Ask HN: How to deal with burn out whilst in probationary period?
95 comments
Background: I have only worked on small teams, usually in small companies. I have done hiring and firing and had one newly-hired employee dealing with burnout and others with other mental health issues.
I'm assuming the boss/company cannot afford to keep you on indefinitely if you're not productive. As a manager, how I react to you bringing some version of this to me honestly depends a lot on how promising I thought you were and how well you seem to be doing so far.
If you're doing really well and I had no idea you were feeling burnt out until you told me, I want to find ways to accommodate within whatever my constraints are and help you get on your feet. Likewise if your work quality and productivity varies a lot with some excellent and some disappointing, though it's critical that some be excellent, or at least excellent-given-your-level-and-how-long-you've-been-here.
If you haven't given me much reason to believe you're going to be a great asset to the team eventually, I'm sympathetic but it's going to seem like a bad business decision to pay you while you drag down the perceived 'bar' of productivity.
I'm assuming the boss/company cannot afford to keep you on indefinitely if you're not productive. As a manager, how I react to you bringing some version of this to me honestly depends a lot on how promising I thought you were and how well you seem to be doing so far.
If you're doing really well and I had no idea you were feeling burnt out until you told me, I want to find ways to accommodate within whatever my constraints are and help you get on your feet. Likewise if your work quality and productivity varies a lot with some excellent and some disappointing, though it's critical that some be excellent, or at least excellent-given-your-level-and-how-long-you've-been-here.
If you haven't given me much reason to believe you're going to be a great asset to the team eventually, I'm sympathetic but it's going to seem like a bad business decision to pay you while you drag down the perceived 'bar' of productivity.
Seek professional help. Meds or therapy might help. Don't face this alone.
And no, don't tell your boss. If they haven't noticed your burnout by now, it'll only make them be super critical of everything you do. Yes, bosses can be friends but it's a new job, I doubt you have bonded that strongly already (or you wouldn't be asking this question here in the first place).
And no, don't tell your boss. If they haven't noticed your burnout by now, it'll only make them be super critical of everything you do. Yes, bosses can be friends but it's a new job, I doubt you have bonded that strongly already (or you wouldn't be asking this question here in the first place).
I love how its a normal thing to drug someone up just so they can cope with going to a job that is making them feel like shit.
Is there a choice though? If people can't afford a break, often at the expense of losing the current position they have no choice but to slug through and swim back to the surface. I bet that if the industry had a mandatory one month time off this problem would almost disappear.
Agreed, but the old school approach was to smoke during the day and drink in the evening. "Pick your poison."
Actually drinking in the day at least from 12 noon was pretty acceptable too about 20yrs ago. Large companies often had a management bar in the UK. Office staff had a drinks cabinet.
You're assuming the job is the root cause. Please refrain from dispensing medical advice in an online forum.
Op is not assuming the job is the root cause. Clearly in this case the poster is stressed by their job, and it isn't giving them more energy than they begin with; it’s the reason they said they don't have vacation but otherwise would like a break.
So in this case, a user is suggesting taking drugs to continue to slough through work.
So in this case, a user is suggesting taking drugs to continue to slough through work.
No, a user is suggesting seeking professional advice for the poster's situation and then lists two options that maybe can help.
Why don't you focus on the suggestion to do therapy instead? Not as outraging, I suppose.
You and op are reacting as if someone suggested the poster should be drugged out of their mind, maybe with saliva dripping from their face, completely numb to reality vs. just quitting the job.
Both a false dichotomy and a lot of assumptions.
Why don't you focus on the suggestion to do therapy instead? Not as outraging, I suppose.
You and op are reacting as if someone suggested the poster should be drugged out of their mind, maybe with saliva dripping from their face, completely numb to reality vs. just quitting the job.
Both a false dichotomy and a lot of assumptions.
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Yeah. Depression is the real burnout. Brain fog is depression. Talk with a doctor.
> If they haven't noticed your burnout by now, it'll only make them be super critical of everything you do.
This is just not universally true! Many managers out there are compassionate and understanding. Makes me sad to imagine where some of y'all work that you feel that way.
This is just not universally true! Many managers out there are compassionate and understanding. Makes me sad to imagine where some of y'all work that you feel that way.
Your boss is NOT your friend. Just because you work well with someone doesn’t mean they are your friend. It is a grave mistake to confuse work colleagues as friends.
Maybe the last bit is overly harsh - colleagues can become friends, and maybe also your boss, but I wouldn't trust my boss with this info either after only a few months. I mean, if this is supposed to be your dream job, and you already lack the motivation to put in the work after such a short time, even if they like you as a person, that might give them doubts about how you would fit in in the future. OTOH, if your boss has already noticed, saying something along the lines of "I'm actually really glad I have this job, it's my personal situation etc. that's bringing me down, but I'm working on it" (even if it's not 100% true) might be a good idea...
Logical operators are failing us in this discussion, so I'll try restructuring it:
Your boss can be your friend, and prioritize their job over your friendship.
It's easy to get into a social position where we place too much trust into friendship driving the decisions people make.
Like you said, replacing that trust with distrust can block you, not only from the negative opportunities we want to avoid (like your boss firing you for burnout), but also the positive opportunities (like your boss helping you overcome the burnout).
It would be really convenient if either one of these choices (trust vs. distrust) was a clear winner, but it looks like neither of them is intrinsically better.
The silver lining is that your relationship with your boss isn't the only or most important relationship your can have. Even if you don't have the opportunity to get help from your boss to deal with your burnout, you can still seek help from others. Some people, like trained therapists, are well equipped and motivated to help.
Your boss can be your friend, and prioritize their job over your friendship.
It's easy to get into a social position where we place too much trust into friendship driving the decisions people make.
Like you said, replacing that trust with distrust can block you, not only from the negative opportunities we want to avoid (like your boss firing you for burnout), but also the positive opportunities (like your boss helping you overcome the burnout).
It would be really convenient if either one of these choices (trust vs. distrust) was a clear winner, but it looks like neither of them is intrinsically better.
The silver lining is that your relationship with your boss isn't the only or most important relationship your can have. Even if you don't have the opportunity to get help from your boss to deal with your burnout, you can still seek help from others. Some people, like trained therapists, are well equipped and motivated to help.
Your boss can only be your friend to the degree they either don’t need their job or don’t perceive it to be at risk.
You are not alone.
I left a job of 3 years after feeling a little bored/frustrated, thought a new job would fix things but it only made things worse. I last 2 months before leaving for another job, 3 months into that and I felt equally burned out. No amount of gritting my teeth has made it completely easy and all these jobs were paying 400k+ in total comp, so the money wasn't making it tolerable either.
Given I have a sick family member and a mortgage to pay, I can't just quit or loose this job. So I remind myself that others have it much worse and that I really need this job.
My strategy so far: 1. Set an end date, I know that I'm going to switch jobs and roll the dice again at a pre-determined time. This helps me be more sane by having a finite timeline on leaving this environment. 2. Coast as much as possible, do just enough to stay employed and don't work too hard or sacrifice your mental energy/health for things like technical debates or politics. Just do what people ask to stay afloat, don't make enemies and try to be someone non-controversial that everyone likes (or at least doesn't hate) to talk to. 3. Focus any and all free time on things that make you happy. Do hobbies that don't involve screens, make physical things, exercise, see your friends, have quality time with your wife and kids, work on developing new skills that make you feel fulfilled.
Not sure if this is relevant to you, but the most important thing for me has been recognizing that (for me personally) work is not a place to get fulfillment or meaning out of life. Can it do that sometimes? Sure it can, it has for small periods of time for me. But if you rely on it being your primary source of identity and meaning, then you are inevitably going to be burnt out and disappointed eventually. Find meaning in the rest of life and have more balance.
I left a job of 3 years after feeling a little bored/frustrated, thought a new job would fix things but it only made things worse. I last 2 months before leaving for another job, 3 months into that and I felt equally burned out. No amount of gritting my teeth has made it completely easy and all these jobs were paying 400k+ in total comp, so the money wasn't making it tolerable either.
Given I have a sick family member and a mortgage to pay, I can't just quit or loose this job. So I remind myself that others have it much worse and that I really need this job.
My strategy so far: 1. Set an end date, I know that I'm going to switch jobs and roll the dice again at a pre-determined time. This helps me be more sane by having a finite timeline on leaving this environment. 2. Coast as much as possible, do just enough to stay employed and don't work too hard or sacrifice your mental energy/health for things like technical debates or politics. Just do what people ask to stay afloat, don't make enemies and try to be someone non-controversial that everyone likes (or at least doesn't hate) to talk to. 3. Focus any and all free time on things that make you happy. Do hobbies that don't involve screens, make physical things, exercise, see your friends, have quality time with your wife and kids, work on developing new skills that make you feel fulfilled.
Not sure if this is relevant to you, but the most important thing for me has been recognizing that (for me personally) work is not a place to get fulfillment or meaning out of life. Can it do that sometimes? Sure it can, it has for small periods of time for me. But if you rely on it being your primary source of identity and meaning, then you are inevitably going to be burnt out and disappointed eventually. Find meaning in the rest of life and have more balance.
Interesting you said about doing hobbies that don’t involve screens, this is a realisation I’ve had, all of my time is on a screen, I haven’t spoken to anyone face to face in a long time. Even when I was trying to find a therapist they offered virtual meetings. I politely declined and said I would actually like to be in the same room as someone.
I think with home office and being on screens only this doesn’t help with mental health either.
I think with home office and being on screens only this doesn’t help with mental health either.
Personally, when I've been burned out, the cause hasn't been a single factor and it was gradual. Not sure if this was mentioned in the prior comments, but imo the first person that you should discuss this with is your wife and depending on how close you are, the rest of your support system (friends, other family). E.g. wife might agree to take over some larger load, look after the kids instead of you for larger period of time, provide you more space or not nag you for some projects that you were supposed to do.
The point is for them to provide support and to allow you to gradually get out of the burn out.
From my point of view, burn out is not a binary state and by alleviating some factors you can have a bigger recharge than what you spend. If you do any changes, try to be aware if you seeing any improvements and if not consider more drastic changes.
I wouldn't talk about this with my boss, unless the rest of the changes is not working.
Whilst I agree fully with you that having a partner take over some of the tasks (kids, etc) she is unable/unwilling to. Net result after speaking to her about burning out, nothing changed, I’m still doing all of the same things I was before and have no way to unload anything. Which makes me question why I’m married and if I should continue to be.
Agree with a comment that said to throw money at the problem, babysitter or whatever. It helps _if_ money is not a big problem. I used to be a lot more careful with money but since kids, I timebox the amount of time I spend on any thing that I need to spend money even if the end result means I'm leaving some more money on the table. Peace of mind is the ultimate goal.
Identify things that are really important to you (almost at a ruthless level), and shortcut/ignore the rest. This means prioritizing also time to relax (walk, read a book, meditate or whatever you do to relax) even if there are other things/chores that are in queue. Accept that some things will be delayed or not be done in the next few months until you get back to your footing. Recognize that during burnout, your efficiency is 50%, so reduce your load accordingly.
A comment I read a while ago in HN is "don't be the person that cares the most about things". While I don't think it applies to all issues, I apply it to some things. Try to apply the 80/20 (20% effort for 80% of work done) Personally, during burnout, I've gone almost in survival mode. I completely cut alcohol (even beer), soft drinks, etc, try to sleep well, and try to exercise (or walk) just because it improves my energy levels. If small kids that require lots of attention, consider babysitter, kindergarden or take them to the park (if there's one close by) during the time you are in charge. Personally I find that kids require less effort/energy outdoors. Youtube videos are also useful in a pinch (see "super simple songs" or "cocomelon" which have 1hr long videos)... try not to let them see more than 1-2hrs per day.
Regarding wife, when you're burned out, things look more pessimistic and you're less likely to let something slide. Maybe she's also overwhelmed and/or burned out and/or in "ruthless/survivor" mode. See if there are things that she's doing that can be delegated through money (order food instead of cooking, get someone to help clean/laundry, etc). If she gets some time back, she might be more able/willing to help with the load. Recognize that priorities are not the same, I personally don't care much about cleaning but my wife does. Try to always communicate...
Remember that if your burnout gets worse, it will be worse not only for you but also for your family ... All said, I'm just someone on the internet that doesn't know much about your situation, so take everything with a grain of salt.
Identify things that are really important to you (almost at a ruthless level), and shortcut/ignore the rest. This means prioritizing also time to relax (walk, read a book, meditate or whatever you do to relax) even if there are other things/chores that are in queue. Accept that some things will be delayed or not be done in the next few months until you get back to your footing. Recognize that during burnout, your efficiency is 50%, so reduce your load accordingly.
A comment I read a while ago in HN is "don't be the person that cares the most about things". While I don't think it applies to all issues, I apply it to some things. Try to apply the 80/20 (20% effort for 80% of work done) Personally, during burnout, I've gone almost in survival mode. I completely cut alcohol (even beer), soft drinks, etc, try to sleep well, and try to exercise (or walk) just because it improves my energy levels. If small kids that require lots of attention, consider babysitter, kindergarden or take them to the park (if there's one close by) during the time you are in charge. Personally I find that kids require less effort/energy outdoors. Youtube videos are also useful in a pinch (see "super simple songs" or "cocomelon" which have 1hr long videos)... try not to let them see more than 1-2hrs per day.
Regarding wife, when you're burned out, things look more pessimistic and you're less likely to let something slide. Maybe she's also overwhelmed and/or burned out and/or in "ruthless/survivor" mode. See if there are things that she's doing that can be delegated through money (order food instead of cooking, get someone to help clean/laundry, etc). If she gets some time back, she might be more able/willing to help with the load. Recognize that priorities are not the same, I personally don't care much about cleaning but my wife does. Try to always communicate...
Remember that if your burnout gets worse, it will be worse not only for you but also for your family ... All said, I'm just someone on the internet that doesn't know much about your situation, so take everything with a grain of salt.
Get a babysitter asap. Dad of two speaking here. Do it. Day care. Throw money at the problem. Get breathing room.
Your prime directive is to take care of YOU, since YOU are needed to be able to take care of the rest.
Your prime directive is to take care of YOU, since YOU are needed to be able to take care of the rest.
Also: start seeing couples therapist. Learn about personal boundaries (boundary boss podcast and book).
Learn about co-dependency.
Learn about co-dependency.
Are you exercising? If not get out for a walk/hike or run every day to help you refresh.
I know with kids/marriage/etc this can be hard to do but I (someone in a similar situation) find that an hour of exercise every day makes all the difference in the world.
I know with kids/marriage/etc this can be hard to do but I (someone in a similar situation) find that an hour of exercise every day makes all the difference in the world.
Exercise helps because it completes the stress cycle[1]. When burnt out it can be hard to find time, so try one of these and see if they help:
* High intensity intervals. Do 2 minutes of light intensity cardio as warm up. Then alternate 20 seconds at top effort with 10 seconds of rest. 10 cycles of this will only take you 5 minutes. You should be out of breath by the end. * Faster version of yoga woodchopper pose[2]. Stand with feet apart and knees slightly bent. Clasp hands and raise above head. Bend knees and bring your hands down while you exhale with a loud "Ha!" Do it slow a few times for warm up, then do it fast and imagine your hands crushing a stressor at the bottom. Yell if it won't disturb the neighbors. * Tense your whole body for 20 seconds, then slowly exhale and release the tension. While tensing, imagine either beating up or successfully running away from something that is stressing you out.
[1] https://www.feministsurvivalproject.com/episodes/episode-02-... [2] https://youtube.com/watch?v=u1HjZ49xAPc
* High intensity intervals. Do 2 minutes of light intensity cardio as warm up. Then alternate 20 seconds at top effort with 10 seconds of rest. 10 cycles of this will only take you 5 minutes. You should be out of breath by the end. * Faster version of yoga woodchopper pose[2]. Stand with feet apart and knees slightly bent. Clasp hands and raise above head. Bend knees and bring your hands down while you exhale with a loud "Ha!" Do it slow a few times for warm up, then do it fast and imagine your hands crushing a stressor at the bottom. Yell if it won't disturb the neighbors. * Tense your whole body for 20 seconds, then slowly exhale and release the tension. While tensing, imagine either beating up or successfully running away from something that is stressing you out.
[1] https://www.feministsurvivalproject.com/episodes/episode-02-... [2] https://youtube.com/watch?v=u1HjZ49xAPc
Thanks for the tips, I’ll try these!
Read or listen to Peter Levine: the Tiger Awakens.
> an hour of exercise every day
I don't disagree, but trying to make room for an hour of time every day can be very hard depending on your situation, especially at first. I'd say do 30 min 3 days a week to start with. It'll help and won't be so much time that you feel even more stressed for taking time that isn't immediately "productive".
Exactly this :( time is a killer. My day usually starts around 6.30 and ends when the kids go to sleep around 20:00 at which time all I can think about is crawling into bed by 10 to do it all again the next day
Well I know exactly where you're coming from then. I'm in a very similar situation to yours where the past two jobs I had burned me out. Now I'm in a new position (same as you, 4 months in) and it's much better, yet I still have trouble doing my work. And by better, I mean I'm learning new things and there's less pressure. Unfortunately, some things at this company are disorganized and I constantly hit roadblocks which kills my motivation.
So I'm just trying to trudge along and progress when and where I can, and try my best to get my work done. I'm fortunately working from home, so no commute to add to the burnout. I've also not had a decent vacation in years. I did take two weeks off between my last job and this one, but that was mainly to catch up around the house. I tried to negotiate vacation time at this position, but they refused, which means I'm slowly accruing PTO. I'm hoping by April I'll have enough to take two weeks off and go somewhere nice.
I'm not sure I have advice that others haven't given. But it can get better. Rely on your wife or family if you can to help with the kids and house, and push them for help if need be. Find a therapist if you think that could help. Make sure to keep work and life separate as much as you can. Meaning be sure to unplug from work when you're home, and to have as few distractions from home while working. If you do find yourself getting distracted at work, see if you can walk away for a bit (even literally go for a short walk). Also, rely on your coworkers to help you. Ask, even nag, them for assistance if you get stuck. Try to make friends at work, and maybe push for fun, team-building events if that doesn't currently happen. I think showing you're trying will be big if your boss thinks productivity isn't where it should be.
Good luck!
So I'm just trying to trudge along and progress when and where I can, and try my best to get my work done. I'm fortunately working from home, so no commute to add to the burnout. I've also not had a decent vacation in years. I did take two weeks off between my last job and this one, but that was mainly to catch up around the house. I tried to negotiate vacation time at this position, but they refused, which means I'm slowly accruing PTO. I'm hoping by April I'll have enough to take two weeks off and go somewhere nice.
I'm not sure I have advice that others haven't given. But it can get better. Rely on your wife or family if you can to help with the kids and house, and push them for help if need be. Find a therapist if you think that could help. Make sure to keep work and life separate as much as you can. Meaning be sure to unplug from work when you're home, and to have as few distractions from home while working. If you do find yourself getting distracted at work, see if you can walk away for a bit (even literally go for a short walk). Also, rely on your coworkers to help you. Ask, even nag, them for assistance if you get stuck. Try to make friends at work, and maybe push for fun, team-building events if that doesn't currently happen. I think showing you're trying will be big if your boss thinks productivity isn't where it should be.
Good luck!
I’ll be honest I just can’t find the motivation to do so. Even when I’m not so tired I feel guilty about leaving the kids to my wife etc and when I’m out I tend to rush back to support/take over. I know this is probably an issue with how I view this and not necessarily because I’m made to feel guilty.
Learn to acknowledge the guilt but not give into it. Do this by feeling the guilt, and postpone any action towards it. If only for a few seconds. Turn that second into minutes. Minutes into hours.
Your guilt is false. Your kids will be fine. Your wife will be fine.
Communicate with your wife that this is what you are going to do. And continually how it is going.
Your guilt is false. Your kids will be fine. Your wife will be fine.
Communicate with your wife that this is what you are going to do. And continually how it is going.
My advice would be to sit out the other two months and then take sick leave. Look for help already though whilst you're going through these last two months of probation.
I would advice not discussing this with the company until your probationary period is over. As they can let you go for any reason. Once you are through you have a firm ground to take time off and recover.
I'm not sure if you're in EU or not. But at least in Germany if you are let go during probation whilst on sick leave, your health insurer will pay out 70% of your salary until you are better. After that the unemployment office will take over. Id advice talking to a local employment lawyer to know your rights but know there is usually a safety net for these scenarios. Perhaps it makes you feel more secure in calling in sick even if you are still in the probation period.
If you happen to be in Germany and need someone to talk to to figure things out regarding your rights feel free to DM me on Twitter.
I would advice not discussing this with the company until your probationary period is over. As they can let you go for any reason. Once you are through you have a firm ground to take time off and recover.
I'm not sure if you're in EU or not. But at least in Germany if you are let go during probation whilst on sick leave, your health insurer will pay out 70% of your salary until you are better. After that the unemployment office will take over. Id advice talking to a local employment lawyer to know your rights but know there is usually a safety net for these scenarios. Perhaps it makes you feel more secure in calling in sick even if you are still in the probation period.
If you happen to be in Germany and need someone to talk to to figure things out regarding your rights feel free to DM me on Twitter.
Thanks for the information I’ll be in touch!
I don't like recommending that anyone take drugs so they can cope with their job — it reeks of dystopia. But in your situation, the path of least resistance is to go to a psychiatrist and ask for an antidepressant. Make sure to mention if you have trouble sleeping as this will affect the choice of treatment.
Over time, hopefully you will be able to find other ways to manage stress, and take a well-deserved vacation.
Over time, hopefully you will be able to find other ways to manage stress, and take a well-deserved vacation.
@ohlookwhatsthat Firstly, you are not alone. I'm going through something similar. I'm used to staying at jobs a long time (years at a time)...but 8 months into my current job, and what should have been my dream job, and I am already seeking a new job. And my job before that, I was there only 7 months. Something about these last 2 jobs where i am burnt out and unhappy. And my current job - again, should be my dreamjob at least in title - but its far from it. Before i started looking for a new job, lately i have been coping with what @mytailorisrich suggested: "...try to find ways to relax in the evenings and weekends...". That seems to work a little. It certainly does not solve the issues that i'm feeling, but it helps cope...while i figure out my next step. Honestly, as a technologist, i frankly don't know if i should go to yet another tech job - and risk encountering yet another crappy situation - or pivot to a different career? Of course pivting comes with a liklely lowering of salary, so there's that to contend with - if i choose that route.
I'm sorry that i don't have a solution for you. But i just wanted to say that you are not alone. Maybe try exercise or some other distraction...again to help cope woith things. Who knows, maybe as you do these other coping activities, maybe you wil stumble on what your solution could be? Good luck, feel better, and hang in there! If you wish to chat, feel free to reach out; my HN profile has my contact info.
I'm sorry that i don't have a solution for you. But i just wanted to say that you are not alone. Maybe try exercise or some other distraction...again to help cope woith things. Who knows, maybe as you do these other coping activities, maybe you wil stumble on what your solution could be? Good luck, feel better, and hang in there! If you wish to chat, feel free to reach out; my HN profile has my contact info.
Thanks and I hope you get through this! It sounds very similar to my situation.
I left a comfortable job for a challenge, joined another company and within 4 months everything changed and I decided to move again to my now dream job in tech. Every single one there has been something missing.
I’ve also thought about doing something totally different but the problem is with a family there is a requirement for a certain level of “life/living” if it was just me changing to be a taxi driver or something else would be possible as it’s easier to change your living situation if it’s just you.
I left a comfortable job for a challenge, joined another company and within 4 months everything changed and I decided to move again to my now dream job in tech. Every single one there has been something missing.
I’ve also thought about doing something totally different but the problem is with a family there is a requirement for a certain level of “life/living” if it was just me changing to be a taxi driver or something else would be possible as it’s easier to change your living situation if it’s just you.
> "...with a family there is a requirement for a certain level of “life/living” if it was just me changing to be a taxi driver or something else would be possible as it’s easier to change your living situation if it’s just you..."
OMG, its like you have been reading my mind, and living my same life! :-) Let's hope we all get through this!
OMG, its like you have been reading my mind, and living my same life! :-) Let's hope we all get through this!
I'm surprised no one is commenting on the lack of vacation for 4 months. You can't even take a single day off? I'd be looking for another job due to that alone.
Because of changing jobs I’ve had a grand total of 2 weeks holiday since June ‘21. In probationary period and zero holiday balance.
I've read that you may be in Germany?
If that's true: why do you have zero holiday balance?
I think, firstly, you need to start working on yourself, ask your partner to help you navigate through this difficult time. Proactively find ways to get your productivity and passion to learn back....Get a standing desk if you have not already, personally, I found standing desk make me focus more. Ask others to help pick up kids or drop off so you can have solid 6,7 hours working and refocusing. I find it hard to juggle between kids and job as well.
On the "should I tell my boss" note, I would do that after trying everything else and ask whether it is possible to take temporary 1 week off without pay to get yourself back on track. Since you barely know your boss, I think you should not focus on how it affects your work yet and just explain how it affects your family everybody has family so I think your boss would resonate.
I like to look at it this way, you are hired because you have the skill and proved to be better than other candidates and the company took time and effort to find you, I trust that they will want to work with you through this instead of abandoning you.
Last but not least, I find that for every job, you feel a little loss at first but to truly integrate and feel like you are part of the team is to start having some wins (big or small) so you should look around, find taks that you can accomplish or want to learn/work on and actively request to do those. It will help boosting your confident and make working more fun imo.
On the "should I tell my boss" note, I would do that after trying everything else and ask whether it is possible to take temporary 1 week off without pay to get yourself back on track. Since you barely know your boss, I think you should not focus on how it affects your work yet and just explain how it affects your family everybody has family so I think your boss would resonate.
I like to look at it this way, you are hired because you have the skill and proved to be better than other candidates and the company took time and effort to find you, I trust that they will want to work with you through this instead of abandoning you.
Last but not least, I find that for every job, you feel a little loss at first but to truly integrate and feel like you are part of the team is to start having some wins (big or small) so you should look around, find taks that you can accomplish or want to learn/work on and actively request to do those. It will help boosting your confident and make working more fun imo.
Burnout during probationary period is a red flag. I suggest reevaluating your workplace decision.
I think the causes are often outside the job - young kids, marriage.
Isn't this what probationary period is for? To know if you like this job and leave if not.
It doesn't sound like OPs current burn out is specific to this one job. Most people don't wake up on day 1 of burnout and say "oh man I'm burned out now." In my experience burnout creeps up over years and you only realize it when you can no longer cope.
If they leave this job for a new one they'll still be burned out, just like the last two times in the past year they left their job for a new one.
My advice is the same as other commenters, OP should seek professional help with therapy. There are other things that can help like meditation, but in my experience there's no quick fix.
If they leave this job for a new one they'll still be burned out, just like the last two times in the past year they left their job for a new one.
My advice is the same as other commenters, OP should seek professional help with therapy. There are other things that can help like meditation, but in my experience there's no quick fix.
> Most people don't wake up on day 1 of burnout and say "oh man I'm burned out now."
Sometimes it's not even about job. I have ALL the classical symptoms of burnout, but I still love both my jobs (full time and part time after hours) and would like to continue them, but I just can't gather enough focus to be as productive for the whole day. Fortunately, some light meds, workout and fresh air is starting to help.
Sometimes it's not even about job. I have ALL the classical symptoms of burnout, but I still love both my jobs (full time and part time after hours) and would like to continue them, but I just can't gather enough focus to be as productive for the whole day. Fortunately, some light meds, workout and fresh air is starting to help.
100%, it wasn’t the job that made me burn out it’s just an additional factor. I think the straw that broke the camels back was an argument with my partner.
I do love the job, in some ways it’s a dream job, but I just don’t have the energy to learn it or concentrate on it.
More exercise and an improved diet would likely help a lot.
You may struggle for time to exercise from the sound of it, but even a little bit helps.
You may struggle for time to exercise from the sound of it, but even a little bit helps.
+1 this, as it also helps to sleep better and that makes a huge difference.
It's important to be consistent because it takes some time to start noticing the benefits.
Also, create a bed routine and stick to it. For example, taking a hot shower, brushing teeth and then going to bed right after help to slow down a racing mind.
Reading a book before bed as well, I'm always impressed how much I can read and how slow the time goes by and I'm already sleepy.
It's important to be consistent because it takes some time to start noticing the benefits.
Also, create a bed routine and stick to it. For example, taking a hot shower, brushing teeth and then going to bed right after help to slow down a racing mind.
Reading a book before bed as well, I'm always impressed how much I can read and how slow the time goes by and I'm already sleepy.
I can confirm that exercise and fresh air helps. As for sleep - do not oversleep. I had enough good sleep already, so sleeping more than 8h is counterproductive. If you feel sleepy, absolutely positively commit to two full days of doing nothing (no phone, no "doing chores" or tidying your home) and sleep whenever you feel like it. After this, try to create a routine, where you get 8h of sleep, but don't snooze. When alarm rings, just get up, or at least sit for max 5 min, don't lay on bed.
"Reading a book before bed as well" - doesn't help everyone, I get too excited with story and have trouble with stopping reading when the time comes.
"Reading a book before bed as well" - doesn't help everyone, I get too excited with story and have trouble with stopping reading when the time comes.
I like the job, it’s just I’m lacking energy and mental capacity to tackle it.
I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular opinion, but welcome to life? The stories of people burning out and needing time off or sabbaticals seems so privileged. My dad was in sales for 60 years. Did he experience struggles in life (both work and home)? Sure, we all do. Did he ever throw in the towel and stop being productive? No, he grit his teeth and he worked through it.
There's always going to be times in your career that you are more or less productive. Some times everything is clicking and you feel like you're firing on all cylinders. Other times things suck and you just have to show up and do your best. I've been through that pattern so many times in my career, I can't even count.
There's always going to be times in your career that you are more or less productive. Some times everything is clicking and you feel like you're firing on all cylinders. Other times things suck and you just have to show up and do your best. I've been through that pattern so many times in my career, I can't even count.
It depends on what work you're doing. I'm burnt out right now and working retail, which is fine to push through. Am I particularly fulfilled? No, but like you, I was raised by people with the philosophy of: "A group for people who hate their jobs? Yeah, it's called the bar. We meet on Friday nights." But retail is a job I can do with next to no mental involvement. Autopilot will work. Sales is similar provided the product changes in manageable ways.
For work where your value is your thoughts and ideas, this is less possible. The job I left was in communications. I couldn't come up with good, pithy marketing or slogans when I had no free mental energy, and when it reached the point that I realized the org and I had major ideological differences, it was even more difficult because trying to force my brain to help expand the reach of an organization I thought was bad just wouldn't work. Some positions require a certain amount of buy-in to do.
For work where your value is your thoughts and ideas, this is less possible. The job I left was in communications. I couldn't come up with good, pithy marketing or slogans when I had no free mental energy, and when it reached the point that I realized the org and I had major ideological differences, it was even more difficult because trying to force my brain to help expand the reach of an organization I thought was bad just wouldn't work. Some positions require a certain amount of buy-in to do.
Just because that's the way it was/is doesn't mean it's the way it must be. Why shouldn't we strive for a better environment/perks if they're attainable?
Very much agreed. I also take issue with the 'received wisdom' that eking out productivity from people at any cost to their physical or mental health is actually producing more benefit over the long term, it seems more likely to me that it's just externalising the increased societal/healthcare/other costs for short term benefit
> stories of people burning out and needing time off or sabbaticals seems so privileged
> he grit his teeth and he worked through it
No, it's the contrary! Having the ability to "grit your teeth" comes from a place of emotional health.
When people are depressed or burnout the "muscle" to "grit your teeth" is not available.
> he grit his teeth and he worked through it
No, it's the contrary! Having the ability to "grit your teeth" comes from a place of emotional health.
When people are depressed or burnout the "muscle" to "grit your teeth" is not available.
> Other times things suck and you just have to show up and do your best
Yeah, and being in the middle of a burnout means your best is doing pretty much nothing (depends a bit on the job). Plus, by trying, you're potentially prolonging that period of uselessness
Yeah, and being in the middle of a burnout means your best is doing pretty much nothing (depends a bit on the job). Plus, by trying, you're potentially prolonging that period of uselessness
Being able to grit your teeth and push through is dependent on your psychological state. Imagine walking through a desert. You keep walking until you drop. At the point you drop you have reached the limit of what your body is physiologically capable of. In same way a good proportion of burnout isn't some cry for attention, it's the reaching of that absolute biologically inviolable limit.
> home, kids, marriage, etc
That is pretty vague. Are you home less? More stressed and arguing? Sounds like you need to talk to your spouse and go over what is going on - they should be accepting of the situation and maybe cut you some slack? Get a baby sitter and spend time with them. I know I take responsibilities very seriously and get stressed when my new boss really doesn't expect too much from the new guy. Make sure you get some rest and me time. If you're spending lots of time stressed but procrastinating you should ask more questions or work more closely with a buddy. I have the exact same problem though so when you figure out the answer tell me. :)
That is pretty vague. Are you home less? More stressed and arguing? Sounds like you need to talk to your spouse and go over what is going on - they should be accepting of the situation and maybe cut you some slack? Get a baby sitter and spend time with them. I know I take responsibilities very seriously and get stressed when my new boss really doesn't expect too much from the new guy. Make sure you get some rest and me time. If you're spending lots of time stressed but procrastinating you should ask more questions or work more closely with a buddy. I have the exact same problem though so when you figure out the answer tell me. :)
> think I’m burning out (home, kids, marriage, etc)
Do you think you could manage the job if there were no expectations on you outside the job? Could your partner get on board with you needing some time with very few home responsibilities (as it's best for the family in the long run)?
Can you find access to nature? For me, a couple of unstructured hours getting bored in a truly natural setting feels almost like a vacation.
Karezza could help create a generous, non-transactional vibe at home and help you maintain creative energy.
Best wishes as you navigate this.
Do you think you could manage the job if there were no expectations on you outside the job? Could your partner get on board with you needing some time with very few home responsibilities (as it's best for the family in the long run)?
Can you find access to nature? For me, a couple of unstructured hours getting bored in a truly natural setting feels almost like a vacation.
Karezza could help create a generous, non-transactional vibe at home and help you maintain creative energy.
Best wishes as you navigate this.
Like others said - find a therapist. See if your work has a mental health plan, like modernhealth or it's ilk.
It takes some time to find the right therapist and it can be hard to make time in the routine to see one. The good thing is that therapy can be done online. (it's not idea, but during the pandemic it became clear that it can be effective).
Don't wait, start somewhere. The therapist can help you distill what changes you can make in your life to get to a better place.
Don't wait, start somewhere. The therapist can help you distill what changes you can make in your life to get to a better place.
Had this happen at company that had unlimited wellness leave from day one and made a big deal about looking after people and still got dealt with ruthlessly.
Do not tell your boss. Your boss is boss your friend. You have a business arrangement. Find a way to hold up your end of the arrangement that still leaves you breathing and with energy at the end of the day.
You are already fired. Begin your search for a new, more satisfying job NOW.
It may the the stress and effort of moving into a new company/team after the comfort of a long term job.
If so, you should probably keep at it. Baby steps and try to find ways to relax in the evenings and weekends.
If so, you should probably keep at it. Baby steps and try to find ways to relax in the evenings and weekends.
Do you have short term disability? You can get a doctor’s note that will excuse you from work.
Check this out:
https://youtu.be/4oiRLeaxaoI
#notlegaladvice
Check this out:
https://youtu.be/4oiRLeaxaoI
#notlegaladvice
Be careful with this approach during probationary period.
> I’m not sure if to tell my boss, tell the company or how to deal with it, because I can’t afford to loose this job with a family to support.
Looking at this from another angle, you cannot afford to keep this job because you have a family to support. A burnt-out parent is not helpful to their family. You need your energy to truly support them, and if this job is burning you out, then it is not working.
So yes - tell your boss. Tell your company. Either they will work with you and fix the problem, or they won't and you need to find something else. Either way, you are acting on a problem instead of stagnating in burnout. The short-term pain of finding new work is better than the long-term pain of being a burnt-out parent.
Looking at this from another angle, you cannot afford to keep this job because you have a family to support. A burnt-out parent is not helpful to their family. You need your energy to truly support them, and if this job is burning you out, then it is not working.
So yes - tell your boss. Tell your company. Either they will work with you and fix the problem, or they won't and you need to find something else. Either way, you are acting on a problem instead of stagnating in burnout. The short-term pain of finding new work is better than the long-term pain of being a burnt-out parent.
The accuracy of this answer depends heavily on the size of OP's emergency fund.
Telling employer is like self painting a target on ones back. The OP needs to find ways to buy time and heal. Im starting to get frustrated with how the industry is dealing with problems it creates and that is to discard anyone who is momentarily down. Burnout is a problem most of us face in IT and yet nobody talks about an official solution. Perhaps unionization would eventually solve this problem.
A burnt-out parent with an income may be more helpful to their family than a happier parent without one, depending on other factors.
I went through a similar period in my latest role. On the other side of it I’m wondering if it’s normal to be overwhelmed in the first 6 months. Leaning towards it being very likely so.
- please talk to someone you trust
- talk to Doctor, seek professional help
- workout, jogging or hiking, etc..
- pick up a personal interests, reading, etc..
I’m working on this, I’ve found a therapist who I hope can help me get some clarity.
[deleted]
Can you tell us more about other aspects of your life that is causing difficulty?
Also does the new job offer 9 to 5 schedule?
if you got small savings, take some time off. if not, suck it up bro you got a fam haha. maybe start talking about it with your wife which could understand you more and give you better perspectives other than strangers in the internet.
> I’m not sure if to tell my boss, tell the company
Let's be honest here. You know the right thing to do is to tell your boss / company.
As someone who has sat on the employer side of the table, I can tell you that there's nothing that pisses off an employer more than an employee that tries to hide things, and then, by the time it becomes known, its too late. Its always better to be proactive and resolve a problem before it becomes a PROBLEM.
Speaking frankly for a moment, do you honestly think your employer will be happy if you say nothing during your probation period and then you start claiming sick leave and vacation days on Day One ?
Honestly, the best thing is to be grown-up about it and talk to your employer. Your employer will appreciate it. You will feel less stressed out about it. Win-Win.
Let's be honest here. You know the right thing to do is to tell your boss / company.
As someone who has sat on the employer side of the table, I can tell you that there's nothing that pisses off an employer more than an employee that tries to hide things, and then, by the time it becomes known, its too late. Its always better to be proactive and resolve a problem before it becomes a PROBLEM.
Speaking frankly for a moment, do you honestly think your employer will be happy if you say nothing during your probation period and then you start claiming sick leave and vacation days on Day One ?
Honestly, the best thing is to be grown-up about it and talk to your employer. Your employer will appreciate it. You will feel less stressed out about it. Win-Win.
I’ve been on both side of the table and I understand the reluctance. It’s a way for employees to retain semblance of control even though it could appear misguided. Truth is, by the time the employee is ready to move on, it’s already too late 90 percent of the time.
The op wants to make sure he or she maximizes probability of succeeding at this company and frankly you don’t do that by announcing to your boss you are suffering burnout a few months into the job unless you have strong internal network and leverage.
The op wants to make sure he or she maximizes probability of succeeding at this company and frankly you don’t do that by announcing to your boss you are suffering burnout a few months into the job unless you have strong internal network and leverage.
I'm an employer and agree with the sibling comments that this is terrible advice. Your employer isn't your family or friend and, especially during the probationary period, you need to muster up the performance needed to pass that hurdle. I'm sorry that you're struggling with burnout, but if your remaining period is a few more months, find the grit to make it through that, then you can tell your employer about the struggle and any additional support you need.
Any employer that has an 8 month long probationary period is probably not going to be the type to suddenly be super-supportive if you say you're burned out halfway through it.
I'm assuming that if you could afford being out of work for 6 months to recover from burnout, you'd have mentioned or executed that, so that best course of action is presumably off the table.
Here is a time to be consciously selfish on behalf of yourself and your family and, to me, that means hiding the problem as best you can from your employer. (Feel free to get whatever support you can from other sources, just not the job.)
Any employer that has an 8 month long probationary period is probably not going to be the type to suddenly be super-supportive if you say you're burned out halfway through it.
I'm assuming that if you could afford being out of work for 6 months to recover from burnout, you'd have mentioned or executed that, so that best course of action is presumably off the table.
Here is a time to be consciously selfish on behalf of yourself and your family and, to me, that means hiding the problem as best you can from your employer. (Feel free to get whatever support you can from other sources, just not the job.)
OP don't listen to this unless you care more about your employer than yourself.
Yeah, like employers don’t hide things? This is a not a good advice for a human being with a family who is going through an industry created problem and does not have the funds to take a break. For burnout a break is needed but many employers would be so inconvenienced that they’d easily choose discarding that employee, even if the break is not paid.
If you're frustrated with employees for not communicating with you, is that because communication is solely their responsibility?
Whether you like it or not, communication, and the lack thereof, is dependent on both parties.
If someone is hiding something from you, then they are failing to communicate; but that isn't the whole picture. What role do you play in this lack of communication? Are you giving them opportunities to communicate with you? Are they afraid of how you might react? Could you do anything to make them more comfortable?
Considering you have had this happen more than once, it would be in your best interest to change something about the way you communicate in this context. You can be proactive by telling all your employees how you would react to this hypothetical situation. If your reaction is going to be positive, then they won't have any reason to hide from you, but only if they know that.
And if your reaction is going to be negative, then you are both headed to a place neither of you wants to go. Can you steer the ship in a more positive direction? Can you at least promise to try?
You're expecting a lot of initiative from someone who is already burnt out and afraid of getting fired. Whether or not you created this dynamic doesn't matter: you are in the best position to resolve the problem. After all, that's literally your job.
Whether you like it or not, communication, and the lack thereof, is dependent on both parties.
If someone is hiding something from you, then they are failing to communicate; but that isn't the whole picture. What role do you play in this lack of communication? Are you giving them opportunities to communicate with you? Are they afraid of how you might react? Could you do anything to make them more comfortable?
Considering you have had this happen more than once, it would be in your best interest to change something about the way you communicate in this context. You can be proactive by telling all your employees how you would react to this hypothetical situation. If your reaction is going to be positive, then they won't have any reason to hide from you, but only if they know that.
And if your reaction is going to be negative, then you are both headed to a place neither of you wants to go. Can you steer the ship in a more positive direction? Can you at least promise to try?
You're expecting a lot of initiative from someone who is already burnt out and afraid of getting fired. Whether or not you created this dynamic doesn't matter: you are in the best position to resolve the problem. After all, that's literally your job.
> If you're frustrated with employees for not communicating with you, is that because communication is solely their responsibility?
I've only got two words for you: Fuck You.
You don't know me, so how dare you make such insinuations.
TL;DR: I come from the "Treat others how you wish to be treated" school.
This means I am very much conscious that my role is responsible for feeding families and paying mortgages.
I am open and honest about anything that may affect my employees. Good news or bad. It gets propagated without smoke and mirrors.
I pay for all employee's lunches. I am very flexible on things like holiday time.
In return I expect employees to make ample use of my Open Door.
On the RARE occasions that an employee hides things from me (whether personally or related to their work for a client), I find it very upsetting and I take it personally. I go above and beyond for my employees, its not too much to expect the same in reverse.
And YES, I realise not all employers are as generous as me. But it doesn't detract from the fact that holding back information from your employer is not going to help your cause. Harsher employers will no doubt feel less inclined to help you if you held back from them.
I've only got two words for you: Fuck You.
You don't know me, so how dare you make such insinuations.
TL;DR: I come from the "Treat others how you wish to be treated" school.
This means I am very much conscious that my role is responsible for feeding families and paying mortgages.
I am open and honest about anything that may affect my employees. Good news or bad. It gets propagated without smoke and mirrors.
I pay for all employee's lunches. I am very flexible on things like holiday time.
In return I expect employees to make ample use of my Open Door.
On the RARE occasions that an employee hides things from me (whether personally or related to their work for a client), I find it very upsetting and I take it personally. I go above and beyond for my employees, its not too much to expect the same in reverse.
And YES, I realise not all employers are as generous as me. But it doesn't detract from the fact that holding back information from your employer is not going to help your cause. Harsher employers will no doubt feel less inclined to help you if you held back from them.
> I've only got two words for you: Fuck You.
I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
> Fuck You.
> TL;DR: I come from the "Treat others how you wish to be treated" school.
You're welcome to give those statements some reflection. I find hindsight to be really valuable, especially after speaking from a place of emotion.
> I find it very upsetting and I take it personally.
Clearly. And that's your business. You are free to ignore my perspective and advice. Your feelings are real, and I'm not trying to ignore them.
I didn't come here to offend, but I did intend to be direct and assertive with my communication. This social pattern is not new to me, and it isn't specific to you.
Indeed, I don't know you. I can only draw from the limited interaction I have had so far. And so far, that interaction has followed the very same social pattern I came here to deconstruct.
That's the crux of what I'm trying to express here: if I'm an employee, and I don't know my boss is going to react positivity to bad news, I'm very motivated to keep my mouth shut. That sucks for both of us, and me keeping secrets would definitely be wrong; but the morality of the situation isn't going to protect my employment.
You can say all you want that you are generous and forgiving, and that you make plenty of room for open communication; but so far, I find your words hard to believe. In our interaction so far, you have been hostile, emotional, and outright refused to hear my perspective. You had an opportunity to be generous, and you did not take it. I get it: you're upset, and that makes it pretty difficult for anyone in your position. In this specific situation, there isn't a lot of trust being built.
I am not here to tear you down. I am here to criticize you. I hope that you can take a step back and hear my criticism constructively, but that decision is ultimately yours.
> TL;DR: I come from the "Treat others how you wish to be treated" school.
You're welcome to give those statements some reflection. I find hindsight to be really valuable, especially after speaking from a place of emotion.
> I find it very upsetting and I take it personally.
Clearly. And that's your business. You are free to ignore my perspective and advice. Your feelings are real, and I'm not trying to ignore them.
I didn't come here to offend, but I did intend to be direct and assertive with my communication. This social pattern is not new to me, and it isn't specific to you.
Indeed, I don't know you. I can only draw from the limited interaction I have had so far. And so far, that interaction has followed the very same social pattern I came here to deconstruct.
That's the crux of what I'm trying to express here: if I'm an employee, and I don't know my boss is going to react positivity to bad news, I'm very motivated to keep my mouth shut. That sucks for both of us, and me keeping secrets would definitely be wrong; but the morality of the situation isn't going to protect my employment.
You can say all you want that you are generous and forgiving, and that you make plenty of room for open communication; but so far, I find your words hard to believe. In our interaction so far, you have been hostile, emotional, and outright refused to hear my perspective. You had an opportunity to be generous, and you did not take it. I get it: you're upset, and that makes it pretty difficult for anyone in your position. In this specific situation, there isn't a lot of trust being built.
I am not here to tear you down. I am here to criticize you. I hope that you can take a step back and hear my criticism constructively, but that decision is ultimately yours.
> Let's be honest here.
Are you being honest? This advice benefits only the company and it's terrible for the employee.
Are you being honest? This advice benefits only the company and it's terrible for the employee.
I left a long term job about 7 months ago, join another company and very quickly realised I didn’t like the atmosphere so left there for what should have been my dream job, however I’m 4 months in, still in probationary period and think I’m burning out (home, kids, marriage, etc)
I’m not sure if to tell my boss, tell the company or how to deal with it, because I can’t afford to loose this job with a family to support.