Open source smartwatch integrates ESP32 MCU with e-paper display(linuxgizmos.com)
linuxgizmos.com
Open source smartwatch integrates ESP32 MCU with e-paper display
https://linuxgizmos.com/open-source-smartwatch-integrates-esp32-mcu/
99 comments
Really surprised someone has not filled the gap that Pebble left. Projects like this get close, but it still boggles my mind that over a decade ago we had a polished and commercial e-ink smartwatch with a 1-week battery life, 5 atm waterproof rating, integration with Android and iOS, a vibrant developer community, and a robust app store... and it all just, disappeared.
My Pebble watch and my dumb-as-bricks LCD TV. Elegant simplicity of a past generation that I can't let go of today because the modern replacement sucks.
There's gotta be other things that fall in that category. 3.5mm headphones? Cars with tactile controls? Non-electric bicycles?
There's gotta be other things that fall in that category. 3.5mm headphones? Cars with tactile controls? Non-electric bicycles?
> 3.5mm headphones?
Yes. For over 30 years, consumer electronics had a Just Works™ standard for stereo audio. No pairing issues. No charging issues. No dongles for different devices.
For some situations (jogging, gym, housework, etc) I get that no-wires is also convenient, but others (like the car) make no damn sense, and even the situations where it does make sense aren't a reason to remove the feature.
But we did it anyway because it makes Apple more money.
Yes. For over 30 years, consumer electronics had a Just Works™ standard for stereo audio. No pairing issues. No charging issues. No dongles for different devices.
For some situations (jogging, gym, housework, etc) I get that no-wires is also convenient, but others (like the car) make no damn sense, and even the situations where it does make sense aren't a reason to remove the feature.
But we did it anyway because it makes Apple more money.
For cars wires make sense, but the lack of controls doesn’t. There’s no standard for play/pause/volume, or even in general a widely used wired digital standard.
Ideally we’d get rid of analog and have the same digital standard that works wires or wireless. In practice, I use Bluetooth and CarPlay.
Ideally we’d get rid of analog and have the same digital standard that works wires or wireless. In practice, I use Bluetooth and CarPlay.
There is a widely used standard, actually two, that solve this problem just fine over a single pure digital interface.
USB Audio Class has been almost universally supported in computing devices for literally decades at this point, as has USB HID Class which supports media controls.
I have no idea whether Apple allows it to work on iOS devices, but a car head unit could easily expose a USB audio class device and it'd "just work" with Android, Windows, MacOS, etc. devices. Add a USB HID "keyboard" that can send media/telephone inputs and you're good to go without any new tech required to be invented. Works with anything that doesn't go out of the way to prevent it from working. All you'd be missing compared to Bluetooth A2DP/AVRCP would be communicating media info back to the head unit, which is more of an optional nicety rather than a necessity.
Plug a USB cable in to whatever computing device you want to source audio from and it would work great.
Unfortunately the majority of the non-technical community, and a surprisingly large amount of the technical community, acts like they're allergic to wires. I honestly do not understand the demand for wireless charging, wireless AA/CP, etc. when a single cable works better for both. It's not that hard to plug a phone in when you sit down in your car.
USB Audio Class has been almost universally supported in computing devices for literally decades at this point, as has USB HID Class which supports media controls.
I have no idea whether Apple allows it to work on iOS devices, but a car head unit could easily expose a USB audio class device and it'd "just work" with Android, Windows, MacOS, etc. devices. Add a USB HID "keyboard" that can send media/telephone inputs and you're good to go without any new tech required to be invented. Works with anything that doesn't go out of the way to prevent it from working. All you'd be missing compared to Bluetooth A2DP/AVRCP would be communicating media info back to the head unit, which is more of an optional nicety rather than a necessity.
Plug a USB cable in to whatever computing device you want to source audio from and it would work great.
Unfortunately the majority of the non-technical community, and a surprisingly large amount of the technical community, acts like they're allergic to wires. I honestly do not understand the demand for wireless charging, wireless AA/CP, etc. when a single cable works better for both. It's not that hard to plug a phone in when you sit down in your car.
Not sure why, but cars don't generally support that. Maybe because "digital keyboard" is too generic compared to "play/pause/next/previous/volume"? Then there's also the phone call controls.
Wired CarPlay is pretty nice, though.
Wired CarPlay is pretty nice, though.
> Not sure why, but cars don't generally support that.
Yeah, I wasn't suggesting it as something that cars support right now, but it's something that 100% could be supported easily and would "just work" with basically every modern computing device.
> Maybe because "digital keyboard" is too generic compared to "play/pause/next/previous/volume"? Then there's also the phone call controls.
The HID class covers keyboards, mice, trackballs, gamepads, touch devices, spinners, media controls, telephony, etc. All the media and phone controls you could ever want have been defined for decades, so there's definitely no technical reason it wouldn't be usable.
> Wired CarPlay is pretty nice, though.
Likewise to Android Auto, I certainly wouldn't trade it for the controls and audio only system I'm describing, but those who don't want a screen or whatever else could be better supported.
Yeah, I wasn't suggesting it as something that cars support right now, but it's something that 100% could be supported easily and would "just work" with basically every modern computing device.
> Maybe because "digital keyboard" is too generic compared to "play/pause/next/previous/volume"? Then there's also the phone call controls.
The HID class covers keyboards, mice, trackballs, gamepads, touch devices, spinners, media controls, telephony, etc. All the media and phone controls you could ever want have been defined for decades, so there's definitely no technical reason it wouldn't be usable.
> Wired CarPlay is pretty nice, though.
Likewise to Android Auto, I certainly wouldn't trade it for the controls and audio only system I'm describing, but those who don't want a screen or whatever else could be better supported.
To me the screen is the least interesting part of CarPlay, I was fine with my phone screen when I was using bluetooth. It is more important to me that it's a wired digital protocol that matches the car's built-in controls.
> To me the screen is the least interesting part of CarPlay, I was fine with my phone screen when I was using bluetooth. It is more important to me that it's a wired digital protocol that matches the car's built-in controls.
For media playback I agree entirely, TBH I still browse podcasts and music on my phone even while using Android Auto because the app is unrestricted on the phone where over AA it severely limits browsing unless I'm stopped.
For me the screen integration is all about navigation. OEM navigation is almost universally terrible, the few that aren't terrible now will be in 5-10 years when the OEM has moved on to their new system and stops supporting the old, and none of them will ever support something like Waze that offers speed trap alerts.
For media playback I agree entirely, TBH I still browse podcasts and music on my phone even while using Android Auto because the app is unrestricted on the phone where over AA it severely limits browsing unless I'm stopped.
For me the screen integration is all about navigation. OEM navigation is almost universally terrible, the few that aren't terrible now will be in 5-10 years when the OEM has moved on to their new system and stops supporting the old, and none of them will ever support something like Waze that offers speed trap alerts.
Even for navigation I’m fine with the phone screen. The car’s own bigger screen is an upgrade, but less important than the steering wheel controls.
I actually like it that my phone stays in my pocket or backpack when I enter the car, and it just works; also the car keys stay in my pocket and I can just start it.
The wires do work if I need them through CarPlay, or AndroidAuto. And I do use Waze on the car’s built in display sometimes. But mostly - I just enter the car and start driving. No need to put the key in the ignition, or the headphone jack in the phone.
The wires do work if I need them through CarPlay, or AndroidAuto. And I do use Waze on the car’s built in display sometimes. But mostly - I just enter the car and start driving. No need to put the key in the ignition, or the headphone jack in the phone.
> Yes. For over 30 years, consumer electronics had a Just Works™ standard for stereo audio. No pairing issues. No charging issues. No dongles for different devices.
I don't disagree, but I've been using AirPods for 5 yars now and am yet to have any of the issues you're referring to. I just get my tangle free, small headphones out of the my pocket and they just work every time.
I don't disagree, but I've been using AirPods for 5 yars now and am yet to have any of the issues you're referring to. I just get my tangle free, small headphones out of the my pocket and they just work every time.
When you add microphone support to the 3.5mm jack, there has been 2 competing standards.. one eventually won but to this day I still stumble upon that old device or headphones that is incompatible..
https://hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/15086/how-d...
https://hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/15086/how-d...
[deleted]
Digital Cable / TV. It used to be that you could sit back with the remote and flip through the channels to find something good on. Now it takes a few seconds for the next channel to "start up" that you can't quickly scan through them. Oh, and the proliferation of "junk" channels on cable means that you still couldn't channel surf because of all the crap you have to wade through, and the half dozen channels out of several hundred that might have a show you are interested in is more likely than not to have a commercial running when you land on it.
Yes, we have more choice with more channels, and streaming, and independent media, but I'd almost rather have limited choice of higher quality than to have a choice of thousands of "meh" options.
Yes, we have more choice with more channels, and streaming, and independent media, but I'd almost rather have limited choice of higher quality than to have a choice of thousands of "meh" options.
> Digital Cable / TV
Remember when you paid a subscription NOT to watch commercials?
something, something, Pepperidge Farms meme....
Remember when you paid a subscription NOT to watch commercials?
something, something, Pepperidge Farms meme....
> "* 3.5mm headphones?*"
Sure as heck aren't those. While I still want a physical connector, jiggling the cable to get a good connection when the jack started wearing out is something that should have been put it in its grave long ago.
Sure as heck aren't those. While I still want a physical connector, jiggling the cable to get a good connection when the jack started wearing out is something that should have been put it in its grave long ago.
Still working on most of the devices I've got that were made in the 80s/90s, meanwhile I have machines with USB ports less than a decade old where how you seat the cable matters or the port just outright doesn't work anymore.
Some of that you can chalk up to survivor bias, but if this is a conversation, the main reason anybody can actually have it is that we're talking about a standard that was universal enough for long enough.
Some of that you can chalk up to survivor bias, but if this is a conversation, the main reason anybody can actually have it is that we're talking about a standard that was universal enough for long enough.
> jiggling the cable to get a good connection when the jack started wearing out
I think this is mostly due to shitty cables though. I've had multiple Sennheiser earbuds that lasted for 4,5 years on average, while only costing 20 euros at the time. Similarly, my current headphones are semi-profesional studio monitors that I've used heavily for the last 8 years, (including DJing) and they still work perfectly.
I think there's a difference between solid-core or stranded cables. I don't recall which is the more durable one, but as long as you get the right one cabled headphones can last a long time.
Also when it does break it's trivially easy to repair or replace the cable.
I think this is mostly due to shitty cables though. I've had multiple Sennheiser earbuds that lasted for 4,5 years on average, while only costing 20 euros at the time. Similarly, my current headphones are semi-profesional studio monitors that I've used heavily for the last 8 years, (including DJing) and they still work perfectly.
I think there's a difference between solid-core or stranded cables. I don't recall which is the more durable one, but as long as you get the right one cabled headphones can last a long time.
Also when it does break it's trivially easy to repair or replace the cable.
I've had female connectors go bad, but to your point, I place the blame on the connector, not the standard itself.
Nah, wired ear buds are quite popular again. They're just so easy to use, cheap, and not have to fiddle with remembering to charge them.
I also don’t understand the love for analog, with all the crackling from interference or poor connection.
As much as I wouldn't be without my bluetooth headphones (usually bone conduction for a little extra safety/comfort/convenience) and don't use a 3.5mm jack on anything mobile myself, I can definitely agree it has advantages that are attractive enough that some really want it over what I prefer:
♯ No extra device to remember to charge (unless, perhaps, you have big noise-cancelling cans).
♯ No running out at an inconvenient/irritating time if you don't charge them (or are just out for a long time).
♯ Standard fitting so anything can plug in, makes carrying a spare set (or buying one in an “emergency”) inexpensive.
♯ Easily plug in a double+ adaptor too (not seen it for a while that I remember, but there was a spate of people on public transport listening to the same music that way). Try that with BT.
♯ No pairing issues (tell me you've never had them, even with supposedly good quality kit, and I'll call you a lier!).
♯ Easily switch between devices (my headset doesn't always want to connect when I switch from work to personal phone, so I have to go through the BT-on-and-off-again-at-both-ends dance. At least these days decent devices (and most cheap ones) remember multiple pairings, it used to be even worse.
♯ The crackling from a poor connection was rare with a good jack+socket in my experience, and BT is not immune to interference in busy environments. I've also experienced BT dropping out temporarily if devices get too close (i.e. I sit and bend to adjust a shoelace while my phone is on a trouser pocket).
And of course there is little reason not to have a standard jack as a fallback option, even if you do usually use wireless playback.
♯ No extra device to remember to charge (unless, perhaps, you have big noise-cancelling cans).
♯ No running out at an inconvenient/irritating time if you don't charge them (or are just out for a long time).
♯ Standard fitting so anything can plug in, makes carrying a spare set (or buying one in an “emergency”) inexpensive.
♯ Easily plug in a double+ adaptor too (not seen it for a while that I remember, but there was a spate of people on public transport listening to the same music that way). Try that with BT.
♯ No pairing issues (tell me you've never had them, even with supposedly good quality kit, and I'll call you a lier!).
♯ Easily switch between devices (my headset doesn't always want to connect when I switch from work to personal phone, so I have to go through the BT-on-and-off-again-at-both-ends dance. At least these days decent devices (and most cheap ones) remember multiple pairings, it used to be even worse.
♯ The crackling from a poor connection was rare with a good jack+socket in my experience, and BT is not immune to interference in busy environments. I've also experienced BT dropping out temporarily if devices get too close (i.e. I sit and bend to adjust a shoelace while my phone is on a trouser pocket).
And of course there is little reason not to have a standard jack as a fallback option, even if you do usually use wireless playback.
Most of that would also apply to wired digital headphones. It's the analog bit I don't get. Why would I want to give up data integrity until right up to the speaker?
Ah, you were segueing further from the 3.5mm jack than I thought.
If there was a wired digital standard as ubiquitous or at least as nearly as, perhaps people would be wanting that instead.
The 3.5mm jack debate on phones is not about digital/analogue, it is about what people know, understand, _already have_ or can easily afford/access. They don't specifically want analogue, like people buying vinyl, they want the port that common head gear plugs into, for the reasons I and others have mentioned, and that port being analogue is just a coincidence of its history.
If there was a wired digital standard as ubiquitous or at least as nearly as, perhaps people would be wanting that instead.
The 3.5mm jack debate on phones is not about digital/analogue, it is about what people know, understand, _already have_ or can easily afford/access. They don't specifically want analogue, like people buying vinyl, they want the port that common head gear plugs into, for the reasons I and others have mentioned, and that port being analogue is just a coincidence of its history.
To me, it's more about the device being self-sufficient, meaning it works without me having to repeatedly put effort into it. Wired headphones work just as they are, regardless of time that has passed, I know that as long as they're not broken, I can always take them out of my bag and they'll work.
With wireless headphones, it's always a question, do I have enough battery for this trip, what to do if I run out of the battery, the answer is usually just taking additional wired earphones with me, just as a backup.
The same reason is why I use wired mouse and wired keyboard, I don't want to have to think about the battery nor knowing that there will come a time when I'll have to change the battery or charge the keyboard.
As others have mentioned, there are benefits to wireless devices, but everything has a Yin and a Yang, you get wireless but you trade something else in exchange.
With wireless headphones, it's always a question, do I have enough battery for this trip, what to do if I run out of the battery, the answer is usually just taking additional wired earphones with me, just as a backup.
The same reason is why I use wired mouse and wired keyboard, I don't want to have to think about the battery nor knowing that there will come a time when I'll have to change the battery or charge the keyboard.
As others have mentioned, there are benefits to wireless devices, but everything has a Yin and a Yang, you get wireless but you trade something else in exchange.
Wires can make sense, but why not wired digital? No chance of data loss and the DAC is guaranteed to be matched to the speakers and is permanently and reliably connected to them.
I don't understand the 'love' for digital. Why would you want to replace your headphones with wireless ones that are more expensive, can run out of battery, can't plug into your amplifier, and are probably impossible to repair.
Yeah all those high end headphones with famously crackling connections.
Just give the leads a quick lick.
this comment deserves a [Ask HN] post. There is a huge untapped market for tactile, responsive, simplified & elegant products / tools / appliances / vehicles. We just need to articulate & define the market segment well. “Responsive Utility” or “Full Control Appliances” . Unfortunately the positive qualities of “simple, long lasting, “ and to a lesser degree “intuitive” are presently lost to many/ most consumers.
My dream would be resurrecting 1990s mazda with 3 models: the hatchback, 90s-size pickup truck , and the miata. All tactile control interior. Modern drivetrain efficiency ( direct injection, variable timing) . Primitive ICs (just air/ fuel mix, ABS, and minimal ODB-II features) .
There is a huge market of guys who just want usable, long-lasting, responsive & intuitive tools
My dream would be resurrecting 1990s mazda with 3 models: the hatchback, 90s-size pickup truck , and the miata. All tactile control interior. Modern drivetrain efficiency ( direct injection, variable timing) . Primitive ICs (just air/ fuel mix, ABS, and minimal ODB-II features) .
There is a huge market of guys who just want usable, long-lasting, responsive & intuitive tools
Pebble had a small but vocal audience. Their audience is price conscious, picky about features being exactly what they want, and relatively hard to please (despite the simplicity of their expectations).
It’s not a good recipe for building a company around. Probably best for someone doing a hobby-scale or deliberately small business, but establishing manufacturing and logistics for a hardware project is notoriously expensive.
Meanwhile, engineer compensation expectations have gone up a lot since the Pebble days. Just think about how many Pebble watches you’d have to sell to be able to support even one engineer salary. Multiple that across a team big enough to do everything needed to ship a Pebble watch that satisfies their audience and it’s not hard to see why it’s not happening.
It’s not a good recipe for building a company around. Probably best for someone doing a hobby-scale or deliberately small business, but establishing manufacturing and logistics for a hardware project is notoriously expensive.
Meanwhile, engineer compensation expectations have gone up a lot since the Pebble days. Just think about how many Pebble watches you’d have to sell to be able to support even one engineer salary. Multiple that across a team big enough to do everything needed to ship a Pebble watch that satisfies their audience and it’s not hard to see why it’s not happening.
> Meanwhile, engineer compensation expectations have gone up a lot since the Pebble days.
Rents have gone up since pebble days. Not just engineers, everyone needs to be paid more today.
The housing crisis is eating civilisation
Rents have gone up since pebble days. Not just engineers, everyone needs to be paid more today.
The housing crisis is eating civilisation
"small but vocal audience" is a rather misleading statement when you consider it refers to a company within its first year of operations.
As far as I remember there were as many pebbles as applewatches around that time, even though apple was an established company with significant clout.
Try Withings
It lasts a week on battery, shows time mechanicaly, records hearbeat and usual accelerometer/sleep/wtv.
Not as advanced as Garmin/others, but its neater and simpler.
The timepiece functionality lasts a month without charging. Here being a watch comes first, bells and whistles are secondary
It lasts a week on battery, shows time mechanicaly, records hearbeat and usual accelerometer/sleep/wtv.
Not as advanced as Garmin/others, but its neater and simpler.
The timepiece functionality lasts a month without charging. Here being a watch comes first, bells and whistles are secondary
I personally really like my Xiaomi Mi Band. It's much cheaper than many alternatives (Apple Watch, Wear OS devices) at <$50USD for the most current model. I get notifications pushed from my phone, step tracking, heart rate monitoring, sleep detection, among other things. Battery life is multiple weeks and it's waterproof (not sure to what pressure).
It's not as customizable as I'd like, but Notify for Mi Band[0] helps a lot. For example, I'm able to connect my watch to Home Assistant so I can use watch controls for my smart home devices.
[0] https://mibandnotify.com/
It's not as customizable as I'd like, but Notify for Mi Band[0] helps a lot. For example, I'm able to connect my watch to Home Assistant so I can use watch controls for my smart home devices.
[0] https://mibandnotify.com/
This, low effort Chinese smart band/watchess with 2-3 week battery life that does 80% works well for my use case. Upgraded to a huawei GT because it has 1 physical short cut button I use to pull up media controls. IMO that's really what's missing, a simple band with 4-6 programmable buttons.
Agreed. Thats really what I want. Something with hood battery life and some buttons that I can program via Tasker. That said, I think the market for such a device is fairly small. Most users will want something that works well out of the box.
Most importantly: Buttons.
I'm still wearing mine.
I'm still wearing mine.
This. I got a PineTime and after using it a while I realized it will never be as good as the Pebble because they didn't put enough buttons on the thing. Touchscreens suck for this kind of device. The software is still catching up as well, but at least that might get good enough someday. I'd like to see something with as many buttons as a Pebble get Infinitime support.
Yup, that's my main PineTime complaint besides the display. I wish it had a more sensible set of features, but I know it's just rebranded chinese crapware. That people keep DIYing not-so-bad watches makes me think thay getting one into mass production may not even be all that hard. A few of the Rebble people seem to be interested in it too.
I live in a country where it's sub-zero almost 4 months in the year. being able to control the watch with physical buttons without taking of my gloves is underrated.
I enjoy my BangleJS2, but the tactile display feels like a downgrade to my Pebble Time Steel 4 buttons.
I enjoy my BangleJS2, but the tactile display feels like a downgrade to my Pebble Time Steel 4 buttons.
I believe Garmin ticks all the boxes, depending on your definitions of "vibrant" and "robust" at the end there.
I had a Pebble, which I really enjoyed, but my Garmin 945 is much better at everything I actually wanted the Pebble to do (and much more).
I honestly don't actually care about third party apps, because the device does everything I want it to without them.
I had a Pebble, which I really enjoyed, but my Garmin 945 is much better at everything I actually wanted the Pebble to do (and much more).
I honestly don't actually care about third party apps, because the device does everything I want it to without them.
Yeah, it's a pretty clear market failure in my book. I still find the whole saga pretty mystifying.
Would you buy an e-ink smartband if it came out?
I'm surprised they didn't offer some subscription-based extra features to have a steady flow of revenue instead of only depending on hardware sale.
I had two Pebble 2s. They were both great watches but both lost their silicone button covers to wear. Can you even buy replacements for that anymore?
> "disappeared"
you mean bought and killed
you mean bought and killed
It was already dead when it was bought. The founder wrote a postmortem: https://medium.com/@ericmigi/why-pebble-failed-d7be937c6232
well, there's BangleJS, but no e-ink display
I have one of these, alongside a couple of PineTimes, some ESP32-vending machine clone 'smart watches', and even an Oscilloscope Watch, which uses the same CPU.
Alas Watchy looks great on screen and in pictures, but on the wrist it is very bulky and uncomfortable. I would not rate the case design very high.
I much prefer my PineTime Watch instead, its just a nicer form-factor. And it has an app store with tons of interesting stuff.
One thing I wish these open source watches would do: agree on an API/ABI that would allow us to run apps from PineTime on Bangle, and vice versa.
Someone should put Lua on all these machines and let us side-load bytecode, darn ..
EDIT: s/PrimeTime/PineTime/g
Alas Watchy looks great on screen and in pictures, but on the wrist it is very bulky and uncomfortable. I would not rate the case design very high.
I much prefer my PineTime Watch instead, its just a nicer form-factor. And it has an app store with tons of interesting stuff.
One thing I wish these open source watches would do: agree on an API/ABI that would allow us to run apps from PineTime on Bangle, and vice versa.
Someone should put Lua on all these machines and let us side-load bytecode, darn ..
EDIT: s/PrimeTime/PineTime/g
> One thing I wish these open source watches would do: agree on an API/ABI that would allow us to run apps from PineTime on Bangle, and vice versa.
I've looked far and wide for a standard embedded OS that can just load binaries and didn't find much. IIRC Zephyr has a seemingly barely-supported feature for it and so does NuttX.
I've looked far and wide for a standard embedded OS that can just load binaries and didn't find much. IIRC Zephyr has a seemingly barely-supported feature for it and so does NuttX.
Yeah, Zephyr seems closest to giving us this ideal, but I still honestly believe that Lua is the solution - this way we don't need loading/runtime linking, etc.
Of course, this requires planning.
Of course, this requires planning.
I think they are many ways. Old PCs, which current microcontrollers are approaching the power of, didn't depend on Lua to load arbitrary binaries.
Many current Microcontrollers even have MMUs.
Many current Microcontrollers even have MMUs.
.. but not many embedded developers have the chops to do dynamic linking and loading, on the other hand ..
Same here - loved Watchy, built my own watchface. But it is not waterproof and kill a couple of Watchy(s) in the sea/shower. PineTime is not as good and harder to hack and contribute back to the firmware. But Pinetime is waterproof.
> PrimeTime Watch
Do you mean PineTime, or is there a "PrimeTime" smartwatch that I don't know about?
Do you mean PineTime, or is there a "PrimeTime" smartwatch that I don't know about?
Sorry, thats a typo - yes I meant the PineTime Watch. I'll edit ..
Why does almost nobody use the Sharp Memory LCDs the Pebble Time used? They're close to perfect. The only other product with them I can think of is the Amazfit Bip/Banglejs.
Sharp even has some nice round color memory LCDs at this point, that still stay under 1 mA even at 20 fps, and are way under that for once-per-second updates. Besides the usual memory LCDs downside (25:1 contrast is truly bad, need a side-light for many use cases just like old-school digital watches did), I suspect the color reproduction is muddy as best. I'd still love one for a few use cases.
Eh, as a hobby and something to mess around with I can see the novelty of this. However, the main reason I use a smartwatch is for the gps (typically I have a Garmin). I track my mountain bike rides, hikes, runs etc.
Personally, I would just use an analog watch over something like this. It seems to not be "smart" enough to actual be all that useful.
Personally, I would just use an analog watch over something like this. It seems to not be "smart" enough to actual be all that useful.
You want OpenSmartwatch-gps:
https://open-smartwatch.github.io/watches/gps-edition/
https://github.com/Open-Smartwatch/open-smartwatch-gps
Admittedly somewhat abandonware due to difficulties in antenna design... A year ago, I enthusiastically jumped on the project and I've got a half dozen ESP32-pico-D4 and Quectel L96 GPS modules on my desk, a breakout board for one GPS module that only works with a powered antenna that's twice the size of my Garmin Fenix 6 Pro, and a half-finished Kicad project to turn it into a watch, a very dusty RF design textbook that I've not read since 2011, and not enough time or energy to see it through.
https://open-smartwatch.github.io/watches/gps-edition/
https://github.com/Open-Smartwatch/open-smartwatch-gps
Admittedly somewhat abandonware due to difficulties in antenna design... A year ago, I enthusiastically jumped on the project and I've got a half dozen ESP32-pico-D4 and Quectel L96 GPS modules on my desk, a breakout board for one GPS module that only works with a powered antenna that's twice the size of my Garmin Fenix 6 Pro, and a half-finished Kicad project to turn it into a watch, a very dusty RF design textbook that I've not read since 2011, and not enough time or energy to see it through.
Yeah, I don't think this product (SQFMI Watchy - https://thepihut.com/products/sqfmi-watchy) is sold as a thing for consumers to just buy and passively use without being curious about the platform itself and wanting something to hack on.
And the seeing what the sources (linuxgizmos.com and thepihut.com) are, kind of makes that point clear too, together with the fact that it comes in pieces you have to assemble yourself.
A bit like commenting on a story about a new gaming laptops when all you use the Office suite and you don't see the value in the laptop presented.
And the seeing what the sources (linuxgizmos.com and thepihut.com) are, kind of makes that point clear too, together with the fact that it comes in pieces you have to assemble yourself.
A bit like commenting on a story about a new gaming laptops when all you use the Office suite and you don't see the value in the laptop presented.
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I have one of those. It takes a lot of work writing embedded C code to make it do what you want. In my case it was displaying a calendar and the moonphase. The default software is very bare bones. Battery life is 1.5 weeks for me when using ntp sync once a Day and a display update every minute without any further wireless communication.
I find the PineTime more attractive because it has an aditional heart rate sensor and a color display with similiar battery life.
I find the PineTime more attractive because it has an aditional heart rate sensor and a color display with similiar battery life.
The schematic shows an RTC in there, does it really need to have its timekeeping syncronized every day next to startup?! Or it's just something you do to cover for eventualities?
Maybe I'm doing something wrong but the RTC lags about a minute every three days. At least for my device a regular ntp sync is therefore absolutely required.
Some v1 units got defective RTCs so one would have to frequently sync time. My version had around 2 weeks of battery life (no ntp/etc). I can see getting way beyond that with accel and on-demand refresh instead of 1min intervals.
Wireless connectivity is great but the esp32 has terrible power consumption due to the wifi.
A lot of times you can get by with Bluetooth. Of course, one then needs an app and a phone or other host device but the power consumption on Nordic Bluetooth chips is just miniscule.
A lot of times you can get by with Bluetooth. Of course, one then needs an app and a phone or other host device but the power consumption on Nordic Bluetooth chips is just miniscule.
I guess you could toggle wifi on and off to conserve power. The S3 uses about 20mA without wifi, which isn’t too bad. It’s on par with the Pi Pico and Arduino Nano Connect as I recall. They all guzzle power when wifi is enabled, otherwise idle fairly low and peak around 80-120mA depending on processor power.
i just finished an esp32 design with incredibly aggressive power savings as the primary goal
it saves persistent variables to non-volatile storage and deep-sleeps at 15-20uA according to my power profiler 2, waking up on a timer
when it wakes up, connects, checks battery, and updates display, it can peak 350mA, but mostly stays around 100-150mA while it works
it saves persistent variables to non-volatile storage and deep-sleeps at 15-20uA according to my power profiler 2, waking up on a timer
when it wakes up, connects, checks battery, and updates display, it can peak 350mA, but mostly stays around 100-150mA while it works
Awesome, I've been curious about deep sleeping. How long does it take to come back online?
Correlating to current measurements, my first Serial log shows up almost as soon as I can see the current spiking from waking up (within a half-second)
I haven't timed it super precisely (my off-state is 30 min and my on-state is 4-5 seconds), but definitely going to check this for thoroughly in my next project, which will wake from deep sleep on button press; curious if there's some delay as everything powers on.
I haven't timed it super precisely (my off-state is 30 min and my on-state is 4-5 seconds), but definitely going to check this for thoroughly in my next project, which will wake from deep sleep on button press; curious if there's some delay as everything powers on.
The official Watchy firmware is designed to put the esp32 into deep sleep and only wake to update the display, which being e-ink doesn't need any further power to hold its position until the next update. In deep sleep no radios are on and the esp32 uses very small amounts of power. In my experience, I usually have to plug it into charge every ~10 days.
As far as bluetooth on Watchy goes, it's more useful for OTA updates than anything else. When in this mode, Watchy's firmware can be sent as a .bin over bluetooth. This takes only a few minutes and then the ble radio is turned off. No real hit the battery.
The other [quicker] way to flash the firmware is via usb, during which time the battery is charging.
What I like about Watchy is that it requires no phone or apps, is running firmware I wrote and flashed, and occasionally calls my server for data if I need it.
As far as bluetooth on Watchy goes, it's more useful for OTA updates than anything else. When in this mode, Watchy's firmware can be sent as a .bin over bluetooth. This takes only a few minutes and then the ble radio is turned off. No real hit the battery.
The other [quicker] way to flash the firmware is via usb, during which time the battery is charging.
What I like about Watchy is that it requires no phone or apps, is running firmware I wrote and flashed, and occasionally calls my server for data if I need it.
It is a cute watch, but Micro USB is inexcusable in 2023. Especially at that price point: £57 is $70 or €64.
Fully agree. An USB-C connector is thinner and even at low volume I can buy them for $0.04 each. And if you buy a full 1600 piece reel its $0.02 each. Plus you NEED USB-C if you want support for USB-PD (power delivery) or USB-BC (battery charging) because both standards rely on the CC lines that A- or B-type connectors lack.
Micro USB is fine. Most people have a ton of them around, and they are cheaper than USBC. You enjoy paying a premium to not have to look at which direction you're plugging it in?
> You enjoy paying a premium to not have to look at which direction you're plugging it in?
For that alone it is worth every single one of the 7c extra it costs.
For that alone it is worth every single one of the 7c extra it costs.
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Cables with reversible Micro USB plugs exist. Those are the only ones I use.
Abso-effin-lutely!
I discovered much to my chagrin that the ESP32 Bluetooth module consumes a lot of power, affecting my quirky keyboard project. Is there a better method for syncing to a PC or phone?
If it's the actual radio: No. But if you want to optimise the time spent active (where most of the gains are), ESP-Now and BLE would be good options (though I suppose you're already using that?). Aside from that, NRF and Silabs chips have very low power radios with advanced features (advertising while the rest of the chip is sleeping).
I'm pleasantly surprised the case itself manages to be ~ 15mm thick, which isn't exactly thin, but not bad. And it looks like there's opportunity to shave that down with different connectors, sinking the battery into the pcb, etc, as they iterate.
About 2 years ago, me and some friends produced a small batch of similar watches, but we used a different LiPo connector and USB-C to make it thinner and then we could get the cases down to 11mm thickness, which is comparable to the thinnest Apple Watch. So in general, ESP32 and e-ink is a pretty great basis to start from. Since this appears to be open source, you could, in theory, apply these modifications to their design and then produce your own batch of thin e-ink watches... If you do, please send them a pull request ;)
Would be nice if it had some spare IO pins broken out so you could add your own sensors etc.
I've got one of those. Hated the in-box case though so printed one of these: https://github.com/sqfmi/watchy-cases/tree/main/Flipped%20Ch...
Also didn't like the watch face so made my own from the default one, changed layout and font and stuff.
Oh and replaced the strap with a velcro strap.
Also didn't like the watch face so made my own from the default one, changed layout and font and stuff.
Oh and replaced the strap with a velcro strap.
I'd love a watch like this, but none of them seem to work with iOS. I don't know if sideloading iOS apps would help with that. Apple seems to keep the messaging and notification API's pretty locked down.
The list of hobbies, ideas, and stuff in my house that will never work with Apple is endless. Once you choose Apple, you stop getting more choices.
> I don't know if sideloading iOS apps would help with that.
Likely. You currently need to do just that to install the Pebble app and it's a huge pain.
Likely. You currently need to do just that to install the Pebble app and it's a huge pain.
What's the battery life like?
I like the hackability but ESP32 seems like a terrible choice in terms of sleep current usage.
I like the hackability but ESP32 seems like a terrible choice in terms of sleep current usage.
I wonder what the battery life would be on this. But I am too lazy to do the math.
Covered on the Wiki, 5-7 days normally, 2-3 days with WiFi: https://watchy.sqfmi.com/docs/battery-life
I get 24 hours tops without wifi. Huh?? I thought it was normal, will contact support.
Love the ESP32 but for me it would be too power hungry for the usecase.
"With only time keeping, Watchy should have a battery life of 5-7 days, while with fetching data over WiFi, it should last between 2-3 days."
No thanks, that would be too vexing. Though I do see the attractive novelty of this device.
No thanks, that would be too vexing. Though I do see the attractive novelty of this device.
thats very cool! If I had found this about 2 months back, I would have bought this over my Fitbit Sense 2!