SpaceX Paid $250k to a Flight Attendant Who Accused Musk of Sexual Misconduct(businessinsider.com)
businessinsider.com
SpaceX Paid $250k to a Flight Attendant Who Accused Musk of Sexual Misconduct
https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-paid-250000-to-a-flight-attendant-who-accused-elon-musk-of-sexual-misconduct-2022-5
107 comments
It's disconcerting that a Republican considers this case of shedding light on sexual/power abuse a "political attack", but it's not surprising, given recent events.
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Does it say when Insider contacted Musk?
Two hours and change before Musk tweeted that.[1]. He could possibly be anymore transparent that his tweet was an attempt to preempt this story.
[1] - https://twitter.com/johnjcook/status/1527421611070177307
[1] - https://twitter.com/johnjcook/status/1527421611070177307
Assuming he's innocent, what was a better course of action?
I'd probably do the same thing. It may have been 2 hours before this story but he's been putting out "controversial" tweets for months.
I also have someone else telling me they contacted him years ago, still waiting on that source but no idea what to believe at this point.
I'd probably do the same thing. It may have been 2 hours before this story but he's been putting out "controversial" tweets for months.
I also have someone else telling me they contacted him years ago, still waiting on that source but no idea what to believe at this point.
> what was a better course of action?
Specifically rebut the claim. Cite the Insider reaching out and disclose first. Not denying the savviness of his strategy. But it’s so corrosive to our culture… We need better.
Specifically rebut the claim. Cite the Insider reaching out and disclose first. Not denying the savviness of his strategy. But it’s so corrosive to our culture… We need better.
>Specifically rebut the claim
True, I will say that this doesn't look good. We also don't know what Insider actually even asked though.
I can agree in a perfect world, this strategy is underhanded. Let's say though that you received an email that has totally false allegations, what would the statement even read? Thankfully I've never been in such a position but I imagine I would say something similar to "there's going to be stupid stories coming out" vs "Insider is planning to publish a smear campaign against me" - which would just bring more attention to it.
Again, this is all assuming its a false allegation.
If its true, seems the best course of action would be to remain totally silent and not become the center of attention for the past few months.
True, I will say that this doesn't look good. We also don't know what Insider actually even asked though.
I can agree in a perfect world, this strategy is underhanded. Let's say though that you received an email that has totally false allegations, what would the statement even read? Thankfully I've never been in such a position but I imagine I would say something similar to "there's going to be stupid stories coming out" vs "Insider is planning to publish a smear campaign against me" - which would just bring more attention to it.
Again, this is all assuming its a false allegation.
If its true, seems the best course of action would be to remain totally silent and not become the center of attention for the past few months.
I wouldn't call it savvy. It's been entirely, nauseatingly, transparent...
"All of the allegations are false."
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1527496917579612161
Looks like he has "denied" it on twitter.
I agree he should have denied it to Business Insider _but_, without knowing what Business Insider actually asked to get that response, I'll refrain from judging the answer.
Looks like he has "denied" it on twitter.
I agree he should have denied it to Business Insider _but_, without knowing what Business Insider actually asked to get that response, I'll refrain from judging the answer.
He didn't deny the NDA and settlement. SpaceX could easily make a a statement that it didn't happen.
>He didn't deny the NDA and settlement.
That doesn't prove/disprove anything.
>SpaceX could easily make a a statement that it didn't happen
Why? They have already settled.
That doesn't prove/disprove anything.
>SpaceX could easily make a a statement that it didn't happen
Why? They have already settled.
I guess - my hypothetical response attests that every claim is false, his that at least two are are untrue - which ones and just how untrue?
>And, for the record, those wild accusations are utterly untrue
And then he rapidly goes off the rails.
>But I have a challenge to this liar who claims their friend saw me “exposed” – describe just one thing, anything at all (scars, tattoos, …) that isn’t known by the public. She won’t be able to do so, because it never happened. … Moreover, the “friend” in question who gave the interview to BI, is a far left activist/actress in LA with a major political axe to grind.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1527518555641618433
> They began brewing attacks of all kinds as soon as the Twitter acquisition was announced.
>In my 30 year career, including the entire MeToo era, there’s nothing to report, but, as soon as I say I intend to restore free speech to Twitter & vote Republican, suddenly there is …
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1527629698267615232
I mean there's at least 750 thousand reasons now to believe that there is in fact something to report and that investigative journalists are now looking into what else there may be.
> Heard has been credited with donating $1.3 million in four installments, Dougherty said. But not all of the money came directly from her: $100,000 was from Depp, and another $500,000 is from a Vanguard account the ACLU believes to be associated with Elon Musk — whom Heard dated after her breakup with Depp.
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/29/1095571524/amber-heard-aclu-d...
>And, for the record, those wild accusations are utterly untrue
And then he rapidly goes off the rails.
>But I have a challenge to this liar who claims their friend saw me “exposed” – describe just one thing, anything at all (scars, tattoos, …) that isn’t known by the public. She won’t be able to do so, because it never happened. … Moreover, the “friend” in question who gave the interview to BI, is a far left activist/actress in LA with a major political axe to grind.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1527518555641618433
> They began brewing attacks of all kinds as soon as the Twitter acquisition was announced.
>In my 30 year career, including the entire MeToo era, there’s nothing to report, but, as soon as I say I intend to restore free speech to Twitter & vote Republican, suddenly there is …
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1527629698267615232
I mean there's at least 750 thousand reasons now to believe that there is in fact something to report and that investigative journalists are now looking into what else there may be.
> Heard has been credited with donating $1.3 million in four installments, Dougherty said. But not all of the money came directly from her: $100,000 was from Depp, and another $500,000 is from a Vanguard account the ACLU believes to be associated with Elon Musk — whom Heard dated after her breakup with Depp.
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/29/1095571524/amber-heard-aclu-d...
>I mean there's at least 750 thousand reasons now to believe that there is in fact something to report and that investigative journalists are now looking into what else there may be.
People have wanted to tear him down for years. I _really_ doubt there's anything else if upon the apex of his renouncing of democrats results in nothing more than allegations and hearsay.
I could be wrong... but I just don't see it happening.
Also, I fail to see how the Amber Heard stuff comes into play...
People have wanted to tear him down for years. I _really_ doubt there's anything else if upon the apex of his renouncing of democrats results in nothing more than allegations and hearsay.
I could be wrong... but I just don't see it happening.
Also, I fail to see how the Amber Heard stuff comes into play...
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But what if the allegations are true? Is Elon beyond reproach?
I'm not implying they aren't true. Just pointing out Musk laying the groundwork to try and discredit whatever was coming.
I deeply respect the achievements he's made but have lost any for him as a person.
Maybe you can find more respect for the contributions of his workers to those achievements, than he has as an anti-labor union buster employing illegal tactics
That's not a problem. Obviously the success is only possible with the workers who actually make stuff happen.
I'm not a Musk fanboy but I recognize the power of someone with great intelligence and vision and is willing to bully to make it happen.
Case in point: there's 3 space companies run by billionaires, but only one of them is successful. I think it's his driving force that makes the difference.
It doesn't make him a good person, but it's evident that it is effective. As with Jobs, I can respect his achievements and not respect him.
I'm not a Musk fanboy but I recognize the power of someone with great intelligence and vision and is willing to bully to make it happen.
Case in point: there's 3 space companies run by billionaires, but only one of them is successful. I think it's his driving force that makes the difference.
It doesn't make him a good person, but it's evident that it is effective. As with Jobs, I can respect his achievements and not respect him.
Bill Gates was also pretty unruly, especially the 90's towards the early corporate era of Microsoft.
If allegations on Elon are true, it is unfortunate to have this stain on his rather remarkable vision for the future. We need more visionaries like Elon.
If allegations on Elon are true, it is unfortunate to have this stain on his rather remarkable vision for the future. We need more visionaries like Elon.
I was not a fan of Gates when MS was the 800 pound gorilla in tech. Embrace, extend, extinguish was deplorable.
When he started on the Gates Foundation and became a philanthropist it helped reform him in my eyes. But the latest revelations have undone much of that.
When he started on the Gates Foundation and became a philanthropist it helped reform him in my eyes. But the latest revelations have undone much of that.
I'm with you. Bill went from uncool to cool, back to uncool now.
"Reports of Bill Gates' alleged inappropriate relationships and sexual advances towards Microsoft employees…"
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/16/tech/microsoft-bill-gates-sex...
"Melinda French Gates voiced concerns about her husband’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and a harassment claim against his money manager. He also had an affair with an employee."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/business/bill-melinda-gat...
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/16/tech/microsoft-bill-gates-sex...
"Melinda French Gates voiced concerns about her husband’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and a harassment claim against his money manager. He also had an affair with an employee."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/business/bill-melinda-gat...
He's been "laying the ground work" long before this happened, not at all the first time he's taken shots at "leftists."
Insider says they contacted him 9am yesterday.
Insider says they contacted him 9am yesterday.
It states right in the article he was in contact with them, so he knew the piece was coming out before he made those claims.
- "For those interested, we reached out to the principals for comment regarding this story at ~9 a.m. eastern yesterday (Wednesday May 18)."
https://twitter.com/johnjcook/status/1527421611070177307
https://twitter.com/johnjcook/status/1527421611070177307
Legally no (in general, if there was a settlement paid then presumably it's done already), practically probably yes - he's rich.
And so the news archeologists begin digging 'artefacts' about Musk:
Submit to the current agenda or your skeletons will be dug up and shown to the world.
Submit to the current agenda or your skeletons will be dug up and shown to the world.
Both of the cited tweets were made after he was informed about the article. The journalist did not report this because of those tweets.
Not because of that one particular tweet, but probably because he dared to say things which violated their narratives.
Yes, exactly. Hence the internet archaeologists digging up anything they don't like and that the mainstream media, doing what it does best with their smearing.
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How sure are you that this isn't one of said attacks?
This story (and the degree to which it is being artificially pushed, including by being posted on HN every 3 minutes to make sure it gets seen) is well within the range of usual "dirty tricks" attacks that come out whenever someone publicly sets themselves against the democratic party.
This story (and the degree to which it is being artificially pushed, including by being posted on HN every 3 minutes to make sure it gets seen) is well within the range of usual "dirty tricks" attacks that come out whenever someone publicly sets themselves against the democratic party.
His non-denial-denial is a pretty big tip-off.
>After Insider contacted Musk for comment, he emailed to ask for more time to respond and said there is "a lot more to this story."
>"If I were inclined to engage in sexual harassment, this is unlikely to be the first time in my entire 30-year career that it comes to light," he wrote, calling the story a "politically motivated hit piece."
>Insider extended the deadline and reiterated the offer to Musk to comment on the claims. He did not respond.
>After Insider contacted Musk for comment, he emailed to ask for more time to respond and said there is "a lot more to this story."
>"If I were inclined to engage in sexual harassment, this is unlikely to be the first time in my entire 30-year career that it comes to light," he wrote, calling the story a "politically motivated hit piece."
>Insider extended the deadline and reiterated the offer to Musk to comment on the claims. He did not respond.
Just playing devil's advocate here for a second, but, if you were accused of such a thing, you knew you hadn't done it, and you knew that the newspaper offering to run your comments along with their story was part of a plot to smear you with baseless attacks, would you give them a comment for them to run knowing they would only use it if they could make you look more guilty?
I'm not saying this is what happened in Musk's case. Maybe he is guilty -- wouldn't be the first rich guy (or just, the first guy) caught doing something like this. Just saying, Musk became Enemy No 1 of the left and then almost immediately, a sexual-deviancy charge appears from long ago and is being obviously aggressively pushed across all platforms, and it'd be irresponsible not to wonder, given how often the left gets caught using this exact tactic.
I'm not saying this is what happened in Musk's case. Maybe he is guilty -- wouldn't be the first rich guy (or just, the first guy) caught doing something like this. Just saying, Musk became Enemy No 1 of the left and then almost immediately, a sexual-deviancy charge appears from long ago and is being obviously aggressively pushed across all platforms, and it'd be irresponsible not to wonder, given how often the left gets caught using this exact tactic.
I would immediately reply, "All of the allegations are false."
Possibly so. And that is a reasonable choice. That phrasing is cautious -- it is very direct and very short, and doesn't contain any descriptive text, so it's harder for an enemy to spin it in their narrative.
At least, in the 3 minutes I was willing to spend thinking about it, I couldn't dream up a way to use that quote to imply your guilt.
At least, in the 3 minutes I was willing to spend thinking about it, I couldn't dream up a way to use that quote to imply your guilt.
It's so simple when you're innocent...
When you're guilty, not so much...
I dont know all of the facts but I'm a decent speculator.
When you're guilty, not so much...
I dont know all of the facts but I'm a decent speculator.
What if some of the allegations are partially true, or there's context to the allegation that matters?
> How sure are you that this isn't one of said attacks?
I'd bet up to $1000 that it's true.
I'd bet up to $1000 that it's true.
I'd bet $1000 that it's another half true, half exaggerated "awkward nerd misreads woman and makes her uncomfortable" story.
I don't think awkward nerds prefer to be slandered by being lumped in with someone that whips out their dick and commits sexual assault.
Yeah, how can you possibly misread someone so badly that you touch her without her permission and show her your penis?
That's literally heresay. We don't know what happened.
This is the guy who has promised a girl to show her "his rocket" and then went to a hotel room with her and proceeded to show her his rocket (his ex-wife told this story). I am not sure what really happened during this flight, but let's wait for the full story, and let's be a little accommodating if it turns out his Asperger's might be the actual issue here.
People submit stories for karma, that is what they do. Let's not forget about the nonstop Hunter Biden laptop stories on social media, or back when Clinton was running about her hitlist and Qanon rhetoric. It isn't one party guilty or responsible. Republicans have this victimized cult mentality and it is sickening, when if you look at their history they are just as culpable, if not more so at times.
This is, to use one of the left's favorite terms, pure whataboutism.
As far as "victimized cult mentality" goes, I really don't think Republicans rate, really. They mostly don't participate in the victimhood-industrial complex.
As far as "victimized cult mentality" goes, I really don't think Republicans rate, really. They mostly don't participate in the victimhood-industrial complex.
Victimhood is literally their only party platform rn. Like, can you name even a single policy proposal they have that’s not waging a culture war fight?
You set that bar too low.
Republicans support a variety of policies -- different ones support different policies, but they include:
Limiting abortion.
Decreasing illegal immigration.
Increased access to firearms.
Lower taxes, especially on incomes.
The elimination of Section 230 protections for large tech platforms.
An increase in domestic energy production, with an eye towards energy self-sufficiency.
A decrease in H1 visas.
Increased school choice, through a combination of charter schools, school vouchers, and home-schooling support.
Increased policing, especially the enforcement of misdemeanor theft, vandalism, trespass, and destruction of property.
Increased enforcement of drug laws, especially pertaining to methamphetamines, heroin, and fentanyl.
A decrease in cooperation with China.
You may oppose some or all of these policy positions, but you can't reasonably claim that they aren't policy positions. I tried to give you a smattering from across different types of policy, rather than just things in the news recently.
Shouldn't need saying, but this is not my list of policy goals. I have opinions, but they're not relevant to a discussion of whether the Republican party has or has not got a platform.
Republicans support a variety of policies -- different ones support different policies, but they include:
Limiting abortion.
Decreasing illegal immigration.
Increased access to firearms.
Lower taxes, especially on incomes.
The elimination of Section 230 protections for large tech platforms.
An increase in domestic energy production, with an eye towards energy self-sufficiency.
A decrease in H1 visas.
Increased school choice, through a combination of charter schools, school vouchers, and home-schooling support.
Increased policing, especially the enforcement of misdemeanor theft, vandalism, trespass, and destruction of property.
Increased enforcement of drug laws, especially pertaining to methamphetamines, heroin, and fentanyl.
A decrease in cooperation with China.
You may oppose some or all of these policy positions, but you can't reasonably claim that they aren't policy positions. I tried to give you a smattering from across different types of policy, rather than just things in the news recently.
Shouldn't need saying, but this is not my list of policy goals. I have opinions, but they're not relevant to a discussion of whether the Republican party has or has not got a platform.
DeSantis' State of the State address had many moderate points (and a few progressive points – increasing apprenticeships, college funding, better wages for teachers, etc.): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6PIanB0DHU
> As far as "victimized cult mentality" goes, I really don't think Republicans rate, really. They mostly don't participate in the victimhood-industrial complex.
Pre-Trump, maybe. The GOP is post-Trump now. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/conservati...
Pre-Trump, maybe. The GOP is post-Trump now. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/conservati...
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This seems to match with his behavior and persona. Having worked in tech a long time, I can say that culture is always set from the top. I've worked in organizations where sexual harassment is tolerated; this is always because the CEO or founders regularly engage in it.
We all know how rampant sexual harassment and misconduct is at Musk-owned and operated companies. If this wasn't the case, I would tend to side with Musk, but it's not so it adds a lot of credibility to this report, perhaps enough to tip the scale enough to put the burden of proof on Musk. If in fact it can be shown she was paid $250,000 (a lot of money for a flight attendant), it looks very bad for him.
One of the things that I most hate about tech is the obsession and idolization over the founder, and how bad behavior by them is routinely tolerated. It always comes back to bite you in the end, and, at the end of the day, the founder would be nothing without their employees and engineers, who do all the hard work. With all the constant tweeting, public persona building, interviewing, is Musk really doing any work or adding any value to these companies? If he isn't actually involved in day to day operations, and all his value depends on his celebrity, he is in quite a difficult position -- not unlike a celebrity: one misstep and your entire career could be over. I do not envy his position.
Smart people will only tolerate working for a chauvinist with an outsized ego for so long.
We all know how rampant sexual harassment and misconduct is at Musk-owned and operated companies. If this wasn't the case, I would tend to side with Musk, but it's not so it adds a lot of credibility to this report, perhaps enough to tip the scale enough to put the burden of proof on Musk. If in fact it can be shown she was paid $250,000 (a lot of money for a flight attendant), it looks very bad for him.
One of the things that I most hate about tech is the obsession and idolization over the founder, and how bad behavior by them is routinely tolerated. It always comes back to bite you in the end, and, at the end of the day, the founder would be nothing without their employees and engineers, who do all the hard work. With all the constant tweeting, public persona building, interviewing, is Musk really doing any work or adding any value to these companies? If he isn't actually involved in day to day operations, and all his value depends on his celebrity, he is in quite a difficult position -- not unlike a celebrity: one misstep and your entire career could be over. I do not envy his position.
Smart people will only tolerate working for a chauvinist with an outsized ego for so long.
> We all know how rampant sexual harassment and misconduct is at Musk-owned and operated companies.
I don’t think this should be stated as fact without some references to back it up. I certainly hadn’t gotten this impression of Tesla or SpaceX.
I don’t think this should be stated as fact without some references to back it up. I certainly hadn’t gotten this impression of Tesla or SpaceX.
FTA:
> Two of his companies, however, have faced allegations of sexual harassment in the past. In December 2021, the same week he was named Time's Person of the Year, four women who worked at SpaceX spoke out about sexual harassment they said they faced at the company, where Musk is the CEO. One, Ashley Kosak, published an essay recounting being groped and touched inappropriately by male employees while she was an intern. Three others — one of whom said she was bound by a non-disclosure agreement — recounted similar treatment to the New York Times.
> In response to the reports, SpaceX president and chief operating officer Gwynne Shotwell sent a company-wide email saying that "timely reporting of harassment is key to our maintaining SpaceX as a great place to work; we can't fix what we don't know," the Times reported. She added that SpaceX will "rigorously investigate all harassment or discrimination claims and take rapid and appropriate action when we find our policy is violated."
> And at least six women have sued Tesla, where Musk is the CEO, alleging sexual harassment at a Tesla factory. Men at the factory ogled women and remarked on their clothes, the complaints said, leading some women to wear baggy outfits and use stacks of boxes to obstruct the views of leering co-workers. Some of the women claimed they were retaliated against when they came forward.
> Two of his companies, however, have faced allegations of sexual harassment in the past. In December 2021, the same week he was named Time's Person of the Year, four women who worked at SpaceX spoke out about sexual harassment they said they faced at the company, where Musk is the CEO. One, Ashley Kosak, published an essay recounting being groped and touched inappropriately by male employees while she was an intern. Three others — one of whom said she was bound by a non-disclosure agreement — recounted similar treatment to the New York Times.
> In response to the reports, SpaceX president and chief operating officer Gwynne Shotwell sent a company-wide email saying that "timely reporting of harassment is key to our maintaining SpaceX as a great place to work; we can't fix what we don't know," the Times reported. She added that SpaceX will "rigorously investigate all harassment or discrimination claims and take rapid and appropriate action when we find our policy is violated."
> And at least six women have sued Tesla, where Musk is the CEO, alleging sexual harassment at a Tesla factory. Men at the factory ogled women and remarked on their clothes, the complaints said, leading some women to wear baggy outfits and use stacks of boxes to obstruct the views of leering co-workers. Some of the women claimed they were retaliated against when they came forward.
I think it is obvious to most people that his recent statements was probably an attempt to get ahead of the story. I'm not going to make any judgement about whether it is true or not, but $250,000 is a lot of money for a false accusation.
Realistically, what is the other option? Seems that would be just as expensive and risk public attention (even if its completely false).
He didn't even deny it when asked for comment, just said there is more to the story. I will give it time though before I make too many assumptions, but if he knew about this and then went and posted the comment about the left attacking him shortly after that isn't really the actions of someone who is innocent.
There's no way to know what really happened until we have actual proof.
>After Insider contacted Musk for comment, he emailed to ask for more time to respond and said there is "a lot more to this story."
Do we even know what Insider's question was or if there was more to the response?
Ultimately, if this is all true that would be incredibly disheartening. I still feel it's convenient this comes up on the heels of him turning his back on certain political groups. He moved to Texas and has been complaining about leftists for awhile now. I'm not a fan of engaging in that stuff at all but I try to refrain from hating people for it, regardless of "side." I said the same exact thing when 10s of accusations came up against Biden the minute he started gaining traction in the primaries. Seems when these things are true they come more out of nowhere, i.e. Epstein, Weinstein and Cuomo. Ofc, not saying timing doesn't mean it isn't true. Just saying it would be far from the first convenient accusation against a public figure.
>After Insider contacted Musk for comment, he emailed to ask for more time to respond and said there is "a lot more to this story."
Do we even know what Insider's question was or if there was more to the response?
Ultimately, if this is all true that would be incredibly disheartening. I still feel it's convenient this comes up on the heels of him turning his back on certain political groups. He moved to Texas and has been complaining about leftists for awhile now. I'm not a fan of engaging in that stuff at all but I try to refrain from hating people for it, regardless of "side." I said the same exact thing when 10s of accusations came up against Biden the minute he started gaining traction in the primaries. Seems when these things are true they come more out of nowhere, i.e. Epstein, Weinstein and Cuomo. Ofc, not saying timing doesn't mean it isn't true. Just saying it would be far from the first convenient accusation against a public figure.
I agree more information needs to come out to fully judge the situation, and agreed that it would be ideal for people like this to come forward sooner, but at the same time a reasonable attorney would probably advise their client that $250k for a settlement is a pretty good offer. They aren't even the ones disclosing the information here, it is a friend who took it on themselves to provide details and sought advice related to the matter about whether that would be considered breaking the settlement agreement. Up until recently states didn't even prohibit NDAs in settlement agreements involving sexual assault.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1421325748158312458
"Tesla policy is never to give in to false claims, even if we would lose, and never to fight true claims, even if we would win."
So this is either true or he's a liar (or just inconsistent...), make your own mind up
"Tesla policy is never to give in to false claims, even if we would lose, and never to fight true claims, even if we would win."
So this is either true or he's a liar (or just inconsistent...), make your own mind up
This is SpaceX though not Tesla, has he given a similar statement for their policy?
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Just being honest here: $250k doesn't seem like a lot to me to shut up and deal, but I can also see just getting on with life after a come on.
first google result:
>the majority of Charter Flight Attendant salaries currently range between $30,500 (25th percentile) to $49,000 (75th percentile)
This happened in 2018, so she likely made less and $250k would have seemed like even more then than now - so yeah in her shoes I would have taken that deal too.
>the majority of Charter Flight Attendant salaries currently range between $30,500 (25th percentile) to $49,000 (75th percentile)
This happened in 2018, so she likely made less and $250k would have seemed like even more then than now - so yeah in her shoes I would have taken that deal too.
A lot of people are saying that Musk is buying Twitter to get ahead of this story and control the narrative around it. That's a reasonable (albeit very unproven) hypothesis. I'd be interested to see if actual facts about this come out and to see if Musk is allowed to say anything about this. Anything is certainly possible and Musk should be condemned harshly for any proven bad behavior. (Personally I think he's just a fairly smart investor and needed cover for an overpriced TSLA stock heading towards a down economy so he wanted to cash out a bit while he still could)
But I'd like to put being a celebrity billionaire into context. (this is not from the personal experience of being a celebrity billionaire, unfortunately)
Pretty much every non-rich person in the sphere of a wealthy celebrity is hoping to financially benefit from that access. Some nicer people take the path of trying to be extremely loyal to the celebrity in hopes of getting access, jobs, and gifts: you sometimes read stories about wealthy peoples' employees who get extremely generous gifts from them.
However, some sociopaths take the path of trying to maneuver themselves into falsely suing their way into getting a piece of that wealth. I'd bet that quite a few rich folks have secretly paid off some bad behaving employees who were willing to fabricate claims to just go away. This doesn't mean that the billionaire did anything wrong, it just wasn't worth the hassle to try and fight a particular claim at a particular time. This is just something that people should keep in mind when hearing about any claims about celebrities: they're surrounded by people who are tempted to take their one shot at a piece of that wealth.
But I'd like to put being a celebrity billionaire into context. (this is not from the personal experience of being a celebrity billionaire, unfortunately)
Pretty much every non-rich person in the sphere of a wealthy celebrity is hoping to financially benefit from that access. Some nicer people take the path of trying to be extremely loyal to the celebrity in hopes of getting access, jobs, and gifts: you sometimes read stories about wealthy peoples' employees who get extremely generous gifts from them.
However, some sociopaths take the path of trying to maneuver themselves into falsely suing their way into getting a piece of that wealth. I'd bet that quite a few rich folks have secretly paid off some bad behaving employees who were willing to fabricate claims to just go away. This doesn't mean that the billionaire did anything wrong, it just wasn't worth the hassle to try and fight a particular claim at a particular time. This is just something that people should keep in mind when hearing about any claims about celebrities: they're surrounded by people who are tempted to take their one shot at a piece of that wealth.
> A lot of people are saying that Musk is buying Twitter to get ahead of this story and control the narrative around it. That's a reasonable (albeit very unproven) hypothesis.
I’m sorry but there is no world in which Musk spends $40b to control the narrative in a single sexual harassment story. Clearly it was only worth $250k to get an NDA from her in 2018. Musk buying Twitter has nothing to do with this.
Musk’s tweets about incoming political attacks on the other hand likely do have something to do with it.
I’m sorry but there is no world in which Musk spends $40b to control the narrative in a single sexual harassment story. Clearly it was only worth $250k to get an NDA from her in 2018. Musk buying Twitter has nothing to do with this.
Musk’s tweets about incoming political attacks on the other hand likely do have something to do with it.
but if it's a pattern OTOH…
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Yet another reminder that you should never pay blackmailers.
this just seems like a lot of hearsay and indirect evidence, from a friend of the ostensibly affected individual. I mean, sure, SpaceX paid that, but it doesn't mean the event even happened, and even if it did... he propositioned her and she said no. There was no exchange of bodily fluids.
You usually don't proposition your employees, especially if you are a CEO and the context is during a massage that is an employee perk for executives.
"After Insider contacted Musk for comment, he emailed to ask for more time to respond and said there is "a lot more to this story."
"If I were inclined to engage in sexual harassment, this is unlikely to be the first time in my entire 30-year career that it comes to light," he wrote, calling the story a "politically motivated hit piece."
Insider extended the deadline and reiterated the offer to Musk to comment on the claims. He did not respond."
If it weren't true, you would imagine they would more strongly deny the event happened.
"After Insider contacted Musk for comment, he emailed to ask for more time to respond and said there is "a lot more to this story."
"If I were inclined to engage in sexual harassment, this is unlikely to be the first time in my entire 30-year career that it comes to light," he wrote, calling the story a "politically motivated hit piece."
Insider extended the deadline and reiterated the offer to Musk to comment on the claims. He did not respond."
If it weren't true, you would imagine they would more strongly deny the event happened.
Thanks for pointing out that it was an employee, although in reality she was a contractee of the flight service.
no, you cannot conclude that if people don't deny something strongly that it means something happened. I don't think he's even denying the event, but wouldn't classify it as "harassment".
There are many ways to interpret what people say and do in public.
no, you cannot conclude that if people don't deny something strongly that it means something happened. I don't think he's even denying the event, but wouldn't classify it as "harassment".
There are many ways to interpret what people say and do in public.
I'm free to conclude whatever I want. I'm not the court of law. You're clearly making your own conclusions as well.
Even if you were the court of law, I think you'd understand that whipping out your genitals and propositioning sex constitutes sexual harassment.
Yes, I agree. The person replying to me seems to want to debate that.
No, I said there's no proof that happened. All of this is coming from a person who was a friend of the individual who made the settlement. This is hearsay; we can't verify it, nor can we (logically) conclude that it happened because SpaceX made a settlement (many companies settle, even if not guilty, to avoid bad PR from lawsuits).
I actually literally have no idea what happened, and I don't particularly like Musk. I'm just pointing out some fairly obvious epistemological details about truth in the news.
I actually literally have no idea what happened, and I don't particularly like Musk. I'm just pointing out some fairly obvious epistemological details about truth in the news.
> You usually don't proposition your employees, especially if you are a CEO and the context is during a massage that is an employee perk for executives.
Well no duh, but if he was on the plane and he got served too much alcohol. I can see that happening.
Well no duh, but if he was on the plane and he got served too much alcohol. I can see that happening.
And it would be sexual harassment at best? And it would be right to hold you to account...
"I drank too much" does not excuse showing someone your dick and asking to buy sex from them.
"I drank too much" does not excuse showing someone your dick and asking to buy sex from them.
Given he was already in a state of undress, it's completely unclear if he just turned over and the towel fell off. There is no indication of the "manner" in which it was done. And of course if he touched the woman and asked her to "do more" she's automatically going to assume all sorts of things, as would anyone.
She was subsequently upset that she didn't get more time on the jet after reporting the incident as well, which just sounds weird. Why would she want to get back on the jet at all...
She was subsequently upset that she didn't get more time on the jet after reporting the incident as well, which just sounds weird. Why would she want to get back on the jet at all...
Ok, last question first: because a job pays your bills, and maybe the job is ok and pays well as long as you don't get sexually harassed. She was effectively demoted through no fault of her own. "She asked not to be demoted, which is weird" is a nonsense take.
And, "maybe the towel fell off when he turned over" is also weird. Typically, a masseuse would hold up a sheet while you turned over, and give you the time and space to do so and ask if you were covered before continuing the massage. I've had many massages, and accidental nudity would be pretty difficult.
Second, when you are getting a massage, your arms are placed by your sides on the table so the masseuse can work them while they are relaxed. Touching or grabbing the masseuse would require you to take a really uncommon action. It's also unlikely to be accidental. It's also expected that you don't reach out and touch the masseuse... If you need their attention you use words.
It's a monumental stretch to imagine this happening accidentally. Occam's razor suggests here that Musk crossed the line.
And, "maybe the towel fell off when he turned over" is also weird. Typically, a masseuse would hold up a sheet while you turned over, and give you the time and space to do so and ask if you were covered before continuing the massage. I've had many massages, and accidental nudity would be pretty difficult.
Second, when you are getting a massage, your arms are placed by your sides on the table so the masseuse can work them while they are relaxed. Touching or grabbing the masseuse would require you to take a really uncommon action. It's also unlikely to be accidental. It's also expected that you don't reach out and touch the masseuse... If you need their attention you use words.
It's a monumental stretch to imagine this happening accidentally. Occam's razor suggests here that Musk crossed the line.
There isn't going to be anything more than hearsay. Any evidence released would be claimed to be fabricated, if the individual herself came forward people would say she was lying. We've seen this play out multiples times with rich, wealthy and/or powerful individuals.
What should be considered damning in this case is Musk using very typical tactics to try and get ahead of the story while also claiming there's more to it (a tacit admittal that it did happen) even though he's refusing to elaborate.
What should be considered damning in this case is Musk using very typical tactics to try and get ahead of the story while also claiming there's more to it (a tacit admittal that it did happen) even though he's refusing to elaborate.
> also claiming there's more to it
Do you know the question insider asked to prompt this response?
Do you know the question insider asked to prompt this response?
A loaded one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
Pulling out your erect penis is not an appropriate way to proposition someone
Hearsay.
Musk already commented that he has more to add to that story, not that he denies it. You sound like a fan
Funny how he'll tweet multiple times a day, but when the story drops he is silent on the matter. I'm thinking he is at least listening to his attorneys for once.
he tweeted he didn't do it.
LOL. He tweeted he knew who the "friend" was and previously said there is more the story. Obviously he's not sharing the full picture here, and if there is an NDA he might as well invalidate it since he claims to be a free speech absolutist.
He explicitly said that he didn't do it. There's nothing more for him to say here to defend himself.
I'm not a fan of musk, I think he's an idiot. Not denying a story doesn't mean much.
And now he has explicitly denied that it occurred.
(still not a fan)
(still not a fan)
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"In the past I voted Democrat, because they were (mostly) the kindness party.
But they have become the party of division & hate, so I can no longer support them and will vote Republican.
Now, watch their dirty tricks campaign against me unfold … " https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526997132858822658
Interesting strategy of trying to get ahead of this..