Ask HN: Remote Working and Cameras-On
22 comments
I've been remote since around 2017, calls almost daily - maybe twice my lacking video has come up
I deliberately don't have a webcam, my team never uses theirs, so it works out pretty well
I wouldn't do well in an environment where it "mattered", if being on camera became a recurring topic I would certainly leave.
There are more important things to worry about, and if a place makes this significant, their priorities are broken
I would entertain it as a team dynamic, what you describe (and my 'firm' stance attempts to mitigate) is electronic supervision
I'm a professional, if you can't tell by my work that I'm here/active, I'll do it somewhere else.
I deliberately don't have a webcam, my team never uses theirs, so it works out pretty well
I wouldn't do well in an environment where it "mattered", if being on camera became a recurring topic I would certainly leave.
There are more important things to worry about, and if a place makes this significant, their priorities are broken
I would entertain it as a team dynamic, what you describe (and my 'firm' stance attempts to mitigate) is electronic supervision
I'm a professional, if you can't tell by my work that I'm here/active, I'll do it somewhere else.
I outright tell team members and managers that my camera will not be on unless I am the focal point of the meeting, i.e. I'm presenting. I also don't generally go into meeting rooms anymore, even if I'm in the office. Instead, I call in from my desk or a "phone booth".
I'm also pretty honest about the reason. I have always had trouble looking "engaged" and it's been an issue in many parts of my life. I always fidgeted or doodled in class, but it's how I learn. During the pandemic, I got used to not having to try so hard to look like I'm paying attention. I'm never going back.
I'm also pretty honest about the reason. I have always had trouble looking "engaged" and it's been an issue in many parts of my life. I always fidgeted or doodled in class, but it's how I learn. During the pandemic, I got used to not having to try so hard to look like I'm paying attention. I'm never going back.
I would never take a job at a place that wants you to be on camera while you're just working. I mean, that's an insane amount of survailance.
On the flipside, I do tend to turn my camera on during meetings. If I'm not at my computer, or the network can't handle it or something like that, then I won't, but if I'm at my computer why wouldn't I? I think you lose a lot of communication if you can't see each other, and honestly, I think that most meetings that don't require video could've just been a short text-chat or maybe even an e-mail instead.
I do think it depends on the type of meeting. I think "information" meetings, like a monthly department is more suited for everyone having their camera off, while meetings where a small number of people actually discuss something are suited for everyone having their camera on. But again, a lot of "information" meetings are frankly better as pre-made videos presentations instead of meetings, especially if there isn't room for discussion or questions anyway.
On the flipside, I do tend to turn my camera on during meetings. If I'm not at my computer, or the network can't handle it or something like that, then I won't, but if I'm at my computer why wouldn't I? I think you lose a lot of communication if you can't see each other, and honestly, I think that most meetings that don't require video could've just been a short text-chat or maybe even an e-mail instead.
I do think it depends on the type of meeting. I think "information" meetings, like a monthly department is more suited for everyone having their camera off, while meetings where a small number of people actually discuss something are suited for everyone having their camera on. But again, a lot of "information" meetings are frankly better as pre-made videos presentations instead of meetings, especially if there isn't room for discussion or questions anyway.
I have no idea where this comes from. I've been working for a company that primarily puts me on long-term consulting contracts, which has me working for many different customers. Obviously, this needs to largely be remote, as I'm not going to move to a different city every year to accommodate some new customer's headquarters, but thanks to the last few years, most of these teams have been fully-remote teams anyway, and they have all been partially remote if not fully.
Other than the initial intro meeting, not only do I never have my camera on, but neither does anyone else usually. Meetings typically have three flavors. One, a periodic "standup" type meeting that involves going over an issue board. Two, an engineering peer review of some sort, that will involve going over a diagram or piece of code or a functionality demo. Three, some sort of swarm or pair programming type thing where you're either collaborating on creating something or troubleshooting an issue. In all of those cases, in order to actually do what you're trying to accomplish with the meeting, somebody needs to be screensharing.
But if there's a screen we should all be focusing on anyway, what would be the point of also adding N superfluous video streams to get distracted by?
Add to that the fact that, at least early in the pandemic, my ISP seemed to throttle me if I went over some unwritten weekly data usage cap I was a lot more likely to hit if I was adding in 8-15 HD video streams instead of just one.
This is different for very small free-form discussion meetings where a limited group of people is trying to reach a decision without having something to present. Maybe in that case seeing each other is warranted and helpful, but that is a very small subset of meetings. I don't see how it can possibly ever be justified to require cameras on all the time in all meetings.
Other than the initial intro meeting, not only do I never have my camera on, but neither does anyone else usually. Meetings typically have three flavors. One, a periodic "standup" type meeting that involves going over an issue board. Two, an engineering peer review of some sort, that will involve going over a diagram or piece of code or a functionality demo. Three, some sort of swarm or pair programming type thing where you're either collaborating on creating something or troubleshooting an issue. In all of those cases, in order to actually do what you're trying to accomplish with the meeting, somebody needs to be screensharing.
But if there's a screen we should all be focusing on anyway, what would be the point of also adding N superfluous video streams to get distracted by?
Add to that the fact that, at least early in the pandemic, my ISP seemed to throttle me if I went over some unwritten weekly data usage cap I was a lot more likely to hit if I was adding in 8-15 HD video streams instead of just one.
This is different for very small free-form discussion meetings where a limited group of people is trying to reach a decision without having something to present. Maybe in that case seeing each other is warranted and helpful, but that is a very small subset of meetings. I don't see how it can possibly ever be justified to require cameras on all the time in all meetings.
For many years, corporations existed with multi-office conferencing and no real-time camera link. Don't take the bait; share your screen (making certain that it is shareworthy) as a first principle.
A great excuse is that you have family members that can sometimes be seen behind you, like minor children, who do not agree to be on camera.
I find being on camera extremely distracting, as I am putting so much mental energy into my camera presence that it detracts from the subject at hand, so I leave mine off with few exceptions (interviewing candidates, meeting new team members, etc.). I am quite fidgety too, and don't want to distract my teammates with my idle interactions with stuff on my desk.
Not weird or overprotective. “I’d rather not be on camera unless I’m presenting.” is an entirely reasonable position to take.
I don't understand the resistance. You are in a meeting with me. If we were meeting face to face, would you tell me to look the other way ? I get it that sometimes when working remotely, you may not want ppl to see you because may be bad hair day, you were casual with your outfit etc but if you resist EVERY time, that is not a good thing. It makes one wonder if you are hiding something.
However, if this is something you want to do at times, not a problem. Just announce early in the meeting "Hey I am not in a good position to be on camera. Hope that's ok". If you do this sometimes and you get flak everytime, then it may be time for you to look for a better workplace.
However, if this is something you want to do at times, not a problem. Just announce early in the meeting "Hey I am not in a good position to be on camera. Hope that's ok". If you do this sometimes and you get flak everytime, then it may be time for you to look for a better workplace.
If I'm on a meeting with you I can see where you're looking at and what you're doing with your hands. Also I know that you are not recording me and can replay me again and again. Also you are not peeking in my house.
Camera-on is simply very close to a black-mirror cringe-zone where I don't want to be.
Camera-on is simply very close to a black-mirror cringe-zone where I don't want to be.
It is a surveillance device so you are right to be "overprotective". People who own and use devices with cameras pointed at them all day seem to not realize.
I have worked remotely since 2018 and camera-on is certainly the only way to go. Sure, large meetings or recorded sessions mine gets turned off. Cameras on for meeting where you are actually involved is an absolute necessity for trying to make the human connection.
I don’t fully understand the “I won’t turn my camera on” insistence. This is akin to someone in-office bringing a curtain into a conference room saying “don’t look at me”.
I don’t fully understand the “I won’t turn my camera on” insistence. This is akin to someone in-office bringing a curtain into a conference room saying “don’t look at me”.
> I don’t fully understand the “I won’t turn my camera on” insistence.
It might help to consider that many of the people insisting on this don't understand why others find it weird that they insist. Personally, I don't understand the "You need to let me watch you" insistence.
(If you don't like the phrasing of, "You need to let me watch you" consider, at least, that might be how the insistence is perceived.)
It might help to consider that many of the people insisting on this don't understand why others find it weird that they insist. Personally, I don't understand the "You need to let me watch you" insistence.
(If you don't like the phrasing of, "You need to let me watch you" consider, at least, that might be how the insistence is perceived.)
I hate seeing people in camera. I don't want to know if you are deaf or have four eyes. I don't want to know your disability.
I'm here to offer to information for anyone. If you're not able to hear me, I'll adjust. When I know about your disability I cater to you which reduces our growth.
I wish more people realize that cameras affect vulnerable populations.
I'm here to offer to information for anyone. If you're not able to hear me, I'll adjust. When I know about your disability I cater to you which reduces our growth.
I wish more people realize that cameras affect vulnerable populations.
On or off camera is a cultural norm. I've seen teams that are on-camera all day in a team meeting which also acts as an indicator that they're available, and the people loved it. I've also worked with teams that never met except on chat. This team sat in the same area, but never seemed to talk, but you could see thousands of messages in Jira for each ticket they were working on.
Both scenarios worked because the norm was driven by the team. Where these norms become an imposition is when they're instituted from the top down.
Both scenarios worked because the norm was driven by the team. Where these norms become an imposition is when they're instituted from the top down.
My camera is on for meetings, and occasionally over lunch/tea/breaks if I'm feeling social.
(for real meetings. over 20 participants and I'll camera nope as well)
(for real meetings. over 20 participants and I'll camera nope as well)
Always camera on is far worse than working in person in a cube, IMO. But, during most meetings, camera-on is a reasonable ask. As in, it's fine if that's the norm, allowing for occasional exceptions.
Edit: it is unfortunate though that you'll inevitably be judged for your room/home, etc. This is one reason I prefer in-person work; if my home is noisy or disheveled, nobody is the wiser.
Edit: it is unfortunate though that you'll inevitably be judged for your room/home, etc. This is one reason I prefer in-person work; if my home is noisy or disheveled, nobody is the wiser.
We are cameras on preferred but if you have a reason not to or don't feel like it that day it isn't a big deal. We find cameras help with keeping people engaged in the meeting as well as help with body language.
"Sorry, it's broken." They can't prove otherwise.
No, not weird. IMHO there is occasionally a place for having the camera on, but if that doesn't work for someone in that moment then so be it.
> Am I weird or overprotective with this? How do you feel about the whole camera-on issue?
A requirement for camera always-on just show that the corporation don't trust you. I would never even consider working there.
I have a decent cam mounted above my monitor, good lightning, and an interesting background behind me, designed for online meetings. When I turn the cam on, people who see me for the first time will not be distracted by dirty laundry or a messed up living room, or some greenish or bluish reflection from the walls (or some Elon Muskish red head floating in a dark void). I will look OK (or at least not worse than I do in real life), and the scenery will be better than average. This makes it OK for me to turn on the camera in the first place.
For 1x1 meetings and meetings with just a few people, I find camera on to be effective. Body-language is important to understand the participants perspective of the conversation.
For meetings with many people, I usually keep my cam off, or on only when I speak. For example; in online town-halls and other long meetings with 20+ people, I don't feel a need to communicate trough my body-language how inaccurate some statements sound, or how boring some presenters feel. It also give me an opportunity to keep the sound on, while doing something useful.
A requirement for camera always-on just show that the corporation don't trust you. I would never even consider working there.
I have a decent cam mounted above my monitor, good lightning, and an interesting background behind me, designed for online meetings. When I turn the cam on, people who see me for the first time will not be distracted by dirty laundry or a messed up living room, or some greenish or bluish reflection from the walls (or some Elon Muskish red head floating in a dark void). I will look OK (or at least not worse than I do in real life), and the scenery will be better than average. This makes it OK for me to turn on the camera in the first place.
For 1x1 meetings and meetings with just a few people, I find camera on to be effective. Body-language is important to understand the participants perspective of the conversation.
For meetings with many people, I usually keep my cam off, or on only when I speak. For example; in online town-halls and other long meetings with 20+ people, I don't feel a need to communicate trough my body-language how inaccurate some statements sound, or how boring some presenters feel. It also give me an opportunity to keep the sound on, while doing something useful.
have you tried virtual avatar?
it's always a good ice breaker for me.
VSeeFace for Windows. Hallway Tiles for Mac.
VSeeFace for Windows. Hallway Tiles for Mac.
In some cases though I just don't feel like sharing my camera and I have to fend off such requests. And that does not always go very well.
Am I weird or overprotective with this? How do you feel about the whole camera-on issue?
PS: In the past I've quit an interview right after I was told that there's an always-camera-on policy for remote workers (i.e. you'd have to have a camera on for the full 8 hours you'd work for them). Dunno - it sounded like sh1t from Black Mirror and it gave off a lot of red flags IMO. This present situation kind-of reminded me of that weirdness (well it's not the only one but show me a workplace that gets better -as in more relaxed and libertarian- with time and I'll buy you a beer).