Ask HN: Is the United Kingdom undergoing collapse?
7 comments
I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The pound buys a pence's worth; banks are going bust; shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter; yutes are running wild in the street, and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it.
We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat. And we sit watching our TVs while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be!
We all know things are bad -- worse than bad -- they're crazy.
It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out any more. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, "Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone."
Well, I'm not going to leave you alone.
I want you to get mad!
I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot. I don't want you to write to your Congressman, because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street.
All I know is that first, you've got to get mad.
You've gotta say, "I'm a human being, goddammit! My life has value!"
So, I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell: "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!!"
We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat. And we sit watching our TVs while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be!
We all know things are bad -- worse than bad -- they're crazy.
It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out any more. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, "Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone."
Well, I'm not going to leave you alone.
I want you to get mad!
I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot. I don't want you to write to your Congressman, because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street.
All I know is that first, you've got to get mad.
You've gotta say, "I'm a human being, goddammit! My life has value!"
So, I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell: "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!!"
I guess you want something more than online news and commentary to assess the economic state of [country], so as an attempt at a useful answer i'll provide this.
go here https://tradingeconomics.com/calendar and click "dates".
then click last week or last month, scroll through the various economic indicators and see the ones with the british flag, and go from there. if you're new to econometrics you will probably need to dig in a little but it is worthwhile if you are interested in the state of the economy.
if you are seriously wondering if the UK is collapsing, you are probably spending too much time in comment sections and crowd-curated news sites and should do less of that
go here https://tradingeconomics.com/calendar and click "dates".
then click last week or last month, scroll through the various economic indicators and see the ones with the british flag, and go from there. if you're new to econometrics you will probably need to dig in a little but it is worthwhile if you are interested in the state of the economy.
if you are seriously wondering if the UK is collapsing, you are probably spending too much time in comment sections and crowd-curated news sites and should do less of that
It's not undergoing collapse but it is going to be no longer comparable to the likes of France and to a lesser degree, Germany from now on.
The UK is now comparable to Italy and Spain - regional historic class-based wealth group at the top screws over massive part of the economy to maintain/grow it's much smaller percentage.
After a lost decade already, the Conservative Party are on the verge of annihilation - I know people who work for investment banks and earn serious money and they will not vote Conservative until there's a completely new generation of middle-class Conservative MP's in charge. They see the bucaneer spirit of the old Conservatives as dead in the water replaced by corruption that wouldn't be out of place in places they used to sneer at (Argentina and Brazil being the most commonly cited examples).
£14 a pint will be the straw that breaks the camel's back - lots of old boozers won't be able stay open as people drink at home.
The UK is now comparable to Italy and Spain - regional historic class-based wealth group at the top screws over massive part of the economy to maintain/grow it's much smaller percentage.
After a lost decade already, the Conservative Party are on the verge of annihilation - I know people who work for investment banks and earn serious money and they will not vote Conservative until there's a completely new generation of middle-class Conservative MP's in charge. They see the bucaneer spirit of the old Conservatives as dead in the water replaced by corruption that wouldn't be out of place in places they used to sneer at (Argentina and Brazil being the most commonly cited examples).
£14 a pint will be the straw that breaks the camel's back - lots of old boozers won't be able stay open as people drink at home.
imho it's just an extreme version of "right-wing government fucks it up for the common folk while enriching the upper class, left-wing government has to come in and fix it all again, badly, because they'll be opposed at every step of the way by the right wing in opposition"
Brexit was a horrific mistake, one that will take decades to fix (up to and including the UK re-joining). In the meantime, the folks at the top stop just short of telling the poors to eat cake.
Brexit was a horrific mistake, one that will take decades to fix (up to and including the UK re-joining). In the meantime, the folks at the top stop just short of telling the poors to eat cake.
The same happens in the US every few years as well.
There have been recessions during or after almost every major Republican president's term (Not even trying to be political about this, but history clearly shows the trend)... It's almost as if it is engineered for personal profit. The biggest threat to rebounds this time is the increase in threat of environmental decline and infectious disease that is not allowing economic recovery to be stable.
The only thing supporting whether stability can be re-achieved is the willingness of the middle and lower class to keep paying increasing taxes every year to fund recovery. Governments have been taking taxpayers for granted for ages now, and it's a tipping point that shouldn't be underestimated. Taxes are very high, and bailouts are literally leaking funds to (already very wealthy) people and companies that ritually skirt taxes.
Paying half of an annual salary to government when you see far more wealthy people ritually skirting their tax obligations, and where infrastructure is failing, where healthcare is weak, when the environment is falling apart, when consumer goods and services are radically overpriced, where employees of vital services are quitting, where safety is under threat daily, and where career opportunity is limited -- Well, it's not something that is sustainable at all to say the least.
There have been recessions during or after almost every major Republican president's term (Not even trying to be political about this, but history clearly shows the trend)... It's almost as if it is engineered for personal profit. The biggest threat to rebounds this time is the increase in threat of environmental decline and infectious disease that is not allowing economic recovery to be stable.
The only thing supporting whether stability can be re-achieved is the willingness of the middle and lower class to keep paying increasing taxes every year to fund recovery. Governments have been taking taxpayers for granted for ages now, and it's a tipping point that shouldn't be underestimated. Taxes are very high, and bailouts are literally leaking funds to (already very wealthy) people and companies that ritually skirt taxes.
Paying half of an annual salary to government when you see far more wealthy people ritually skirting their tax obligations, and where infrastructure is failing, where healthcare is weak, when the environment is falling apart, when consumer goods and services are radically overpriced, where employees of vital services are quitting, where safety is under threat daily, and where career opportunity is limited -- Well, it's not something that is sustainable at all to say the least.
Please stop viewing everything through the political hammer of one ideology over another. That would fail to explain what constructed the 52% or why in part the vote was called.
Of course it was badly managed by a British govt but this is like saying rain will be wet. It's a given.
I'm not saying Brexit was a good financial, economical, social or societal motivator, but unfortunately the argument for a lot of people clearly became philosophical. (Notice how I'm not saying all)
If this was all so good why did this get to a situation where half the country was displeased despite the blairite years? And the argument of "big red bus lied to us" only shows contempt for the ill educated either people are smart and educated enough to engage on this or they're not, there's no "take backs" in first past the post politics.
Of course it was badly managed by a British govt but this is like saying rain will be wet. It's a given.
I'm not saying Brexit was a good financial, economical, social or societal motivator, but unfortunately the argument for a lot of people clearly became philosophical. (Notice how I'm not saying all)
If this was all so good why did this get to a situation where half the country was displeased despite the blairite years? And the argument of "big red bus lied to us" only shows contempt for the ill educated either people are smart and educated enough to engage on this or they're not, there's no "take backs" in first past the post politics.
Sounds pretty typical for any country specific subreddit.
"Anger as train firm boss awarded £1m share bonus amid strikes and railway chaos"
"'No 10 have completely checked out. It’s really bad': Inside Boris Johnson’s zombie Government"
"Cost of living: More pets being abandoned, dogs home says"
"Over-50s turn to house-shares to beat rising rents"
"Price cap seen to breach £6,000 for first time in grim new forecast"
"‘We are being abandoned’: when the energy bill goes up by £100,000 a day"
"Libraries and museums to be ‘warm havens’ for people struggling with energy bills"
"Price of a pint of of beer in London surging towards £14 [in 2025] as inflation rises, according to analysis"
"Fuel poverty: better-off urged to donate £400 energy grant to those who need it | Fuel poverty"
"London’s broken housing will destroy the economy – and the Conservative Party"