Show HN: Veganize any recipe site with EatKind Chrome extension(chrome.google.com)
chrome.google.com
Show HN: Veganize any recipe site with EatKind Chrome extension
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/eatkind-for-chrome/ngojbbddpmckcgficlhojjcabamifdmi
121 comments
My wife and I are both vegan.
We got this book as a Christmas gift: https://www.amazon.com/Vegan-Everybody-Foolproof-Plant-Based...
It does a great job at the beginning of the book addressing various substitutes for things like eggs, mayo, etc... Since it's done by America's Test Kitchen, they've tested everything extensively, and explain which subs are the best for baking, flavor, and other factors.
We got this book as a Christmas gift: https://www.amazon.com/Vegan-Everybody-Foolproof-Plant-Based...
It does a great job at the beginning of the book addressing various substitutes for things like eggs, mayo, etc... Since it's done by America's Test Kitchen, they've tested everything extensively, and explain which subs are the best for baking, flavor, and other factors.
This was the first (of many) vegan cookbooks I've collected over the years and to this day is still the one I reach for the most, very well thought out.
I keep seeing this recommended. How interesting is this book if you already own a big amount of vegan cookbooks?
We own several vegan cookbooks as well, and have been leaning on this one pretty heavily since we got it. Everything has been quite tasty, albeit slightly labor intensive.
Since it's produced by America's Test Kitchen, I'm more inclined to trust the recipes at face value with little modification. Other vegan cookbooks I have found require adjustments to get the flavor correct.
Since it's produced by America's Test Kitchen, I'm more inclined to trust the recipes at face value with little modification. Other vegan cookbooks I have found require adjustments to get the flavor correct.
I've not read this particular cookbook, but anything from America's Test Kitchen is generally leaps and bounds ahead of any other cookbook you've ever read. They use a lot more cooking theory and testing methodology, compared to "grandmas old recipe" or similar old wives tales.
The flip is like any analytical process, the results vary based on the scope.
You really need to watch the show, as the sometimes they make assumptions that don’t make sense to me that drive the whole process. That isn’t captured in cookbooks. They get the best output based on the criteria set.
You really need to watch the show, as the sometimes they make assumptions that don’t make sense to me that drive the whole process. That isn’t captured in cookbooks. They get the best output based on the criteria set.
If one of the books you have is the veganomicon, I don't think you need another cookbook.
Thanks for the book recommendation. It looks interesting. Does this book lean towards processed or whole foods meals?
Totally buying this. Thank you very much.
As someone who’s been allergic to eggs their entire lives, and tried every egg substitute under the sun, I find that the best course of action in replacing eggs in a recipe is simply finding a recipe that was developed without eggs, rather than do direct substitutions.
I like to think I’m a pretty good cook and okay baker and understand different egg substitutes and where and when to implement them based on the function of eggs in the recipe, but 99% of the time I’m left eating a sweet that turned out like total garbage.
But following recipes that are egg free from the start makes it more like 75% of the time it turns out great!
I like to think I’m a pretty good cook and okay baker and understand different egg substitutes and where and when to implement them based on the function of eggs in the recipe, but 99% of the time I’m left eating a sweet that turned out like total garbage.
But following recipes that are egg free from the start makes it more like 75% of the time it turns out great!
I'm allergic to chicken eggs, but I've found that other birds don't bother me. Have you had any success trying duck or quail eggs? Aside from being tough to find sometimes, they work very well to replace chicken eggs.
On the plant based side, I've had pretty good luck with Just Eggs for a lot of things; it's not perfect (won't work for a custard) but works pretty well for a lot of baking.
On the plant based side, I've had pretty good luck with Just Eggs for a lot of things; it's not perfect (won't work for a custard) but works pretty well for a lot of baking.
I read about people with egg allergies tolerating duck eggs and immediately ran to an Amish market that carried them and excitedly ate just a few grams of the resulting scrambled eggs and spent the night vomiting and developing a full body rash.
I’ve been tempted to try quail eggs, as the same Amish market has them as well. But besides being worried of suffering a similar fate as the duck eggs, or in a cruel twist of fate, I can tolerate quail eggs and am forever forced to use many tens of these mini eggs when following a recipe or making an omelette!
Just egg was such a great experience, I actually teared up when I ate my first bacon, ‘egg’ and cheese bagel. Such a cool product.
I’ve been tempted to try quail eggs, as the same Amish market has them as well. But besides being worried of suffering a similar fate as the duck eggs, or in a cruel twist of fate, I can tolerate quail eggs and am forever forced to use many tens of these mini eggs when following a recipe or making an omelette!
Just egg was such a great experience, I actually teared up when I ate my first bacon, ‘egg’ and cheese bagel. Such a cool product.
Interesting. Would love to include feedback from users into the recommendations based on recipe types.
This would be a great feature! There’s many great cooks and bakers out there who might have these sorts of odd, situational substitutions down to a science.
I also like the extension, I’ve been trying to cut out more animal-based products and I’m excited to try it out. I look forward to seeing how it will continue to develop!
I also like the extension, I’ve been trying to cut out more animal-based products and I’m excited to try it out. I look forward to seeing how it will continue to develop!
Thank you for your feedback!
We do plan on introducing chef tips and user-generated reviews of veganized recipes.
Currently the substitutes aren't specific to cooking style or type of food. It's tricky but not impossible. And we are on it!
Brand recommendations are important too. But maybe with user feedback and applicability. Most transitioning vegans don't know which cheese melts and which milk works best with coffee. And I think that's how our recommendations should evolve.
We do plan on introducing chef tips and user-generated reviews of veganized recipes.
Currently the substitutes aren't specific to cooking style or type of food. It's tricky but not impossible. And we are on it!
Brand recommendations are important too. But maybe with user feedback and applicability. Most transitioning vegans don't know which cheese melts and which milk works best with coffee. And I think that's how our recommendations should evolve.
This is what I have observed as well. It substitute the brand instead of the alternative itself.
Rather than substituting vegan alternatives in traditional meat meals (like mushroom burger instead of hamburger) I'd personally rather be exposed to more great vegan/vegetarian recipes that were intended to be vegan/vegetarian by the cultures that have great veggy dishes like in South Asia.
One way I've gotten more exposed already is watching Rick Stein shows on Amazon like Far Eastern Odyssey and India. Before watching that I thought things like curries were too hard or annoying to make. On the contrary his simple approaches made it clear some of these spicy veggy dishes are the easiest and tastiest to make with whatever veggies you have laying around.
One way I've gotten more exposed already is watching Rick Stein shows on Amazon like Far Eastern Odyssey and India. Before watching that I thought things like curries were too hard or annoying to make. On the contrary his simple approaches made it clear some of these spicy veggy dishes are the easiest and tastiest to make with whatever veggies you have laying around.
Completely agree with this. I find it really annoying when friends switch over and then their diet becomes McPlants, pizzas and ready meals with meat substitutes in them and any mention of something new ends up with a shrivelled up face. Philistines the lot of them. I mean they’re not terrible but there’s so much other good food out there that doesn’t look exactly like what you were eating before.
I think becoming a more adventurous eater and becoming a more plant-based eater are orthogonal life choices.
Nowadays it's perfectly reasonable for people to eat more plant-based dishes without giving up too many of the flavors and textures and general structures of the meals that they were used to. That's a good thing, not a bad thing, assuming you agree with the philosophy that getting people to eat more plants is better for the environment.
Challenging people to eat dishes that are very different from what they grew up with - not just in the ingredients, but in the textures and flavors and preparations - that's a different discussion altogether. In my experience a lot of people are not very interested in trying dishes from unfamiliar cuisines, even if there is a chance they might like them. That's true whether we're talking plant-based or not.
I think for a lot of people it's easier to get them to eat more plant-based versions of the dishes they already like than to get them to experiment with dishes they're unfamiliar with.
Nowadays it's perfectly reasonable for people to eat more plant-based dishes without giving up too many of the flavors and textures and general structures of the meals that they were used to. That's a good thing, not a bad thing, assuming you agree with the philosophy that getting people to eat more plants is better for the environment.
Challenging people to eat dishes that are very different from what they grew up with - not just in the ingredients, but in the textures and flavors and preparations - that's a different discussion altogether. In my experience a lot of people are not very interested in trying dishes from unfamiliar cuisines, even if there is a chance they might like them. That's true whether we're talking plant-based or not.
I think for a lot of people it's easier to get them to eat more plant-based versions of the dishes they already like than to get them to experiment with dishes they're unfamiliar with.
What you're saying does make sense. But personally I cannot stand the taste of most substitutes I've used and I imagine many other cheese- and meat-heads would probably be as picky. My wife went vegan for a few years so I tried a number of cheeses and soy and egg things and I find them revolting, personally.
(That said, I'm becoming addicted to warm soy milk especially in the winter. It's just hard to find vendors that make homemade soy milk around here...)
BUT getting exposed to curries (I prefer Thai style rather than Indian) or paneer masala or the spicy paneer burgers in Indian McDonalds makes me feel I could easily give up meat if I was eating food this yummy.
And those spicy paneer burgers at Indian McDonalds, man they're good. I can't believe they haven't introduced them in the US. I think they'd be a massive hit. It tastes similar to spicy Chick-fil-a chicken but it's a type of cheese instead of meat.
(That said, I'm becoming addicted to warm soy milk especially in the winter. It's just hard to find vendors that make homemade soy milk around here...)
BUT getting exposed to curries (I prefer Thai style rather than Indian) or paneer masala or the spicy paneer burgers in Indian McDonalds makes me feel I could easily give up meat if I was eating food this yummy.
And those spicy paneer burgers at Indian McDonalds, man they're good. I can't believe they haven't introduced them in the US. I think they'd be a massive hit. It tastes similar to spicy Chick-fil-a chicken but it's a type of cheese instead of meat.
I agree that there are a lot of delicious curries, but personally I've really struggled to introduce spicier dishes to people with - for want of a better word - very bland palates. There is definitely a type of person for whom just salt and pepper is considered "spicy" and there is a huge resistance from them to try anything more "exotic" than that. This isn't just limited to Americans and Canadians either, you will find people like this in Latin America, Africa and Europe too. I'm not sure if it's genetic or cultural, but it is a strong preference. For these people, even a mediocre fake meat burger might hit the spot better than a curry.
I am fascinated by which foreign dishes end up becoming popular in different countries. For example, one of the most popular dishes in China is 番茄炒蛋 tomato and egg rice, which has the ingredients prepared in exactly the way most Europeans and Americans are familiar with, yet you rarely if ever find that same dish at Chinese restaurants in Europe or the US.
Incidentally, if you like paneer burgers, you might also enjoy haloumi burgers, which are a similar dish quite popular in Europe.
I am fascinated by which foreign dishes end up becoming popular in different countries. For example, one of the most popular dishes in China is 番茄炒蛋 tomato and egg rice, which has the ingredients prepared in exactly the way most Europeans and Americans are familiar with, yet you rarely if ever find that same dish at Chinese restaurants in Europe or the US.
Incidentally, if you like paneer burgers, you might also enjoy haloumi burgers, which are a similar dish quite popular in Europe.
Yeah I do know what you mean. I still try to introduce people to the spicier things when I can.
But I don't think it even needs to be spicy to be good. Korean banchan dishes are mostly sesame oil, garlic and maybe vinegar or soy sauce and they make so many vegetables taste so amazing. We've been making a spinach banchan the last few weeks and it's just so tasty.
Also, I only recently realized that baked brocolli (to the point it's crispy) with a bit of oil and salt is the best vegetable I've ever tasted. It tastes like a healthier version of a good chip.
> Incidentally, if you like paneer burgers, you might also enjoy haloumi burgers, which are a similar dish quite popular in Europe.
Ooo I'm curious to try it. But while some people compare haloumi and paneer I think haloumi is waayy saltier and can be eaten easily on its own by frying it (honey on top optionally). Whereas paneer tastes like tofu on its own to me, completely tasteless. I imagine the haloumi burger would be very salty.
But I don't think it even needs to be spicy to be good. Korean banchan dishes are mostly sesame oil, garlic and maybe vinegar or soy sauce and they make so many vegetables taste so amazing. We've been making a spinach banchan the last few weeks and it's just so tasty.
Also, I only recently realized that baked brocolli (to the point it's crispy) with a bit of oil and salt is the best vegetable I've ever tasted. It tastes like a healthier version of a good chip.
> Incidentally, if you like paneer burgers, you might also enjoy haloumi burgers, which are a similar dish quite popular in Europe.
Ooo I'm curious to try it. But while some people compare haloumi and paneer I think haloumi is waayy saltier and can be eaten easily on its own by frying it (honey on top optionally). Whereas paneer tastes like tofu on its own to me, completely tasteless. I imagine the haloumi burger would be very salty.
It's not just meat that is animal-derived. There's egg, milk, cheese, whipped cream, cream cheese. And without using substitutes/alternatives cooking a truly vegan meal becomes a challenge. Even for vegetarian dishes like cupcakes, veg pizza or veg pasta cannot be made without the animal-derived ingredients. Even the McDonalds spicy paneer burgers use paneer, mayo, butter.
I am from India. And most people here can't have meals without ghee, or tea/coffee without milk.
I am from India. And most people here can't have meals without ghee, or tea/coffee without milk.
True. It isn't my goal at the moment to be vegan but just to eat _less_ meat and animal products.
Thank you! This was the whole concept behind EatKind. To get people to easily switch a plant-based diet without having to change what they eat on a daily basis. This is especially difficulty when usually it's one person in a household that decides to eat vegan and the rest of the family isn't ready to make a shift in their meals.
> I find it really annoying when friends switch over and then their diet becomes McPlants, pizzas and ready meals
And then they quit and warn others against trying it because it made them "feel like shit." Not realizing it wasn't the lack of meat and cheese, but rather eating a bunch of processed garbage.
And then they quit and warn others against trying it because it made them "feel like shit." Not realizing it wasn't the lack of meat and cheese, but rather eating a bunch of processed garbage.
Yeah seen that too. Six years here and I’m walking and running 50k a week without a problem. More energy than I’ve ever had.
I actually just ate home made vegetable paella and chocolate cake for dinner.
I actually just ate home made vegetable paella and chocolate cake for dinner.
In the long run you are right, in the short run the various fake/substitute foods and ingredients are good intermediate steps to a vegetarian/vegan diet.
I think the bridge many aspiring vegans/vegetarians find hard to cross is finding really 'hearty' foods that don't have to taste like a steak but give you a similar experience (or feeling?) So the easiest first step is the substitute products.
I think the bridge many aspiring vegans/vegetarians find hard to cross is finding really 'hearty' foods that don't have to taste like a steak but give you a similar experience (or feeling?) So the easiest first step is the substitute products.
FWIW, some things that you think of as necessarily dairy-forward have just become that way through modern culture. Pizza, for example, used to commonly have no cheese, and still is somewhat common without cheese in Italy (Pizza Marinara from Naples, for example).
I'm no huge advocate of vegan "cheese" and "meatloaf", but vegan pizza can be perfectly normal and traditional.
I'm no huge advocate of vegan "cheese" and "meatloaf", but vegan pizza can be perfectly normal and traditional.
Yeah, "tomato pie" is common in places with a lot of transplants from that part of Italy as well, especially places with old school Catholics who didn't eat any animal/dairy products during lent (Philly, NYC and the surrounding NJ suburbs to name a few). I grew up eating the stuff. I've since tried vegan pizza with fake cheese, from a place with great vegan sandwiches, and it's not worth it compared to a pizza with no cheese. When I make focaccia, I toss some pizza sauce on top before throwing it in the oven and it's amazing.
Yup. I come from a culture (Ukrainian) that, due to religious reasons (even though no one is particularly religious nowadays), has a bunch of traditional, vegan lenten dishes. When you expand to all the traditional (ie. Orthodox) Christian communities, plus Buddhist communities, there's a massive range of traditional tried and true vegan foods out there.
As a vegan who used to enjoy eating meat, sometimes I just want some meaty food without the dead animal, and fake meat like an impossible burger solves this for me. But also so does tofu and tempeh.
Agreed. Not sure if the vegan replacements have the same properties (fattiness, moisture, etc.) that the recipe expects, and many vegan dishes from South/Southeast Asia and so on are delicious.
Vegan replacements work slightly differently. I think tips on how to substitute from brands and chefs are what's important to build trust in using these alternatives in recipes. We are working on introducing chef tips, will also try including tips from brands themselves.
I'm not a vegan. I love lions mane "crab" cakes and king oyster "scallops". I hear you can also smoke king oyster to make pulled "pork". Not exact replacements, but definitely some interesting and delicious recipes out there for mushrooms.
I've had some excellent "pulled pork" made out of jackfruit. The consistency is similarly chewy/stringy, and if you are looking for American-style BBQ flavor then a lot of that flavor comes from the sauce anyway, so it's pretty easy to sub out the meat. When I lived in a country where it was trivial to buy fresh jackfruit, I just sliced it and threw it into a stir fry and it worked pretty good as a meaty consistency in those too.
One thing I still haven't found is a good plant-based version of carnitas, which is a sort of pulled pork from Mexico where they crisp up the top of it as well as have it swimming in lard. I think you could probably get somewhere close to it by using toasted pepitas (pumpkin seed) or something to get the crispy aspect, but to nail all the textures and flavors you'd be getting into a big time-consuming exercise for home cooking. Although, to be fair, I'd never cook meat carnitas at home either due to the time requirement.
One thing I still haven't found is a good plant-based version of carnitas, which is a sort of pulled pork from Mexico where they crisp up the top of it as well as have it swimming in lard. I think you could probably get somewhere close to it by using toasted pepitas (pumpkin seed) or something to get the crispy aspect, but to nail all the textures and flavors you'd be getting into a big time-consuming exercise for home cooking. Although, to be fair, I'd never cook meat carnitas at home either due to the time requirement.
There's a tasty jackfruit carnitas recipe in the cookbook, "La Vida Verde". You may need to work on an improved method to make them crispy...perhaps adding a final step of putting the skillet under a broiler.
You can also use jackfruit to substitute pulled pork
This addon indeed seems more like an affiliate link pipeline entry.
Although this does seem like product promotion, we don't provide affiliate links (just takes you to Google). We don't at this point make money off product purchases.
Having said that - I also don't like this perception of the product. We will be adding more natural substitutes such as jackfruit or mushroom, so you're not driven away by what may seem too promotional.
Having said that - I also don't like this perception of the product. We will be adding more natural substitutes such as jackfruit or mushroom, so you're not driven away by what may seem too promotional.
That sounds a lot more promising, best of luck!
It's not bad to make money. It's good to make money providing a service that helps people.
Thank you for the feedback!
What would be great for us to do is to create a feed of recipes (both vegan and non-vegan recipes) that need minimal (may be just cream or milk) to no replacements. This way people could discover a variety of recipes from across the globe than to be confined to a few recipe blogs.
What would be great for us to do is to create a feed of recipes (both vegan and non-vegan recipes) that need minimal (may be just cream or milk) to no replacements. This way people could discover a variety of recipes from across the globe than to be confined to a few recipe blogs.
> […] by the cultures that have great veggy dishes like in South Asia.
Or any country really. A good vegetarian lasagne doesn't mean replacing ground meat with a non-meat substitute; you'd want a different recipe.
Or any country really. A good vegetarian lasagne doesn't mean replacing ground meat with a non-meat substitute; you'd want a different recipe.
> Or any country really.
Ha, really? What are some iconic German or Kazakh vegan dishes? I'd say the opposite is true, most countries have no vegan main dishes.
Ha, really? What are some iconic German or Kazakh vegan dishes? I'd say the opposite is true, most countries have no vegan main dishes.
Can't speak for Kazakhstan, but Germany and surrounding countries have sauerkraut, pretzels, beer, cider, wine, french fries, dumplings, pumpernickel and many other breads and brötchen, apple sauce, veges like asparagus and kohlrabi, desserts with rhubarb, red currants, berries... Certainly most meals are meat- and dairy-forward, but it's not like there is nothing else in the cuisine.
You'll note I specifically talked about main dishes. Yes, of course, every country will have some food that just happens to be vegan. But only a few countries and regions of the world have actual cuisines and main meals which are vegan.
I'm not sure what your point is? The issue is if someone can continue eating the food of their own region or culture while also following a more plant-based diet. In all but the most arid and inhospitable parts of the world, there are already a fair amount of local plant-based dishes.
It's true that people may need to supplement their diets with some kind of substitute that provides a similar nutritional content to meat and dairy, or add alternative dishes from outside their region, but for the most part it shouldn't be all that difficult for most people from most parts of the world to eat plant-based without fully changing up their entire diet.
It's true that people may need to supplement their diets with some kind of substitute that provides a similar nutritional content to meat and dairy, or add alternative dishes from outside their region, but for the most part it shouldn't be all that difficult for most people from most parts of the world to eat plant-based without fully changing up their entire diet.
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Strongly agree with this.
I do not understand vegans who eat "imitation" meats. If you are ethically opposed to the slaughter of animals, why are you OK with pretending that you are still slaughtering them by actively buying things called "chik'n" and the like? That seems extremely perverse to me: 'I don't want to actually eat animals, but I want to pretend like I do'. Seriously, what?
I do not understand vegans who eat "imitation" meats. If you are ethically opposed to the slaughter of animals, why are you OK with pretending that you are still slaughtering them by actively buying things called "chik'n" and the like? That seems extremely perverse to me: 'I don't want to actually eat animals, but I want to pretend like I do'. Seriously, what?
> I do not understand vegans who eat "imitation" meats. If you are ethically opposed to the slaughter of animals, why are you OK with pretending that you are still slaughtering them by actively buying things called "chik'n" and the like? That is perverse.
I'm a (25+ years) vegan who eats "imitation" meats.
Here's why ...
I like how they taste.
I'm a (25+ years) vegan who eats "imitation" meats.
Here's why ...
I like how they taste.
And you genuinely see nothing ethically questionable with supporting products which pretend that they are made from animals?
They don't pretend they're made from animals. The labelling is quite clear that they are plant-based. What they do is mimic the form factor of animal-based foods. And generally that is just a sausage shape, or ground up stuff. There's no imitation T-bone steak AFAIK. If we all transformed into vegans tomorrow, I don't see why we wouldn't be allowed to eat items in a hotdog or hamburger form factor.
> They don't pretend they're made from animals.
Food and brand names like "chick'n" "mock duck" by their very titles literally pretend they're made from animals.
> don't see why we wouldn't be allowed to eat items in a hotdog or hamburger form factor.
The problem isn't the shape, whether it is a burger or sausage, the problem is the attempted replication. We should be moving away from the concept that it is OK to eat, or to pretend to eat, animals, not reinforcing this perverse belief. Vegan foods should, and do, stand on their own.
Food and brand names like "chick'n" "mock duck" by their very titles literally pretend they're made from animals.
> don't see why we wouldn't be allowed to eat items in a hotdog or hamburger form factor.
The problem isn't the shape, whether it is a burger or sausage, the problem is the attempted replication. We should be moving away from the concept that it is OK to eat, or to pretend to eat, animals, not reinforcing this perverse belief. Vegan foods should, and do, stand on their own.
That's just a branding gimmick, isn't it? I don't think anybody is fooled (or if they are then it's unobservant meat-eaters, not vegans).
If I can try to summarize your opinion (tell me where I'm wrong), it sounds like the crux of your issue is that it's not just the action of eating meat that's bad, it's also the idea of eating meat and the rituals associated with eating meat. In other words, if someone eats a "tofurky" for Thanksgiving, they're engaging in something similar to eating meat, which reinforces the norm that eating meat is an acceptable thing, or suggests that there is a genuine (superior) non-plant-based version of the facsimile you're eating. The objection isn't purely "you could be eating tastier stuff", you think the end goal of more widespread veganism is actually undermined by the existence of meat substitutes.
If I can try to summarize your opinion (tell me where I'm wrong), it sounds like the crux of your issue is that it's not just the action of eating meat that's bad, it's also the idea of eating meat and the rituals associated with eating meat. In other words, if someone eats a "tofurky" for Thanksgiving, they're engaging in something similar to eating meat, which reinforces the norm that eating meat is an acceptable thing, or suggests that there is a genuine (superior) non-plant-based version of the facsimile you're eating. The objection isn't purely "you could be eating tastier stuff", you think the end goal of more widespread veganism is actually undermined by the existence of meat substitutes.
> if someone eats a "tofurky" for Thanksgiving, they're engaging in something similar to eating meat, which reinforces the norm that eating meat is an acceptable thing, or suggests that there is a genuine (superior) non-plant-based version of the facsimile you're eating. The objection isn't purely "you could be eating tastier stuff", you think the end goal of more widespread veganism is actually undermined by the existence of meat substitutes.
Yes, that's an excellent summary of my thinking! Thank you for helping me articulate it.
I don't think people are literally fooled by fake meat, but I just believe we should be moving away from the concept of eating meat imitations to eating vegan dishes which do not attempt to replicate animal products, but stand on their own, because ultimately the notion that we are still replicating flavors and concepts around meat I find very sad. Specifically, it is upsetting to me that people still view animal consumption as desirable, if objectionable. It is deeply upsetting to me any time I hear other vegan friends say 'man, I wish I could have a burger' or 'that bacon smells soooo good', because this still perpetuates the desire to consume meat.
Yes, that's an excellent summary of my thinking! Thank you for helping me articulate it.
I don't think people are literally fooled by fake meat, but I just believe we should be moving away from the concept of eating meat imitations to eating vegan dishes which do not attempt to replicate animal products, but stand on their own, because ultimately the notion that we are still replicating flavors and concepts around meat I find very sad. Specifically, it is upsetting to me that people still view animal consumption as desirable, if objectionable. It is deeply upsetting to me any time I hear other vegan friends say 'man, I wish I could have a burger' or 'that bacon smells soooo good', because this still perpetuates the desire to consume meat.
I'm a meat eater. Let's say I want to significantly reduce my meat consumption. I'm used to eating meals that are meat centric. Growing up most dinners would be a meat, a starch, and some vegetables. The easiest way for me to reduce my meat consumption would be to replace the meat with something else. Should I replace my chicken with mushrooms, tempeh, tofu, something else? How firm should the tofu be? What's the deal with pressing your tofu? Maybe I'll just stick to chicken. If you want to encourage me to stop eating animals giving me an easy, clear substitution, like chick'n, seems like a reasonable thing to do. Would you prefer people ate chicken or chick'n? Would you say the two are morally equivalent? Would I be a horrible person if I said I won't eat animals anymore because it's unethical while still viewing them as very tasty?
Indeed, and thinking that
> the end goal of more widespread veganism is actually undermined by the existence of meat substitutes
as the GP says and OP agrees with, does not make any sense because offering a substitute that allows more meat eaters to ease into vegan eating can (from a vegan point of view) be a strictly morally superior action over meat eaters continuing to eat meat.
> the end goal of more widespread veganism is actually undermined by the existence of meat substitutes
as the GP says and OP agrees with, does not make any sense because offering a substitute that allows more meat eaters to ease into vegan eating can (from a vegan point of view) be a strictly morally superior action over meat eaters continuing to eat meat.
It's an interesting perspective, I have to acknowledge. I'm viewing it from an extreme outside position (I literally kill and eat wild animals as a hobby), but an interesting comparison I can see might be to cannibalism. There's nothing practically wrong with making a facsimile human leg out of pork, calling it "I can't believe it's not human flesh", and selling it in a grocery store...but I mean, most people would find it distasteful and upsetting. They're not engaging in cannibalism of course, but the ritual of cannibalism, the idea of cannibalism, is unsettling in its own right to most people. If someone said "man, I wish I could eat people" unironically, I might not want to attend their next barbecue.
Your view seems perfectly consistent to me -- if you believe killing animals is morally equivalent to killing humans, then meat eating could be considered morally equivalent to cannibalism. Even fake human leg is still creepy to such a non-cannibal -- even fake turkey thus may be creepy to a vegan.
Perhaps it's because of the variety of reasons people are vegans -- many aren't truly abstaining from eating animal meat because they think it's wrong. Some are vegan for health reasons, or for environmental reasons, or because it's fashionable in their social tribe, or because they vaguely agree with anti-animal-eating philosophy but still internalize contradictory opinions. I know multiple adventurous vegans who would be ok eating roadkill deer if I served it to them (from their perspective, it does not contradict their belief that killing animals for meat is wrong -- it died in an accident, after all). But they would have a different opinion if I served them roadkill human, even if I showed them the human's death was purely accidental.
Your view seems perfectly consistent to me -- if you believe killing animals is morally equivalent to killing humans, then meat eating could be considered morally equivalent to cannibalism. Even fake human leg is still creepy to such a non-cannibal -- even fake turkey thus may be creepy to a vegan.
Perhaps it's because of the variety of reasons people are vegans -- many aren't truly abstaining from eating animal meat because they think it's wrong. Some are vegan for health reasons, or for environmental reasons, or because it's fashionable in their social tribe, or because they vaguely agree with anti-animal-eating philosophy but still internalize contradictory opinions. I know multiple adventurous vegans who would be ok eating roadkill deer if I served it to them (from their perspective, it does not contradict their belief that killing animals for meat is wrong -- it died in an accident, after all). But they would have a different opinion if I served them roadkill human, even if I showed them the human's death was purely accidental.
That reminds me of another cruelty-free animal product: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eignblunzn
A blood sausage made from human blood. Nothing wrong with it ethically, but upsetting enough for performance art.
A blood sausage made from human blood. Nothing wrong with it ethically, but upsetting enough for performance art.
> And you genuinely see nothing ethically questionable with supporting products which pretend that they are made from animals?
No, I don't. Honestly, I don't even understand how someone could. As others have noted, this is just branding. No one is being fooled, and the idea that eating "mock duck" somehow normalizes eating actual duck seems pretty unlikely to me.
No, I don't. Honestly, I don't even understand how someone could. As others have noted, this is just branding. No one is being fooled, and the idea that eating "mock duck" somehow normalizes eating actual duck seems pretty unlikely to me.
What exactly is the moral dilemma here? The products are not made from animals, so what's the problem? I don't understand why if they just pretend to be made from animals that that would make them morally questionable.
You'd similarly not see any issues with human meat substitutes being sold at your local grocery store? Curious how that's not a thing, huh?
No I wouldn't, because there's no human meat actually involved. If a store sold something they say tastes like human, but doesn't actually contain human parts or harm humans in any way, then there's no moral dilemma, I'd buy that substitute and eat it just fine.
You're ignoring my point. Why is imitation human meat not an acceptable thing, but imitation animal meat is?
It is acceptable, where did anyone say it wasn't?
Please show me one grocery store where you can buy imitation human meat. Or ten strangers on the street who'd be OK with it compared to those who'd be OK with imitation animal meat. It is absolutely not acceptable.
The reason we don't have it is not due to morality, it's due to not needing to since we have other foods. And either way it's not actual human flesh, it's simply a substitute. You could make the argument that anything could be a human meat substitute, since animal meat is not much different from human meat, and as such, animal meat substitutes would also be human meat substitutes.
Are you really confused why people want to continue eating the food they've eaten their whole lives minus the animal suffering?
The food wasn't the problem, the suffering was.
The food wasn't the problem, the suffering was.
Veganism is not about suffering (if it were about suffering, suffering-free animal consumption would be acceptable, and it is not) , it is about a rejection of the commodification and exploitation of nonhuman species. Fake meats partake in that commodification, albeit as an imitation.
Veganism is about many things in different ratios for different people. I don't think you get to decide why people are vegan and why they aren't.
Can you give an example of suffering-free animal consumption?
Can you give an example of suffering-free animal consumption?
> Veganism is about many things in different ratios for different people. I don't think you get to decide why people are vegan and why they aren't
If everyone gets to decide on the meaning of a concept to them personally, then that concept loses meaning. I'm using an almost textbook definition.
> Can you give an example of suffering-free animal consumption?
Sure, harvesting honey which has fallen off a honeycomb beneath a tree.
If everyone gets to decide on the meaning of a concept to them personally, then that concept loses meaning. I'm using an almost textbook definition.
> Can you give an example of suffering-free animal consumption?
Sure, harvesting honey which has fallen off a honeycomb beneath a tree.
> harvesting honey which has fallen off a honeycomb beneath a tree
I never had this opportunity, but I don't see an ethical problem here. As a more realistic example (in my environment), I suggest dumpster diving. I think it would be okay, ethically, but I would not do it because it grosses me out in a way that vegan substitutes don't, and that feeling is not related to the dumpster part.
I may have to do some more introspection, but I honestly don't think, that my acceptance of vegan substitutes is based on a desire to harm animals.
I never had this opportunity, but I don't see an ethical problem here. As a more realistic example (in my environment), I suggest dumpster diving. I think it would be okay, ethically, but I would not do it because it grosses me out in a way that vegan substitutes don't, and that feeling is not related to the dumpster part.
I may have to do some more introspection, but I honestly don't think, that my acceptance of vegan substitutes is based on a desire to harm animals.
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Interesting view point. But by that logic - you shouldn't use contraceptives if you're against having babies. Or kill people on video games if you're against murder. It's not like vegans imagine killing animals while eating fake meat. They are just taking care of their taste buds. In fact nobody thinks of animals when they eat. If people did, more people would eat less meat. And that's why all meat should look exactly like the animals they come from. And not random shapes that they are made into.
My point is that veganism is an ideology and a philosophy, it's not just a lifestyle choice. Not eating or otherwise using animal products does not make someone a vegan--it's a necessary prerequisite, of course, but not the sole requirement. Actively fighting against animal exploitation is at the very core of veganism. Supporting and reinforcing a culture which normalizes animal consumption, or the imitation thereof, actively fights against this cause. We should be working to highlight how fucked up it is that people want to pretend to eat animals, because they 'taste good', not reinforcing the view that it's OK to do so.
", or the imitation thereof," is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this ideology.
Because people like the taste of meat and at the same time don't want to hurt animals. They also want to maybe cook the same kind of food but without animals. What's wrong in that?
The fact that veganism is not about solely harming animals, it is a philosophy which encompasses a wholesale rejection of animal subjugation; this includes suffering yes, but it also includes commodification and exploitation en masse. It is ethically extremely questionable to claim that you support animals, but to want to pretend to eat them.
This doesn’t “veganize” recipes at all — it takes a recipe URL, searches for non-vegan ingredients, and then spits out affiliate links to common vegan substitutes. Critically, it does not convert the recipe you submit to a vegan one. The “AI-based” marketing language, the affiliate links, the use of an extension … this feels a lot like spam to me.
1. All the products are created, and not searched on the internet.
2. We don't do affiliate links. It just does a simple Google search today. To monetise in the future - we'll either provide cart integration with vegan speciality stores or build our marketplace. But that's in the future.
3. The AI is behind understanding the ingredients, the relationships between them and the alternatives (which may not seem too obvious or evident). And also in evolving the recommendations based on user feedback (in the future).
4. You can use EatKind without the extension - eatkind.co
5. I'll take your point and feedback on not actually converting the recipes. We'll soon provide instructions/chef tips on substituting, along with the products that can be used.
Hello,
I'm the Founder & CEO at EatKind. This is my first post on HN, and I'm looking for feedback on our latest Chrome extension.
We launched EatKind – https://eatkind.co around 6 months back to help anyone eat less meat, eggs and dairy. EatKind can veganize ANY recipe, dish or ingredient by providing plant-based alternatives to use in place of animal-derived ingredients.
And we just launched this Chrome extension to make it all the more easier for users to veganize a meal. All you have to do is install the extension, and visit any recipe site!
EatKind works in the US, UK and India today. We are looking to add support to more countries soon.
Some of our upcoming features are: being able to favourite your recipes, create a shopping list, integration with online vegan stores.
If you're looking to cut down your meat or dairy consumption or transitioning to a plant-based diet - we would love to hear from you.
I'm the Founder & CEO at EatKind. This is my first post on HN, and I'm looking for feedback on our latest Chrome extension.
We launched EatKind – https://eatkind.co around 6 months back to help anyone eat less meat, eggs and dairy. EatKind can veganize ANY recipe, dish or ingredient by providing plant-based alternatives to use in place of animal-derived ingredients.
And we just launched this Chrome extension to make it all the more easier for users to veganize a meal. All you have to do is install the extension, and visit any recipe site!
EatKind works in the US, UK and India today. We are looking to add support to more countries soon.
Some of our upcoming features are: being able to favourite your recipes, create a shopping list, integration with online vegan stores.
If you're looking to cut down your meat or dairy consumption or transitioning to a plant-based diet - we would love to hear from you.
Curious, why does this need to be a browser extension?
I'm interested in the concept here, but the use of a browser extension just seems like a vector to do nefarious things.
I'm interested in the concept here, but the use of a browser extension just seems like a vector to do nefarious things.
You don't need this extension. You can use the search box on eatkind.co. No sign-in required.
The extension makes it simpler to see the whole recipe along with the instructions and video while you may need recommendations or suggestions to vegnaize it.
The extension makes it simpler to see the whole recipe along with the instructions and video while you may need recommendations or suggestions to vegnaize it.
I will not install an extension that is not open source.
I understand your concern. And will consider open sourcing the extension code. You can also use EatKind on https://eatkind.co
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I like the idea, but as other commenters have already pointed out, it only recommends brand name items, which is a bummer (off-the-shelf vegan substitutes are generally very expensive).
It would be great if there also was a section "DYI", with the different types of replacements offered (thinking of eggs, specifically, which are always a pain to replace without messing up). A partnership with some vegan recipe websites to offer alternative battle-tested recipes would also be a great addition, because in my experience veganizing recipes without careful and repeated experimentation often ends in disappointment, particularly for cakes or pastries.
It would be great if there also was a section "DYI", with the different types of replacements offered (thinking of eggs, specifically, which are always a pain to replace without messing up). A partnership with some vegan recipe websites to offer alternative battle-tested recipes would also be a great addition, because in my experience veganizing recipes without careful and repeated experimentation often ends in disappointment, particularly for cakes or pastries.
We do provide recommendations with more natural ingredients such as jackfruit, flax seeds, coconut oil, etc. But they are currently lost in the huge list of brand recommendations. Will bump those up.
Thank you for these suggestions! Very valuable.
Thank you for these suggestions! Very valuable.
Based on the title I was thinking the product was different.
The "veganize" term is misleading here imho.
I was expecting that, given a recipe, you replace non-vegan ingredients with vegan ingredients and so being able to cook that recipe, somehow.
Actually it would be a very nice product...
That's what it is. You can also try it here: https://eatkind.co
I expected to start from a recipe and then have the veganized recipe.
How it works now is a Google search, so I have to find another recipe, if there is. I would skip the Google part and start from a recipe URL and have as a result that specific recipe veganized (ingredients replacement).
It would also prevent people from leaving the website.
If you already have a recipe in mind (eg: https://www.errenskitchen.com/homemade-dark-chocolate-puddin...) and want to veganize it, you can:
1. Install the chrome extension and visit the recipe website. This will show you the recommendations against each ingredient on the recipe site itself - In the ingredients section of the recipe, it will highlight the non-vegan ingredients. Or on click on the EatKind icon on the toolbar. See short video here: https://youtu.be/bAXdUqqlSvc
(OR)
2. Copy recipe URL and paste in the search box in eatkind.co - this will show you all the ingredients that aren't vegan, along with alternatives - https://eatkind.co/?q=https:%2F%2Fwww.errenskitchen.com%2Fho...
To veganize a dish (eg: "bangers and mash") - you can type in the dish name in the search box and get recommendations for recipes you can veganize. - https://eatkind.co/?q=bangers%20and%20mash
1. Install the chrome extension and visit the recipe website. This will show you the recommendations against each ingredient on the recipe site itself - In the ingredients section of the recipe, it will highlight the non-vegan ingredients. Or on click on the EatKind icon on the toolbar. See short video here: https://youtu.be/bAXdUqqlSvc
(OR)
2. Copy recipe URL and paste in the search box in eatkind.co - this will show you all the ingredients that aren't vegan, along with alternatives - https://eatkind.co/?q=https:%2F%2Fwww.errenskitchen.com%2Fho...
To veganize a dish (eg: "bangers and mash") - you can type in the dish name in the search box and get recommendations for recipes you can veganize. - https://eatkind.co/?q=bangers%20and%20mash
Oh now I see. I was trying the "cheese burger" from the examples and the results were just Google with no option to veganize. I'd remove that example imho.
The cheesecake example is what I was expecting in general.
Thanks, keep up the good work.
Awesome concept, do you plan on releasing a firefox version?
Thank you!
Unfortunately, we do not have too many users who use Firefox. So probably in the distant future. But you can still use eatkind search on https://eatkind.co
Unfortunately, we do not have too many users who use Firefox. So probably in the distant future. But you can still use eatkind search on https://eatkind.co
the parent comment combined with your open source reply[0] is where open source usually shines, in my experience: a feature that is important to the community but isn't prioritized due to lack of energy available
I recognize there is some nonzero work involved in stewardship over managing PRs and issues, but hopefully it would be less net energy than EatKind having to do the legwork of porting the extension to FF (and maybe even Safari) themselves
0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195132
I recognize there is some nonzero work involved in stewardship over managing PRs and issues, but hopefully it would be less net energy than EatKind having to do the legwork of porting the extension to FF (and maybe even Safari) themselves
0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195132
Absolutely! Also, people love to contribute to projects that help the planet and do good. Will seriously consider open sourcing our client libraries.
I find the idea behind the extension good, but the name chosen is more of the usual trolling seen in online flamewars, revolving around arbitrary notions of morality based on people's particular religious/moral beliefs.
You're setting yourself up for having trolls explicitly leave negative reviews to tell you how X isnt really kind and it destroys rainforests and rats etc etc.
Is the perceived moral superiority alluded to by the plugin's name really a necessary selling point? Why not just go for a straightforward "does what it says on the tin" name like "SubstituteVegan" or "VeganizeYourRecipe" or something.
Might as well call it "AccordingToMySpiritualBeliefsYouAreAMurderousAssholeIfYouDontClickThis" while you're at it.
You're setting yourself up for having trolls explicitly leave negative reviews to tell you how X isnt really kind and it destroys rainforests and rats etc etc.
Is the perceived moral superiority alluded to by the plugin's name really a necessary selling point? Why not just go for a straightforward "does what it says on the tin" name like "SubstituteVegan" or "VeganizeYourRecipe" or something.
Might as well call it "AccordingToMySpiritualBeliefsYouAreAMurderousAssholeIfYouDontClickThis" while you're at it.
> trolls [...] negative reviews
Trolls gonna troll. That's nothing new to vegans and companies calling kind products "kind." [1][2][3]
> selling point
It is absolutely a selling point to rally kind people in this rapidly growing market together.
[1] https://veganproducts.org/vegan-box-delivery/the-vegan-kind-... [2] https://bkind.com/ [3] https://vegfaqs.com/kind-granola-bars-vegan/
> arbitrary notions of morality
Is this kind? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7hAELEBjX4
People who participate in this practice are unambiguously unkind. People who put a stop this practice are unambiguously kind and deserving of the adjective kind.
Trolls gonna troll. That's nothing new to vegans and companies calling kind products "kind." [1][2][3]
> selling point
It is absolutely a selling point to rally kind people in this rapidly growing market together.
[1] https://veganproducts.org/vegan-box-delivery/the-vegan-kind-... [2] https://bkind.com/ [3] https://vegfaqs.com/kind-granola-bars-vegan/
> arbitrary notions of morality
Is this kind? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7hAELEBjX4
People who participate in this practice are unambiguously unkind. People who put a stop this practice are unambiguously kind and deserving of the adjective kind.
> People who participate in this practice are unambiguously unkind
Existence proof: I've met kind people who work at slaughterhouses.
Existence proof: I've met kind people who work at slaughterhouses.
Disclaimer: I eat meat and dairy.
Veganism is objectively kinder towards animals, the environment, and often your own body. The rainforest argument is bullshit since something like 70 percent of soy is used for animal feed. Who cares what trolls say.
Veganism is objectively kinder towards animals, the environment, and often your own body. The rainforest argument is bullshit since something like 70 percent of soy is used for animal feed. Who cares what trolls say.
Veganism is about being kind to animals. You can argue whether or not it matters to be kind to animals, or whether it's more important to satisfy human taste buds. But I don't think it's arguable that farming animals is unkind to them, and "EatKind" is a relevant and clever name.
Haha!
I would have bought "Veganize.It" if it was available. EatKind.co is short and easy to remember. Which was important to me. Also, anyone who has decided to cut down or eliminate meat and dairy would do it some kind reason. They are my target market. Negative trollers won't really use this anyway.
I would have bought "Veganize.It" if it was available. EatKind.co is short and easy to remember. Which was important to me. Also, anyone who has decided to cut down or eliminate meat and dairy would do it some kind reason. They are my target market. Negative trollers won't really use this anyway.
Fair enough, I hope you're right!
Your heart seems in the right place and I like the cut of your jib! I wish you all the best. :)
Your heart seems in the right place and I like the cut of your jib! I wish you all the best. :)
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I’ve been a vegan for more than a quarter of a century now and just wish terms like „veganize“ would just vanish. Also, simple substitution works for simple recipes. Anything more involved than a sheet cake needs more experience than s/this/that/. And if you’re going to substitute regular products with a vegan knock-off verbatim anyway, I don’t see how this would assist in any way. Probably full of referral links.
These aren't referral links. They are a curated list of products that are available in each of our supported countries - USA, UK, India. We tried to get coverage across all categories of non-vegan ingredients as much as possible. Don't plan on ever doing affiliate links.
Being a long-term vegan this may seem easy but most people don't know of most plant-based options available to them and how easily they can make a recipe vegan. So that's the purpose - to show that to them. What is also needed is user reviews and feedback on how the products work in different recipes, so that they can make the right choice.
Being a long-term vegan this may seem easy but most people don't know of most plant-based options available to them and how easily they can make a recipe vegan. So that's the purpose - to show that to them. What is also needed is user reviews and feedback on how the products work in different recipes, so that they can make the right choice.
I would love something like this to remove sugars from recipes and replace them without ruining the overall dish.
Especially for baking.
Especially for baking.
This is very interesting. We have had similar requests for alternatives for gluten and other allergens.
This is a cool project, and I love that you're looking into other dietary restrictions! Gluten and dairy substitutes would have been very useful to me starting out, but after nearly a decade I tend to make omissions rather than substitutions. I've seen others upthread mention that they prefer to find dishes that are naturally vegan rather than use substitutes.
What I (and, possibly, they) could really use would be something that would suggest an alternative recipe or a related dish that works better without substitution-- e.g, a similar recipe that doesn't rely on the meat or cheese for flavor, or which doesn't rely heavily on bread/flour/sugar/etc. as a base ingredient.
I expect it'd be more difficult to reliably identify similar recipes AND restrict the search to avoid some set of ingredients, but it would be a very useful resource for people looking to omit certain foods without resorting to (often expensive or unhealthy) substitutes.
What I (and, possibly, they) could really use would be something that would suggest an alternative recipe or a related dish that works better without substitution-- e.g, a similar recipe that doesn't rely on the meat or cheese for flavor, or which doesn't rely heavily on bread/flour/sugar/etc. as a base ingredient.
I expect it'd be more difficult to reliably identify similar recipes AND restrict the search to avoid some set of ingredients, but it would be a very useful resource for people looking to omit certain foods without resorting to (often expensive or unhealthy) substitutes.
Food is not software. It is not that formulaic. This will never consistently produce good results.
Not all recipes call for the same substitution for the same ingredient. And not everyone has the same philosophy about how to substitute.
For instance, eggs. There are several different uses for them in recipes; binding, leavening, moisture, protein content, etc. There are several different substitutions and most do some of those things better than others. Picking a good egg substitute, or choosing to simply leave the eggs out, requires knowledge and experience, or at least a flow chart.
There's enough of an art to it that I'd rather see how others solved the problem than consult a browser plugin that seems geared more to sell me stuff than to help me solve problems.