Ask HN: Is it possible to get an 18-year-old to spend less time on the computer?
170 comments
I was once this kid..
So from that perspective I can say… the internet and video games were very much filling a void in my life. It took spiraling into deep depression and thoughts of suicide to realize I needed to make the change myself. I suspect any degree of forceful action wont work sufficiently.
Find out what this kid wants out of life, actually get to know them, something my parents never really did. And this might mean asking to play video games with them.
Once you know what they want, what they truly want, you can help provide the tools and guidance for achieving those things outside of a television or computer screen.
Making the effort to actually connect with the person before suggesting an alternative lifestyle is key.
That being said, this person is a young adult and many people live happy lives spending lots of time in front of a screen.
So from that perspective I can say… the internet and video games were very much filling a void in my life. It took spiraling into deep depression and thoughts of suicide to realize I needed to make the change myself. I suspect any degree of forceful action wont work sufficiently.
Find out what this kid wants out of life, actually get to know them, something my parents never really did. And this might mean asking to play video games with them.
Once you know what they want, what they truly want, you can help provide the tools and guidance for achieving those things outside of a television or computer screen.
Making the effort to actually connect with the person before suggesting an alternative lifestyle is key.
That being said, this person is a young adult and many people live happy lives spending lots of time in front of a screen.
Agree with everything above. I would also say, I spend more than 9 hours a day on my computer. Sure, it's my job, but I'm curious what "healthy computer habits" means in a world where this person will very likely be expected to spend 9 hours a day on the computer for their work. Unhealthy computer habits as a teenager are what made me able to get a job in this field without a degree. Certainly some of this was unhealthy for me, and 9 hours a day playing video games can be problematic, but ultimately I went from spending 9 hours a day in front of a computer to.... spending 9 hours a day in front of a computer.
I feel like this advice is the best that I've skimmed through here.
I am still this kid (though now older and working). All the people calling to just unilaterally cut all computer access make me wonder if they themselves even remember being 18 or lived similar to this way when they were that age.
I am still this kid (though now older and working). All the people calling to just unilaterally cut all computer access make me wonder if they themselves even remember being 18 or lived similar to this way when they were that age.
This is the only proper reply here.
When I was 18 I was exactly the same, I've wasted my teenage years in front a screen not having had a single worthy experience, and there was no one to come have that talk with me because I practically didn't have parents. I wish someone would have given me guidance in life and navigate me on the right track. So be a proper parent and go talk to your kid and really try to understand what bothers them and what's hiding behind the games.
> actually get to know them
YES!
Often as adults we take a prescriptive approach to what young people should want/do/feel without actually knowing anything about them, and then we are surprised when they don’t respond to our wisdom.
I’ll add that the computer often also fills a social need. Within the often toxic social environment of the school, finding other people with common interests can be quite challenging, but online accomplishing such thing is a lot easier because there’s a twitch/tiktok for everything and likely an accompanying discord server.
When as we grew up playing with kids down the street because we had in common that the both of us had a bike or legos or whatever, we happen to live in a very different world in which often, not even the adults that would like the kids to “go out and play” actually know their next door neighbors.
Often as adults we take a prescriptive approach to what young people should want/do/feel without actually knowing anything about them, and then we are surprised when they don’t respond to our wisdom.
I’ll add that the computer often also fills a social need. Within the often toxic social environment of the school, finding other people with common interests can be quite challenging, but online accomplishing such thing is a lot easier because there’s a twitch/tiktok for everything and likely an accompanying discord server.
When as we grew up playing with kids down the street because we had in common that the both of us had a bike or legos or whatever, we happen to live in a very different world in which often, not even the adults that would like the kids to “go out and play” actually know their next door neighbors.
This.
One thing to add, some people use the internet as a surrogate social group in lieu of one in real life. Especially now, I have heard from many people how it is difficult to maintain social relationships in real life, especially outside of the context of work or school. Online communities can emulate this to some degree with a very low barrier of entry, which could be a reason why someone spends that much time online.
> And this might mean asking to play video games with them.
I double this. It breaks so many barriers to just embrace the hobby and go along with it. Once the barriers are down, you'll get to know the person behind that face much much better.
I double this. It breaks so many barriers to just embrace the hobby and go along with it. Once the barriers are down, you'll get to know the person behind that face much much better.
> many people live happy lives spending lots of time in front of a screen.
Though the screen with its infinite entertainment capacity can easily prevent you from finding what brings you actual fulfillment.
Though the screen with its infinite entertainment capacity can easily prevent you from finding what brings you actual fulfillment.
I could have written this. Too relatable.
Wow, some of the comments on this are frankly disturbing.
Here is my two cents. If you are worried about how someone close to you is doing, my advice is to sit down with them and have a chat. Explain to them why you are worried and how you feel. Let them talk to you about how they feel and why they do what they do. Try to be genuinely useful.
If you think your kids are being a bit lazy, could contribute more, are genuinely worried about the impact their hobby has on their social life and wellbeing or simply expect something different, well, letting them know exactly what it’s all about always seems a good start.
It’s funny because I wrote basically the same advice in a thread regarding relationships with customers and management just a week ago. Seriously people should talk to each other more before jumping to action.
Here is my two cents. If you are worried about how someone close to you is doing, my advice is to sit down with them and have a chat. Explain to them why you are worried and how you feel. Let them talk to you about how they feel and why they do what they do. Try to be genuinely useful.
If you think your kids are being a bit lazy, could contribute more, are genuinely worried about the impact their hobby has on their social life and wellbeing or simply expect something different, well, letting them know exactly what it’s all about always seems a good start.
It’s funny because I wrote basically the same advice in a thread regarding relationships with customers and management just a week ago. Seriously people should talk to each other more before jumping to action.
If my kid was spending 8+ hours a day on the computer, it would tell me they don't have enough to do - and should have a job.
Stop buying things for 18 year olds - including clothes and other necessities other than the absolute basics (assuming they live at home) - 8 hours per day free time means they have enough free time to get a job and pay their own way.
As a parent of 4 successful kids - all now grown - leaving them wanting more than you provide them for free - that they then have to work and pay for themselves, can do wonders.
Stop buying things for 18 year olds - including clothes and other necessities other than the absolute basics (assuming they live at home) - 8 hours per day free time means they have enough free time to get a job and pay their own way.
As a parent of 4 successful kids - all now grown - leaving them wanting more than you provide them for free - that they then have to work and pay for themselves, can do wonders.
This. As someone who has 3 adult children all out of the house now, I would take this a step further and say we have an obligation as parents to teach our young adult children how to be self sufficient. Learning how to find a job and stay employed, pay rent and bills etc are all life skills that we should be teaching our kids as they mature. If they don't have plans to continue with school then they should be working. It is a mistake to let kids stay dependent on you for the long term when they should be starting their own careers and/or finding their place in the world.
I had a neighbor years ago who passed away suddenly and he had two adult kids living with him in their early-mid 20s that weren't working or going to school. After a few months the bank foreclosed on their house and kicked the kids out. They had no money and no place to live, I'm not sure what ended up happening to them. Give your kids a fighting chance in the world people by helping them become functional adults.
I had a neighbor years ago who passed away suddenly and he had two adult kids living with him in their early-mid 20s that weren't working or going to school. After a few months the bank foreclosed on their house and kicked the kids out. They had no money and no place to live, I'm not sure what ended up happening to them. Give your kids a fighting chance in the world people by helping them become functional adults.
I don't plan to let mine have their own cell phones (we'll probably get a dumbphone for them to share when they go out places or for their friends to call them, as they get a bit older) until they can pay for the phone and plan themselves. If they stop paying for the plan, I'll lock the MAC out of our wifi. Can't pay for it, not ready for it. 8 year olds shouldn't have a smartphone.
[EDIT] Just to back up your "if you can't pay for it, you don't get it" approach, that is. Strong agreement. Risky perks like Internet access must be earned. As for video games, the Switch is nice because you can easily physically remove it to somewhere else without having to unplug a bunch of stuff. Switch isn't there = no video games right now. Switch is there = video games are OK. Zero monitoring required.
[EDIT] Just to back up your "if you can't pay for it, you don't get it" approach, that is. Strong agreement. Risky perks like Internet access must be earned. As for video games, the Switch is nice because you can easily physically remove it to somewhere else without having to unplug a bunch of stuff. Switch isn't there = no video games right now. Switch is there = video games are OK. Zero monitoring required.
This was my plan too, but when they hit middle school and are literally the only kid without a phone, and it is the difference between being invited places vs not, it just doesn't work.
Depends a lot on the school. Locally, in public schools, half or more of kids have their own smartphone by fourth grade. The situation at at least some private schools is very different. Low rates of ownership up until 8th grade or so. Helps that some of the private schools haven't gone batshit insane and started letting kids carry their phones around with them all day, like, inexplicably, all of the public schools have.
>haven't gone batshit insane and started letting kids carry their phones around with them all day
Would you expand on why this is "batshit insane"?
Phones are one of the most ubiquitous pieces of tech on the planet, have several very beneficial uses, make it easier to connect and stay in touch with friends, etc. Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of "batshit insane" to me.
Would you expand on why this is "batshit insane"?
Phones are one of the most ubiquitous pieces of tech on the planet, have several very beneficial uses, make it easier to connect and stay in touch with friends, etc. Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of "batshit insane" to me.
> Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of "batshit insane" to me.
They do not and cannot realistically do this. Meanwhile, it's like they're letting them walk around with gameboys that can also be (and constantly are) used to clandestinely bully people and take creepy photos and share them and shit. It's plainly insane.
[EDIT] Further, they're at school. How much "stay[ing] in touch with their friends" do they need to do?! They're either in class, so shouldn't be fucking around on their phones (the problem: they do, a lot, and at least around here most admin won't take their phones away or ban them from having phones at school for it) or they're between classes or at lunch or whatever and can just talk to their friends.
They do not and cannot realistically do this. Meanwhile, it's like they're letting them walk around with gameboys that can also be (and constantly are) used to clandestinely bully people and take creepy photos and share them and shit. It's plainly insane.
[EDIT] Further, they're at school. How much "stay[ing] in touch with their friends" do they need to do?! They're either in class, so shouldn't be fucking around on their phones (the problem: they do, a lot, and at least around here most admin won't take their phones away or ban them from having phones at school for it) or they're between classes or at lunch or whatever and can just talk to their friends.
>They do not and cannot realistically do this
I guess we disagree on the fundamentals. I believe kids can be taught how to interact with technology responsibly. In fact, my whole goal as a parent is to teach my kid how to responsibly navigate through life (which has increasing amounts of technology that they must eventually learn how to interact with).
Sometimes they need a bit more hand-holding (e.g. parental controls on a phone so it isn't a gameboy) until we can properly discuss something and settle on appropriate boundries. Other times they surprise me with how responsible they are. But if you're starting from a position of "kids can't learn to use a phone responsibly", I'm not sure what to say.
I guess we disagree on the fundamentals. I believe kids can be taught how to interact with technology responsibly. In fact, my whole goal as a parent is to teach my kid how to responsibly navigate through life (which has increasing amounts of technology that they must eventually learn how to interact with).
Sometimes they need a bit more hand-holding (e.g. parental controls on a phone so it isn't a gameboy) until we can properly discuss something and settle on appropriate boundries. Other times they surprise me with how responsible they are. But if you're starting from a position of "kids can't learn to use a phone responsibly", I'm not sure what to say.
> I believe kids can be taught how to interact with technology responsibly.
A school cannot do this while doing all the other stuff they have to do, and you don't get to teach your kids' peers not to do horrible things with their devices.
AFAI am concerned teaching them responsible use would include teaching them that a smartphone has no place in school. Shit, they never let us carry dumb phones and it was only near the end we could even keep them in our lockers, and that was the right decision. I don't think they let our predecessors carry Electronic Football around at school, either, and that was also the right call, despite those devices posing ~no danger and being about 1% as disruptive as a smartphone.
A school cannot do this while doing all the other stuff they have to do, and you don't get to teach your kids' peers not to do horrible things with their devices.
AFAI am concerned teaching them responsible use would include teaching them that a smartphone has no place in school. Shit, they never let us carry dumb phones and it was only near the end we could even keep them in our lockers, and that was the right decision. I don't think they let our predecessors carry Electronic Football around at school, either, and that was also the right call, despite those devices posing ~no danger and being about 1% as disruptive as a smartphone.
Many middle schools have uniforms for a similar reasons. "Learning to dress appropriately" is not considered to be more important than avoiding its distractions.
"kids can't learn to use a phone responsibly"
Isn't the responsible use of a phone during school to turn the phone off?
I graduated from a relatively affluent public high school in 2006, and a significant number of students had cell phones in school. It was common for teachers to take student's phones - most of which could only text/call - if they used them during class.
Isn't the responsible use of a phone during school to turn the phone off?
I graduated from a relatively affluent public high school in 2006, and a significant number of students had cell phones in school. It was common for teachers to take student's phones - most of which could only text/call - if they used them during class.
> Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of "batshit insane" to me.
Giving them unrestricted access to phones is not how you do this. That’s like saying that for every kid who wants to eat ice cream for dinner every night, that you’d give them an unlimited supply and “eventually” they’ll figure out why that’s not good (after they’re already morbidly obese and have diabetes).
The starting point for a limitation is that they have to be forced into the limit (by the parents setting and enforcing the rules), which mentally creates a baseline of what’s acceptable vs not. Then you can progress into something that’s less restrictive over time, which is where the shifting of responsibility happens.
Giving them unrestricted access to phones is not how you do this. That’s like saying that for every kid who wants to eat ice cream for dinner every night, that you’d give them an unlimited supply and “eventually” they’ll figure out why that’s not good (after they’re already morbidly obese and have diabetes).
The starting point for a limitation is that they have to be forced into the limit (by the parents setting and enforcing the rules), which mentally creates a baseline of what’s acceptable vs not. Then you can progress into something that’s less restrictive over time, which is where the shifting of responsibility happens.
I think most of what is available on the internet is too toxic to be given freely to teenagers. Specially social media
Lol— I had a friend whose parents took this approach. The parents eventually gave in because they got tired of never being able to reach their son through failed attempts to call friends (like me) in an effort to reach him.
Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old (still not really working age but definitely socializing independently age).
Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old (still not really working age but definitely socializing independently age).
Hence the shared dumbphone to take places. If we have to, we'll get one for each. No personal smartphones until they can pay for it themselves, at which point I reckon that's proof enough that they're responsible enough for it until they prove otherwise.
[EDIT] Also:
> Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old (still not really working age but definitely socializing independently age).
I started my first job at 15, as did tons of my classmates. Is that no longer a fairly ordinary age for a first job? Has it changed that much changed in a bit over two decades?
[EDIT] Also:
> Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old (still not really working age but definitely socializing independently age).
I started my first job at 15, as did tons of my classmates. Is that no longer a fairly ordinary age for a first job? Has it changed that much changed in a bit over two decades?
AFAIK nothings really changed, but 14 has been on the fringe of legal employment age in most scenarios for a long time and is regulated. 16+ is fair game, plus depending on location there is the whole issue about how they get to work.
Is your goal to socially stunt all of your kids? Because that's what happens when they go for years being the only ones in their peer groups with substantially less ability to communicate with each other.
Here’s a data point from someone whose parents kept technology away from me as a pre-teen/teenager as some sort of character building I-know-best exercise:
They’re not a part of my life.
They’re not a part of my life.
Really?
My parents did some pretty messed up things to try to get me to be a better behaved kid, the ‘70s and ‘80s were a different time, and I have no resentment against them because they tried their (probably misguided) best.
As kids go I was admittedly pretty difficult but the army straightened me out when I basically had the choice of joining at 17 or, who knows, didn’t see any other options at the time.
My parents did some pretty messed up things to try to get me to be a better behaved kid, the ‘70s and ‘80s were a different time, and I have no resentment against them because they tried their (probably misguided) best.
As kids go I was admittedly pretty difficult but the army straightened me out when I basically had the choice of joining at 17 or, who knows, didn’t see any other options at the time.
> the ‘70s and ‘80s were a different time
You are correct.
You are correct.
I think the issue requires a bit more nuance and understanding than "Get a Job". If there are core issues underlying the symptom of "my kid is on the computer", getting a job might make those issues worse. Not to mention that many jobs ARE online. Your kid could actually be hustling too hard and neglecting their personal life and suffering for it.
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A 18yo is not a child, do not to treat him/her as one.
The violence of taking stuff away and the lack of conversation, is more problematic than the screen time.
Have one (or many) respectful conversations about screen time addiction. Every addictive habit has a feedback loop of "Trigger/Routine/Reward". Talk with her to change some parts of that cycle. For example, instead of watching anime alone, it could be social -in person- activity with friends (same reward, different routine). What is the trigger for these activities? Perhaps this person is depressed, and the depression is the trigger for that routine (even if is not that rewarding). In that case, ask for professional help.
Summary. Be creative, patient, and *listen*.
The violence of taking stuff away and the lack of conversation, is more problematic than the screen time.
Have one (or many) respectful conversations about screen time addiction. Every addictive habit has a feedback loop of "Trigger/Routine/Reward". Talk with her to change some parts of that cycle. For example, instead of watching anime alone, it could be social -in person- activity with friends (same reward, different routine). What is the trigger for these activities? Perhaps this person is depressed, and the depression is the trigger for that routine (even if is not that rewarding). In that case, ask for professional help.
Summary. Be creative, patient, and *listen*.
Just to make sure that I have this straight: The parent didn’t know how to successfully influence this individual, you also don’t know how to influence this individual, so you’re appealing to strangers on the internet for advice about how to forcibly change an adult’s behavior?
I doubt you’re going to find any truly applicable advice about forcing this person to behave the way you want them to here. You’re talking about an individual human adult, not some theoretical cookie cutter “18 year old.”
> The parent has tried locking the computer in a different room…
This is the strategy that I use to keep my cat from eating all of his treats. I have never considered treating a human adult in such an infantilizing way.
Considering the fact that you’re playing a game of internet telephone to figure out how to modify behavior that you don’t like, I’d suggest helping this adult get away from his or her parents.
Or at the very least, ask yourself why you are fixated on this particular behavior and why you feel entitled to eliminate it. You didn’t ask “How can I help make this person happier or more successful?” or “How can I improve communication with this person?”, you asked “How do I stamp out this behavior that my relative finds distasteful?”
If your family member boils their relationship problem with their child down to a single negative behavior, it’s likely that there is a mutual disdain that’s much, MUCH worse than gaming. If the parent isn’t interested in addressing underlying issues, then the solution is to help that adult to move out!
I doubt you’re going to find any truly applicable advice about forcing this person to behave the way you want them to here. You’re talking about an individual human adult, not some theoretical cookie cutter “18 year old.”
> The parent has tried locking the computer in a different room…
This is the strategy that I use to keep my cat from eating all of his treats. I have never considered treating a human adult in such an infantilizing way.
Considering the fact that you’re playing a game of internet telephone to figure out how to modify behavior that you don’t like, I’d suggest helping this adult get away from his or her parents.
Or at the very least, ask yourself why you are fixated on this particular behavior and why you feel entitled to eliminate it. You didn’t ask “How can I help make this person happier or more successful?” or “How can I improve communication with this person?”, you asked “How do I stamp out this behavior that my relative finds distasteful?”
If your family member boils their relationship problem with their child down to a single negative behavior, it’s likely that there is a mutual disdain that’s much, MUCH worse than gaming. If the parent isn’t interested in addressing underlying issues, then the solution is to help that adult to move out!
Asking the Internet for ideas can work when the respondents can suggest new things or approaches, and the asker can evaluate their usefulness in light of their contextual knowledge of their situation.
I agree about the value of the internet. It’s amazing that people can ask questions in general and share knowledge, and I am happy that it exists.
Not really sure how that applies to my post though, but cheers!
Not really sure how that applies to my post though, but cheers!
It's a response to the first two paragraphs, which responded with incredulity to the idea that a forum could help solve an family's interpersonal problem. Sorry if I misread; if I didn't misread, appreciate the concession.
Ah sorry, I thought you might have been responding having read my entire post, which gives context to the first two paragraphs.
Haha. Suffice to say that it's possible to help an adult family member with problems. It makes perfect sense to cast a wider net if out of ideas.
Someone who is 18 is already an adult. Trying to enforce restrictions to an adult will only generate pushback and resentment. At that age, it is too late. You can let him play and live that way or you may try to fix it. The later will only cause discussions and fights.
And before you know it, your 31 year old man child is still sitting in the basement and you're still buying their games.
There are multiple ways to try to stop this behavior. I will tell you the ways that didn't work for my parents. Turning off the internet, cutting the electricity off, hiding the PC or consoles, knocking the door at night asking if I am playing or studying. They annoyed me so much that I stopped playing for a while, got a job and moved out from my parents house at the first opportunity. Now, I continue to play as before but no longer talk to them. If that is the outcome the op friend is trying to accomplish then ok.
My parents took a more hands on approach of destroying my desktop that I paid for and built at 16, broke my bedroom door and subsequently splintered the frame so it couldn't be put back on, constantly disabling my phone service, taking my phone. I don't believe I am capable of making friends, my parents always chose my friends for me and we never had anything in common. The moment I moved out to university I built another machine and did nothing but play games resulting in failing multiple classes. While it was my fault, I did not learn moderation through constant repression. The only thing I got out of this experience is cPTSD, Prazosin, social isolation, panic attacks at footsteps, no identity since I never had the opportunity to understand myself or my emotions. I am however good at picking locks, manipulation, never showing emotion, weaponizing an arsenal of personalities, staying calm and diffusing stressful situations.
My relationship with my parents is fine, I am good at telling them exactly what they want to hear to avoid conflict. I have tried to be open to them numerous times, it only made things worse.
I've grown to enjoy being alone, no longer feel lonely most days. Sometimes I do try to make some semblance of a relationship through games or other activities outside of the computer, but my social skills are lacking not for lack of trying or improving. There are many things I try to change and improve about myself, many sleepless nights reading wikipedia and studies trying to figure out what exactly is wrong with me and what I can do to fix it. I've hit a dead end with BPD, I try not to let it discourage me. I have overcome self harming mostly but the urges are still there. I am very tired and am falling into misanthropy, though I try my best to be the change I would like to see.
I do not blame my parents, my decisions have been my own and I try to be informed. They are human and have made mistakes. It is unfortunate that those mistakes have caused extensive damage to my mental. The things I want most in life are simply unobtainable due to my broken perception of relationships and emotional dysregulation. It is unfair to burden another human with my existence, for what I need they could never hope to provide, though many have tried and walked away hurt, all my fault.
I doubt OP could possibly do worse than this, but the ramifications of such actions should not be taken without heavy consideration. I want to do my best for the next generation and hopefully die soon so no more could be asked of me.
My relationship with my parents is fine, I am good at telling them exactly what they want to hear to avoid conflict. I have tried to be open to them numerous times, it only made things worse.
I've grown to enjoy being alone, no longer feel lonely most days. Sometimes I do try to make some semblance of a relationship through games or other activities outside of the computer, but my social skills are lacking not for lack of trying or improving. There are many things I try to change and improve about myself, many sleepless nights reading wikipedia and studies trying to figure out what exactly is wrong with me and what I can do to fix it. I've hit a dead end with BPD, I try not to let it discourage me. I have overcome self harming mostly but the urges are still there. I am very tired and am falling into misanthropy, though I try my best to be the change I would like to see.
I do not blame my parents, my decisions have been my own and I try to be informed. They are human and have made mistakes. It is unfortunate that those mistakes have caused extensive damage to my mental. The things I want most in life are simply unobtainable due to my broken perception of relationships and emotional dysregulation. It is unfair to burden another human with my existence, for what I need they could never hope to provide, though many have tried and walked away hurt, all my fault.
I doubt OP could possibly do worse than this, but the ramifications of such actions should not be taken without heavy consideration. I want to do my best for the next generation and hopefully die soon so no more could be asked of me.
i am sorry for your experience. did you try to talk to a psychologist?
the thing that i'd like to stress is that i don't think any of this is your fault. on the surface it looks like it is, but blaming yourself is not helpful.
The things I want most in life are simply unobtainable due to my broken perception of relationships and emotional dysregulation
i can relate to that. it took me a long time to understand what i needed to get out of a relationship and what i could contribute, because my parents didn't show me.
please continue to try. don't give up. i don't know what can help you. try making connections online. they are more distant, but less potential for hurt. and maybe, if you can, try travelling. you will meet lots of people to try to connect to, but you are not forced to stick around. i don't know if that works for you, but i think it's worth for the experience.
the thing that i'd like to stress is that i don't think any of this is your fault. on the surface it looks like it is, but blaming yourself is not helpful.
The things I want most in life are simply unobtainable due to my broken perception of relationships and emotional dysregulation
i can relate to that. it took me a long time to understand what i needed to get out of a relationship and what i could contribute, because my parents didn't show me.
please continue to try. don't give up. i don't know what can help you. try making connections online. they are more distant, but less potential for hurt. and maybe, if you can, try travelling. you will meet lots of people to try to connect to, but you are not forced to stick around. i don't know if that works for you, but i think it's worth for the experience.
You can write, though, so there's that.
If you're into reading, I can recommend "No Longer Human" by Osamu Dazai. It won't cheer you up or anything but you might identify with the protagonist. As long as you're doing better than him, you're doing alright.
Hang in there, baby.
If you're into reading, I can recommend "No Longer Human" by Osamu Dazai. It won't cheer you up or anything but you might identify with the protagonist. As long as you're doing better than him, you're doing alright.
Hang in there, baby.
But you got a Job and can take care of yourself. I'd say that is the goal over all. I should make sure you know I love you and make sure you're independent and can take care of yourself. But if I had ot only pick one. I'd pick the latter.
Surely there must be a line you can take between letting them use their free time how they want, and enabling them to never need to do anything else.
What my parents did with me when I was 18 is: I could love at home rent free if I was enrolled in classes at university, or I could start paying rent.
Frankly, I don't see much of a problem with someone staying at home into adulthood, many cultures do that already. However the caveat is usually they have to contribute to the household, either with rent or housework or whatever. I don't see that as a problem.
What my parents did with me when I was 18 is: I could love at home rent free if I was enrolled in classes at university, or I could start paying rent.
Frankly, I don't see much of a problem with someone staying at home into adulthood, many cultures do that already. However the caveat is usually they have to contribute to the household, either with rent or housework or whatever. I don't see that as a problem.
So the trope goes at least. I wonder how many cases are actually like that though.
Anecdotally, one of my childhood friends turned out like this. He scraped by doing a worthless game design degree before moving back home and staying there AFAIK. I think the root cause was mental, but none of us (his old friend group) knew how to help.
SO it should be out of the house for him.
An 18-year-old is an adult. Parents have no right to enforce computer time restrictions on their adult children and should not try to.
Warning: This is a very American opinion so know that I realize that many people don't feel this way.
If my kid is 18 and living at home, I have some say in the life. If they want 0 say, they can find their own way. Obviously, I don't give a rat's ass that my 18 year old games becasue as long as they have a healthy lifestyle, I'm glad they're enjoying themselves but if they're starting to become a hermit and losing friends, not working, not taking care of their health, etc, then they're going to have some pressure from me.
You don't get to live off the teet and also not listen at all.
If my kid is 18 and living at home, I have some say in the life. If they want 0 say, they can find their own way. Obviously, I don't give a rat's ass that my 18 year old games becasue as long as they have a healthy lifestyle, I'm glad they're enjoying themselves but if they're starting to become a hermit and losing friends, not working, not taking care of their health, etc, then they're going to have some pressure from me.
You don't get to live off the teet and also not listen at all.
The way this is phrased makes it sound unreasonably judgmental, all stick and no carrot. If anyone had spoken to me like this at 18 I'd have been furious. There's not a word of how you might help the kid be less of a hermit, lose less friends, find a job, take care of themselves. Just "some pressure". Who do you think is responsible for the kid being the way they are? Thanks for prefacing it with a warning, I'm wishing I hadn't disregarded it.
> There's not a word of how you might help the kid be less of a hermit, lose less friends, find a job, take care of themselves.
I understand your comment and I just want to say that my comment is assuming we're past that point that you're talking about. I didn't want to write an article. Some kids can be stubborn. Anecdote: My great grandma tried that with my great uncle (all carrot) and he lived in her basement playing videos games until he died of a heart attack. I thought he had the best life because he got to be lazy, but it didn't server him very well. The end. Being a pushover and being considerate is a very fine line that is easy to fuck up.
I understand your comment and I just want to say that my comment is assuming we're past that point that you're talking about. I didn't want to write an article. Some kids can be stubborn. Anecdote: My great grandma tried that with my great uncle (all carrot) and he lived in her basement playing videos games until he died of a heart attack. I thought he had the best life because he got to be lazy, but it didn't server him very well. The end. Being a pushover and being considerate is a very fine line that is easy to fuck up.
I'm not saying you should only give out carrots, either. I just think assuming the responsibility lies on the kid to behave correctly doesn't make sense.
Spot on! I have a kid roughly that age who plays VGs. As long as he works, has a plan for his life (school) , helps around home and spends time with friends (face to face), he can play VGs. VGs actually gives me leverage if he doesn't something wrong. If he's living at home, I have some say so in his life. I encourage him to stay home, at least for the next few years. For him, he saves money and life is easier (eats well, laundry, etc), and for me, I get to help form him in a critical part in his life.
>no right to enforce
If you want to go down the "no right" path...
Assuming the adult(child) is not contributing financially to living expenses, the child has no right to an internet connection, electricity, room & board, usage of any equipment that they do not own, etc. So while the parent has no right to tell their adult child what to do with their time, the adult child has no right to free resources.
If you want to go down the "no right" path...
Assuming the adult(child) is not contributing financially to living expenses, the child has no right to an internet connection, electricity, room & board, usage of any equipment that they do not own, etc. So while the parent has no right to tell their adult child what to do with their time, the adult child has no right to free resources.
Exactly. They are an adult so should be self-sufficient and support themselves.
If said 18 year old has the money to live on their own and play video games, all the more power to ‘em!
But seriously, the computer isn’t the issue. Kid needs to start pulling their own weight or they’re going to be in for a rude awakening.
If said 18 year old has the money to live on their own and play video games, all the more power to ‘em!
But seriously, the computer isn’t the issue. Kid needs to start pulling their own weight or they’re going to be in for a rude awakening.
If the 18 year old is not self-supporting (ie lives at home, does not pay own expenses) the parent has every right to make restrictions on how the child spends their time.
Nope, no and never.. They are an adult person, not a thing you own.
Certainly you have the right to expect some participation in the household, chores, standards of cleanliness, safety, noise etc, just as you would any other person living under your roof (boarder etc).
You no longer have the right to define their schedule, gender, religion or personal preference. In short they have the right to make their own mistakes, you can try to guide, but you can no longer enforce, beyond inviting them to leave your home. I would suggest that you may want to compromise and keep your ability to influence and guide, rather than giving them the boot and forcing them into the world.
Certainly you have the right to expect some participation in the household, chores, standards of cleanliness, safety, noise etc, just as you would any other person living under your roof (boarder etc).
You no longer have the right to define their schedule, gender, religion or personal preference. In short they have the right to make their own mistakes, you can try to guide, but you can no longer enforce, beyond inviting them to leave your home. I would suggest that you may want to compromise and keep your ability to influence and guide, rather than giving them the boot and forcing them into the world.
Flip side, parents don't have to provide room and board, or power. And if it is their computer, they don't have to provide access to it.
And that would make them an atrocious parent.
A major aspect of parenting teenagers is about establishing boundaries and instilling an appreciation of consequences. I was simply pointing out that if the adult teenager plays the "it's my computer" / "it's my life" card, then the parents have cards they can play.
Letting a child, adult or otherwise, play video games 8 hours a day, is not going to have a positive outcome for the child. I have great sympathy. We were very permissive parents and our kids were not in a good space, mid-teens. We now have much better relationships with our kids, and they with each other. Fortunately we could afford counseling, coaching and group coaching. Establishing boundaries and consequences was step one.
Letting a child, adult or otherwise, play video games 8 hours a day, is not going to have a positive outcome for the child. I have great sympathy. We were very permissive parents and our kids were not in a good space, mid-teens. We now have much better relationships with our kids, and they with each other. Fortunately we could afford counseling, coaching and group coaching. Establishing boundaries and consequences was step one.
Yes, if they're bothered enough by it, kick him out of the house. You're a grown-up now, figure it out.
If the child is really an adult, they should contribute to the house like one. They don’t get a free ride of autonomy without the responsibility.
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> “18-year-old child”
?? Legally an adult. Which leads to the obvious question of adult responsibilities. Do they have a job?
Other then that, what are this young adult’s alternatives? Outside activity may have costs they can not afford. Activities may be located far from home. Do they have adequate transportation choices? What are their friends doing? Are their friends online also? Or do they only have online friends? In which case they need community. Being online is a low-cost, easy option that’s hard to beat for a broke kid without a car.
Finally, if you want someone to make better choices for how they spend their time, you might need to spend time with them. Find things to do together. Invest your time in learning what interests them, and feed their curiosity. (Just don’t make it about guns, please.)
Yes. It’s possible, but short of kicking them out of the house, what can you do? Besides, as I recall there are not many things 18 yros do which aren’t to excess and prolly not good for them—-which beggars the question, is this behavior so bad?
?? Legally an adult. Which leads to the obvious question of adult responsibilities. Do they have a job?
Other then that, what are this young adult’s alternatives? Outside activity may have costs they can not afford. Activities may be located far from home. Do they have adequate transportation choices? What are their friends doing? Are their friends online also? Or do they only have online friends? In which case they need community. Being online is a low-cost, easy option that’s hard to beat for a broke kid without a car.
Finally, if you want someone to make better choices for how they spend their time, you might need to spend time with them. Find things to do together. Invest your time in learning what interests them, and feed their curiosity. (Just don’t make it about guns, please.)
Yes. It’s possible, but short of kicking them out of the house, what can you do? Besides, as I recall there are not many things 18 yros do which aren’t to excess and prolly not good for them—-which beggars the question, is this behavior so bad?
I spent more time than that around that age and everything was fine. Not saying it's always fine but more context would give you better answers here.
What games are they playing? Anything competitively? What anime are they watching? Do they talk to friends / discuss them online? Do they get excited by it?
Your friend could try to engage with them around their kids interests instead of taking them away and forcing other things that may not be of any interest and just stress their relationship.
Maybe it was a lot but I turned out fine... in my case I was playing DotA / TF2 competitively at the time and so I learned a lot of transferable skills (that come to anyone that competes at a reasonable level), even though "I was in front of the computer for a long time", which is exactly how my parents would have described it.
I watched movies and anime a lot in "front of the computer" but I had communities online to discuss them and engaged with them deeply (i.e. not just a mindless activity). Here I was lucky that I had friends to talk to / watch with.
It all depends really and I would push back to understand if their child's time on the computer is actually wasted.
Also, 18 year old isn't really a teen anymore... basically an adult!
For the record I don't spend that much time these days but my interests just sort of shifted as I grew older naturally to other things, but the way the post is phrased just makes me wonder if it's actually a bad thing...
What games are they playing? Anything competitively? What anime are they watching? Do they talk to friends / discuss them online? Do they get excited by it?
Your friend could try to engage with them around their kids interests instead of taking them away and forcing other things that may not be of any interest and just stress their relationship.
Maybe it was a lot but I turned out fine... in my case I was playing DotA / TF2 competitively at the time and so I learned a lot of transferable skills (that come to anyone that competes at a reasonable level), even though "I was in front of the computer for a long time", which is exactly how my parents would have described it.
I watched movies and anime a lot in "front of the computer" but I had communities online to discuss them and engaged with them deeply (i.e. not just a mindless activity). Here I was lucky that I had friends to talk to / watch with.
It all depends really and I would push back to understand if their child's time on the computer is actually wasted.
Also, 18 year old isn't really a teen anymore... basically an adult!
For the record I don't spend that much time these days but my interests just sort of shifted as I grew older naturally to other things, but the way the post is phrased just makes me wonder if it's actually a bad thing...
No context given, how do you expect reasonable answers?
Just some things that would majorly influence what the appropriate actions would be:
1) Does the 18 y/o (an adult, by the way!) have a job already, and this is how they spend their free time?
2) Have the family tried the revolutionary tactic of talking to each other about their concerns?
2a) If so, what were the results of the conversations?
3) Is there other influencing factors (e.g. social anxiety, other underlying medical conditions, etc.) that aren't being addressed?
4) Did the behavior start recently? If so, what triggered the change? If not, why is it suddenly a problem?
5) What is the end goal? Have them move out? Have them be more physically fit? Contribute more to the household?
Edit:
Reading through some of these comments is disheartening. It sounds like a bunch of managers figuring out the best ways to discipline an employee rather than parents trying to foster healthy relationships with their kids and encourage healthy lifestyles. Being a parent requires effort, not just stripping your kids of every luxury or slightly positive aspect of their life until they become the model robot/employee.
Just some things that would majorly influence what the appropriate actions would be:
1) Does the 18 y/o (an adult, by the way!) have a job already, and this is how they spend their free time?
2) Have the family tried the revolutionary tactic of talking to each other about their concerns?
2a) If so, what were the results of the conversations?
3) Is there other influencing factors (e.g. social anxiety, other underlying medical conditions, etc.) that aren't being addressed?
4) Did the behavior start recently? If so, what triggered the change? If not, why is it suddenly a problem?
5) What is the end goal? Have them move out? Have them be more physically fit? Contribute more to the household?
Edit:
Reading through some of these comments is disheartening. It sounds like a bunch of managers figuring out the best ways to discipline an employee rather than parents trying to foster healthy relationships with their kids and encourage healthy lifestyles. Being a parent requires effort, not just stripping your kids of every luxury or slightly positive aspect of their life until they become the model robot/employee.
No.
Should have done this years before when kid was an actual kid, not a young adult.
Is the relationship with the parents good? If yes then maybe try taking him to the gym, going camping/on a hike etc. Once you realize that you can get dopamine from sources other than a screen it becomes easier to break that cycle of addiction.
The actual root cause to me sounds like lack of fulfillment or maybe social anxiety. You can't just take away the computer if you don't have anything to replace it with.
The actual root cause to me sounds like lack of fulfillment or maybe social anxiety. You can't just take away the computer if you don't have anything to replace it with.
Don't restrict his access, he is 18, you do more harm than good to go that way. Tell him that you are worried and offer him alternatives.
What measures "healthy"?
Most "healthy" individuals indulge in addiction: television, food, news.
What do the parents hope for the kid's future? What makes a good life? Why is it bad that someone spends 9+ hours a day on the computer when that's the standard for all software engineers?
What do they hope to accomplish by restricting internet time? What does the kid want for the future?
Most "healthy" individuals indulge in addiction: television, food, news.
What do the parents hope for the kid's future? What makes a good life? Why is it bad that someone spends 9+ hours a day on the computer when that's the standard for all software engineers?
What do they hope to accomplish by restricting internet time? What does the kid want for the future?
The parents should've taken action when this first started, not after it became a habit/addiction. Not that this helps you find your solution.
Aside from what others said, is the environment where he live good enough for outdoor activities? Like parks, public sport playgrounds, bicycle lanes, lake/river across the city and so on? Because if not, you can't do much. If yes, the best option would be spending some time together outdoor or having some interesting experiences together (climbing, tenis...).
There is no such thing as an 18 year old child.
Either let them decide for themselves because they're an adult, or kick them out so they live on their own and decide for themselves because they're an adult, but in either case, they decide for themselves because they're an adult.
Hint: they decide for themselves, because they're an adult.
Either let them decide for themselves because they're an adult, or kick them out so they live on their own and decide for themselves because they're an adult, but in either case, they decide for themselves because they're an adult.
Hint: they decide for themselves, because they're an adult.
i rerouted his computers connections to a linux box that adds a random 100-1000ms delay on packets and limits bandwidth. I guess we have bad internet kid, maybe if you get a job we can afford better internet. It's ok he'll never find out
lol
it actually works, now he goes out with friends and stuff, before was 12h/day stuck playing LoL
At 18 I was probably spending 9h+ a day on the computer, playing games and watching anime mixed with creative stuff. I wasn't depressed, and I don't look back and go "oh that was wasted time" or whatever. I can't believe every post here is so negative.
If he's _actually_ depressed, is unable to make progress on life goals, can't go to school, can't get a job, doesn't have friends etc, then absolutely. But nothing like that is mentioned in the original post.
If he's _actually_ depressed, is unable to make progress on life goals, can't go to school, can't get a job, doesn't have friends etc, then absolutely. But nothing like that is mentioned in the original post.
While an 18 year old is not as mature as we are, when you start talking about computer restrictions I think it's very important to realize that we're actually talking about an 18-year-old adult. Let the guy does what he wants, this is absurd!
(fwiw I spent about that much time on the computer at that age and I turned out fine)
EDIT: OP is sparse on details, if this is a "won't get a job, makes mommy pay for everything" situation then that does warrant some form of action, but then the computer is not the cause of the issue - someone who refused to get a job and spent 9 hours a day reading economy text books would still be a problem. There might be social anxiety or depression or some such at play - talk to the guy, be gentle, be supportive, seek professional help if it's really a serious problem.
If the guy is in school you really just don't have a basis to hassle him about what he does in his free time. "My house, my rules" is the creed of authoritarianism parents, trying to dictate the life of an 18 year old will only foster resentment.
(fwiw I spent about that much time on the computer at that age and I turned out fine)
EDIT: OP is sparse on details, if this is a "won't get a job, makes mommy pay for everything" situation then that does warrant some form of action, but then the computer is not the cause of the issue - someone who refused to get a job and spent 9 hours a day reading economy text books would still be a problem. There might be social anxiety or depression or some such at play - talk to the guy, be gentle, be supportive, seek professional help if it's really a serious problem.
If the guy is in school you really just don't have a basis to hassle him about what he does in his free time. "My house, my rules" is the creed of authoritarianism parents, trying to dictate the life of an 18 year old will only foster resentment.
I was this kid because I wanted nothing to do with my abusive parents.
Please don’t be an enabler.
Please don’t be an enabler.
I was like this and went on for years. I personally have always had problems with social anxiety. Go join a jujitsu club and go with him/her and build their confidence. Don’t restrict them as they’ll just double down and at the end of the day they are who they are and they are 18 and very unlikely to listen to their parents until they are way older.
That ship has sailed. This behavior did not start at 18. If parents are still confidently in a position they feel they can "parent" (doubtful), then one option is to create alternatives rather than mere restrictions, i.e. sign them up for extra-curriculars. Otherwise, unless this legal adult wants to change, they won't.
Firstly, not many kids and young adults are capable of assessing and understanding what they "truly want".
Secondly, someone "truly wanting" something does not always make that "something" good or correct. When I was an adolescent myself, there were several things that I "truly wanted", which would have led me down paths of ruin.
Thirdly, engaging the adolescent / young adult in productive ways - that don't necessarily need computers - is one thing that I have seen to be demonstrably beneficial. This involves a certain degree of interaction with them and doing things together.
All the best!
Secondly, someone "truly wanting" something does not always make that "something" good or correct. When I was an adolescent myself, there were several things that I "truly wanted", which would have led me down paths of ruin.
Thirdly, engaging the adolescent / young adult in productive ways - that don't necessarily need computers - is one thing that I have seen to be demonstrably beneficial. This involves a certain degree of interaction with them and doing things together.
All the best!
Some ideas:
* Ask about non computer interests and support the heck out of them
* Ask about career and life goals and support the heck out of them
* Help them buy a car if they need one
* Require a small amount of rent each month so they need to hold a job. Bonus points for saving this rent money and gifting it back to them when they eventually move out on their own.
* family therapy could be a good option if communication is difficult or strained
It’s less about strict limits on computer time and more about not enabling the behavior and providing support and guidance towards more responsibility and independence.
Also, if they are self sufficient and thriving then how they spend their time shouldn’t matter.
* Ask about non computer interests and support the heck out of them
* Ask about career and life goals and support the heck out of them
* Help them buy a car if they need one
* Require a small amount of rent each month so they need to hold a job. Bonus points for saving this rent money and gifting it back to them when they eventually move out on their own.
* family therapy could be a good option if communication is difficult or strained
It’s less about strict limits on computer time and more about not enabling the behavior and providing support and guidance towards more responsibility and independence.
Also, if they are self sufficient and thriving then how they spend their time shouldn’t matter.
I had a full time job at 18. Probably time to give them the ol' ultimatum.
Get him a girlfriend.
What is OP supposed to do, take this guy down to the Girlfriend Store and have him pick one he likes off the rack? You know women don't actually work like that, right?
You do know that there are places where you can rent them by the hour don't you?
Yes, I do. My father dragged me to one when I was 16 because he thought it was time I "became a man". I spent half an hour Holden Caulfielding the poor woman instead.
Removing computer time won’t help without replacing it with something else.
What are they proposing he do with his time instead?
What are they proposing he do with his time instead?
As a kid coming fresh out of a similar phase at 18, now 22 I might be able to provide some insight from my self reflection.
First off if your kid is medicated especially with high dose ADHD medication it is likely way over prescribed, and to deal with the literal mental overclocking storm the best way is to have an environment and stimuli you have complete control over, IE a computer in a room.
Secondly as somebody else mentioned the child has likely been emotionally neglected, not only by their parents but by their peers. Its very hard to fit in these days and with social media it is overly apparent when you do not. Looking back the best thing that helped me claw my way out of the funk caused by this is most importantly that I wanted to, and secondly that my parents cared enough to try and involve me in social programs. One of the blessings of being young is that when you are forced into situations by your parents such as clubs or social circles, you have no need to justify being there. It sucks at first but it really helps. Also if theyre obese A health coach would be a great first step.
If the young adult is defiant and very hard headed, forcing them to get a job will likely not work, but if theyre just soft getting them a job where they work with others is a great way to foster social intelligence.
TLDR: If theyre from a rough and emotionally neglected background, be tender and encourage growth. If theyre from an easygoing and supportive background, be harsh and force them to grow.
First off if your kid is medicated especially with high dose ADHD medication it is likely way over prescribed, and to deal with the literal mental overclocking storm the best way is to have an environment and stimuli you have complete control over, IE a computer in a room.
Secondly as somebody else mentioned the child has likely been emotionally neglected, not only by their parents but by their peers. Its very hard to fit in these days and with social media it is overly apparent when you do not. Looking back the best thing that helped me claw my way out of the funk caused by this is most importantly that I wanted to, and secondly that my parents cared enough to try and involve me in social programs. One of the blessings of being young is that when you are forced into situations by your parents such as clubs or social circles, you have no need to justify being there. It sucks at first but it really helps. Also if theyre obese A health coach would be a great first step.
If the young adult is defiant and very hard headed, forcing them to get a job will likely not work, but if theyre just soft getting them a job where they work with others is a great way to foster social intelligence.
TLDR: If theyre from a rough and emotionally neglected background, be tender and encourage growth. If theyre from an easygoing and supportive background, be harsh and force them to grow.
18 is an age where a person needs to be transitioning into adulthood and the behaviours and responsibilities that go along with that. That means less time on the leisure activities associated with the common teenager (like spending all day playing computer games and watching YouTube), and more time on choosing and investing time in a career or education pathway.
And if that child is not getting the message that the time for that is now, then it's up to the parents to enforce that boundary.
And if that child is not getting the message that the time for that is now, then it's up to the parents to enforce that boundary.
When my 3 kids were teenagers (though younger than 18) I had an Asus Router that had pretty good access controls, I assume most Asus Routers still have the same controls. You could actually limit internet access by MAC address to certain times of day. For all of my kids' devices (phones, video game consoles, computers) I found their MAC address in the table in the router management website and limited the devices internet access to just a couple of hours a day that we agreed the kids could have screen time. For the most part it was easy enough to figure out which device was which, for a couple I had to do a little experimenting like just cutting off MAC addresses while they were playing a game until I heard yelling (;
I agree with the sentiment here that this is no substitute for parenting and having an actual conversation with your kids. But it is a tool that you can use to enforce you're rules. I caught my boys on multiple occasions playing video games late on school nights after we had gone to bed, and this was after we had discussed with them not playing games on school nights. Shutting down their internet access at the router put an end to the problem and grades came back up fairly quickly after that.
I agree with the sentiment here that this is no substitute for parenting and having an actual conversation with your kids. But it is a tool that you can use to enforce you're rules. I caught my boys on multiple occasions playing video games late on school nights after we had gone to bed, and this was after we had discussed with them not playing games on school nights. Shutting down their internet access at the router put an end to the problem and grades came back up fairly quickly after that.
Make not being in front of their computer more enticing (unless you want to pursue the alternative: coercion).
If not in front of their computer, what would they fill their time with? What would they do, if only they didn’t have some other roadblock — and what exactly is stoping them?
I know for me at that age, the computer represented a means for endless intellectual stimulation (between the endless depth and breadth of software dev, 3D modeling, mastering/exploiting game mechanics, etc). Books on their own held no value to me, as I’m interested in doing — not merely rote memorization — so you couldn’t have paid me enough to sit with my nose in a book all day.
My other “options” weren’t really options at all. I had crippling anxiety, so going out with (or making) friends was not a very appealing idea, when I could instead get lost in my own thoughts without assuming any risk.
Does their child have similar challenges? If so, maybe address that first. Help them discover and unlock activities that, perhaps with a bit of initial work on their part, will be every bit as satisfying (if not more so) than sitting in front of a glowing rectangle all day.
If not in front of their computer, what would they fill their time with? What would they do, if only they didn’t have some other roadblock — and what exactly is stoping them?
I know for me at that age, the computer represented a means for endless intellectual stimulation (between the endless depth and breadth of software dev, 3D modeling, mastering/exploiting game mechanics, etc). Books on their own held no value to me, as I’m interested in doing — not merely rote memorization — so you couldn’t have paid me enough to sit with my nose in a book all day.
My other “options” weren’t really options at all. I had crippling anxiety, so going out with (or making) friends was not a very appealing idea, when I could instead get lost in my own thoughts without assuming any risk.
Does their child have similar challenges? If so, maybe address that first. Help them discover and unlock activities that, perhaps with a bit of initial work on their part, will be every bit as satisfying (if not more so) than sitting in front of a glowing rectangle all day.
This is almost not a child question but a question about any friend/person you care about. They're old enough that just setting restrictions is going to make them replace one unhealthy habit with another if the underlying issue is not fixed. Is it really better if you forcibly take away the computer and they replace it with going to pool halls all day?
If I had a friend that was wasting their life away, I'd try to find out what they were interested in doing in this decade or 5 years of their life and then I'd try to help them and motivate them to begin on it. You'd then probably have to actively try to help along the way because they probably don't have the skills yet to push through at every single minor roadblock they might hit. Basically you'll have to repeat this motivation/help hourly, then daily then weekly for a long time.
"People discount motivational speeches because it doesn't last. Well, neither does bathing and that's why we recommend it daily." -zig ziglar
If I had a friend that was wasting their life away, I'd try to find out what they were interested in doing in this decade or 5 years of their life and then I'd try to help them and motivate them to begin on it. You'd then probably have to actively try to help along the way because they probably don't have the skills yet to push through at every single minor roadblock they might hit. Basically you'll have to repeat this motivation/help hourly, then daily then weekly for a long time.
"People discount motivational speeches because it doesn't last. Well, neither does bathing and that's why we recommend it daily." -zig ziglar
There are a lot of people in this thread who don't have any idea what it's like to be 18 these days, especially in the US.
I'm in my mid twenties and most of my generation is anxious or depressed, if not passively suicidal.
The safety net has been dismantled. The planet is burning. Upward mobility seems like a thing of the past.
If you don't want to listen to the kid, at least let them lie flat.
I'm in my mid twenties and most of my generation is anxious or depressed, if not passively suicidal.
The safety net has been dismantled. The planet is burning. Upward mobility seems like a thing of the past.
If you don't want to listen to the kid, at least let them lie flat.
> The planet is burning.
It has been for decades, people are just more vocal about it these days.
> Upward mobility seems like a thing of the past.
Swings and roundabouts; again every few decades this gets easier then worse.
...
Live your best life; Try not to stress about stuff you have no ability to change.
It has been for decades, people are just more vocal about it these days.
> Upward mobility seems like a thing of the past.
Swings and roundabouts; again every few decades this gets easier then worse.
...
Live your best life; Try not to stress about stuff you have no ability to change.
> The safety net has been dismantled. The planet is burning. Upward mobility seems like a thing of the past.
…and the Soviets are going to invade Any Day Now™.
…and the Soviets are going to invade Any Day Now™.
Easy to understand consequences.
For instance, my 17 year old once let his friend drive our car. He lost driving privileges for a week. Did not happen again.
For excessive computer use, the 18 year old looses access to home-cooked meals, driving the car, money, laundry, etc. You could also tie it directly to the computer, such as limiting wifi or phone connectivity if usage goes above a certain level.
For instance, my 17 year old once let his friend drive our car. He lost driving privileges for a week. Did not happen again.
For excessive computer use, the 18 year old looses access to home-cooked meals, driving the car, money, laundry, etc. You could also tie it directly to the computer, such as limiting wifi or phone connectivity if usage goes above a certain level.
Just take time with the kid?
I'm not a parent. I was however very involved with popular education (youth camp counselor, science camp counselor, association "the small resourceful" (probably poor translation, but w/e).
Unengaged kids are unengaged because no one tries too engage them (nice repetition here). Because this is tiring to seemingly always talk to a wall and get nothing in response. But you never really talk to a wall. The correct way to go through that, as i learned, is to honestly talk to them in a safe place for them. I know "safe place" seems politically incorrect because of this weird cultural battle in the US, but for teenagers this is a real thing, and also is not really a place but rather a mix time and an atmosphere that you should be able to set. It won't change their attitude, but you will get more honest responses, and they will at least try to play nice.
Ask the kid if he wants to try a new hobby. Any solo sport where the culture is positive and engaging, like most sailing/river sports, but also rock climbing or trail running (i'm not sure if its called that). You probably have sport camp for adults in your country where they let the participant in relative autonomy and just teach him the basics. My favorite would be hydrospeed, catamaran, rock climbing and kayaking (both river and sea, sport in river, guided roaming at sea), but i have not yet tested every existing sports, only a dozen. Surfing/parasailing/windsurfing might take too much time to engage with.
Another way, and my father taught me that early, is to bring them to your job or to your hobbies. (personnal anecdata was useless, too precise and removed). If you can, it might help? This i am not 100% sure, because it only work if you're a parent, and the only anecdata i have are me and my siblings (worked for the 3 of us). The safe place though, it worked 100% of the time.
I'm not a parent. I was however very involved with popular education (youth camp counselor, science camp counselor, association "the small resourceful" (probably poor translation, but w/e).
Unengaged kids are unengaged because no one tries too engage them (nice repetition here). Because this is tiring to seemingly always talk to a wall and get nothing in response. But you never really talk to a wall. The correct way to go through that, as i learned, is to honestly talk to them in a safe place for them. I know "safe place" seems politically incorrect because of this weird cultural battle in the US, but for teenagers this is a real thing, and also is not really a place but rather a mix time and an atmosphere that you should be able to set. It won't change their attitude, but you will get more honest responses, and they will at least try to play nice.
Ask the kid if he wants to try a new hobby. Any solo sport where the culture is positive and engaging, like most sailing/river sports, but also rock climbing or trail running (i'm not sure if its called that). You probably have sport camp for adults in your country where they let the participant in relative autonomy and just teach him the basics. My favorite would be hydrospeed, catamaran, rock climbing and kayaking (both river and sea, sport in river, guided roaming at sea), but i have not yet tested every existing sports, only a dozen. Surfing/parasailing/windsurfing might take too much time to engage with.
Another way, and my father taught me that early, is to bring them to your job or to your hobbies. (personnal anecdata was useless, too precise and removed). If you can, it might help? This i am not 100% sure, because it only work if you're a parent, and the only anecdata i have are me and my siblings (worked for the 3 of us). The safe place though, it worked 100% of the time.
Introduce him to some girls. Hormones will get him out of the house. Other than that, tell him to get a job/start charging rent.
Putting it bluntly, the parents should have have been limiting screen time for this 'child' over 10 years ago. This problem didn't happen overnight. It's too late now to re-program the 'child', unless they themselves actually want to change.
I'm sorry, but this is 100% a parenting fail.
Source: I'm a parent of two 20-somethings.
I'm sorry, but this is 100% a parenting fail.
Source: I'm a parent of two 20-somethings.
If they are interested in computers, work with them to find an in-person (not online!) class at the local community college that they want to take and help them start taking classes they want to take.
If they are interested in taking easy college classes, open up the college course plan PDF and search for all the classes with the words "Introduction", "Beginning" etc in the name. They might like taking a "History through Film" class where they get to watch movies for general education credits. Make sure to pick in-person classes. Using the college name and professor name, look for easy teachers on https://www.ratemyprofessors.com
If they are in high school or want to go to college or are otherwise agreeable, sign them up for a tutor a few days week for math tutoring, English tutoring, general SAT or AP tutoring, whatever general subject they like or are willing to try, to get them out of the house and interacting with somebody. Find a tutor they like. Make sure they are happy with it and feel like they are learning something after a few classes.
Talk to them about what their life plans are. Do they plan on getting a job? Do they want to eventually get their own place? Do they want to possibly buy a house some day? What do they plan on doing when their parents are gone? Take it a little bit at a time. Lots of people can't handle discussing too much about these topics at once.
If you can get them active and out of the house, be happy about it, don't sweat them not having it all figured out, the vast majority of people don't. Discuss these subjects bit by bit as the opportunity arises.
Another item which depending on the household wildly varies, definitely make sure they don't have their parents credit card (for basically living worry free and buying all of their online subscriptions and games at their parents expense). Don't do an allowance. Pay for chores, work around the house, and finishing various tasks.
If they are interested in taking easy college classes, open up the college course plan PDF and search for all the classes with the words "Introduction", "Beginning" etc in the name. They might like taking a "History through Film" class where they get to watch movies for general education credits. Make sure to pick in-person classes. Using the college name and professor name, look for easy teachers on https://www.ratemyprofessors.com
If they are in high school or want to go to college or are otherwise agreeable, sign them up for a tutor a few days week for math tutoring, English tutoring, general SAT or AP tutoring, whatever general subject they like or are willing to try, to get them out of the house and interacting with somebody. Find a tutor they like. Make sure they are happy with it and feel like they are learning something after a few classes.
Talk to them about what their life plans are. Do they plan on getting a job? Do they want to eventually get their own place? Do they want to possibly buy a house some day? What do they plan on doing when their parents are gone? Take it a little bit at a time. Lots of people can't handle discussing too much about these topics at once.
If you can get them active and out of the house, be happy about it, don't sweat them not having it all figured out, the vast majority of people don't. Discuss these subjects bit by bit as the opportunity arises.
Another item which depending on the household wildly varies, definitely make sure they don't have their parents credit card (for basically living worry free and buying all of their online subscriptions and games at their parents expense). Don't do an allowance. Pay for chores, work around the house, and finishing various tasks.
What do you actually want them to do, instead of using the computer? I presume they have no job, and friends generally aren't available during the day due to school or work.
There are activities that you can do during the day, but aside from taking a walk, they tend to require those un-available friends, or cost money.
There are activities that you can do during the day, but aside from taking a walk, they tend to require those un-available friends, or cost money.
If they live in a pretty typical North American suburb where a car is required to do anything it is a pretty inevitable outcome for most kids. When you literally can’t do anything without getting your parents to drive you somewhere, you turn to the computer. At this point the habit is hard to break.
I'm obviously missing something here. 18yrs old = Adult in most parts of the world.
Is the problem that they are playing games, or is the problem that they are not supporting themselves and spending their time in an activity that you consider to be time wasting?
At some point people become responsible for their own actions, this depends upon the person, but in most cases 18 is the age where they make decisions about sex, alcohol consumption (in most of the world) and most other activities participated in by adults.
If this person (not child) is doing something you don't like under your roof then it's your responsibility as others have suggested, to talk to them like an adult and explain your concerns rather than start a war of attrition that you will almost certainly lose.
Is the problem that they are playing games, or is the problem that they are not supporting themselves and spending their time in an activity that you consider to be time wasting?
At some point people become responsible for their own actions, this depends upon the person, but in most cases 18 is the age where they make decisions about sex, alcohol consumption (in most of the world) and most other activities participated in by adults.
If this person (not child) is doing something you don't like under your roof then it's your responsibility as others have suggested, to talk to them like an adult and explain your concerns rather than start a war of attrition that you will almost certainly lose.
Instead of focusing on computer use, have your relatives set up some rules to continue living at home and largely letting go. This could mean staying enrolled in courses or working a set number of hours in a job.
Spending all day being unproductive is a warning sign so bring up the option of therapy.
Spending all day being unproductive is a warning sign so bring up the option of therapy.
I'm esl and from phone, but this story is important.
My best friend brother was in the same situation, 18, all day on pc, anime.
People around him would tell the kid to do this or that.
Thing is, if a kid is stuck, he doesn't know how to unstuck. He doesn't know how to do this or that thing that seems so easy to people with a place in society.
So, on my specific indications(I'm truly a savior of the NEETs), the brother spent an afternoon with the kid compiling a resume and also subscribing him to various youth employment programs. A few months later the kid had a job thanks to that afternoon.
Moral of the story: don't tell others what to do, help them do it, especially if they are kids.
Moral of the story: don't tell others what to do, help them do it, especially if they are kids.
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There's not enough information here to help nor is there any leverage OP (or really the parents) could use to change their behaviour without threatening their relationship with the kid.
If it is an addiction like behaviour the person needs to see the negative impact their addiction has on their life and what they love before they are willing to change.
I bet this kid had free access to screens since they were very little.
Why doesn't this kid have a job? Why doesn't the kid have a social life or other responsibilities that takes them outside? Are they special needs, physically or mentally? Are they being solely supported by their parents?
It sounds harsh, but tell your relative "The horse has long left the barn."
If it is an addiction like behaviour the person needs to see the negative impact their addiction has on their life and what they love before they are willing to change.
I bet this kid had free access to screens since they were very little.
Why doesn't this kid have a job? Why doesn't the kid have a social life or other responsibilities that takes them outside? Are they special needs, physically or mentally? Are they being solely supported by their parents?
It sounds harsh, but tell your relative "The horse has long left the barn."
First of all, I’m on your side and my heart tells you that I would love the answer to be yes. But I would like you to consider it from another filter.
The way I look at it is: no. If you think about what you’re asking, what you seem to be looking for is a way to manipulate someone’s brain so it does something they don’t want to do. Literal mind control.
The only likely ways to get what you want are to sell a life outside at least partially outside of the computer so compelling is that someone with your genes could be properly persuaded, or to set an example for yourself so powerful that they would want to follow it voluntarily.
The way I look at it is: no. If you think about what you’re asking, what you seem to be looking for is a way to manipulate someone’s brain so it does something they don’t want to do. Literal mind control.
The only likely ways to get what you want are to sell a life outside at least partially outside of the computer so compelling is that someone with your genes could be properly persuaded, or to set an example for yourself so powerful that they would want to follow it voluntarily.
They're an adult... what on earth are the parents doing locking away another adult's computer? Time to let your kid make their own choices. The time for limiting screen time is long gone.
I used to be that teen, I wish I could be again, 9 hours of lovely me time per day.. now I get 30 minutes during the evening when I'm exhausted from work and family life.
I'd say let them enjoy it while it lasts..
I'd say let them enjoy it while it lasts..
I got to live alone for days at a time when I was 17 finishing high school. I'd play Dark Age of Camelot on my 28k modem and browse Slashdot. But whenever my mom or dad was able to return home they'd make me go outside with them. Hikes, bike rides, and walks. They'd never outright push me alone out of the house but I'd sometimes walk down the street to hang out in the public libraries computer lab with school friends.
Start small and then escalate to cord cutting, but be resigned to them playing Runescape on a public machine regardless.
Start small and then escalate to cord cutting, but be resigned to them playing Runescape on a public machine regardless.
Is the goal for the 18 year old to get a job or to socialize more, or what?
Not a parent, but I was once that guy.
He might be depressed, so some therapy might be in order.
He's 18 year old, so he's an adult. Taking stuff he owns from him is not good. But the parents can take whatever they own from him, even the right to live at their parent's home.
So, the best course of action (in addition to explore some therapy for him) might be for the parents to negotiate with their son from a position of strength. If he doesn't like what is being suggested to him, he's free to get a place to live by himself. His home, his rules.
He might be depressed, so some therapy might be in order.
He's 18 year old, so he's an adult. Taking stuff he owns from him is not good. But the parents can take whatever they own from him, even the right to live at their parent's home.
So, the best course of action (in addition to explore some therapy for him) might be for the parents to negotiate with their son from a position of strength. If he doesn't like what is being suggested to him, he's free to get a place to live by himself. His home, his rules.
IMO 18 isn't a kid or even really a teenager any more, here in Australia you can live fully independently the second you hit 18. Point being; if this person wants to play games 8 hours a day then that's their prerogative BUT as they're an adult the parents are now under no obligation to fund that lifestyle.
> The parent has tried locking the computer in a different room, which works, but it lacks nuance.
This makes me think that it must be their computer? If so then they can just change a password or two and boom - problem solved.
> The parent has tried locking the computer in a different room, which works, but it lacks nuance.
This makes me think that it must be their computer? If so then they can just change a password or two and boom - problem solved.
Get them into programming. I spent hours a day on the computer playing games when I was 18, then I got into programming. Making games is more fun than playing them, I only worry I forget what fun means to my audience.
Instead of criticizing what your kid is doing on the computer, spend time engaging with them and participate in their hobbies with them. At 18, the kid will leave the house soon, and if you have things to talk about/do together over the internet, you might have a better relationship with your child.
Instead of criticizing what your kid is doing on the computer, spend time engaging with them and participate in their hobbies with them. At 18, the kid will leave the house soon, and if you have things to talk about/do together over the internet, you might have a better relationship with your child.
Spending 9+ hours a day engaged in escapism is a form of self-medication. You must address the problem(s) causing them to feel the need to self-medicate.
an 18-year old is not a child.
You haven't met a lot of 18 year old from the last couple generations.
Regardless of reasons, there appears to be a huge deficit of "growing up" in a large fraction of modern 18 year olds.
Looking back, I was pretty much not where I should have been at age 18 either.
Regardless of reasons, there appears to be a huge deficit of "growing up" in a large fraction of modern 18 year olds.
Looking back, I was pretty much not where I should have been at age 18 either.
> Looking back, I was pretty much not where I should have been at age 18 either.
I offer no conclusion and intend no oblique subtext, but is it not equally valid to suggest that, historically, we have expected too much of eighteen year olds? Particularly since we now know human brains don't usually "set" until the mid to late twenties.
I offer no conclusion and intend no oblique subtext, but is it not equally valid to suggest that, historically, we have expected too much of eighteen year olds? Particularly since we now know human brains don't usually "set" until the mid to late twenties.
Both sets of my grandparents were adults by 16. One set were starving Dust Bowl refugees who their parents could afford to feed (think modern day Somalia). The other had terrible foster and actual parents they had to escape.
When times are easy and in the absence of challenges, people people rarely mature as quickly or develop grit.
When times are easy and in the absence of challenges, people people rarely mature as quickly or develop grit.
so you are going to micromanage your kids?
Depends. I know many in their 40s who are definitely more of a child than some are forced to be adults at 15.
The ones in the US now are often children until 26 or so. YMMV.
I speak from extensive experience interacting with college and non college graduates across the generational ranges (21 to 60+) in professional and personal settings. Also, including people from Western and Eastern Europe, India, and China.
I speak from extensive experience interacting with college and non college graduates across the generational ranges (21 to 60+) in professional and personal settings. Also, including people from Western and Eastern Europe, India, and China.
If it's possible for your relative - let him/her ask if there's anything useful he/she would like to in front of his/her computer - let it be programming, translations, graphics - heck, even becoming a podcaster/youtuber and try to help him/her with that - it might turn into something useful for his/her career in the future.
There's a lot of differing opinions here, but there's something that's important to note:
Playing video games feels like progress. It gives you all the satisfaction of a job well done, without actually providing any benefit whatsoever. Finishing a tv or anime series can have this affect as well.
It can be difficult to break free of that and direct energies towards actual productivity.
Playing video games feels like progress. It gives you all the satisfaction of a job well done, without actually providing any benefit whatsoever. Finishing a tv or anime series can have this affect as well.
It can be difficult to break free of that and direct energies towards actual productivity.
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I'm so nervous about the horrible spirals possible on the modern internet that I think I will be grateful if my kids at 18 are wasting their days having relatively harmless and somewhat social fun.
Hopefully they will be doing something more productive, but if it's just this, I'll be OK with that. 28, maybe less so. This seems to be the way of the world now.
Hopefully they will be doing something more productive, but if it's just this, I'll be OK with that. 28, maybe less so. This seems to be the way of the world now.
I have been known to turn off the internet using a variety of methods, ranging from using the NetGear parental controls that can be used to block content of various categories, to physically disconnecting it.
If they figure out how to get around it, at least they're learning something.
If they figure out how to get around it, at least they're learning something.
I would say it would be better if the 18-year-old could redirect energy to some meaningful stuff, e.g., learn to program. I remember I came to college and spend even more time a day to struggle Python. It then open me up to a lot of other opportunities later.
Usually kids reflect behavior of their parents. If we, as parents spent enormous time in front if screen (I guess that it's common among HN users), than we cannot expect different behavior from our children. It's about lifestyle.
I was glued to my PC in the nineties, while my folks read, played crossword, and talked to family on the phone. I guess we all get consumed by something which interests us.
I'm lucky to have had a very balanced life. I had the geeky friends at school, and a whole mixture of friends via church. My dad was very sporty, so that rubbed off a bit on me: I participated in everything school had to offer (rugby, cricket, athletics); never any good, mind you, but there was always a C or D team that would me. My folks love caravan holidays, so we were away with the caravan club every second weekend, and the cherry on top were those 6+ weeks summer holidays by the riverside. We made plenty of friends this way, and had a variety of activities to occupy us (fishing, swimming, games, and the lone Double Dragon arcade machine in the canteen). But, when back home, I was very happy to switch on the old 486DX4 and tinker with Slackware and code Pascal or dual boot into DOS/Windows3.11 and tweak bat files so I can play Lemmings or something.
Perhaps it boils down to offering our own kids as many opportunities as possible. Not forcing it on them, but participating with them and showing a genuine interest. E.g. we've turned our 5 and 9 year olds into avid hikers by not forcing the walking on them, but by calling it "treasure hunting" and incorporating geo-caching into the walking. (Their friends, when coming along, ask me to carry them after a while, haha). When we go camping, we pick car-free campsites where they can roam free, and we can trust them because we've done all the tricky stuff with them a few times before. Those are their favourite holidays.
That said, being glued to a computer today is a whole different ball game, what with the various algorithms that keep folks engaged on social media and possibly in games. I don't know if I have an answer for this. (For our little ones, their tablets are managed by Google Family link, so no Youtube, and websites on Chrome and Play Store installs are approve-only.)
I'm lucky to have had a very balanced life. I had the geeky friends at school, and a whole mixture of friends via church. My dad was very sporty, so that rubbed off a bit on me: I participated in everything school had to offer (rugby, cricket, athletics); never any good, mind you, but there was always a C or D team that would me. My folks love caravan holidays, so we were away with the caravan club every second weekend, and the cherry on top were those 6+ weeks summer holidays by the riverside. We made plenty of friends this way, and had a variety of activities to occupy us (fishing, swimming, games, and the lone Double Dragon arcade machine in the canteen). But, when back home, I was very happy to switch on the old 486DX4 and tinker with Slackware and code Pascal or dual boot into DOS/Windows3.11 and tweak bat files so I can play Lemmings or something.
Perhaps it boils down to offering our own kids as many opportunities as possible. Not forcing it on them, but participating with them and showing a genuine interest. E.g. we've turned our 5 and 9 year olds into avid hikers by not forcing the walking on them, but by calling it "treasure hunting" and incorporating geo-caching into the walking. (Their friends, when coming along, ask me to carry them after a while, haha). When we go camping, we pick car-free campsites where they can roam free, and we can trust them because we've done all the tricky stuff with them a few times before. Those are their favourite holidays.
That said, being glued to a computer today is a whole different ball game, what with the various algorithms that keep folks engaged on social media and possibly in games. I don't know if I have an answer for this. (For our little ones, their tablets are managed by Google Family link, so no Youtube, and websites on Chrome and Play Store installs are approve-only.)
Find time to DO something with the kid. Sports league, rock climbing, that kind of thing. Try to find things where they will find a peer group of other 18-20 somethings that they can bond with, and you can then go about your business.
Isn't an 18 year old an adult? They don't seem to be treated like one
I was like that kid. Turns out my parents were extremely emotionally abusive and it was my escape.
Consider taking a look at the people in the kid's life, rather than his perceived misbehaviors.
Consider taking a look at the people in the kid's life, rather than his perceived misbehaviors.
As another point of view I will add my own experience.
I spent a lot of time on my computer at 18. I didn't have a job. I turned out fine :)
I spent a lot of time on my computer at 18. I didn't have a job. I turned out fine :)
How about just spend some time with the person...
At 18, no he’s an adult he can buy a data plan and use the internet all day.
You’re looking at the symptom and not the root problem by the way.
You’re looking at the symptom and not the root problem by the way.
We had a family friend with this problem. Buying him a dog worked wonders, if such an option is available.
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This was me, albeit not when I was 18 due to existential problems and shit living situation, so I was forced to get a job around 17/18, but that's a bit off topic for this. But it was me for most of my teens, and to an extent still is today.
Even after I found a job, I spent most of my free time online, and made lifelong friends; most of whom I've met many times in person. I even moved to London to be able to hang out more often in person.
Often, extreme escapism can be ways of coping. Either coping because the parents haven't taught their children any coping mechanisms, or because they have childhood trauma that they're not processing (either due to a still traumatic environment, often caused by parents).
Obviously, laziness exists, but contrary to popular opinion, I don't believe anyone who plays a lot of videogames is lazy because games often exert a lot of mental effort.
There's also the possibility of addiction, but addiction is often a maladaptive coping mechanisms that has roots in traumatic childhood and is often a symptom of Complex PTSD. Sorry for kinda making a circular argument.
So, anyway, my advice would be to—instead of forcing the child into stopping using the computer—get them into therapy. Therapists who deal with children of abusive narcissistic parents is my recommendation; narcissism in the family is incredibly insidious, especially to children. It's often impossible to spot from the outside due to the narcissists false self they present to the rest of the world.[0]
On a more positive note, spending so much time watching anime, "playing games", and hanging out in various creative online communities sparked my interest for software development. My care giver called it "playing video games" too, but I was actually writing my own visual roleplay software used by a few hundred people (not much I know, but it was a niche community and it felt as an achievement in my teens). Obviously, I played games too, but the point I'm trying to make is that maybe the parents can't even tell the difference, lol.
This is all from personal experience and it's very anecdotal, though.
[0]: https://narcissistfamilyfiles.com/2016/04/22/raised-by-narci...
https://narcissistfamilyfiles.com/2020/04/30/5-things-childr...
The narcissistic family files websites is a morbid treasure trove on anyone who wants to educate themselves. If people are morbidly curious or this resonates with them, I also recommend checking out Dr Ramani's YouTube channel, as well as potentially checking out her healing programme. Additionally, look for a support group of you think you might have been exposed to narcissism in childhood. I'm also available to talk if you have no one else to talk to that "gets it" but I'm not an expert and I'm still struggling/recovering myself, so I can't give and sound advice, but I can at least offer compassion. It gets better; you just gotta believe in the process.
Even after I found a job, I spent most of my free time online, and made lifelong friends; most of whom I've met many times in person. I even moved to London to be able to hang out more often in person.
Often, extreme escapism can be ways of coping. Either coping because the parents haven't taught their children any coping mechanisms, or because they have childhood trauma that they're not processing (either due to a still traumatic environment, often caused by parents).
Obviously, laziness exists, but contrary to popular opinion, I don't believe anyone who plays a lot of videogames is lazy because games often exert a lot of mental effort.
There's also the possibility of addiction, but addiction is often a maladaptive coping mechanisms that has roots in traumatic childhood and is often a symptom of Complex PTSD. Sorry for kinda making a circular argument.
So, anyway, my advice would be to—instead of forcing the child into stopping using the computer—get them into therapy. Therapists who deal with children of abusive narcissistic parents is my recommendation; narcissism in the family is incredibly insidious, especially to children. It's often impossible to spot from the outside due to the narcissists false self they present to the rest of the world.[0]
On a more positive note, spending so much time watching anime, "playing games", and hanging out in various creative online communities sparked my interest for software development. My care giver called it "playing video games" too, but I was actually writing my own visual roleplay software used by a few hundred people (not much I know, but it was a niche community and it felt as an achievement in my teens). Obviously, I played games too, but the point I'm trying to make is that maybe the parents can't even tell the difference, lol.
This is all from personal experience and it's very anecdotal, though.
[0]: https://narcissistfamilyfiles.com/2016/04/22/raised-by-narci...
https://narcissistfamilyfiles.com/2020/04/30/5-things-childr...
The narcissistic family files websites is a morbid treasure trove on anyone who wants to educate themselves. If people are morbidly curious or this resonates with them, I also recommend checking out Dr Ramani's YouTube channel, as well as potentially checking out her healing programme. Additionally, look for a support group of you think you might have been exposed to narcissism in childhood. I'm also available to talk if you have no one else to talk to that "gets it" but I'm not an expert and I'm still struggling/recovering myself, so I can't give and sound advice, but I can at least offer compassion. It gets better; you just gotta believe in the process.
18yo is an adult who can tell you to pound sand.
Start with wifi. It's 30 bucks a week to use. Tell them it starts in two weeks. That will give them enough time to make 20 bucks for wifi use.
Start shutting off wifi during the 9-5 hours.
Start shutting off wifi during the 9-5 hours.
You want to charge your kids more to share your Internet connection than it would cost for them to buy dedicated ones of their own, and then you'd add insult to injury by not giving them full use of what they're paying for?
People do this.
After my second (or third, don’t remember) trip to the fine country of Iraq I was staying at my parents (wasn’t doing all that good in the mental state) and my step-dad decided to charge me rent. Fair enough I thought, I’m living there so this is perfectly reasonable, happy to help out. Turns out this was just a scheme to get me to move out when I was thinking it was permission to stay.
After my second (or third, don’t remember) trip to the fine country of Iraq I was staying at my parents (wasn’t doing all that good in the mental state) and my step-dad decided to charge me rent. Fair enough I thought, I’m living there so this is perfectly reasonable, happy to help out. Turns out this was just a scheme to get me to move out when I was thinking it was permission to stay.
For my kids, it's not about the money. It's about responsibility and opening your eyes to the reality that eveywhere you go you will be paying for things, and they only come to you when you work for them. And the day you came to me and told me you were going to move out. I'd take you to the bank and give you all the money back. I would be saving it for you for you to use for a down payment on a car to get to work, or get that cool place you want to live in.
They were two different suggestions.
Okay, focus on just the first one then. How can you justify charging your kids more to share your Internet connection than your ISP charges for the whole thing? It seems immoral for parents to make a profit off of their kids, especially if the kids aren't financially able to move out yet.
I meant 20 bucks and the only HSISP in my area is Xfinity and it's over $120 a month.
But regardless, for my kids, it's not about the money. It's about responsibility and opening their eyes to the reality that every where they go they will be paying for things, and they only come to them when they work for them. And the day the come to me and tell me they are going to move out. I'd take em to the bank and give them all the money back.
But regardless, for my kids, it's not about the money. It's about responsibility and opening their eyes to the reality that every where they go they will be paying for things, and they only come to them when they work for them. And the day the come to me and tell me they are going to move out. I'd take em to the bank and give them all the money back.
Charge rent.
Is this a new thing for the kid? If yes, then I'd try to figure out what caused it, eg. did they move to a new city, did s/he get rejected from college, bullied at school, rejected by a boy/girl, maybe s/he is gay, etc.
Apart from talking to them as suggested by others in the thread, I'd try to channel it. Thing is, spending 8+ hours a day in front of the computer isn't really a big deal these days. Most people with high-paying jobs spend 8+ hours a day in front of the computer, plus another 2-4 hours on their mobile. (Myself included.) The trick is to make it productive. Are you sure they are just playing games and watching stuff? Are they not messing around with Linux or gcc or Visual Studio or Unreal Engine or Photoshop or whatever?
So, what I'd do is, take them to the bookstore, go to the computer section, and buy them a bunch of books. C, C++, Javascript, cool stuff like Unreal Engine, plus whatever they want. If they don't want to go, just go and buy it, and put it in their room. Show them GPT-3 on OpenAI. Give them an AWS account. I don't know if it'd work, but it's worth $1000 to try it. If the kid can channel it into productive computing (programming, design, whatever), then this "addiction" is actually a huge gift, as they will be set for life.
I would NOT try to lock the computer away, esp. at this age. That's like burning bridges between the parent and the kid. That's essentially treating the kid as an idiot who needs to be forced to do "the right thing". Thing is, the parent's intuition about this time being wasted may be wrong, but in any case that is not a good approach. It will just lead to the kid hating the parents, probably for life.
Somewhat unrelated, 18 is a great age to get a job. I think most people/kids, once they figure out that a job comes with a paycheck, actually love to have a job. So, if they're not going away for college, try to help them get a part-time job, maybe like 4-hours a day as a start. I suspect after the first paycheck the kid will love it, and will want to make more money so s/he can move out and get rid of the parents..
-
Personal context:
tldr = spending a lot of time on the computer from an early age has resulted in far more positives than negatives for me, and has not impacted my life in a major negative way overall. If I could go back in time, in general I would not stop myself from spending so much time on the computer.
I'm 41 now, but I spent a lot of time on the computer from age 7, probably 2-4-8 hours a day, depending on age. For me, it's always been like that, we had a Commodore-64 at home when I was 7 years old. I would play Pitstop [1] on it and type things into the BASIC interpreter.
When I was a teenager, my parents were concerned about my computer time ("he should be out playing sports"), and they locked the computer (and TV) in various ways. Back then computer cases had a lock on them (with a key), so they did that, but that was easy to circumvent. So then they put a password on the BIOS, that sucked. Fortunately they used weak passwords so some of the times I was able to guess it. Locking away the computer when I was a teen was a (one of the many) spectacularly bad moves on my parents part, and was one of the reaons I barely talk to them.
Thing is, I also played a lot of games, but I also spent all that time learning and understanding computers (I must have re-installed Windows and recompiled the Linux kernel 100s of times), pirating everything I could pirate (including books, which led to my life-long habit of reading and self-improvement) and trying it out, teaching myself programming (BASIC, then Pascal, then C/C++, etc) and that turned me into the person that I am today.
All that time on the computer did not keep me from later becoming very active in sports (I've been doing triathlons since 2008, from sprint to Ironman distance, 38 races so far), I go to the gym 5-6 times a week, I average around 90 mins a day working out in some form. To be fair, in part to counter my time on the computer, my parents forced me to do various sports during my teenage years, althoughI resisted and sabotaged these efforts. But, again to be fair, the reason I can do the swim portion of the triahtlons easily is because they forced me to play water polo for a couple of years.
I also became a car guy 5-6 years ago, so now I drive a Porsche 911, which I can afford because I have a high-paying job, which I have because there's very few things I can't do/accomplish/figure out on a computer, which is because I've been on it for ~35 years. For example, I manage a Data Science team/org now, but I still regularly help out when some sort of Java exception comes from deep in the stack or one of our ML endpoints goes down because there's some Linux issue on one of our EC2s; for me it's trivial because it's probably something I encountered when I was 17 and was messing around, for many others it's a hard-blocker.
I still spend much/most of my time in front of a screen, because it's my job and even outside my job it's the default thing to do if I'm not (i) spending time with my family/kids (ii) working out/doing sports or (iii) driving around.
Having said all this, I do think I missed out on a couple of things. I had my first girlfriend when I was 20, which is about 4-5 years too late, that sucks. I've never been very good with girls, which led me to have limited selection, which possibly led me to get married to the wrong person the first time around.
The second thing, a bit related to this topic is, my parents, being from E-Europe, thought that kids should not get a job and should focus on their studies. So although I had silly / not-very-serious jobs since 16, the first real job I got was at 23 when I graduated. That is another miss, I've always felt I'm ~5 years behind in terms of life-maturity.
[1] https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Pitstop
Apart from talking to them as suggested by others in the thread, I'd try to channel it. Thing is, spending 8+ hours a day in front of the computer isn't really a big deal these days. Most people with high-paying jobs spend 8+ hours a day in front of the computer, plus another 2-4 hours on their mobile. (Myself included.) The trick is to make it productive. Are you sure they are just playing games and watching stuff? Are they not messing around with Linux or gcc or Visual Studio or Unreal Engine or Photoshop or whatever?
So, what I'd do is, take them to the bookstore, go to the computer section, and buy them a bunch of books. C, C++, Javascript, cool stuff like Unreal Engine, plus whatever they want. If they don't want to go, just go and buy it, and put it in their room. Show them GPT-3 on OpenAI. Give them an AWS account. I don't know if it'd work, but it's worth $1000 to try it. If the kid can channel it into productive computing (programming, design, whatever), then this "addiction" is actually a huge gift, as they will be set for life.
I would NOT try to lock the computer away, esp. at this age. That's like burning bridges between the parent and the kid. That's essentially treating the kid as an idiot who needs to be forced to do "the right thing". Thing is, the parent's intuition about this time being wasted may be wrong, but in any case that is not a good approach. It will just lead to the kid hating the parents, probably for life.
Somewhat unrelated, 18 is a great age to get a job. I think most people/kids, once they figure out that a job comes with a paycheck, actually love to have a job. So, if they're not going away for college, try to help them get a part-time job, maybe like 4-hours a day as a start. I suspect after the first paycheck the kid will love it, and will want to make more money so s/he can move out and get rid of the parents..
-
Personal context:
tldr = spending a lot of time on the computer from an early age has resulted in far more positives than negatives for me, and has not impacted my life in a major negative way overall. If I could go back in time, in general I would not stop myself from spending so much time on the computer.
I'm 41 now, but I spent a lot of time on the computer from age 7, probably 2-4-8 hours a day, depending on age. For me, it's always been like that, we had a Commodore-64 at home when I was 7 years old. I would play Pitstop [1] on it and type things into the BASIC interpreter.
When I was a teenager, my parents were concerned about my computer time ("he should be out playing sports"), and they locked the computer (and TV) in various ways. Back then computer cases had a lock on them (with a key), so they did that, but that was easy to circumvent. So then they put a password on the BIOS, that sucked. Fortunately they used weak passwords so some of the times I was able to guess it. Locking away the computer when I was a teen was a (one of the many) spectacularly bad moves on my parents part, and was one of the reaons I barely talk to them.
Thing is, I also played a lot of games, but I also spent all that time learning and understanding computers (I must have re-installed Windows and recompiled the Linux kernel 100s of times), pirating everything I could pirate (including books, which led to my life-long habit of reading and self-improvement) and trying it out, teaching myself programming (BASIC, then Pascal, then C/C++, etc) and that turned me into the person that I am today.
All that time on the computer did not keep me from later becoming very active in sports (I've been doing triathlons since 2008, from sprint to Ironman distance, 38 races so far), I go to the gym 5-6 times a week, I average around 90 mins a day working out in some form. To be fair, in part to counter my time on the computer, my parents forced me to do various sports during my teenage years, althoughI resisted and sabotaged these efforts. But, again to be fair, the reason I can do the swim portion of the triahtlons easily is because they forced me to play water polo for a couple of years.
I also became a car guy 5-6 years ago, so now I drive a Porsche 911, which I can afford because I have a high-paying job, which I have because there's very few things I can't do/accomplish/figure out on a computer, which is because I've been on it for ~35 years. For example, I manage a Data Science team/org now, but I still regularly help out when some sort of Java exception comes from deep in the stack or one of our ML endpoints goes down because there's some Linux issue on one of our EC2s; for me it's trivial because it's probably something I encountered when I was 17 and was messing around, for many others it's a hard-blocker.
I still spend much/most of my time in front of a screen, because it's my job and even outside my job it's the default thing to do if I'm not (i) spending time with my family/kids (ii) working out/doing sports or (iii) driving around.
Having said all this, I do think I missed out on a couple of things. I had my first girlfriend when I was 20, which is about 4-5 years too late, that sucks. I've never been very good with girls, which led me to have limited selection, which possibly led me to get married to the wrong person the first time around.
The second thing, a bit related to this topic is, my parents, being from E-Europe, thought that kids should not get a job and should focus on their studies. So although I had silly / not-very-serious jobs since 16, the first real job I got was at 23 when I graduated. That is another miss, I've always felt I'm ~5 years behind in terms of life-maturity.
[1] https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Pitstop
I too was like this kid not so long ago. Here are some perspectives.
1. THE CAUSE - How is he doing academically? I was doing really poorly because of lack of support, and to suppress that frustration I would try to stifle it with games, anime etc. So do consider that possibility that its a response to an emotional problem and not a deliberate decision. They may not want to indulge in media consumption all day, and it may merely be a way to reduce their friction against the world and themselves.
2. THEIR BACKGROUND - Some of the responses here suggest kicking out the kid as they're a legal adult. If my parents were to suddently ask me to step up massively at 18 and did so using force, I would resent it tremendously. Because since I hit my teens, they had long abdicated the role of supporting any personality development activity for me. So I would directly attribute my inabilities to them. Some of you would be aghast reading this, like how could an "18 year old adult" claim this. That's because I'm not American, there was a genuine lack of such opportunities during high school because all was forfeit at the altar of college exams. I actually still resent it a little that they didn't enroll me in something like the (Boy) Scouts, or a karate class, or a swimming class etc. i.e. avenues where I could get out and grow a little as a person. In hindsight, I've recognized that ny parents are people too with shortcomings, and I shouldn't blame them for everything because I can. That would be foolish and myopic. However, my point is that the parents were responsible kid's upbringing and environment growing up, so the resulting kid they have at 18 is their creation. (Americans wouldn't agree, I'm sure some Asians who grew up middle/upper-middle class would.) So its not fair to pin it all on the child. Punitive measures may be a bad idea. I much prefer what /u/WastingMyTime89 has suggested below, to sit down with your child regularly so that they open up about their issues and problems. In any case, opportunities for the kid to get out would be a great idea, both by themselves or with their parents.
3. GLOBAL TRENDS - I assume the kid is a male. I've observed the same phenomenon happening with a male cousin personally, wherein a boy doesn't grow into a being a young adult very well, and instead retreats into his room and anime/games/porn. I think Warren Ferrel's work might be a good start. It might be good to take a birds eye viee of the whole thing and be informed by other individuals ans how they self-improved.
P.S. of course, the kid in question may be quite different from what I've described. But if they are the trying-but-struggling type, you could give him a book called 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson. It seems to have been fantastically effective for and well-received by many many young men. My 2 cents.
1. THE CAUSE - How is he doing academically? I was doing really poorly because of lack of support, and to suppress that frustration I would try to stifle it with games, anime etc. So do consider that possibility that its a response to an emotional problem and not a deliberate decision. They may not want to indulge in media consumption all day, and it may merely be a way to reduce their friction against the world and themselves.
2. THEIR BACKGROUND - Some of the responses here suggest kicking out the kid as they're a legal adult. If my parents were to suddently ask me to step up massively at 18 and did so using force, I would resent it tremendously. Because since I hit my teens, they had long abdicated the role of supporting any personality development activity for me. So I would directly attribute my inabilities to them. Some of you would be aghast reading this, like how could an "18 year old adult" claim this. That's because I'm not American, there was a genuine lack of such opportunities during high school because all was forfeit at the altar of college exams. I actually still resent it a little that they didn't enroll me in something like the (Boy) Scouts, or a karate class, or a swimming class etc. i.e. avenues where I could get out and grow a little as a person. In hindsight, I've recognized that ny parents are people too with shortcomings, and I shouldn't blame them for everything because I can. That would be foolish and myopic. However, my point is that the parents were responsible kid's upbringing and environment growing up, so the resulting kid they have at 18 is their creation. (Americans wouldn't agree, I'm sure some Asians who grew up middle/upper-middle class would.) So its not fair to pin it all on the child. Punitive measures may be a bad idea. I much prefer what /u/WastingMyTime89 has suggested below, to sit down with your child regularly so that they open up about their issues and problems. In any case, opportunities for the kid to get out would be a great idea, both by themselves or with their parents.
3. GLOBAL TRENDS - I assume the kid is a male. I've observed the same phenomenon happening with a male cousin personally, wherein a boy doesn't grow into a being a young adult very well, and instead retreats into his room and anime/games/porn. I think Warren Ferrel's work might be a good start. It might be good to take a birds eye viee of the whole thing and be informed by other individuals ans how they self-improved.
P.S. of course, the kid in question may be quite different from what I've described. But if they are the trying-but-struggling type, you could give him a book called 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson. It seems to have been fantastically effective for and well-received by many many young men. My 2 cents.
Enroll him in the armed forces...
carrot: sex, get him a one time babysitter
stick: sell the computer, require rent
stick: sell the computer, require rent
TLDR:
- It's unrealistic in today's world to say that Under No Circumstances Should Anyone Spend 9 Hours A Day On A Computer.
- His/her lifestyle may be unhealthy, but it's not necessarily the computer usage.
- External social realities may make it difficult or impossible to hang out with friends in real life.
- "Failure to launch" is a real problem. Providing assistance to overcome obstacles is better than judgment and trying to force behavior change.
- An actual "Doesn't want to launch" situation is unlikely. If it appears to be the case, it may be because he/she doesn't have a good enough relationship to feel comfortable discussing his/her actual plans.
- It's possible this is a situation of "I want this, but I don't want to want this." In this case, technical measures may help, but they don't have to be particularly sneaky or hacker-proof.
This sounds like it's written by a boomer or earlier generation. I'm rather surprised it's posted on HN, by someone who is apparently young enough to have been a child in the Internet age.
In case you didn't get the memo, the world has changed. A substantial portion of the population, and a much more substantial proportion of this site's audience, spends the majority of their day on computers and the Internet.
Spending time with your friends often happens on the computer today. In case you haven't noticed, for decades, kids have been losing the ability to meet up in person. Causes include "helicopter parenting," media-fueled concerns about kidnapping, fears of overzealous CPS cracking down on people for letting kids go places on their own, plus the Internet.
The pandemic accelerated this trend a lot, especially for young people, as many schools were online-only for multiple semesters.
The kid in question may not be a social butterfly. It's partly his/her personality and interests -- the local teens may not care about the same things he/she cares about -- and also, some people just end up as social outcasts through no fault of their own -- for example mild undiagnosed Asperger's / ADHD / autism may not be obvious to a person or their family, but it may make them behaviorally different enough to just subliminally "creep people out" and turn others away. The Internet can be a lifeline -- it may be much easier for him/her to find a place among its thousands, perhaps millions, of fractally nested communities based around every conceivable group and interest.
Taking that lifeline away seems like a bad idea.
An 18-year-old is legally an adult. Thinking of him/her as a child, or treating them like one, isn't going to accomplish anything worthwhile.
Computer time isn't the problem. It's his/her free time and spending it how he/she pleases. If he/she was hanging out with friends, and they were playing baseball for 9 hours a day, and you wish they were playing basketball, guess what? You don't get a vote, and you're kinda a jerk if you say "You and your friends have to play basketball. Or else I'll find a way to stop your game."
What may be a problem is failure to launch.
Sit down and ask him/her, "Where do you see yourself in 5 years, or 10 years? What do you need to do to get there? What obstacles are in your way? How can I help?"
If he/she is making progress toward a launch -- has a job and is saving up money, or is currently enrolled or in the process of applying to university -- then how he/she spends free time doesn't matter. Trying to impose limitations will just build resentment, damage the relationship, and possibly psychologically damage the son/daughter (see comment [1] for an example of how bad things can get if you go down this road).
If they want to launch, but they're not making progress, ask them what obstacles they face and then really listen to the answers. In comparison to earlier generations, college is incredibly expensive relative to income. The process for scholarships and financial aid is complicated and confusing. Entry-level job postings may require experience. The application process for all three can be quite intimidating to an inexperienced adult. Not having a car is a crippling logistical challenge in many parts of the US. If they're not used to working, it can be a major life change causing severe anxiety.
Offer help, but don't dismiss their concerns as "making excuses".
If he/she doesn't want to launch, and is planning to live in your basement until keeling over at age 99, that's a different problem -- but I think this is unlikely. (It may take some patience and persistence to break through the shell and get him/her to talk about his/her plans -- I sense this relationship may be strained already.)
If he/she doesn't want to spend so much time on the computer but can't control himself/herself, that's actually a problem where technical measures can help. The key is that he/she agrees (freely, without threats or incentives) to be blocked or limited -- it's a voluntary, self-applied tool to help with self-restraint. The technical measures don't need to be sneaky or utterly hacker-proof; they just need to put some extra steps into the process of screwing around when you shouldn't be. It's fine if he/she knows exactly what mechanism is in place and how to disable it, the point is to add extra steps to give his/her rational brain time to interrupt the monkey brain's "Video games fun!" with "Should I really be doing this right now?"
One simple trick is pomodoro, just have a timer that goes off every so often and reminds you to check the time, and compare what you are doing to what you should be doing.
This kind of self-control and self-discipline is hard to learn -- but this is actually an instance where it's better to be living with parents and unemployed. That way, the parents can help train the person's resistance to the siren call of the Internet, and the consequences of a lapse aren't as dire as losing a job or flunking out of college.
Anyway, the point is that approaching the issue in an adversarial way may motivate him/her to move out, but it's not worth the price -- it'll damage the relationship, and possibly psychologically damage him/her as well.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32091676
- It's unrealistic in today's world to say that Under No Circumstances Should Anyone Spend 9 Hours A Day On A Computer.
- His/her lifestyle may be unhealthy, but it's not necessarily the computer usage.
- External social realities may make it difficult or impossible to hang out with friends in real life.
- "Failure to launch" is a real problem. Providing assistance to overcome obstacles is better than judgment and trying to force behavior change.
- An actual "Doesn't want to launch" situation is unlikely. If it appears to be the case, it may be because he/she doesn't have a good enough relationship to feel comfortable discussing his/her actual plans.
- It's possible this is a situation of "I want this, but I don't want to want this." In this case, technical measures may help, but they don't have to be particularly sneaky or hacker-proof.
This sounds like it's written by a boomer or earlier generation. I'm rather surprised it's posted on HN, by someone who is apparently young enough to have been a child in the Internet age.
In case you didn't get the memo, the world has changed. A substantial portion of the population, and a much more substantial proportion of this site's audience, spends the majority of their day on computers and the Internet.
Spending time with your friends often happens on the computer today. In case you haven't noticed, for decades, kids have been losing the ability to meet up in person. Causes include "helicopter parenting," media-fueled concerns about kidnapping, fears of overzealous CPS cracking down on people for letting kids go places on their own, plus the Internet.
The pandemic accelerated this trend a lot, especially for young people, as many schools were online-only for multiple semesters.
The kid in question may not be a social butterfly. It's partly his/her personality and interests -- the local teens may not care about the same things he/she cares about -- and also, some people just end up as social outcasts through no fault of their own -- for example mild undiagnosed Asperger's / ADHD / autism may not be obvious to a person or their family, but it may make them behaviorally different enough to just subliminally "creep people out" and turn others away. The Internet can be a lifeline -- it may be much easier for him/her to find a place among its thousands, perhaps millions, of fractally nested communities based around every conceivable group and interest.
Taking that lifeline away seems like a bad idea.
An 18-year-old is legally an adult. Thinking of him/her as a child, or treating them like one, isn't going to accomplish anything worthwhile.
Computer time isn't the problem. It's his/her free time and spending it how he/she pleases. If he/she was hanging out with friends, and they were playing baseball for 9 hours a day, and you wish they were playing basketball, guess what? You don't get a vote, and you're kinda a jerk if you say "You and your friends have to play basketball. Or else I'll find a way to stop your game."
What may be a problem is failure to launch.
Sit down and ask him/her, "Where do you see yourself in 5 years, or 10 years? What do you need to do to get there? What obstacles are in your way? How can I help?"
If he/she is making progress toward a launch -- has a job and is saving up money, or is currently enrolled or in the process of applying to university -- then how he/she spends free time doesn't matter. Trying to impose limitations will just build resentment, damage the relationship, and possibly psychologically damage the son/daughter (see comment [1] for an example of how bad things can get if you go down this road).
If they want to launch, but they're not making progress, ask them what obstacles they face and then really listen to the answers. In comparison to earlier generations, college is incredibly expensive relative to income. The process for scholarships and financial aid is complicated and confusing. Entry-level job postings may require experience. The application process for all three can be quite intimidating to an inexperienced adult. Not having a car is a crippling logistical challenge in many parts of the US. If they're not used to working, it can be a major life change causing severe anxiety.
Offer help, but don't dismiss their concerns as "making excuses".
If he/she doesn't want to launch, and is planning to live in your basement until keeling over at age 99, that's a different problem -- but I think this is unlikely. (It may take some patience and persistence to break through the shell and get him/her to talk about his/her plans -- I sense this relationship may be strained already.)
If he/she doesn't want to spend so much time on the computer but can't control himself/herself, that's actually a problem where technical measures can help. The key is that he/she agrees (freely, without threats or incentives) to be blocked or limited -- it's a voluntary, self-applied tool to help with self-restraint. The technical measures don't need to be sneaky or utterly hacker-proof; they just need to put some extra steps into the process of screwing around when you shouldn't be. It's fine if he/she knows exactly what mechanism is in place and how to disable it, the point is to add extra steps to give his/her rational brain time to interrupt the monkey brain's "Video games fun!" with "Should I really be doing this right now?"
One simple trick is pomodoro, just have a timer that goes off every so often and reminds you to check the time, and compare what you are doing to what you should be doing.
This kind of self-control and self-discipline is hard to learn -- but this is actually an instance where it's better to be living with parents and unemployed. That way, the parents can help train the person's resistance to the siren call of the Internet, and the consequences of a lapse aren't as dire as losing a job or flunking out of college.
Anyway, the point is that approaching the issue in an adversarial way may motivate him/her to move out, but it's not worth the price -- it'll damage the relationship, and possibly psychologically damage him/her as well.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32091676
I'm not a parent, but I've been in this kid's position. I didn't have a computer at 18, and I certainly didn't have internet access. So if I wasn't at work or at school I'd hang out at the public library or hide behind books at home. I did this because I had learned that nobody actually gave a shit about me as long as I stayed out of their way. They didn't want me around, and weren't interested in how I felt or what I thought as long as "did my part" to raise my brothers and didn't drop out of school, get a girl pregnant, or murder my brothers or classmates. It was plain that I wasn't welcome in the society around me, and I had come to decide that society didn't deserve me.
There's a discussion on r/menslib that touches on this at <https://teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_...>.
This comment at <https://teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_...> is particularly relevant:
> So, as you say, the question is: did society create the computer kid by ignoring them, or did the computer kid disregard society because computers were more interesting?
> Both, possibly. But there's no smoke without fire. If you force a kid into solo, insular hobbies and to find their own ways to connect to things without the opportunity for those things to be other people, you really can't complain decades later that he's socially inept.
I felt forced to find ways to entertain myself because I grew up without friends, was emotionally neglected, and never figured out how to make friends as a kid because my parents figured that I was somehow "smart enough" to not need help with social skills. It wasn't computers for me; it was books, heavy metal albums, and console gaming.
You're not going to fix this "addiction" without first confronting the root causes. Chances are this kid was emotionally neglected, and they're using the computer to cope.
There's a discussion on r/menslib that touches on this at <https://teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_...>.
This comment at <https://teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_...> is particularly relevant:
> So, as you say, the question is: did society create the computer kid by ignoring them, or did the computer kid disregard society because computers were more interesting?
> Both, possibly. But there's no smoke without fire. If you force a kid into solo, insular hobbies and to find their own ways to connect to things without the opportunity for those things to be other people, you really can't complain decades later that he's socially inept.
I felt forced to find ways to entertain myself because I grew up without friends, was emotionally neglected, and never figured out how to make friends as a kid because my parents figured that I was somehow "smart enough" to not need help with social skills. It wasn't computers for me; it was books, heavy metal albums, and console gaming.
You're not going to fix this "addiction" without first confronting the root causes. Chances are this kid was emotionally neglected, and they're using the computer to cope.
we live in a SOCIETY
Well their comment was actually interesting, had you read it.
It's one of the only ones so far, mentioning the fact of discussing with the 18 yo son, trying to find the cause(s) of his behavior.
Most of the other answers are as stupid a "blablabla when I was 18 I had a fulltime job", good for you Jake, it made you into the pretentious adult applying one solution to everyone else problems and even worse giving those advice randomly to people on in the internet.
It's one of the only ones so far, mentioning the fact of discussing with the 18 yo son, trying to find the cause(s) of his behavior.
Most of the other answers are as stupid a "blablabla when I was 18 I had a fulltime job", good for you Jake, it made you into the pretentious adult applying one solution to everyone else problems and even worse giving those advice randomly to people on in the internet.
Try to get interested to what he is doing, talk to him, that way you can mention to him some cool stuff he can do with a computer like programming, even gamedev
He found an escape with computers, he found friends probably playing online, don't restrict that to him
Reading books 9h a day or staying on your computer 9h a day is the exact same
He found an escape with computers, he found friends probably playing online, don't restrict that to him
Reading books 9h a day or staying on your computer 9h a day is the exact same
No. Turn off their internet between 11 pm and 7 am.
Parents of HN, what measures or completely different approaches have worked to establish healthy computer time limits for your kids?