Dancing is stupid(stan.bar)
stan.bar
Dancing is stupid
https://stan.bar/dancing-is-stupid/
133 comments
> And don’t get me started on lindy hop vs west coast swing.
The sad thing is that (for the most part) I don't think the westies really hate on the lindy hoppers much. You can see, admittedly older, clips[1] of dancers throwing in a bit of lindy, balboa, and shag in top level comps. Of course, this is Sylvia Sykes, so maybe that's an exception.
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1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psOWt0oyx9k
The sad thing is that (for the most part) I don't think the westies really hate on the lindy hoppers much. You can see, admittedly older, clips[1] of dancers throwing in a bit of lindy, balboa, and shag in top level comps. Of course, this is Sylvia Sykes, so maybe that's an exception.
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1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psOWt0oyx9k
> Couples splitting up because one is heavily more invested in dancing than the other is a common occurence.
This unnerves me. My partner could and would dance all day, anywhere, any scenario. I have to be unbelievably drunk to come close to anything resembling dancing. Any event we go to together that involves dancing is intensely emotionally debilitating to me for that reason, and sometimes I worry that it's a basal insurmountable incompatibility between us.
This unnerves me. My partner could and would dance all day, anywhere, any scenario. I have to be unbelievably drunk to come close to anything resembling dancing. Any event we go to together that involves dancing is intensely emotionally debilitating to me for that reason, and sometimes I worry that it's a basal insurmountable incompatibility between us.
> And don’t get me started on lindy hop vs west coast swing.
I'm puzzled where this comes from, since they're entirely different scenes. On a social dance night, or say, a festival, one may find Blue/Balboa/Lindy Hop (and possibly Shag), but hardly Lindy Hop and West Coast Swing, since the music is different.
Edit: Actually, the message that the article sends is exactly what happens - dancers try other dances, then they share how they've integrated them into their dance, or how interesting is anyway to try something different - as opposed to intellectual condescension.
> Couples splitting up because one is heavily more invested in dancing than the other is a common occurence.
There surely are occurrences of this, but I wouldn't describe the phenomenon as common. It implies that a romantic relationship is based entirely on dancing, which I don't think is frequent; also, the vast majority of the dancers leave the scene within 3/4 years.
I've personally lived the "mismatch of interest", but it ended up like any other separate hobby in the context of a couple.
I'm puzzled where this comes from, since they're entirely different scenes. On a social dance night, or say, a festival, one may find Blue/Balboa/Lindy Hop (and possibly Shag), but hardly Lindy Hop and West Coast Swing, since the music is different.
Edit: Actually, the message that the article sends is exactly what happens - dancers try other dances, then they share how they've integrated them into their dance, or how interesting is anyway to try something different - as opposed to intellectual condescension.
> Couples splitting up because one is heavily more invested in dancing than the other is a common occurence.
There surely are occurrences of this, but I wouldn't describe the phenomenon as common. It implies that a romantic relationship is based entirely on dancing, which I don't think is frequent; also, the vast majority of the dancers leave the scene within 3/4 years.
I've personally lived the "mismatch of interest", but it ended up like any other separate hobby in the context of a couple.
I’d add also that this is really only an issue for some women. Most men I’ve met end up leaving the dance scene once they have a partner - if said partner doesn’t dance.
It’s reflected by polling the crowd. There are way more women in relationships out dancing than there are men out dancing in relationships. Single men dominate the numbers when it comes to dancing.
This is why I don’t really recommend it to most men as a way to meet women. It’s lopsided numbers and it’s hard to stand out in a good way as a beginner - in most dance scenes anyway. That said, if you have a lot of time to kill and are big on learning new skills… it can pan out but it’s a multi-year endeavor that often doesn’t go anywhere.
It’s reflected by polling the crowd. There are way more women in relationships out dancing than there are men out dancing in relationships. Single men dominate the numbers when it comes to dancing.
This is why I don’t really recommend it to most men as a way to meet women. It’s lopsided numbers and it’s hard to stand out in a good way as a beginner - in most dance scenes anyway. That said, if you have a lot of time to kill and are big on learning new skills… it can pan out but it’s a multi-year endeavor that often doesn’t go anywhere.
I was in a relationship. Had 2 single friends, took a dance class and started dancing. A month later they both had girl friends and stopped dancing.
> If programming is your dance, and you love doing it, then do it professionally, but this is where your dance has taken you.
I wish writing was the author's "dance". Dancing tends to not be the best metaphor for anything in particular. Dancing is just dancing.
I wish writing was the author's "dance". Dancing tends to not be the best metaphor for anything in particular. Dancing is just dancing.
> There is nothing more notable in Socrates than that he found time, when he was an old man, to learn music and dancing, and thought it time well spent. (Michel de Montaigne, Essais)
Albert Camus dancing (Life Magazine): https://coreyrobin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/albert-cam...
Albert Camus dancing (Life Magazine): https://coreyrobin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/albert-cam...
Albert Camus dancing? That's absurd.
As a cave/tech diver I've noticed that intellectuals are often have some of the hardest times in training due to overthinking.
They'll tend to focus on trying to perfect the little details in training and miss the big picture and failed to K.I.S.S. and argue about theory and resist accepting simple rules.
I used to really like watching Deadliest Catch because I grew up in Kodiak and that's a good example of an environment where an intellectual would generally fail pretty badly. You don't need to be particularly clever, you need to understand what is going to kill you (ropes in particular) and to never pick up your feet. It is an environment where you need to be smart enough to follow the rules, and just "dumb" enough not to argue and question them. Embracing shutting up and being dumb is something that intellectuals generally resist identifying as a virtue.
[ And I'd argue that the infestation of contrarianism-for-contrarianisms-sake that infects HN is a larger symptom of that psychological bias -- so many people doing so much work convincing themselves that they're very clever by rejecting all conventional wisdom ]
They'll tend to focus on trying to perfect the little details in training and miss the big picture and failed to K.I.S.S. and argue about theory and resist accepting simple rules.
I used to really like watching Deadliest Catch because I grew up in Kodiak and that's a good example of an environment where an intellectual would generally fail pretty badly. You don't need to be particularly clever, you need to understand what is going to kill you (ropes in particular) and to never pick up your feet. It is an environment where you need to be smart enough to follow the rules, and just "dumb" enough not to argue and question them. Embracing shutting up and being dumb is something that intellectuals generally resist identifying as a virtue.
[ And I'd argue that the infestation of contrarianism-for-contrarianisms-sake that infects HN is a larger symptom of that psychological bias -- so many people doing so much work convincing themselves that they're very clever by rejecting all conventional wisdom ]
I definitely resonate with this description. I need a strong foundation of information and intuition to learn and do things. So, I need to dive into the frequently glossed over mechanics of everything I learn.
It's part of why I tend to prefer learning new things alone. I know I'm going to take a long time, and I know I'm going to do a ton of dumb, small, incremental testing to build my foundation.
But I don't think it's necessarily overthinking. Maybe for the immediate context, but not for any context. I know just "doing what I'm told" will likely work 99% of the time. What I'm interested in is why does it work, how do I raise my confidence for the remaining 1%, and making sure I understand the underlying mechanics of things so I can make good judgement calls when situations arise.
It's part of why I tend to prefer learning new things alone. I know I'm going to take a long time, and I know I'm going to do a ton of dumb, small, incremental testing to build my foundation.
But I don't think it's necessarily overthinking. Maybe for the immediate context, but not for any context. I know just "doing what I'm told" will likely work 99% of the time. What I'm interested in is why does it work, how do I raise my confidence for the remaining 1%, and making sure I understand the underlying mechanics of things so I can make good judgement calls when situations arise.
Less commonly but more dangerously, an excess of overconfidence also makes poor learners—they take action faster than most, but get into trouble due to failure to realize all they have to learn.
That might actually be more common? That's definitely the one that I everyone needs to guard against, since it also strikes as complacency for the intermediate person.
I've been surprised to find myself making multiple similar pivots over the years. A lot of what I dismissed in my younger years as lacking of intellectual merit, I have come around to value much more highly than I ever would have guessed.
It's funny, but dancing in particular has been my greatest fear for as long as I can remember, so I've always done my best to avoid situations where I'd be forced to do it. Not only did I not see the point or appeal, but I deeply dreaded the prospect of going on the dance floor.
As fears go, however, this one is quite innocent, and also fairly simple to face. And how empowering wouldn't it be, to overcome ones biggest obstacle? So not too long ago, when I was invited to a dance class by a group of friends, I decided I'd go, just the one time, as some sort of exposure therapy.
The dance was tango. As I had expected, I was anxious, stressed, and scared through the entire class (although it was very helpful having the excuse that it was my first day). What I did not expect was how fascinating the dance would turn out to be. How beautiful and elegant, yet also technical and structured. I saw our instructors dancing some dead simple improvised steps, and somehow, despite not being planned out at all, they were totally synchronized. There had to be some brain-to-brain communication going on, a sort of body language that I could not yet perceive or understand, but that I knew I wanted to learn.
That was six months ago, and since then I've gone to some sort of tango thing multiple times a week, every week I've been able to. I'm still nervous on my way to a class, and it takes a few dances to warm up and get loose each session, but I'm starting to enjoy it and feel like I'm actually dancing. In the process, I've come to understand more deeply what people mean when they say "there's more to life than X".
It's funny, but dancing in particular has been my greatest fear for as long as I can remember, so I've always done my best to avoid situations where I'd be forced to do it. Not only did I not see the point or appeal, but I deeply dreaded the prospect of going on the dance floor.
As fears go, however, this one is quite innocent, and also fairly simple to face. And how empowering wouldn't it be, to overcome ones biggest obstacle? So not too long ago, when I was invited to a dance class by a group of friends, I decided I'd go, just the one time, as some sort of exposure therapy.
The dance was tango. As I had expected, I was anxious, stressed, and scared through the entire class (although it was very helpful having the excuse that it was my first day). What I did not expect was how fascinating the dance would turn out to be. How beautiful and elegant, yet also technical and structured. I saw our instructors dancing some dead simple improvised steps, and somehow, despite not being planned out at all, they were totally synchronized. There had to be some brain-to-brain communication going on, a sort of body language that I could not yet perceive or understand, but that I knew I wanted to learn.
That was six months ago, and since then I've gone to some sort of tango thing multiple times a week, every week I've been able to. I'm still nervous on my way to a class, and it takes a few dances to warm up and get loose each session, but I'm starting to enjoy it and feel like I'm actually dancing. In the process, I've come to understand more deeply what people mean when they say "there's more to life than X".
[deleted]
Incidentally a helpful dichotomy in this regard is laid out in Nietzsche's first major work: The Birth of Tragedy Out of the Spirit of Music (he was a superb classical philologist by trade and one of the youngest tenured "Classics" professors at the age of 24):
Apollonian/Dionysian [0]
>Dancing forces you to be here and now—connecting you with your and your partner’s body. Dancing is a means of irrational communication. Dancing is a conversation between two people where the means of communication are your bodies.
Personally, I wouldn't focus on partner dance. In my experience those tend to be over-analytical and strict.
It is more approachable to immerse yourself in dancing all by yourself and/or in group dance (more akin to ritualistic dances inducing trance-like states).
[0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian
Apollonian/Dionysian [0]
>Dancing forces you to be here and now—connecting you with your and your partner’s body. Dancing is a means of irrational communication. Dancing is a conversation between two people where the means of communication are your bodies.
Personally, I wouldn't focus on partner dance. In my experience those tend to be over-analytical and strict.
It is more approachable to immerse yourself in dancing all by yourself and/or in group dance (more akin to ritualistic dances inducing trance-like states).
[0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian
>"...laid out in Nietzsche's first major work..."<
Now that you bring it up, does it help? That is, does dancing help you get laid?
Now that you bring it up, does it help? That is, does dancing help you get laid?
Over the past two years I have become quite a competent swing dancer. In order to do this, I've had to practice (of course), but also make friends and build community with people from all different walks of life and professions.
We got to know each other a lot more slowly, some might even say superficially, but these slow burn relationships with more conversation in dance than in words have become some of the deepest and most meaningful friendships in my adult life.
If I could have my time all over again, I would start dancing as early as possible in life.
We got to know each other a lot more slowly, some might even say superficially, but these slow burn relationships with more conversation in dance than in words have become some of the deepest and most meaningful friendships in my adult life.
If I could have my time all over again, I would start dancing as early as possible in life.
It's common for poorly adjusted people to develop a sense of superiority as a defence mechanism.
But what if they're correct D:
Like how EU4 players feel toward Civ players
Like how EU4 players feel toward Civ players
Value judgements can't be absolutely correct or false, they're only a reflection of a subjective value system.
Building a system in which you have value and others are stupid can help you cope.
Building a system in which you have value and others are stupid can help you cope.
>they're only a reflection of a subjective value system.
Damn
https://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=14
Damn
https://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=14
accepting that value systems are subjective doesn't lead to nihilism. you can still discuss ethics, for example based on widespread values
Or perhaps people are different and they find themselves pressured and bullied by “normal” people.
It's ok to be different, but thinking your better is often unhealthy and a symptom of trauma.
My issue is the claim that these people are poorly adjusted.
Perhaps these people are responding to other peoples sense of superiority. These other people don’t get called out because they are “normal” and we assume that normalcy is automatically superior.
Perhaps these people are responding to other peoples sense of superiority. These other people don’t get called out because they are “normal” and we assume that normalcy is automatically superior.
Yes, and it is sad to see people thinking that something as universal as dancing (that literally exist in every culture in some form) is "not for them".
It sadly implies that this person went through bullying and rejection.
It sadly implies that this person went through bullying and rejection.
Why is it so difficult for you to accept that others don't share your taste? I've never been into dancing but decided to take some classes with friends because that sounded fun, and realised that I truly don't like dancing.
It has nothing to do with rejection. This claim that "you poor thing, if you hadn't been rejected you'd see how good this is" sounds really condescending.
It has nothing to do with rejection. This claim that "you poor thing, if you hadn't been rejected you'd see how good this is" sounds really condescending.
What kind of dancing? Seems like not liking music, or not liking sex, or not liking outdoor settings. It's really hard to tell if you just haven't found the one that speaks to you yet. Maybe those two things are actually indistinguishable.
I think it's important to be sensitive here. There are people who don't like sex, and people who don't like outdoor settings either.
Now the age-old question is whether, with enough "opening up", they could. And yes, in many cases with enough therapy they could and would. But in other cases, therapy isn't going to achieve that. But regardless, doing therapy is essentially changing yourself to become a different person. And nobody is under the obligation to do therapy, or to grow or change or open up.
So I think it's important to be able to accept at face value that when someone isn't into something, whether it's dance or sex or the outdoors, they just aren't into it. Leave the door open so they know they're invited on your next hike, but zero pressure.
Now the age-old question is whether, with enough "opening up", they could. And yes, in many cases with enough therapy they could and would. But in other cases, therapy isn't going to achieve that. But regardless, doing therapy is essentially changing yourself to become a different person. And nobody is under the obligation to do therapy, or to grow or change or open up.
So I think it's important to be able to accept at face value that when someone isn't into something, whether it's dance or sex or the outdoors, they just aren't into it. Leave the door open so they know they're invited on your next hike, but zero pressure.
When people say they're not a math person, I don't pressure them to change, but I do recognize how self limiting and reductive they are being.
Everybody gets to make their own choices on what they will and won't enjoy in life, for sure. I'm not the type of person to apply pressure over something like that. But as someone who learned that physical intelligence is something you can grow in my 30s, I do feel it's a bit of a sacred duty to chip away at the same fixed mindset when I see it in other people.
Everybody gets to make their own choices on what they will and won't enjoy in life, for sure. I'm not the type of person to apply pressure over something like that. But as someone who learned that physical intelligence is something you can grow in my 30s, I do feel it's a bit of a sacred duty to chip away at the same fixed mindset when I see it in other people.
There are people who don't gain any enjoyment from music. Or outdoor settings.
You could say the same about religion and a lot of other things. Still, no, thank you.
I don't look down on dancing, but like with everything really people are just different, there's no Tabula Rasa. No amount of trying will make me enjoy dance (believe me I've tried), just as my wife who is a dancer will never consider an afternoon spent reading a sci-fi novel to be the epitome of happiness. Unfortunately dance is something that pops up at parties and other occasions, and it's implied that you're weird if you don't participate.
>I don't look down on dancing, but like with everything really people are just different
>No amount of trying will make me enjoy dance
Dancing is primarily sexual signaling to potential mates and competition. Being effortlessly good at it's indirect proof that you are atleast somewhat good in bed and are in tune enough to engage in a variety of non-verbal communication and phonic based jousting.
>No amount of trying will make me enjoy dance
Dancing is primarily sexual signaling to potential mates and competition. Being effortlessly good at it's indirect proof that you are atleast somewhat good in bed and are in tune enough to engage in a variety of non-verbal communication and phonic based jousting.
You can't change anybody, you can only influence them to change. You can't learn anything from a book that you didn't already know. I don't know how to say it exactly, but I've seen enough people change, and how that happens, to know that you and your wife's tastes may change over time. You don't have to be open to the possibility of you don't want to be, but it does remind me of another phrase: I'm not a math person.
>You can't change anybody, you can only influence them to change.
Everyone and everything influences who we're regardless of their intentions. What is strange is, although you may already be happy and fulfilled, people feel it's their duty to "influence" you to change because their worldview cannot accept you. In their mind they think "you cannot possibly not like this thing that I love." Well dears, it's possible and you should accept that not everyone is like you.
>You can't learn anything from a book that you didn't already know.
Let's start that this very much depends on the kind of book. Putting that aside, literature isn't meant to convey knowledge in first place. Rather literature is meant to convey emotions and imagination.
>but I've seen enough people change
People may change. But that doesn't make right other people to try and force this change.
>You don't have to be open to the possibility of you don't want to be
Sorry but I've hard time understanding this. Do you mean "at least try"? What if they tried and didn't liked it? Do they've to try indefinitely because some people cannot accept the fact that they may not like it?
>I'm not a math person.
Huh! See this is usually said when someone has hard time with math. Which is entirely distinct thing from enjoying math. Have known many people that were good in math but that didn't mean they'll solve math problems in their free time. Similarly people can be good at dance but that doesn't mean they enjoy dancing.
Everyone and everything influences who we're regardless of their intentions. What is strange is, although you may already be happy and fulfilled, people feel it's their duty to "influence" you to change because their worldview cannot accept you. In their mind they think "you cannot possibly not like this thing that I love." Well dears, it's possible and you should accept that not everyone is like you.
>You can't learn anything from a book that you didn't already know.
Let's start that this very much depends on the kind of book. Putting that aside, literature isn't meant to convey knowledge in first place. Rather literature is meant to convey emotions and imagination.
>but I've seen enough people change
People may change. But that doesn't make right other people to try and force this change.
>You don't have to be open to the possibility of you don't want to be
Sorry but I've hard time understanding this. Do you mean "at least try"? What if they tried and didn't liked it? Do they've to try indefinitely because some people cannot accept the fact that they may not like it?
>I'm not a math person.
Huh! See this is usually said when someone has hard time with math. Which is entirely distinct thing from enjoying math. Have known many people that were good in math but that didn't mean they'll solve math problems in their free time. Similarly people can be good at dance but that doesn't mean they enjoy dancing.
I think we discover more than change. You may think that you don't like dancing but then realize that you actually do. But if you've tried several times and don't like it you're unlikely to change. Twin studies show that twins separated at birth end up with the same interests and very similar lives. In one example twins both ended up leading the local volunteer firefighter departments in their respective towns. That's just an anecdote but the statistics show this as well, it's quite remarkable.
Nice article. The commonplace, contemporary understanding of intelligence is hyper reductive, even within the bounds of what we'd consider intellectualism. For instance, I know many people that are quite good at solving problems in a specific scientific domain but who lack almost all appreciation and knowledge of art and literature. It hasn't registered to them as important or requisite for being "intelligent".
In many cases our notion of intelligence is really just "knowledge that supports my income" which is a real shame. In spite of the existence of the internet, which you'd think would drive a neo-renaissance, where the average person takes a healthy interest in almost everything, no such renaissance spirit is to be found in most corners of contemporary life (personally, I think it's because the amount of information available and speed of access has actually proved too overwhelming, letting other incentives and structures (mass entertainment, social media) win our attention instead).
In many cases our notion of intelligence is really just "knowledge that supports my income" which is a real shame. In spite of the existence of the internet, which you'd think would drive a neo-renaissance, where the average person takes a healthy interest in almost everything, no such renaissance spirit is to be found in most corners of contemporary life (personally, I think it's because the amount of information available and speed of access has actually proved too overwhelming, letting other incentives and structures (mass entertainment, social media) win our attention instead).
Great article! Also:
> I’ve never heard of a family being divided because its members dance different styles
Anyone who believes this needs to go watch Strictly Ballroom (1992) with all possible urgency.
I was also somewhat sceptical about dancing until in my early 20s I made the discovery that nightclubs were not necessarily just places where people went to get shitfaced, but that there were places run by and for enthusiasts of the music - that going out and dancing for eight hours straight was not just something you could do but that was incredibly enjoyable as well.
A huge amount of what has been good in my life since then has, one way or another, come from going out and dancing. Amongst (many) other things, I'm confident that I'm a better programmer for it: the usual arguments (blah blah, lowers stress, default mode network) deployed in favour of meditation also apply to dancing. It won't work if you're forced into it, and I don't think it's cool to do so, but that's why people can be so evangelistic about it.
> I’ve never heard of a family being divided because its members dance different styles
Anyone who believes this needs to go watch Strictly Ballroom (1992) with all possible urgency.
I was also somewhat sceptical about dancing until in my early 20s I made the discovery that nightclubs were not necessarily just places where people went to get shitfaced, but that there were places run by and for enthusiasts of the music - that going out and dancing for eight hours straight was not just something you could do but that was incredibly enjoyable as well.
A huge amount of what has been good in my life since then has, one way or another, come from going out and dancing. Amongst (many) other things, I'm confident that I'm a better programmer for it: the usual arguments (blah blah, lowers stress, default mode network) deployed in favour of meditation also apply to dancing. It won't work if you're forced into it, and I don't think it's cool to do so, but that's why people can be so evangelistic about it.
Any advice on where to start for someone who'd like to learn to dance better at nightclubs?
Find a style of music you enjoy listening to, then go to a club that plays it, and start dancing. Keep doing that.
You might find that your taste shifts a bit over time, and that's fine, and it's fine to shop around a bit: the point is to try to find an environment where you can lose yourself in the music. If you're very self-conscious about your dancing then try to find a more underground scene (I started off in industrial/EBM and moved on to psytrance): partly because people are just more serious about the music and less about trying to hook up, partly because even if you're the world's worst dancer it won't matter because people will just assume you're having a great time because you've taken lots of drugs. Be considerate, give people space, and stay hydrated.
Once you've found your groove - once you've found yourself whooping as the beat drops, once you've found that weird moment where the dancefloor moves in unison and dissolved yourself into it, once you've exchanged exhausted happy grins with the person next to you as the lights go up at 7am - then, if you want to, you can start focussing on technique, on learning new tricks and moves, but it doesn't really matter by then. It's not a competitive sport; the point is not to be good at it, the point is to do it.
Drugs are neither necessary nor sufficient.
You might find that your taste shifts a bit over time, and that's fine, and it's fine to shop around a bit: the point is to try to find an environment where you can lose yourself in the music. If you're very self-conscious about your dancing then try to find a more underground scene (I started off in industrial/EBM and moved on to psytrance): partly because people are just more serious about the music and less about trying to hook up, partly because even if you're the world's worst dancer it won't matter because people will just assume you're having a great time because you've taken lots of drugs. Be considerate, give people space, and stay hydrated.
Once you've found your groove - once you've found yourself whooping as the beat drops, once you've found that weird moment where the dancefloor moves in unison and dissolved yourself into it, once you've exchanged exhausted happy grins with the person next to you as the lights go up at 7am - then, if you want to, you can start focussing on technique, on learning new tricks and moves, but it doesn't really matter by then. It's not a competitive sport; the point is not to be good at it, the point is to do it.
Drugs are neither necessary nor sufficient.
Thanks! I actually like the underground music already, just gotta find venues that do it here in Dublin.
Great article, but hard to be internalized by those who could benefit from it the most (me some years ago).
[deleted]
I am reminded of this suddenly https://youtu.be/6ofYNHRcspM
Funny - I went straight to this https://youtu.be/_au0UUHI2aI
For people who don't enjoy dancing. Try playing Beat Saber in VR. I think it's closest thing to dancing I am actually enjoying.
When was a little kid I was picked on a lot, even bullied by my dance "teacher" - she was in what in the US is high school but somehow was "teaching" kids.
I was really bad a it, but to make things worse, she yelled at me in my own ears for being bad at it. Mocked me in front of the other kids and such. I ended not only still being bad at dancing, but hating everything related to it.
As dancing was part of the curriculum, I had to endure the trauma for 6 more years. I never did it anymore, nor tried to learn it whatsoever. For a tropical country like this it could sound like nuts, but despite some people looking you down for not doing it, I haven't had much trouble for that in my adult life.
I was really bad a it, but to make things worse, she yelled at me in my own ears for being bad at it. Mocked me in front of the other kids and such. I ended not only still being bad at dancing, but hating everything related to it.
As dancing was part of the curriculum, I had to endure the trauma for 6 more years. I never did it anymore, nor tried to learn it whatsoever. For a tropical country like this it could sound like nuts, but despite some people looking you down for not doing it, I haven't had much trouble for that in my adult life.
There's something about dancing that people get really weird about if you don't want to participate. As if it's their god given duty to convince you that, no, you really DO like dancing, and you'll have a great time if you just loosen up and have fun. I wish people would just respect "no thank you" and stop trying to push people to do something they clearly don't want. As is, I have to avoid events with dancing.
And no, it's not an elitist "I'm just so much smarter than the people dancing" thing, like the post seems to imply.
And no, it's not an elitist "I'm just so much smarter than the people dancing" thing, like the post seems to imply.
What about those who didn't want at first, then tried it after some nudging, and ended up enjoying it?
I was one of these. I grew up fairly religious in an environment where dancing was looked down upon (especially for men). As an adult, I had friends repeatedly nudge me toward it and it took a long time to get comfortable with it. Much of my resistance was not wanting to look silly in front of others, not wanting to be out of rhythm, etc. It’s a humbling experience at first and requires swallowing some pride. But man, once you experience your body unlocking and moving in time with music and other people, it’s hard to look back.
I definitely acknowledge gp’s point, it’s important to respect people’s boundaries and not push them into things they don’t want to be pushed into. I just hope you know that nudging often comes from people who like you and want to share joy with you.
My preferred manner of nudging is to 1. make a fool out of myself to clear space and 2. try and get people on the sidelines to do the smallest dance possible. Wiggle your pinkies, tap your toes, feel your way into it :)
I definitely acknowledge gp’s point, it’s important to respect people’s boundaries and not push them into things they don’t want to be pushed into. I just hope you know that nudging often comes from people who like you and want to share joy with you.
My preferred manner of nudging is to 1. make a fool out of myself to clear space and 2. try and get people on the sidelines to do the smallest dance possible. Wiggle your pinkies, tap your toes, feel your way into it :)
Any tips for how to get into it as an adult?
I think that’s why some people really push it. There a myriad of reasons for not wanting to dance. A lot of them can be overcame (shame, fear of embarrassment, lack of knowledge how one would properly dance, doubt that it will be an enjoyable experience, etc) and the person can experience legitimate joy after dancing. This happens often enough that convinces the pushers that this it’s a good thing to keep pushing the resistants to dance. Of course, it’s not always true. But I would not fault those pushers to believe so.
A little nudging seems okay, but it often crosses the line with dancing, to the point where people get physically dragged to the dance floor.
A little gentle nudging followed by respecting the other person's choice is the way to go. But some people can't seem to compute the fact that there are legitimate reasons some people don't enjoy dancing, and take it as an almost personal affront.
If I'm playing Smash Brothers at a party, I'll totally try to get people involved, even if they don't look interested. But some people don't enjoy video games, and some people just don't like fighting games, so I don't physically force the controller into their hands, claiming "you'll have fun if you just loosen up!"
A little gentle nudging followed by respecting the other person's choice is the way to go. But some people can't seem to compute the fact that there are legitimate reasons some people don't enjoy dancing, and take it as an almost personal affront.
If I'm playing Smash Brothers at a party, I'll totally try to get people involved, even if they don't look interested. But some people don't enjoy video games, and some people just don't like fighting games, so I don't physically force the controller into their hands, claiming "you'll have fun if you just loosen up!"
In my experience, if you tell one of the dance people that you have tried for over 10 years and still don't like it, they will very likely not even accept that.
They will believe they can show you better and make you like it, and thus will try to obnoxiously persuade you to dance with them.
It's just rude.
And the attitude of yours is also part of the problem:
Believing that somehow grown up people are incapable of learning the very basic fact "dancing can be fun" on their own and need to be told about it and nudged towards it.
No, they don't, they know it can be enjoyable, and they have tried, and it isn't for them, and they don't need to be educated any further.
They will believe they can show you better and make you like it, and thus will try to obnoxiously persuade you to dance with them.
It's just rude.
And the attitude of yours is also part of the problem:
Believing that somehow grown up people are incapable of learning the very basic fact "dancing can be fun" on their own and need to be told about it and nudged towards it.
No, they don't, they know it can be enjoyable, and they have tried, and it isn't for them, and they don't need to be educated any further.
What about those who dance like Elaine Benes?
I'm just not made for dancing. I suck at it, and even if I "loosen up" I'm still awful.
It's best for all if I just sit in the corner with my phone reading hackernews. Trust me.
I'm just not made for dancing. I suck at it, and even if I "loosen up" I'm still awful.
It's best for all if I just sit in the corner with my phone reading hackernews. Trust me.
Dancing is interpersonal, but not for Elaine. Look at how people enjoy your dancing and react to it. That's part of it.
Our just dance like nobody's watching. Elaine sure does.
Our just dance like nobody's watching. Elaine sure does.
Whenever someone has done that I end up pretending it’s fine until it’s socially acceptable to stop.
Stop caring so much about what others think..
Just so you know, if I ever met you at a party I probably secretly resent you and I'm guessing I'm not alone.
I DONT LIKE DANCING. I DONT LIKE THE THING THAT YOU LIKE.
I DONT LIKE DANCING. I DONT LIKE THE THING THAT YOU LIKE.
This is fine, I completely get it. My comment was more on the fact that you seem to care enough about what others think that you pretend you like it. Why not just tell people the same thing that you wrote in all caps, possibly adding "fuck off" if they still don't get it.
Because then my choices are:
1) give in and pretend to go along with it.
2) look like an asshole at a wedding.
Sorry if I don’t want to ruin someone’s wedding lol.
1) give in and pretend to go along with it.
2) look like an asshole at a wedding.
Sorry if I don’t want to ruin someone’s wedding lol.
This can be applied the other way too: stop caring so much about people not wanting to dance. They're adults and can make their own decisions about what's fun for them, it's not your responsibility to force them to enjoy something.
Cabronavirus(1)
A lot of people genuinely feel super self-conscious about dancing and do need that convincing to give themselves permission to dance. And once they do, they love it. A lot of people need to also have a couple drinks to loosen up enough to enjoy it as well. I was in both of these categories for a looong time.
So it's not a "god given duty to convince", it's just that it's a genuine act of friendship and support that a lot of people need. The thing is, unless you know somebody incredibly well, there's really no way to tell who needs the convincing and then will enjoy it, and who doesn't and won't enjoy dancing even after they're convinced.
So people try to convince you for a bit, and if you still refuse, then they leave you alone. It seems like a workable compromise. Same as trying to invite you to a party three times and then giving up when you say you're really not coming.
So I agree it's annoying when you really don't want to do something. But I hope you can understand that it is other people genuinely trying to be helpful, in a way that is often helpful for others. Sometimes people really do need help to overcome shyness, even when they already want to.
So it's not a "god given duty to convince", it's just that it's a genuine act of friendship and support that a lot of people need. The thing is, unless you know somebody incredibly well, there's really no way to tell who needs the convincing and then will enjoy it, and who doesn't and won't enjoy dancing even after they're convinced.
So people try to convince you for a bit, and if you still refuse, then they leave you alone. It seems like a workable compromise. Same as trying to invite you to a party three times and then giving up when you say you're really not coming.
So I agree it's annoying when you really don't want to do something. But I hope you can understand that it is other people genuinely trying to be helpful, in a way that is often helpful for others. Sometimes people really do need help to overcome shyness, even when they already want to.
> So people try to convince you for a bit, and if you still refuse, then they leave you alone. It seems like a workable compromise.
And what they forget while doing that is that they are not the only person existing in the universe:
Others will also attempt to convince the very same non-dancing person to dance.
So if you are at a party, sitting at the bar not dancing, you will have to have this discussion like 5 times in a single evening.
And if you enjoy going to parties even though you don't dance and therefore go regularly, then over the decades you will have to have the discussion thousands of times - which isn't a workable compromise anymore but just an annoyance.
And what they forget while doing that is that they are not the only person existing in the universe:
Others will also attempt to convince the very same non-dancing person to dance.
So if you are at a party, sitting at the bar not dancing, you will have to have this discussion like 5 times in a single evening.
And if you enjoy going to parties even though you don't dance and therefore go regularly, then over the decades you will have to have the discussion thousands of times - which isn't a workable compromise anymore but just an annoyance.
I think this person went back in time a couple of years and stole the thoughts out of my head for this post.
If you go to an event in which most people do X and you refuse to do X then you're marking yourself as an outsider, unsurprisingly people find this suspicious/odd.
You could apply it to anything. If I went along to a LAN party or an arcade and then said "I don't play video games" people would think I had a stick up my arse and they'd be right.
If you really don't enjoy it then it's normal to not go along to those sort of events, there's nothing weird about that.
You could apply it to anything. If I went along to a LAN party or an arcade and then said "I don't play video games" people would think I had a stick up my arse and they'd be right.
If you really don't enjoy it then it's normal to not go along to those sort of events, there's nothing weird about that.
This comparison doesn't make sense. Dancing is present at many events that you would have legitimate reasons to want to attend for reasons other than dance. That's not really the case for a LAN party or an arcade.
> If you really don't enjoy it then it's normal to not go along to those sort of events
I guess I'll just never go to a wedding again, or a live music event, or a house party, or any of the other random events where dancing happens but isn't necessarily the focus.
> If you really don't enjoy it then it's normal to not go along to those sort of events
I guess I'll just never go to a wedding again, or a live music event, or a house party, or any of the other random events where dancing happens but isn't necessarily the focus.
Dancing isn't a focus for a live music event, a house party, a wedding?
I mean, yeah, you come off as a bit weird. Sorry. It's fairly integral to all three. Maybe not the wedding depending on the couple.
I mean, yeah, you come off as a bit weird. Sorry. It's fairly integral to all three. Maybe not the wedding depending on the couple.
> Maybe not the wedding depending on the couple.
"Maybe" implying that there are weddings I shouldn't attend because I don't like dancing?
And I shouldn't go to live music or house parties because it's weird to do so if I don't like dancing?
Nahh, miss me with that. This is exactly what I mean. The only weird thing here is the idea that I shouldn't go out and have fun with friends because I don't like to dance. People are so weird about it, and treat it almost like a sacred act.
"Maybe" implying that there are weddings I shouldn't attend because I don't like dancing?
And I shouldn't go to live music or house parties because it's weird to do so if I don't like dancing?
Nahh, miss me with that. This is exactly what I mean. The only weird thing here is the idea that I shouldn't go out and have fun with friends because I don't like to dance. People are so weird about it, and treat it almost like a sacred act.
You can do whatever you want man, it's 2023.
If your friends like to dance and you're sat in the corner on your phone then you look like a weirdo. That doesn't mean you can't go out and have fun, it means owning the fact that your choices mark you as being different.
If your friends like to dance and you're sat in the corner on your phone then you look like a weirdo. That doesn't mean you can't go out and have fun, it means owning the fact that your choices mark you as being different.
So what if they're different? Your engagement with them still carries that faint undertone of judgement. Just leave it.
People don't usually drag you to dance if you're in animated conversation with another. They do it when when you seem lonely and bored. Trying to get you to engage with the people around you.
Yeah, going to a club and not wanting to dance is weird, but I'm not skipping weddings or various parties because I don't like to dance.
[deleted]
I grew up in an environment (and tbh am still in it despite huge geographical movement) where the prevalent message was "white men can't dance". The only nuance when I argued things like "what about swing, etc." was "nobody listens to that anymore".
I am not white (Anglo-Saxon), but I might as well be. I have a sense of rhythm and am flexible and in decent shape, but I also have aversion to attention for both related and unrelated reasons.
Every time dancing comes up, even "white" dancing like line dancing, I avoid it when I can get away with it, because "white men can't dance".
What do?
I am not white (Anglo-Saxon), but I might as well be. I have a sense of rhythm and am flexible and in decent shape, but I also have aversion to attention for both related and unrelated reasons.
Every time dancing comes up, even "white" dancing like line dancing, I avoid it when I can get away with it, because "white men can't dance".
What do?
[deleted]
I think the worst part about it is the same insecurity that causes someone to always say no to dancing also makes it difficult to say it with tact.
I've been there. It's even worse when you get the fake sympathy after you had to get fake mad at their insistence.
I've been there. It's even worse when you get the fake sympathy after you had to get fake mad at their insistence.
Yeah I just don’t find dancing fun. That’s it, end of story.
Wherever there’s dancing at a wedding or something I just think of it as something I have to get through so I don’t appear rude.
Wherever there’s dancing at a wedding or something I just think of it as something I have to get through so I don’t appear rude.
As written in another thread, why don't you just tell people to leave you alone if that's what you want. Avoiding to be rude at all costs is a silly goal.
Refusing to dance at an event where people are is literally an anti-social act.
Please note that I am NOT making a moral judgement whether or not you should always act in a pro-social way.
Please note that I am NOT making a moral judgement whether or not you should always act in a pro-social way.
This is exactly what I mean. What other activities to people start claiming "you are being anti social" because you don't participate? Why do people treat dance as if it's a sacred act that everyone must participate in?
Respect people's choices. Let people be adults who have the right to choose.
Respect people's choices. Let people be adults who have the right to choose.
By that definition, there are no sacred acts that everybody must participate in. Why do we even have that word or phrase? Because we know there are some things out is antisocial not to do. You don't have to do them, but yes, you will be judged for not participating.
> there are no sacred acts that everybody must participate in
I mean, I would say this is trivially true?
> You don't have to do them, but yes, you will be judged for not participating.
Why do you deserve to be judged for not dancing, but not for something like joining an 8 player Mario Kart race?
I mean, I would say this is trivially true?
> You don't have to do them, but yes, you will be judged for not participating.
Why do you deserve to be judged for not dancing, but not for something like joining an 8 player Mario Kart race?
The word "anti-social" comes embedded with a moral judgement. You can't just claim you're not making one.
You can do many other social things at a gathering. Dancing is just one of them.
Some thoughts: I like Douglas Adams phrase that says "I'd be happy than right any day". Also, about the hint "If programming is your dance, and you love doing it, then do it professionally" consider that turning something fun into a job may make it dull.
In my life I became much "lighter" when I learned to don't care so much if people think I'm right. I basically stopped being https://m.xkcd.com/386/ . My advice is be somewhat eclectic and respect other people tastes.
One more thing, and this is something I heard from someone else and could confirm myself: once you pass the stage of knowing your body and reading other people's non verbal communication, dance is purely algorithmic with a bit of Markov chain to decide the next step; we, TI/CS people, are actually the best ones doing it.
In my life I became much "lighter" when I learned to don't care so much if people think I'm right. I basically stopped being https://m.xkcd.com/386/ . My advice is be somewhat eclectic and respect other people tastes.
One more thing, and this is something I heard from someone else and could confirm myself: once you pass the stage of knowing your body and reading other people's non verbal communication, dance is purely algorithmic with a bit of Markov chain to decide the next step; we, TI/CS people, are actually the best ones doing it.
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day"
> Dancing is a great test of what part of your brain dominates. Good dancing is when you stop thinking and just let your feelings lead.
Yah, that's why best dancers in the world never train and prepare their routines.
Honestly. Good dancing is when you stop thinking, AFTER you have spent time preparing enough so you don't have to think about it anymore.
I wonder if people watching TV or Youtube get the wrong impression. They see people making things look easy. Nice poses, nice makeup, nice dresses, light moves. What they don't see is countless hours over many years that went into preparing everything.
**
I am an amateur runner. People sometimes tell me I am a natural. I honestly look well when running, no hunching, positively bouncy, light steps. No exertion. Easy breathing.
I try to explain that I spent couple years just fixing my running mechanics, one step at a time. Strengthening my muscles and tendons so that I can move my weight to forefoot and recover more energy when running, running with a metronome to get my cadence right, learning to breathe deeply and in sync with my strides, running strides to fix my mechanics when at full speed, bringing my attention to what my hands are doing so that they are relaxed and not moving to the sides too much, making sure my foot contacts pavement under me and not before me, making sure my heels move high up behind me, forcing myself to run straight and look straight, doing strength exercises at home so that my core muscles are strong enough to support good posture while running, learning to regulate my speed by tilting forward, etc.
Even silly things like paying attention to the weather and clothing for the weather. I see so many people put on way too much clothes when it gets just a tad colder and then look visibly uncomfortable throughout the run.
When I started running I did it, too. Then I made a running log where I noted the outside weather conditions and how I felt through the run and over time I learned what I exactly need to put on depending on the weather and the run I am making so I feel just right.
No, things don't come naturally -- at least not to most people.
And I think it is good news. Almost everybody can do almost everything. The only thing that is blocking me from being a good dancer is whether I want to invest the time to become one. I don't. I can relax knowing it is up to me to decide what I can achieve and what I want to spend my efforts on.
Yah, that's why best dancers in the world never train and prepare their routines.
Honestly. Good dancing is when you stop thinking, AFTER you have spent time preparing enough so you don't have to think about it anymore.
I wonder if people watching TV or Youtube get the wrong impression. They see people making things look easy. Nice poses, nice makeup, nice dresses, light moves. What they don't see is countless hours over many years that went into preparing everything.
**
I am an amateur runner. People sometimes tell me I am a natural. I honestly look well when running, no hunching, positively bouncy, light steps. No exertion. Easy breathing.
I try to explain that I spent couple years just fixing my running mechanics, one step at a time. Strengthening my muscles and tendons so that I can move my weight to forefoot and recover more energy when running, running with a metronome to get my cadence right, learning to breathe deeply and in sync with my strides, running strides to fix my mechanics when at full speed, bringing my attention to what my hands are doing so that they are relaxed and not moving to the sides too much, making sure my foot contacts pavement under me and not before me, making sure my heels move high up behind me, forcing myself to run straight and look straight, doing strength exercises at home so that my core muscles are strong enough to support good posture while running, learning to regulate my speed by tilting forward, etc.
Even silly things like paying attention to the weather and clothing for the weather. I see so many people put on way too much clothes when it gets just a tad colder and then look visibly uncomfortable throughout the run.
When I started running I did it, too. Then I made a running log where I noted the outside weather conditions and how I felt through the run and over time I learned what I exactly need to put on depending on the weather and the run I am making so I feel just right.
No, things don't come naturally -- at least not to most people.
And I think it is good news. Almost everybody can do almost everything. The only thing that is blocking me from being a good dancer is whether I want to invest the time to become one. I don't. I can relax knowing it is up to me to decide what I can achieve and what I want to spend my efforts on.
> Good dancing is when you stop thinking, AFTER you have spent time preparing enough so you don't have to think about it anymore.
Well, yeah, that's what OP said. Good dancing can happen after lots of training or none at all.
Well, yeah, that's what OP said. Good dancing can happen after lots of training or none at all.
"A vertical expression of a horizontal desire"
But really it is about enjoying music (and thus perhaps celebrating life) with your whole body, often in community with others similarly enjoying.
But really it is about enjoying music (and thus perhaps celebrating life) with your whole body, often in community with others similarly enjoying.
Why is this flagged? Genuinely curious. Do people feel attacked because it doesn't give with their worldview?
i think it might just be due to not being considered relevant to what hn posts are usually about, and is just an emotionally charged blogpost.
Lipsky: You dance?
David Foster Wallace : Uh huh. I’ve just discovered in the last few years that I really like it. Although I’m still not very good.
Lipsky: Where do you go, a club?
David: This Baptist church.
Lipsky: Why there?
David: Because Baptists can dance.
-- from the film The End of the Tour
David Foster Wallace : Uh huh. I’ve just discovered in the last few years that I really like it. Although I’m still not very good.
Lipsky: Where do you go, a club?
David: This Baptist church.
Lipsky: Why there?
David: Because Baptists can dance.
-- from the film The End of the Tour
The Real Crazy Frog Bros disagree with you: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kGGoeDrjL5g
Immanuel Kant famously said
> There are two things that don't have to mean anything, one is music and the other is laughter.
Surely there are more. Dancing is perhaps one of them.
> There are two things that don't have to mean anything, one is music and the other is laughter.
Surely there are more. Dancing is perhaps one of them.
[deleted]
What about programming a dance?
https://youtu.be/2z9XTeeA43o
https://youtu.be/2z9XTeeA43o
I'll one-up that with a computer science dance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3San3uKKHgg
I'm just not sure the common modern people dance at all.
They go to the dance floor and do some weird random movements listening to overly loud music of grossly low quality.
Whether people a century or two ago has interpreted this as dance or as some mental conditon is an open question.
I'm all for ball dance or irish dance but not for the club variety.
They go to the dance floor and do some weird random movements listening to overly loud music of grossly low quality.
Whether people a century or two ago has interpreted this as dance or as some mental conditon is an open question.
I'm all for ball dance or irish dance but not for the club variety.
Yeah what folks do nowadays is more like, I don't know, what people did for a million years before courtly Renaissance pedants started codifying it so somebody could be cooler than another person.
Nope! For a million years people spent a lot of effort on culture which meant their tunes (drum rhymes) and dance movements were quite advanced.
We live in epoch of deliberate primitivism.
We live in epoch of deliberate primitivism.
> We live in epoch of deliberate primitivism.
Maybe we prefer a more primitive lifestyle.
Maybe we prefer a more primitive lifestyle.
We found dance foot pattern fossils or something?
We know a few near-neolithic tribes right now.
We don't have good evidence for cognitively modern (vs anatomically) humans, cognitively modern including any known current tribes, beyond 200,000 years or so, other than I think there was some recent stuff finding decorative patterns a bit further back that might indicate it goes back more.
I'm not one for clubs either, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss it as some inferior, primitive pursuit or imply that it's indicative of some mental deficiency. Clubs are not for us, that's ok we have other things that we like. Let people enjoy things :)
This is HN, people enjoying things cannot stand.
I'm terrified just reading this article. But TFA's right of course.
If you find dancing hard or stupid you are not drunk enough.
Dancing is just a game we play, like everything else we do. Once you see it like that it all makes sense
> Dancing is just a game we play, like everything else we do. Once you see it like that it all makes sense
IMO, this is just not true.
There is something really special about synchronized action with other people. Be it marching, singing, chanting, etc. It engenders trust, builds community, and generally builds relationships in a way that I don't think anything else does. This isn't a strictly good thing either - my observation is that dancer relationships tend to be... unstable.
And partner dance is one of the most developed and interesting method of synchronized action that people have created[1].
It's fundamentally a different sort of activity to listening to poetry, playing basketball, attending a lecture, or writing a CRUD app.
---
1. Orchestra/band rivals dance here - certainly there is opportunity for much greater scale at high levels of complexity. Of course, you have to give up touch to get that.
IMO, this is just not true.
There is something really special about synchronized action with other people. Be it marching, singing, chanting, etc. It engenders trust, builds community, and generally builds relationships in a way that I don't think anything else does. This isn't a strictly good thing either - my observation is that dancer relationships tend to be... unstable.
And partner dance is one of the most developed and interesting method of synchronized action that people have created[1].
It's fundamentally a different sort of activity to listening to poetry, playing basketball, attending a lecture, or writing a CRUD app.
---
1. Orchestra/band rivals dance here - certainly there is opportunity for much greater scale at high levels of complexity. Of course, you have to give up touch to get that.
>It engenders trust, builds community, and generally builds relationships
But that's what competitive games also do. You cannot play basketball without trusting, collaborating, communicating with your teammates. Those are the pillars of teamwork. Also synchronicity is core to them, so much that researchers have taken noticed (https://www.popsci.com/nba-basketball-synchronous-movements-...).
But that's what competitive games also do. You cannot play basketball without trusting, collaborating, communicating with your teammates. Those are the pillars of teamwork. Also synchronicity is core to them, so much that researchers have taken noticed (https://www.popsci.com/nba-basketball-synchronous-movements-...).
> But that's what competitive games also do. You cannot play basketball without trusting, collaborating, communicating with your teammates. Those are the pillars of teamwork.
Sure. But it's different. In a team environment, you build trust with teammates through competence.
That's not really what I'm talking about. Synchronous action doesn't need competence. Church hymn singing is famously bad. But it helps build community anyhow.
> Also synchronicity is core to them, so much that researchers have taken noticed (https://www.popsci.com/nba-basketball-synchronous-movements-...).
I mean, I feel like this link really backs me up.
The stuff they mentioned - marching in step, etc isn't basket ball. It's military parade, basically. And it has the effect of building trust.
It's great that basketball teams have figured out how to leverage that to make teams better, but that doesn't mean that the same thing will happen with lots of drills.
Sure. But it's different. In a team environment, you build trust with teammates through competence.
That's not really what I'm talking about. Synchronous action doesn't need competence. Church hymn singing is famously bad. But it helps build community anyhow.
> Also synchronicity is core to them, so much that researchers have taken noticed (https://www.popsci.com/nba-basketball-synchronous-movements-...).
I mean, I feel like this link really backs me up.
The stuff they mentioned - marching in step, etc isn't basket ball. It's military parade, basically. And it has the effect of building trust.
It's great that basketball teams have figured out how to leverage that to make teams better, but that doesn't mean that the same thing will happen with lots of drills.
> It's fundamentally a different sort of activity to listening to poetry, playing basketball, attending a lecture, or writing a CRUD app.
I disagree. Team sports (playing basketball) are just as much about choreography and also the connection between dance and all other activities you mentioned. The feeling of being part of a "well-oiled machine" is the sense that the choreography is successful. This feels good because most of the time a group of people wouldn't care for doing what you expect. It's affirmation.
I disagree. Team sports (playing basketball) are just as much about choreography and also the connection between dance and all other activities you mentioned. The feeling of being part of a "well-oiled machine" is the sense that the choreography is successful. This feels good because most of the time a group of people wouldn't care for doing what you expect. It's affirmation.
> I disagree. Team sports (playing basketball) are just as much about choreography and also the connection between dance and all other activities you mentioned. The feeling of being part of a "well-oiled machine" is the sense that the choreography is successful. This feels good because most of the time a group of people wouldn't care for doing what you expect. It's affirmation.
I've done team sports and all I can say is: it's not the same[1]. When I'm on a team, we're all trying to achieve the same goal, but we aren't one body. There's no sense that everyone is acting as a single being. Beyond that, I guess, I can't really give much of a logical argument - it's just something that I've experienced. And others may disagree, which is fine too.
My own personal theory is that there is no innate way the body can tell what is self and what is other. And synchronized movement is a sort of hack that tricks people into partially accepting other people as self. But that's just a wild theory I have and has no real backing that I know of.
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1. I suspect that high level military drill probably would engender the same feelings, but I suspect that that's not what you meant when you mentioned "team sports".
I've done team sports and all I can say is: it's not the same[1]. When I'm on a team, we're all trying to achieve the same goal, but we aren't one body. There's no sense that everyone is acting as a single being. Beyond that, I guess, I can't really give much of a logical argument - it's just something that I've experienced. And others may disagree, which is fine too.
My own personal theory is that there is no innate way the body can tell what is self and what is other. And synchronized movement is a sort of hack that tricks people into partially accepting other people as self. But that's just a wild theory I have and has no real backing that I know of.
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1. I suspect that high level military drill probably would engender the same feelings, but I suspect that that's not what you meant when you mentioned "team sports".
Your comment clearly shows your bias. Amateur orchestras are a mess just like amateur sports teams. Nobody has a common vision and each is mostly left to their own devices.
Now switch to professional ensembles and professional sports teams and the level of coordination and complicity is exactly the same.
Now switch to professional ensembles and professional sports teams and the level of coordination and complicity is exactly the same.
“Game” is not pejorative in this context.
Huizinga [1], I'm sure. Literary bollocks. It's a contrived intellectual effort, whose only goal can be to impress.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_Ludens
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_Ludens
So when I'm dancing alone, which I do occasionally, I play a game? What game is that?
Solitaire 3D
Games are not always group activity. The game is alignment & synchronization. Animals also dance. Parrots are quite good at it.
Solitaire. ;-)
Dancing
Being a dancer (lindy hop) with a large number of dancers in my social circle, dancing is actually a frequent source of tension among many couples around me.
Couples splitting up because one is heavily more invested in dancing than the other is a common occurence.
And don’t get me started on lindy hop vs west coast swing.