Ask HN: Should I quit my CS Masters Program?
25 comments
1.5 years will pass so quickly you won't even notice. It's true that there are a lot of self-taught people that are able to land software engineering jobs without a formal CS education. However, CS degrees are still relevant and they will make your job search easier. Software engineering jobs will still exist in 1.5 years, so there is no harm in completing your master. You can apply for internships in the meantime. If you leave your master and then in the future you decide you want to do it again. It is going to be harder studying a master while having a job.
That's what I think as well, 1.5 years in hindsight will feel like nothing. But right now it just feels nothing short of dreadful and feels like an eternity.
The thing with internships is that they are almost always full-time positions. It's just too much doing a full-time internship next to my full-time masters program unless I want to drag everything out even further.
But I guess you are right about job search, which is why I'm still >50% inclined to biting the bullet and finishing it.
The thing with internships is that they are almost always full-time positions. It's just too much doing a full-time internship next to my full-time masters program unless I want to drag everything out even further.
But I guess you are right about job search, which is why I'm still >50% inclined to biting the bullet and finishing it.
I can't judge the flexibility of your degree, but I stretched my full-time master's degree from 3 full-time to 7 part-time semesters while working part-time on IT-projects (both in an IT consultancy and the entrepreneurial center of another university) on the side (also in Germany, but a university of applied sciences instead).
I wouldn't say that's "dragging things out" like you said, I consider it more like doing a master's degree on my own terms while keeping up my motivation and passion for the field I'm in. With the previous SWE experience you mentioned it should be possible to look for a working student position fitting your interests.
I wouldn't say that's "dragging things out" like you said, I consider it more like doing a master's degree on my own terms while keeping up my motivation and passion for the field I'm in. With the previous SWE experience you mentioned it should be possible to look for a working student position fitting your interests.
I have in fact done just that: I've been a part-time student for a bunch of semesters, did an internship and a working-student job in Software Development.
Then, last October I applied for another working student position. I managed to negotiate a rather high salary for being a WS position and got the job offer -but something kept me unhappy and I could'nt put my finger on it. Then in the last second I radically changed my mind, rejected the nice offer and decided my degree feels too much of a burden in my neck that I won't be enjoying the job and will likely get too exhausted doing both. I felt I won't be making fast enough progress in any direction for my liking: Neither would I make enough money to invest on the side, nor would I finish my degree any time soon.
So I thought let me just get this thing done and over with ASAP first, then come back to the company - And that's what I told them as well (They really, REALLY wanted me badly). Since this summer I'm now studying in full-time again.
Then, last October I applied for another working student position. I managed to negotiate a rather high salary for being a WS position and got the job offer -but something kept me unhappy and I could'nt put my finger on it. Then in the last second I radically changed my mind, rejected the nice offer and decided my degree feels too much of a burden in my neck that I won't be enjoying the job and will likely get too exhausted doing both. I felt I won't be making fast enough progress in any direction for my liking: Neither would I make enough money to invest on the side, nor would I finish my degree any time soon.
So I thought let me just get this thing done and over with ASAP first, then come back to the company - And that's what I told them as well (They really, REALLY wanted me badly). Since this summer I'm now studying in full-time again.
No, you will regret it. Plus, Germans fetishizes degrees hard (or so I heard) so you will be looked down upon because M.Sc >> B.Sc.
Especially later in the career, having a master's degree might be hard requirement for some jobs in Germany.
If it's not too difficult for you, you feel like you're learning something and you can do some part time work meanwhile, go finish it.
Better now than later when you're used to a full time SWE jobs + maybe family.
If it's not too difficult for you, you feel like you're learning something and you can do some part time work meanwhile, go finish it.
Better now than later when you're used to a full time SWE jobs + maybe family.
But what would you say if I don't want to stay in Germany anyway? For example I'm thinking hard about moving to the US for my professional career.
In the English-speaking countries, not having a Master is normal (at least in software dev).
There are two reasons you might want one. I believe there's an extra cap for the H1B visa if you have a Masters. And getting a visa for a software engineering role with a non-CS degree is just a little bit harder (USCIS might issue a request for evidence on how your degree is relevant. This isn't too bad, and isn't usually an problem through.)
Personally, I wouldn't recommend the US over Germany. You may find yourself missing a lot of the things you took for granted.
Edit: And I also know quite a few people who did Masters just for having one, and hated every minute of it. It changed them. IMO, not worth it. Two years is a long time to be miserable.
There are two reasons you might want one. I believe there's an extra cap for the H1B visa if you have a Masters. And getting a visa for a software engineering role with a non-CS degree is just a little bit harder (USCIS might issue a request for evidence on how your degree is relevant. This isn't too bad, and isn't usually an problem through.)
Personally, I wouldn't recommend the US over Germany. You may find yourself missing a lot of the things you took for granted.
Edit: And I also know quite a few people who did Masters just for having one, and hated every minute of it. It changed them. IMO, not worth it. Two years is a long time to be miserable.
That's some valuable input, thanks.
May I ask what for example do you think I would be missing in the US that I'm taking for granted over here?
May I ask what for example do you think I would be missing in the US that I'm taking for granted over here?
It's a different country, with vastly different areas. If you have experienced the culture and like it, go for it. But don't come for money.
The work culture is insane, worse than Germany. You get almost no holidays.
Data protection is terrible. Your information will get leaked. Your salary and other stuff is likely available for companies to buy. You will get spam text messages and phone calls, no matter how careful you are. I never answer my phone any more.
The education system is worse, if you decide to stay and have kids (even if you don't plan to, you might meet someone).
Everything is in US units. Almost nothing is metric. It's a learning curve that - especially as an engineer - could be annoying.
Air quality and noise in cities, because of all the cars. Some states don't really have emissions testing, or even vehicle testing like the TÜV.
Healthcare can be excellent if you're in a well-paying job. But it's also tied to your job.
Just some things I can think of off the top of my head. But then again, don't let me stop you. Worst case, you could always return to Germany, or move somewhere else. The great thing about being a software developer is being in demand, and how easy it is to get visas and work (comparatively).
The work culture is insane, worse than Germany. You get almost no holidays.
Data protection is terrible. Your information will get leaked. Your salary and other stuff is likely available for companies to buy. You will get spam text messages and phone calls, no matter how careful you are. I never answer my phone any more.
The education system is worse, if you decide to stay and have kids (even if you don't plan to, you might meet someone).
Everything is in US units. Almost nothing is metric. It's a learning curve that - especially as an engineer - could be annoying.
Air quality and noise in cities, because of all the cars. Some states don't really have emissions testing, or even vehicle testing like the TÜV.
Healthcare can be excellent if you're in a well-paying job. But it's also tied to your job.
Just some things I can think of off the top of my head. But then again, don't let me stop you. Worst case, you could always return to Germany, or move somewhere else. The great thing about being a software developer is being in demand, and how easy it is to get visas and work (comparatively).
Don’t do what you dread. Some people go to academia because they dread commercial software engineering work.
If that's the case, start looking for positions and interviews now. If you get any good offers, take one and leave university.
Also an option. Maybe I should even put a threshold, like if anyone offers me a position for more than 30€/hour I drop out in favor of it.
Seems to be the same across the EU in general, bit of degree inflation
Not everywhere. No one in Poland does not care outside of first 1-2 jobs. Maybe government jobs, but you don't want to work there.
Source: not even finished bachelors.
Source: not even finished bachelors.
As it has already been said, do NOT drop out, you will regret it, and it will make any progress in your career VERY complicated.
I have done exactly what you are considering to do. I'm French, and I dropped out 6 months away from completing my Master Degree in CS (the most ridiculous part is that I had completed all the coursework shenanigans and I just had to do a 6 months internship to close the deal). It has made my job search hell, and in fact, I was never able to land a programming job, and I've been stuck in a help desk position for 6 years now.
Trust me, you don't wanna be that guy. These days, Master Degrees are the new baseline, so under no circumstances go below that.
I have done exactly what you are considering to do. I'm French, and I dropped out 6 months away from completing my Master Degree in CS (the most ridiculous part is that I had completed all the coursework shenanigans and I just had to do a 6 months internship to close the deal). It has made my job search hell, and in fact, I was never able to land a programming job, and I've been stuck in a help desk position for 6 years now.
Trust me, you don't wanna be that guy. These days, Master Degrees are the new baseline, so under no circumstances go below that.
Quite compelling input, thank you. And oof, good luck to you if you're still looking for an SWE job!
Most likely I will listen to your username :)
Most likely I will listen to your username :)
Sounds like RWTH Aachen, or similar ;).
I'm happy I finished my CS degrees. I have more depth in my software engineering skills than without. Quite often I'm encountering a problem where I can apply a bit of knowledge I only have because of my studies. And that is quite satisfying and makes me a better engineer.
I'm happy I finished my CS degrees. I have more depth in my software engineering skills than without. Quite often I'm encountering a problem where I can apply a bit of knowledge I only have because of my studies. And that is quite satisfying and makes me a better engineer.
I feel the same way towards all the foundational CS courses that I already took: The knowledge I got from them is extremely valuable and dare I say even mandatory for anyone pursuing a career in SE. However, the advanced M.Sc. courses are a lot about acrobatics which I will forget 95% of right away anyway ... that's the major reason for my uncertainty.
If you can, you should pick the ones that are most interesting to you. In many cases I think you can even pick ones that are a bit outside the official schedule, like bioinformatics, scientific computing, computational neuroscience, advanced operations research etc. and still get credits for it.
It's worth understanding well what your options are instead of following the official schedule blindly.
It's worth understanding well what your options are instead of following the official schedule blindly.
In the US I see a lot of people getting 2 years masters of engineering degrees that are intended for people to raise their level and go back to industry. Is it different in Germany?
Technically the masters here is also a 2 years degree on paper. But in reality, since it is actually very tough, it usually takes 2.5 to 3 or even more years to finish it.
For more info this gives a nice insight into german vs US universities: https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/183700/why-are-...
For more info this gives a nice insight into german vs US universities: https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/183700/why-are-...
No Germany takes academic qualifications very seriously. A conversion masters would be frowned upon, because it is just a Bachelor's level of education with the MSc. designation in front.
You should finish the masters, and meanwhile get an internship for the real world experience you crave.
Easier said than done. Internships are almost exclusively full-time positions which my masters-program itself already is. So that would drag everything out even further. Not to mention the terribly low wages for interns over here.
I dread the world of academia, I don't wanna become a researcher and really just wanna go full time into software enginnering at some reputable company and contribute to some interesting project(s).
A bit more about myself: I have gathered 2-3 years of Software Enginnering experience on the side and consider myself a junior software engineer. I think I am a decent developer, always eager to learn, and I feel I am very good at selling my skills to companies as I have a rather high application-to-job-offer-ratio so to say. I guess part of it is that I display a lot of confidence in my abilities outwardly. Moreover, I'd say I have a pretty entrepreneurial mindset. I wanna create stuff on my own but feel like I never have the money to invest in anything as I currently don't work, being a full time student.
About my performance at university: I am proud to say I never had to repeat a single exam, but I also usually don't pass with "flying colors" - I kind of always aim for a max result with min effort. And I sort of figured it out: I typically study in a very time-efficient manner and focussed on simply passing, and it always worked so far. The rest of my time I use on personal software projects that I'm 10x more excited about. The downside is I don't learn too much practical knowledge anymore at Uni. A lot of the stuff there I consider academic acrobatics that I'm not interested in.
Here is the problem though: I am and want to be a software engineer, but if I drop out now my only degree will be in electrical engineering and NOT computer science. So I fear that I will never be considered a real software engineer based on my academic title.
I have swayed back and forth multiple times and am currently kind of half-heartedly still doing my courses and everything.
Would it be a good idea to drop out? Again, I frankly hate academic life and love creating stuff NOT for university credits but for an actual purpose. What would people experienced in the field advise me to do?
Thanks a lot