Is Truss Still PM?(is-truss-still-pm.uk)
is-truss-still-pm.uk
Is Truss Still PM?
https://is-truss-still-pm.uk/
56 comments
> that alien would assume it was Jeremy Hunt
A real alien would realise that it was the Tufton Street gang.
A real alien would realise that it was the Tufton Street gang.
Yes, they're now using the term PMINO for Truss.
Full form?
Prime Minister In Name Only
Easily checked at https://twitter.com/search?q=pmino&src=typed_query
Easily checked at https://twitter.com/search?q=pmino&src=typed_query
PM in name only if I had to guess
See also the Liz Truss vs Lettuce live stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm-RE95lKJ0
did she really publicly address the lettuce livestream?
From a democratic point of view the only thing that makes sense to me now is a snap election.
The Tories have now had one PM resign in disgrace and then seemingly failed to set up an acceptable new cabinet. I see no reason why they should keep their mandate without renewed voter support.
I suppose the king could instruct Labour to try to form a minority cabinet, but that's beyond my understanding of the procedures of British parliamentary practice.
The Tories have now had one PM resign in disgrace and then seemingly failed to set up an acceptable new cabinet. I see no reason why they should keep their mandate without renewed voter support.
I suppose the king could instruct Labour to try to form a minority cabinet, but that's beyond my understanding of the procedures of British parliamentary practice.
> I suppose the king could instruct Labour to try to form a minority cabinet
If you'd like to know more about the complex details of the role that the monarch could play in deciding the next PM (without an election), I recommend reading about the Lascelles Principles.[0]
You should particularly note one line from that article: "The convention was in abeyance from 2011 to 2022, ... these principles are thought to have been revived." (emphasis mine).
Basically, the UK's creaky, uncodified, thousand-year old constitution doesn't actually allow legal experts (much less the public) to know for sure whether these hugely consequential principles even exist any more.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lascelles_Principles
If you'd like to know more about the complex details of the role that the monarch could play in deciding the next PM (without an election), I recommend reading about the Lascelles Principles.[0]
You should particularly note one line from that article: "The convention was in abeyance from 2011 to 2022, ... these principles are thought to have been revived." (emphasis mine).
Basically, the UK's creaky, uncodified, thousand-year old constitution doesn't actually allow legal experts (much less the public) to know for sure whether these hugely consequential principles even exist any more.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lascelles_Principles
Without an election Labour dont have enough seats to be an effective minority government. They would need either lots of support from other parties.
Best option right now is an election, its really our only path to stability. But the Tories will hang on for as long as they can as they are expecting to be wiped out if they held an election right now.
Best option right now is an election, its really our only path to stability. But the Tories will hang on for as long as they can as they are expecting to be wiped out if they held an election right now.
It would be nice if there was a way for the people to request an election anytime.
For example... Anyone can gather 100 signatures asking for an election. Then the electoral commission will select 1000 people at random from the electoral register and ask them "Should the UK hold an immediate election?". And then if the majority of those responding say yes, then an election happens.
For example... Anyone can gather 100 signatures asking for an election. Then the electoral commission will select 1000 people at random from the electoral register and ask them "Should the UK hold an immediate election?". And then if the majority of those responding say yes, then an election happens.
A method similar to that should certainly be introduced for triggering recall elections of individual MPs (possibly with a condition that the expense of the by-election be covered by crowd-funding).
To your point, though, there is "a way for the people to request an election anytime", and it has been used already, to little effect:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/when-next-general-e...
To your point, though, there is "a way for the people to request an election anytime", and it has been used already, to little effect:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/when-next-general-e...
I am sure such system would never be abused or tempered with even.
Queue in gerrymandering.
Queue in gerrymandering.
I don't really see how it can be gamed...
The worst that can happen is nuisance elections.
The worst that can happen is nuisance elections.
By what process do you think there would be one?
Unless the Conservatives decide that they don't want to be in power any more, there is no way to make an election happen.
Unless the Conservatives decide that they don't want to be in power any more, there is no way to make an election happen.
> By what process do you think there would be one?
To give an extreme answer: a general strike.[0]
The government has already shown that it will remove senior ministers in response to market turmoil, so this sets the precedent that something like a general strike (which would be hugely damaging to the economy) could be enough to remove Truss.
In the short term that might only lead to a new "caretaker" PM who will attempt to run things for the next couple of years, but it might also embolden those who organised the general strike to try again, and again, until an election was called.
[0] https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/09/what-is-a-general-strike-as-u...
To give an extreme answer: a general strike.[0]
The government has already shown that it will remove senior ministers in response to market turmoil, so this sets the precedent that something like a general strike (which would be hugely damaging to the economy) could be enough to remove Truss.
In the short term that might only lead to a new "caretaker" PM who will attempt to run things for the next couple of years, but it might also embolden those who organised the general strike to try again, and again, until an election was called.
[0] https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/09/what-is-a-general-strike-as-u...
Yeah, that's the unfortunate reality when the Tories hold a majority alone.
A single party majority is not a healthy state of affairs because it basically bypasses parliamentarism. Good luck ever having even the possibility of a minority cabinet, and good luck triggering an election when the majority party misbehaves.
A single party majority is not a healthy state of affairs because it basically bypasses parliamentarism. Good luck ever having even the possibility of a minority cabinet, and good luck triggering an election when the majority party misbehaves.
Truss's situation is better described as a superposition until we observe her next action.
Schrödinger's PM?
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She might still be PM but it really feels like she was replaced with Hunt already.
Someone pointed out that Hunts run for leader got nowhere so it can't really be him that's in charge. It must be others (Tory Politburo) who told Truss to appoint Hunt.
And of course, I've bookmarked that site to check on later to see if it handles time zones... sigh.
[deleted]
Good thing that people voted for david cameron's "strong and stable" government back in 2015.
The morning's still young here in Greenwich Mean Time tho. :-D
There's no auto-update of the page if the status changes! ;-)
For fans of the cycling monuments: https://www.ismilansanremoexcitingyet.com
We need an isstradebiancheamonumentyet.net.
Good job on the speedy update.
Is there any reason to think she's about to leave or is this some wishful thinking from the usual suspects?
As well as the disastrous mini-budget and replacement of the chancellor?
One of the procedures by which she can be replaced involves 'letters of no confidence' being sent to the '1922 committee'. There are a bunch of newspaper articles saying that committee has been having discreet meetings and talking to Truss yesterday.
Which is the political equivalent of getting invited to a same-day meeting with your boss and HR entitled 'private meeting'.
One of the procedures by which she can be replaced involves 'letters of no confidence' being sent to the '1922 committee'. There are a bunch of newspaper articles saying that committee has been having discreet meetings and talking to Truss yesterday.
Which is the political equivalent of getting invited to a same-day meeting with your boss and HR entitled 'private meeting'.
The betting markets have about 60% for her leaving this year: https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.2030...
Is the usual suspects her party colleagues? Feels like it's almost becoming a tradition in the conservative party at this point.
I'm betting by next week.
Have you seen the news in the UK this week?
She's had a terrible week (and that's saying something given her premiership to date).
She had to sack the chancellor that enacted all of her campaign promises, bring in a new chancellor who has undone all of her campaign promises.
Some of the polls coming out suggest the Conservatives would be in 3rd place at a General Election behind the SNP.
She's had a terrible week (and that's saying something given her premiership to date).
She had to sack the chancellor that enacted all of her campaign promises, bring in a new chancellor who has undone all of her campaign promises.
Some of the polls coming out suggest the Conservatives would be in 3rd place at a General Election behind the SNP.
Holy shit I hadn't checked in a few weeks, but yeah if an election was held tomorrow they could potentially finish third: https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
There's a map here that graphically shows just what a wipeout it would be: https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/158203973484657459...
Not a speck of blue north of the border and that worm Douglas Ross out of a job. Glorious. Wonder if anything will change in the next 2 years ...
Fourth behind the SNP in some cases.
The page said "Yes"; the page is wrong.
The new Chancellor of the Exchequer is not under Truss's control, he's under the control of men in grey suits. If Truss doesn't control cabinet ministers, she isn't the Prime Minister.
We have no government; we need a General Election immediately. This is a very dangerous situation.
The new Chancellor of the Exchequer is not under Truss's control, he's under the control of men in grey suits. If Truss doesn't control cabinet ministers, she isn't the Prime Minister.
We have no government; we need a General Election immediately. This is a very dangerous situation.
It's not dangerous. Other countries have managed with their parliamentary system out of action for extended amounts of time. That's the point of having strong institutions and a civil service. The Tories haven't totally destroyed that yet, despite their efforts.
If you want things like the UK's National Health Service to exist, it is pretty dangerous to have someone like Jeremy Hunt wielding this kind of power. The situation might not wreck or bankrupt the country outright, but it opens the door for all manner of public services to be gutted
But it's not just the parliamentary system that's out of action; it's the government. The nominal head of the government is obviously a dead duck. The tune the chancellor is playing is being called by the Bank of England (and others unnamed), none of whom was elected, and none of whose policy preferences have been presented to the public, let alone approved.
This would be a fantastic moment to stage a coup. And there are generals in-post who evidently favour something like that. But who knows - maybe it's already happened.
I think it's dangerous.
This would be a fantastic moment to stage a coup. And there are generals in-post who evidently favour something like that. But who knows - maybe it's already happened.
I think it's dangerous.
I still don't understand why you think it's dangerous. Government sets policy. Even when they make changes it takes time for policy decisions to actually take effect. The civil service and bureaucracy will continue with the previous policies until the government gets its act together. There's no problem until budget time. Quite frankly it's probably less dangerous if the Tories stop doing any governing for a little while.
> The tune the chancellor is playing is being called by the Bank of England (and others unnamed), none of whom was elected, and none of whose policy preferences have been presented to the public, let alone approved.
As is always the case. That's a deeper issue and not anything to do with the current crisis, you've just seen the covers pulled back for 5 minutes.
> The tune the chancellor is playing is being called by the Bank of England (and others unnamed), none of whom was elected, and none of whose policy preferences have been presented to the public, let alone approved.
As is always the case. That's a deeper issue and not anything to do with the current crisis, you've just seen the covers pulled back for 5 minutes.
Indeed Belgium was without (elected) government for 652 days in 2018 - 2020.
The Belgian government system is quite different from the UK system.
Only dangerous if you think she’s going to go rogue with one of her Prerogative powers, which is unlikely given it appears she’s under close supervision by the Parliamentary Conservative Party.
> she’s under close supervision by the Parliamentary Conservative Party.
Interesting. Only 20% of the PCP voted for her, yet she's nominally PM. Reportedly many conservative MPs are considering crossing the floor. Others are trying to figure out how to get her to hand-over to someone else (who?) without another leadership election, and especially without letting the party members have any say.
How are the PCP supposed to keep her "under close supervision"?
Interesting. Only 20% of the PCP voted for her, yet she's nominally PM. Reportedly many conservative MPs are considering crossing the floor. Others are trying to figure out how to get her to hand-over to someone else (who?) without another leadership election, and especially without letting the party members have any say.
How are the PCP supposed to keep her "under close supervision"?
She’s under close supervision of the Tufton Street lot, not the PCP.
[citation needed]
> It was a title that was used just to describe the most dominant minister of the day, the one who controlled the cabinet and had the confidence of parliament – usually the First Lord of the Treasury but sometimes not.
> And if today one asked an alien looking down from space who was the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, that alien would assume it was Jeremy Hunt.
[1] https://davidallengreen.com/2022/10/a-prime-minister-in-name...