Ask HN: I was fired and I'm pissed off, how to avoid burning bridges?
27 comments
Key lesson learnt here - lesson that most of us either already learnt or will learn pretty soon: detach emotionally yourself from company you work for. Usually easier said than done, but saves a lot of headache in situations like this. Invest your emotions into your family, beloved ones. Treat company as business partner - with respect and limited trust. It goes contrary to popular (particularly in western culture) trends to treat your employer as a second family, sharing your emotions almost publicly and expecting everyone to understand and support you. Sad truth is that at the end nobody really cares about your emotions or bad feeling, no matter what happiness-managers try to prove, business is business. Your family, your spouse are ones who should care.
As mentioned before - don't burn bridges. People who you were working with might become your business partners one way or the other in the future. Embrace this situation as a lesson learnt. It will make you more aware and stronger. Take care.
As mentioned before - don't burn bridges. People who you were working with might become your business partners one way or the other in the future. Embrace this situation as a lesson learnt. It will make you more aware and stronger. Take care.
Think of Every corporate job as a glorified McDonald job.
Everybody who has done such work knows that it is impossible to simply leave your heart and soul at home.
Quite a blanketing statement considering that you can't get in the head of every other person in the universe.
Work has always been a means to support my own personal projects, and I've never felt any kind of investment in the work, the company, or colleagues. Additionally the only things to me that are tangible takeaways, you get to keep even if you are no longer at the company:
- domain knowledge such as tech stacks
- meaningful friendships
Work has always been a means to support my own personal projects, and I've never felt any kind of investment in the work, the company, or colleagues. Additionally the only things to me that are tangible takeaways, you get to keep even if you are no longer at the company:
- domain knowledge such as tech stacks
- meaningful friendships
>> and I've never felt any kind of investment in the work, the company, or colleagues
how can that lead to meaningful friendships?
how can that lead to meaningful friendships?
I empathize with your situation.
You are angry and are still emotionally processing and reacting to what has happened to you. Your mind is focused on looking backwards and stuck thinking about your former employer.
For me, what helped was: talking to the other people in your life - your friends and family, ideally in person. Get plenty of exercise and sunlight. Take a break from the screen and social media.
When you have had enough time and space to mentally reset, you may find that you're not thinking about your former job or former managers any more. Instead you'll be thinking about what you are doing in the moment, or what you would like to do next - and that mode of thinking will be much more interesting, and positive, and productive for you.
If in the short term you need to keep the income flowing in, to support yourself or your family, consider looking for a next job that may not be your dream job, but pays well enough, and is one that you don't keep thinking about when you clock off work. After a bad job, a new job with no mental/emotional/political baggage can feel somewhat like a holiday.
Once your short-term financial situation is stable, and your mind has settled down and can think about your future rather than being fixed looking back, it could be a good time to start thinking about and working toward a longer term goal - a goal of your own, not the goals of your employers.
You are angry and are still emotionally processing and reacting to what has happened to you. Your mind is focused on looking backwards and stuck thinking about your former employer.
For me, what helped was: talking to the other people in your life - your friends and family, ideally in person. Get plenty of exercise and sunlight. Take a break from the screen and social media.
When you have had enough time and space to mentally reset, you may find that you're not thinking about your former job or former managers any more. Instead you'll be thinking about what you are doing in the moment, or what you would like to do next - and that mode of thinking will be much more interesting, and positive, and productive for you.
If in the short term you need to keep the income flowing in, to support yourself or your family, consider looking for a next job that may not be your dream job, but pays well enough, and is one that you don't keep thinking about when you clock off work. After a bad job, a new job with no mental/emotional/political baggage can feel somewhat like a holiday.
Once your short-term financial situation is stable, and your mind has settled down and can think about your future rather than being fixed looking back, it could be a good time to start thinking about and working toward a longer term goal - a goal of your own, not the goals of your employers.
Burn the bridges, learn from it, and move on. Some people may say that it's always better to keep the doors open, but let's be honest, does it really matter what they think of you? What matters is what you think of yourself. They misled you, fired you, and now you're here wondering if it's appropriate to block them. They don't care about you, and neither should you care about them. The world is big enough.
You asking for advice and support is already better than what 99%+ people would do in your situation.
You feel betrayed. They set you up with an expectation of emotional safety and then used it against you. That’s messed up. I’d be angry too, and I have been angry in similar situations.
I’ve learned a couple lessons over the years:
1. Most people in a transactional setting like business are not honest. They might claim to be supportive, understanding, etc., but when you lean on them to do so, they’re not. If a transaction is taking place conditioned on something like you performing a job, then you probably aren’t going to get unconditional support in return.
2. It’s not worth burning bridges. Not because these people will spread gossip about you or reconnect with you down the line, but because it’s a distraction from moving forward. The best way to let go of an experience like this is to get involved with a new experience. Vent any emotion first and then dive into something new. A new project, a new programming language, a new job, etc.
3. Use this experience as one of your super powers. You’re not the first to be treated this way and you won’t be the last. You now have the unique perspective of being able to empathize with others going through a situation like this. And you’ll be able to recognize in yourself if you start to go down the path of treating someone this way.
The ones that you want to stay connected to will reach out in time. But if no one does then lucky you for not having wasted more time with people who treat others this way.
I’m sorry you had this experience, but thanks for sharing and reaching out. And good luck with whatever lies ahead.
You feel betrayed. They set you up with an expectation of emotional safety and then used it against you. That’s messed up. I’d be angry too, and I have been angry in similar situations.
I’ve learned a couple lessons over the years:
1. Most people in a transactional setting like business are not honest. They might claim to be supportive, understanding, etc., but when you lean on them to do so, they’re not. If a transaction is taking place conditioned on something like you performing a job, then you probably aren’t going to get unconditional support in return.
2. It’s not worth burning bridges. Not because these people will spread gossip about you or reconnect with you down the line, but because it’s a distraction from moving forward. The best way to let go of an experience like this is to get involved with a new experience. Vent any emotion first and then dive into something new. A new project, a new programming language, a new job, etc.
3. Use this experience as one of your super powers. You’re not the first to be treated this way and you won’t be the last. You now have the unique perspective of being able to empathize with others going through a situation like this. And you’ll be able to recognize in yourself if you start to go down the path of treating someone this way.
The ones that you want to stay connected to will reach out in time. But if no one does then lucky you for not having wasted more time with people who treat others this way.
I’m sorry you had this experience, but thanks for sharing and reaching out. And good luck with whatever lies ahead.
I wouldn't worry too much about burnt bridges. I don't mean anything negative by this but, Chances are you are thinking about the situation far more than they are.
As far as the abrupt dismissal and not being able to say goodbye, I think that is a reasonable stance for a company to take. Anecdotally from my past experience with an employee that quit and gave two weeks notice, it was a horrible two weeks for everyone and after them I just told future people who gave notice to not worry and paid them out as if they worked it.
On a more positive note, I would also say that burned bridges are not that big of deal, I have checked with past employers about potential hires that said awful things but still hired them. If you know your stuff, show up for work and don't have a bunch of personal crisis that will affect the business plenty of companies will want you.
Good luck!
As far as the abrupt dismissal and not being able to say goodbye, I think that is a reasonable stance for a company to take. Anecdotally from my past experience with an employee that quit and gave two weeks notice, it was a horrible two weeks for everyone and after them I just told future people who gave notice to not worry and paid them out as if they worked it.
On a more positive note, I would also say that burned bridges are not that big of deal, I have checked with past employers about potential hires that said awful things but still hired them. If you know your stuff, show up for work and don't have a bunch of personal crisis that will affect the business plenty of companies will want you.
Good luck!
startup I helped founding. I was the first engineering hire there. Gave my blood and sweat
But you weren’t a founder and could get ignored or fired anytime. Been there done that, required a therapy session to even realize the fact. It’s easy to fall into this “we” trap. There’s no “we”.
I was transparent about my feelings, I got a call from my direct manager (one of the founders) and was fired. <skim>. They always said that it was ok to be transparent about my feelings, but it actually got me fired
Time to learn a lesson. Only be transparent about feelings which you think will get you into a better position (\1). You may have thought you’re something like a child of this company, but you are not. It isn’t a family, and they’re not your friends, though it’s so nice to think about it that way.
how to avoid burning bridges
Avoid contact for half a year or so (avoid blocks too). You may have left an impression, they may have left it too, but it will fade away eventually. Take your time to realize what you missed and imagined. And if you’d be still interested in them (may be not), contact with an explanation/reintroduction that statisfies \1.
But you weren’t a founder and could get ignored or fired anytime. Been there done that, required a therapy session to even realize the fact. It’s easy to fall into this “we” trap. There’s no “we”.
I was transparent about my feelings, I got a call from my direct manager (one of the founders) and was fired. <skim>. They always said that it was ok to be transparent about my feelings, but it actually got me fired
Time to learn a lesson. Only be transparent about feelings which you think will get you into a better position (\1). You may have thought you’re something like a child of this company, but you are not. It isn’t a family, and they’re not your friends, though it’s so nice to think about it that way.
how to avoid burning bridges
Avoid contact for half a year or so (avoid blocks too). You may have left an impression, they may have left it too, but it will fade away eventually. Take your time to realize what you missed and imagined. And if you’d be still interested in them (may be not), contact with an explanation/reintroduction that statisfies \1.
This is shitty, it has also happened to me.
Unfortunately, it's just business, it's just the way companies work. It's shitty that your manager didn't fight for you, but realistically it probably wasn't his decision and he was just doing his job passing on the message.
Try to just put on a brave and happy face, even go and meet up with these people (to pick up your stuff, farewell gathering, whatever). Tell them you understand why it was the right decision, that you have a lot of opportunities outside the company that you are now able to pursue, etc, etc.
Your instinct not to burn bridges is the correct one. You may find yourself needing a reference or paperwork from these people, or they might be next to get fired (a very real possibility if there is new management, with a fondness for firing people) and you could help them with leads at your future company, etc, etc... just remember it's a long game, it's a marathon not a sprint, separate the human element from people doing their job in a company environment, and focus on what happens long after this company goes broke, the new management are ejected, etc.
Unfortunately, it's just business, it's just the way companies work. It's shitty that your manager didn't fight for you, but realistically it probably wasn't his decision and he was just doing his job passing on the message.
Try to just put on a brave and happy face, even go and meet up with these people (to pick up your stuff, farewell gathering, whatever). Tell them you understand why it was the right decision, that you have a lot of opportunities outside the company that you are now able to pursue, etc, etc.
Your instinct not to burn bridges is the correct one. You may find yourself needing a reference or paperwork from these people, or they might be next to get fired (a very real possibility if there is new management, with a fondness for firing people) and you could help them with leads at your future company, etc, etc... just remember it's a long game, it's a marathon not a sprint, separate the human element from people doing their job in a company environment, and focus on what happens long after this company goes broke, the new management are ejected, etc.
This happened to me, almost identical. I was the first hire and an engineer. I worked for three years and some change before I was no longer a culture fit.
Never assume you are on the same level as the founders. There is no “family” and the “culture” is really a “cult”.
Never share your true thoughts or feelings. Tell them what they want to hear or whatever makes them feel in power and exert your true power elsewhere. Err, read the 48 Laws of Power and then apply it.
I didn’t burn that bridge but I burnt every one after it if I was crossed. I maintain a shit list of companies and people to take down in the future.
Never assume you are on the same level as the founders. There is no “family” and the “culture” is really a “cult”.
Never share your true thoughts or feelings. Tell them what they want to hear or whatever makes them feel in power and exert your true power elsewhere. Err, read the 48 Laws of Power and then apply it.
I didn’t burn that bridge but I burnt every one after it if I was crossed. I maintain a shit list of companies and people to take down in the future.
I was in a similar situation with a company I co founded. Burnt some bridges, burnt money burning those bridges, but kept myself from burning a lot more.
I think you have to let yourself write all the angry emails. Write the angry social media posts explaining the situation. Then don't send them.
I think you have to let yourself write all the angry emails. Write the angry social media posts explaining the situation. Then don't send them.
It sounds like zero bridges were burnt. The perceived animosity was probably because they felt awkward about it and ended up doing it suboptimally.
From what you've written, they very possibly look fondly on your early involvement. Getting demotivated isn't wrong or bad; we're all human. And even if they are salty, the tech world is huge and potential employers rarely dig deep into your past employment.
The most important thing is not to dwell on this. It has a large potential to sap energy from future endeavors, which would be much more tragic. Instead, use it as motivation to build even better things.
From what you've written, they very possibly look fondly on your early involvement. Getting demotivated isn't wrong or bad; we're all human. And even if they are salty, the tech world is huge and potential employers rarely dig deep into your past employment.
The most important thing is not to dwell on this. It has a large potential to sap energy from future endeavors, which would be much more tragic. Instead, use it as motivation to build even better things.
I've experienced a situation like that few years ago, I didn't get fired, but it looked like it.
I've felt lot of anger, incomprehension and like you I wanted to burn bridges.
Most of the feelings that I felt were wrong because I was very emotionnal. It turned out that I recontacted people from this company last year and they were really happy to hear from me again.
The thing that helped me the most was having long term goals but also short, it kept me from burning bridges and thinking beyond myself.
Well that sucks.
You have every right to feel what you’re feeling.
Actions have consequences. You have to decide if those consequences are worth it (in this case usually not).
With time you’ll move on and not care so much about it, even though right now it stings.
Focus on what you can do to better your situation versus what you can do to feel better about your situation. Lashing out at others doesn’t have a good payoff. Prepping resume and getting an even better paying job with better people is a better FU to the ones who fired you.
All the best
You have every right to feel what you’re feeling.
Actions have consequences. You have to decide if those consequences are worth it (in this case usually not).
With time you’ll move on and not care so much about it, even though right now it stings.
Focus on what you can do to better your situation versus what you can do to feel better about your situation. Lashing out at others doesn’t have a good payoff. Prepping resume and getting an even better paying job with better people is a better FU to the ones who fired you.
All the best
You have hopefully saved others from the same
mistake. Which is a sort of pay it forward
thing.
Expect companies to do what is in their best interest at any moment. There is no loyalty, no friendship, and you work your ass off one year, you got paid, the next year it probably counts for little: no effect on promotion, salary or stock options can be expected.
IMO places that make you work your ass off in software will pay poorly and are badly run. Other industries may be different e.g. finance.
Expect companies to do what is in their best interest at any moment. There is no loyalty, no friendship, and you work your ass off one year, you got paid, the next year it probably counts for little: no effect on promotion, salary or stock options can be expected.
IMO places that make you work your ass off in software will pay poorly and are badly run. Other industries may be different e.g. finance.
There are some harsh truths in this situation that other commenters mentioned and plenty of good advice. IMO the most important one, move on - you seem like a very capable person and pretty sure you have great opportunities in front of you. Use this to start a new chapter and you'll be very content that this happened when you look back :)
Thank you for providing insight into your experience. It serves as a cautionary story for others in our sector.
My suggestion would be to accept the situation and concentrate on moving forward with your career and life. Allow your past experiences to inform your decisions when faced with comparable scenarios in the future.
My suggestion would be to accept the situation and concentrate on moving forward with your career and life. Allow your past experiences to inform your decisions when faced with comparable scenarios in the future.
NEVER attach yourself or your soul to a company. They are paying you to do a job. Do your job and kick ass but that's it.
I recommend you sleep on this for a week. Your first reaction is almost never the right one.
I recommend you sleep on this for a week. Your first reaction is almost never the right one.
1. Take a step away from social media for a while.
2. Get out a pen and paper. Write out several physical letters expressing your anger at the relevant parties.
3. Put them in a folder to read next week and decide if you want to send.
2. Get out a pen and paper. Write out several physical letters expressing your anger at the relevant parties.
3. Put them in a folder to read next week and decide if you want to send.
Mute, don't block, and ideally with a timeout (e.g. mute for 3 months). Go on a vacation. Learn from this but move on.
Did you get severance?
Severance is mandatory in my country, so yes.
[deleted]
Honestly, you sometimes have to see that where doors close, there are many others that are going to open. You got your experience there, you contributed. If I were you, I'd dust off that resume and think of every major accomplishment goal you had there including the fact that you saw the company through its most challenging times. If your company had clients/customers, make sure to mention where you started at and where you ended.
You don't have to burn bridges at all. Just because no one reached out to you doesn't mean anything. Life goes on. They are still working their jobs, they are still doing what they have to do, and that's all there is to it. Unfortunately, out of sight, out of mind, they aren't thinking of you. And they aren't required to do so. But to make sure you justify your being there, list it all on your resume.
I took a company outside the United States from a small local company to a global company starting at just around 3% of the North America market share and I left when it was at around 22%. I'd say that's pretty damn good. After they hired me with a generous salary for part-time work, I would offer them suggestions and work closely with them to tell them exactly what they needed to implement to be better, and while it took a while, 90% of my suggestions were implemented.
Just to iterate my own story to you. I wasn't the developer nor the founder, but I'd come across a new company pretty early. I was new to cloud computing and still learning while they had years of experience, they were still new to being a new company. I came across their website and their English wasn't good. Their product was semi-broken. I took screenshots of starting from scratch all the way to finish and the product was just broken. To even install it was a lot of work, which I also helped them to turn it into just a few clicks. But at first, I wasn't really interested in their product after it broke and had found another that 'just worked'.
But they were still wanting me to use their product. They had me 'translate' a few pages into better English for them but I got bored and stopped. I sent them a few examples and thought I was done. For about a year, the CEO chatted with me and really wanted me to join their team as they really liked the way I explained how to use their product. Finally, I joined and first started working on blog posts before they switched me over working with their team on creating a user-friendly knowledgebase.
I'd also had a hand in a lot of suggestions for development and the way they were going. I had built my own web hosting service with another product but met the CEO in Canada, where I showed him everything. From there, they grabbed all my ideas and implemented them into their own program. I was then invited to their country of Malaysia, where I got to meet everyone, just before COVID-19 hit.
After I flew home, I had a better understanding of my role in their company, and we worked for years together. Their product was becoming very solid, stable, and everything anyone could ever want in server management software. IMO, they were even better than CPanel. Eventually, however, after almost 4 years of working for them, I had wrapped up a lot of their knowledgebase, and my workload was becoming less and less, and they started having me train their interns and load them up with knowledge about the software, before they eventually let me go. I wanted to stay. I was doing everything and anything to justify my paycheck, but ultimately, we had accomplished the main goals they wanted me to do for them and there was nothing more I could do.
While I was sad, there were really no hard feelings. And looking back at my accomplishments with them -- from a product that barely worked to a full-blown in-demand service that went from catering to the Asia-only (Malaysia and Indonesia) market to the entire world... at least my side of the globe at 22% market share, I can only be grateful they gave me such an opportunity to work with them on their product. I learned a lot about cloud computing, about them, and enjoyed working with them even if we no longer speak. They are still the same people I worked with and they are all a great team.
But there is no ill-will. They have an amazing solid product that "just works" out of the box now. They even implemented WordPress which I urged them to do to get more of that market. My job for them is done, my purpose was served. Not only that, I ditched the other service and began using theirs for all of my websites.
Since then, I've been offered a few jobs to help startups write their own knowledgebases and contribute to their SEO. I can't say that I've successfully obtained a full-time job with it, though some freelance work has been great, and it's also helped me with my own business.
That company that I came across in 2017 was RunCloud (https://runcloud.io).
You don't have to burn bridges at all. Just because no one reached out to you doesn't mean anything. Life goes on. They are still working their jobs, they are still doing what they have to do, and that's all there is to it. Unfortunately, out of sight, out of mind, they aren't thinking of you. And they aren't required to do so. But to make sure you justify your being there, list it all on your resume.
I took a company outside the United States from a small local company to a global company starting at just around 3% of the North America market share and I left when it was at around 22%. I'd say that's pretty damn good. After they hired me with a generous salary for part-time work, I would offer them suggestions and work closely with them to tell them exactly what they needed to implement to be better, and while it took a while, 90% of my suggestions were implemented.
Just to iterate my own story to you. I wasn't the developer nor the founder, but I'd come across a new company pretty early. I was new to cloud computing and still learning while they had years of experience, they were still new to being a new company. I came across their website and their English wasn't good. Their product was semi-broken. I took screenshots of starting from scratch all the way to finish and the product was just broken. To even install it was a lot of work, which I also helped them to turn it into just a few clicks. But at first, I wasn't really interested in their product after it broke and had found another that 'just worked'.
But they were still wanting me to use their product. They had me 'translate' a few pages into better English for them but I got bored and stopped. I sent them a few examples and thought I was done. For about a year, the CEO chatted with me and really wanted me to join their team as they really liked the way I explained how to use their product. Finally, I joined and first started working on blog posts before they switched me over working with their team on creating a user-friendly knowledgebase.
I'd also had a hand in a lot of suggestions for development and the way they were going. I had built my own web hosting service with another product but met the CEO in Canada, where I showed him everything. From there, they grabbed all my ideas and implemented them into their own program. I was then invited to their country of Malaysia, where I got to meet everyone, just before COVID-19 hit.
After I flew home, I had a better understanding of my role in their company, and we worked for years together. Their product was becoming very solid, stable, and everything anyone could ever want in server management software. IMO, they were even better than CPanel. Eventually, however, after almost 4 years of working for them, I had wrapped up a lot of their knowledgebase, and my workload was becoming less and less, and they started having me train their interns and load them up with knowledge about the software, before they eventually let me go. I wanted to stay. I was doing everything and anything to justify my paycheck, but ultimately, we had accomplished the main goals they wanted me to do for them and there was nothing more I could do.
While I was sad, there were really no hard feelings. And looking back at my accomplishments with them -- from a product that barely worked to a full-blown in-demand service that went from catering to the Asia-only (Malaysia and Indonesia) market to the entire world... at least my side of the globe at 22% market share, I can only be grateful they gave me such an opportunity to work with them on their product. I learned a lot about cloud computing, about them, and enjoyed working with them even if we no longer speak. They are still the same people I worked with and they are all a great team.
But there is no ill-will. They have an amazing solid product that "just works" out of the box now. They even implemented WordPress which I urged them to do to get more of that market. My job for them is done, my purpose was served. Not only that, I ditched the other service and began using theirs for all of my websites.
Since then, I've been offered a few jobs to help startups write their own knowledgebases and contribute to their SEO. I can't say that I've successfully obtained a full-time job with it, though some freelance work has been great, and it's also helped me with my own business.
That company that I came across in 2017 was RunCloud (https://runcloud.io).
Then came shiny management hires from big tech. Culture suddenly changed. People left. I stayed and hoped for things to get better, but wasn't as motived as before. Nevertheless, I kept my head up, tried to keep that sentiment to me and never demotivate others.
It wasn't sufficient. After a skip-level 1:1, where I was transparent about my feelings, I got a call from my direct manager (one of the founders) and was fired.
I was pissed off, felt betrayed. Like, I understand that you may not want unmotivated people around for long, but I never received any feedback on this. I had only recently started showing it transparently to my managers. They always said that it was ok to be transparent about my feelings, but it actually got me fired. My manager said that, since I was unmotivated, "it was better for both parts" that I leave.
But, to be honest, what stroke me most was that I had no time to make a goodbye post on Slack and that no one else reached me out after that. I was just thrown away. They always said that "my feelings are a priority", "I'm one of the most important assets of the company", but was just simply thrown out without even a knowledge sharing session (since I had a good chunk of undocumented knowledge about the systems).
My only desire right now is to just block everyone on social media and LinkedIn, but I know I should cool down and try not to burn bridges. But how do I do it? No one even reached me out after I was fired and I don't know if writing an e-mail is a good strategy by now. However, I also don't think they were left with a good impression since I couldn't hide from my manager my disappointment in that call... My fear is that the bridges are already burnt.