore.
And when that doesn't work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Security_Act_(Singapo...
These days, it's POFMA [1] and FICA [2], two laws that put a lot of power into the hands of the cabinet, especially our Home Affairs Minister [3].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_from_Online_Falseho...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Interference_(Counterm...
[3] https://newnaratif.com/shanmugams-stealth-coup-in-singapore/
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_from_Online_Falseho...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Interference_(Counterm...
[3] https://newnaratif.com/shanmugams-stealth-coup-in-singapore/
Indeed. The one that stuck out to me is when a constituency votes PAP out, PAP turns off the money. HDBs aren't "selected" for upgrades. Public works projects are delayed, etc. And LKY fully admitted this - "If you don't vote for PAP, why should you benefit from our spending?".
I was surprised it was flagged and am curious why that was. There was a lot of discussion there. I assume that quite a few folks must have flagged it for it to have disappeared as it did. Unless there was a moderator play involved for some reason (or coordinated flagging by Singapore citizens, or perhaps YC interests in Singapore). I can't think of a reason otherwise.
This should be the top comment, sad to see HN mods deleting this instead of arguing with it on its facts.
As it stands, the top comments are all "Oh wow, cool!" which is exactly the reaponse you are cautioning against.
As it stands, the top comments are all "Oh wow, cool!" which is exactly the reaponse you are cautioning against.
replace "Singapore" with "China", then instead of flagging your comment, the HN crowd would shit themselves over your comment.
The difference is that China doesn’t have real elections, and Singapore does. They’re not any less real than elections in say California or New York, even though one party always wins.
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> Singapore is a one-party police state with zero press freedom and a poor track record of respecting human rights (being gay is still illegal).
"Being gay" is largely a western obsession. Different cultures have their attitude towards it (as they should). Polygamy is banned in the US and many western nations and accepted in many parts of the world, nobody argues it is a human rights issue.
Let the Singaporeans be.
"Being gay" is largely a western obsession. Different cultures have their attitude towards it (as they should). Polygamy is banned in the US and many western nations and accepted in many parts of the world, nobody argues it is a human rights issue.
Let the Singaporeans be.
Well, fake news are illegal there. It's a different approach to the "western" one with pros and cons. As for gay rights, I am sure Singapore will revisit policies as soon as the neighboring Muslim countries will open up for some changes.
Living in Singapore sure seems to make people unable to deal with perfectly valid criticism.
Different as in completely wrong.
actually I think its illegal to criticize the government even if its true.
Where? Singapore? It's not illegal per se, but public criticism (not private; I know many civil servants who'll be happy to criticise some of our government's execution in person) is highly discouraged if they value a career in the civil service or any of the many organisations the PAP has their tentacles in.
when I was doing study abroad in Singapore, there was a class on corruption in south east Asian governments. However, they were not allowed to discuss Singapore in that class.
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> It passed all 6/6 test cases with a runtime of 1 ms. Pretty impressive for a prime minister, huh?
I do not know the specific background of Mr Lee, but the thing I always tell myself is that you can teach programming to a microbiologist, but not microbiology to a programmer.
I do not know the specific background of Mr Lee, but the thing I always tell myself is that you can teach programming to a microbiologist, but not microbiology to a programmer.
> I do not know the specific background of Mr Lee
As an undergraduate, he studied maths at Trinity College Cambridge. Béla Bollobás said [1]:
> I certainly taught him more than anybody else in Cambridge. I can truthfully say that he was an exceptionally good student. I’m not sure that this is really known in Singapore. “Because he’s now the Prime Minister,” people may say, “oh, you would say he was good.” No, he was truly outstanding: he was head and shoulders above the rest of the students. He was not only the first, but the gap between him and the man who came second was huge.
> I think that he did computer science (after mathematics) mostly because his father didn’t want him to stay in pure mathematics. Loong was not only hardworking, conscientious and professional, but he was also very inventive. All the signs indicated that he would have been a world-class research mathematician. I’m sure his father never realized how exceptional Loong was. He thought Loong was very good. No, Loong was much better than that. When I tried to tell Lee Kuan Yew, “Look, your son is phenomenally good: you should encourage him to do mathematics,” then he implied that that was impossible, since as a top-flight professional mathematician Loong would leave Singapore for Princeton, Harvard or Cambridge, and that would send the wrong signal to the people in Singapore. And I have to agree that this was a very good point indeed. Now I am even more impressed by Lee Hsien Loong than I was all those years ago, and I am very proud that I taught him; he seems to be doing very well. I have come round to thinking that it was indeed good for him to go into politics; he can certainly make an awful lot of difference.
He then did the (now-discontinued) Diploma in Computer Science at Cambridge.
[1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20180722130213/https://www2.ims....
As an undergraduate, he studied maths at Trinity College Cambridge. Béla Bollobás said [1]:
> I certainly taught him more than anybody else in Cambridge. I can truthfully say that he was an exceptionally good student. I’m not sure that this is really known in Singapore. “Because he’s now the Prime Minister,” people may say, “oh, you would say he was good.” No, he was truly outstanding: he was head and shoulders above the rest of the students. He was not only the first, but the gap between him and the man who came second was huge.
> I think that he did computer science (after mathematics) mostly because his father didn’t want him to stay in pure mathematics. Loong was not only hardworking, conscientious and professional, but he was also very inventive. All the signs indicated that he would have been a world-class research mathematician. I’m sure his father never realized how exceptional Loong was. He thought Loong was very good. No, Loong was much better than that. When I tried to tell Lee Kuan Yew, “Look, your son is phenomenally good: you should encourage him to do mathematics,” then he implied that that was impossible, since as a top-flight professional mathematician Loong would leave Singapore for Princeton, Harvard or Cambridge, and that would send the wrong signal to the people in Singapore. And I have to agree that this was a very good point indeed. Now I am even more impressed by Lee Hsien Loong than I was all those years ago, and I am very proud that I taught him; he seems to be doing very well. I have come round to thinking that it was indeed good for him to go into politics; he can certainly make an awful lot of difference.
He then did the (now-discontinued) Diploma in Computer Science at Cambridge.
[1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20180722130213/https://www2.ims....
Quite sad he didn't pursue science career, it might have brought a few amazing discoveries to the world.
Instead he rotted as an actor of change, represented his citizens, protected his country and solved sudokus.
I dont know if he's good for Singapore but I mean, he did one of the most noble thing a human can do so I wouldnt blame him. I hope to do 1% of what this politician tried to do in my lifetime.
I dont know if he's good for Singapore but I mean, he did one of the most noble thing a human can do so I wouldnt blame him. I hope to do 1% of what this politician tried to do in my lifetime.
Even if Singapore is the best of all the authoritarian governments out there, it is still kinda fucked up. Even with its nature put aside, Singapore still engages in all sorts of regressive, backwards policies, up to a point where it's difficult to claim that any high govt official from Singapore holds any sort of sense of nobility within them. If this person is the prime minister, he is actively choosing to ignore, detach himself from, or even to support and continue those policies.
Singapore is a successful example of how to intergrate multiple ethnicity groups. Many liberal and progressive countries have tried their way and didn't get a good result.
Are both things linked? Even if they were, it's difficult to see how, say, caning as an accepted punishment, or gay rights suppression, can make an effect in ethnicity issues, unless we take this in the context of co-opting the cultural values of the less progressive culture present in the country. And in any case, stomping on some human rights for the greater benefit of the rest of society is kind of a gray area. The least we can do is recognize that grayness. Even if there existed a tangible payoff in acting and governing in that way, everyone should be aware of its price.
Is he also pursuing covid-zero at all costs? death penalty for drug dealer? embracing canning? Kim jung um studied at a top school too
I vouched for this comment because it was worth addressing.
You can go online and ask Singaporeans all day about their opinion of Lee Hsien Loong, depending on how old they are they've voted for or against him and the PAP several times.
Singapore is a de facto one-party state, but it stays that way by (sometimes narrowly) keeping the ruling party in power by voting for it periodically.
The comparison to Kim Jun "um" is inept and insulting.
You can go online and ask Singaporeans all day about their opinion of Lee Hsien Loong, depending on how old they are they've voted for or against him and the PAP several times.
Singapore is a de facto one-party state, but it stays that way by (sometimes narrowly) keeping the ruling party in power by voting for it periodically.
The comparison to Kim Jun "um" is inept and insulting.
Quite the opposite - I'm not sure how many eminent mathematicians have the background to have gone far in politics.
The early pandemic outlined how many politicians lacked even the ability to reason about exponentials (let alone scientific thinking!) I am very glad that there is at least SOME representation of great thinkers amongst our leader-class
The early pandemic outlined how many politicians lacked even the ability to reason about exponentials (let alone scientific thinking!) I am very glad that there is at least SOME representation of great thinkers amongst our leader-class
I mean, he might yet? What someone does now is not their permanent lot in life.
The specific background of Mr Lee is that he was the Senior Wrangler at Cambridge University (essentially, the top mathematics student in the UK), and was a very promising mathematician who instead chose the family business of running Singapore.
It's not a bad business. Senior ministers in Singapore are paid multi-million dollar salaries. According to Transparency International, Singapore is one of the least corrupt countries. I'd guess that's because there's no need for side hustles because the job pays so well.
> According to Transparency International, Singapore is one of the least corrupt countries.
This is not a pervasive opinion. The prime minister has directly sued personally anyone who attempts to investigate the state wealth fund and there is a lot of questioning about the motives and conflicts of interest among Singapore's ministers and their families.
The lack of free press, and that it is illegal to investigate these government activities, is worth noting as well.
This is not a pervasive opinion. The prime minister has directly sued personally anyone who attempts to investigate the state wealth fund and there is a lot of questioning about the motives and conflicts of interest among Singapore's ministers and their families.
The lack of free press, and that it is illegal to investigate these government activities, is worth noting as well.
> According to Transparency International, Singapore is one of the least corrupt countries.
Note this ranking is based on "perception of corruption". Given that Singapore is a one-party state with extremely little press independence (https://theindependent.sg/singapore-in-bottom-20-countries-i...), citizens would be less likely to hear of any major corruption that occurred as the media wouldn't report it.
As an example, PM Lee's wife was CEO of Temasek, the national investment company, for many years. Consider, of all the five million plus people in Singapore, what is the probability that the prime minister's wife just happens to be the most qualified of anybody in the country to manage the country's money?
Note this ranking is based on "perception of corruption". Given that Singapore is a one-party state with extremely little press independence (https://theindependent.sg/singapore-in-bottom-20-countries-i...), citizens would be less likely to hear of any major corruption that occurred as the media wouldn't report it.
As an example, PM Lee's wife was CEO of Temasek, the national investment company, for many years. Consider, of all the five million plus people in Singapore, what is the probability that the prime minister's wife just happens to be the most qualified of anybody in the country to manage the country's money?
> Consider, of all the five million plus people in Singapore, what is the probability that the prime minister's wife just happens to be the most qualified of anybody in the country to manage the country's money?
She somehow also finds the time to make hundreds of Facebook posts a day: https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/g33rvv/how_is_ho...
She somehow also finds the time to make hundreds of Facebook posts a day: https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/g33rvv/how_is_ho...
Yup.
I spent some time there and I honestly believe that corruption is probably on par or better than other developed countries. They take it very seriously.
However, as you mentioned, if there was corruption, you’d probably never know. With the libel laws and control of the media, I doubt many would be willing to speak out.
Singapore’s system has worked so far, but all it takes is some corruption within for the whole system to rot to its core. It’s not setup to self-correct. It seems like a well oiled machine on the surface but that’s just because you’re not allowed to see all the warts.
I spent some time there and I honestly believe that corruption is probably on par or better than other developed countries. They take it very seriously.
However, as you mentioned, if there was corruption, you’d probably never know. With the libel laws and control of the media, I doubt many would be willing to speak out.
Singapore’s system has worked so far, but all it takes is some corruption within for the whole system to rot to its core. It’s not setup to self-correct. It seems like a well oiled machine on the surface but that’s just because you’re not allowed to see all the warts.
He probably married within his social circle of the Singapore intellectual elite whose members certainly have a much higher chance to reach such a position than the average joe in the country. I don't know anything about this gentleman but I don't think it's enough of an argument to accuse him of corruption.
> He probably married within his social circle of the Singapore intellectual elite whose members certainly have a much higher chance to reach such a position than the average joe in the country.
Probably irrelevant, but I wanted to add that Ho Ching is his second wife. The first Mrs Lee died three weeks after giving birth to his first son [1].
[1] https://wiki.sg/index.php?title=Death_of_Wong_Ming_Yang_(198...
Probably irrelevant, but I wanted to add that Ho Ching is his second wife. The first Mrs Lee died three weeks after giving birth to his first son [1].
[1] https://wiki.sg/index.php?title=Death_of_Wong_Ming_Yang_(198...
For all of its many other issues, one thing clear is that Singapore is one of the few countries where being a public servant is a reputable and highly regarded career. It was described to me that Singapore inherited both from both the British public service and the imperial Chinese civil service systems - which have diminished or fallen apart in both of those countries and others which inherited them.
> For all of its many other issues, one thing clear is that Singapore is one of the few countries where being a public servant is a reputable and highly regarded career.
Singaporean here. It's mostly "reputable and highly regarded" if one gets a top-tier government scholarship [1], since that leads to civil service postings with more exposure and chances to take credit.
Everyone else is just a "farmer" [2][3]. :)
[1] https://www.quora.com/Are-scholarship-holders-more-likely-to...
[2] https://www.mycarforum.com/forums/topic/2675951-lousy-schola...
[3] https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/7p5unh/degree_ho...
Singaporean here. It's mostly "reputable and highly regarded" if one gets a top-tier government scholarship [1], since that leads to civil service postings with more exposure and chances to take credit.
Everyone else is just a "farmer" [2][3]. :)
[1] https://www.quora.com/Are-scholarship-holders-more-likely-to...
[2] https://www.mycarforum.com/forums/topic/2675951-lousy-schola...
[3] https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/7p5unh/degree_ho...
What other countries inherited the Chinese civil service system?
Does Taiwan count? I would hardly say it has diminished or fallen apart. Of course, that is only my humble opinion.
Does Taiwan count? I would hardly say it has diminished or fallen apart. Of course, that is only my humble opinion.
Taiwan is an interesting case!
It's known that the ruling power in Taiwan is descended from the Nationalist government, it's perhaps less well-known that Sun Yat-Sen was a serious political thinker who designed that government, effectively singlehandedly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Principles_of_the_People
There's a visible mix of Western (by way of America and Britain) and Chinese thought in how the Yuans are structured.
Taiwan also inherited a large and functional civil service from the Japanese occupation, this is less immediately obvious in the structure of Taiwanese government, but you can find small traces everywhere if you know what to look for.
It's known that the ruling power in Taiwan is descended from the Nationalist government, it's perhaps less well-known that Sun Yat-Sen was a serious political thinker who designed that government, effectively singlehandedly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Principles_of_the_People
There's a visible mix of Western (by way of America and Britain) and Chinese thought in how the Yuans are structured.
Taiwan also inherited a large and functional civil service from the Japanese occupation, this is less immediately obvious in the structure of Taiwanese government, but you can find small traces everywhere if you know what to look for.
UK civil service was actually modelled after Chinese one after missionaries brought news of how powerful, and well oiled Chinese bureaucratic machine was in comparison to contemporary British one.
That doesn’t stop many western CEOs from being corrupt.
From what I’ve experienced, the lack of corruption in Singapore is partly cultural and partly due to their heavy penalties for crime.
From what I’ve experienced, the lack of corruption in Singapore is partly cultural and partly due to their heavy penalties for crime.
I'm gobsmacked that Senior Wrangler is an actual thing. I thought Terry Pratchett made it up!
Part of his great talent was that of weaving together factual minutiae with fictional minutiae such that the boundaries are impossible to spot without prior knowledge!
Even if you know you have to keep your eye open for it. E.g. my personal favourite is that I 100% did not spot until it was pointed out to me that the printing dwarfs in The Truth are all named after fonts...
Even if you know you have to keep your eye open for it. E.g. my personal favourite is that I 100% did not spot until it was pointed out to me that the printing dwarfs in The Truth are all named after fonts...
The Annotated Pratchett File lists many similar references Pratchett included in his novels. In this case, it's marked as p35 of Reaper Man:
https://www.lspace.org/books/apf/reaper-man.html
https://www.lspace.org/books/apf/reaper-man.html
He also did a diploma in CS, which is now regarded as a masters degree (when he did it, there was no taught masters in CS offered by Cambridge).
His youngest son is a programmer and prominent member of the Scala community.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/haoyi-li-3b3291182?originalSubdo...
https://www.linkedin.com/in/haoyi-li-3b3291182?originalSubdo...
And his middle one is ex-Google, and is now in the Singapore equivalent of US Digital Service/Government Digital Service:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hongyi-li-16183230
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hongyi-li-16183230
Wel gee, sorry that I was hired by a molecular neurobiology research group where all my colleages were at least PhD level biologists and that I didn't manage to catch up to their level in the two years that my contract lasted, dad. At least they appreciated me enough to give me sixth co-authorship on a paper published in Cell, even though I don't understand three-quarters of it. You want to complain that I'm not an Olympiad heart surgeon too?
/s, obviously, my dad is actually very proud of me.
edit: this attempt at a sarcastic jab pissed some people off I guess. My point was that sure, the critique that issue of "people who understand one thing think they understand everything" applies disproportionately to programmers (and STEM people in general), but trying to defend against that by acting smugly superior about your own domain of expertise isn't going to fix that, that just makes you a problem on the other side of the coin.
/s, obviously, my dad is actually very proud of me.
edit: this attempt at a sarcastic jab pissed some people off I guess. My point was that sure, the critique that issue of "people who understand one thing think they understand everything" applies disproportionately to programmers (and STEM people in general), but trying to defend against that by acting smugly superior about your own domain of expertise isn't going to fix that, that just makes you a problem on the other side of the coin.
You probably know where this is headed, but, still: https://xkcd.com/435/
I did but the link is still very welcome :). While we're here we might as well add this complementary SMBC classic: https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2556
> I do not know the specific background of Mr Lee, but the thing I always tell myself is that you can teach programming to a microbiologist, but not microbiology to a programmer.
I don't know if microbiology is special in some sense, but I have witnessed several times during my career cases of programmers turned into domain experts(in Logistics for example).
Obviously you don't became an MD that way, if that was your point.
I don't know if microbiology is special in some sense, but I have witnessed several times during my career cases of programmers turned into domain experts(in Logistics for example).
Obviously you don't became an MD that way, if that was your point.
Yes, Wall Street (high finance) also has many people (traders & quants & risk controllers) who do not have financial engineering degrees, yet deeply understand the field as practitioners. Some common "alternative" degrees: economics, mathematics, physics, chemistry, microbiology, computer science/engineering. The previous generation was even less specialised -- many had liberal arts degrees!
When I was young, I thought that anybody could learn programming. I was horribly, horribly wrong.
I thought this when I was younger too. Now I hate seeing the meme "code is the easy part". There are, of course, other hard parts too but to trivialize coding is silly.
For the most part, code is, indeed, easy. For you or for me. But some people just can't. I've stopped trying to understand, and just accept is as a fact.
For me, it was “money for nothing”, best job in the world because it was also my hobby. Not everyone is that way. Easy as breathing for some, completely incomprehensible alternate dimension of reality for others.
Code is easy, the math is hard.
For many mathematicians code is hard, math is easy.
How do you distinguish between "can be taught" and "cares to be taught"?
Plenty of people still live in a world where coding is low prestige.
Plenty of people still live in a world where coding is low prestige.
People who have very low paying jobs and very unhappy about it, they know programmers earn well ("high prestige", in your words), and they try. But for some reason, they just fail and they can't to anything about it. I've seen it many times, when diligent dedicated people just can't.
A major hurdle I found as a beginner in programming was the lack of immediate reward. I was studying Automate the
Boring Stuff as my first text, and it took around six months of slow but steady studying to understand and retain the first of two parts of the book.
The material was about the fundamentals of programming (loops, lists, dictionaries). I found it hard to stay focused because the applications and usefulness of the concepts weren’t immediately obvious (any problem I could solve at that point could easily be solved better with a ‘no-code’ solution). Some of the concepts also took a few days to understand, while I was struggling with maintaining motivation.
I’ve since used other learning materials, and now I better understand why new programming courses nowadays (like Harvard’s CS50) like to start their courses with the Scratch language. It communicates earlier the usefulness of the fundamentals (e.g. using if and while statements to animate a cartoon character).
This lack of immediate useful application (until months of study later) might not be the only reason, but it may well be a major one. It can cause people to give up even if they are diligent and dedicated in other fields (where the rewards arrive earlier).
The material was about the fundamentals of programming (loops, lists, dictionaries). I found it hard to stay focused because the applications and usefulness of the concepts weren’t immediately obvious (any problem I could solve at that point could easily be solved better with a ‘no-code’ solution). Some of the concepts also took a few days to understand, while I was struggling with maintaining motivation.
I’ve since used other learning materials, and now I better understand why new programming courses nowadays (like Harvard’s CS50) like to start their courses with the Scratch language. It communicates earlier the usefulness of the fundamentals (e.g. using if and while statements to animate a cartoon character).
This lack of immediate useful application (until months of study later) might not be the only reason, but it may well be a major one. It can cause people to give up even if they are diligent and dedicated in other fields (where the rewards arrive earlier).
> I found it hard to stay focused because the applications and usefulness of the concepts weren’t immediately obvious
Yep, I had that experience with electronics, but I applied the lesson you’re pointing to - you need to have practical projects that are relevant to you (that you care about), and then learn by working through problems and concepts as they present themselves on the road to solutions. I guess that makes me a hands-on learner, though I appreciate the conceptual once I have enough practical exposure to provide context.
Yep, I had that experience with electronics, but I applied the lesson you’re pointing to - you need to have practical projects that are relevant to you (that you care about), and then learn by working through problems and concepts as they present themselves on the road to solutions. I guess that makes me a hands-on learner, though I appreciate the conceptual once I have enough practical exposure to provide context.
I concur.
I tried to learn language like C, python... but could never make any progress. However, ironically I made serveral scripts for botting in MMORPG that I played. I could spend days perfecting and running them. It was the shorterm reward for botting in games that kept me going. Meanwhile learning to code is like walking to a destination that you don't know when you are going to reach. It feel like a chore and mentally challenging.
Maybe they are not diligent or dedicated enough? Have you really met anyone who wanted to actually put effort into something, had no barriers (lack of money / family support / etc) and didn't manage to do it?
For me the answer is I've only seen it where there is an absurdly narrow selection process: professional sports (all of them), admission to certain universities (Ivy League/Oxbridge), certain specific jobs (SEAL team, investment banks, etc).
For everything where there's no gatekeeper, I'd only count out very few people from the start.
For me the answer is I've only seen it where there is an absurdly narrow selection process: professional sports (all of them), admission to certain universities (Ivy League/Oxbridge), certain specific jobs (SEAL team, investment banks, etc).
For everything where there's no gatekeeper, I'd only count out very few people from the start.
I also thought anyone could learn to code at at least a basic level, until I worked for a year as a computer science instructor, including for the big intro class for freshmen. Some people's brains just aren't wired for it. (And this was a self-selected group in a positive sense; I would expect a random set of the population to do worse.)
[deleted]
Aren't students the ultimate "I'll do it if it's easy" group of people? They have to balance their learning with their new found freedom to socialize.
You asked for anecdotal evidence against this belief of yours and you got it. What do you want now?
It's not anecdotal that it's hard to be a professional sportsperson, or get into an Ivy League college. You want links?
I don't think we're communicating. You asked:
Have you really met anyone who wanted to actually put effort into something, had no barriers (lack of money / family support / etc) and didn't manage to do it?
And got in reply: I also thought anyone could learn to code at at least a basic level, until I worked for a year as a computer science instructor...
You then produced a no-true-Scotsman argument to the effect that students don't qualify as a counterexample.
And got in reply: I also thought anyone could learn to code at at least a basic level, until I worked for a year as a computer science instructor...
You then produced a no-true-Scotsman argument to the effect that students don't qualify as a counterexample.
All I'm asking for is for some kind of confirmation that he thought the kids were actually trying hard, which we all know (without documentation, yes) isn't universally true of students.
It's also often true that instructors don't know what's going on in all the students' personal lives. People who are pressed in other ways don't always make it known, so you could easily see how you might mistake someone who didn't learn it with someone who couldn't learn it.
It's also often true that instructors don't know what's going on in all the students' personal lives. People who are pressed in other ways don't always make it known, so you could easily see how you might mistake someone who didn't learn it with someone who couldn't learn it.
I have and i have spent a lot of time trying to help people understand it with no luck. I wouldn't count them out from the start but eventually it seems they will be happier not trying to write programs
[deleted]
I'm glad this realization exists. When I was in school, I quickly realized that most of my peers - the ones that came with me from an associate's degree course in IT, more sysadmin stuff - just couldn't keep up with software development, they didn't have the knack for it.
Why can't you teach microbiology to a programmer?
You absolutely can (an example includes programmers who decide to work in computational biology and learn more biology from textbooks to better understand the job).
However, there is a substantial barrier for a programmer to switch careers and become a microbiologist: access to lab equipment. Part of the job of a microbiologist is to work with (usually expensive) scientific equipment to carry out and design procedures for experiments, and it’s hard to study independently without owning a lab space or the equipment. I’ve also found less educational material for self-study online.
Contrast this with self-study in programming. The required equipment is also just a low-end computer, and you don’t need a laboratory environment to develop your skillset. Educational resources (e.g. Automate the Boring Stuff With Python) are also not only widely accessible, but often free.
However, there is a substantial barrier for a programmer to switch careers and become a microbiologist: access to lab equipment. Part of the job of a microbiologist is to work with (usually expensive) scientific equipment to carry out and design procedures for experiments, and it’s hard to study independently without owning a lab space or the equipment. I’ve also found less educational material for self-study online.
Contrast this with self-study in programming. The required equipment is also just a low-end computer, and you don’t need a laboratory environment to develop your skillset. Educational resources (e.g. Automate the Boring Stuff With Python) are also not only widely accessible, but often free.
What I have heard from them is that it requires "wet lab experience" to really learn it. Not sure how true it is.
If you were to ask me, programmers can't learn it because what they are learning is based on complete misunderstanding of organic chemistry (which has not been updated with the modern understanding of physics)... so it is bound to drive anyone who tries to make sense of it crazy. The only way to learn it is to accept all the rules and ALL the exceptions to the rules as the foundation and go from there, which not a lot of people are willing to do.
If you were to ask me, programmers can't learn it because what they are learning is based on complete misunderstanding of organic chemistry (which has not been updated with the modern understanding of physics)... so it is bound to drive anyone who tries to make sense of it crazy. The only way to learn it is to accept all the rules and ALL the exceptions to the rules as the foundation and go from there, which not a lot of people are willing to do.
> what they are learning is based on complete misunderstanding of organic chemistry (which has not been updated with the modern understanding of physics)... so it is bound to drive anyone who tries to make sense of it crazy
This sounds like an extraordinary claim, especially since organic chemists work along physical chemists and chemical physicists who presumably have a strong modern understanding of physics. It would be better for an expert to chime in, but I don’t see the incentive where organic chemists would be content to let their field stay out-of-date.
This sounds like an extraordinary claim, especially since organic chemists work along physical chemists and chemical physicists who presumably have a strong modern understanding of physics. It would be better for an expert to chime in, but I don’t see the incentive where organic chemists would be content to let their field stay out-of-date.
If you think those who study microbiology study it with quantum chemistry of organic compounds as a foundation, you would be very wrong. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying it is way more uncommon than you'd think. Ask around your network and find out for yourself.
It looks like I may have parsed your comment in an unintended way. I read it as, roughly: 'To learn microbiology, a programmer must learn organic chemistry as a prerequisite [true for the university I attended]. However, the concepts to study organic chemistry are based on an outdated view of physics, which is why they have so many rules and exceptions.'
I believe that any good organic chemist must have strength in physical chemistry (both to excel in the field, plus it's typically a degree requirement), and physical chemists are well-informed of quantum mechanics (also typically a degree requirement, with at least an introduction to QM in most introductory chemistry courses in the unit about atomic bonding).
However, it's more plausible to believe the claim (re-interpreted) that many microbiologists don't have a strong foundation in organic chemistry or modern physics. Still, I'm skeptical that those who make it to a tenured professorship can still have these weaknesses, as I'm under the impression that the field is cross-disciplinary with collaborations with biochemists, who can then bring in their stronger background in chemistry (and thus organic chemistry, physical chemistry, and physics). Leading microbiologists (e.g. those tenured at MIT and other top institutions) who influence the field should also have familiarity with these subjects.
I believe that any good organic chemist must have strength in physical chemistry (both to excel in the field, plus it's typically a degree requirement), and physical chemists are well-informed of quantum mechanics (also typically a degree requirement, with at least an introduction to QM in most introductory chemistry courses in the unit about atomic bonding).
However, it's more plausible to believe the claim (re-interpreted) that many microbiologists don't have a strong foundation in organic chemistry or modern physics. Still, I'm skeptical that those who make it to a tenured professorship can still have these weaknesses, as I'm under the impression that the field is cross-disciplinary with collaborations with biochemists, who can then bring in their stronger background in chemistry (and thus organic chemistry, physical chemistry, and physics). Leading microbiologists (e.g. those tenured at MIT and other top institutions) who influence the field should also have familiarity with these subjects.
o_m(2)
Alternative view:
A) any microbiologist may eventually need to learn very basic coding to do their job/tasks effectively;
B) a programmer likely won’t be interested in learning even basic microbiology unless hired by microbiologists.
A) any microbiologist may eventually need to learn very basic coding to do their job/tasks effectively;
B) a programmer likely won’t be interested in learning even basic microbiology unless hired by microbiologists.
I don’t think B) is necessarily true.
I’m a software engineer/programmer by profession and schooling, but I have a life-long fascination with little critters, especially insects, and especially Apocrita and Lepidoptera among insects. I’m an avid participant on iNaturalist and have almost as much reputation on Biology StackExchange as on StackOverflow. I also enjoyed proofreading oncology papers for my brother in law when he was doing his PhD because that stuff is fascinating when you have somebody who can explain it to you.
I’m not spending more effort in biology or entomology mainly for three reasons:
1. lack of time, especially since getting married and having kids;
2. lack of mental energy partly due to kids, partly because I’m tired enough fighting inane requirements or some stupid half-assed TypeScript “framework” du jour every day at work;
3. I’m not confident I can make as much money in entomology as in I.T.
Lack of interest has never been one of the reasons for me.
I’m a software engineer/programmer by profession and schooling, but I have a life-long fascination with little critters, especially insects, and especially Apocrita and Lepidoptera among insects. I’m an avid participant on iNaturalist and have almost as much reputation on Biology StackExchange as on StackOverflow. I also enjoyed proofreading oncology papers for my brother in law when he was doing his PhD because that stuff is fascinating when you have somebody who can explain it to you.
I’m not spending more effort in biology or entomology mainly for three reasons:
1. lack of time, especially since getting married and having kids;
2. lack of mental energy partly due to kids, partly because I’m tired enough fighting inane requirements or some stupid half-assed TypeScript “framework” du jour every day at work;
3. I’m not confident I can make as much money in entomology as in I.T.
Lack of interest has never been one of the reasons for me.
Well sure, there’s always a few whose random area of interest might land on microbiology. Most career developers I know are autodidactic obsessives who have no trouble finding fascinating rabbit holes to crawl down. Then life advances, gates close, time gets constrained and you have to pick your passions in life because you can’t do them all.
I tried to use the word “likely” to avoid these points being perceived as absolute laws. I think it’s simply less likely that any random programmer will have motivation to learn microbiology than it is for a microbiologist to learn some programming techniques.
The microbiologist may be compelled by functional requirements for their job to learn some coding while the programmer, unless working on business problems in that domain, would never be professionally compelled to learn microbiology to reinforce their profession aims.
I tried to use the word “likely” to avoid these points being perceived as absolute laws. I think it’s simply less likely that any random programmer will have motivation to learn microbiology than it is for a microbiologist to learn some programming techniques.
The microbiologist may be compelled by functional requirements for their job to learn some coding while the programmer, unless working on business problems in that domain, would never be professionally compelled to learn microbiology to reinforce their profession aims.
Everyone says that about their field, though.
In the telco industry I've heard several people say "I think it's easier for someone used to circuit switched to learn packet switched than the other way around". Every single time I heard that was from someone who knew circuit switched, and did not have one single clue about how packet switching worked, but thought they did.
If it's your field it's very easy to see people come in and think they've learned it when they haven't.
I've seen it in mathematicians, too. They very often think they can program when they can't.
Or in other words: You can teach a programmer to be a microbiologist to the point where I will believe they're a microbiologist. But I am not one.
And same with programming, except you'll only convince the microbiologist that you succeeded.
In the telco industry I've heard several people say "I think it's easier for someone used to circuit switched to learn packet switched than the other way around". Every single time I heard that was from someone who knew circuit switched, and did not have one single clue about how packet switching worked, but thought they did.
If it's your field it's very easy to see people come in and think they've learned it when they haven't.
I've seen it in mathematicians, too. They very often think they can program when they can't.
Or in other words: You can teach a programmer to be a microbiologist to the point where I will believe they're a microbiologist. But I am not one.
And same with programming, except you'll only convince the microbiologist that you succeeded.
On the other hand you can teach finance to a programmer but I had a really hard time teaching finance people to code.
How much of that is because programming is easier, and how much because for programming there are plenty of free resources (books, tutorials, documentation, etc.) while other disciplines are much more hermetic?
Uh, okay. People like John Carmack (programmer) have proven you wrong.
Interesting.
Programming yes, Software Development no- imho there is a huge difference between writing compiling code and writing maintainable code and/or designing stable and resiliant systems.
Just as you can run any program on any machine given enough time and resources (memory), anyone not lacking intellectual ability can learn anything - some quicker, some slower.
While I agree that everyone CAN learn anything, it doesn't mean they want to. Motivation is a big factor.
And when it comes to software development, the actual writing code part of it, I'm confident you need to have a knack for it.
Mind you, there's plenty of jobs in software engineering that don't involve writing code. We're desperately looking for a manager for example, because our current "self-managing" team is far from effective.
And when it comes to software development, the actual writing code part of it, I'm confident you need to have a knack for it.
Mind you, there's plenty of jobs in software engineering that don't involve writing code. We're desperately looking for a manager for example, because our current "self-managing" team is far from effective.
The intellectual part maybe but not the praxis. Some confidence, some unwillingness to stop searching for causes, some taste foe elegance, some ability to simulate things in the abstract space of solutions. The combination is as elusive to some as perceiving the mood of a room is to others.
What makes you think that?
What makes you think otherwise? Some people's brains are wired differently?
Yes my understanding is that different people's brains can be wired very differently. Roughly speaking, many areas of the brain require specific stimulus during puberty in order to develop a particular way.
> I do not know the specific background of Mr Lee, but the thing I always tell myself is that you can teach programming to a microbiologist, but not microbiology to a programmer.
You can’t teach height.
You can’t teach height.
Are you agreeing and saying that learning some skills, like your height, comes from innate genetic wiring
- or -
Are are you saying that height is something you can't teach and of course anyone can learn microbiology?
- or -
Are are you saying that height is something you can't teach and of course anyone can learn microbiology?
my university made other hard sciences a prerequisite to a computer science degree so I feel like I learned that topic well enough
I see utility in focusing on interdisciplinary skills
I see utility in focusing on interdisciplinary skills
I think it's because programming is not that much of a stretch to the brain if you've done any mathematics and are literate. The brain is used to combining structures through words to create sentences and programming runs along that same path (just more strictly).
Where are the 6 test cases? I only see one on the leetcode page, but I might be missing something.
He doesn't place braces around single statement conditional/loop bodies. Would not vote for him. While pretty unexpected from a politician, he did graduate in Maths & CS at Trinity College. Senior Wrangler, no less.
If it's good enough for K&R it's good enough for me. And yes, I do sleep with my copy of "The C Programming Language" (Second Edition) under my pillow. ;)
> While pretty unexpected from a politician
I would say in the past this was unexpected. We cannot build a better future with bureaucrats and lawyers as it was proven several times. I am hoping that going forward means we have more practical politicians who actually have understanding of different domains outside of law and politics.
I would say in the past this was unexpected. We cannot build a better future with bureaucrats and lawyers as it was proven several times. I am hoping that going forward means we have more practical politicians who actually have understanding of different domains outside of law and politics.
Also, Angela Merkel, while not a computer scientist, was a physicist and quantum chemist.
Margaret Thatcher was also a chemist.
Senior Wrangler is genuinely impressive.
I have it on good authority that Boris Johnson was viva'd at the end of his classics degree – implying he was on the first/2:1 boundary – and graduated with a 2:1.
I have it on good authority that Boris Johnson was viva'd at the end of his classics degree – implying he was on the first/2:1 boundary – and graduated with a 2:1.
I would not vote for him because the last for loop has unnecessary braces
And is he using space or tabs?
It seems to be spaces so I wouldn't try to actively sabotage his campaign
[deleted]
He is a very boring PM, and lacking ambition of his father. Singapore under him is in "maintenance only mode."
Is that necessarily a bad thing? Admitting I don't know much about Singapore.
>He is a very boring PM
We could do with boring in the UK right now.
We could do with boring in the UK right now.
Is that a bad thing?
I would say it's a good thing when the size of ambitions matches the size of ones mouth.
He certainly inherited the size of the mouth of his father, and tried to imitate his tirades heavily 12 years ago when I lived there, but so far nothing really came out of it.
Sing in last 12 years: losing vestiges of its industry, and getting more, and more reliant on mainland money.
He certainly inherited the size of the mouth of his father, and tried to imitate his tirades heavily 12 years ago when I lived there, but so far nothing really came out of it.
Sing in last 12 years: losing vestiges of its industry, and getting more, and more reliant on mainland money.
What would be an alternative path for Singapore look like?
Not sure what it will look like, it's what leaders are for.
I would say 1 thing: Singapore is probably the only country in the world which actively tries to reduce population of millionaires, and rich 6 digit salary making expats on the populist notion that this tiny population which pays for itself n-fold in taxes is "stealing Singaporean jobs."
I would say 1 thing: Singapore is probably the only country in the world which actively tries to reduce population of millionaires, and rich 6 digit salary making expats on the populist notion that this tiny population which pays for itself n-fold in taxes is "stealing Singaporean jobs."
Meanwhile I'm sure Olaf Scholz don't know even how to write an email.
Don't get me wrong but I think that's one of the reasons why Singapore is one of the fastest growing countries in the world.
> Don’t get me wrong but I think that’s one of the reasons why Singapore is one of the fastest growing countries in the world.
It’s not. (Unless you have a really expansive view of “one of”.)
Whether you mean population or economy.
It’s not. (Unless you have a really expansive view of “one of”.)
Whether you mean population or economy.
Fastest growing is always a BS stat.
Can you expand on that?
Fastest growing really just means newest. Take the statement "fastest growing social media service" for example. If Facebook has 3 billion subscribers and manages to get another two billion that grew 67%. If I start a new service with myself as the only member and then convince 100 of my friends and family to join it grew 10,000%. Now I am the fastest growing social media service, until someone starts a new one that is.
That and the tax heaven.
/s
/s
Sorry for being That Guy, but the word is "haven" [1], Google defines it [2] as "a place of safety or refuge".
As a Scandinavian, the idea of someone being "safe" from taxes is ... alien, to say the least. :)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven
[2] https://www.google.com/search?q=haven+dictionary
As a Scandinavian, the idea of someone being "safe" from taxes is ... alien, to say the least. :)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven
[2] https://www.google.com/search?q=haven+dictionary
Singapore is as much of a tax heaven as Hong Kong is. When you live there, it's not.
Now if you re a chronically over spending under budgeted country and look at Singapore you're like "how can they be so rich with so little tax, they re robbing us", but that may hide a few things you could try on your side.
Now if you re a chronically over spending under budgeted country and look at Singapore you're like "how can they be so rich with so little tax, they re robbing us", but that may hide a few things you could try on your side.
Does it really matter for 99% of us who are just working class people.
If Singapore can be a tax heaven and the profits are distributed more in the public sector i'm all for it.
"Race to the bottom" tax policy is only really good for multinational corporations.
Its a race to the bottom sure, but if it isn't you there are many others that will deliver the Tax Haven service.
You take taxes away from other countries where the profits would be distributed - and where the actual companies operate.
The US (multiple of your states) is more a tax haven than Singapore. By far.
Lee Hsien is a smart dude. But the success of Singapore is due to non-religous legal framework. Compare this with Malaysia which formed at the same time but it is too poor due to religious policy.
I wonder if India would have been more non-relgious it too would have become hugely successful. Although relatively its better compared to Pakistan which is too religious than India.
Looks like Islamic nations work great under a monarch rather than democracy.
I wonder if India would have been more non-relgious it too would have become hugely successful. Although relatively its better compared to Pakistan which is too religious than India.
Looks like Islamic nations work great under a monarch rather than democracy.
Off the top of my head, I only recall one other example: COBOL on Wheelchair [0], a web micro-framework for GNU COBOL, written by Adrian Zandberg [1], a Polish MP.
[0]: https://github.com/azac/cobol-on-wheelchair
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zandberg