Signs that you’re in a toxic work situation
15 comments
Indeed - don't ignore warning signs -- sound advice.
Based on personal experience, I'd add - treat all human based organizations as what they are, Bad. The Badness is just a matter of degree. All good investors know that all stocks are bad - this is no different. They're bad because people are not 'good' (as we would all like to make ourselves out to be), but rather we're inherently bad, flawed, sinful to some degree - trending hopefully in a more perfected direction but often a more debased one. Add to that the stress of pride, self preservation, greed, deceit, murder (of character), in day-to-day operations - and 'good' organizations show their true color - bad.
Other musings:
1. Liars know they lie particularly when you're unsuspecting. You can lose years and years of your career with those that cloak bad values. Check trusted references of the execs you will work with and for. These values will manifest themselves in real consequences, it's just a matter of time.
2. Check the REAL specific behavioral norms / values of the organization. Is there a related specific Code of Honor ("I never abandon a teammate in need")? If not, why not? Can all players including the execs be held accountable to it or do they just want it to apply to you? Know the vast majority of stated values are virtue signaling BS - Marketing. Get your head straight - and do not fall for it.
3. If their core REAL values are incompatible with your own, and you can afford to, Pass.
4. Never fall in love with your organization - it's not a person, but rather a composite of flawed humanity. A beast of sorts. It will generally consume your extra good deeds, good ideas, extra work and strangely enough, you may even be hated for it.
5. Do not rely on others to 'do the right thing'. The players and values within the beast change. Get a lawyer involved particularly with equity and non-competes etc. Do not fear offending by having a lawyer involved. Do it in a direct, aboveboard, and civil manner. It's not what you're worth, it's what you negotiate for AND have in writing.
6. Cultivate options. All negotiations are determined by the parties' BATNA (Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement)...i.e. your options - have some.
7. And yes, make the best of your own situation with eyes wide open.
Based on personal experience, I'd add - treat all human based organizations as what they are, Bad. The Badness is just a matter of degree. All good investors know that all stocks are bad - this is no different. They're bad because people are not 'good' (as we would all like to make ourselves out to be), but rather we're inherently bad, flawed, sinful to some degree - trending hopefully in a more perfected direction but often a more debased one. Add to that the stress of pride, self preservation, greed, deceit, murder (of character), in day-to-day operations - and 'good' organizations show their true color - bad.
Other musings:
1. Liars know they lie particularly when you're unsuspecting. You can lose years and years of your career with those that cloak bad values. Check trusted references of the execs you will work with and for. These values will manifest themselves in real consequences, it's just a matter of time.
2. Check the REAL specific behavioral norms / values of the organization. Is there a related specific Code of Honor ("I never abandon a teammate in need")? If not, why not? Can all players including the execs be held accountable to it or do they just want it to apply to you? Know the vast majority of stated values are virtue signaling BS - Marketing. Get your head straight - and do not fall for it.
3. If their core REAL values are incompatible with your own, and you can afford to, Pass.
4. Never fall in love with your organization - it's not a person, but rather a composite of flawed humanity. A beast of sorts. It will generally consume your extra good deeds, good ideas, extra work and strangely enough, you may even be hated for it.
5. Do not rely on others to 'do the right thing'. The players and values within the beast change. Get a lawyer involved particularly with equity and non-competes etc. Do not fear offending by having a lawyer involved. Do it in a direct, aboveboard, and civil manner. It's not what you're worth, it's what you negotiate for AND have in writing.
6. Cultivate options. All negotiations are determined by the parties' BATNA (Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement)...i.e. your options - have some.
7. And yes, make the best of your own situation with eyes wide open.
I worked for a company, that in retrospect, was Evil. While working there, you couldn’t tell at all. Everything seemed decent, the product wasn’t too bad. Then, one day you get let go for reasons they can’t tell you. They literally do all the things HR told you they would never do, give you a fistful of money to ignore the contract you each signed.
Once you stop and realize it, they break employment and immigration laws all over the place. Meanwhile, you’re in a foreign country, trying to find a new job as quickly as possible. Then you happen to run into users who loath the product you used to work on during interviews and you find out the company you worked for is universally hated.
I wouldn’t call the people in the company toxic, but the company itself is toxic. Being let go was probably the best thing that ever happened to me, but damn. Never again.
Once you stop and realize it, they break employment and immigration laws all over the place. Meanwhile, you’re in a foreign country, trying to find a new job as quickly as possible. Then you happen to run into users who loath the product you used to work on during interviews and you find out the company you worked for is universally hated.
I wouldn’t call the people in the company toxic, but the company itself is toxic. Being let go was probably the best thing that ever happened to me, but damn. Never again.
This is just GPT3 right?
At the risk of appearing somewhat callous, it has the intellectual substance of your typical tabloid pablum and there's nothing of any real concrete actionable value here. This post failed at farming even a marginal number of HN points so I'm really not sure what the point was.
Several similar cases since the last week. The only possible benefit could be fishing for personal data, or testing the product against us to see if it can fake to be a human.
My best bet would be several people playing with the new toy. Trolling 3.0. The other post from the same account sound identically "robotish".
My best bet would be several people playing with the new toy. Trolling 3.0. The other post from the same account sound identically "robotish".
This is still better that bulk of one-sentence-per-paragraph garbage that is posted on LinkedIn by various self-proclaimed "thought leaders".
clearly, same opinion
> the warnings signs
Sounds like it yeah.
Sounds like it yeah.
There are many more bad managers than good manager. I would say it’s the biggest risk of finding a new job.
Lols
People who actually understand the system are punished with extraordinary pressure of keeping things running with little support.
Toxic business situation in your case not a run of the mill “work” situation
All your coworkers go to a chiropractor.
6 managers in 2 years
Lol, looks like I found my space to vent ;)
Here are four things you should look for when joining a company: - have you vetted your boss and colleagues - I usually ask my boss questions to make sure that he isn’t a bad guy. You’re not the only one being interviewed, you should be interviewing him too. - how long have your future colleagues been at the company - the toxic company I worked at had a cutthroat boss who fired easily. He seemed to enjoy making people work like crazy and screwing them over some way some how. Even though I was the cofounder, I lost some of my shares. Thankfully, I hired a lawyer to avoid losing the rest. - How is your boss treating you? There’s no excuse to be treated poorly. Because I was so naive, I thought it was ok for the CEO to yell at me and go through my emails. After I left, he continued to do the same to other employees. In fact there was an article written about how bad it was working there. - Are your colleagues collaborative? I’ve worked at companies where my colleagues loved to talk bad behind peoples backs. It’s not cool.
There’s no perfect working environment. Every job has its perks and downsides. Sometimes you have no choice but to stay and try to make the most of it. I decided to leave, but I was able to do that because I was young and I had a great education that opens a lot of doors. Today, I work for a fortune 100 company and I’m doing well.
Don’t like the toxic company get to you. If you can leave, leave. It’s not worth the psychological abuse that you will go through. I felt like I was gaslighted and it took me years of therapy to get through it.
Don’t ignore the warnings signs.