Ask HN: Are professors smart but risk averse and that's why they want tenure?
And if so, why does society respect them so much while at the same time also respecting people who are smart and willing to take risks such as Elon Musk?
8 comments
The primary job of a tenured professor is usually research --- not teaching. Research results are how most get "tenure" to start with. Most universities don't/won't offer tenure to those who only teach. In many cases, tenured professors delegate teaching to their graduate students.
Tenure helps eliminate bias and financial influence from research. Research that people like Elon Musk rely on in order to make money.
Tenure helps eliminate bias and financial influence from research. Research that people like Elon Musk rely on in order to make money.
The primary job of any professor at a research university is fundraising.
Research output is second. Teaching a distant third.
Research output is second. Teaching a distant third.
Some research simply doesn't pay off until decades later. Quantum mechanics was useless when it was being researched, but the foundation of much of our life today, from lighting to electronics.
Risk isn't really a factor. It's just really hard work with no immediate returns.
But you need people like Musk too, who apply that knowledge. The research makes electric cars possible, but people like Musk put them on the road and in space. Two different models necessary to society.
Risk isn't really a factor. It's just really hard work with no immediate returns.
But you need people like Musk too, who apply that knowledge. The research makes electric cars possible, but people like Musk put them on the road and in space. Two different models necessary to society.
Education is a top goal of society. If you did not have professors, you would not have society as it is today.
Why is tenure so important?
You're surrounded by 20 year old blue haired angsty people who aren't dealing with their hormones. Tenure makes those profs not a target.
Why is tenure so important?
You're surrounded by 20 year old blue haired angsty people who aren't dealing with their hormones. Tenure makes those profs not a target.
I attended a R1 university, and it was up or out for professors. I think they were encouraged to either get tenure or move to another school where they would get tenure. It's no different that a private sector jobs where you are expected to get promoted to a certain point or you need to move on.
I wouldn't call them risk averse. You get paid peanuts and treated like crap for years in the hope that you'll find a research path that generates funding. It's a lot less risky to get a private sector job and make money.
As far as Elon Musk versus professors, it's a different type of risk. I knew somebody who sacrificed a lot of potential money for years of his life so he could try an contribute to research for a specific medical condition. He was brilliant and I'm sure he could have made 4X the salary in a tech job.
I wouldn't call them risk averse. You get paid peanuts and treated like crap for years in the hope that you'll find a research path that generates funding. It's a lot less risky to get a private sector job and make money.
As far as Elon Musk versus professors, it's a different type of risk. I knew somebody who sacrificed a lot of potential money for years of his life so he could try an contribute to research for a specific medical condition. He was brilliant and I'm sure he could have made 4X the salary in a tech job.
>I wouldn't call them risk averse. You get paid peanuts and treated like crap for years in the hope that you'll find a research path that generates funding. It's a lot less risky to get a private sector job and make money.
The thing you're missing is that financial stability in your 20s is not worth much, but the same is not true at 50+. Besides that, going by personal experience with my professors, it's one of those jobs where you can continue to be gainfully and meaningfully employed far older than may be achievable at a private enterprise. Plus, I imagine the work is good for an aging mind.
The thing you're missing is that financial stability in your 20s is not worth much, but the same is not true at 50+. Besides that, going by personal experience with my professors, it's one of those jobs where you can continue to be gainfully and meaningfully employed far older than may be achievable at a private enterprise. Plus, I imagine the work is good for an aging mind.
If you take the straight path of BS at 22, PhD at 27, and then add some post-doc(s), you're basically in your 30s before you earn the same as a 21 year old computer science intern. Add in any life event (taking a job for a few years after your BS, having a family, etc), that could push you into your mid-30s before you get your tenure track job.
Then you're taking a huge gamble that you are going to win the tenure track prize. Most people don't win that prize. Even if you do good work, there's plenty of stories (even on HN) of an academics career getting wrecked by one influential person.
>Plus, I imagine the work is good for an aging mind.
Yes, if you're lucky enough to sustain a research program into your 60s/70s. IME a lot of professors can't do that as younger researchers overtake them. So then your option is to take on more administrative duties, which is a lot of petty politics. Or you can just check out and ride your tenured status until retirement, which some people do - good for them, not so much for the students in their program.
As you walk that path, you've got to have a lot of faith in the future as you are constantly presented with examples of where the path you are walking on is likely to fail. I was there once and I took the hint early and left academia.
Then you're taking a huge gamble that you are going to win the tenure track prize. Most people don't win that prize. Even if you do good work, there's plenty of stories (even on HN) of an academics career getting wrecked by one influential person.
>Plus, I imagine the work is good for an aging mind.
Yes, if you're lucky enough to sustain a research program into your 60s/70s. IME a lot of professors can't do that as younger researchers overtake them. So then your option is to take on more administrative duties, which is a lot of petty politics. Or you can just check out and ride your tenured status until retirement, which some people do - good for them, not so much for the students in their program.
As you walk that path, you've got to have a lot of faith in the future as you are constantly presented with examples of where the path you are walking on is likely to fail. I was there once and I took the hint early and left academia.
Wait, society respects Elon Musk? That's news to me.